I didn't realize either until I clicked on this video. I think that's the true magic. You're enjoying the song to much to really care about the structure.
@@SubtleHawk That's not the chorus; that's just the part where they say the title of the song. The chorus is the "Strangers...waiting..." part (the "Don't stop...believing" part is the verse instrumentation with the chorus vocal melody). #weirdhillsiwilldieon
This says a lot about human nature, the way anticipation adds so much to being rewarded with stimuli. Anticipating pleasure is almost better than getting it.
As an old (60 y.o.a.) music teacher I really like you young guys YouTubing. You do a really good job. Our students (and my self!) learn a lot. Hope some day that you shall not rely your income on commercials or product placement. Your wise words, adorable focus on the topic, high skills, your enthusiasm and commitment to education are far to big to live on premises like that. I really envy your skills when it comes to online learning. Thumbs up and love from Denmark 😀❤️
The way Tiny Dancer is used in the film Almost Famous is incredible. It's played after a row of some sort on the tour bus where everyone is sitting in tense silence. The song acts like a healing balm, eventually breaking everyone's bad mood as they all end up swaying and singing along.
@KvAT Whats odd was that it was released as a single. There are plenty of long prog rock songs, or shorter songs tied together like the back half of abbey road. But songs like Great King Rat and Black Queen were not singles
Elton definitely understands the idea of building up to the chorus. I read a concert review where the reviewer said he could feel the audience lean forward in anticipation when he came up to the chorus of "Don't Let the Sun Go Down On Me."
Great example. And the great thing about that song is both the hook of the acoustic guitar part and the repeated "You got a fast car..." motif. It's a way catchy song even before the chorus come in.
@@kingzippythethird Funny you should mention that, 'cos I remember seeing the video to 'Losing My Religion' when it first came out and thinking:"what a shame... R.E.M. were just starting to build some momentum and now they release this meandering track with no hooks, no chorus, no nothing." The second time I heard it, I thought -- "okay this song does have something going for it after all. It's not bad". By the third time I heard it, I got it, and I was impressed by their boldness to release such an intelligent single that didn't pander to convention. Now, of course, I love the track.
I love how the popularity of the song mirrored the shape of the song itself, by initially growing very slowly, until finally it reached the status of one of his most popular songs.
I'd actually been thinking I ought to get a footswitch for controlling my computer. I'd like it to control more than just TH-cam (any music player, Audacity, DAW software). Vidami's done integration with sites other than TH-cam, but I didn't see on their website a mention of some general configuration capability -- say, to generate keyboard input so I could map the footswitch buttons to arbitrary keyboard commands. (Maybe really smart driver software could store different setups for different programs, and swap to whichever one had keyboard focus, just so I wouldn't need a foot pedal to control my foot pedal...) I have run across a couple of foot pedals that are programmable USB keyboards, only with very few keys. Those might work, but there's also some value in all the integration setup Vidami's already done. Just need a way for end users to be able to set up support for all the players Vidami hasn't gotten around to yet.
"It was a beautiful song, but it ran too long if you're gonna have a hit you gotta make it fit so they cut it down to 3:05" (Billy Joel - "The Entertainer") referring to "Piano man"
@@billkeithchannel I'd love to see some Gotye analysis from Mr Bennet. Gotye was a one hit wonder, but his body of work is so varied and interesting to me
This immediately made me think of Where The Streets Have No Name, which takes even longer - first chorus is at 2:48. Bono doesn't even come in with the first verse until 1:47! And the record still sold pretty well from what I remember... th-cam.com/video/3FsrPEUt2Dg/w-d-xo.html
Not really pop but Joy Division took their sweet time in "No Love Lost" and "Dead Souls"... lyrics enter late but then Ian Curtis delivers some really sick shxt.
Pleaaaaaase make more Elton John videos, He has an entire universe full of songs for us to discover, The way he performs and writes songs, So much to learn and cherish, He is a true master!
I think the tempo change is a really big element that a lot of people these days wouldn't feel comfortable with. I've never, ever thought about how this song has so many tempo changes because if your musicians are good and it's used in a purposeful manner, it totally works. Ditch the grid! Let it feel groovy!
It’s really more of classical piece in nature, almost like a mini suite. Truly brilliant and very emotional, very visual, very sentimental. A masterpiece..
It doesn't exactly have a chorus at all. The part where the title is sung at the end of the song isn't significantly different than the rest of the song.
@A B What if they sang "Strangers waiting Up and down the boulevard Their shadows searching in the night Streetlights, people Living just to find emotion Hiding somewhere in the night"?
The beautiful thing about "Tiny Dancer" is before the chorus, Elton is painting this beautiful picture in our minds. I'll be honest when I'm listening, I don't even realize that 2.5 minutes has gone by when it gets to the chorus. By that time I have this really beautiful picture in my mind and then the chorus is kind of like the cherry on top of an ice cream sundae. It's a quite lovely song. Beautiful lyrics, and Elton really accentuates that with the way he structured it. Thanks for the video. I enjoyed learning more of how the song works so well musically.
I found Elton John's greatest hits in my dad's old records and I wondered why Tiny Dancer wasn't on there since it was released shortly after Tiny Dancer was out. Makes sense now considering it maybe wasn't considered as much of a hit as we think of it today.
As someone who was around in the 70's, I can say that Tiny Dancer got plenty of airplay. However, I'm not sure what it did sales-wise. Elton also changed labels in the 70's and song rights for the greatest hits release may have been affected.
