As a former EMS pilot flying the PC 12 I flew it on all flights single pilot. I also filed IFR flight plans on all FAR 135 flights. I experienced auto pilot dis-connects on several flights. I was qualified on the model 45 (efis model) and the 47 (Apex flat panel). I quickly learned when encountering turbulence reduce speed to maneuvering speed this helps the the autopilot deal with the turbulence. I also learned to avoid moderate and severe turbulence. The PC12-47E NG with the advanced avionics is an awesome airplane but it is not the best choice for a casual pilot. If you cannot fly often the Honeywell Apex avionics suite can be daunting to master. A better choice would be the PC12-45 model with Garmin conventional 430/530 avionics Just because you are instrument current does not make you instrument proficient!! Don’t be afraid to say no! Waiting for more favorable weather can save your life and the life of your passengers. If you are IMC, and have an autopilot malfunction or disconnect you must return to basics; Aviate,Navigate,Communicate. Do not fall into the “Get There Indus Trap” :leave that beautiful airplane in the hangar or on the ramp!! Live to fly another day. Stay instrument proficient not just instrument current. Attend advanced flight training annually I attended Flight Safety every year in the PC12,Kingair 200,Bell 407. Thanks Juan for another great video!
Pc-12 pilot here. The standard operating procedures that we have require us to hand fly in moderate and greater turbulence as well as reduce to at or below Va manoeuvring speed. It keeps us in a safer flight envelope and also saves our company from replacing auto pilot servos every year. $$$
Are pilots attempting to be lazy by allowing (or relying on) the autopilot to do the flying in turbulent IFR conditions, or do you feel that they end up in those conditions unexpectedly before they are able to shut the autopilot off?
@@workingguy-OU812I don’t think it’s laziness. When you have good A/P you’ll normally let it fly. Unfortunately it appears that too many PC-12 pilots don’t spend enough time hand flying (just like some airline pilots).
@@KDogg_96 Thankyou Sir as this is what I was trying to enlighten to given the conditions that sometimes are faced in the everyday operations of the service. I grew up in the areas where I have flown and i know the topography well and I know only to well just how severe the weather can be in a lot of these areas which does include thunderstorms of differing strengths plus other weather phenomena and all that brings its own set of unique flying circumstances. Sincerely...
Hand fly in “Moderate and greater”. The “…and greater” parameter is what gets me with this statement. That is severe territory which means one’s control of the aircraft is dubious at best. By definition severe turbulence means control is lost no matter how brief the condition exists and the autopilot must be disengaged. But moderate? It’s a problem if an autopilot system cannot handle Moderate turbulence; IMO.
PC-12 pilot here, and I come by it honestly. By that, I mean that I have twenty years and 11,000 hours in various aircraft, and have been an instructor as well as a 135 pilot, 121 pilot, and have several types. Sounds like i'm blowing my own horn, but my point is that the PC-12 is simply too much aircraft for someone who is getting fifty hours a year and doesn't have a good bit of experience behind him. There have been three accidents at least that fit this profile. In two of the three accidents, the pilot was low time without much experience, and flew into turbulence. An experienced pilot would have simply flown the aircraft. Remember, we are not computer managers, we are pilots. We have to be able to fly. The best message from this video is that we need to be able to fly the aircraft. If you are afraid to fly the aircraft in turbulence, then you shouldn't be there. In our case, despite a wealth of experience spread among three pilots, we always fly with two in any real weather. It costs more. That doesn't matter. We fly with two, when it counts.
@@mainer1755 “We are not computer managers, we are pilots. We have to be able to fly.” Simple concept yet this continues to happen. Aviate, navigate, communicate is all engrained into our heads but I think some of these low-timers are getting shady and/or inadequate training. “Training” with the sole focus of clocking hours. For some of these newer CFIs, the iPad & AP are everything to them. So I really like the way you said ‘we’re not computer managers’. It’s a simple yet very effective way of communicating an ongoing issue in 121 & 135 when getting into weather. Blue skies sir and thank you for sharing your knowledge with us.🙏🏼
@@GuyFromSC You have to monitor the Autocorrect all the time to make sure it's doing what you expect, and hand-retype the word, rather than just hitting ENTER on your post.... :)
As a PC-12 Instructor, one simple rule I stress to my students on a continuous basis…..Someone MUST fly the aircraft….be it the autopilot or the pilot themself. If the autopilot disconnects, just fly the plane.
Use the damn' instruments needs to be reinforced too, as too many rely on tech, rather than basics & that gets them (& anyone else on board)into w real world of hurt when the (inevitable) 'unexpected' happens.
@@GARDENER42 It's just easier to use the tech. It's hard to fly the plane. That's why they don't do it. Or can't do it. It's too hard. And the autopilot is just easier.
@@jimsteinway695 Doesn't matter! Just like Boeing, instead of doing the hard work, they'll just accept(or roll the dice) that there will be a crash. It's too hard otherwise. They're going to take the easiest path no matter what. Even at the cost of their own lives and the lives of others. Sounds bizarre but I believe this to be the case. We see this repeat everywhere now.
@@ACPilot indeed it is now - but why did it take two fatal crashes for someone to think “oo we have two sensors which are known to fail, we should use both of them and make sure they agree with each other” - seems a pretty basic principle to me
I have over 22 years of experience flying PC-12s. The autopilot is very similar to most including King Airs. The autopilot will disconnect if flown in moderate to severe turbulence. As with all turbine aircraft the pilot needs to regularly train at a professional flight school. If the pilot is not ready or able to hand fly he should not be operating the airplane.
@@cremebrulee4759 It seems pilots get rusty if not flying frequently but don't always admit this, ego maybe? A clean aircraft will build speed rapidly if the bank angle is not corrected quickly, nose drops and you are in the graveyard spiral, that's what can happen in turbulence when IFR or at night. Many passengers and pilots are no longer alive due to pilots overestimating their limitations.
Amen to that. Too many pilots think the autopilot will save their butt or they rely on it too much. Anyone, even a monkey, with just a little experience can fly 1,000 miles with the autopilot, but the tires hit the road when the autopilot gets outside its envelope. It makes me sick to see so many pilots think their IFR ticket is enough and not work hard at staying totally proficient and prepared for surprises.
Let's face it, constant AP use = complacency with non-professional pilots with infrequent hours. The PC-12 and its owner-pilots are victims of its design success and human nature. The only way to save these rich men & their unfortunate families from their expensive toys is to require much higher minimum continuing flight IMC hours, and that's not gonna happen.
I wonder what he knew about the front coming thru Wyoming that day? I no longer fly, but weather guides my life's activities in Wyoming. That front brought some strong surface winds and thunderstorms in the southeast part of the state that day. It seems the thing to do would be to either land and wait it out, or adjust as you enter the front by disengaging the auto pilot and hand flying it thru the front. I equate it to leaving cruise control on in your car when driving thru bad weather. It's best to switch it off until the threat has passed. I think we can reasonably assume what the final report will indicate, and no disrespect to the pilot is implied. Great analysis.
I really like your analogy of the cruise control driving in a thunderstorm. That makes so much sense. I would NEVER engage the cruise control under those circumstances.
I'm not a pilot, but I have friends who are. What most impresses me is the seriousness with which they approach their work. Staying current, practicing, getting simulator time, remaining focused, and training, training, training. Never letting your guard down, never getting casual or overconfident. One man flies for the airlines, the other for the military. Flying is many wonderful things, but it is never, ever a time to play games. If you don't know what you're doing or why you're doing it, you should not be flying. Mistakes can be fatal. Frankly, I think the same rules apply behind the wheel of a car or truck. We see daily, how many people break those rules, and the results are often catastrophic. In the air, its worse.
@@greyjay9202 I'm a Commercial Pilot and do both Domestic and International in and from Australia, I was formally an RAAF Pilot in both Fighters and Heavy such as C130, C17 and P3, Now P8.. I take all the Time I can get on Simulators if not through the Airline as not Available other than my Booked Times I ask the Military who Are more than Willing to allow myself Time in there's . As for that you Write Yes in Terms Of Truck Drivers and for that matter Bus, Train Drivers. Anyone who has Lives in their Hands needs to Stay Right In The Moment.. At Times their May Not be a Second Chance....
They must be professionals. Its rich guys with too much money that think they can buy these aircraft then with minimal training go into IMC weather and handle anything. Its their stories we see on Juan’s channel
Totally, thats why I get extremely irritated when you hear people saying things like "it was just a routine flight" ..Nope. Never. As soon as those engines start to spool and you mess up you can die... let alone screwing it in the air. Flight is an extremely precise game, take ur eye off the ball for a second, forget a chk item your toast.
A very long time ago when I was learning to fly, my instructor would have me put on the “hood” (so I could only see the instrument panel) and do all kinds of maneuvers to disorient me. That was lotsa fun - but it sure did build confidence for flying IMC.
@blancolirio Slightly incorrect - the trim trigger WILL disconnect AP but NOT YD if it depressed. The red AP disconnect button will disengage AP and YD at the same time. The CWS Control Wheel Steering button on the top of the right yoke arm will release the AP clutches and "reset" the FD to allow for manual control of the airplane, but you must hold that button down because when you release it, t he AP clutches re-engage. Was a PC-12 test pilot for 22 years.... Love your channel!
