To be fair, for a Malian with zero eco upgrades and no cattle to balance out their income, that was way too close. Imagine that with just a corner filled with cows
We can also look at it this way: Even Malians with perfect trade (almost) entire game couldn't win against English. This trade is so hard to get and even with it you are not that goood. Obviously he could have get his upgrades etc. but even without them he had better economy, but with that units he couldn't resist English's comp.
I have played a lot of 3v3 and 4v4 with Malians - and it’s basically a tower defense game late game (for the enemies) - cost/loss doesn’t matter much (besides a bit for wood) - if I can push the opponents further back with a constant horde - it’s a win
@@tarksoyturk2893 Perfect trade?! Dude got raided non-stop, had a non-ideal trading spot location reducing how much they got per trip *and* increasing how exposed their trade routes were, *AND* didnt get any other eco to balance out and help spend the ludicrous amounts of gold they were getting. This was really far from optimal, cmon. Plus, not winning against the *English* of all civs, on a post-imperial situation, isnt really that surprising on *any* civ
@@drowsyCoffee Did you ever see any better trade starting from feudel age in an professional level game? You didn't because it is so hard to protect. Obviously this isn't optimal but in reality this is as perfect as it gets. Winning against English late game is hard I get that but it is because you ran out of resources faster, if you have decent trade it is quite possible imo. I play Malians and I enjoy playing them but I don't think they are as powerfull as any other civ. I hope people discover new playstyles and build orders soon.
@@tarksoyturk2893 trade don't make everything ,you can't buy food forever, so you better work on those cows and farm to balance it out and buy those good damm farm eco upgrade
I personally like the way he kept his trade safe early on. I could see how, if you’re building an Econ and micro around it, you could creep markets further out as the game progresses. It seems like a viable strat, especially with the Toll outposts.
I think stone walls to secure the trade and mussafadi gunners were missing in this matchup. I wonder why he didn't just mass up those gunners to kill pretty much everything/ mangonels to kill longbows that could kill the gunners/culverins to kill the the trebs and just do a single file push with maybe a couple of bombards to blow through zerton's stone walls. I understand it was a stressful fast-paced game but that would have been the actual unbeatable combo not the mussafadi warrior+sofa which works quite well in midgame briefly but then cools down. Also a little more reliance on food and Crackedy could have mixed in a ton of warrior scouts to act as a meat shield or take down enemy siege or siege down towers/keeps on the side. I'd like to see Beasty or someone a lot more methodical try out this Malian trade strategy and go for this killer endgame combo
Yeah, even without the Grand Fulani Corral, he could have easily invested in some ranches and gotten a good amount of pop-free food to round out his economy. He was stacking way too much gold and the Farimba Garrison couldn't spend that gold on units fast enough. He also could have dumped gold into the Griot Bara buffs, had he built that monument instead.
Crackedy is a little frustrating to watch. He didn’t go for archers w/ poison arrows which would’ve mowed down those spears. Didn’t even seem to use his markets so sell his gold for food/wood. No mangonels for the longbow blobs. No stone walls to stop the raiding. Uhh
Interesting game. Trade is powerful, and Crackedy did a good job of balancing trader safety with trader value (in my opinion). He could have done a better job of spending his gold though. Eco techs are mostly gold, so he should have gotten at least some of those. Cows cost gold and would have helped with his relatively low food income. More workers also would have helped with his low wood income (especially if he got eco techs). Of course, it's easier to say what the right move is when you're an outside observer instead of a player who is in their 12th game for the day. There is definitely some exhaustion in these games. I do think that this game shows that the trade late-game is strong enough to conpete with the English lategame. I think that the trade late-game is stronger (and longer-lasting), but much more fragile.
Honestly when I saw that 5k gold mid game even with bad market placement I saw the Malian potential here. With better eco upgrades some cows and going for heavier ranged combo would have changed the outcome for sure.
Drongo you fucking beaut. Keep the content coming, honestly man the game knowledge that you impart in these games is pretty unreal, I have less than 100 hours and I am already plat and I can confidently say you have a large part to play in that!
