Everyone should be able to fit in/ belong without blending in. Instead of a group being a melting pot where people lose their individuality, a group should celebrate the diversity that exists inside their group.
I wonder how many other 4’s have been utterly crushed in childhood by the “ONEs” in their lives demanding they be PERFECT, or the “EIGHTS” in their lives who utterly wanted to control them. No wonder some of us 4’s are so effed up.
15:33 “4s want to fit in without having to blend in” 💡 20:58 “it may not be we’re trying to avoid you but we’re trying to avoid the things you aren’t afraid to avoid” 💡 24:37 “I think 4s hate being pegged” 💡
As a 4, I consider "emotional" and "sensitive" to be compliments, not insults! Also, when we wear (literally or metaphorically) symbols of our uniqueness, I don't think we're asking for permission not to fit in. We either do it because it makes us feel good and we don't care what others think, or we're saying "I know I'm not going to fit in. Will you love me anyway?"
As a 99% 4.. Exactly, "fit in with out blending in". Desire a sense of belonging but not be a sheep in the heard. Belong to a loving group & not feeling excluded, while still having individuality. We don't want to be put in a box, because we want the attention of being understood.
"You enjoy connecting with people on the basis of shared authentic thoughts and emotions. And it is important that you feel understood." - I have never felt more understood or seen 😅
Don't know why I'm dumping this here, but I really feel like the enneagram has had an almost life changing impact on me. All this time I've just been going through life so frustrated that I felt like I was just perpetually misunderstood, and so alienated and I just for the first time am realizing that it's not JUST me. That there's a group of people out there that are just different and it's ok to be my authentic self and not NEED to be accepted by everyone. In a weird way it's made me so much more confident to just allow myself to be who I am. An extremely loving, passionate, and alot of times "weird" guy. Lol!
Light bulb! I’m a four and now I understand why I want to ghost people when they think they have me in a slot. I feel exposed and minimized. I stay in enough shadow to keep others from doing this to me, which keeps me also feeling unknown. What a mess.
In the territory of not wanting to be pegged as a 4: I'm a 4w5 and in my experience, if someone is able to pinpoint something about me, it's pretty great, because it doesn't happen often and even if they're making fun of me, I'll feel somewhat grateful for being understood. I guess that all depends on if you're a more healthy 4 type person, but I typically enjoy when people get me pegged, as long as they actually do. Most of the time, when people think they've got something understood about me, they can be off in varying degrees and will assume something, rather than get the real story. In the extreme cases, I've lost friends due to this issue, and it's happened several times over the course of my life. It can get to the point where if i try and explain myself, I wont be believed over the person's perception of me. The challenge here and in these varying instances is to not find "comfort" in self-pity. "No one understands me!" is maybe the main "woe is me!" of 4s, but there's a lot of life found in the surrendering of trying to get people to understand. And there have been a small handful of moments where after a long period of time, the grander picture of who I am or what I was doing is understood, and it leads to greater bonds with others, and much stronger roots of trust.
"there's a lot of life found in the surrendering of trying to get people to understand" i love this quote! it reminds of me a scene in a manga (Japanese comic book) where the main character was pressed to reveal his sexuality by his bully in front of his entire class (he was gay) and chose to lie and say he was straight. later, when asked by his close friends, who knew his sexuality, why he did that, he said something like "i guess i just realized that not everyone's going to see me for me, and in that moment i thought, 'oh well' ". sometimes other people just wont understand--maybe they will later, maybe they never will, but that was never up to us in the first place and it feels so good to just let it go.
I relate to the envy and the feeling different of enneagram 4 and the needing to be honest and authentic and not having a compression that talking publicly about difficult feelings is something most people find shameful, and the search for meaning and fear of not having it, and that's where the depression comes from. I am kinda weird and I am always asking if I'm valuable. But I don't think I'm special just cuz I'm weird. I need to find something to do with that weird.
So true about people coming to us when they are dealing with painful emotions and how we will sit there and let people investigate their feelings. I never thought much of it but people share their feelings with me all the time and I guess I never realized how important that can be to a person.
It's a lot like being called "moody". A 7w8 once called me "emotionally expensive" and I, a 4w5, asked if they could please explain exactly what that meant. They were not willing to have that conversation with me. A lot of other types are so hesitant to go in depth with their thoughts and feelings. Interacting with someone like me challenges those internal landscapes they are trying to avoid. Thanks for doing such a good job describing the 4 type, really good work.
That is hilarious - “emotionally expensive”! Another way of saying....they can not “afford” your emotional world...just too deep for comfort, too exhausting. Some fours can be rather dramatic and it can be a bit much, especially for sevens.
I just stumbled upon a song titled "You Will Be Found" from a musical called "Dear Evan Hansen". Hearing what you say about 4s, I think they would resonate with this song, that associates the feeling of being alone to the fact of being unknown: > Have you ever felt like nobody was there? > Have you ever felt forgotten in the middle of nowhere? > Have you ever felt like you could disappear? > Like you could fall, and no one would hear?
Did you check out his video on the subtypes of the 9? I am a nine but I also had this deep feeling of recognition when I studied the 4. Then I discovered that the sexual (instinctual) 9 subtype can look like a 4.
I've really enjoyed all your videos on type 4's, as I am a strong type 4 with a wing 3 as well. I just wanted to say, I've watched A LOT of TH-cam videos on the Enneagram type 4 because I was hoping for not just a description of myself but useful tips on how to work through my issues. Your videos are the only videos I've found that actually give straight forward steps on how to work through my issues towards a healthier self. The fact that there is a Christian theme to it is a bonus for me, as I am a Christ follower as well. One last thing, I really appreciate that you state your type and admit that you are a 7 trying to understand and talk about a 4. So many other videos on TH-cam have people talking like they are experts and the 4 in me is like "how can you really know anything about a 4 if you're not a 4!" I really appreciate that you admit you may not grasp the nuances of the 4 because of your 7 perspective. It makes me respect your opinion more. Thanks for great videos with great content!
“4’s, when you get down to it, they want to be a part of the group, but I mean really, they really don’t want to be a part of the group.” Nailed it! “Conformity” sounds awful. Your quote you wrote down is right on for me. I think if someone doesn’t get this they might not be a 4. I’ve watched many of your videos and the only one I completely identify with, with everything you say, is type 4. I didn’t want to be a 4, but this brings clarity to what number I truly am. Thank you.
