Which Human Nation Is The Most Powerful in the Warhammer World? | Warhammer Fantasy
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- The Empire of Man, Kingdom of Bretonnia, Tzardom of Kislev and Empire of Grand Cathay are all formidable bastions of human power, but which among them is the strongest?
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Great stuff! A similar vid on the non-human nations in near future?
You know I think you have a fetish for human like there are amazing and beautiful things out there to see curious about but why based like humans like myself and you?
Can you please talk about snakeman of khuresh
Makin a lot of assumptions about my competence their buddy.
The Empire is most notable for being the only genuinely forward-looking human nation. Everybody else is some flavor of conservative, but the Empire is all about trying out new stuff. Sure, some of the new stuff they try out goes horribly wrong, but they never let that slow them down. It's hands-down the most _dynamic_ society on the planet.
They traded with dwarfs for gunpowder, then figured out how to use it in a way the dwarfs never realized.
90% of imperial artillery isn't the final design, it's a field test
Unlike some other king-worshipping human empire mostly ruled by a council with a similar name...
The search for news things makes the people of the Empire especially vulnarable to the temptation of Chos.
@@peterkroger7112 Yet they still stand strong
@@peterkroger7112 haha "im doing my own research"
*grows tentacles
"Ffs"
I would like to Suggest a Fifth Option.
The Empire of "Man" where "Man" is defined as 3 Skaven in a Trenchcoat.
To be fair, if we count the Under Empire as part of the Empire of Man, the rats probably outnumber the humans significantly.
Skavenblight counts as Estalia/Tilea tho so maybe that'll help the margins.
I dont trust like that.
@@spamquisition4046 So what you are saying is..that Karl Franz is really 3 Skaven standing on Top of Each other?
@@RyuPlaneswalker Karl Franz is a rat that's for sure, at least that's what Boris Todbringer said to me last time we met.
What, don't be ridiculous!
Giant talking rats, we dismissed that theory.
"Three things that make the Empire great! Faith, Steel and Gunpowder!" - Magnus the Pious
Sprinkle little bit of wizards that can use wrap power and an actual living God that revive dead soldier and turn them into medieval equivalent of space marines
@@thiendo1260 Woah, woah, woah, slow down, that last part is getting into Age of Sigmar territory, and that is still a controversial subject for WHF fans to this day (on account of it killing their game off).
To quote a famous apothecary “And a loaded bolter never hurt!”
@@Prophetofthe8thLegion I must know the name of this apothecary
@@thiendo1260 this is not age of sigmar
I’d say it can change between the Empire and Cathay on any given day. Both are super reliant on the capabilities of its leaders and their strength fluctuates greatly. What I’m curious about is how they’re gonna address the Empire getting outclassed by Kislev and Cathay in game 3.
SUMMON THE REWORK UPDATES
I think they underestimate problems of EoM's political system. When Kislev/Cathay will have 60 years of bad Tsar/Emperor rule - the nation will be less effective, generals won't be very successful. Some losses when attacked. When EoM will have 60 years of bad Emperor's rule - civil war and therefore complete helplessness before external threats. Destruction of EoM when attacked.
@@ImperativeGames cathay can’t have worse rule because their leaders are immortal
@@shrek4949 well an immortal leader on the one hand is good because they can gain „infinite“ knowledge on how to run the place, but it’s bad because they might just suck at ruling
@@shrek4949 Yeah, but he takes naps longer than entire human lifespans. When he's paying attention, he's great. The rest of the time, his existence is an obstacle to Cathay's ability to act as a united whole, because nobody else can ever become Emperor and take over. At least when the Empire of Man has a civil war, you can figure that sooner or later somebody is going to win it, and given that they won, they're probably going to be pretty good at both war and politics. In Cathay, you know *NOBODY* is going to win it, they'll just keep on squabbling until the Emperor decides to step in and be Emperor again.
I think it would have been better to call the last category influence as opposed to culture.
I was thinking the same thing, but I was thinking "Cultural Projection". Influence is a more concise way of saying that. Having it be "Culture" makes it seem like Templin are calling Cathayan culture inferior, which, given the fact that many of the nations in Warhammer fantasy are analogous to real human nations, possibly has some unintentional racist undertones. I know they said that that's not what they meant, but if you have to clarify what you mean by something, you're probably doing it wrong in the first place.
Cathay is actually probably so powerful that its neighbors learn from her, and make the pilgrimage to do so. They are actually so dominant that neighbouring cultures emulate them of their own volition.
Korea, Vietnam and Japan in our world were actually so deeply influenced that they built pagodas, wrote Kanji and pronounced words with Han-on. They retain the ancient pronunciations even today, after most branches of Chinese moved on.
@SailorMoon least racist sailor moon fan
I’d personally go with the Empire of Man but Brettonia is a favorite of mine and Kislev and Cathay are also really cool.
They're all good. Well, depending on whether the viewer likes or dislikes Brettonia, but other than Feudalistan all the nations are good.
Slow Moe
Feudalistan lmfao
I like human nations in Warhammer in general. They are pretty cool!