It wasn't a hit when it came out. Fans familiar with him knew it was a great song but I don't think it really got any airplay on the radio in the 70s--especially compared to many of his other songs. I think when it became more well known is when Cameron Crowe used it in Almost Famous. The fact that it's more well-known now than when it first came out is actually pretty typical of a lot of classic rock, believe it or not.
No - this is why "This song ripened into one of Elton John's classics, but it didn't even crack the Top 40 when it was released, peaking at #41 in America in 1972. In the UK and most other territories, it wasn't released as a single." www.songfacts.com/facts/elton-john/tiny-dancer
David, please do more Elton John videos. His chord progressions were always so good and so... Elton! Even lesser known classics like Little Jeanie, that outro is out of this world.
You have done a great service in revealing to me that that lyric is “pirate smile”. I always wondered what the hell “Paris mile” had to do with anything. 😂
@@DavidBennettPiano My favourite Cyndi Lauper song 'Sally's Pigeon's' also has the lyric 'pirate smile'. For all those time when 'roughish smile' just sounds clumsy :D
I remember being impatient for the chorus because I loved it so much. I learned to appreciate the verses, and realized the long wait was what makes the chorus so satisfying and monumental.
I remember when my dad got me my first ipod, the first thing downloaded onto it (aside from Justin Beiber's first album...that was not my choice, it was just there), was the album Madman Across the Water. I listened to that and his Greatest Hits trilogy on repeat for what seems like my entire childhood...when i probably got my first Iphone like 2 years later.
Journey's Don't Stop Believin' is another famous one. It doensn't actually get to the chorus until 3.21! But unlike Tiny Dancer, the song fades out there and doesn't continue: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Stop_Believin%27#Song_structure_and_references
That’s the way to do a TH-cam ad. You made it relevant, showed it in action, and turned it into a teachable moment. It’s the kind of ad that makes me want to buy the cool but of kit even though I don’t really have a use for it!
Great video. Tiny Dancer is a masterpiece and Elton sounds amazing singing it off the cuff in that short clip where he discussed the structure. What a talent.
Another interesting video. How about a suggestion for a follow up -- Uncle Albert / Admiral Halsey (by You-Know-Who) doesn't get to its chorus until 2:32. And Band on the Run takes until 2:37 to get to its chorus. Both of these songs were US Billboard #1s. Like Tiny Dancer, the Macca songs also have cinematic qualities and gradually pick up as they go.
It's honestly just part of the musical genius we see so rarely utilized for "modern" pop music. Pretty much anyone can spit out at least one top 40 hit in their lifetime. But who can make a song that builds up for (in musical terms) ages before hitting the chorus? Exactly.
One of the most interesting song structures I've ever heard is Springsteen's "Thunder Road." It spends its whole length zigzagging back and forth between the same two chord progressions. One part has a big buildup and is the only part where he sings the song's title, so it feels like the chorus, but it doesn't meet the strict definition, since it only occurs once.
Brilliant break-down and insights. Also really like how you incorporated the product demo and classy/sincere appreciation to your supporters. Big respect, you’re one of the best out there David.
David I recently discovered your channel and I just want to say what a great job you have done in your videos. You always explain difficult musical theories in such a simple and logical flow that even amateurs like me understand. I really learn a lot from your videos and it somehow reignites my passion for music which I seemed to lost after entering uni. I particularly like your song analysis and may I suggest you check out a Japanese metal band called X Japan. The band is famous for composing heavy metal song with prominent piano and orchestral parts. The musical arrangements of two of X's songs, Rose of Pain, and Art of Life, are the best I have heard. The former one is 12-min symphonic metal song that samples Bach's Little Fugue, whereas the latter one is a 30-min long song featuring Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. Really hope you would enjoy these two masterpieces. (Fun fact: in Art of Life, the chorus appears as late as the 9th minute) Here are the links with best quality. Rose of Pain: th-cam.com/video/u5bbHPyqjKM/w-d-xo.html Art of Life: th-cam.com/video/0eqmkgSeYjI/w-d-xo.html
Off the top of my head, the Beatles used a similar delay of the chorus in songs like Come Together, Baby You're A Rich Man, or Got to Get You Into My Life.
I love this song because Elton's piano playing mesmerizes me. That, and the string accompaniment coming in at just the right time. Your observations are most certainly correct, of course, but the performance carries the day so much! Just epic. And fascinating to listen to over and over again, largely due to the very things you mention in this video. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and the vintage footage.
It's funny, I'm an Elton John fan. I liked Tiny Dancer but it was never one of my favorites. That was until October 19th 2019 when I was fortunate enough to see him live at the Fiserv Forum in Milwaukee on his farewell tour. I was waiting for Your Song, like everyone else and I knew it was coming at the end of the show. But 20 minutes or so into the show, he played Tiny Dancer. I don't know how to put it other than there was something magical about it, seeing the video playing on the screen and hearing it live. I fell in love with that song that night.