"What right do I have to be alive?" Whoa. Yes to all the questions about worth and value and purpose. Thankful for Jesus every day. 💕 Amazing job unpacking the concepts and following up with incredible insight and compassion. Super thankful for your channel! Speaking from the heart and definitely Spirit led. This was very healing 💖 Thank you.
I am just now learning of all this numbering and personality types, and I decided to take a little online test and it gave me 4w5 with some 8. I had no freaking clue what that meant, but after watching some of your videos Tom, I am sold. Somehow my entire life has been summed up, and maybe I'm not so in control as I feel. Also, whenever I hear the term Bohemian, I dream of dimly lit streets crowded with artists, musicians and weirdos and I feel like thats exactly where I'd want to be. I had no idea. This is all fascinating. I even took your advice and worked on my 3 game today, and like magic, I feel better at the end of the day. Thank you very much friend
I am a 4. I used to be very enthusiastic about decorating the house for the seasons and parties and holidays. My boyfriend made a stupid comment about that. From then on I completely turned around and got rid of all the things and didn't put much effort into birthdays etc anymore. I, for the longest time, assumed that I reacted like that cause of other issues I have with self image and things of that nature. Now I am blown away by the story of the lady you mentioned. Might need to dig a little into my feelings and memories... Seems like your content uncovered a pattern there 🤩
I feel like that at work. Other women bond, but I am the weird girl wearing the green boots and purple hair for example. I don't try to stand out, but my heart told me I had to have those green boots. I could wear the biege boots, but then I that wouldn't be me and I wouldn't be happy. I don't think 4s try to alienate themselves or stand out. It just ends up being that way.
Yes, fit in without blending in sounds really accurate. As a 4w5, I want to be seen for who I actually am and also be appreciated for my qualities. I want to feel like I belong, without having to discard my unique perspectives and lifestyle.
Possible 4 here and I’ve had a friend distance herself from me because she said I could read her soul, and she couldn’t engage because she had a hard time with being that open with others. I told her “oh I see” but I meant “when did this happen???” I realize later that the more comfortable I felt with this friend the more comfortable I was with dropping my guard and diving deep without thought. It does make me more cautious now, with who I am my true self and more aware that I may come across a bit too aggressive, perhaps. So unfortunately, that can feel “again, I’m too much.” But it’s just we are all different... and we are all at different processes with relationships and how we can manage them, to say the least.
I appreciate your care and understanding in this video. Sometimes the presentation in a video can make us feel defensive and judged. Even something that's supposed to get us sometimes doesn't. I didn't experience that with this at all, so thanks. :) This video definitely helped confirm me as a type 4. This is the first thing I've come across that explains so well *what* fours envy. What the Christmas lady did doesn't seem authentic at all. As an INFP I would never, ever do that. I would internalize that criticism--the underlying idea is grown-ups are too old to get that excited about Christmas--and it would ruin Christmas for me. I would walk around feeling like someone is looking over my shoulder and telling me it's wrong. I would shut off that enthusiasm when around the person. At the end of the day, I'd be myself, even if I had to do so privately, but it might take me time to re-convince *myself* that it's okay. When someone thinks they have me pegged, I will correct that assumption however I can. Subtly, if possible. New slogan for Type 4: We help you get to the bottom of you.
I'm not so sure that 4s morph away from being pegged as much as you let on. I would love to be pegged-it just doesn't often happen. From what I've experienced, If I am pegged on something, I've never felt the tendency to lean away from that element of me that was pegged. If I love Christmas and someone wants to make fun of it, I sure as hell am not budging on my attachment to Christmas-because if it's a part of me, and a part of my authenticity, then it stays for better or worse.
More than once, over the years, I've heard some variation from the few friends I've had, telling other people in response to their not understanding why someone is friends with me, "Well, you just have to get to know her." It seems that people have some initial negative perception, or misperception of who I am, but I've never been told exactly what that initial impression is that people tend to have of me. It has always bothered me. It's sort of like that old saying about the gossips or tabloids, "What they don't know about you, they make up." (4w5)
I thought I was a 4 when I started with enneagram tests, but I am a 1. I put some importance on originality and authenticity. And I am intuitive in MBTI (ENFJ to be precise), so I always think of the possibilities. But at the core, I search for what is right and perfect even if it is not common. If it doesn't exist, I attempt to create it. If it is common, I won't look for something different just to be unique.
I’m an INFP and I think I’m a 6w5. It’s hard because 4’s fit sooo well with INFP. They have a lot of the same things about them that go hand in hand. With that being said, I think people can mistyped their enneagram because of that too.
Thanks for your insight and honesty. It’s refreshing to hear you getting away from the stereotypes surrounding type 4s and into the reality of everyday life for the 4!
Lately I've told my driving teacher about my hobbys (so writing, reading, drawing etc.) When he started to play a music on his phone he said he thought I will like this, because it's not mainstream, not what everybody else like. I felt shamed and appreciated at the same time. I'm really secretive as a 4w5, because of this bet others see me everything else, but not this type. For me that's the meaning of being a 4. Showing from yourself a little piece and if it's not worthy of others' attention going back under my armor... And I'vent really met positive reactions, so I don't have a plan for the other way.
Your in depth explanations help so much. I thought I was a 4w5, but after researching videos, I find I'm definitely a 5w4 instead. I think you may have saved my marriage...because I am with an 8 and it was really hard to communicate why I was the distant and intense AND emotional (all at once) person. THANK YOU for your insight!
I am a Type 4, and at first I was put off by the comment about being a 7 and a, “Christian” so you know your worth and value. I know many 7 Christians who try to avoid the painful Christian lessons that the Type 4s embrace. So the came off a little arrogant. That being said each type can be prone to their own Types arrogance ie, 4s emotional arrogance, 5s intellectual arrogance... However, I am not shutting you down because your TH-cam on the High and Low was excellent and resolved my confusion about going to the low side of type 2 when stressed which has confused me for years.
Finished the video, and it was very insightful and pretty accurate of the 4s I know. Loved the two quotes you had and repeated about blending and avoidance, and found them accurate. I think as a 4, instead of moving from being pegged, I think I ask, “what do you think is ordinary, and I’ll be different,” or as a “one to one subtype”, might say, I’ll be better, or I’ll go deeper, etc. Hope you receive my comments with good intent, as a 4 that you described so well in the video, we thrive on continuous improvement and seeing what’s missing👍🏽. Looking forward to viewing all your videos, thanks for making them.
