Retiring the F35's would be an absolutely stupid idea. The aircraft carriers that the UK has were designed around the idea of STOVL (short take-off vertical landing) fighters. The cost of converting them to a CATOBAR layout which would be needed for a switch to more standard fighter aircraft is extreme. So is the idea of scrapping the Prince of Wales. In order for there to be year round coverage of aircraft carriers there needs to be one ready to take over when the one currently in service needs to go in for maintenance. Ideally there would be three carriers in the fleet for this very reason as there were with the previous carrier class.
We don’t have enough f35 for one carrier let alone 2,and if you scrap one carrier you may as well scrap both as it means there will be huge gaps in carrier coverage while the remaining ship is being refitted.
Most of the shops retired were old and needed replacing, the problem is that the replacements are not ready, same for the helicopters. What concerns me is the loss of the auxiliary landing ships HMS Albion and Bulwark, without them there is a major gap in the navy, hopefully the navy get to work on a new replacement for the ships
The fact that the possibility that the Prince of Wales being decommissioned would make it a far worse failure than the Russian Navy’s Admiral Kunznetsov, US Navy Zumwalt & LCS ships. I mean, it’s a damn aircraft carrier that has less than 10 years of service. And I thought the US Navy had its issues.
That is just incorrect. The biggest decline in Defence as percentage of GDP was from early '80s to the mid '90s (~5%(Op Corporate)>~2.2(after Granby)in response to the collapse of the Soviet Union (Options for Change) the incoming Labour Government (Blair '97) stabilised the decline at about 2.5%(Herrick/Telic) spending was increased year on year but UK GDP was growing faster in the first decade of 21st century. It declined again with from 2010 with the incoming Cameron/Clegg austerity government. You should have noticed the paydeal (Pay2000), procurement to replace Snatch LR and operational bonus.
@ you are aware when I was stationed in BAOR in 90 we had close to 53k in Germany alone now it’s nothing more than a defence force it’s no longer classed as a tier 1 army
The Armed Forces need to keep the MOD and politicians out of future procurement. What is the point of having 2 new aircraft carriers if you haven't got the other resources to protect them. They are just expensive targets. They have limited AEW and fly the least effective F-35 variant, both because of interference and indecision over whether the ships should have ski jumps or not. Eventually the Tories opted to fit ski jumps and therefore we are limited in not operating allied naval aircraft that need catapults and arrestor gear. We could have bought refurbished/new build Hawkeyes to fill the AEW gap and maybe larger numbers of Rafale instead of a paltry number of F-35s. Also, if we are to get the armed forces ( Any or All of them ) back up to speed fast we need to buy off the shelf and not invest huge amounts of time and money developing our own weapons which don't always come up to snuff anyway. Look at Ajax and the SA80 rifle fiasco's. A potential aggressor is not likely to hang around until we say we're ready, we need to be constantly on our guard.
There must be other ways of saving money. The defence of the realm must come first over what the government would like to spend money on. Yes, even you Ed Millidand.
These cuts are the result of lack of funding of new equipment and recruitment/ retention for the UK Armed Forces by the Tory Govt, over 15 years, with the result we have insufficient personnel and obsolete equipment. We need more, newer, ships, planes and missiles above those on order. If the current Govt is serious about defence, their review, due Spring 25, will support those principles and increase defence spending significantly.
Carriers are not defensive weapons, they are for force projection against other sovereign nations. They should be sold, we don’t have a worthwhile air wing to put on one carrier let alone two. They should be few F35s we do have look like expensive white elephants.
What is this prime Minister doing the blame game.The UK should be building for the future.The UK owns the 3rd highest amount of US debt with some 700 billion dollars. of it. The UK is not broke.
Its about income ie tax receipts, not assets & liabilities. UK national debt is £2.8tn with upward pressure on interest rates and the cost of servicing expected to increase. Even with these cuts, 2025 debt forecast is 5% more than 2023, a funding shortfall of £11bn+. The UK finances are in a mess and all political parties are to blame as policies are based on what will get them power and not whats best for the country.
If Britain does prove to decommission its Prince of Wales Carrier it would certainly be something Australia should consider buying. Australia has operated aircraft carriers before, although that was four decades ago. Given the close working relationship with Britain under AUKUS and the current dramatic deterioration in strategic circumstances ( via China ), perhaps the two nations could look to operate the carrier jointly ( sharing the costs and benefits) and basing it in Australia. Food for thought.