I think your remarks about the typical structure of pop songs don't apply (at least not so universally) until the 80s or 90s. For one thing, before the disco era, the typical length of a single would be more on the scale of 2-3 minutes rather than 3-4 minutes. Especially in the mid-60s and earlier, 3 minutes would actually be pretty long for a single. Take a look at the run times of the songs the Beatles released as singles - the first one to be 3 minutes or longer is "Ticket to Ride" in 1965, if I recall. Also, I think in the 1960s and 1970s another widespread structure for a pop song would be something like Verse/Chorus - Verse/Chorus - Bridge - Verse/Chorus - Bridge - Verse/Chorus, where the verse can end with a short "hook" rather than a full-fledged chorus section. The prototypical example of this is "I Want to Hold Your Hand", and many many songs from the 1960s and 1970s have some variation of this structure. The thing to notice is that this form features short, dramatic sections that occur multiple times. Rather than having a "pre-chorus" section that ramps up intensity from the verse to the chorus, the Verse/Chorus section can function as a single unit that propels us all the way through from start to finish, with a bridge section intervening once or twice to give us relief from the high energy and take us in a new direction. Now that I think about it, this structure seems like an extended version of the older AABA form that you mention in the video; instead of just AABA, it's AABABA. I love thinking about the structure of pop songs, so thank you so much for making this video!
Yeah, 2 minutes used to be a more standard pop song length, and most songs were composed of A and B section, with the A section serving as the verse and the B section resembling a bridge
Thank you for pointing this out. I've been noticing this myself, with Beatle songs specifically. I think it's one of the reasons I enjoy listening to them. It comes off as refreshing to my ears, since the modern verse-prechorus-chorus form really builds the tension up until the chorus and after it's over, the momentum disappears and the build up has to start all over -- it's a bit tiring really. With some Beatle songs it's just non stop good material with a linear flow. Just my 2 cents
Yeah seems true for a lot of the 60s. I wouldnt say 70s songs really have that structure though, thats the decade when pop songs got a lot longer i think
Loved this video! What an amazing song. Another song that does something similar is "Let the sunshine in" from the musical Hair. It doesn't get to the chorus ("Let the sun shine, let the sun shine in, the su-un shine in") until 3 minutes in... and then it repeats the chorus for another 3 minutes! I always loved that : the song is a kind of very progressive crescendo and then it explodes when the chorus arrives.
Man, your content is my favorite on the internet right now. I've been trying to sleep, but I keep watching one video after another and I'm so happy to be learning so much. I feel that I'm getting more prepared to be more creative than ever. Thank you very much, you're a very talented music content maker. Wish you all the best!!
In power metal band Sabaton's Cliffs of Gallipoli has the first chorus at 1:25, Panzerkampf at 1:32, The Price of a Mile starts its chorus at 1:36, The Final Solution has the chorus starting at 1:52, Rise of Evil starts its first verse at 1:29 and the first chorus at 2:09. It's not that long, but it's twice or three times what you'd expect. This got me thinking; "Is this the band's style or the genre?" Powerwolf's Incense and Iron has its first chorus at 1:24, Dragonforce's Through the Fire and the Flames starts the chorus at 1:36. Then I went to look at the broader genre and AC/DC's Thunderstruck has its first chorus at 1:51, Metallica's For Whom the Bell Tolls starts its first verse at 2:06 and the chorus starts at 2:38 and Iron Maiden's Run to the Hills has its first chorus at 1:10. For some reason, metal, though still being aimed at broad audiences, has their choruses way later then pop songs.
Metal has a lot of extended intros, though. I wouldn't really compare the construction of a metal song with those of more strictly "pop" songs. Like, Run To The Hills's first verse is an extended intro section that has almost nothing in common with the rest of the song, other than it being in Dm (and it makes sense, since the intro is from the PoV of the Native Americans, while the rest of the song is from the PoV of the settlers). Other songs, like Megadeth's Peace Sells, don't even *have* a true chorus.
This is one of my all time favourite songs, and it exemplifies how i prefer song structures in general. The melody telling a story. Doing something unexpected, keeping me on my toes. Repetetivity and predictability is usually what bores me, not a late chorus 🙃
This is similar to why I love the Gotye song "Heart's a Mess". The full version of the song takes 2:50 to play through two verses and a couple musical interludes before finally paying off with three choruses in a row, back to back. And then the song ends. So interesting structurally. The radio edit (and music video version) cut the first of the three choruses to shorten the song, but can't really stop the length of that first half.
Again a very insightful video of the structure of pop songs for a better understanding of the dynamics how to compose it and how to perceive it. I did not know about the 32 bar structure. Thanks for that. I never truly understood the structure behind the emotion when a song finally gets to the chorus and the following relief. The key change is obvious, but the structure was not.
David, another great job analyzing the song but giving us that little morsel about the “song within a song” for each verse. I’ve been listening to Tiny Dancer since forever and never realized that. Thanks!
My daughter is loving watching your videos. She's 12 and presently working on her grade 8 piano at the Royal conservatory. Thanks from Canada for such fascinating analysis!
@@DavidBennettPiano I was going to mention that as an example of a "pop" song with a really unusual structure. Xenomania the writers and producers made some quite adventurous music, for the field it was aimed at
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The fact that this video gets to the Tiny Dancer chorus faster than the song does
😂😂
That's pretty meta
We live in a society.
Good one -- well worth the visit to the comments ...
Why does this have 2.4k likes and only 5 comments(including mine) lol
I've always defended that the waiting for the chorus is one of the reasons that makes the 'Thriller' video so popular.
Ive always thought the same thing
Hardly due to superior songwriting. The music is simply serving the visuals
Thought the exact same thing. The anticipation makes the payoff significantly better
the album and single versions of Thriller follow the norm though
It’s always worth the wait for the conga
Didn't even realize it took that long to get to the chorus it's that good
Same mate, I saw the video and clicked because I was like: “What do you mean, it’s perfect!”