Gay flag, but I agree. Bretonnia is my favourite. I loved the sthick that a single grail knight can be a turning point of a battle (they kinda do in video games, see generic grail lords and high level paladins)
Keep in mind that unlike Kislev, Cathay has never been truly defeated even the monkey king affair was more of a humiliation then the Great War against chaos. Also while this applies to all the faction to an extent it does depend on the province central Cathay is the most peaceful place in the Warhammer world while northern Cathay is basically Cadia.
I think inner Ulthuan is the most peaceful place in the world.
@@andarara-c1p canonically demons occasionally burst out of the vortex also the sea keeps eating the city’s also theirs a dark elf invasion, every other century which in high elf terms is equivalent to a decade. Still in the top ten
@@queekheadtaker7327 Yes, but at the same time, Ulthuan is the only safe place from your vermin, my dear Queek. Not even central Cathay is safe from that.
And Skaven are a notorious threat I´d say.
@@andarara-c1p a fairly moot point since the skaven invented nukes and rockets, also floating castles do wonders for organising defences against skaven
@@queekheadtaker7327 I still think south Ulthuan is safer than central Cathay. Central Cathay it´s safe just as Altdorf can be safe because geographically it has the threats apparently far, but not really.
I think Bretonnia deserves a 'Middling' in politics. Yes it's an antiquated system as base but one with very clear advantages over our real-world counterparts. The requirement of 'Grail knighthood' for kings ensures a degree of competency other feudal systems could not guarantee and the Fay Enchantress being able to override the kings (or dukes) orders and command the grailknights (as have happened historically) adds another safeguard against bad leadership and internal strife. It's certainly still possible but it's a lot better than real-life feudal socities.
Everyone laughs at the empire until the elector counts start working together.
Then they start back peddling REAL HARD.
The trick is getting those duplicitous bastards to work for a single goal!
@@OriginalRAB maybe we should elect a cat herder as the next emperor? I could see him being about as successful as Frans.
If the entire empire just stops infighting out of nowhere, everyone is now checking their personal relationships with it and are hoping its on its good side cause if not then all of a sudden its a fucking end game event and you got a race of murder monkeys led by a super powered murder monkey welding a hammer and everyone else has who knows what barging in through your door, and the walls, and the cieling, and the ground, and the air somehow hell it would cause the dragon emperor to get off his damn thrown alongside his wife and he would be quickly trying to make sure that grand cathay is in good relation with the empire
Another very good video.
I agree with most of the points that have been cited, except for one, the "low" in Politics for Bretonnians.
Everything said in the video is true. They are feudal who, compared to others, have a rather archaic political system. But there is one point that changes the game. In the kingdom of Bretonnia, the highest positions (all dukes, the king and others) are held by grail knights.
This is a position which cannot be inherited and which must be earned in the eyes of the Lady. Thus, there is a certain assurance that only capable men who have proven themselves by their bravery and their ability to lead men will attain the highest responsibilities.
The religious dimension of the Grail Knights also ensures that there is a certain unity between Church and State within the Bretonnian territory since the rulers have been blessed by the main goddess of the country to fulfill their function. Where dissention may arise in nations like the Empire between the cult of Ulric, that of Sigmar, and between these cults and the Electors Counts.
Strange women in ponds distibuting swords is no basis for a system of government
@@arandomcomment7208 Lazy lizard on a rock not either but Cathay seems okay with it. As same as Kislev seems to have good time with their Disney’s Elsa queen.
Turn every aspect of a universe into a joke don’t help to understand it.
On this case, the Lady of the Lake has in fact huge power and those who take a drop of the grail has a fraction of it. That's not questionnable, as same as the hard path needed to drink a drop of the grail and the stability granted by unity between the fact that heads of the States are litteral living saints of the main and overinfluenced Church of the country.
Any answer besides the Empire has been forsaken by Sigmar
The greatest human nation of all time in Warhammer fantasy was Nehekhara, which at it's height dominated the eastern Old World and even raided the High Elves.
And they were ruled by Settra, a guy who could rip someone in half with his bare hands. And he also learned magic. He wasn't naturally gifted in magic, but he was so damn stubborn he FORCED himself to learn magic so the liche priests couldn't hold any power over him.
He also made GODS submit to his rule. LITERAL GODS.
@@sev1120 settra is so badass he was one of the only people who had a solid ending for the shitshow that was end times lore. everyone else got a pretty badly written ending (or was genuinely forgotten about).
settra however, was offered literally everything he could have wanted with no catches by the chaos gods if they served him. i cannot reiterate enough how much that this had NEVER happened before in any capacity due to the chaos gods always asking for a price (usually your soul).
settra, after being offered, once again, literally everything he had ever wanted, including that golden body he dreamed of, promptly told the chaos gods that "settra does not serve, settra rules" before walking into the end of the world.
fucking badass, and the guy wasn't even magical in anyway, he simply had the fucking wills to not care.
"Kislev is the most powerful military because they do the same as Cathay with less men and no Great Bastion!"
10 seconds later:
"Kislev also enjoys having allies in the Empire, Dwarfs..."
There you have your answer as to how Kislev has survived with less men and no Bastion: ALLIES, the fucking EMPIRE and the DWARFS, while Cathay is largely on their own.
In terms of sheer economic, social, and military might Id definitely have to say Grand Cathay although it being a "human" empire might be in question considering all its rulers are Dragons.
And Bretonnia is an elf puppet state.