See little stuff like this a person need to be put in different simulated scenarios to understand this stuff. You can easily mistake one for the other seems like
Yeah, I noticed that he had a good technical ground school understanding of the book, but that he hadn't flown the system (or flown the system enough) to know how it actually all fit together.
Your description of the trim trigger is incorrect. The trigger will disconnect the AP but leave the yaw damper engaged. There is a TCS (touch control steering) button on the inboard horn of the yoke that will temporarily disconnect the AP while the button is held and the AP will re-engage when the button is released.
The pictures of the cockpit accompanying the description in the first 5 minutes of the video are of a PC-12NG. The text shown of the items that will disconnect the AP are for a legacy PC-12. The AP systems are not the same.
Honestly the more I watch this channel the more I think people who can afford airplanes think these things are Tesla's... and they are but not in a good way and at 1000's of feet in the air.
Have been working on autopilots for 40 years on everything from a C172 to a B777. Most autopilots will disconnect if the autopilot ability to keep up with a sudden change that exceeds the autopilots ability to make the necessary changes to keep up. The cheaper the autopilot the lower the limits it will disengage. Not much warning indication on the cheaper less sophisticated systems. I think a lot of newer pilots that are buying older airplanes with older autopilots that are very limited performance are over relying on the autopilots to compensate for lack of experience and skills in marginal or dangerous conditions. Most of these older autopilots are unreliable and fail when they are needed the most. Juan has covered several accidents where you could see the writing on the wall with some of the earlier video’s the victims posted on UT.
Correct - I have a low-cost AP and I need to be ready to grab the stick when it gets a little bit bumpy. The AP flies much much better than I do when it's relatively smooth, and I wonder why the AP manufacturers don't produce an AP that will handle *any* situation. For example, with the Garmin autoland, what happens if the pilot has a medical issue in bumpy weather, the passenger presses the autoland button, and the AP says "sorry, too bumpy for me!"
Juan and Hoover are the 2 best content creators on TH-cam. Really glad to see you both looking into this issue. I thought his was very good and then Juan's additional info/ perspective and breakdown of the actual auto pilot system was awesome.
PC-12 Pilot here, most in Series 10 /45, but enough in NG/47Es. All Pilatus PC-12s have three ways to kill you that go beyond the last instruction of "fly the airplane." The theme of this post is that if the autopilot is ON, your hands and feet must remain on the controls and your eyes on the instruments, and together you and the A/P are flying the airplane. The autopilot must fly *through* the pilot so if without warning the autopilot disconnects -- it happens fairly frequently -- the pilot merely tightens his/her grip and continues as before. The trouble comes when an amateur decides to "put the autopilot ON" and then "lets the A/P fly while I do something else." If/when I saw that tendency in a new guy, we'd have THE TALK. But back to the "three ways" the Pilatus PC-12 tries to kill you: [1] is the electric trim runs away (fails an welds itself ON) and moments later kicks off the autopilot, the mentally unprepared pilot will be distracted and frightened. A pilot who is forced to grab for the controls and try to settle the airplane into controlled flight is at a big risk here. Unfortunately, you have maybe 6-8 seconds to INTERRUPT a runaway trim or the airplane becomes 100% unflyable and Neil Armstrong himself couldn't recover (although I'm sure you, he, and I would keep trying to the end). The moving stab has way more authority than elevator pitch so you don't have a chance, and there is no manual reversion in trim. When you hear the BEEP-BEEP-BEEP of runaway trim you must instinctively and immediately go to the pilot's right knee position on the pedestal, flip the plastic cover up and press the TRIM INTERRUPT rocker switch; then find the TWO CIRCUITS BREAKERS for Main and A/P trim and pull them (top forward right, top forward left); reposition the INTERRUPT to NORMAL ... and if you get this far, practice with a senior guy or instructor's help to complete salvation of your airplane and return to normal, controlled flight. FAIL IN STOPPING THE TRIM RUNAWAY? YOU AND EVERYONE ONBOARD DIES. [2] Uncommanded stick pusher. Push and hold middle red button on either control wheel, find and pull Stick Pusher Circuit Breaker. (left side, bottom row, full forward.) [3] Cabin depressurizes? Find and put on your mask; direct or assist other pilot to put on his/her mask; start emergency descent; verify passenger oxygen is AUTO/ON (if passengers onboard); notify ATC. Complete the emergency descent by running the checklist. Killer item: get your masks on and ensure the lever is up and you're both breathing O2. I do these three drills every leg, every time, after stabilized in cruise. I ask the copilot to do them for me every other leg to keep him/her in the loop. The runaway trim/autopilot disconnect is the risk I respect most. There's actually a fourth emergency that you prepare for during the entire flight. ENGINE FAILURE. It may be a remote possibility (fewer than one forced PT6 failure every 300,000 hours) but you always have to constantly know in which direction you'll turn if the engine quits. The rest of the checklist is a tradeoff in problems to solve and procedures. (If I were you, I'll immediately kill power to pitot, AOA, and windshield heat so I'd have a battery to help me fly and land 30 mi0nutes later. Heaters take a lot of juice.) The PC-12 is easy to forced land: if there's an airport within gliding distance (and you're gliding about 15:1, so that's really good), and if you're on your game, you have a high probability of pulling it off with a perfectly intact airplane and uninjured humans.
It is shocking to realize that there are many pilots out there flying around at night over sparsely populated areas and/or in IMC weather who are completely incapable of hand-flying their airplanes should their autopilots suddenly fail. And even worse: family, colleagues and friends board these airplanes many times a day and unwittingly put their total faith and trust in these unqualified pilots.
The thing is they are likely capable of flying without autopilot but when the auto pilot kicks out in weather / night /turbulent conditions it maybe already in a unusual attitude which would require a high level of proficiency to recover before speed builds up and any panic at this time could be fatal, it sounds easy sitting here but if it gets away on you things happen fast...lots of pilots some professional have come up short.
Children of the magenta was foretelling of the airline world, but these private pilots are many times worse, completely reliant on the AP to rescue them from something they are incapable of handling.
I flew early SN PC12s, single pilot IFR on EMS missions, the autopilot was usable in smooth calm air. It was worthless in the weather and mountains. I just turned it off and hand flew it most of time.
Seems like an adage might be: the autopilot is to handle the monotony. The interesting times are for the pilot. If you’re relying on an autopilot to get you through the difficult flying, you might not be qualified to be the pilot. Same for the cruise control on a car.
Our CE340 was like that! The KFC200 was OK in smooth weather, and it would couple to an ILS ok, but was worthless in bumps up high. You just had to hand fly the airplane, a CE340 can hop around on you, it has a kind of small wing/ w tips tanks. The first few times it can really surprise you, nothing like it was practiced in my Insurance training at Vero beach.
Retired USAF/commercial guy. Except for below Cat I approaches, the autopilot is almost always nothing more than a tedium reliever. Whenever things start going sideways, the first reaction for most seasoned pilots is to disconnect the automation and hand fly it simply because it's easier and more intuitive than wrestling with buttons, regardless of IMC or VMC.
Make sense…. But how hard is it to hand fly in turbulence after disconnecting AP? Could it be so difficult it’s hard to get back in front of the plane?
@@Ken-harris In my opinion, it's not difficult as long as you can read the instruments.😜 It is tiring for any length of time though. I would maintain that in turbulence it's still easy to hand fly. For one thing the autopilot feedback loop may be insufficient to deal with it. A hand-flying pilot can make quicker adjustments that are smaller, and dampen out the responses by not over-reacting, whereas an autopilot might be slow to respond and make larger inputs out of synch with the variable conditions. In effect, the pilot is acting like a shock absorber for the controls. It's a combination of making small(er) immediate adjustments or not reacting at all to momentary deviations, which is a long way of saying it requires an intuitive "feel", something the best feedback loop can't calculate.
When I teach, I tell all my IFR students the auto pilot can be your best friend or worst night mare. What it becomes is up to you understanding how it works and always be ready to hand fly. These crashes are senseless and frustrating. Very sad!
Great overview of the PC-12 auto pilot. The aircraft is very complex for a single engine design and the avionics and displays are such that private pilots really have no reason to own one unless they can afford a professional flight school and continuation training on the aircraft.
Spot on buddy. If you’re not up to the task, admit it, hire a professional and press on. Out of control ego’s have been an ongoing problem in aviation right from the early days. Be smart and live - Be stupid and die. Remember the poster we’ve all seen - “Aviation is not inherently dangerous, but to an even greater degree than the sea , it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, or neglect”. Thank you for all you do Juan. Take Care and Be Well.