They won't be decommissioning the carriers. They plan to send the Prince of Wales to the far east in the new year. As well as this they have already made a statement that the carriers are safe as decommissioning them would be stupid and borderline suicidal as it would likely be the final straw to break the camels back as once again a labour government would have deprived Britain of carriers during a time of concern with a threat of war with Russia. Labour as a party would cease to exist and the current government likely forced to resign because there is only so much Britain can take before it gives up.
Australia had the option of converting their amphibious warships to be certified to operate F-35B aircraft. They choose not to due to high costs. Buying the Prince of Wales would be ultimately far more expensive. Now, India might be a better option as a buyer. Maybe South Korea. But Australia? I’d say no. Australia has its own issues with funding its own military.
The UK has had the largest defence budget in Europe for 30+ years but has very little to show for it. Its problems is based on a a mix of shortsightedness, incompetence and corruption. More money would help, but as it is much would be wasted.
It isn't just the equipment that is an issue. The wages and housing for service personnel is absolutely rubbish. Another reason for the decommissioning is that they can't recruit and retain the people needed to operate a larger force.
Northumberland is knackered and has major structural problems. It's going to the scrap yard anyway. Two further T23s will be mothballed due to a lack of crews, ditto the replenishment ships. The T class sub is only in service because of the late roll out of the Astute class. Albion and Bulwark were mothballed by the last government pending decommissioning. So already scheduled. The Bay class ships are the poorest part of the decision in my opinion, but they are coming up for replacement and I guess they were considered a low risk gap to live with until the new littoral ships are built.
Lower pass mark standard all pass and train up in their respective unit's. Recruit volunteers professional soldiers over 2 years 200,000 boot's on the ground. Increase tanks from 213 to 500 Increase boxers 100 Increase Ajax 100 Building another 200 Scorpions light recon tank. Another scimitar light recon tank. Building another 100 Warrior and upgrade turret. Building another 200 sarecens 6 wheeled platforms add bigger gun to the turret. Germany has their small hard hitting weisil light recon tank.
France and the USA are the only strong countries left in the Western block . Germany Italy Spain and the UK are just in a supportive role at the moment sadly .
Albion and bulwark have been decommissioned for 7/8 years. Northumberland has so many problems that even the navy says it is cheaper to scrap her than repair. Don't just lay the blame at labour's feet. Remember, in the last 45 years, the Conservatives have been in power for 34 of those years, and they have made the biggest cuts in the armed force's.
Being an island nation we need a BIGGER navy and more modern not smaller. Bigger army and air force too. They’re bloody stupid. The gov need pay cuts not to cause cuts
And meanwhile Poland becomes the largest infantry in Europe, with the greatest number of modern tanks and the most powerful artillery; Germany puts 100 billion euros on the table; And the French are putting 415 billion euros into their 2024-2030 plan, with a total renewal of their land vehicles as part of their Scorpion program, the renewal of the equipment and of their infantry with their Centurion program; purchases of several dozen new generation Rafales, and with the construction of a nuclear aircraft carrier and several nuclear submarines... England is lagging behind...
Retiring the F35's would be an absolutely stupid idea. The aircraft carriers that the UK has were designed around the idea of STOVL (short take-off vertical landing) fighters. The cost of converting them to a CATOBAR layout which would be needed for a switch to more standard fighter aircraft is extreme. So is the idea of scrapping the Prince of Wales. In order for there to be year round coverage of aircraft carriers there needs to be one ready to take over when the one currently in service needs to go in for maintenance. Ideally there would be three carriers in the fleet for this very reason as there were with the previous carrier class.
Decommission Milliband if you want to save money.
Absolutely, he is one degree from Special Needs!
£500 is not to be sneezed at !, it's 4 months worth of Hotel bills
We don’t have enough f35 for one carrier let alone 2,and if you scrap one carrier you may as well scrap both as it means there will be huge gaps in carrier coverage while the remaining ship is being refitted.
Most of the shops retired were old and needed replacing, the problem is that the replacements are not ready, same for the helicopters. What concerns me is the loss of the auxiliary landing ships HMS Albion and Bulwark, without them there is a major gap in the navy, hopefully the navy get to work on a new replacement for the ships
The fact that the possibility that the Prince of Wales being decommissioned would make it a far worse failure than the Russian Navy’s Admiral Kunznetsov, US Navy Zumwalt & LCS ships. I mean, it’s a damn aircraft carrier that has less than 10 years of service. And I thought the US Navy had its issues.