@@thecandlemaker1329 lol touche
"karl franz seems capable, but theres no guarantee his replacement will be any good"
his replacement: literally Sigmar, greatest of mortals, ascended to godhood
They guy who led the Empire to defeat, failed to defeat Archeon, got the world destroyed, and had previously got himself trapped in the Vortex for millennia. The point stands.
.
Let alone for such a discussion End Timesing the world shouldn't count. Even more when you realize just how much it messed and diminished multiple races while giving Norsca and Skaven infinite forces cheats.
@@anvos658
Kirbyhammer isn't legitimate lore anyway. Storm of Chaos will always be the true timeline, not that insulting, character-assassinating, bullshit-lore-inventing, retcon-filled, comically grimdark "End Times".
Screw Games Workshop.
Archaon was defeated at Middenheim and killed at the Brass Keep.
The setting was discontinued after Storm of Chaos. End Times is a pile of retconned garbage by new writers.
@@reidparker1848 The End Times was nothing more than an excuse for GW to shelve Fantasy, hence why it's nothing but rushed ass-pulls.
Some parts of this deserve to be reconsidered, especially as they relate to economy and politics.
Somebody else already outlined that Grail Knights are probably the most OP humans around, including undead ones, as long as they dont have plot armor, and that therfore there is always a badass in charge, with the explicit support of the highest religious authority, the goddess herself and all dukes of the Kingdom. Unlike the Empire which suffers civil war much more often and also unlike its real world inspiration has a tendency to elect an Emperor with only half the electorate voting for him (somehow). Bretonnia isn't also any more or less feudal than a land of undying dragons with petty disputes between each other from what we know. Given that history isn't a simple progression or collection of arithmatics in the real world, let alone in a fantasy version of it, calling Feudalism anachronistic is a bold choice. Given that Kislev, Cathay, the High Elves, Dark Elves, Araby, Sylvania, the Tomb Kings and to a large extent the Empire work in a feudal system, Bretonnia in this regard is very much "chronistic". Placing Bretonnia as low is very much unfair, and the Empire is high is difficult to justify.
Now economy. Having 8 remaining steam tanks with nobody knowing how they actually work after their inventor died is a far cry from being on the verge of industrial revolution. Having guns and cannons does not mean you are industrialising. Real humans had various types of guns before the spinning jenny was invented. The only thing the most industrous city of the Empire really produces is guns and big guns, neither of which require factories. They probably have something like craft production of the 1500s, given what we saw. So saying that they are close to dominant his too speculative. Even if they were an industrialised place, so what? Kislev can't afford your wares, Bretonnia thinks they are unchivalrous and will reject them and Cathay is too far away for it to be worth the trip to sell them there, so whatever economic power the Empire could get at a strech in the hopes and dreams of its fans, it has no way to actually leverage them in this world.
I understand why you didn't include the other human nations, but I still curious on how they would rank. Personally, I think Araby would be probably the 5th strongest human nation. I could see them being one of the dominate trade/economic powers of the world, plus they must have a great military to be able to hold their own against vampire pirates and the undying legions of Nehekhara warriors. They most likely have competent leadership and efficient government institutions, as well.
Also, I hope that Araby, Nippon and Ind get added. Please oh please, CA.
Also, should one take into account ancient Nehekara? The tomb kings were human, and unlike the vampires they aren't corrupted by the taint of Nagash's dark magic (with notable exception of Arkhan the Black and, well, Nagash)
The Empire of Man is my favorite, but for the new lore I said Catai.
I wouldn’t even say new lore, a lot of what we’ve gotten from Cathy is Warhammer 3 isn’t so much a retcon but more of an expansion. We always kinda knew that Cathay was absurdly wealthy, populated, and advanced and some of the best weapons in the Empire Arsenal like the Hellstorm Rocket batteries were inspired by Cathay.
@@InquisitorThomas
The hellstrom was inspired by the enginer seeing fireworks from the cathay ambassador. Fireworks already existed in the empire.
@@InquisitorThomas no….no most of the new stuff is straight up complete retcons
Magic should have been a category too. I think a comparison between their magical disciplines would have been cool
The Empire crushes the others in a landslide. The Colleges of Magic were founded with the help of Teclis and other high elves early in the Empire's history. No other human nation has as many, or as versatile, of wizards as the Empire.
@@BigMikeMcBastard The colleges were also designed to maximise humanity's strength and weakness in magic.
A single human cannot wield more then 1 wind of magic. It's just not possible for them to do so.
However, when combined the winds of magic can produce some powerful effects, and their central location shows humanity's greatest strength. Versatility. Sure, one fireball might not do much, but it won't matter of 900 more are coming at you from the bright college's field trip
Oh yeah, who would win? The nightmarish federation constantly at war with itself, the feudal backwater, the frozen wasteland on the doorstep of chaos or the giant prosperous empire ruled by celestial dragons?
How is this even a contest?
Also "kislev's army is better than Cathay's because they're always fighting and the wall has made Cathay weak"? Are you kidding me? That makes no goddamn sense! It doesn't matter how hardened your warriors are if there's only a pitiful number of them!
Almost certainly Cathay, its just so much more unified then any other and has seen centuries of relative peace and prosperity. Add in the immortal incredibly powerful dragons as well as an elite military and you get a faction that is likely the most powerful and unified in the entire warhammer world.