...and how do you know when you're not going to be up to the task. Oh right, you don't, in most cases of forecasts of IMC along the route, far enough ahead of time to hire said pilot. Didn't consider that did you. Speaking of not thinking it through...😉
@@berenonehand I would say this is the trick to staying alive, Dad flew commercial 42 years, when I was young heard him say the secret to staying alive in aviation is knowing your limitations. If you don't hand fly often in hard IFR it might be a problem one turbulent night when the autopilot kicks off and you are quired to recover from a unusual attitude. It's up to you to think this through, if you can't evaluate your ability I feel sorry for your passengers, one reason I am very careful which pilot's I fly with.
@@dwaynemcallister7231 I wonder though - is having to successfully and consistently hand-fly out of rough nighttime IMC when the AP suddenly shuts off part of single-pilot single-engine turbo licensing requirements? If not, it should be. It's hard to know what your limitations are if they were never evaluated.
The PC12 is a Very Unforgiving Aircraft if your not staying on top of your Immediate Outside Environment. The Design of the Aircraft itself whilst Excellent has some Limitations in Terms of the Aircrafts Handling Characteristics Especially in Bad Weather and in that of even somewhat Suspect Conditions and this is why many Australian Pilots would rather a Hands on Approach to this Aircraft in many Environments as we believe it could be better than the Alternative and in today's Operational Environment you can't afford a Problem in this Aeroplane. That which is affecting more and more Aircraft being Clear Air Turbulence is also a Big Problem in the PC12 in Auto Pilot Mode and you really need to be Very much in Tune with This Planes Systems and it's Control Characteristics or just don't Fly it if you feel your Not Comfortable with it. Nicely Explained Video Captain....
@@michaelgarrow3239 I thought about that before i sent it believe me as I was trying to put the whole thing into the Broader Context Summarising of just how she handled in varying situations and the one I flew was pretty much in that realm of needing to be Hand Nursed through some pretty Sketchy areas at best and not the kind of places that would normally employ that of as you say SOP but that's just what we sometimes had to deal with and I guess still being here today is either Luck or a Bit of Skill as well. But in the Greater Context relating to all which is then SOP is always Best but don't bet your Life on it...
Maybe re-write your original post John it's very confusing to read and you have random capitalized words throughout. CAT is a meteorological phenomena associated with jet streams, I think you mean convective activity, or updrafts. The highest PC12 operators in Australia will take their planes is mid to high 20's in the flight levels, never into the 30's where the southern jetstream begin.
5:20 is simply... precious! Mmmm, mmm, Soooo Good! Generally speaking, Juan, you do Yeoman's work here. Your rational, typically delicate and deliberate approach to aviation events definitively distinguishes you from many others in the current cray-cray "notice-me" aviation commentary world. Thank you for being cool and real! (+10K hr ATP +4k hr CFI)
You hit the nail on the head right at the end...... You have a $7 million aeroplane, plus the running costs etc to take you, your family or customers around. You do not fly it single pilot, just because Pilatus say it is SP certified ! For $400 a day, you get someone else next to you who can work with you and if you suffer a problem, can get the aeroplane down safely. I did 30 years in the airlines as multi crew, I now fly a PC-12, have 600 hours in it over 3 years. I fly for a family, the owner flies with me and he is competent, but not rated. If he is not available, I get someone with me when passengers are on board. A delightful aeroplane to fly in all conditions, but as with any aeroplane - respect weather, conditions and know what your back ups are if things get a little gnarly.
Great comment. I was the "2nd pilot" for a CE340 Owner for 3 years. We flew all over the US safely but conservatively. Flying GA aircraft ( Piston Twins anyway) to a schedule can end you.
There are a lot of hard lessons in Mentour videos. They explain why there are lot of rule or procedure changes that may not make sense, its because they were written in the blood of those who paid the ultimate price. Something younger pilots dont know of. Eg. I turn on strobes entering any runway, jr pilots ask me why, and I send them Mentour's review of 1991 US Air and SkyWest at LAX. Jr pilots arent picking up on the lessons of accidents past.
@@donwhitton7791 Yes... Mentour more of the large-scale accidents/FU's... but he does give the pilots lots of slack, refuses to cast blame... Hoover is good at calling a doof a doof.
@@scowell the aviation system is safer for not "casting blame", but understanding that humans are humams, and that we are all fallable. If we go around casting blame then things will get covered up (people won't report) and we won't learn of small errors that can cause larger ones (Boeing culture). Hoover doesn't cast blame, he points out where people have stepped into situations beyond their capacity or training. This isn't their fault but part of the human condition. We are all guilty of this at some point during our lives, in various diciplines or situations. If you 100% all the time you aren't human, you're a robot (as long as it has been programmed correctly)
I’m a PC-12 instructor, sadly we’ve had a few of these over the years. If you get a high altitude upset, disconnect, or shaker/pusher, the next few moments are going to be critical. Focus on your PFD, maintain level flight and a flying attitude, do NOT obsess on maintaining altitude. I’m afraid this is a big factor. Notify ATC unable altitude or just declare an emergency. Fly the Plane, Fly the Plane. High altitude stall recoveries are not like the low ones we do in the plane or Sim. I encourage everybody to request high altitude upsets with moderate/severe turbulence. It’s an eye opener and humbling. If you’re in icing mode the speed protection envelope is scheduled higher as well. Pitch attitude is much more sensitive and the attitude will be very flat or even nose down for a while to regain energy. Keep an eye on the AOA/Dynamic Speed circle. It needs to get below your pointer on speed tape before you start pulling in back pressure. I guarantee, if you get a shaker/pusher event at high altitudes, you will likely initiate a recovery that results in a secondary stall event. None of us are smooth when startled. At FL260, there wasn’t anything to hit in the continental US for another 11,000’. Just accepting the altitude loss could have been the difference. Remember, in these scenarios, your only job is flying, ATC works for you at this point. Be safe out there folks, know your limits, know the aircraft limits, and fly smart. Atlanta to Seattle, 8hrs flying time, 2 en-route stops. This is a tough day for the best of us. perhaps a $1000/day co-pilot on this trip may have been a worthy expense.
@@igclapp speaking from my own experience, it’s your first instinct. In my early flying days a WW2 Hump pilot told me, “the same cloud that takes you up, will bring you back down”…his advice to me as a student pilot, training in the mountains, was never fight the updraft or downdraft…it’s a philosophy that kept him from becoming a part of the “aluminum trail”. 80 y/o advice that still rings true.
Non Pilot here. Just an over the hill 75 year old with a non-professional observation. From a Human Factors perspective, what good is automation that adds excessive panel resource management requirements and distractive multiple warnings, when a focus on flying skills is needed. Automation that adds excessive complexity which interferes with pilot decision making, is not effective automation. Perhaps there needs to be a human factors evaluation regarding the design of the PC 12 flight deck controls. As Juan described all of the various options for managing the flight deck AutoPilot, my head was swimming (well spinning and stalling) Too many options and buttons to keep track of. Automation should not increase decision making workload. I think Musk's design mantra has been ... keep it simple. If it is not needed get rid of it. The more stuff you have to deal with, the more points of failure.
It's a pretty standard design. Everything you need to know is right in front of you on the EADI which you should be monitoring constantly. Everything else is just mode select panels. It's normal to have multiple warnings when the AP trips out.
Ex pilot here with several 1000s hrs on Dassault tri jets. Completely agree with this comment. The fact that the PC-12 is certified single pilot doesn’t change the fact that it’s potentially as demanding as a two crew aircraft when things go off script. We are only human and there’s a lot of information to process with these flight systems. Pilot proficiency may be an issue but we can all have a bad day and never assume that the unfortunate victim/s were in some way less competent than ourselves.
I disagree that the PC 12 is too complicated. You get the warnings, hit the red button and FLY THE AIRPLANE! If you are proficient at instrument flying, then this wouldn't even make the news.
Re replies, I can see why Juan emphasized the need for training and yearly refresher training. If you are trained, you can handle surprises and make correct quick decisions without having to figure things out. For those that are trained, proficient and current... I'd hire you in a heartbeat to fly the PC 12... if I had the money for one. When Juan went through all the decisions that needed to be made in the turbulent IMC situation, my unfamiliarized Brain went into freeze. Couldn't keep up with it even on a video. It's perhaps a bit like PIckleball. At first... not so good. Nine years later, hardly have to think about how when and where to be to return the ball. All automatic, fast response, wrist and racquet positioned for returns. No time to sit and think about it. Just know and do.
The problem doesn't seem to be the autopilot disconnect as much as the decision to fly a high performance complex pressurized aircraft as a single pilot while relying on autopilot as MAIN PILOT instead than just as support to relieve fatigue.
Retired USAF Autopilot Tech here. This is a very good description of a common thread I see on many YT crash videos. Too much ego involved in many of these GA accidents.
@@wayne9638 Yes, which goes right back to the point that if you can't hand fly at least as well as the autopilot, then you have no business using the autopilot until your skills are developed enough that you can.
Juan, I always enjoy your content. It was also super nice to listen to you emcee the Stol Wars in Independence last week, just a few miles from home. Thanks for all you do.
Thanks a million Mr Browne. I think this bird has a very high dollar price tag. I'm thinkin havin a copilot fly with me for a couple hundred hours till I get comfortable is a great idea. 👍👍👍✈️✈️✈️✈️
When you press the trim trigger on the back of the yoke while autopilot is on the autopilot will disconnect completely but will leave the yaw damp on. In order for the autopilot to turn back on you need to reselect the autopilot button.
