TTA Podcast 137: Who Invented Jesus? (with Dr. Robert M. Price)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
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Robert M. Price's website: www.robertmpric...
Recent headlines have again prompted rabid debate over the origins of the Jesus story, the latest asserting that Christ was an invention of Rome.
In this podcast, and in advance of the holiday that celebrates Jesus' supposed birthday, we speak with Robert M. Price, a former Baptist minister (turned skeptic), professor of religion, and author of a number of books, including "Deconstructing Jesus," "Jesus is Dead," "The Case Against the Cast for Christ," and "The Amazing Colossal Apostle: The Search for the Historical Paul."
Countless documents exist with profound and spiritual meaning. That doesn't make them true.
I love interviews with Price. He can give you a ten minute response, yet keep it relevant and informative.
He’s also a racist POS
Dr Price gives you your money's worth in information and entertainment 👍👍
God,Devil,Heaven,Hell,Religion and the Bible was all created by man.. People make up Gods to explain the unexplainable.
Yes
Hate how people say these Christians don't do damage to others. In most cases they do, especially if they have children. If a child grows up indoctrinated into the faith by it's parents. Then for no fault of it's own stops believing in God. That person becomes isolated and now has to start a new life, new friends etc. Isn't that damage?
*****
Exactly, If he was personally effected, I bet he would change his opinion. I think he's too idealistic.
Why just Christians? Any set of parents with a dogma (that includes *every* set of parents, even atheists and those so open-minded their brains fall out) will similarly damage their children.
generationutena There's *some* dogma that those parents taught (or allowed the schools to teach) their children.
It might have been something as innocuous sounding as "be open minded; don't judge others, and accept all other cultures", which leads to as much harm as "be closed minded, and judge others because we're right".
That's because being open-minded and non-judgmental becomes a dogma to people who don't think deeply (and that's most people), and then they won't/can't/don't know how to judge whether an idea is harmful or not.
(We know how harmful that Christianity is, but we don't know how harmful newer dogmas can be. OTOH, maybe we do: note how Atheism+ turned so quickly into "you're on our side or their side" thought police.)
generationutena I think that I'm more than a bit cynical regarding human nature. My observations are:
1) Societies gravitate towards rule-bound hierarchy, no matter what the stated organization is.
2) There is a percentage of people who like to boss others around. Some do it just because they like the power, and others because "they know best", while often proclaiming to be open-minded and tolerant.
3) Most people want to be led. Complaining about a do-nothing Congress, for example.
So, just as there was a time when Christianity was not a dogma but now in some forms is, there is existential evidence that open-mindedness can be *warped* into dogma.
generationutena Seeing as how the not-too-far-back ancestors of every great (and average, for that matter) modern scientist was at least nominally religious, I'm not terribly worried what they're indoctrinated with at home.
The older I get, the more my opinion changes to "nature" over "nurture". I.e., I think that a person is going to be an independent thinker, or dogmatic, or won't really care one way or another, *pretty much* no matter what his/her parents teach. 20 years ago, I would have thought differently. 30 years ago, I'd have thought *much* differently.
Thus, the bottom line is that what I really care about is the child getting a complete education, not whether he's also taught fundamentalist Christianity.
Dr. Price's stance on the issue of atheist "proselytizing" is a little curious. On one hand he acknowledges that the defense of science and the pursuit of "truth" to be the greatest cause that atheists can champion, and yet when it comes to privileged religious beliefs, he somehow thinks it is not proper to challenge the beliefs of those he deems (rather arbitrarily) to be benign. I love listening to Dr Price - I think he's brilliant, but what exactly is the difference between someone who denies climate change on the basis of conspiracy theory nonsense, or a creationist who denies the scientific explanation for how we got here? I've always sided with Hitchens and Harris - that it is the seemingly benign nature of a church community that gives the fundamentalists such power in America. Some people view Hamas as a charitable organization too - doesn't make it so.
the holy bible is really the unholy book of horrors
Never get tired of listening to Dr. Price.
Enjoyed this podcast and hearing Dr. Price's take on things. Thanks Seth and again you serve the community of ideas well.
Wonderful to hear this. I first became aware of Dr. Price through his work (both serious and otherwise) in Lovecraftian studies -- at which time the idea of his being so involved with the Baptist milieu certainly blew a few of my fuses -- and later began to hear/see more of his work dealing with religion. Fascinating stuff, and I thank you for having him on....
Great guest, both in terms of what he knew and his ability to deliver it quickly and coherently. You should find an excuse to have him on again!