I would really love a video comparing & contrasting enneagram types 4 & 9, I've been struggling to determine which of the two types I really am. I feel like I'm probably a 9 but resonate so strongly with type 4 I really can't be sure...
21:08 A lot of people are afraid of philosophy & delving into their psyches, kinda like the concept of looking into "what's inside room 101?" from 1984.
I personally don’t feel I try hard to be different. It’s not like I go out of my way not to listen to popular music or to watch popular shows on television I just genuinely don’t like
I believe I'm a 4. So let me try to explain what's going on inside about that desire to be part of a group without really wanting to blend in : I really want to blend in the group, but when the mayonnaise is starting to take (the group coheres and starts to live as one) I'm feeling a growing terror of disolving in, of losing myself as I'm very permeable to emotions. My authenticity and identity are at stake : I know I'm capable to comply to the emotions of a group in order not to break the harmony. If that happens, I die. So I retreat as soon as I feel the mayonnaise is taking.
4’s WANT TO FIT IN WITHOUT BLENDING IN. 15:29 “Ooo. I think that’s pretty good. I might need to write that down. Actually.. I think I will write that down” *stops the flow of convo to write that down* 😂🤣 THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE
I've seen a few of your videos and I just want you to know that I think you're really smart, good with words, and I'm grateful for your unique perspective to the Enneagram.
Being integrated 4w5, I have to say I love the 4's! Thank you 4's for staying true too yourself! not selling out! for the deep talks! for the healing! for the real music! being kind! being humbly passionate! for the perfect one line jokes! for being low-key beautiful! I wish that you have everything your heart truly desires. I will always cherish 4's. Live that dream life! xoxo
17:12- Definitely not asking for permission. It's more like- "I'm wearing my flair, I don't have a choice, it's who I am, deal with it and actually, love it like I know you do." 20:49- Remember that growing up in the 50's, 60's, 70's, and even 80's, as a 4, we were raised at a time where showing emotions was not encouraged if they were not happy or positive so being shamed or judged every time we were sad has made it impossible to let those emotions out. It's so strange to hear someone describe my nature especially to hear what it would be like for me had I not been so stifled and forced into playing a role so that everyone else could be okay. I feel you are so spot on for the most part and it's a little unnerving. Very interesting...
This part was hilarious and a slap on our faces.. And you're right btw.. We want to be part of the group, but we don't really want to be part of the group.. Hahaha gosh, lots of healing to be done
Thank you so much for the comprehensive videos. Sometimes you need someone on the outside looking in to provide excellent insight. I can also relate to being a Christian and how much peace that has brought me in my life. I promise I am not preaching, but I have struggled tremendously with self-worth issues and it truly resonated with me when you said that. -INFJ Type 4w5
I seem to be a 4 wing 5, I don’t feel envious, as I actually love being me it’s more sadness even some shame society doesn’t easily accept me being me. Envy? I don’t understand that…I’d have to want to be different than I actually am. Maybe envious I don’t live in a society that easily accepts authenticity sounds more appropriate, for me. You are spot on with the pride..I had to work through that I am 47 and have spent 15 years working on myself internally-I’d say when I was younger these attributes applied more. You have a really great understanding of me, great video!
The thing with the ennegram 4 and envy is that sometimes its completely flipped. Other people can be envious of us because they feel like we have the luxury to exhude and ensue uniquely instead of blend in and be tossed about by luck and whims of other people who they assume think of them primally and choose the fittest of the bunch. Sometimes its a disgust or disdain for our attitudes and beings believeing that we dont deserve to stand out and should just blend in so we are nonthreatening and "playing fair on the playing field" In other words people unconciously compete with us to be picked for opportunities.
When you said that it may not be that we're trying to avoid you, it may be that we're trying to avoid the things you're not afraid to avoid...it really hit home for me. That's something i have experienced so often and didn't know how to respond to. Still don't actually.
Lol glad you had the courage to dive into the Type 4...as foreign and odd as this type probably is to you.I am a 4w5 married for 42 years to a 7w8! Blood sweat and tears! Lol!!
I am pretty sure I'm a 4, not long ago some random thought reminded me of some lyrics: "As sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti" Then I'm on to another song, about Love, Hope, and Despair. Sometimes I want neither to blend in nor fit in, like a bag of rocks in a blender. Turn it inside out, put my tender heart in a blender. But other times, I use blending in to my advantage. When I feel no one needs to notice me. Others avoid the things I'm not afraid to avoid - 21:16 like when other kids would play hide and seek, I'd like to stay hidden in the shadows and not even know everyone else was done playing. It's no fun if they don't approach the darkness to find me. Whatever.
I love 4’s although I’m 5 I can understand them. I think I’m 5w4 because sometimes I don’t really need love and all that, I just need understanding and I just want someone to listen to my thoughts and information I collected(lol)
I’m a 4. It’s the most amazingly painful way to live life! Wouldn’t have it any other way despite the fact that I’d do anything to NOT be so consumed by my heart and my mind. I love it. I hate it. It’s the best. It’s the worst. Ahhh the life of a 4.
I liked the part about being in the shame group... where does my worth and value come from? As a four, I do struggle with this. However I do know that my worth and value come from God. 🤍 but - again, as a four, it’s a struggle and I constantly remind myself. It’s hard when you feel like something is always missing and I’m always seeking personal significance.
I think as a 4, once people expect certain things from us we no longer feel as though it’s authentic, it almost feels tainted because someone has labeled and defined something about us, when I feel as though we can’t be “defined”. but that things are always changing. And it also makes me feel like I then need to always maintain that expectation.