Lots of the wealthy guys who can afford this very high performance aircraft are too busy making money to be essentially a semi- professional pilot- believe me, when that autopilot kicks off in IFR conditions in turbulent conditions, you better be a very skilled pilot or you’re going into the marble orchard. The plane you can afford isn’t necessarily the plane you should buy.
Aviate, navigate, communicate. How many times have you and others drummed this into us? So many that it is inexcusable not to follow this very basic rule. Spacial awareness should never be an issue IF you use and trust your instruments. These pilots had plenty of altitude [=time] but simply failed to fly the plane. Hoover is right. If you can afford the plane, you can afford the simple safe guards he mentioned. I believe too many overestimate their competence. Anyone can fly a plane when everything is going well, heck they fly themselves [even without auto pilot] but it is when things go wrong you have to, as Goose in Top gun said "do some of that pilot shit". Very sad outcomes that could have been avoided. Thanks again Juan.
Juan I have been flying the PC12 Single Pilot off and on since November 1997. I have about 12,000 hrs and over 5,200 hrs in Pilatus Aircraft of all variants. It’s a stable platform that is easy to fly. I would take it over the other 1/2 dozen Turboprop aircraft I also have flown. These accidents are simply a matter of pilots that are not competent to handle the aircraft, plain and simple!
Just because you are very wealthy doesn't mean you have the pilotage skills for IFR flight. A customer of a company I use to work for ran into the same thing. Different aircraft type, same result. The safety pilot fell down on the job. His life insurance company required one. Four fatalities.
I absolutely love Hoovers channel. Like you, experienced, humble, knowlegable, objective and respectful. Id love for you, Hoover, Kelsey and Petter to get together and do a show.
In the us no you will only find single pilot unless a hospital program specifically asks and pays for a dual crew. Royal flying doctors flies dual. Most of EU ops I’d imagine is dual. The us market will never pay for dual crew until the government fixes the horrendous payments for flights.
My best friend has told me time and again the pilots that get complacent with auto pilots don't know what to do when they get in the soup of something happening outside the box of conditions they normally fly in.
My experience with AP disconnects is that the airplane can be way out of trim when it kicks out. Distracting the single pilot at critical moments when the pilot's attention should be elsewhere.
Juan, I was buying a few shirts from the High Seas Trading Co, Hawaiian Shirts, and thought of you. They have two shirts 1) Vintage Aircraft and 2) American Military Aircraft. Made in the USA and based out of Laguna Hills, CA. Great shirts. I have a closet full of 'em. If you have time, take a look. Thanks for sharing info on the PC-12
It should be noted that different models of pc-12 have different autopilot panels. I have about 3500 hours in the Pilatus. The standard “-47” was not only more clunky than the newer AFCS panels, but also WAY more sensitive to autopilot disconnects in turbulence. Which I believe a lot of these loss of control accidents have been in. Much like the Reno medevac crash that broke up in flight.
Has anyone come up with a reason for taking the Reno flight at night in a snowstorm? Reno is quite well equipped for medical services. So are Sacramento and San Francisco which could be easily reached on the ground.
I was taught to fly by an ex-RAF QFI, who taught both military pilots and their instructors. He gave all his pupils two little speeches, both of which have remained with me. He called the autopilot the "dumb pilot". 1) I will not teach you to fly a powered aircraft until you have demonstrated to me that you have good stick and rudder skills. For that you will have to go the gliding club next door. Once you have shown me that you can handle a glider in difficult weather conditions, I will be pleased to teach you. Until then you will be wasting your money and my time. 2) The pilot should ALWAYS be in charge of the aircraft; the dumb pilot must NEVER be in charge. If you wish to reduce your workload, by all means ask the dumb pilot to help, but remember that if you do that then your job is to monitor the aircraft so that you can take back control at any moment of the good Lord's choosing.
I can remember @stevo1kenevo in a great deal of his TBM 850 videos commenting that he'd be watching for rough or bumpy weather and expecting his autopilot to disengage, and it was expected in this aircraft, and was hands ready and focused on instruments just in case it did!?...
i used to fly a C208 for fedx with the old kfc 150 auto pilot. when you encountered the first bump your thumb was on that auto pilot disconnect button because you knew that POS would double whatever turbulence you happened to be in. i suppose it was good in some ways, it at least kept you in the loop because you knew that in the worst conditions you were going to be hand flying that Caravan to the ground! later i flew a 2004 king air 90 with the collins pro line. man that gear was big bucks but i must say it was worth it. in 15 years of flying that king air alone in all kinds of weather in the pacific northwest and alaska that auto pilot NEVER ONCE disconnected period. it had a button on the control panet labeled SR which stood for soft ride. i don't understand why any pilot in the L seat of an aircraft like these would not be able to follow the commands of the flight director. you should be very cautious about climbing in an aircraft like this with a wealthy owner/operator with the ego too big to get some help from someone with more than 500 hours. even a thousand hours is not enough when things go sideways and you have no autopilot. you are maxed out on workload hand flying even when everything is going as you expected. the second it goes sideways you are over your ability to manage everything. we see from these videos what the result is.
Sudden AP disconnects and the PIC’s reaction to that are to blame for too many accidents. Even outside the PC-12: Colgan 3407, Air France 447, Giant 3591, to name a few. With ‘Glass Cockpits’ becoming more common, Many, many Pilots and Students are FAR too reliant on Auto-Pilot and when it disconnects, many forget basic airmanship and hand-flying.
Space shuttle Columbia.....pretty sure that wasnt for lack of expertise. There's a lot going on, I dont know all the human factors issues but when a system is operating "nominally" and then just gives up and hands it over ASAP, that's gonna be a challenge for anyone.
Has nothing to do with glass cockpits, instruments are instruments. Heavy autopilot usage usually comes down to company SOPs and the fact it's incredibly easy to get spacially disoriented, no one is immune.
Oh yeah, I had the autopilot kick off a couple of days ago in moderate wind-shear on a coupled ILS approach. Noisy. Picked the wing up, re-ran finals checks and continued to a greaser. Took about 1 second to get back to wings level. Good video and a good reminder to brush up on those hand-flying skills and unusual attitude recoveries.
Great discussion. It was very clear in the vid that Jaun is talking about a specific airplane and autopilot. It might be very different in your aircraft. I often fly a c210 with an older STEC - I have to manually turn it off when things get rough and warns when it needs manual trim but doesn’t auto disconnect. Callahan (Eastwood) said it best, “a man has to know his limitations “ - add: and that of his craft.
Great analysis as always Juan. Hopefully upset recovery training and other scenarios for single pilot ops. will be made special interest items in initial and recurrent training.
I live off the end of runway 34 at KEIK and see PC-12's shooting approaches all the time here. Pilatus has a factory over at KBJC a few miles away from here. Very interesting presentation.
That g limit for the autopilot is pretty nuts and I bet the lower limit is actually +0.3g (considering +1.0g is the baseline). But that means if you hit a bump that lifts you out of your seat a little, the AP is going to disconnect. Gotta wonder what drives that decision.
Even with flying as my day job, it’s still a handful when the autopilot disconnects randomly.. Throw in some moderate turbulence, icing, weather, etc. and it can get busy pretty quickly.
As always, great presentation here, Juan! It's the other A.D. of aviation that has become a bit of a curse for too many: A.D.= Automation Dependency. Like you said, one must be proficient at hand flying the airplane in weather, turbulence, distraction. **Know thy self, know thy airplane, know thy environment, know thy autopilot, know thy limitations at all times.**
Agreed. Both are fantastic and seemingly have the EXACT personality type you hope your pilot has each time you step on a plane. Level headed, no-nonsense but not over the top as to be rigid in their thinking, etc.. Amazing how good they are at making aviation stories fascinating for even non-pilots like myself.
You nailed it Juan. The most important guidance system on the plane is the pilot. This behoves the pilot to be proficient and ahead of the plane. They should be held to the same standards as us air carrier pilots have to.
its pretty interesting as i am no pilot, just an enthusiast, but as i listen here, i am guessing correctly what to do, i was assuming that once Auto Pilot is engaged, and turbulence outside parameters would upset the aircraft, i guessed red button would disengage correctly, (didn't know it will stop all the alarms and flashing lights, so good to know that, as i never seen the manual) and then reset the auto pilot, seems straight forward enough, but again i guess under any stress of the situation it might be easy to be overwhelmed, over thinking and lose control, spatial awareness and well land badly, shame about loss of lives again great message Juan, hit the red button to din the noise and concentrate on flying first
This type of event reminds me of commercial aircraft crashes such as "Sriwijaya B735 at Jakarta on Jan 9th 2021". The pilots there (to my reading) were flying using all the automation. They had a fault with the throttles which they did not notice and which the AP & AT masked for the majority of the flight. Eventually the AP exceeded its options and said "your aircraft". At this point the aircraft was so far from what the pilots expected (over banked left when they thought they were turning right) and still with massively unbalanced thrust - that I suspect the battle was already lost. Even better & alert pilots would only have saved the day **by never getting into such a faulty condition in the first place**. Although Jakarta and several others were much worse incidents and the aircraft were extremely out of control when the AP gave up, I feel there is a lot in common. 1) Reliance on Automation, 2) Out of Touch with what the aircraft was actually doing, 3) The AP drops them into the problem it's been hiding. Now the PC12 presented less of a real flight problem, but alarms like you're "out of control in a stall". When really only the AOA or G sensors have been confused by the turbulence. And here the pilot will have far less training & experience - so the skill overload is just as bad. Too many people flying like it's MSFS. RIP.