I disagree completely. I found him boring and pretentious, making this episode a difficult sit for me, but to each their own I guess.
RevengeofGothzilla I agree. I didn't like this guy. He made an extremely interesting topic completely boring and pretentious. From the title I was really excited to listen - but he couldn't stay on course, he went in many different directions and he didn't really talk about the main topic. And was it necessary for him to talk like he ate a thesaurus for dinner?
the reason for the season is the defeat of rome by kartago leading to the need for a holidy to raise moral... thus Saturnalia!
ahh, that kid, so facepalmy, but so adorable
"Truth--'the truth'--is a kind of lie without which a certain species could not endure life." --Nietzsche
I think determining the history of a physical Jesus is of paramount importance.
Disproving Jesus’ existence will help deconvert those who are clinging to “maybe”.
And personally, I want to understand how and where and why the myth was personified. What need did it fulfill? Why did it persist? There’s a treasure trove of information there that can help us understand who we are as a society and species, and which direction we’re headed.
The guest is, ironically, zealously militant in his desire to rebuke zealous militarism. I wasn’t wild about his perspective. I don’t like it when someone throws out many questions rhetorically as if that validates their position. Answer those questions! That’s more interesting!
Professor price is awesome
Jesus is a fictional character in one of the greatest stories ever told.
Thanks for leaving the comments open. I know there will be some good discussions.
Totes agree! So many times discussion is shut down on Bart Ehrman^s videos.....
vridar.org/other-authors/earl-dohertys-response-to-bart-ehrmans-did-jesus-exist/
This guy acts like religion operates in a bubble. Just let them do what they do, who cares? I don't think so. That's awfully naive.
I appreciate the scholarly work of Dr. Price. This talk makes me want to go get one of his books, There is a problem in his reticence to actively combat the political , social, and personal damage done by dogmatic faith claims. This is increasingly bringing danger to civilization. The motivations to combat this in our world by those who see this damage comes from a moral and ethical concern for our own children and future.of civilization. People of faith resist science - sometimes with violence - democratic government, free speech, integration of social constructs.
I'm reading, " The amazing colossal apostle " by Robert M. Price which looks at the possibility that the Pauline epistles are mostly pseudepigraphical
Hi Seth, are you finding it easier to get big time guests on the show as your viewership grows?
Thank you Robert. Loooved hearing your point of view as someone very recently coming out of a religious mindset. I love your "live and let live" mindset, and dare I say... it's very "Christ-like" IMHO ;)
Great conversation as always. I like Price, even if I sit more in the Ehrman camp. Price raises questions that make historicists like myself squirm. But I find how he then goes about explaining the origins of Christianity without a historical crucified Jewish cult leader even more stretched than the more mundane hypothesis - that there was such a guy, whose story took on legend. It is a fascinating exercise in intellectual curiosity though!
MEGAMAN TRIGGER The problem with the conservative approach to education is that they see their children more like an extension of themselves not a person with innate rights like for example a qualified education or autonomy over their body. Therefor they can fill the heads of their children with every garbage, lie or half-knowledge they want without any quality control and further please don't teach them to be critical of it.
The wanted result becomes obvious: a person with a copy of the parent's belief system not with one of their own creation.
Thanks for the fascinating interview! He's very interesting and erudite. I'll be buying some of his books.
I think that Price used a lot of straw men there regarding atheists fighting for a secular and fair government. It is not like there isn't a religious faction determined to undermined secularism and that it has already succeeded in many cases. It is really easy to call people fighting against fanatics , fanatics themselves if you complete ignore the existence of their opposition like the seems to do.
You can only live and let live if everyone is taking that instance, and that is clearly not the case.
Not to mention that most people that are in fact "fighting for atheism" are not trying to deconvert people but they are fighting to prevent that religious is taken more seriously than it deserves. I really don't understand why Seth didn't call him out on that more. Price wasn't saying that we should pick our battles, at least to me he said that we shouldn't battle at all
Not a stwaw mann, Oh Noes!!!11111
tekhiun yeah i had a problem with his angry atheists spiel we dont just have a bug up our butt cuz "omg nativity scene, RELIGION!" its because theyre being put up on state property.
+tekhiun This was the same issue I had with Dr. Price's speech about live and let live. I would be happy to live and let live. Except that I got called a Satanist all through school, attacked physically, ostracized and taunted. And despite it all, if a Christian leaves me alone, I'll leave them alone; happy to let them live in their ignorant bubble. But I'm sometimes called an angry atheist. That only seems to happen after a Christian has been poking at me for hours, days, weeks or even years. No one cares that I was provoked, often intentionally, into an outburst though; I'm just angry.
