I have a suspicion that the swooping crane should be around the unit they are firing at and not empty, but I guess the devs realized that's not gonna work.
Nah it isn't supposed to be surroudning the unit, it's actually a formation designed to make them harder to hit by enemy missiles and skirmishers. Similar tactically to the cantabrian circle. The idea is just that keep up momentum and make yourself a hard target while maintaining enough distance. It has a lot in common with manoeuver like the parthian shot.
Bow Cavalry is a great unit but requires careful micromanagement, also in the base game they do not get whistling or fire arrows although their stats are at monk level. They are a great unit for aggressive armies since you can easily dominate any skirmish before the enemy archer die and the enemy infantry charges out when you're attacking. Which is why in my opinion Yoritomo's Yabusame is probably the best Hero unit in the game since it has a lot of utility and also 200 range with fire arrows.
Speaking of Yoritomo's Yabusame, they're also the only unit where swooping crane works on ultra and large sized units because their highest number is 40. So once the battle starts you can just use the ability and they'll take care of themselves. They can still be caught in a few cases but it still lowers the amount of attention you have to give to them. But if you're playing with normal sized units they'll never get caught when using swooping crane. No chance
I think the larger units size gets more models clumped up and stalls the formation preventing them from running away. The size of the circle needs to be bigger more spread out for larger formations. Not that this is going to be fixed now unfortunately.
It will work with a Large unit if you do not target the enemy unit by right clicking on it. Move towards the enemy. Stop your unit and activate fire at will, skirmish mode and swooping crane. When the enemy moves into range, the cavalry will begin the manoeuvre and will keep their distance. However, unless you use a mod that corrects it, you will find that cavalry gets a movement penalty as it gains fatigue, but infantry doesn't. So, eventually infantry will be able to catch your cavalry.
Thank you for this comment! I'm working on an overhaul mod that seeks to "fix" many of the things that were poorly implemented or not fully fleshed out in Shogun 2, and getting to the bottom of when Swooping Crane does/doesn't work is a hard thing. These really subtle tips like how things change when you click an attack order are incredibly difficult to just stumble onto or to find yourself, since you probably won't find it even if you're searching for it unless you already know exactly where to look. It reminds me of how Fire by Rank with matchlock is almost always worse than fire at will, unless you click an attack order BEFORE your target has entered its range of fire. I'm hoping to find a more obvious fix to Swooping Crane on ultra size than asking the player to not click an attack order, but this video and your comment is very helpful in narrowing down what sort of things to focus on tweaking.
@@QirnsChannel Will you be able to make the game utilize more cores? Like calculating path finding on the other 11 cores my computer has would really resolve lots of the performance issues. My computer is sometimes close to idling (except one core) and I'm stuck with like 60 fps even though my PC would do 200 fps easily
@@Squee7e I wish! Unfortunately, modders can't really fix that. That part is baked into the game engine and CA explicitly says that we are not allowed to modify any of that stuff, even if we were able to figure it out by reverse engineering it or something. In fact, the tools we are given are very limited in what they can do. There is a lot less you can do with modding in Shogun 2 than in many other games (like say, Skyrim, or even other modern Total War games for that matter), and some modding that seems like it would be basic has taken incredible effort and janky workarounds from the community to do. It's a genuine miracle that folks have figured out how to do even some of the "simple" things that some Shogun 2 mods can do. For example, editing the UI is technically possible, with some fan-built tools for "decompiling" some of the UI code, and fan efforts to document what the UI code does, but other than simply replacing assets few people have even attempted to mod it.
@QirnsChannel if you got around to it and remember do you know the directory? I have the pack file manager so I can mod it myself. Edit: I realize it may not be clear what I'm asking for. I'm asking for the directory of the speed penalties from fatigue.
That has to be the most idiotic battle tactic ever: "Okay, here's the plan. We'll run in circles until we're exhausted and then they'll kill us. Mount up."
It took you 9 minutes to show and explain that unit size is the relevant factor to how effective swooping crane + skirmish mode will be at maintaining correct distance to enemies. Did I miss something, or is this video just 8 minutes of filler?
And you took extra time to critique someone who's in the process of adding actual value and knowledge to the community. Did I miss something, or are you incapable of making your own video? As someone who's made discoveries in a few games now, I can say that my videos were also longer than they needed to be when I first started publishing discoveries. But there's no quicker way to discourage a budding contributor than to critique them over shit that doesn't matter. It might have taken someone hours of concerted effort to find something new about the game, and then it takes them more time to test all the edge cases, find out the limits and how to make it consistent, gather footage, edit it, and publish it. It's a worthy goal to deliver your information as efficiently as possible, but people who do the actual work of discovering or publishing new information don't owe you anything. Make and publish a shorter video if you feel that's what the community needs. Otherwise, at best you're contributing nothing and at worst you're just discouraging the people who have actually gone out and done the work to bring you this info. It's no wonder that until very recently there has been a dearth of detailed, published info about game mechanics in Shogun 2 when this is how we can expect the community to behave.