I think it's a bit foolish to downplay just how overwhelming grail knights actually are for Brettonia militarily. They're capable of destroying a greenskin invasion with just 12 knights hopped up on Lady of the lake bathwater.
Strange women living in ponds distributing swords IS a basis for a system of government
@@dragonfell5078 Well you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
@@artski09 Grail Knights: Shut up, will you! Shut up!
@@artski09 Damn right you can if it makes you tank cannonballs.
I love the way you are so in tune with the worldbuilding and its details. I admire you for that.
You forgot the all important "rides bears" category. SHIELD OF HUMANITY!
Cathayan diplomat : "where are your walls ? How do you repel the Norse Raiders ?
Kislevite lord : **points at his men training** -these are our walls..."
(Historical reference FTW)
Most of the Old World (The Empire, Bretonnia, Kislev, Tilea, Estalia) does have common religion. Kislev deviates from this the most - they have a number of gods worshipped almost exclusively in their own lands - but while Sigmar is only worshipped in The Empire, and The Lady of the Lake is primarily worshipped by Bretonnian nobility... there's a whole pantheon of gods worshipped across those lands: Taal and Rhya, Shallya, Mórr, Verena, Myrmidia, and Ulric. Myrmidia holds a place similar to Sigmar in Tilea and Estalia, but is worshipped as a more civilised patron of warfare in the southern Empire (compared to the ferocious Ulric in the north, similar to the Kislevite Ursun). Shallya is venerated by the poor and desperate across the Old World, and Mórr's funerary cult ministers to all.
Their individual popularity will vary across individual regions-Ulric is strongest in Middenheim without a doubt, even exceeding Sigmar's influence-but the common faith of the Old World is classical/transactional polytheism with numerous regional gods alongside more international ones, rather than separate monotheistic nations as they're often misinterpreted.
Well said
This is actually very simple, Kislev and Bretonnia are very explicitly weaker than the Empire in the lore, mostly due to their smaller populations and lack of technology. Kislev has some guns yes, but simply not on the scale that the Empire does.
Cathey is more of an open question, I could see it being interpreted as stronger than the Empire however they do not have the close relationship with the Dwarves that the Empire has which served to boost their tech development significantly.
The Empire also has the strongest magical institutions of any Human Nation due to Teclis establishing the Imperial collages of magic based off High Elf knowedge rather than the Empire advancing its own theory of magic.
In short the Empire is clearly the strongest human nation because they are the only one that has absorbed as much knowedge from both the Elder races.
While other human factions have better wizards than the Empire does none produces medium quality magic users with the same consistency or in the same numbers that the Empire does.
Bretonnia has cannons, super soldiers, and a larger population. They also have closer connections to the elves than the Empire
@@CyrodiilCome Bretonnia has cannons only at a sea (for very dubious reasons that I hesitate to even call valid in the lore anymore, but whatever) It does canonically have a stronger Navy than the Empire as well which will I will admit, as this makes sense due to Bretonnias much longer coastline.
Another Bretonnian advantage you forgot: A significant portion of Bretonnia's leader base is made of said super soldiers and thus has a longer than human lifespan and very potent protection from both chaos corruption as well as conventional assassination. This is unquestionably Bretonnias biggest advantage over every other Human faction and its a big one.
Even with this however Grail Knights are simply not enough to close the gap in power between the Empire and Bretonnia. Grail Knights areamazing and make the Brets one of the only Human nations that can beat Chaos and the Vampires head to head sometimes, but against the Empire they are to rare to make up the difference in technology between the countries, esspecialy against massed guns.
I will have to disagree with wherever it is you got the notion that Bretonnia has a larger population than the Empire. Warhammer writers have messed up scale within Warhammer again and again, so I am not suprised it says this somewhere, but the word of one author is to little to go by. The Empire is clearly significantly larger than Bretonnia in terms of both land mass and population density and the vast majority of Warhammer lore is crystal clear on this point. Because they are far behind the Empire in technology as well the Empire is also better at making use of the population that it does have in wartime. This is made clear by both the general lore and the RP source material Knights of the Grail which goes into significant detail on Bretonnias population.
The Empire has multiple cities in each of its Provinces and a number of smaller towns while Bretonnia only has one city per Duchy. Population is simply not comparable between the two.
Bretonnias better relations with both the high elves and wood elves (Not to mention its relations with the Dwarves are not bad either) Are simply not enough. The High Elves are happy to trade with them and accept their aid, they would never help them against the Empire in any meaningful way, not just because they like the Empire up and running, but also because the Dwarves would likley side with the Empire if they got involved. Its just not something they are willing to shed blood over.
In summary Grail Knights and good relations with the elves are very nice but they are not enough to give Bretonnia an edge over the Empire.
@@GrimgoreIronhide Bretonnia is an army of soldiers who've trained from the time they walk to fight. Supplemented by inbred surprisingly mediocrely armed peasant levees. Bretonnia has won wars against the Empire. And magic is the equalizer. Otherwise the elves wouldn't be vastly more powerful than the humans. Bretonnia has been aides by the wood elves against the Empire b4, Bretonnia does have a larger population than the Empire, their population was so large they use to launch crusades to get rid of the excess population. This is how the border princes, and a lot of the new world colonies got their start. Their leadership (Grail Knights) are more cohesive and wouldn't betray each other/ watch eachother burn to the ground. The Empire is politically unstable, with for the most part horrible leadership. A bretonnian army can rally and be on the move quicker than an Empire one.