I agree on random spawns but in every map you always have three strangler tree, gold and berry nearby etc. So there are some things that never changes and I think one of those things can be market position, not exactly corner maybe but not far from it either.
This series has been brilliant!! I'm interested in the wololo but I'm not always able to catch live TV so watching this series has been great! I think zerton is probably a better player overall but still it was great. Malians haven't done so well sadly! Ottomans are looking great though.
Did the Crack even get a Uni? I mean if he can't even get Horticulture with 13k gold in the bank I'm not sure. He could have won with some cows and eco upgrades. A bit of a throw
Not sure whats going to happen with the trade but Drongo is right. Put 1 marked down to furthest corner and spam 4-5 outposts between your own base and neutral market and use the toll as trading option and forget defending the traders. If they die mid way then they die.
The problem is they only get taxed on the way back from the neutral market, so if the neutral markets are in your and your enemy's bases, the strat only works if you go and build a market far away and trade with the neutral market in your own base. But then that market is super easy to snipe and you have to run out more villagers to build new ones. And you have to send your army to defend the villager because your enemy will now know what your trick is.
@@diggoran Which is true, but you can stone wall the furthest market making it a lot harder to snipe and in case they try it buys enough time for your to move army there. The toll is ridiculously strong especially in TG's. Like in TGs you can place the market furthest corner and just put couple of layers stonewalls and just live with toll tax alone.
@@crazygreip true, it’s a bit of an investment but you can certainly protect the far market. It’s not quite the carefree strategy of sending unprotected traders with minimal effort that we started the conversation with though :P
@@diggoran I usually end up just using palisade but sometimes when I feel like there is huge threat coming then I use stonewalls its not that big of deal also depending on the map. On some maps its much easier
@@diggoran Traders cost 120 resources. Landmark gives you 10% food and gold, outposts 10% gold and 5% food. If you do 100g trade it will result 80 resources. Doesn't sound good right? If its 150G then you break even 120 resources. So essentially if you can cover 5 outposts worth of distance you will never lose resources. Top of that opponent HAS to stop the trade. So as long as the distant market is safely kept under your control you can freely spam traders even if they die. ITs ridiculously powerful landmark especially in TG's. For example I have been playing 4v4 with malians. Usually one trip gives 400g so getting 75% from tolls is insane. 300 resources just like 25% of map coverage as long as the neutral / far market is under your control you can just spam traders and let them die even if they manage to pass only 2 tolls which is already profit with landmark.
What is the name of my country doing in this video game ???😳😳🤷🏾♀️🤷🏾♀️🤷🏾♀️🤷🏾♀️. We are going to take actions against these people for degrading us like that.
why was the malian player making farms..he should have filled his base with cows. plus sofa is just a glorified horseman.. no lancer damage of knight. should have gone with musafadi gunners, mangonels etc
Please no more Mali... is OP. They seem really bad from castle age onwards. It is especially really hard to counter armored units. What do you have against mass mia mixed with some spears? Musofadi warrior? (Landsknecht light, hard to contain sufficient mass, pop cap limits their impact.) Musofadi gunner?... Only in theory. They lack strong units in general. It is basically trash and better trash. Hopefully I am wrong.
To be fair, for a Malian with zero eco upgrades and no cattle to balance out their income, that was way too close. Imagine that with just a corner filled with cows
We can also look at it this way: Even Malians with perfect trade (almost) entire game couldn't win against English. This trade is so hard to get and even with it you are not that goood. Obviously he could have get his upgrades etc. but even without them he had better economy, but with that units he couldn't resist English's comp.
I have played a lot of 3v3 and 4v4 with Malians - and it’s basically a tower defense game late game (for the enemies) - cost/loss doesn’t matter much (besides a bit for wood) - if I can push the opponents further back with a constant horde - it’s a win
@@tarksoyturk2893 Perfect trade?! Dude got raided non-stop, had a non-ideal trading spot location reducing how much they got per trip *and* increasing how exposed their trade routes were, *AND* didnt get any other eco to balance out and help spend the ludicrous amounts of gold they were getting. This was really far from optimal, cmon. Plus, not winning against the *English* of all civs, on a post-imperial situation, isnt really that surprising on *any* civ
@@drowsyCoffee Did you ever see any better trade starting from feudel age in an professional level game? You didn't because it is so hard to protect. Obviously this isn't optimal but in reality this is as perfect as it gets. Winning against English late game is hard I get that but it is because you ran out of resources faster, if you have decent trade it is quite possible imo. I play Malians and I enjoy playing them but I don't think they are as powerfull as any other civ. I hope people discover new playstyles and build orders soon.