Did we used to call someone an 'angry, fundamentalist gay' if he got upset because the the right were trying to tell him he couldn't get married and that he was going to Hell? No, we recognized his anger for what it was; a response to incredibly unpleasant, and sustained unpleasant, stimuli.
And we don't usually fault a dog for biting someone if they bite someone who has been dangling food over their face for half an hour after starving the poor creature for days.
There are atheists who are just angry to be angry, sure, because zealotry exists everywhere. But it's important to not use such a label so loosely. Much of the anger (young atheists, recent atheists, atheists living in incredibly religious locations, etc.) are angry in response to a sustained stimuli; getting to the root cause of what's causing the anger is much more useful than dismissing them as 'fundamental angry atheists'.
I bought your shirt, sir. Keep doing what you do. Cheers.
Sorry, Dr. Price, I do have a problem with our money and so many other aspects of our society rubber-stamping Judeo-Christian beliefs. That's because I'm a woman, and I have to live in a society where I am a second-class citizen due to these religions.
+Page Turbo 2017 - lol you've displayed the classic Christian Persecuted Victim complex
You poor Christian martyr +Eric Engesser there is soo many media outlets to which you can watch, listen and face time to enrich your knowledge and/or understanding of Jesus. Sorry that Christian women are not submitting to the man in their life. You can wrap yourself in a bubble of righteous but how do you measure it? Talking smack about those who you see as nonbelievers, heathens.
Every society on earth has been sexist. With or without religion.
What about the old testament seeming to mimick ancient Egypt writings?
+Awaken The Next Level (Awaken The Next Level) what about it?
Atwill has a strong point when he explains the historic siege on Jerusalem vs the prophecy in the new testament. This particular comparison is really strong evidence that there is a link between Josephus and the gospels. Check it..
"People have the right to be wrong until it impinges on someone else." How the hell can Dr. Price use that phrase to justify allowing parents to teach their children blatant lies? That is about the worst form of "impinging on someone else" that I can possibly imagine.
Please consider this for a moment:
Driving a vehicle irresponsibly can cause a great deal of damage to life and property. This is why we require drivers to be licensed. It's quality control for vehicle operators.
Building or repairing structures improperly can result in a great deal of damage to life and property. This is why we require contractors to be licensed. It's quality control for skilled laborers.
Raising children irresponsibly can cause a great deal of damage to their lives and the lives of others affected by those children's decisions. Yet somehow, for some reason, in this single MOST important role, the role upon which the future of our species hinges, we don't require a SHRED of competence. If you're 18 or older, you're somehow automatically qualified to have your own family.
There is no quality control for would-be parents. Mind-blowing, is it not, that we require proof of competence for other, more immediately apparent risks, but in the case of raising children we give free rein to all comers? I'm not suggesting anything Communistic here -- merely that there should be some form of license in place to help ensure that children are not brought up in environments detrimental to their health. This would no more hamper our human rights than a driver's license exam does. Are the parents financially capable of raising a child? Are they at least of average intelligence? Can they pass a few basic child care knowledge tests? I should think this would be more than fair. We already do this for our *cars*. Our children should get *at least* that much.
Sometimes when I read the comments of the "Christians" I wonder if they're really trolls pretending to be Christians just to make them look argumentative and foolish. I really wish I believed so. I'm saddened that in the end they always seem to resort to name calling and rudeness. What happened to "love your enemies and bless them that curse you"?
About 1:09 the caller mentioned Dan Wallace of Dallas Theological Seminary and some of his work on Mark. Some years back like 07 Dan made a claim that the story of the prostitute in the back of Mark was not part of the original Book of Mark but instead was added on at a later time. And there were also some other theologians who were saying the same thing. Now I lost track of the argument latter on and never did find what the conclusion was. Not to mention I had a bias in the matter because I really liked that story and I am probably going to continue to like that story which ever way it goes.
1:07:00 Awwww...
Elizabeta Macovei
I know, right??
There was a real man who wanted teach humanity of Gods wisdom and how to grow within Gods wisdom to counter balance the moralities of the (spirit and body). "Jesus said, even the angels are bound to the laws of immortality as the body is bound to laws of mortality". In God's wisdom one can achieve satisfaction without judgment of Penalty on either side. For this I choose to preach these truths. But by the end of my life my truth will be distorted to common benefit to the rulers of their kingdoms and they will slaves many in my name, seek the truth to be free from your master sin" for God is the true master who give in full without wanting in returns."