@@QirnsChannel Yes, I took the time to say that the video is too long for what it communicates, and I stand by that. I fail to see what the volume of background work has to do with anything. There's an untold amount of it with any discovery, but the audience can only judge what is being presented. Similarly, I fail to see what the low popularity of TW:S2 has to do with anything. Am I expected to praise anyone making videos on it, simply because no one else is? Don't know about you, but I'd rather receive honest criticism than empty flatter.
@@BlurbFish Today I learned that there are only two ways to respond to someone: be a dick or flatter them. The point you missed is that you are not owed anything. You just come off as entitled. Especially when your unsolicited "honest criticism" is just rude. Personally, I didn't mind the length. I want to see the methodology. But maybe the length didn't bother me as much because I care a lot more about the mechanics and the new info than I do about giving unsolicited feedback to the content creator about how they should make their videos. You are not always the target audience, my dude.
Understanding why something happens is far more important for building broader skill than just learning tricks. Skirmishing interactions are generally pretty wonky in Shogun, the information in this video loosely applies to mechanics other than just swooping crane. Similar issues happen with FotS gunners and kneel fire in skirmish mode, for example. This video led me to test if unit size was a factor, which it was. More information is better, especially when it's something this niche. Nobody looking up mechanics on a 12 year old game has anything important enough going on in life that 7 minutes is going to matter.
Peasants with boom stick in the tree line : Awww that's cute
I have a suspicion that the swooping crane should be around the unit they are firing at and not empty, but I guess the devs realized that's not gonna work.
Nah it isn't supposed to be surroudning the unit, it's actually a formation designed to make them harder to hit by enemy missiles and skirmishers. Similar tactically to the cantabrian circle. The idea is just that keep up momentum and make yourself a hard target while maintaining enough distance. It has a lot in common with manoeuver like the parthian shot.
If they would surround a unit they would get surrounded them selves
Bow Cavalry is a great unit but requires careful micromanagement, also in the base game they do not get whistling or fire arrows although their stats are at monk level. They are a great unit for aggressive armies since you can easily dominate any skirmish before the enemy archer die and the enemy infantry charges out when you're attacking. Which is why in my opinion Yoritomo's Yabusame is probably the best Hero unit in the game since it has a lot of utility and also 200 range with fire arrows.
Speaking of Yoritomo's Yabusame, they're also the only unit where swooping crane works on ultra and large sized units because their highest number is 40. So once the battle starts you can just use the ability and they'll take care of themselves. They can still be caught in a few cases but it still lowers the amount of attention you have to give to them. But if you're playing with normal sized units they'll never get caught when using swooping crane. No chance
@@derrote6508 Never knew that :D
Although that might be due to me only playing on ultra unit size
I think the larger units size gets more models clumped up and stalls the formation preventing them from running away. The size of the circle needs to be bigger more spread out for larger formations. Not that this is going to be fixed now unfortunately.
CA are more focused on removing content and breaking minor features in their older games than fixing anything
Laughs in trees
So what's the best-use-case for this formation? When surrounded?
It will work with a Large unit if you do not target the enemy unit by right clicking on it. Move towards the enemy. Stop your unit and activate fire at will, skirmish mode and swooping crane. When the enemy moves into range, the cavalry will begin the manoeuvre and will keep their distance.
However, unless you use a mod that corrects it, you will find that cavalry gets a movement penalty as it gains fatigue, but infantry doesn't. So, eventually infantry will be able to catch your cavalry.
Thank you for this comment! I'm working on an overhaul mod that seeks to "fix" many of the things that were poorly implemented or not fully fleshed out in Shogun 2, and getting to the bottom of when Swooping Crane does/doesn't work is a hard thing. These really subtle tips like how things change when you click an attack order are incredibly difficult to just stumble onto or to find yourself, since you probably won't find it even if you're searching for it unless you already know exactly where to look.
It reminds me of how Fire by Rank with matchlock is almost always worse than fire at will, unless you click an attack order BEFORE your target has entered its range of fire.
I'm hoping to find a more obvious fix to Swooping Crane on ultra size than asking the player to not click an attack order, but this video and your comment is very helpful in narrowing down what sort of things to focus on tweaking.