So spot on! Comparing myself to others- thinking everyone is better at anything than I am! Such a sucky habit. Thanks for making me think that this is just a mindset and not necessarily truth! (Such a 4 response 🤪)
Yes, i wanted to fit in, to the degree of feeling connected that from my perspective meanted that i am seen for who i really am. Being appriciated for my specialty and uniqueness, that is my integrity, kindness, understanding others deeply, able to see things trough there eyes wich makes them to feel comfortable to be who they are when they are around me. Me having a great level of uudersanding people having different ways of seeing things becsuse of there own unique expieriences, therefor my openmindedness. Hoping they would truly see that in me. But on the other hand not to close! Being to close connected would then be sufficating for me in a short period of time. I than would feel getting disapointed because in a short period of time i would feel bored. In truth it was me being scared of real connection. A deep old pattern and belief that no one ever truly sees me and never understands me. The point was i was projecting my own self perception on to others. I fact couldnt truly see and understand myself back than. Not reakuzing i was doing that.
I can conform to a certain degree but not to the point of feeling like I'm losing myself. I agree with being willing to fit in without blending, everyone is unique.
If i'm a 4 is there any way for me to ever feel like I actually fit in anywhere or am i pretty much doomed to always feel like i'm in a group of people that fit in with each other and i'm the weird one that if they really knew me they wouldn't like me or something???
Hi Tom! I’ve known I’m a 4 for years now, but I’ve had time to psychoanalize myself all over again this pandemic. And I’ve realized something quite odd about me. As you said, my downfall is envy, but not only have i noticed i get jealous of others success, I also get jealous of others pain and suffering. I feel if I don’t suffer, I have no identity. But then when I suffer, I envy those who don’t. Is this something 4s go through or is it only me???
i think im a 4, if i can consider this enneagram paradigm trustworthy, and in the case that i am a 4, i feel like finding this information out is kind of a missing puzzle for me. especially the part where 4s consider feelings defining them, because now i can pinpoint an unwanted feeling and watch it fade away, so thank you for that.
@@AndresHidalgo but in some cases, like mine, subtypes isnt even the problem. Because there's not 4 subtype that resembles 6. The problem is that discovering your type can take a lot of time and people rush too much. It's okay to not find it right away
@@nathmendes24 totally!! I haven't found mine either haha. But 4 and 6 are really similar actually!! I'm between those numbers! 6 is very intense and feel as well. Also they are reactive and express their feelings openly. Let's just take our time. It's not a race. It's a journey to heal :)
@@AndresHidalgo exactly! they're too similar even if the reasons are so different. "It's not a race, it's a journey to heal" ... Exactly what i needed to hear C:
Thanks, Dr. Tom. This was really good info. I just got off the phone with a friend who is a 4. She's a very caring person who volunteers for a number of causes and has a big heart. However, she is a whiner. In this time of COVID-19, when she ought to be grateful for her very good health and excellent financial status, my friend is moping around because she cannot travel and is limited because of social distancing. I emphasized that we are all in the same boat, and we should be grateful for what we DO have in a challenging situation. Keep up the excellent insight!
slight correction, Doctor Tom sorry, I initially put Mister before I saw your channel name I don't hate being pegged. I hate being put in a box that doesn't fit me. I hate getting a label slapped on me as if that's all I am, when I'm a lot more than that. Sometimes the label shows I'm misunderstood, and I hate it because of that.
Me my first day of HS years ago, “I’m going to wear this baggy ugly t-shirt and jeans as a statement to fight against the stupidity of superficial fashion peer pressure.”
2 do feel they fit in everywhere perfectly. what they feel is people always OWE them, people are always in debt to them. Since they have the proudness to think they always have everythg they need. The arrongance to think others always have less than them
am a 4 preservation, the most alike to 1s. & me specifically, I was always very alike to a 1 but being a 4. my strongest wind is 5. Even though, O had a lot of 1, my 2 was very noticeable too.
I am Casper the friendly ghost. I want to mingle and see what you see. I want to be there but I don’t want to be a member of the gang/group. I do however want acknowledgment and appreciation as a guest:)
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"Want to fit in without blending in" - Perfect description!!! Thank you for this! (from a 4w5)
Fellow 4w5. This really is a perfect description.
4 fit .9 blend. 2 connect
16:20 I tend to feel outside the group as a 6
Yep. 4w5 sp here. I agree with you completely. 👍
Everyone should be able to fit in/ belong without blending in. Instead of a group being a melting pot where people lose their individuality, a group should celebrate the diversity that exists inside their group.
I wonder how many other 4’s have been utterly crushed in childhood by the “ONEs” in their lives demanding they be PERFECT, or the “EIGHTS” in their lives who utterly wanted to control them. No wonder some of us 4’s are so effed up.
💯
15:33 “4s want to fit in without having to blend in” 💡
20:58 “it may not be we’re trying to avoid you but we’re trying to avoid the things you aren’t afraid to avoid” 💡
24:37 “I think 4s hate being pegged” 💡
I love being a 4 but dang it’s exhausting. Lol so much inner work and feeling and thinking. 😅 (4 w 5 ).
indeeeddddddddd ahahhaa
Lol HOW do you like being a 4? I hate it
As a 4, I consider "emotional" and "sensitive" to be compliments, not insults!
Also, when we wear (literally or metaphorically) symbols of our uniqueness, I don't think we're asking for permission not to fit in. We either do it because it makes us feel good and we don't care what others think, or we're saying "I know I'm not going to fit in. Will you love me anyway?"
Great point.
Dewdrop Flame I agree with you , I don’t seek permission not to fit👍🏽
As a 99% 4.. Exactly, "fit in with out blending in". Desire a sense of belonging but not be a sheep in the heard. Belong to a loving group & not feeling excluded, while still having individuality. We don't want to be put in a box, because we want the attention of being understood.
Got it, thanks for sharing...
"You enjoy connecting with people on the basis of shared authentic thoughts and emotions. And it is important that you feel understood." - I have never felt more understood or seen 😅
!! me too
Don't know why I'm dumping this here, but I really feel like the enneagram has had an almost life changing impact on me. All this time I've just been going through life so frustrated that I felt like I was just perpetually misunderstood, and so alienated and I just for the first time am realizing that it's not JUST me. That there's a group of people out there that are just different and it's ok to be my authentic self and not NEED to be accepted by everyone. In a weird way it's made me so much more confident to just allow myself to be who I am. An extremely loving, passionate, and alot of times "weird" guy. Lol!
Samesies.
Felt the exact same way :)
Yeyy!! Same here. Good luck and may every day feel exciding as the day you realized that hehe.
Your comment gave me so much hope! I’m still in a place of discomfort with myself but seeing other 4s gain confidence keeps me motivated.
It saved my life from an endless depression
You're wonderfully articulate. A rare breed really.