Paul of tarsus, he made the whole thing up!! He is the Jesus inventor
Those damn Romans
*****
who are 'we' in the 'us'?
***** and the wine! ;)
SometimesInnocent inventions of technology from historical empires (the 'us' is humanity) am i right? #Paul_Darrow
*****
beer and wine come from Egypt
Ah true, in mesopotamia, israel and egypt. But i think the romans introduced it into europe during the reign of their empire since their empire had expanded to these areas
Julius caesar became Jesus christ
+Monty Simpson Really? What makes you think this is true?
read and study Mike
well the first roman christians really integrate to the roman society after being persecuted to death.
Does anyone know when the epistles and cannonical gospels first appeared in the historical record??
Its pretty funny how the commercial before this video was about the creationist "museum"
Good stuff lol
Seth, in my opinion the problem with Watchmen as a movie is the exactly what Mr. Price was praising about it. The film is so frame-by-frame slavish to the original graphic novel to the point that it doesn't work as a piece of cinema. To a person that's looking for that in the film its a masterpiece. To the rest of us who are just looking for a good movie it just seems overlong and, as you said, self-important.
I only watched the movie and I wasn't impressed by it.The last DC Comics movie I enjoyed was V from Vendetta.I believe V is the best protagonist they have.
So his issues lie with extremism & forcing one's beliefs/opinions down the throat of others.
If everyone religious or not held that view I don't think we'd have many of the issues we have today.
My mother is a Christian & a constant reminder of how not all religious folk are crazy.
She believes in a god & an afterlife & that's pretty much it, when raising me she made sure to state "my belief" or "my opinion" whenever religion came up.
So never stating it as fact. I'm an atheist & I believe that was due to how I was raised, to think for myself.
In my opinion teaching kids about your religion is ok, it's education but forcing it on them & stating it as fact when it is simply a belief/opinion, that is where issues arise.
i think Monty Python had it closest to the truth in the movie " The Life of Brian"
Please cut out the long, long upfront lead in nose. I want to hear what you are saying.
If you can hate the sin but not the sinner. You can hate the belief but no the believer.
I figured out on my own that jesus was manufactured
1:06:30 LOL! That kid! I feel bad for laughing.
I wonder if that 11 year old girl is still religious now she is in her early 20's, being able to now think for herself?
Alan Moore is a beast...
What I always used to dwell on as a kid was - why would jesus (him being god) would have this need to go down onto earth, and try to get onto the same level as us humans, his own creation. I mean, he is god after all. He'd know what it's like being human trillions upon trillions of years before the universe was even created, let alone earth. Either he knows everything or he does not. So if he does, then why bother?
It always made no sense to me. I have to say, I never really properly believed.
nt smith, I don't believe you or anyone else is qualified to proclaim what atheist think. I can only say that I simply have not seen enough evidence to accept the existence of a supernatural being. It is that simple.
My favorite thing ever is reading the dozens of responses a theist get when they comment to an atheist's video. Its a good thing religious nuts usually disable comments on their videos, I would never get away from youtube otherwise. (see below)
to all theists, deists, atheists, agnostics and other ists. Get a bottle of Senokot-S
and devour the entire contents at one sitting. You'll feel a lot better.
Superb program.
An interesting idea with the "miraculous birth" of jesus, I'm fairly sure the jewish belief would be a human mother and father, but a divine "soul" breathed into the mortal flesh by jaweh at birth. The thing is, this isn't what the bible says, which in my opinion is one of the proofs that this stuff was probably written by later people who had moved away from jewish mythos.
I want to know ... who created Jesus ... seriously
If somebody really invented Jesus, his heirs should receive a shitload in unpaid royalties!
Actually I couldn’t agree more.
I have much good to say about UU acceptance of many faiths, however, the history
of both Unitarian and Universalist theology is definately christian influenced. I don't enjoy rituals in religion and it does little to break free of established christian order of
service. I cant engage with their community and spend my Sundays promoting this!
UU politics does reflect liberal ideas and they do embrace egalatarianism.
is the catholic church in rome wich created jesus
"Jesus ben Sirach. This Jesus was reputedly the author of the Book of Sirach (aka 'Ecclesiasticus, or the Wisdom of Jesus the Son of Sirach'), part of Old Testament Apocrypha. Ben Sirach, writing in Greek about 180 BC, brought together Jewish 'wisdom' and Homeric-style heroes.