Dont stop believing takes about 4 minutes to get to the title of the song
I didn't realize either until I clicked on this video. I think that's the true magic. You're enjoying the song to much to really care about the structure.
that's exactly what you want her to say ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
This reminds me of Phil Collins' "In The Air Tonight", where you have to wait for 3:14 for a breakdown, completely changing how the song feels.
Good point! That drum entrance is such a pay-off!
Yeah, especially when he plays it live and casually walks towards the drums before the drop 👌
Don't Stop Believing as well. 3:27 to get to the chorus.
@@SubtleHawk That's not the chorus; that's just the part where they say the title of the song. The chorus is the "Strangers...waiting..." part (the "Don't stop...believing" part is the verse instrumentation with the chorus vocal melody). #weirdhillsiwilldieon
@@Kylora2112 You can think of that part as a pre-chorus. Just because it repeats doesn't mean it's the chorus.
This says a lot about human nature, the way anticipation adds so much to being rewarded with stimuli. Anticipating pleasure is almost better than getting it.
Good point!
Until you realize she's not coming home tonight....
@Soy Orbison that is from the song mission from his album "Euphoria Morning"
That’s the whole reason the band Tool is popular I feel like
@@pw9258or just not coming tonight 😅
Elton John is such a huge inspiration for me. What a legend...
He is the man!
Pitty he can't write a lyric worth remembering.
So great. When I started playing the piano at age 16 I would emulate him. He had a sound I wanted. His passing tone chords.
@@rockyoutcrop100 yeah mate I bet you could do better
@@rockyoutcrop100 maybe before a comment on the matter, first learn how to spell 'pity' and then learn about bernie taupin.
Some TH-camrs even sneak in a Beatles mention less than 1 minute into the video!
As an old (60 y.o.a.) music teacher I really like you young guys YouTubing. You do a really good job. Our students (and my self!) learn a lot. Hope some day that you shall not rely your income on commercials or product placement. Your wise words, adorable focus on the topic, high skills, your enthusiasm and commitment to education are far to big to live on premises like that. I really envy your skills when it comes to online learning. Thumbs up and love from Denmark 😀❤️
search for "guy at a party who only knows one line of tiny dancer"
yep, that's the name for the video
That's the video I came from lol
thanks, I just checked it out - hilarious!
cringe :D
@@videoamador7922 same
Been there before. So embarrassing 😂😂
No Beatles in the thumbnail? Worry not, Beatles within 50 seconds
🤣🤣 I can’t help it!
@@DavidBennettPiano any interest in giving Brian Wilson the "Beatles treatment"?
@@BeatlesCentricUniverse
It’s not like it’s a fair fight, 1 v 4
I think elton is way better then the beatles
Beatles are waaayyy overhyped.
The way Tiny Dancer is used in the film Almost Famous is incredible. It's played after a row of some sort on the tour bus where everyone is sitting in tense silence. The song acts like a healing balm, eventually breaking everyone's bad mood as they all end up swaying and singing along.
I think that’s my favorite scene in that movie.
I watched that scene just before I went to see Elton in HYde Park in the summer......it's an amazing scene in a fab film
freddie mercury writing bohemian rhapsody:
the rest of the band: When does the chorus come in?
Freddie: no
i know this is queen not elton john but were talking about chorus
Oh boy just wait till you hear about Yes
Bohemian rhapsody has pretty conventional structure for prog rock song
I think innuendo could also be counted, cuz it doesn't really have a chorus
@KvAT Whats odd was that it was released as a single. There are plenty of long prog rock songs, or shorter songs tied together like the back half of abbey road. But songs like Great King Rat and Black Queen were not singles
Elton definitely understands the idea of building up to the chorus. I read a concert review where the reviewer said he could feel the audience lean forward in anticipation when he came up to the chorus of "Don't Let the Sun Go Down On Me."
"Indian Sunset" is structured a bit like this as well and plays out like a movie. It's a real masterpiece of songwriting and composition.
Amazing. That whole album is cinematic. That and Tumbleweed.
Indian sunset is an epic, and a story in its own right, it probably doesn't need a chorus.
Definitely my EJ favourite song!
Thank you for introducing me to it!
Indian Sunset is Eltons “Shine On You Crazy Diamond” (bad analogy 🤷♂️)
It’s funny you mention I Want To Hold Your Hand when She Loves You literally opens with the chorus
or love me do
Shehzor Mujthedi not really, it starts with the harmonica introduction
Janies got a gun..
You Give Love A Bad Name
@@jaydenwhitlen1489 She loves you opens with a drum solo 😂😂
Fast Car by Tracy Chapman goes through 3 verses before a chorus. Another fantastic song.
Great example. And the great thing about that song is both the hook of the acoustic guitar part and the repeated "You got a fast car..." motif. It's a way catchy song even before the chorus come in.
One of my favorite songs
And REM's Losing my Religion doesn't have a chorus and is a GREAT song....
@@kingzippythethird Funny you should mention that, 'cos I remember seeing the video to 'Losing My Religion' when it first came out and thinking:"what a shame... R.E.M. were just starting to build some momentum and now they release this meandering track with no hooks, no chorus, no nothing." The second time I heard it, I thought -- "okay this song does have something going for it after all. It's not bad". By the third time I heard it, I got it, and I was impressed by their boldness to release such an intelligent single that didn't pander to convention. Now, of course, I love the track.