I think Kislev Politics is middeling at best. The supreme office of the Tzar/Tzarina is actively questioned by the empowered boyars, and there's a lot of infighting as a result. Kislev in total war literally starts off with a civil war by one such unhappy ruling class.
I think one of the big issues with ranking the human nations is the way Warhammer is written. The old word has been far more developed so the eastern nations aren't super well written since a lot of them didn't have armies.
It's too bad Grand Cathay is both old & new, with newer info being published only recently, making it difficult to accurate assess its relative power compared to others. Then there are times when I cannot be sure if Cathay is a human nation with Dragons in it, or a Dragon nation that hosts humanity. Either way, one should keep in mind that Grand Cathay existed prior to every known nation in the Warhammer world, with its ruling class predating even the Old Ones. It should also be remembered that given its age, Grand Cathay had witnessed the rise and fall of most nations while itself kept powerful foes at bay and persevered. Nehekhara is now a shadow of its former self, the Elvish nations fragmented, the Dwarfen Empire fractured, but Cathay remained as is, despite whatever internal conflict it experienced throughout numerous millennia. The Great Bastion also didn't erect itself, and Chaos certainly wouldn't allow such obstacle to exist if it wasn't for the fact that Cathayan armies actually managed to defeat Chaos on the field.
Then there is the question of economy. How do you measure Cathay's economy? If the limited lore and newly published information serve as any indication, in terms of production and manufacturing, Cathay's methods are probably a mixture of High Elvish and Human capabilities, therefore making it difficult to actually compare to the rest of humanity. After all, the lore does indicate Elvish enthusiasm for Cathayan goods that aren't usually displayed for manufactured goods produced by other human nations.
Lastly, only Cathayan leaders can utter lines such as this: "We are not interested in a 'mere' god's power", and we know this wasn't an empty boast...
Brettonia has the best cheese and wine, and therefore is the obvious answer
I realy enjoyed this comparison.
At first i thought cathay would be an easy first, but yea its obvious that an abundance of alies in combination with industrialisation would put the empire first.
Ok, the empire needed allies in dire sotuatio otherwise it would been steamrolled. With out the elves no magical lores, without the dwarves no guns nor allied help, with out the wood elves let more beastmen, without kislev always invaded first. Meanwhile Cathay has stood against chaos on its front door eons before Sigman became a God and yes never fallen. Not even with that money business
I love how Bretonia should have been better, but it's crippled by its own failings, while Kislev should have been lowered, but manages to place third due to its resilience in the face of unfair odds.
The Empire, everything else is heresy.
Try to witchhunt in Kislev and Kislev manhunts you!
Dangit. You beat me to it.
Love all the Warhammer Fantasy content being released lately.
Truly, the god emperor Sigmar is pleased.
Anyhow, I enjoyed this video. I hope you'll do similar comparison videos for other franchises, like Gundam.
Brettonian Royarchs HAVE to be Grail Knights, blessed by the Lady of the Lake and noble in both bearing and spirit. Unlike the Empire or Cathay the Only "civil war" was caused by vampiric corruption of the most powerful Dukedom. Brettonia is ludicrously stable and has supported overseas colonial efforts and anti piratical naval actions.
Yeah really wished that would've been mentioned. The aristocracy of Brettonia is noble by nature of their relationship with the Lady.
Stable to an extent: there's always the risk of the peasants rising up, and the knights alone only go so far.
The royarch is also pretty powerless outside of war and more representative then anything
@@Tribune_of_Italia it's not tough. The vast majority of Bretonias nobility is deeply corrupt and the lady allows titanic misuse of human life. Grail knights only make up a few Dozent knights in the country
Was literally about to type this. they Royarch is literally chosen by a god.
Raises a good question - if Cathay can be considered a human power despite rule by non-human godlike beings, surely Chaos also counts? While supported by non-human forces like daemons and beastmen, the Chaos Warriors are clearly human and based on the Vikings.
i agree
Kurgan are said to having been the most powerfull human nation at one point
This was great, and I agree with the choices. Hope the Institue is able to compare the other factions that are alike.
I'd love to see a ranking between orcs beastmen Skaven and lizardmen
1. Skaven 2. Lizardmen 3. Greenskins 4. Beastmen.
Why Skaven on top? Able to replenish their numbers quickly and powerful tech. Lizardmen has powerful physique and divine magic, but cannot replenish losses. Greenskins have vast and versatile armies but are too fractious between the tribes. Beastmen are primitive and has poor leadership and just suck overall.
You forgot to mention that Cathay owns a major airlines that serves most of South-East Asia.
I would love to see a follow-up to this based on the races made by the old ones:
Dwarf realms
Lizardmen
Elves (be they high elves, wood elves or dark elves)
Ogres
I dunno, I'd give Cathay a higher military score, you seem to be taking points off for the fact that they have a defensive mindset but not factoring in their geographic and geopolitical position as evidence for their military strength. Their position geographically is basically a kind of Hybrid of Kislev and the empire, but you've rightly pointed out that they're in a much worse geopolitical situation, however you've failed to consider that they've been holding out against chaos in more or less the same way Kislev and to a lesser extent the empire without the geopolitical advantages that those nations have (pretty much every major chaos invasion the empire dwarves and elves send forces into Kislev to help defend, meanwhile Cathay has been defending against chaos AND their southern neighbors (who are their enemies) successfully by itself, since before any of the aforementioned human nations even existed. Without other advantages to rely on this means their military effectively HAS to be stronger than you're giving them credit for, if it weren't they would have been overrun long ago.