Jesus ben Pandira. A wonder-worker during the reign of Alexander Jannaeus (106-79 BC), one of the most ruthless of the Maccabean kings. Imprudently, this Jesus launched into a career of end-time prophecy and agitation which upset the king. He met his own premature end-time by being hung on a tree - and on the eve of a Passover. Scholars have speculated this Jesus founded the Essene sect.
Jesus ben Ananias. Beginning in 62AD, this Jesus had caused disquiet in Jerusalem with a non-stop doom-laden mantra of ‘Woe to the city’. He prophesied rather vaguely:
"A voice from the east, a voice from the west, a voice from the four winds, a voice against Jerusalem and the holy house, a voice against the bridegrooms and the brides, and a voice against the whole people."
- Josephus, Wars 6.3.
Arrested and flogged by the Romans, Jesus ben Ananias was released as nothing more dangerous than a mad man. He died during the siege of Jerusalem from a rock hurled by a Roman catapult.
Jesus ben Saphat. In the insurrection of 68AD that wrought havoc in Galilee, this Jesus had led the rebels in Tiberias ("the leader of a seditious tumult of mariners and poor people" - Josephus, Life 12.66). When the city was about to fall to Vespasian’s legionaries he fled north to Tarichea on the Sea of Galilee.
Jesus ben Gamala. During 68/69 AD this Jesus was a leader of the ‘peace party’ in the civil war wrecking Judaea. From the walls of Jerusalem he had remonstrated with the besieging Idumeans (led by ‘James and John, sons of Susa’). It did him no good. When the Idumeans breached the walls he was put to death and his body thrown to the dogs and carrion birds.
Jesus ben Thebuth. A priest who, in the final capitulation of the upper city in 69AD, saved his own skin by surrendering the treasures of the Temple, which included two holy candlesticks, goblets of pure gold, sacred curtains and robes of the high priests. The booty figured prominently in the Triumph held for Vespasian and his son Titus."
Jesus is a composite figure. I love when Christian apologists claim that even the Muslims attest to Jesus. Ummm.... No. They attest to "Jesus ben Pandira(Pantera)", and about 100 years TOO SOON to be the magical Jesus.
Atwell's conclusion was wrong but he was on the right track. Authored or re-write, it's still pro-Roman. And only a Roman would want that.
Invented Jesus? As Richard Dawkins conceded in the debate "Has Science Buried God?" - "Jesus existed"
This appears to be a logical fallacy of "appeal to authority" Dawkins is an evolutionary biologist, not an historian or bible scholar. I fail to see how he has the bona fides to make such a claim, assuming he did. Do you have a link, not that it would really change anything?
There is no way to know if he did or did not exist.
“Ham handed buffoons” LOL
I tend to have to debate religion and science on a regular basis due to creationist parents and society here in the south. I don't hate religious people, but I don't like their beliefs.
Completely disagree with Dr. Price on living and let live.
- 50 years from now men will still be seeking God's comfort and people won't even remember who Robert Price was.
rickster348 And thousand years from now people will still be waiting for the return of Jesus, they will still believe that they live in the endtimes and they will still have not a shred of evidence for the existence of their god. ;)
Rami Gilneas- and if you feel comfortable believeing that then so be it.
Rami Gilneas- this only confirms what I said in the first comment. God was, is, and will be, men are forgotten.
+rickster348 Technically God only persists because humanity keeps changing god. This is why, while the largest religion in the US, Christianity has hundreds of thousands of sects. And each one has their own view of what God is once you get past the basic 'created the universe' which all gods do in their mythology.
The deity you currently believe in will be a long dead idea sometime in the future. Though what takes its place will possibly still be called 'God' since that's actually a title and not a name
Considering how unpopular he was it makes little sense for any group to invent him. Not only that, but once he was crucified His followers scattered until he rose again. There is much evidence He lived and was not invented.
I think Price's point is that you can't know what you claim to know since the NT was written several decades after the purported events and no sources outside of the NT exist.
Bring your evidence. There seems to be no reliable evidence either way.
Take away the NT (which is just propaganda by believers) and you've virtually no non-biased evidence sources. Please get up to speed on your info and then come back here...
Even if he wasn't, the story of him being the son of god was certainly invented either by himself or by others
" *Considering how unpopular he was it makes little sense for any group to invent him* "
Given how hairy bigfoot is, it makes little sense for any group to discuss evidence of molting.
Begging the question fallacy.
Lol at that 11 year old that called in. Kinda cute wasn’t it?
Who invented Terrence McKenna?
Who Invented Jesus?
I DID!