I have 8000 hours in the PC12 since 2003. It is an easy plane to fly in hard IMC conditions. The autopilot is easy to reconnect and a good practice is to always have the heading bug synced with the direction of travel. Just reconnect and hit heading on the flight director. And as always, you must be able to fly the airplane without an autopilot or you don’t belong in the airplane and YOU ARE NOT IFR CURRENT
Assumption: complacency or miscommunication/overtrusting likely caused workers to not deflate tire before disassembly. Tires can be dangerous. Sad day for them, their friends and family.
There should be no question about who is flying the plane: the pilot. The autopilot is a tool for the pilots not an alternative to the pilot. It is designed to increase their comfort and preserve their energy, not to compensate their lack of skill or training. In my opinion the AP disconnect was only an event, not the cause. I believe we can't go around the fact that pilots with few hours dared to fly solo IFR into turbulence, putting others at great risk. Well done explaining the most probable sequence of events after the disconnect!
What I take away from this and Pilot Debrief is that I will always fly commercial (not that I can afford to charter a flight). I am not and have never been a pilot and I don't know enough to determine if the pilot who will be flying me is capable of getting me safely to my destination. I look forward to your videos, thanks for putting them up.
I recall Steveo1Kinevo here on TH-cam mentioning his autopilot disconnecting in mild turbulence on n851TB. I believe there’s even several times it happens during some of his videos.
In my Mooney Bravo I had the Garmin G-500 to a King KFC-165 and a digital to analog converter. I never trusted it more than basic straight and level, climbs and descents. Sometimes turbulence, sometimes a hold, but it would unexpectedly disconnect. I never wanted to trust it and have to play catch up close to the ground.
As a former EMS pilot flying the PC 12 I flew it on all flights single pilot. I also filed IFR flight plans on all FAR 135 flights. I experienced auto pilot dis-connects on several flights. I was qualified on the model 45 (efis model) and the 47 (Apex flat panel). I quickly learned when encountering turbulence reduce speed to maneuvering speed this helps the the autopilot deal with the turbulence. I also learned to avoid moderate and severe turbulence. The PC12-47E NG with the advanced avionics is an awesome airplane but it is not the best choice for a casual pilot. If you cannot fly often the Honeywell Apex avionics suite can be daunting to master. A better choice would be the PC12-45 model with Garmin conventional 430/530 avionics
Just because you are instrument current does not make you instrument proficient!! Don’t be afraid to say no! Waiting for more favorable weather can save your life and the life of your passengers. If you are IMC, and have an autopilot malfunction or disconnect you must return to basics; Aviate,Navigate,Communicate. Do not fall into the “Get There Indus Trap” :leave that beautiful airplane in the hangar or on the ramp!! Live to fly another day. Stay instrument proficient not just instrument current. Attend advanced flight training annually I attended Flight Safety every year in the PC12,Kingair 200,Bell 407. Thanks Juan for another great video!
Thank YOU Geoffery also! Thats ALOT of info you dropped!!
AMEN sir.💪🏽✌🏽
Thanks for the practical experience. Seems like a very significant issue in type.
That's a great resume 😮
🎯👍👍👍👍 Well stated!
wow, we have our explanation!!!!
Pc-12 pilot here. The standard operating procedures that we have require us to hand fly in moderate and greater turbulence as well as reduce to at or below Va manoeuvring speed. It keeps us in a safer flight envelope and also saves our company from replacing auto pilot servos every year. $$$
Are pilots attempting to be lazy by allowing (or relying on) the autopilot to do the flying in turbulent IFR conditions, or do you feel that they end up in those conditions unexpectedly before they are able to shut the autopilot off?
@@workingguy-OU812I don’t think it’s laziness. When you have good A/P you’ll normally let it fly. Unfortunately it appears that too many PC-12 pilots don’t spend enough time hand flying (just like some airline pilots).
@@Trevor_Austin Thank you.
@@KDogg_96
Thankyou Sir as this is what I was trying to enlighten to given the conditions that sometimes are faced in the everyday operations of the service.
I grew up in the areas where I have flown and i know the topography well and I know only to well just how severe the weather can be in a lot of these areas which does include thunderstorms of differing strengths plus other weather phenomena and all that brings its own set of unique flying circumstances.
Sincerely...
Hand fly in “Moderate and greater”. The “…and greater” parameter is what gets me with this statement. That is severe territory which means one’s control of the aircraft is dubious at best. By definition severe turbulence means control is lost no matter how brief the condition exists and the autopilot must be disengaged. But moderate? It’s a problem if an autopilot system cannot handle Moderate turbulence; IMO.
PC-12 pilot here, and I come by it honestly. By that, I mean that I have twenty years and 11,000 hours in various aircraft, and have been an instructor as well as a 135 pilot, 121 pilot, and have several types. Sounds like i'm blowing my own horn, but my point is that the PC-12 is simply too much aircraft for someone who is getting fifty hours a year and doesn't have a good bit of experience behind him.
There have been three accidents at least that fit this profile. In two of the three accidents, the pilot was low time without much experience, and flew into turbulence. An experienced pilot would have simply flown the aircraft. Remember, we are not computer managers, we are pilots. We have to be able to fly. The best message from this video is that we need to be able to fly the aircraft. If you are afraid to fly the aircraft in turbulence, then you shouldn't be there. In our case, despite a wealth of experience spread among three pilots, we always fly with two in any real weather. It costs more. That doesn't matter. We fly with two, when it counts.
See my above comment; I nailed it.
@@mainer1755 “We are not computer managers, we are pilots. We have to be able to fly.” Simple concept yet this continues to happen. Aviate, navigate, communicate is all engrained into our heads but I think some of these low-timers are getting shady and/or inadequate training. “Training” with the sole focus of clocking hours. For some of these newer CFIs, the iPad & AP are everything to them. So I really like the way you said ‘we’re not computer managers’. It’s a simple yet very effective way of communicating an ongoing issue in 121 & 135 when getting into weather.
Blue skies sir and thank you for sharing your knowledge with us.🙏🏼
The similarities in the 2 Pilatus Autopilot Events that Hoover covered, shared one key factor; both pilots had very little time in the PC-12.
I flew Gulfstreams with a former PC-12 pilot. At the slightest onset of turbulence of any intensity he had a lightning-fast reaction to grab the yoke.
PTSD
Well trained Pilot, very NICE!
PCSD! @@anibaldamiao
Shout outs to Hoover for connecting this accident with several others as well that were very similar. 🙏🏼
*Hoover
Hoover
Like the vacuum cleaner. Darn autocorrect 🎸
@@artrogers3985I have a love/hate relationship with autocorrect 😂
@@GuyFromSC You have to monitor the Autocorrect all the time to make sure it's doing what you expect, and hand-retype the word, rather than just hitting ENTER on your post.... :)
As a PC-12 Instructor, one simple rule I stress to my students on a continuous basis…..Someone MUST fly the aircraft….be it the autopilot or the pilot themself. If the autopilot disconnects, just fly the plane.
Use the damn' instruments needs to be reinforced too, as too many rely on tech, rather than basics & that gets them (& anyone else on board)into w real world of hurt when the (inevitable) 'unexpected' happens.
@@GARDENER42 It's just easier to use the tech.
It's hard to fly the plane. That's why they don't do it. Or can't do it. It's too hard. And the autopilot is just easier.
@@Heike--until they crash
Well said.
@@jimsteinway695 Doesn't matter! Just like Boeing, instead of doing the hard work, they'll just accept(or roll the dice) that there will be a crash. It's too hard otherwise. They're going to take the easiest path no matter what. Even at the cost of their own lives and the lives of others. Sounds bizarre but I believe this to be the case. We see this repeat everywhere now.
"Two AOAs....unlike the B737".. I hear you man!!
So awesome... Juan says "Cut" like he's going to edit it out... but left it in anyway. I like it.
737’s have two AOA vanes, always had..
@@ACPilotmcas stupidly only read the data from one though.
@@eliotmansfield Not anymore, now it is both, and compare AOA inputs, if in disagreement MCAS function disabled.
@@ACPilot indeed it is now - but why did it take two fatal crashes for someone to think “oo we have two sensors which are known to fail, we should use both of them and make sure they agree with each other” - seems a pretty basic principle to me
I have over 22 years of experience flying PC-12s. The autopilot is very similar to most including King Airs. The autopilot will disconnect if flown in moderate to severe turbulence. As with all turbine aircraft the pilot needs to regularly train at a professional flight school. If the pilot is not ready or able to hand fly he should not be operating the airplane.