Thanks!
Light bulb! I’m a four and now I understand why I want to ghost people when they think they have me in a slot. I feel exposed and minimized. I stay in enough shadow to keep others from doing this to me, which keeps me also feeling unknown. What a mess.
They want to be part of the group, but when it gets down to it they don’t want to be part of the group. 💯🙌🏼
In the territory of not wanting to be pegged as a 4: I'm a 4w5 and in my experience, if someone is able to pinpoint something about me, it's pretty great, because it doesn't happen often and even if they're making fun of me, I'll feel somewhat grateful for being understood. I guess that all depends on if you're a more healthy 4 type person, but I typically enjoy when people get me pegged, as long as they actually do. Most of the time, when people think they've got something understood about me, they can be off in varying degrees and will assume something, rather than get the real story. In the extreme cases, I've lost friends due to this issue, and it's happened several times over the course of my life. It can get to the point where if i try and explain myself, I wont be believed over the person's perception of me. The challenge here and in these varying instances is to not find "comfort" in self-pity. "No one understands me!" is maybe the main "woe is me!" of 4s, but there's a lot of life found in the surrendering of trying to get people to understand. And there have been a small handful of moments where after a long period of time, the grander picture of who I am or what I was doing is understood, and it leads to greater bonds with others, and much stronger roots of trust.
thanks for the insight
"there's a lot of life found in the surrendering of trying to get people to understand" i love this quote! it reminds of me a scene in a manga (Japanese comic book) where the main character was pressed to reveal his sexuality by his bully in front of his entire class (he was gay) and chose to lie and say he was straight. later, when asked by his close friends, who knew his sexuality, why he did that, he said something like "i guess i just realized that not everyone's going to see me for me, and in that moment i thought, 'oh well' ". sometimes other people just wont understand--maybe they will later, maybe they never will, but that was never up to us in the first place and it feels so good to just let it go.
I relate to the envy and the feeling different of enneagram 4 and the needing to be honest and authentic and not having a compression that talking publicly about difficult feelings is something most people find shameful, and the search for meaning and fear of not having it, and that's where the depression comes from. I am kinda weird and I am always asking if I'm valuable. But I don't think I'm special just cuz I'm weird. I need to find something to do with that weird.
Tom, I' ve seen videos about type4 that were just cliché. Yours is very respectful and deep.
I love your work
So true about people coming to us when they are dealing with painful emotions and how we will sit there and let people investigate their feelings. I never thought much of it but people share their feelings with me all the time and I guess I never realized how important that can be to a person.
It's a lot like being called "moody". A 7w8 once called me "emotionally expensive" and I, a 4w5, asked if they could please explain exactly what that meant. They were not willing to have that conversation with me. A lot of other types are so hesitant to go in depth with their thoughts and feelings. Interacting with someone like me challenges those internal landscapes they are trying to avoid. Thanks for doing such a good job describing the 4 type, really good work.
That is hilarious - “emotionally expensive”! Another way of saying....they can not “afford” your emotional world...just too deep for comfort, too exhausting. Some fours can be rather dramatic and it can be a bit much, especially for sevens.
Exactly. People are in massive hiding of the human condition at large.
7w8 probably see you as weak so they don’t interact or listen to you
“What right do you have to be alive?” Wow, nail on the head. 😬
Yes, I both want to be in the group, but I really don't. I want to be special and rely on myself. (4w3). Thanks for the video.
Exactly!!!!!
I just stumbled upon a song titled "You Will Be Found" from a musical called "Dear Evan Hansen".
Hearing what you say about 4s, I think they would resonate with this song, that associates the feeling of being alone to the fact of being unknown:
> Have you ever felt like nobody was there?
> Have you ever felt forgotten in the middle of nowhere?
> Have you ever felt like you could disappear?
> Like you could fall, and no one would hear?
4s want to fit in without having to blend in - this spoke to me on such a DEEP level! Which is why I’m struggling with accepting that I’m a 9!
Did you check out his video on the subtypes of the 9? I am a nine but I also had this deep feeling of recognition when I studied the 4. Then I discovered that the sexual (instinctual) 9 subtype can look like a 4.
I've really enjoyed all your videos on type 4's, as I am a strong type 4 with a wing 3 as well. I just wanted to say, I've watched A LOT of TH-cam videos on the Enneagram type 4 because I was hoping for not just a description of myself but useful tips on how to work through my issues. Your videos are the only videos I've found that actually give straight forward steps on how to work through my issues towards a healthier self. The fact that there is a Christian theme to it is a bonus for me, as I am a Christ follower as well. One last thing, I really appreciate that you state your type and admit that you are a 7 trying to understand and talk about a 4. So many other videos on TH-cam have people talking like they are experts and the 4 in me is like "how can you really know anything about a 4 if you're not a 4!" I really appreciate that you admit you may not grasp the nuances of the 4 because of your 7 perspective. It makes me respect your opinion more. Thanks for great videos with great content!
Thank you so much. I am so glad you found my channel.
"Nines shove EVERYTHING down." This made me laugh.
I'm so 4 that even when I was watching this video, I got emotional and said: Ow God this is so me! :))
“4’s, when you get down to it, they want to be a part of the group, but I mean really, they really don’t want to be a part of the group.” Nailed it! “Conformity” sounds awful. Your quote you wrote down is right on for me. I think if someone doesn’t get this they might not be a 4. I’ve watched many of your videos and the only one I completely identify with, with everything you say, is type 4. I didn’t want to be a 4, but this brings clarity to what number I truly am. Thank you.
“What right do I have to be alive...what is my purpose” 🔥
Lovely right 😍
As a 4, I can tell you our struggle with self-worth is SOOOOOOOO real and crippling sometimes.
"What right do I have to be alive?" Whoa. Yes to all the questions about worth and value and purpose. Thankful for Jesus every day. 💕 Amazing job unpacking the concepts and following up with incredible insight and compassion. Super thankful for your channel! Speaking from the heart and definitely Spirit led. This was very healing 💖 Thank you.
Precisely, It's like a reminder every morning that I have to answer that question. I don't have a choice to ignore it.