@@kingzippythethird isn’t the ‘That’s me in the corner’ part the chorus?
Is it the chorus yet?
No. It's just the building of the verse, so when the chorus does come it'll be more rewarding
will toledo
AND I WILL SPEAK TO YOU IN SONG, BUT YOU CAN'T SING AS FAR AS I'M AWARE
I would speak to you in song but you can't sing
Oh shit you beat me to it lol
@@jaeusbeus though everyone can sing
‘Don’t Let the Sun Go Down on Me’ is another Elton song with a late chorus 🎵🎶
Indeed. Well worth the wait. IMHO that is Elton and Bernie's masterpiece. Such drama both lyrically and musically.
I wouldn't say that the choruses are late, i would just say that the verses are long & robust...
I immediately thought of that one too but it's a puny 2:03 to the chorus.
I love how the popularity of the song mirrored the shape of the song itself, by initially growing very slowly, until finally it reached the status of one of his most popular songs.
David: **says "tiny dancer"**
the automatic captions: Thailand answer.
i swear you're the only youtuber i know who gets sponsored by stuff that's actually cool
Thanks Alex! 😁
I'd actually been thinking I ought to get a footswitch for controlling my computer. I'd like it to control more than just TH-cam (any music player, Audacity, DAW software). Vidami's done integration with sites other than TH-cam, but I didn't see on their website a mention of some general configuration capability -- say, to generate keyboard input so I could map the footswitch buttons to arbitrary keyboard commands. (Maybe really smart driver software could store different setups for different programs, and swap to whichever one had keyboard focus, just so I wouldn't need a foot pedal to control my foot pedal...)
I have run across a couple of foot pedals that are programmable USB keyboards, only with very few keys. Those might work, but there's also some value in all the integration setup Vidami's already done. Just need a way for end users to be able to set up support for all the players Vidami hasn't gotten around to yet.
Yeah, and not by sodding Squarespace...
This why Tiny Dancer always feels so damn epic.
"It was a beautiful song, but it ran too long
if you're gonna have a hit you gotta make it fit
so they cut it down to 3:05"
(Billy Joel - "The Entertainer") referring to "Piano man"
A side-effect of watching an insightful video like this is gaining a new respect for a song. Thanks!
"Somebody that i used to know" has also the same trick
Good shout!
Doesn't _Heart's A Mess_ also wait a long time to get to the chorus? I love that song/video, even more than _Used To Know._
@@billkeithchannel I'd love to see some Gotye analysis from Mr Bennet. Gotye was a one hit wonder, but his body of work is so varied and interesting to me
@@iletyoucallmestevesy Yeah, it's sad how Gotye faded off. The guy actually has some really good music.
@@iletyoucallmestevesy He was only a 1HW outside of Australia. Here he had a solid career both as Gotye and outside of that project.
Good old Taupin and John. They did it, and spent the rest of their lives explaining how they did it. Song writing Gods.
This immediately made me think of Where The Streets Have No Name, which takes even longer - first chorus is at 2:48. Bono doesn't even come in with the first verse until 1:47!
And the record still sold pretty well from what I remember...
th-cam.com/video/3FsrPEUt2Dg/w-d-xo.html
Great example, though I'd argue the looooooooong intro of just a slowly swelling organ on Streets clouds the question of when the song itself begins
It's so satisfying when it actually gets there
Long intros can just be skipped by radio stations though...
Didn't expect you here, hi!
Not really pop but Joy Division took their sweet time in "No Love Lost" and "Dead Souls"... lyrics enter late but then Ian Curtis delivers some really sick shxt.
This breakdown was too good. Now I wondered why I loved this song so much in-spite having no technical knowledge on music 👏
Pleaaaaaase make more Elton John videos, He has an entire universe full of songs for us to discover, The way he performs and writes songs, So much to learn and cherish, He is a true master!
What an interesting way of making a song! He is such a great composer.
I think the tempo change is a really big element that a lot of people these days wouldn't feel comfortable with. I've never, ever thought about how this song has so many tempo changes because if your musicians are good and it's used in a purposeful manner, it totally works. Ditch the grid! Let it feel groovy!
"Good songs get to the chorus in the first minute"
Pink Floyd: *Hold my Crazy Diamond*
Oh god I remember the first time I heard Shine On You Crazy Diamond and I was like "What?"
@@gemfyre855 echoes too
Pink Floyd and Yes haven't taken a beer in months, since they still haven't gotten to the chorus
brick in the wall pt. 2
Foreplay by Boston doesn’t get to the Chorus until 3:30 in
It’s really more of classical piece in nature, almost like a mini suite. Truly brilliant and very emotional, very visual, very sentimental. A masterpiece..
Doesn’t “don’t stop believing” have an unusually late occurring chorus too? I can’t quite remember but that sounded familiar
Came here to say that.
It doesn't exactly have a chorus at all. The part where the title is sung at the end of the song isn't significantly different than the rest of the song.
Yup, chorus comes in at 3 minutes 22 seconds. Rick Beato did a "What makes this song great" about it.
@A B What if they sang "Strangers waiting
Up and down the boulevard
Their shadows searching in the night
Streetlights, people
Living just to find emotion
Hiding somewhere in the night"?
No, just a late title drop. The title drop is not the chorus.