Why is that not obvious to people? It's common sense.
@@cremebrulee4759 It seems pilots get rusty if not flying frequently but don't always admit this, ego maybe? A clean aircraft will build speed rapidly if the bank angle is not corrected quickly, nose drops and you are in the graveyard spiral, that's what can happen in turbulence when IFR or at night. Many passengers and pilots are no longer alive due to pilots overestimating their limitations.
I flew the 12 for 900 hours, I agree, in mod to severe turbulence she will cut off, but always be able to hand fly 🫨
Amen to that. Too many pilots think the autopilot will save their butt or they rely on it too much. Anyone, even a monkey, with just a little experience can fly 1,000 miles with the autopilot, but the tires hit the road when the autopilot gets outside its envelope. It makes me sick to see so many pilots think their IFR ticket is enough and not work hard at staying totally proficient and prepared for surprises.
Let's face it, constant AP use = complacency with non-professional pilots with infrequent hours. The PC-12 and its owner-pilots are victims of its design success and human nature.
The only way to save these rich men & their unfortunate families from their expensive toys is to require much higher minimum continuing flight IMC hours, and that's not gonna happen.
Thanks for giving credit to Hoover too at the end. I saw his video on this beforehand.
That was an excellent explanation of why pilots not on top of their game lose control after the autopilot disconnects. Kudos
I wonder what he knew about the front coming thru Wyoming that day? I no longer fly, but weather guides my life's activities in Wyoming. That front brought some strong surface winds and thunderstorms in the southeast part of the state that day. It seems the thing to do would be to either land and wait it out, or adjust as you enter the front by disengaging the auto pilot and hand flying it thru the front. I equate it to leaving cruise control on in your car when driving thru bad weather. It's best to switch it off until the threat has passed. I think we can reasonably assume what the final report will indicate, and no disrespect to the pilot is implied. Great analysis.
I really like your analogy of the cruise control driving in a thunderstorm. That makes so much sense. I would NEVER engage the cruise control under those circumstances.
I'm not a pilot, but I have friends who are. What most impresses me is the seriousness with which they approach their work. Staying current, practicing, getting simulator time, remaining focused, and training, training, training. Never letting your guard down, never
getting casual or overconfident. One man flies for the airlines, the other for the military.
Flying is many wonderful things, but it is never, ever a time to play games. If you don't know what you're doing or why you're doing it, you should not be flying. Mistakes can be fatal.
Frankly, I think the same rules apply behind the wheel of a car or truck. We see daily, how many people break those rules, and the results are often catastrophic. In the air, its worse.
The Air, even more than the Sea, is terribly, terribly unforgiving of mistakes.
@@greyjay9202
I'm a Commercial Pilot and do both Domestic and International in and from Australia, I was formally an RAAF Pilot in both Fighters and Heavy such as C130, C17 and P3, Now P8..
I take all the Time I can get on Simulators if not through the Airline as not Available other than my Booked Times I ask the Military who Are more than Willing to allow myself Time in there's .
As for that you Write Yes in Terms Of Truck Drivers and for that matter Bus, Train Drivers.
Anyone who has Lives in their Hands needs to Stay Right In The Moment..
At Times their May Not be a Second Chance....
They must be professionals. Its rich guys with too much money that think they can buy these aircraft then with minimal training go into IMC weather and handle anything. Its their stories we see on Juan’s channel
Totally, thats why I get extremely irritated when you hear people saying things like "it was just a routine flight" ..Nope. Never. As soon as those engines start to spool and you mess up you can die... let alone screwing it in the air. Flight is an extremely precise game, take ur eye off the ball for a second, forget a chk item your toast.
A very long time ago when I was learning to fly, my instructor would have me put on the “hood” (so I could only see the instrument panel) and do all kinds of maneuvers to disorient me. That was lotsa fun - but it sure did build confidence for flying IMC.
@blancolirio Slightly incorrect - the trim trigger WILL disconnect AP but NOT YD if it depressed. The red AP disconnect button will disengage AP and YD at the same time. The CWS Control Wheel Steering button on the top of the right yoke arm will release the AP clutches and "reset" the FD to allow for manual control of the airplane, but you must hold that button down because when you release it, t he AP clutches re-engage.
Was a PC-12 test pilot for 22 years....
Love your channel!
See little stuff like this a person need to be put in different simulated scenarios to understand this stuff. You can easily mistake one for the other seems like
Yeah, I noticed that he had a good technical ground school understanding of the book, but that he hadn't flown the system (or flown the system enough) to know how it actually all fit together.
Your description of the trim trigger is incorrect. The trigger will disconnect the AP but leave the yaw damper engaged. There is a TCS (touch control steering) button on the inboard horn of the yoke that will temporarily disconnect the AP while the button is held and the AP will re-engage when the button is released.
The pictures of the cockpit accompanying the description in the first 5 minutes of the video are of a PC-12NG. The text shown of the items that will disconnect the AP are for a legacy PC-12. The AP systems are not the same.
If you can’t fly IMC without an autopilot, and/or a flight director, you can’t fly; you’re just a system operator.
Or just a passenger!
...not even a system operator IMHO.
Honestly the more I watch this channel the more I think people who can afford airplanes think these things are Tesla's... and they are but not in a good way and at 1000's of feet in the air.
but yet it still happens
No, in that case you’re just a video game simulator pilot.
I've spent so much time verifying the two AoA indicators on PC-12s during maintenance.
Have been working on autopilots for 40 years on everything from a C172 to a B777. Most autopilots will disconnect if the autopilot ability to keep up with a sudden change that exceeds the autopilots ability to make the necessary changes to keep up. The cheaper the autopilot the lower the limits it will disengage. Not much warning indication on the cheaper less sophisticated systems. I think a lot of newer pilots that are buying older airplanes with older autopilots that are very limited performance are over relying on the autopilots to compensate for lack of experience and skills in marginal or dangerous conditions. Most of these older autopilots are unreliable and fail when they are needed the most. Juan has covered several accidents where you could see the writing on the wall with some of the earlier video’s the victims posted on UT.
Correct - I have a low-cost AP and I need to be ready to grab the stick when it gets a little bit bumpy.
The AP flies much much better than I do when it's relatively smooth, and I wonder why the AP manufacturers don't produce an AP that will handle *any* situation. For example, with the Garmin autoland, what happens if the pilot has a medical issue in bumpy weather, the passenger presses the autoland button, and the AP says "sorry, too bumpy for me!"
Juan and Hoover are the 2 best content creators on TH-cam. Really glad to see you both looking into this issue. I thought his was very good and then Juan's additional info/ perspective and breakdown of the actual auto pilot system was awesome.
Juan is the best for sure. Just ask him.
Thanks, Juan. Great explanation of the autopilot and its limitations! 
Excellent explanation of potential problems with a flight like this one. I watched Hoover the other day and he was right!
PC-12 Pilot here, most in Series 10 /45, but enough in NG/47Es. All Pilatus PC-12s have three ways to kill you that go beyond the last instruction of "fly the airplane." The theme of this post is that if the autopilot is ON, your hands and feet must remain on the controls and your eyes on the instruments, and together you and the A/P are flying the airplane. The autopilot must fly *through* the pilot so if without warning the autopilot disconnects -- it happens fairly frequently -- the pilot merely tightens his/her grip and continues as before. The trouble comes when an amateur decides to "put the autopilot ON" and then "lets the A/P fly while I do something else." If/when I saw that tendency in a new guy, we'd have THE TALK.
But back to the "three ways" the Pilatus PC-12 tries to kill you:
[1] is the electric trim runs away (fails an welds itself ON) and moments later kicks off the autopilot, the mentally unprepared pilot will be distracted and frightened. A pilot who is forced to grab for the controls and try to settle the airplane into controlled flight is at a big risk here. Unfortunately, you have maybe 6-8 seconds to INTERRUPT a runaway trim or the airplane becomes 100% unflyable and Neil Armstrong himself couldn't recover (although I'm sure you, he, and I would keep trying to the end). The moving stab has way more authority than elevator pitch so you don't have a chance, and there is no manual reversion in trim. When you hear the BEEP-BEEP-BEEP of runaway trim you must instinctively and immediately go to the pilot's right knee position on the pedestal, flip the plastic cover up and press the TRIM INTERRUPT rocker switch; then find the TWO CIRCUITS BREAKERS for Main and A/P trim and pull them (top forward right, top forward left); reposition the INTERRUPT to NORMAL ... and if you get this far, practice with a senior guy or instructor's help to complete salvation of your airplane and return to normal, controlled flight. FAIL IN STOPPING THE TRIM RUNAWAY? YOU AND EVERYONE ONBOARD DIES.
[2] Uncommanded stick pusher. Push and hold middle red button on either control wheel, find and pull Stick Pusher Circuit Breaker. (left side, bottom row, full forward.)