God sacrificed himself to himself to appease himself so that mankind might be saved from his hate through his love!!!!!!! HALLLELUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHELLLLLLLLLLYEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhhh!!! This makes so much sense!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's almost intuitive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
God and Jesus are fictional characters.
If God and Jesus were real then it would be in the history books.
sauniz1 You are truly moronic.
Mike Millington Please explain in detail, what was wrong with my summary of christian dogma, with regards to the mainstream soteriological view as described by Anselm of Canterbury?
sauniz1 The Father did not sacrifice the Father to save us from the Father. The Son offered himself as a sacrifice to the Father to save us from just judgment for our actions. So, the statement is not true. Still, I can see why you put it the way you did. I believe that if you are willing to spend the time go get to know what Jesus did, what he taught and to consider his fulfillment of the Old Testament and your question will find a reasonable answer. I hope this helps.
47:00 Actually, there is major harm in letting religion run its course. When something isnt questioned, there will be no change - religion tells people to accept ridiculous claims, on the idea that its somewhere in that book.
Perhaps those protests are not the ideal way of doing it - but not to do anything, isn't helping either.
Think about the people who have this view on the world that science must be wrong and misleading, while their faith is always right. Consider what it can do, and does, to politics - to our climate and environment...
Consider the horrible way people treat their own family members when churches are left. Consider the abuse that has happened caused by religious leaders.
Consider the massive tax break these people get, just because they believe in something without evidence. Its unreasonable, and they get a break? whaaaat?
To summarize: religion is soooo out of control, and so damaging to society, that some can no longer see its downsides. Cant beat it, join it - attitudes, or let live & let live.
No! We should not accept it, and we should always engage in some form of conversation.
Yeah exactly this. I'm in total agreement with you. Religious people can't help but force their ideas on others. They can't leave us alone otherwise they will run out of believers. We have to get people to understand the harm this does and to basically get them to let go of false ideas.
Cameron Yu
That's why I really appreciate the Reformation. When Catholics and Protestants have about the same number of shee...eh...members they actually care about a secular state. Of course, they often manage to band together against other beliefs or unbelievers.
Some religions, such as christianity, are categorically evangelical. Dissemination of dogma is a fundamental mandate in the practice of such faiths. This is why christianity came to dominate much of the world. This is also why certain religions will never be relagated strictly to private belief. As long as there are christians, large numbers of them will necessarily attempt to impose their worldview on the rest of the world.
Well said. Thanks!
Gotta love them bibles in hotel rooms. Comes in handy when I'm out of rolling papers.
I always take it and throw it in the dumpster.
Sonia Guzman Ma'am, with all due respect, that's a waste of perfectly good rolling papers!
GroinFaceGroin I am sure the homeless people will find a use for them such as building a fire to keep warm, building a fire to cook with, stuffing for mattresses, etc.
Sonia Guzman Stop using logic on youtube dammit!!!
LOL!
Price is wrong in his live and let live attitude. Nativity sçenes,for example, on government property just fuels the fire of creating a theist government.
Cobra427
Regarding the gideon bible in hotel rooms, I think it's a good idea to take a hi-lighter and emphasize the bizarre stuff that's in there. Help others discover the absurdity.
I mean no one is ever going to actually read it. Don't waste your time.
@@CelestialWoodway I was super bored once and read a bit of one when I was still Christian (it had the pleasant side effect of helping me fall asleep). I'm sure it's pretty uncommon and odds are against these books ever being read, but surely it happens occasionally.
When I travel, I always look for my name in the hotel phonebook, or did. Phonebook? That's only at the payphone. Uh oh. Payphone?
😁
😁
That's funny and useful. I would have howled at seeing that!
People really read them?
They are down 15 % only 79% of hotels still supply, from 100% in 06?!😮
I liked the way Seth pushed back against Price's assertion that Atheists should "get a life." This guy is crazy if he thinks that the harmful affects of religion on modern society is something that can be or should be ignored or otherwise left unchallenged.
One of the nuance atheists^^^. Hearing what he wants to hear.
There is no reason why we should shy away from speaking freely about religion, no reason why it should be thought impolite to debate it, especially when, as so often happens, religious folk bring it up on their own and try to impose it on others.
Indeed Religion has become a serious matter which calls for honest discussion for it has reached far beyond the pale of individual conscience and is now translating into violence, sexism, sexual harassment and assault this is to say nothing of terrorism and war.
Unless you're an activist or Social media full-time atheist I would say enjoy your life.
@@CelestialWoodwayThat's hard with all the religious nuts running around voting!