I would add a diplomacy category specifically. How capable are they at drawing others into a fight on their side.
It's essentially Cathay or the Empire. If the Empire is united by a strong ruler it is temporarily stronger, but the general rule in my mind is that Cathay is consistently stronger. Both admirable civilisations in their own ways
Cathay could possibly dominate in all categories but we know very little about it because it has almost no lore while the Empire is basically the Warhammer poster boy.
Yeah, disagree that the empire is the best in economy because while more eficent Cathay has the numbers of workers that can compensate for that.
@@alexandrub8786 Cathay may have the most potential for the best economic power, it's also on the wrong side of the planet. The Empire has a far easier time trading with the High Elves, Brettonia, the dawi strongholds, Kislev and the Border Princes. Than Cathay does as the latter has to practically go through an odyssey before their caravans reach the rest of the Old world then make the trip back.
Frankly that's the problem with Cathay, they're just so out of the way from the other "Ordertide" factions that they might as well be on an island like Ulthoan. Except replace ocean water with mountain ranges and wastlands full of chaos, ogres, orks and barbaric tribes.
@@Tenebraeification you talk like they don't or can't do trade with Nippon or the kingdoms of Ind. and what is in the Hinterlands of Khuresh.
Cathay is isolationist
I was just thinking about this topic and here you guys went ahead and made it.
Oooh more Warhammer Fantasy stuff!
For a second I thought this was a TierZoo video ranking human races
While I don't disagree with these rankings in the slightest, I would also like to point out that Bretonnia, when mustered, is very capable militarily, despite its social and technological obscolesence.
If the empire wasn't divided, under threat from greenskins, orks, skavens, them vikings dudes in the north, chaos in said nothern area, Nurgle fucking Boris, more orks, more skaven, ect Bretonia would be one nice area for conquest
Can we get a video on the structure of the imperium along with the different empires that make it up
On a Cathay playthrough atm and love this comparison. I miss the Empire but also sick of it (overplayed)
Great video! I love the points you made and you did a good job to cover your tracks with fair reason. Even things it seems you’re on the side of still have critiques brought to life
Every faction in this video has there Time to shine on different days when it appeals to me.
i'd aktualy argue that the elves have 4-6 distinkt cultures all with varying degrees of seperation from the original elves. dark, high and wood elves are the obvius ones, aswell as the far less known sea-elves but the high elven colonists and cult of slanesh can nearly be considerd distinkt cultures of their own
Love Warhammer Content, especially comparison videos!
One Bretonnian Grail Knight is basically the good version of the Chaos Champion - and it means that he is extremally strong and powerfull for a human
i would argue that cathay needs walls to fend off chaos because they have the longest border with the realm of chaos and they don't have many allies to assist them unlike kislev or empire (the only ally they have is the monkey king in the south but also historically proven as unreliable as he tried to take over cathay). and its not like they can have allies either with their geography, surrounded by hostile nations like kingdom of ind, barbarians, ogre kingdoms and beastman tribes (unless they can get a reliable connection with the west or nippon) or fix their relations with southern people or kingdom of ind, there is no way they can get allies until transportation technology advances further or the ivory road becomes safer.
Something you forgot about regarding the military;
FLEXIBILITY.
Warhammer has a whole plethora of factions fighting one another, each one with their own unique style of war. From Dark Elf corsairs to Skaven machinations to rampaging Greenskins, an effective army MUST be ready for every eventuality.
Cathay's army is far too focused on defense, requiring perfect deployment and static positions to remain effective. Wonderful at withstanding onslaughts but terrible in situations that require initiative.
*Middling Flexibility*
Bretonnia is a one trick pony. Counter cavalry tactics used extensively would lay waste to entire legions of nigh irreplaceable grail knights.
*Low Flexibility*
According to lore, Kislev's army was superbly mobile; their units were similar but their capacity to deploy, surround, and reinforce were unmatched.
In the Total War game,a better word would be "versatile", as each of their early frontline units also double as their primary missile units.
*High Flexibility.*
The Empire however has been praised as "the jack of all trades" both in total war, the original tabletop, AND WITHIN THE SETTING ITSELF. For ever task they have a tool, and a highly adaptable professional military which is able to deploy and maneuver swiftly. They are equipped to be effective against (or at least able to counter) every foe in the setting, and in Warhammer, that is no small accomplishment.
*Dominant Flexibility.*
The empire is easily dominant in economic might and military , you divide it into the separate states then they have no chance, their unity is also nearly nil among the states. Kislev second in military with a terrible economy. Bretonia are really outgunned and lacking economic might beyond wine, nice geography though. I don’t know much about the cathay economy but it does have a good military (in my opinion)
This is probably the only one where I can’t just pick the empire and move on with my day because they have basically no unity between the elector counts who seem to enjoy beating each other up a lot.