[3] Cabin depressurizes? Find and put on your mask; direct or assist other pilot to put on his/her mask; start emergency descent; verify passenger oxygen is AUTO/ON (if passengers onboard); notify ATC. Complete the emergency descent by running the checklist. Killer item: get your masks on and ensure the lever is up and you're both breathing O2.
I do these three drills every leg, every time, after stabilized in cruise. I ask the copilot to do them for me every other leg to keep him/her in the loop. The runaway trim/autopilot disconnect is the risk I respect most.
There's actually a fourth emergency that you prepare for during the entire flight. ENGINE FAILURE. It may be a remote possibility (fewer than one forced PT6 failure every 300,000 hours) but you always have to constantly know in which direction you'll turn if the engine quits. The rest of the checklist is a tradeoff in problems to solve and procedures. (If I were you, I'll immediately kill power to pitot, AOA, and windshield heat so I'd have a battery to help me fly and land 30 mi0nutes later. Heaters take a lot of juice.) The PC-12 is easy to forced land: if there's an airport within gliding distance (and you're gliding about 15:1, so that's really good), and if you're on your game, you have a high probability of pulling it off with a perfectly intact airplane and uninjured humans.
It is shocking to realize that there are many pilots out there flying around at night over sparsely populated areas and/or in IMC weather who are completely incapable of hand-flying their airplanes should their autopilots suddenly fail. And even worse: family, colleagues and friends board these airplanes many times a day and unwittingly put their total faith and trust in these unqualified pilots.
It really is. Pilots who don't understand that they have to be capable of hand-flying don't respect flying.
The thing is they are likely capable of flying without autopilot but when the auto pilot kicks out in weather / night /turbulent conditions it maybe already in a unusual attitude which would require a high level of proficiency to recover before speed builds up and any panic at this time could be fatal, it sounds easy sitting here but if it gets away on you things happen fast...lots of pilots some professional have come up short.
Children of the magenta was foretelling of the airline world, but these private pilots are many times worse, completely reliant on the AP to rescue them from something they are incapable of handling.
I flew early SN PC12s, single pilot IFR on EMS missions, the autopilot was usable in smooth calm air. It was worthless in the weather and mountains. I just turned it off and hand flew it most of time.
Seems like an adage might be: the autopilot is to handle the monotony. The interesting times are for the pilot.
If you’re relying on an autopilot to get you through the difficult flying, you might not be qualified to be the pilot.
Same for the cruise control on a car.
Our CE340 was like that! The KFC200 was OK in smooth weather, and it would couple to an ILS ok, but was worthless in bumps up high. You just had to hand fly the airplane, a CE340 can hop around on you, it has a kind of small wing/ w tips tanks. The first few times it can really surprise you, nothing like it was practiced in my Insurance training at Vero beach.
Thanks for your explanation Juan. That looks like a lot of airplane for a single pilot in IMC flight.
Retired USAF/commercial guy. Except for below Cat I approaches, the autopilot is almost always nothing more than a tedium reliever. Whenever things start going sideways, the first reaction for most seasoned pilots is to disconnect the automation and hand fly it simply because it's easier and more intuitive than wrestling with buttons, regardless of IMC or VMC.
Make sense…. But how hard is it to hand fly in turbulence after disconnecting AP? Could it be so difficult it’s hard to get back in front of the plane?
@@Ken-harris In my opinion, it's not difficult as long as you can read the instruments.😜 It is tiring for any length of time though.
I would maintain that in turbulence it's still easy to hand fly. For one thing the autopilot feedback loop may be insufficient to deal with it. A hand-flying pilot can make quicker adjustments that are smaller, and dampen out the responses by not over-reacting, whereas an autopilot might be slow to respond and make larger inputs out of synch with the variable conditions. In effect, the pilot is acting like a shock absorber for the controls. It's a combination of making small(er) immediate adjustments or not reacting at all to momentary deviations, which is a long way of saying it requires an intuitive "feel", something the best feedback loop can't calculate.
@@pi-sx3mb
I see … thanks
Maybe an auto “FLY THE EFFING PLANE “ announcement is required on disconnect.
As crazy as it sound I agree 1000% and I’m not kidding
When I teach, I tell all my IFR students the auto pilot can be your best friend or worst night mare. What it becomes is up to you understanding how it works and always be ready to hand fly. These crashes are senseless and frustrating. Very sad!
Very well said!
Great overview of the PC-12 auto pilot. The aircraft is very complex for a single engine design and the avionics and displays are such that private pilots really have no reason to own one unless they can afford a professional flight school and continuation training on the aircraft.
i disagree. ive been flying the pc12 for a few years now and I feel the avionics are very user friendly with the proper training.
Spot on buddy.
If you’re not up to the task, admit it, hire a professional and press on. Out of control ego’s have been an ongoing problem in aviation right from the early days.
Be smart and live - Be stupid and die.
Remember the poster we’ve all seen - “Aviation is not inherently dangerous, but to an even greater degree
than the sea , it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, or neglect”.
Thank you for all you do Juan. Take Care and Be Well.
Always liked this one.
...and how do you know when you're not going to be up to the task. Oh right, you don't, in most cases of forecasts of IMC along the route, far enough ahead of time to hire said pilot.
Didn't consider that did you. Speaking of not thinking it through...😉
@@berenonehand I would say this is the trick to staying alive, Dad flew commercial 42 years, when I was young heard him say the secret to staying alive in aviation is knowing your limitations. If you don't hand fly often in hard IFR it might be a problem one turbulent night when the autopilot kicks off and you are quired to recover from a unusual attitude. It's up to you to think this through, if you can't evaluate your ability I feel sorry for your passengers, one reason I am very careful which pilot's I fly with.
@@dwaynemcallister7231 I wonder though - is having to successfully and consistently hand-fly out of rough nighttime IMC when the AP suddenly shuts off part of single-pilot single-engine turbo licensing requirements?
If not, it should be.
It's hard to know what your limitations are if they were never evaluated.
Love the 737 blooper
Sad thing is it's not a blooper
Cut
I think he forgot to cut it out
Glad he didn't cut it out, that was funny.
It's nice to see someone at his level of professionalism make a mistake. He's human after all.
The PC12 is a Very Unforgiving Aircraft if your not staying on top of your Immediate Outside Environment.
The Design of the Aircraft itself whilst Excellent has some Limitations in Terms of the Aircrafts Handling Characteristics Especially in Bad Weather and in that of even somewhat Suspect Conditions and this is why many Australian Pilots would rather a Hands on Approach to this Aircraft in many Environments as we believe it could be better than the Alternative and in today's Operational Environment you can't afford a Problem in this Aeroplane.
That which is affecting more and more Aircraft being Clear Air Turbulence is also a Big Problem in the PC12 in Auto Pilot Mode and you really need to be Very much in Tune with This Planes Systems and it's Control Characteristics or just don't Fly it if you feel your Not Comfortable with it.
Nicely Explained Video Captain....
Just hand fly it if looks sketchy- sounds like sop?
If youre paying attention and had the proper training, the pc12 is unbelievably easy to fly.
@@michaelgarrow3239
I thought about that before i sent it believe me as I was trying to put the whole thing into the Broader Context Summarising of just how she handled in varying situations and the one I flew was pretty much in that realm of needing to be Hand Nursed through some pretty Sketchy areas at best and not the kind of places that would normally employ that of as you say SOP but that's just what we sometimes had to deal with and I guess still being here today is either Luck or a Bit of Skill as well.
But in the Greater Context relating to all which is then SOP is always Best but don't bet your Life on it...
@@bagels377
Yes it is and I have had the Proper Training I assure you...
Maybe re-write your original post John it's very confusing to read and you have random capitalized words throughout. CAT is a meteorological phenomena associated with jet streams, I think you mean convective activity, or updrafts. The highest PC12 operators in Australia will take their planes is mid to high 20's in the flight levels, never into the 30's where the southern jetstream begin.
5:20 is simply... precious! Mmmm, mmm, Soooo Good!
Generally speaking, Juan, you do Yeoman's work here. Your rational, typically delicate and deliberate approach to aviation events definitively distinguishes you from many others in the current cray-cray "notice-me" aviation commentary world. Thank you for being cool and real! (+10K hr ATP +4k hr CFI)
Love seeing you guys come together! Hoover is very knowledgeable as well!!!
Thank you Cap Juan Brown, Its always interesting listening to you.
You hit the nail on the head right at the end...... You have a $7 million aeroplane, plus the running costs etc to take you, your family or customers around. You do not fly it single pilot, just because Pilatus say it is SP certified ! For $400 a day, you get someone else next to you who can work with you and if you suffer a problem, can get the aeroplane down safely.
I did 30 years in the airlines as multi crew, I now fly a PC-12, have 600 hours in it over 3 years. I fly for a family, the owner flies with me and he is competent, but not rated. If he is not available, I get someone with me when passengers are on board. A delightful aeroplane to fly in all conditions, but as with any aeroplane - respect weather, conditions and know what your back ups are if things get a little gnarly.
Great comment. I was the "2nd pilot" for a CE340 Owner for 3 years. We flew all over the US safely but conservatively. Flying GA aircraft ( Piston Twins anyway) to a schedule can end you.