I was 4 & pre school when the Nuns were bashing the catechism into my young brain. But at least I was fully literate by the time I got to school & now I'm an atheist.
Congra
"We cannot infringe on freedom like that's, unless it is impacting someone else." He says while talking about how it's okay to teach kids misinformation
That depiction of Jesus looks like an early photo of Betty Davis with a fake beard.
I don't have a problem with people saying "Merry Christmas", but by the same terms they should not object if I say "Happy Solstice". The tolerance seems to be very much one way.
I don't foist my atheism on anyone, but if I feel someone attempting to foist their religious faith on me, I'm gonna give at least as good as I get. If they find that offensive, that's too bad for them. I at least will appreciate the irony, but I won't care if they are offended.
Teaching creationism, teaching the notion that America is founded on the Christian religion, or basing legal decisions on points of faith should be ridiculed and fought against.
Man created God and Jesus.
Thomas Maxxamus I`m just stating facts.
If that is true, who created you?
Mike Gibbons I was created by my mom and dad, when they they had sex, something you Christians call sins.
+Black/Death Metal Byron 666 why did you capitalize god?
Michael Dennis Because he is a fictional character created by people like you.
A degree in “The New Testament”? Cool. Maybe i can get one in Harry Potter!
I feel very uncomfortable with the notion that parents should be allowed to teach their children untrue things as fact just because they themselves may not know any better. Shouldn't they be responsible to either convey the truth to their children or point them in the direction of those who can?
Who would be the guardian of that and how it would be monitored? We have no other chance than allow it because not allowing would be even worse for everyone. Parents are responsible for their children, but they also want their children adopt their political, sociological and religious views because they believe they have it right and others not.
Ounouh
You're right. It's a complicated thing. But it just seemed strange how he brushed it off.
I hear all the time about how children raised believing a certain way can have trouble shaking that belief once they grow up. So expecting them to be able to come to the truth on their own, especially if it's rarely/never presented to them, seems...optimistic.
Scott Bowser I think - I hope - his point was that one could make more progress if one avoided angering or insulting the parents by implying that they're teaching their children falsehoods, or that they lack sufficient education (or mental wherewithal) to perceive the realities of religions' origins clearly.
I agree with the responses that you have already gotten regarding this comment but I will point out to you that it IS already socially immoral to brainwash children with poor facts and worse arguments. Not everything needs to be illegal. We can allow people to be ignorant and not be foolish enough to criminalize it. They are socially outcast from anything that really matters (except for voting).
To the voting issue, preserving their right to vote even though they are bad thinkers/arguers or uneducated, preserves my right to vote when I am not perfectly qualified to speak on an issue (even if I do try to be educated enough for most things). You can't stoop to their level and live off of special pleading fallacies.
What difference does it make? All the difference. Constantly allowing them to insinuate their religion into ever aspect of our life to lend validity. It sets precedence for allowing further and more aggressive implements. This is not a slippery slope fallacy. It's been observed over and over. Religion will constantly seek to gather influence and it will do so in a incremental fashion. Most changes happen slowly over time. I will not abide government settings being used a stage for religious symbols especially since it tends to be exclusively for a single religion. That statement "In God We Trust" is actually used as "PROOF" this is a Christian nation by the layman who vote. It is not petty to call out the danger of this. When our national motto invokes god and a very specific one it implicately supports that religion and emboldens it's followers. So yeah I'm going to call it what it is in public and if that's petty fine. When beliefs and words and symbols stop having meaning I'll shut up.
like what islam is doing in england
Its true. Christians will continue to move the Goal Post. This creationism thing in schools, abortions, and civil rights for homosexuals thing has crossed a line for alot of atheists. The free thought movement has on its own collectively decided to begin fighting back against further encroachment. we challenge them on youtube and blogs, we pickets their pickets, and were begining to influence other by making our precence known and reminding people of the constitution.
"Religion will constantly seek to gather influence and it will do so in a incremental fashion"
And leading atheists such as Aaron Ra, Dawkins and atheism in general, doesn't?
BloodTar Atheist gather influence to combat the progression of superstition over rational thought. Religion gathers influence for no reason at all. Just self-replicating, purposeless ignorance about reality.
Yes, we all justify our vices and especially our delusions.
I would really like to meet Dr. Price. I've never met an intelligent conservative before. I assume that it would be like petting a unicorn.
Great! I've been a fan of Dr. Price ever since I came across a video of him on TH-cam where he speaks about the Leviathan and the creation by combat myth.