I think that I would actually put Kislev at top despite being an man of the empire fielding a good model army. The empire is a giant of the old world but is always slow to mobilise and can easily suffer for how divided it is, like the British empire it was a titan once it got going, but struggled to mobilise quickly. Bretonia really can’t do anything well so eh. Cathay just lacks any international sway and for me so I’d put it in third.
1)Kislev
2)The glorious Empire
3) Cathay
4) bretonia
>Empire sea ports are frozen in winter
I don't think that's correct, they're not *that* far north. Frozen harbours may happen in Norsca and Erengrad but it's not that common in Nordland or Ostland.
Cathay with is fortifications of skyscraper size walls, gunpowder base infantry, ziplines fleet, and magic combat mechs is just a match for a faction of farmers that can only be fighting for a bit before the farms start failing and medieval tech knights......ya i sense i bit of bias here, i mean we aren't reviewing the order tide vs Cathay but Bertonnia vs Cathay
By the Lady, is that even a question! How can you consider the western buffer states greater than fair Bretonnia
Which overall Faction ranks highest though?
(feel free to determine if Sylvania and it's vampire nobility count as imperial citizens and where the chaos wastes fall)
Cathay's technology seems pretty advanced tbh.
Not really: their Sky Fleet may look fancy, but if you gave one to some Empire engineers, they will turn out something better.
@@johnthecrazedsskull81 Yet the empire has no sky fleet... Their steam tank is the most impressive thing they have but it's numbers are so limited, in fact the empire has a huge problem standardizing their technology, something the dwarves, skaven, and cathay seem to not have. Cathay may be behind the dwarves and skaven but they have an actual sky fleet as opposed to a handful of tanks. Their cannons are more mobile but we can call that a wash. What does it for me is that the empire just can't industrialize enough to compete with the other factions. Production capacity is an important technological factor.
@@JackJohnson-bw4pu Ehm... The empire is by far the most industrialized human nation... Nuln is literally a semi automated city sized factory and imperial cannons are far superior to their Cathayan counterparts which in the lore itself are called primitive bronze cannons. Their gunpowder weapons are also comparably pathetic. You also gotta remember that most of the non standardized imperial Equipment isn't in the TW or TT roster, but there's a ton of it there. The sky fleet (even if you ignore the way they work , which would never be valid ) would go down at the first volley of arrows or you know... Long ranged sniper rifles that can accurately hit *eyes* at beyond the range any other gun can fire (the hochland longrifle )
@@JackJohnson-bw4pu that doesn't change the fact that the Empire could make a better Sky Fleet if they got their hands on one.
also I want to point out that conscripts in the Empire can have black powder weapons while Cathay's are basically slightly better equipped Bretonnian peasants. So who has the better production capacity again?
I wish there will be a Nuln dlc. It could introduce new units for the Empire like new steam tank variants, nuln ironsides or long rifles and a new hero, the master engineer.
Interesting video, subscribed for more content like this, surprisingly have not seen this kind of content on TH-cam or anywhere 💪💪💪
nice vid. how about a video of which chaos forces is the most powerful : beastmen, norsca, warriors of chaos, the deamons of chaos (both undivided and monogod factions) , and chaos dwarfs?
all the other human factions moved their manufacturing industry to Cathay...
I would expect Bretonnia's leadership/governance to be a bit higher (at least middling) just due to the important of the chivalric code & influence of their Lady/Fey Enchantress. Where the Empire can get saddled with essentially politicians & wheelers/dealers who debase the central authority to get votes, Bretonnia seems to have a more assuredly line of succession (without slipping into the complacency of absolutism)
It probably would if they didn't treat the peasants like dog shit.
Call me a dipshit but I feel Bretonnia while not having the most sophisticated or professional army should get a little more props for it seeing as they have a not insignificant amount of superhuman knights leading the charge and smashing apart it’s enemies. Not saying it should move up in the rankings, I feel they just needed someone to at least give them a little bit of props besides “their geographical position is their only good thing besides potentially their culture”. Awesome video as usual gentlemen, keep up the amazing work.
What's with the eckharts ladder style Thumbnail
did he invent the vertical bar?
@@TemplinInstitute it may have your banner but having four "factions compared" seems a bit too close to the formula
The art work in this video was excellent 👏 ... where did you source all this ? 🤔
Humanity separated is a worthy opponent but united there unstoppable.
I can't believe they didn't add the "Imperium of Man"
What about the Tomb Kings, they were once ALL human. Just in the current form they are living skeletons. Although if you include them what is to say about vampires who were once also human. Although tomb kings fall more into the human category because they do not utilize othere species, just their constructs. 🤔
I to disagree with kislev's military. They have only survived many invasions because the empire and its allies came time and time again to help kislev.
The Empire and only the Empire
really no surprise here. Agree with the analysis.
But what about the bear factor? Kislev is absolutely dominant in this. The exclusion this very important category makes it clear that this ranking is biased against the best human faction
Sorry but you're overestimating these populations. Altdorf has a population of 100,000, the largest Empire city. Tens of millions as an estimate is ridiculous
What about the other two human factions of the Warhammer Universe, Nippon and the Kingdom of Ind?