Do you actually remember just how much equipment removed by the previous tory government over the last 14 years
Two wrongs dont make a right, this lot have proved they are just as bad
Politics in the nutshell right there mate , sure we are doing bad but the previous guys did even worse then us, so vote for us :D
There were supposed to be 12 type 45s with 72 VLS tubes
@@neilsbs8273 They have not been in government for 12 months yet
@@folksinger2100 But they have shown by decommissioning our only two amphibious support ships they are just the same lot, different colour
Starmer getting britian ready for russian and north korean takeover 😂
Don't be foolish and low minded.
I joined in 89 and watched the British army get ripped apart by the last labour government so nothing surprises me
That is just incorrect. The biggest decline in Defence as percentage of GDP was from early '80s to the mid '90s (~5%(Op Corporate)>~2.2(after Granby)in response to the collapse of the Soviet Union (Options for Change) the incoming Labour Government (Blair '97) stabilised the decline at about 2.5%(Herrick/Telic) spending was increased year on year but UK GDP was growing faster in the first decade of 21st century. It declined again with from 2010 with the incoming Cameron/Clegg austerity government.
You should have noticed the paydeal (Pay2000), procurement to replace Snatch LR and operational bonus.
@ you are aware when I was stationed in BAOR in 90 we had close to 53k in Germany alone now it’s nothing more than a defence force it’s no longer classed as a tier 1 army
The Armed Forces need to keep the MOD and politicians out of future procurement. What is the point of having 2 new aircraft carriers if you haven't got the other resources to protect them. They are just expensive targets. They have limited AEW and fly the least effective F-35 variant, both because of interference and indecision over whether the ships should have ski jumps or not. Eventually the Tories opted to fit ski jumps and therefore we are limited in not operating allied naval aircraft that need catapults and arrestor gear. We could have bought refurbished/new build Hawkeyes to fill the AEW gap and maybe larger numbers of Rafale instead of a paltry number of F-35s.
Also, if we are to get the armed forces ( Any or All of them ) back up to speed fast we need to buy off the shelf and not invest huge amounts of time and money developing our own weapons which don't always come up to snuff anyway. Look at Ajax and the SA80 rifle fiasco's.
A potential aggressor is not likely to hang around until we say we're ready, we need to be constantly on our guard.
But they waste money looking after illegal immigrants
Old army saying ‘ look after the troops , the troops will look after you ‘
And the safe countries they pass through don't, guess why they are here?
Well the uk needs to support 10 million unemployed Muslims on welfare that's why. Vote reform.
There must be other ways of saving money. The defence of the realm must come first over what the government would like to spend money on. Yes, even you Ed Millidand.
These cuts are the result of lack of funding of new equipment and recruitment/ retention for the UK Armed Forces by the Tory Govt, over 15 years, with the result we have insufficient personnel and obsolete equipment. We need more, newer, ships, planes and missiles above those on order. If the current Govt is serious about defence, their review, due Spring 25, will support those principles and increase defence spending significantly.
MOD has more paper pushers than personnel in the navy and airforce combined.
More frigates would have been useful, but the RN had to have carriers.
Carriers are not defensive weapons, they are for force projection against other sovereign nations. They should be sold, we don’t have a worthwhile air wing to put on one carrier let alone two. They should be few F35s we do have look like expensive white elephants.
'they' don't need expeditionary warfare capability when it is us who 'they' see as their primary threat
Politicians talk to much action speak louder than words
At this rate we will have the scouts and the girl guides protecting us against Russia.
What is this prime Minister doing the blame game.The UK should be building for the future.The UK owns the 3rd highest amount of US debt with some 700 billion dollars. of it. The UK is not broke.
Its about income ie tax receipts, not assets & liabilities. UK national debt is £2.8tn with upward pressure on interest rates and the cost of servicing expected to increase. Even with these cuts, 2025 debt forecast is 5% more than 2023, a funding shortfall of £11bn+. The UK finances are in a mess and all political parties are to blame as policies are based on what will get them power and not whats best for the country.
@@Finderskeepers. 11bn is that about the same as the pay rises given?
Look on the bright side all those dinghies that are coming across the channel can be the new Royal Navy.HMS dinghy for a start.