The beautiful thing about "Tiny Dancer" is before the chorus, Elton is painting this beautiful picture in our minds. I'll be honest when I'm listening, I don't even realize that 2.5 minutes has gone by when it gets to the chorus. By that time I have this really beautiful picture in my mind and then the chorus is kind of like the cherry on top of an ice cream sundae. It's a quite lovely song. Beautiful lyrics, and Elton really accentuates that with the way he structured it. Thanks for the video. I enjoyed learning more of how the song works so well musically.
I found Elton John's greatest hits in my dad's old records and I wondered why Tiny Dancer wasn't on there since it was released shortly after Tiny Dancer was out. Makes sense now considering it maybe wasn't considered as much of a hit as we think of it today.
As someone who was around in the 70's, I can say that Tiny Dancer got plenty of airplay. However, I'm not sure what it did sales-wise. Elton also changed labels in the 70's and song rights for the greatest hits release may have been affected.
The 2000 film Almost Famous put the song back on the map.
It wasn't a hit when it came out. Fans familiar with him knew it was a great song but I don't think it really got any airplay on the radio in the 70s--especially compared to many of his other songs. I think when it became more well known is when Cameron Crowe used it in Almost Famous. The fact that it's more well-known now than when it first came out is actually pretty typical of a lot of classic rock, believe it or not.
No - this is why "This song ripened into one of Elton John's classics, but it didn't even crack the Top 40 when it was released, peaking at #41 in America in 1972. In the UK and most other territories, it wasn't released as a single."
www.songfacts.com/facts/elton-john/tiny-dancer
David, please do more Elton John videos. His chord progressions were always so good and so... Elton! Even lesser known classics like Little Jeanie, that outro is out of this world.
Love Elton. Genius musician. And you, my friend, has a truly worthwhile TH-cam channel!! Thank you
One of my favourite songs of his.
And this is one of the reasons.
The fact it steadily and beautifully builds, and then explodes into the chorus.
I want to do what you do, man, you give these pieces the analysis they deserve.
Thanks!!
Amen to that
You have done a great service in revealing to me that that lyric is “pirate smile”. I always wondered what the hell “Paris mile” had to do with anything. 😂
Does "pirate smile" really make more sense?
@@richarddoan9172 "Pirate Smile" sounds like a mischievous, knowing smile... a great lyric!
No,
No,
No,
It will always be 'pirate smile' to me
@@DavidBennettPiano My favourite Cyndi Lauper song 'Sally's Pigeon's' also has the lyric 'pirate smile'. For all those time when 'roughish smile' just sounds clumsy :D
I still don't know what pirate smile means
I remember being impatient for the chorus because I loved it so much. I learned to appreciate the verses, and realized the long wait was what makes the chorus so satisfying and monumental.
I remember when my dad got me my first ipod, the first thing downloaded onto it (aside from Justin Beiber's first album...that was not my choice, it was just there), was the album Madman Across the Water. I listened to that and his Greatest Hits trilogy on repeat for what seems like my entire childhood...when i probably got my first Iphone like 2 years later.
Excellent analysis on the Tiny Dancer structure. Elton is a legend in the music story !
Don't you mean Taupin is a legend in the story telling? He wrote the stories.
@@rman52 Yes, he' s a legend too !
Journey's Don't Stop Believin' is another famous one. It doensn't actually get to the chorus until 3.21! But unlike Tiny Dancer, the song fades out there and doesn't continue:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Stop_Believin%27#Song_structure_and_references
Interesting! I guess it depends on what you call "the chorus" as, in Journey's case, the "verse" and "chorus" are the same thing really.
I thought it stopped abruptly when the listener gets shot in the head.
That’s the way to do a TH-cam ad. You made it relevant, showed it in action, and turned it into a teachable moment. It’s the kind of ad that makes me want to buy the cool but of kit even though I don’t really have a use for it!
Great video. Tiny Dancer is a masterpiece and Elton sounds amazing singing it off the cuff in that short clip where he discussed the structure. What a talent.
Just ordered my Vidami....thanks for the discount David, and the wonderful breakdown of this beautiful song!
Thanks Michael 😄🙂🙂
Another interesting video. How about a suggestion for a follow up -- Uncle Albert / Admiral Halsey (by You-Know-Who) doesn't get to its chorus until 2:32. And Band on the Run takes until 2:37 to get to its chorus. Both of these songs were US Billboard #1s. Like Tiny Dancer, the Macca songs also have cinematic qualities and gradually pick up as they go.
It's honestly just part of the musical genius we see so rarely utilized for "modern" pop music.
Pretty much anyone can spit out at least one top 40 hit in their lifetime.
But who can make a song that builds up for (in musical terms) ages before hitting the chorus?
Exactly.
One of the most interesting song structures I've ever heard is Springsteen's "Thunder Road." It spends its whole length zigzagging back and forth between the same two chord progressions. One part has a big buildup and is the only part where he sings the song's title, so it feels like the chorus, but it doesn't meet the strict definition, since it only occurs once.
Always loved Thunder Road for this reason! Super daring structure that only works because the story matches it perfectly
One of my favorites and I never noticed that he only sings the title once
Perfect melding of form and content
Brilliant break-down and insights. Also really like how you incorporated the product demo and classy/sincere appreciation to your supporters. Big respect, you’re one of the best out there David.
Thank you! 🙂🙂
Really excellent breakdown, sir. I've never thought about the structure of Tiny Dancer. It was...illuminating.