I am just now learning of all this numbering and personality types, and I decided to take a little online test and it gave me 4w5 with some 8. I had no freaking clue what that meant, but after watching some of your videos Tom, I am sold. Somehow my entire life has been summed up, and maybe I'm not so in control as I feel. Also, whenever I hear the term Bohemian, I dream of dimly lit streets crowded with artists, musicians and weirdos and I feel like thats exactly where I'd want to be. I had no idea. This is all fascinating. I even took your advice and worked on my 3 game today, and like magic, I feel better at the end of the day. Thank you very much friend
I am a 4. I used to be very enthusiastic about decorating the house for the seasons and parties and holidays.
My boyfriend made a stupid comment about that.
From then on I completely turned around and got rid of all the things and didn't put much effort into birthdays etc anymore.
I, for the longest time, assumed that I reacted like that cause of other issues I have with self image and things of that nature.
Now I am blown away by the story of the lady you mentioned.
Might need to dig a little into my feelings and memories... Seems like your content uncovered a pattern there 🤩
Best description and discussion of a 4 I've ever heard. Great help. Thank you!
Thanks for your comment. I am so glad that this video was helpful to you.
I feel like that at work. Other women bond, but I am the weird girl wearing the green boots and purple hair for example. I don't try to stand out, but my heart told me I had to have those green boots. I could wear the biege boots, but then I that wouldn't be me and I wouldn't be happy. I don't think 4s try to alienate themselves or stand out. It just ends up being that way.
Yes, fit in without blending in sounds really accurate. As a 4w5, I want to be seen for who I actually am and also be appreciated for my qualities. I want to feel like I belong, without having to discard my unique perspectives and lifestyle.
Possible 4 here and I’ve had a friend distance herself from me because she said I could read her soul, and she couldn’t engage because she had a hard time with being that open with others. I told her “oh I see” but I meant “when did this happen???” I realize later that the more comfortable I felt with this friend the more comfortable I was with dropping my guard and diving deep without thought. It does make me more cautious now, with who I am my true self and more aware that I may come across a bit too aggressive, perhaps. So unfortunately, that can feel “again, I’m too much.” But it’s just we are all different... and we are all at different processes with relationships and how we can manage them, to say the least.
I appreciate your care and understanding in this video. Sometimes the presentation in a video can make us feel defensive and judged. Even something that's supposed to get us sometimes doesn't. I didn't experience that with this at all, so thanks. :) This video definitely helped confirm me as a type 4. This is the first thing I've come across that explains so well *what* fours envy.
What the Christmas lady did doesn't seem authentic at all. As an INFP I would never, ever do that. I would internalize that criticism--the underlying idea is grown-ups are too old to get that excited about Christmas--and it would ruin Christmas for me. I would walk around feeling like someone is looking over my shoulder and telling me it's wrong. I would shut off that enthusiasm when around the person. At the end of the day, I'd be myself, even if I had to do so privately, but it might take me time to re-convince *myself* that it's okay. When someone thinks they have me pegged, I will correct that assumption however I can. Subtly, if possible.
New slogan for Type 4: We help you get to the bottom of you.
Thanks for sharing...good stuff.
I'm not so sure that 4s morph away from being pegged as much as you let on. I would love to be pegged-it just doesn't often happen. From what I've experienced, If I am pegged on something, I've never felt the tendency to lean away from that element of me that was pegged. If I love Christmas and someone wants to make fun of it, I sure as hell am not budging on my attachment to Christmas-because if it's a part of me, and a part of my authenticity, then it stays for better or worse.
More than once, over the years, I've heard some variation from the few friends I've had, telling other people in response to their not understanding why someone is friends with me, "Well, you just have to get to know her." It seems that people have some initial negative perception, or misperception of who I am, but I've never been told exactly what that initial impression is that people tend to have of me. It has always bothered me. It's sort of like that old saying about the gossips or tabloids, "What they don't know about you, they make up." (4w5)
I thought I was a 4 when I started with enneagram tests, but I am a 1. I put some importance on originality and authenticity. And I am intuitive in MBTI (ENFJ to be precise), so I always think of the possibilities. But at the core, I search for what is right and perfect even if it is not common. If it doesn't exist, I attempt to create it. If it is common, I won't look for something different just to be unique.
I’m an INFP and I think I’m a 6w5. It’s hard because 4’s fit sooo well with INFP. They have a lot of the same things about them that go hand in hand. With that being said, I think people can mistyped their enneagram because of that too.
Thanks for your insight and honesty. It’s refreshing to hear you getting away from the stereotypes surrounding type 4s and into the reality of everyday life for the 4!
Lately I've told my driving teacher about my hobbys (so writing, reading, drawing etc.) When he started to play a music on his phone he said he thought I will like this, because it's not mainstream, not what everybody else like. I felt shamed and appreciated at the same time. I'm really secretive as a 4w5, because of this bet others see me everything else, but not this type. For me that's the meaning of being a 4. Showing from yourself a little piece and if it's not worthy of others' attention going back under my armor... And I'vent really met positive reactions, so I don't have a plan for the other way.
Your in depth explanations help so much. I thought I was a 4w5, but after researching videos, I find I'm definitely a 5w4 instead. I think you may have saved my marriage...because I am with an 8 and it was really hard to communicate why I was the distant and intense AND emotional (all at once) person. THANK YOU for your insight!
I am a Type 4, and at first I was put off by the comment about being a 7 and a, “Christian” so you know your worth and value. I know many 7 Christians who try to avoid the painful Christian lessons that the Type 4s embrace. So the came off a little arrogant. That being said each type can be prone to their own Types arrogance ie, 4s emotional arrogance, 5s intellectual arrogance...
However, I am not shutting you down because your TH-cam on the High and Low was excellent and resolved my confusion about going to the low side of type 2 when stressed which has confused me for years.
Thanks for the insight. We all are continuing to grow.
Finished the video, and it was very insightful and pretty accurate of the 4s I know. Loved the two quotes you had and repeated about blending and avoidance, and found them accurate. I think as a 4, instead of moving from being pegged, I think I ask, “what do you think is ordinary, and I’ll be different,” or as a “one to one subtype”, might say, I’ll be better, or I’ll go deeper, etc.
Hope you receive my comments with good intent, as a 4 that you described so well in the video, we thrive on continuous improvement and seeing what’s missing👍🏽. Looking forward to viewing all your videos, thanks for making them.