@@tarksoyturk2893 trade don't make everything ,you can't buy food forever, so you better work on those cows and farm to balance it out and buy those good damm farm eco upgrade
The attacking walls joke like an easy AI. Drongo thats got to be one of your best. I'm laughing like a hyena on heat!
I personally like the way he kept his trade safe early on. I could see how, if you’re building an Econ and micro around it, you could creep markets further out as the game progresses. It seems like a viable strat, especially with the Toll outposts.
I think stone walls to secure the trade and mussafadi gunners were missing in this matchup. I wonder why he didn't just mass up those gunners to kill pretty much everything/ mangonels to kill longbows that could kill the gunners/culverins to kill the the trebs and just do a single file push with maybe a couple of bombards to blow through zerton's stone walls. I understand it was a stressful fast-paced game but that would have been the actual unbeatable combo not the mussafadi warrior+sofa which works quite well in midgame briefly but then cools down. Also a little more reliance on food and Crackedy could have mixed in a ton of warrior scouts to act as a meat shield or take down enemy siege or siege down towers/keeps on the side. I'd like to see Beasty or someone a lot more methodical try out this Malian trade strategy and go for this killer endgame combo
I like how your last 2 videos have been like "are malians op?" and proceed with a game of them getting stomped out lol, quality mate
Crackity needed some damn cows at 20 mins. 😂 he stacked up to 4k gold by 26 mins.
Yeah, even without the Grand Fulani Corral, he could have easily invested in some ranches and gotten a good amount of pop-free food to round out his economy. He was stacking way too much gold and the Farimba Garrison couldn't spend that gold on units fast enough. He also could have dumped gold into the Griot Bara buffs, had he built that monument instead.
Crackedy is a little frustrating to watch. He didn’t go for archers w/ poison arrows which would’ve mowed down those spears. Didn’t even seem to use his markets so sell his gold for food/wood. No mangonels for the longbow blobs. No stone walls to stop the raiding. Uhh
Man, that call back to body type 4 in SWTOR brought me back. A surprise, but a welcome one. Thank you Aussie!
Interesting game. Trade is powerful, and Crackedy did a good job of balancing trader safety with trader value (in my opinion). He could have done a better job of spending his gold though. Eco techs are mostly gold, so he should have gotten at least some of those. Cows cost gold and would have helped with his relatively low food income. More workers also would have helped with his low wood income (especially if he got eco techs).
Of course, it's easier to say what the right move is when you're an outside observer instead of a player who is in their 12th game for the day. There is definitely some exhaustion in these games.
I do think that this game shows that the trade late-game is strong enough to conpete with the English lategame. I think that the trade late-game is stronger (and longer-lasting), but much more fragile.
Honestly when I saw that 5k gold mid game even with bad market placement I saw the Malian potential here. With better eco upgrades some cows and going for heavier ranged combo would have changed the outcome for sure.
26:00 I guess you could say the men at arms do not sit well with the sofas.
Drongo you fucking beaut. Keep the content coming, honestly man the game knowledge that you impart in these games is pretty unreal, I have less than 100 hours and I am already plat and I can confidently say you have a large part to play in that!
I like the random spawns. I LOVE that there is an element of randomness on familiar maps. Adaptability is a skill as well. Love it.
I agree on random spawns but in every map you always have three strangler tree, gold and berry nearby etc. So there are some things that never changes and I think one of those things can be market position, not exactly corner maybe but not far from it either.
i was waiting so long for the man at arms transition i was really not sure about the first few knights.
Simple, make traders fast when theyre unladen
This series has been brilliant!! I'm interested in the wololo but I'm not always able to catch live TV so watching this series has been great!