David I recently discovered your channel and I just want to say what a great job you have done in your videos. You always explain difficult musical theories in such a simple and logical flow that even amateurs like me understand. I really learn a lot from your videos and it somehow reignites my passion for music which I seemed to lost after entering uni.
I particularly like your song analysis and may I suggest you check out a Japanese metal band called X Japan. The band is famous for composing heavy metal song with prominent piano and orchestral parts. The musical arrangements of two of X's songs, Rose of Pain, and Art of Life, are the best I have heard. The former one is 12-min symphonic metal song that samples Bach's Little Fugue, whereas the latter one is a 30-min long song featuring Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. Really hope you would enjoy these two masterpieces. (Fun fact: in Art of Life, the chorus appears as late as the 9th minute) Here are the links with best quality.
Rose of Pain: th-cam.com/video/u5bbHPyqjKM/w-d-xo.html
Art of Life: th-cam.com/video/0eqmkgSeYjI/w-d-xo.html
Off the top of my head, the Beatles used a similar delay of the chorus in songs like Come Together, Baby You're A Rich Man, or Got to Get You Into My Life.
The words also help keep the listener's attention. The narrative is vivid and the central character, unique.
0:38 I like how, ironically, Elton John is ALSO in the group of "musicians who have at least 1 song with a chorus within the 1st minute"! 😂
I love this song because Elton's piano playing mesmerizes me. That, and the string accompaniment coming in at just the right time. Your observations are most certainly correct, of course, but the performance carries the day so much! Just epic. And fascinating to listen to over and over again, largely due to the very things you mention in this video. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and the vintage footage.
It's funny, I'm an Elton John fan. I liked Tiny Dancer but it was never one of my favorites. That was until October 19th 2019 when I was fortunate enough to see him live at the Fiserv Forum in Milwaukee on his farewell tour. I was waiting for Your Song, like everyone else and I knew it was coming at the end of the show. But 20 minutes or so into the show, he played Tiny Dancer. I don't know how to put it other than there was something magical about it, seeing the video playing on the screen and hearing it live. I fell in love with that song that night.
Excellent breakdown of an iconic song!
Thanks!
I think your remarks about the typical structure of pop songs don't apply (at least not so universally) until the 80s or 90s. For one thing, before the disco era, the typical length of a single would be more on the scale of 2-3 minutes rather than 3-4 minutes. Especially in the mid-60s and earlier, 3 minutes would actually be pretty long for a single. Take a look at the run times of the songs the Beatles released as singles - the first one to be 3 minutes or longer is "Ticket to Ride" in 1965, if I recall.
Also, I think in the 1960s and 1970s another widespread structure for a pop song would be something like
Verse/Chorus - Verse/Chorus - Bridge - Verse/Chorus - Bridge - Verse/Chorus,
where the verse can end with a short "hook" rather than a full-fledged chorus section. The prototypical example of this is "I Want to Hold Your Hand", and many many songs from the 1960s and 1970s have some variation of this structure. The thing to notice is that this form features short, dramatic sections that occur multiple times. Rather than having a "pre-chorus" section that ramps up intensity from the verse to the chorus, the Verse/Chorus section can function as a single unit that propels us all the way through from start to finish, with a bridge section intervening once or twice to give us relief from the high energy and take us in a new direction. Now that I think about it, this structure seems like an extended version of the older AABA form that you mention in the video; instead of just AABA, it's AABABA.
I love thinking about the structure of pop songs, so thank you so much for making this video!
"House Of The Rising Sun" by the Animals was considered abnormal because it lasted more than 4 minutes.
Yeah, 2 minutes used to be a more standard pop song length, and most songs were composed of A and B section, with the A section serving as the verse and the B section resembling a bridge
Thank you for pointing this out. I've been noticing this myself, with Beatle songs specifically. I think it's one of the reasons I enjoy listening to them. It comes off as refreshing to my ears, since the modern verse-prechorus-chorus form really builds the tension up until the chorus and after it's over, the momentum disappears and the build up has to start all over -- it's a bit tiring really. With some Beatle songs it's just non stop good material with a linear flow. Just my 2 cents
Song length was mainly down to recordign limitations on vinyl
Yeah seems true for a lot of the 60s. I wouldnt say 70s songs really have that structure though, thats the decade when pop songs got a lot longer i think
Love the way Elton works Bernie's lyrics into his melodies..Goodbye yellow brick road, Crocodile rock, so unorthodox, amazing!
Loved this video! What an amazing song.
Another song that does something similar is "Let the sunshine in" from the musical Hair. It doesn't get to the chorus ("Let the sun shine, let the sun shine in, the su-un shine in") until 3 minutes in... and then it repeats the chorus for another 3 minutes! I always loved that : the song is a kind of very progressive crescendo and then it explodes when the chorus arrives.
Technically that is because the early half of the song is a different song called the "Flesh Failures".
Excellent video, David. You deserve twice the subscribers you have now. Every video is interesting and I always learns something.
Thanks David! That really means a lot 😃😃
More Elton videos please! 💚💙
Great analysis. Loved how you pointed out the tempo changes, and the AABA form in the verses. Thanks for another great video. Well done!
This is legit my fave ever Elton John song
Crazy, I've just gotten into Elton John, and have spent the past few days with this song stuck on my mind...
Fantastic insights, thank you very much. I love songs that choose to build tension delaying the chorus.