I would really love a video comparing & contrasting enneagram types 4 & 9, I've been struggling to determine which of the two types I really am. I feel like I'm probably a 9 but resonate so strongly with type 4 I really can't be sure...
9 with a 4 fix probably :)
21:08 A lot of people are afraid of philosophy & delving into their psyches, kinda like the concept of looking into "what's inside room 101?" from 1984.
ayyyyy u tht dude in the attachment styles Discord ? i’m also in tht group chat but if i’m mistaken…
Yep! :)
Wow people may not be avoiding us but avoiding the things we are not trying to avoid! That’s good! 😳
I personally don’t feel I try hard to be different. It’s not like I go out of my way not to listen to popular music or to watch popular shows on television I just genuinely don’t like
I believe I'm a 4. So let me try to explain what's going on inside about that desire to be part of a group without really wanting to blend in : I really want to blend in the group, but when the mayonnaise is starting to take (the group coheres and starts to live as one) I'm feeling a growing terror of disolving in, of losing myself as I'm very permeable to emotions. My authenticity and identity are at stake : I know I'm capable to comply to the emotions of a group in order not to break the harmony. If that happens, I die. So I retreat as soon as I feel the mayonnaise is taking.
4’s WANT TO FIT IN WITHOUT BLENDING IN. 15:29
“Ooo. I think that’s pretty good. I might need to write that down. Actually.. I think I will write that down” *stops the flow of convo to write that down*
😂🤣
THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE
I've seen a few of your videos and I just want you to know that I think you're really smart, good with words, and I'm grateful for your unique perspective to the Enneagram.
"We need each person on the team."
Being integrated 4w5, I have to say I love the 4's! Thank you 4's for staying true too yourself! not selling out! for the deep talks! for the healing! for the real music! being kind! being humbly passionate! for the perfect one line jokes! for being low-key beautiful! I wish that you have everything your heart truly desires. I will always cherish 4's. Live that dream life! xoxo
Really nailed me on this. You clearly are well researched!
17:12- Definitely not asking for permission. It's more like- "I'm wearing my flair, I don't have a choice, it's who I am, deal with it and actually, love it like I know you do." 20:49- Remember that growing up in the 50's, 60's, 70's, and even 80's, as a 4, we were raised at a time where showing emotions was not encouraged if they were not happy or positive so being shamed or judged every time we were sad has made it impossible to let those emotions out. It's so strange to hear someone describe my nature especially to hear what it would be like for me had I not been so stifled and forced into playing a role so that everyone else could be okay. I feel you are so spot on for the most part and it's a little unnerving. Very interesting...
This part was hilarious and a slap on our faces.. And you're right btw.. We want to be part of the group, but we don't really want to be part of the group.. Hahaha gosh, lots of healing to be done
Thank you so much for the comprehensive videos. Sometimes you need someone on the outside looking in to provide excellent insight. I can also relate to being a Christian and how much peace that has brought me in my life. I promise I am not preaching, but I have struggled tremendously with self-worth issues and it truly resonated with me when you said that.
-INFJ Type 4w5
I seem to be a 4 wing 5, I don’t feel envious, as I actually love being me it’s more sadness even some shame society doesn’t easily accept me being me.
Envy? I don’t understand that…I’d have to want to be different than I actually am. Maybe envious I don’t live in a society that easily accepts authenticity sounds more appropriate, for me. You are spot on with the pride..I had to work through that
I am 47 and have spent 15 years working on myself internally-I’d say when I was younger these attributes applied more.
You have a really great understanding of me, great video!
Thank you so much for sharing your experience and thoughts! It's amazing to hear how you've embraced who you are despite societal challenges.
"What right do I have to be alive"... fuck, that hit home
I’m always searching for my purpose. I take career tests constantly.
You do an accurate, valuable and full of affection job with fours. I appreciate it a lot. Thank you.
Tom: You are appreciated! Keeping it REAL!
The thing with the ennegram 4 and envy is that sometimes its completely flipped. Other people can be envious of us because they feel like we have the luxury to exhude and ensue uniquely instead of blend in and be tossed about by luck and whims of other people who they assume think of them primally and choose the fittest of the bunch.
Sometimes its a disgust or disdain for our attitudes and beings believeing that we dont deserve to stand out and should just blend in so we are nonthreatening and "playing fair on the playing field"
In other words people unconciously compete with us to be picked for opportunities.
Yes, indeed that is very good and you have a great way of detailing feelings from the perspective of 4s (coming from 4w5)
Glad to help.
When you said that it may not be that we're trying to avoid you, it may be that we're trying to avoid the things you're not afraid to avoid...it really hit home for me. That's something i have experienced so often and didn't know how to respond to. Still don't actually.
Lol glad you had the courage to dive into the Type 4...as foreign and odd as this type probably is to you.I am a 4w5 married for 42 years to a 7w8! Blood sweat and tears! Lol!!
“You think you know who I am? Watch me morph away from that!”
4w5 sp here. I can’t deny it! That’s EXACTLY how I am. 😂
I'm a 1, watching this video after the Willingly Go to Your "Stress" Number video, to get some tips on how to do that!
I am pretty sure I'm a 4, not long ago some random thought reminded me of some lyrics:
"As sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti"
Then I'm on to another song,
about Love, Hope, and Despair.
Sometimes I want neither to blend in nor fit in,
like a bag of rocks in a blender.
Turn it inside out, put my tender heart in a blender.
But other times, I use blending in to my advantage.
When I feel no one needs to notice me.
Others avoid the things I'm not afraid to avoid - 21:16
like when other kids would play hide and seek,
I'd like to stay hidden in the shadows and not even know everyone else was done playing.
It's no fun if they don't approach the darkness to find me.
Whatever.
I love 4’s although I’m 5 I can understand them. I think I’m 5w4 because sometimes I don’t really need love and all that, I just need understanding and I just want someone to listen to my thoughts and information I collected(lol)
So many quoteable gems dropped! #4 #BARS
I’m a 4. It’s the most amazingly painful way to live life! Wouldn’t have it any other way despite the fact that I’d do anything to NOT be so consumed by my heart and my mind. I love it. I hate it. It’s the best. It’s the worst. Ahhh the life of a 4.
I liked the part about being in the shame group... where does my worth and value come from? As a four, I do struggle with this. However I do know that my worth and value come from God. 🤍 but - again, as a four, it’s a struggle and I constantly remind myself. It’s hard when you feel like something is always missing and I’m always seeking personal significance.