I have to disagree with Brettonia's Government ranking. The King is a Grail Knight and thus has the direct backing of the Lady of the Lake, so by definition he is uncorruptible and not bound by any laws and social restraints. This means that he does not have to engage in petty politicking to ensure the nation's backing, while being able to issue Edicts and Errantry Wars to swiftly destroy any threats. Compared to the Empire, or Grand Cathay, where all it takes is one bad ruler to completely jeopardize the nation (Boris Goldfather is a good example of this) the system has many failsafes in place to prevent such scenarios.
You also mentioned Kislev's centralized authority, but this is patently false. The Tzar has very, very little control over Troll Country and the provinces adjacent to it, local courts and governments with ruling supreme in these isolated places. Besides, we cannot talk about centralized authority when Kislev itself is on the brink of civil war, political infighting having ravaged the fragile political stability.
I was playing wh2 the other day and clicked on a peasant unit. I heard of one the guys say "a knight pushed me into the mud, im not worthy" I died laughing for the next 10mins
I agree but if cathay emperor comes back and start controlling everything seriously then I believe that cathay would be first. That's only if the emperor of cathay comes back and start controlling things again
Cathay, probably. I suppose you could quibble about whether being ruled by dragons disqualifies, but yeah
Cathay isn't OP because there isn't much lore surrounding them tbh
I just had a video idea
Could you cover different forms of civilization's/how they Govern in sci Fi? Not like ideology but more so what they are, Like a machine empire or a Hivemind
Thank you the English subtitle.
I'm pretty sure it's stated in the lore that the most powerful human nation is the Empire followed by Bretonnia.
Everybody disrespects Araby. Damn you Creative Assembly!!!
Thing here is the narrative from GW puts the Empire of Man as the protagonists so they will always start off any scenario as an under dog beset by woe only to through some combination of their ingenuity and the foolishness of their enemies triumph. Bretonnia is setup as the junior partner in the narrative in the story of humanity and on the tabletop with their medieval look entice the of historical wargamers. Kislev and Cathay are given footnotes as "they exist" and nothing more.
All it would take is to shift the perspective of the Old World and make any of the other three the protagonists and suddenly all kinds of lore would be written to make them look on top.
FOR SIGMAR
FOR THE EMPIRE AHHHHHH!!
*Runs at a ogre with a halberd*
i git an idea:
what about a video cherry picking the best parts of each nation and making the ultimate human empire?
As Eragon said (kinda): human beings do not desire an immortal king
Cathay may have Dragon lords, but the empire have THE SUPREME PATRIARCH
Prior to Karl Franz, the Empire was ruled by Boris Goldgather, who was basically their version of Louis XVI. Greedy and selfish, he ruled during a time of plague, which devastated the Empire. His reign ended (along with his life) when the Skaven invaded the Empire. So that goes to show that the Empire is really only as strong as long as they have a good leader.
"Prior to" is doing a lot of work here. The Empire has existed for two and a half millennia, and had a mixture of good and bad rulers. Karl-Franz Holsweig-Schliestein, Crown Prince of the Reikland, is the fourth in a line of Reiklander Emperors, succeeding his father, Luitpold in 2502, about twenty years ago.
Boris Goldgather reigned centuries before that.
Do the Nehekhara still count? I mean they wielded immense power even before their 'plight'.
They straight up said no
More Templin lore ?
Warhammer lore is always begging for just a few more details about the way things work. I feel like the Empire has everything it needs to become a superpower capable of putting a stop to most threats against humans (short of the infinite magic hordes pouring from the north), but they just don't do it. For example, they could have an armored corps of steam tanks leading the charge for every army. Sure they're difficult to make and expensive, but just look at the results! They speak for themselves! How many pulped orcs do you need to produce before an idea is officially designated kill-y enough to dump national resources into? But instead of that, for whatever reason, they only have 8 working tanks total. I'm sorry, do your engineers have better things to do than spending every waking moment making armies of those things? Does the Emperor not have enough influence or wealth to coerce/force/hire enough of the engineers from the college to strip apart and replicate just one of those damn things?
And they're still mostly a nation of peasants toiling away under feudal regimes! I remember reading somewhere in a piece of lore that the college of engineers actually came up with a working design for what basically amounted to a steam powered combine harvester. Apparently, they decided to keep this to themselves because they were worried the peasants would REVOLT due to losing their jobs to machines. This means they have what could potentially be the answer to feeding their nation like none of any species has ever been able to do before them, and they keep it to themselves because they don't want to deal with the hassle of a couple angry people with pitchforks.
Also, why _isn't_ the Empire more united? Monsters are an accepted and well-known part of the world and daily life, as are evil gods from another dimension. Shouldn't most people be banding together in a brotherly tide of mutual hatred for all things evil and supernatural? I just feel like people would work together a little bit better when hordes of otherworldly goatmen are tearing apart their villages and eating their neighbors, friends and family weekly. It's not like greenskins and beastmen would have a lot of human sympathizers, they're not exactly the kind of creatures you can put in a pound and make look adorable and sad on a TV ad with emotional music. But, as it stands, the Empire still has civil wars like a bunch of petty noblemen with too much time on their hands while their peasantry is devoured by any number of horrible creatures every time they try to go foraging for their children's next meal.
It's certainly an interesting setting...I know Priestly had a lot more planned for his setting, before GW canned him; retconned and then blew it up.
Storm of Chaos will always be the true timeline.