Man, your content is my favorite on the internet right now. I've been trying to sleep, but I keep watching one video after another and I'm so happy to be learning so much. I feel that I'm getting more prepared to be more creative than ever. Thank you very much, you're a very talented music content maker. Wish you all the best!!
Top work as always. Love going through well transcribed songbooks and learning about song structure.
This song (among many other Sir Elton songs) gives me chills. I love it so much.
excellent analysis. please keep them coming
Thank you. Will do!
He’s such a music master. The whole song is beautiful and never gets boring
love your channel and your videos, always super educational and entertaining! keep up the great work
I know virtually nothing about music and barely play a few open chords on guitar but I find your material captivating. Bravo.
In power metal band Sabaton's Cliffs of Gallipoli has the first chorus at 1:25, Panzerkampf at 1:32, The Price of a Mile starts its chorus at 1:36, The Final Solution has the chorus starting at 1:52, Rise of Evil starts its first verse at 1:29 and the first chorus at 2:09. It's not that long, but it's twice or three times what you'd expect. This got me thinking; "Is this the band's style or the genre?"
Powerwolf's Incense and Iron has its first chorus at 1:24, Dragonforce's Through the Fire and the Flames starts the chorus at 1:36.
Then I went to look at the broader genre and AC/DC's Thunderstruck has its first chorus at 1:51, Metallica's For Whom the Bell Tolls starts its first verse at 2:06 and the chorus starts at 2:38 and Iron Maiden's Run to the Hills has its first chorus at 1:10.
For some reason, metal, though still being aimed at broad audiences, has their choruses way later then pop songs.
Interesting
And Kudos for ch checking a of that
Metal has a lot of extended intros, though. I wouldn't really compare the construction of a metal song with those of more strictly "pop" songs. Like, Run To The Hills's first verse is an extended intro section that has almost nothing in common with the rest of the song, other than it being in Dm (and it makes sense, since the intro is from the PoV of the Native Americans, while the rest of the song is from the PoV of the settlers). Other songs, like Megadeth's Peace Sells, don't even *have* a true chorus.
Different radio format, if it's played on radio at all. Classic rock stations, for example, play lots of long songs.
I think that's because it's not unusual for a metal song to have 1/2 to 1 minute intros.
I'm glad he did it that way. It's a perfect song the way it is. What a treat seeing and hearing him at the piano informally.
10:51 I wonder how much of the bump in sales was due to it being at the best moment in Almost Famous a couple years earlier...
This is one of my all time favourite songs, and it exemplifies how i prefer song structures in general. The melody telling a story. Doing something unexpected, keeping me on my toes. Repetetivity and predictability is usually what bores me, not a late chorus 🙃
This is similar to why I love the Gotye song "Heart's a Mess".
The full version of the song takes 2:50 to play through two verses and a couple musical interludes before finally paying off with three choruses in a row, back to back. And then the song ends. So interesting structurally.
The radio edit (and music video version) cut the first of the three choruses to shorten the song, but can't really stop the length of that first half.
One of my favourite Elton tracks (there are quite a few).
I don't need it, but that Vidami pedal is a cool bit of kit!
Tiny Dancer had a huge surge in sales starting in 2000, because of the movie Almost Famous. Amazing song, thanks for breaking it down.
great job on the vids, your so talented and your the reason I am learning piano!!! Thank you so much David!
Thank you! That really means a lot! 😁😁
Again a very insightful video of the structure of pop songs for a better understanding of the dynamics how to compose it and how to perceive it. I did not know about the 32 bar structure. Thanks for that. I never truly understood the structure behind the emotion when a song finally gets to the chorus and the following relief. The key change is obvious, but the structure was not.
I really enjoy your videos. Makes my love for these songs even greater :) Keep it up!
Thanks! 😊
David, another great job analyzing the song but giving us that little morsel about the “song within a song” for each verse. I’ve been listening to Tiny Dancer since forever and never realized that. Thanks!
You've got a great voice for this!
Thank you!
I was literally wondering how such an iconic chorus comes so late the other day when listening to Tiny Dancer. I love the topics you choose.
Why did Elton write it this way? 'Cause he's a goddam genius, and it was the right way to do it! :)
Awesome. It's so rewarding to watch a genius at work. I love the clip of Elton casually explaining how he constructed this hit.
Just discovered your channel recently... love it! Keep up the great work!
My daughter is loving watching your videos. She's 12 and presently working on her grade 8 piano at the Royal conservatory. Thanks from Canada for such fascinating analysis!
Never knew that the tempo slowed down, I always thought it was just me. Like an illusion caused by the key change.
I really appreciate this structure of song, that teases at the big chorus release but takes its time getting there. It's musical edging.
A similar case is Biology by Girls Aloud, which takes almost exactly two minutes to get to its first chorus. Also got a very non-typical structure.
Interesting! I've never noticed that and I wouldn't have expected that from a Girls Aloud song. I'll check it out!
@@DavidBennettPiano I was going to mention that as an example of a "pop" song with a really unusual structure. Xenomania the writers and producers made some quite adventurous music, for the field it was aimed at
@@DavidBennettPiano another good one is 'I got a boy' by K-pop group Girls Generation. Very experimental with its form and structure.
I really enjoy learning from your videos. Terrific style and content. Thank you
Great video! Very interesting!!
I am very impressed at what a good presenter you are.... Especially for such a young man... BRAVO