I think as a 4, once people expect certain things from us we no longer feel as though it’s authentic, it almost feels tainted because someone has labeled and defined something about us, when I feel as though we can’t be “defined”. but that things are always changing. And it also makes me feel like I then need to always maintain that expectation.
You have such a wonderful understanding of these. So glad I've found your channel. :)
So spot on! Comparing myself to others- thinking everyone is better at anything than I am! Such a sucky habit. Thanks for making me think that this is just a mindset and not necessarily truth! (Such a 4 response 🤪)
Yes, i wanted to fit in, to the degree of feeling connected that from my perspective meanted that i am seen for who i really am. Being appriciated for my specialty and uniqueness, that is my integrity, kindness, understanding others deeply, able to see things trough there eyes wich makes them to feel comfortable to be who they are when they are around me. Me having a great level of uudersanding people having different ways of seeing things becsuse of there own unique expieriences, therefor my openmindedness. Hoping they would truly see that in me. But on the other hand not to close! Being to close connected would then be sufficating for me in a short period of time. I than would feel getting disapointed because in a short period of time i would feel bored. In truth it was me being scared of real connection. A deep old pattern and belief that no one ever truly sees me and never understands me. The point was i was projecting my own self perception on to others. I fact couldnt truly see and understand myself back than. Not reakuzing i was doing that.
I’m totally a core 4 thanks for detailed descriptions
IM SCREAMINGG
IM A TYPE 4 AND I ALWAYS GOT CALLED OUT IN 11TH GRADE FOR WEARING MAGENTA FLOWERS IN MY HAIR TO SCHOOL!!😭😭
I can conform to a certain degree but not to the point of feeling like I'm losing myself. I agree with being willing to fit in without blending, everyone is unique.
Right.
I love when you talk about E4. You are so right with your interpretations💥💕👍👍👍💗😊
Glad you think so!
2w1 ENFJ here with the same passion for standing out (in terms of individuality) as 4s. I think it's why so many of my friends are 4s or INFPs.
uggggghhhh every day i feel the lack
thanks for sharing...
to be part of the group without having to make myself fade out- that would be great
It might not be me but the things I’m not afraid to avoid. BOOM
Not afraid not to avoid!
If i'm a 4 is there any way for me to ever feel like I actually fit in anywhere or am i pretty much doomed to always feel like i'm in a group of people that fit in with each other and i'm the weird one that if they really knew me they wouldn't like me or something???
I can relate to everything your saying about 4’s. Spot on mate 👏
Question: Is there a development process with enneagrams? I definitely was 9 as a child. After much anger work I am probably more a 4.
Hi Tom! I’ve known I’m a 4 for years now, but I’ve had time to psychoanalize myself all over again this pandemic. And I’ve realized something quite odd about me. As you said, my downfall is envy, but not only have i noticed i get jealous of others success, I also get jealous of others pain and suffering. I feel if I don’t suffer, I have no identity. But then when I suffer, I envy those who don’t.
Is this something 4s go through or is it only me???
Man, oh, man. Watching this absolutely resonated with me. Both in the best possible way and in those #shotsFired moments lol
Great.
Teary watching this insight
i think im a 4, if i can consider this enneagram paradigm trustworthy, and in the case that i am a 4, i feel like finding this information out is kind of a missing puzzle for me. especially the part where 4s consider feelings defining them, because now i can pinpoint an unwanted feeling and watch it fade away, so thank you for that.
I have such a hard time figuring out my type. Because I can relate to a 4, but also to an 8. And they’re so opposite I don’t know how this works 😬
I have the same problem but with 4 vs 6. Don't worry tho, figuring out your soul patterns is never easy
check the subtypes. 4sx type resembles an 8 a lot.
Motivations are the most important thing to determine your number
@@AndresHidalgo but in some cases, like mine, subtypes isnt even the problem. Because there's not 4 subtype that resembles 6. The problem is that discovering your type can take a lot of time and people rush too much. It's okay to not find it right away
@@nathmendes24 totally!! I haven't found mine either haha.
But 4 and 6 are really similar actually!! I'm between those numbers! 6 is very intense and feel as well. Also they are reactive and express their feelings openly.
Let's just take our time. It's not a race. It's a journey to heal :)
@@AndresHidalgo exactly! they're too similar even if the reasons are so different. "It's not a race, it's a journey to heal" ... Exactly what i needed to hear C:
Thanks, Dr. Tom. This was really good info. I just got off the phone with a friend who is a 4. She's a very caring person who volunteers for a number of causes and has a big heart. However, she is a whiner. In this time of COVID-19, when she ought to be grateful for her very good health and excellent financial status, my friend is moping around because she cannot travel and is limited because of social distancing. I emphasized that we are all in the same boat, and we should be grateful for what we DO have in a challenging situation. Keep up the excellent insight!
Right.
You summed it up very well. (4w5)
slight correction, Doctor Tom
sorry, I initially put Mister before I saw your channel name
I don't hate being pegged. I hate being put in a box that doesn't fit me. I hate getting a label slapped on me as if that's all I am, when I'm a lot more than that. Sometimes the label shows I'm misunderstood, and I hate it because of that.
Me my first day of HS years ago, “I’m going to wear this baggy ugly t-shirt and jeans as a statement to fight against the stupidity of superficial fashion peer pressure.”
Oh my lord, I thought I was a 6, a 9, a 7, and now I'm sure that I'm a 4. 4 hits the hardest though, I'm ashamed of being ashamed.
2 do feel they fit in everywhere perfectly. what they feel is people always OWE them, people are always in debt to them. Since they have the proudness to think they always have everythg they need. The arrongance to think others always have less than them
am a 4 preservation, the most alike to 1s. & me specifically, I was always very alike to a 1 but being a 4. my strongest wind is 5. Even though, O had a lot of 1, my 2 was very noticeable too.
I feel like people hold it against me that I don't fear expressing what they do fear expressing. :/
I'm new to this.. I tested a type 4 with balanced wings. How is it that I have balanced wings? My friend said she hasn't ever seen that before.
I am Casper the friendly ghost. I want to mingle and see what you see. I want to be there but I don’t want to be a member of the gang/group. I do however want acknowledgment and appreciation as a guest:)