I think zerton is probably a better player overall but still it was great. Malians haven't done so well sadly! Ottomans are looking great though.
Amazing casting this game Drongo! Especially the English breakfast bit xD
That is good malian. If only ge was able to translate his gold better
with all that gold just get the eco upgrades
Did the Crack even get a Uni? I mean if he can't even get Horticulture with 13k gold in the bank I'm not sure. He could have won with some cows and eco upgrades. A bit of a throw
I love the old republic! was my first real mmo.
if crackety also made some cows i think it couldve been the deciding resource difference
Am i tripping or has the meta changed and game starts are slower? I remember fast castle was key and now staying in feudal for a while is vogue
Not sure whats going to happen with the trade but Drongo is right. Put 1 marked down to furthest corner and spam 4-5 outposts between your own base and neutral market and use the toll as trading option and forget defending the traders. If they die mid way then they die.
The problem is they only get taxed on the way back from the neutral market, so if the neutral markets are in your and your enemy's bases, the strat only works if you go and build a market far away and trade with the neutral market in your own base. But then that market is super easy to snipe and you have to run out more villagers to build new ones. And you have to send your army to defend the villager because your enemy will now know what your trick is.
@@diggoran Which is true, but you can stone wall the furthest market making it a lot harder to snipe and in case they try it buys enough time for your to move army there. The toll is ridiculously strong especially in TG's. Like in TGs you can place the market furthest corner and just put couple of layers stonewalls and just live with toll tax alone.
@@crazygreip true, it’s a bit of an investment but you can certainly protect the far market. It’s not quite the carefree strategy of sending unprotected traders with minimal effort that we started the conversation with though :P
@@diggoran I usually end up just using palisade but sometimes when I feel like there is huge threat coming then I use stonewalls its not that big of deal also depending on the map. On some maps its much easier
@@diggoran Traders cost 120 resources. Landmark gives you 10% food and gold, outposts 10% gold and 5% food. If you do 100g trade it will result 80 resources. Doesn't sound good right? If its 150G then you break even 120 resources. So essentially if you can cover 5 outposts worth of distance you will never lose resources. Top of that opponent HAS to stop the trade. So as long as the distant market is safely kept under your control you can freely spam traders even if they die. ITs ridiculously powerful landmark especially in TG's.
For example I have been playing 4v4 with malians. Usually one trip gives 400g so getting 75% from tolls is insane. 300 resources just like 25% of map coverage as long as the neutral / far market is under your control you can just spam traders and let them die even if they manage to pass only 2 tolls which is already profit with landmark.
Abbasid traders: Am I a joke to you?
Markets should really spawn in the east and west corners consistently.
Better than a football game!
Great game. But having 300 food per minute after 20 minutes is basically just surrendering slowly.
Musofadi Gunners don't exist, huh? Did the devs erase them?
Meat Grinder...... Epic!
English breakfast!
intense game, gg
cattle could have saved that
Tbh I love watching games like these but wololo casters can sometimes be a little hard to understand. XD Your casting tho is way better 100%.
very fun game
Not having stone walls defending Malian trade is stupid
🇲🇱 vs 🏴
Trade prediction. 😂
What is the name of my country doing in this video game ???😳😳🤷🏾♀️🤷🏾♀️🤷🏾♀️🤷🏾♀️. We are going to take actions against these people for degrading us like that.
why was the malian player making farms..he should have filled his base with cows.
plus sofa is just a glorified horseman.. no lancer damage of knight. should have gone with musafadi gunners, mangonels etc
Please no more Mali... is OP. They seem really bad from castle age onwards. It is especially really hard to counter armored units. What do you have against mass mia mixed with some spears? Musofadi warrior? (Landsknecht light, hard to contain sufficient mass, pop cap limits their impact.) Musofadi gunner?... Only in theory. They lack strong units in general. It is basically trash and better trash. Hopefully I am wrong.
#87 👍
He was... "wearing" the Malians?! Wtf!
you've never heard the phrase "wearing down" or "wearing out"?
second
First
12th video of the same players Jesus Christ dude...
That the point
its a showmatch you dimdum
It’s a tournament