I find something about his very voice kind of "easy to listen to" - it's hard to explain, but it just "sounds good" - !
I would (genuinely) like to know how ex-believers feel about all the harm they did as believers; even if it's "only" the harm of creating other believers.
Being such a persuasive voice for young earth in my schooling years--when there was no internet to fact check the info. Really sorrows me. I have publicly apologized for my icr years.
who invented jesus ? Hellenized Jews
This tickled my fancy.
Pantheist Alexander Yep. Israel had been heavily Hellenized in the 300 years prior to the Christian writings about Jesus. It's interesting to note that the Tetragrammaton (the name Yahweh) appears over 6,000 times in the Old Testament, yet it does not appear at all in the New Testament. God is instead referred to as "The Father" and Jesus as "The Son". It just so happens that Zeus' title was "Father of the gods", so it's very possible that the father / son motiff was adapted from Greek beliefs and then blended with Jewish elements. I think that this could be one of the reasons that the Jews rejected the NT writings.
Vlad Tepes The Logos, a greek invention 300 years before christianity. Demigod , a son of God born of a virgin invented 500 years before christianity. Turning water into wine a miracle done by demigod Dionysus hundreds of years before christianity, yes Christianity and the Jesus myth is pure greek fiction.
Then if you jump to Judaism you see mostly Babylonian influence.
Pantheist Alexander Oh yeah. The concept of "sons of God(s)" and demi-gods date all the way back to ancient Sumeria. Indeed, much of the Torah (creation, flood story, tower of Babel, etc.) are almost directly plagiarized (word for word in some places) from earlier Sumerian / Babylonian tales.
Richard Griffith the Romans didn't invent Jesus but used this myth as a means to control the ignorant peasants across their empire, still many ignorant people in this time and age , hence allot of Christians still exist.
Great interview and that guy is a passionate and fascinating speaker.
I read the Watchmen about ten years ago, and while yes, a lot of the ideas in it were ground-breaking (the president being depicted as the piece of slime that politicans ussually are, the depiction of "superheroes" as fallible, not always noble, human beings...etc) but I didn't like the ending.
Dr. Manhatten kills an entire stadium full of innocent people, and gets away with it, because it's for "the greater good".
The fact that happens soon after he becomes a godlike being, is meant to reinfoce the "validity" of his actions, because of the idea that a god is always right.
I'll tell you what is a groundbreaking graphic novel series...
Preacher (from DC's Vertigo line).
In THAT series, God is rightly portrayed as a psychopathic dictator, and the hero is a man on a quest to find God and make him pay for the suffering of humanity.
In other words...kick Yaweh's ass.
Forgive me but unless Im mistaken it was Ozymandius and it was far more people than just a stadium of people. Most of NY iirc. Manhattan lets it happen though as he is forced to see the logic and then forced to kill Rorschach.
Reminds me of the Trolley Problem which you may have heard of (if not look it up, v interesting)
People keep on recommending Preacher. I shall add it to the long long list.
Seth, incredible response to the young girl who called in. A true gentleman and great role model. Kudos!
Awwwww an 11 year old who's been brainwashed! How cute!
Just because a person doesn't believe an unbelievable story doesn't make them an Atheist.
bahahaha.. someone can't seem to accept that maybe his Jesus was made up by the Romans. "It is absolutely unbelievable" .. so is Jesus...
I disagree agree with Robert on his view about religion being taught as potential credible info to kids. We might as well teach kids that Thor is potentially credible and then, in his standards of thought, let them later decide what is real and what is not. Why stop there? Let's throw in Vishnu, and Isis, and the Roman gods, etc etc etc.
I say - Make them aware of the myths you KNOW to be myths, and teach them from start REAL information to steer them in the RIGHT direction and not clutter their brains needlessly. I mean, why confuse them? For the sake of playing the game of personal choice?
I really get the feeling that this man HAS the right set of information but is still wrestling with the old subsets of his previous beliefs, and understandably so.
LONG LIVE THE ROMAN EMPIRE!!! Uhh.....I mean ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH!!
Why give it up your empire when you can just control the monarchs of Europe and have another one?
"Less faith and more and more interest" My experience exactly.
Wow I have alot of disagreements with this guy. I think he's way to light on religion. Christianity is poison.
as a kid growing up, christmas was about getting presents and talking about
santa, setting up the christmas tree and decorations; then someone would
come and visit and start mentioning jesus and in my mind i would think: what is he talking about? what the
hell does jesus has to do with
chistmas? lets get back to talking
about christmas! also i used to think christmas was the whole month of
december instead of a single day.