@@QirnsChannel Will you be able to make the game utilize more cores?
Like calculating path finding on the other 11 cores my computer has would really resolve lots of the performance issues.
My computer is sometimes close to idling (except one core) and I'm stuck with like 60 fps even though my PC would do 200 fps easily
@@Squee7e I wish! Unfortunately, modders can't really fix that. That part is baked into the game engine and CA explicitly says that we are not allowed to modify any of that stuff, even if we were able to figure it out by reverse engineering it or something. In fact, the tools we are given are very limited in what they can do. There is a lot less you can do with modding in Shogun 2 than in many other games (like say, Skyrim, or even other modern Total War games for that matter), and some modding that seems like it would be basic has taken incredible effort and janky workarounds from the community to do. It's a genuine miracle that folks have figured out how to do even some of the "simple" things that some Shogun 2 mods can do. For example, editing the UI is technically possible, with some fan-built tools for "decompiling" some of the UI code, and fan efforts to document what the UI code does, but other than simply replacing assets few people have even attempted to mod it.
@@QirnsChannel That sounds awful to work with. I'm glad to know that people like you try to mod the game with the given tools nonetheless 👍
@QirnsChannel if you got around to it and remember do you know the directory? I have the pack file manager so I can mod it myself.
Edit: I realize it may not be clear what I'm asking for. I'm asking for the directory of the speed penalties from fatigue.
1000 years of honor of horse archer samurai lose to farmer with long spear
A lot of stuff in game works best with smaller unit sizes
Swooping Crane is so cool. Thanks!
That has to be the most idiotic battle tactic ever: "Okay, here's the plan. We'll run in circles until we're exhausted and then they'll kill us. Mount up."
Skirmish more takes awhile to trigger and it looks to be poorly implemented for bow cav as they didn’t move away very much
It took you 9 minutes to show and explain that unit size is the relevant factor to how effective swooping crane + skirmish mode will be at maintaining correct distance to enemies.
Did I miss something, or is this video just 8 minutes of filler?
And you took extra time to critique someone who's in the process of adding actual value and knowledge to the community. Did I miss something, or are you incapable of making your own video?
As someone who's made discoveries in a few games now, I can say that my videos were also longer than they needed to be when I first started publishing discoveries. But there's no quicker way to discourage a budding contributor than to critique them over shit that doesn't matter. It might have taken someone hours of concerted effort to find something new about the game, and then it takes them more time to test all the edge cases, find out the limits and how to make it consistent, gather footage, edit it, and publish it.
It's a worthy goal to deliver your information as efficiently as possible, but people who do the actual work of discovering or publishing new information don't owe you anything. Make and publish a shorter video if you feel that's what the community needs. Otherwise, at best you're contributing nothing and at worst you're just discouraging the people who have actually gone out and done the work to bring you this info.
It's no wonder that until very recently there has been a dearth of detailed, published info about game mechanics in Shogun 2 when this is how we can expect the community to behave.
@@QirnsChannel Yes, I took the time to say that the video is too long for what it communicates, and I stand by that.
I fail to see what the volume of background work has to do with anything. There's an untold amount of it with any discovery, but the audience can only judge what is being presented.
Similarly, I fail to see what the low popularity of TW:S2 has to do with anything. Am I expected to praise anyone making videos on it, simply because no one else is? Don't know about you, but I'd rather receive honest criticism than empty flatter.
@@BlurbFish Today I learned that there are only two ways to respond to someone: be a dick or flatter them.
The point you missed is that you are not owed anything. You just come off as entitled. Especially when your unsolicited "honest criticism" is just rude.
Personally, I didn't mind the length. I want to see the methodology. But maybe the length didn't bother me as much because I care a lot more about the mechanics and the new info than I do about giving unsolicited feedback to the content creator about how they should make their videos.
You are not always the target audience, my dude.
Understanding why something happens is far more important for building broader skill than just learning tricks. Skirmishing interactions are generally pretty wonky in Shogun, the information in this video loosely applies to mechanics other than just swooping crane.
Similar issues happen with FotS gunners and kneel fire in skirmish mode, for example. This video led me to test if unit size was a factor, which it was.
More information is better, especially when it's something this niche. Nobody looking up mechanics on a 12 year old game has anything important enough going on in life that 7 minutes is going to matter.
They use “shogun_arrow_rider” worse arrow in game☹️
shogun_arrow_rider is better, not worse; it gives faster reload rate compared to normal arrows.
Medieval 2 have strongest Horse Archers in whole Total War Franchise
Sometimes, less is more.
U dont *fire bows
I read some german in School, der rote means dear rat
what map is that?