If Britain does prove to decommission its Prince of Wales Carrier it would certainly be something Australia should consider buying. Australia has operated aircraft carriers before, although that was four decades ago. Given the close working relationship with Britain under AUKUS and the current dramatic deterioration in strategic circumstances ( via China ), perhaps the two nations could look to operate the carrier jointly ( sharing the costs and benefits) and basing it in Australia. Food for thought.
They won't be decommissioning the carriers. They plan to send the Prince of Wales to the far east in the new year. As well as this they have already made a statement that the carriers are safe as decommissioning them would be stupid and borderline suicidal as it would likely be the final straw to break the camels back as once again a labour government would have deprived Britain of carriers during a time of concern with a threat of war with Russia. Labour as a party would cease to exist and the current government likely forced to resign because there is only so much Britain can take before it gives up.
Australia had the option of converting their amphibious warships to be certified to operate F-35B aircraft. They choose not to due to high costs. Buying the Prince of Wales would be ultimately far more expensive. Now, India might be a better option as a buyer. Maybe South Korea. But Australia? I’d say no. Australia has its own issues with funding its own military.
The UK has had the largest defence budget in Europe for 30+ years but has very little to show for it. Its problems is based on a a mix of shortsightedness, incompetence and corruption. More money would help, but as it is much would be wasted.
Like how they stopped making harriers bc there were nk carriers. Then 6 months later they decided to make new carriers
It isn't just the equipment that is an issue. The wages and housing for service personnel is absolutely rubbish. Another reason for the decommissioning is that they can't recruit and retain the people needed to operate a larger force.
Incompetence in the MOD and woke civil servants
Northumberland is knackered and has major structural problems. It's going to the scrap yard anyway. Two further T23s will be mothballed due to a lack of crews, ditto the replenishment ships.
The T class sub is only in service because of the late roll out of the Astute class.
Albion and Bulwark were mothballed by the last government pending decommissioning. So already scheduled.
The Bay class ships are the poorest part of the decision in my opinion, but they are coming up for replacement and I guess they were considered a low risk gap to live with until the new littoral ships are built.
This is utter madness
Lower pass mark standard all pass and train up in their respective unit's.
Recruit volunteers professional soldiers over 2 years 200,000 boot's on the ground.
Increase tanks from 213 to 500
Increase boxers 100
Increase Ajax 100
Building another 200
Scorpions light recon tank.
Another scimitar light recon tank.
Building another 100
Warrior and upgrade turret.
Building another 200 sarecens 6 wheeled platforms add bigger gun to the turret.
Germany has their small hard hitting weisil light recon tank.
France and the USA are the only strong countries left in the Western block . Germany Italy Spain and the UK are just in a supportive role at the moment sadly .
Albion and bulwark have been decommissioned for 7/8 years. Northumberland has so many problems that even the navy says it is cheaper to scrap her than repair. Don't just lay the blame at labour's feet. Remember, in the last 45 years, the Conservatives have been in power for 34 of those years, and they have made the biggest cuts in the armed force's.
UK TAX REVENUE FOR 2023 WAS 788.59 BILLION, SO TO SPEND 53 BILLION THAT WOULD MEAN THE UK SPENDS ABOUT 6.71% OF TAX PAYERS MONEY ON DEFENCE.
Being an island nation we need a BIGGER navy and more modern not smaller. Bigger army and air force too. They’re bloody stupid. The gov need pay cuts not to cause cuts
Starmer needs the money to fund his net zero WEF target. The F35 was a waste of money from the start overpriced and unfit for purpose.
Labour allways shrinks its armed services plus this new labour hopeing eu take them starma can join this eu army but it cost them more if they do
Its a wonder sausage man hasnt gifted them to Ukraine
Sir Starmer prefers the WEF and Davos Globiz Peoples Republic of United Nations army instead?
Just a wild guess ... more feminism, more racism and more greenism.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
And meanwhile Poland becomes the largest infantry in Europe, with the greatest number of modern tanks and the most powerful artillery;
Germany puts 100 billion euros on the table;
And the French are putting 415 billion euros into their 2024-2030 plan, with a total renewal of their land vehicles as part of their Scorpion program, the renewal of the equipment and of their infantry with their Centurion program; purchases of several dozen new generation Rafales, and with the construction of a nuclear aircraft carrier and several nuclear submarines...
England is lagging behind...
What's next?WAR