You and Hoover are my go-to guys... Mentour more for entertainment.
Same.
There are a lot of hard lessons in Mentour videos. They explain why there are lot of rule or procedure changes that may not make sense, its because they were written in the blood of those who paid the ultimate price. Something younger pilots dont know of. Eg. I turn on strobes entering any runway, jr pilots ask me why, and I send them Mentour's review of 1991 US Air and SkyWest at LAX. Jr pilots arent picking up on the lessons of accidents past.
@@donwhitton7791 Yes... Mentour more of the large-scale accidents/FU's... but he does give the pilots lots of slack, refuses to cast blame... Hoover is good at calling a doof a doof.
@@scowell the aviation system is safer for not "casting blame", but understanding that humans are humams, and that we are all fallable. If we go around casting blame then things will get covered up (people won't report) and we won't learn of small errors that can cause larger ones (Boeing culture). Hoover doesn't cast blame, he points out where people have stepped into situations beyond their capacity or training. This isn't their fault but part of the human condition. We are all guilty of this at some point during our lives, in various diciplines or situations. If you 100% all the time you aren't human, you're a robot (as long as it has been programmed correctly)
I’m a PC-12 instructor, sadly we’ve had a few of these over the years.
If you get a high altitude upset, disconnect, or shaker/pusher, the next few moments are going to be critical.
Focus on your PFD, maintain level flight and a flying attitude, do NOT obsess on maintaining altitude. I’m afraid this is a big factor. Notify ATC unable altitude or just declare an emergency.
Fly the Plane, Fly the Plane.
High altitude stall recoveries are not like the low ones we do in the plane or Sim. I encourage everybody to request high altitude upsets with moderate/severe turbulence. It’s an eye opener and humbling.
If you’re in icing mode the speed protection envelope is scheduled higher as well. Pitch attitude is much more sensitive and the attitude will be very flat or even nose down for a while to regain energy.
Keep an eye on the AOA/Dynamic Speed circle. It needs to get below your pointer on speed tape before you start pulling in back pressure.
I guarantee, if you get a shaker/pusher event at high altitudes, you will likely initiate a recovery that results in a secondary stall event. None of us are smooth when startled.
At FL260, there wasn’t anything to hit in the continental US for another 11,000’. Just accepting the altitude loss could have been the difference.
Remember, in these scenarios, your only job is flying, ATC works for you at this point.
Be safe out there folks, know your limits, know the aircraft limits, and fly smart.
Atlanta to Seattle, 8hrs flying time, 2 en-route stops. This is a tough day for the best of us. perhaps a $1000/day co-pilot on this trip may have been a worthy expense.
Good advice, and I wonder how many of these accidents were caused by pilots being afraid of a violation by deviating from their clearance?
@@igclapp speaking from my own experience, it’s your first instinct.
In my early flying days a WW2 Hump pilot told me, “the same cloud that takes you up, will bring you back down”…his advice to me as a student pilot, training in the mountains, was never fight the updraft or downdraft…it’s a philosophy that kept him from becoming a part of the “aluminum trail”.
80 y/o advice that still rings true.
Non Pilot here. Just an over the hill 75 year old with a non-professional observation. From a Human Factors perspective, what good is automation that adds excessive panel resource management requirements and distractive multiple warnings, when a focus on flying skills is needed. Automation that adds excessive complexity which interferes with pilot decision making, is not effective automation. Perhaps there needs to be a human factors evaluation regarding the design of the PC 12 flight deck controls. As Juan described all of the various options for managing the flight deck AutoPilot, my head was swimming (well spinning and stalling) Too many options and buttons to keep track of. Automation should not increase decision making workload. I think Musk's design mantra has been ... keep it simple. If it is not needed get rid of it. The more stuff you have to deal with, the more points of failure.
It's a pretty standard design. Everything you need to know is right in front of you on the EADI which you should be monitoring constantly. Everything else is just mode select panels. It's normal to have multiple warnings when the AP trips out.
Ex pilot here with several 1000s hrs on Dassault tri jets. Completely agree with this comment. The fact that the PC-12 is certified single pilot doesn’t change the fact that it’s potentially as demanding as a two crew aircraft when things go off script. We are only human and there’s a lot of information to process with these flight systems. Pilot proficiency may be an issue but we can all have a bad day and never assume that the unfortunate victim/s were in some way less competent than ourselves.
I disagree that the PC 12 is too complicated. You get the warnings, hit the red button and FLY THE AIRPLANE! If you are proficient at instrument flying, then this wouldn't even make the news.
Re replies, I can see why Juan emphasized the need for training and yearly refresher training. If you are trained, you can handle surprises and make correct quick decisions without having to figure things out. For those that are trained, proficient and current... I'd hire you in a heartbeat to fly the PC 12... if I had the money for one. When Juan went through all the decisions that needed to be made in the turbulent IMC situation, my unfamiliarized Brain went into freeze. Couldn't keep up with it even on a video. It's perhaps a bit like PIckleball. At first... not so good. Nine years later, hardly have to think about how when and where to be to return the ball. All automatic, fast response, wrist and racquet positioned for returns. No time to sit and think about it. Just know and do.
I saw Hoover's (Pilot Debrief's) post pop up but hadn't watched it. Now I will. Thanks, Juan. Excellent analysis as usual!
Thanks!
Wow! Thanks Ben!
Nice one
The problem doesn't seem to be the autopilot disconnect as much as the decision to fly a high performance complex pressurized aircraft as a single pilot while relying on autopilot as MAIN PILOT instead than just as support to relieve fatigue.
Absolutely 100% correct. If you can't hand fly at least as well as the autopilot, then you have no business using the autopilot until you can.
@@BKD70 or if your just not current and take way too long to recognise and issue and loose control
Retired USAF Autopilot Tech here. This is a very good description of a common thread I see on many YT crash videos. Too much ego involved in many of these GA accidents.
@@wayne9638 Yes, which goes right back to the point that if you can't hand fly at least as well as the autopilot, then you have no business using the autopilot until your skills are developed enough that you can.
Juan, I always enjoy your content. It was also super nice to listen to you emcee the Stol Wars in Independence last week, just a few miles from home. Thanks for all you do.
Thanks a million Mr Browne. I think this bird has a very high dollar price tag. I'm thinkin havin a copilot fly with me for a couple hundred hours till I get comfortable is a great idea. 👍👍👍✈️✈️✈️✈️
When you press the trim trigger on the back of the yoke while autopilot is on the autopilot will disconnect completely but will leave the yaw damp on. In order for the autopilot to turn back on you need to reselect the autopilot button.
Lots of the wealthy guys who can afford this very high performance aircraft are too busy making money to be essentially a semi- professional pilot- believe me, when that autopilot kicks off in IFR conditions in turbulent conditions, you better be a very skilled pilot or you’re going into the marble orchard. The plane you can afford isn’t necessarily the plane you should buy.
Juan is an insightful, informative, class-act as always.
Aviate, navigate, communicate. How many times have you and others drummed this into us? So many that it is inexcusable not to follow this very basic rule. Spacial awareness should never be an issue IF you use and trust your instruments. These pilots had plenty of altitude [=time] but simply failed to fly the plane. Hoover is right. If you can afford the plane, you can afford the simple safe guards he mentioned. I believe too many overestimate their competence. Anyone can fly a plane when everything is going well, heck they fly themselves [even without auto pilot] but it is when things go wrong you have to, as Goose in Top gun said "do some of that pilot shit". Very sad outcomes that could have been avoided. Thanks again Juan.
I don't know anything about aviation and yet I LOVE THIS CHANNEL BECAUSE IT TEACHES ME TO UNDERSTAND THE SUBJECT.
Juan
I have been flying the PC12 Single Pilot off and on since November 1997.
I have about 12,000 hrs and over 5,200 hrs in Pilatus Aircraft of all variants. It’s a stable platform that is easy to fly. I would take it over the other 1/2 dozen Turboprop aircraft I also have flown.
These accidents are simply a matter of pilots that are not competent to handle the aircraft, plain and simple!
Amen
Just because you are very wealthy doesn't mean you have the pilotage skills for IFR flight. A customer of a company I use to work for ran into the same thing. Different aircraft type, same result. The safety pilot fell down on the job. His life insurance company required one. Four fatalities.
What about all the “for hire” pilots that crash?
I absolutely love Hoovers channel. Like you, experienced, humble, knowlegable, objective and respectful. Id love for you, Hoover, Kelsey and Petter to get together and do a show.
And if you are a large EMS company making millions in profits per year, you can afford to pay two pilots as well.
I have 2000 hours PC12NG time. All single pilot. Still alive.
@@jasoncrandall That definitely wasn't the point
@jasoncrandall not a good idea. Even as they are pressuring the airlines to do this.
If they can’t afford two pilots…I’d hate to see what the mechanics make.
In the us no you will only find single pilot unless a hospital program specifically asks and pays for a dual crew. Royal flying doctors flies dual. Most of EU ops I’d imagine is dual. The us market will never pay for dual crew until the government fixes the horrendous payments for flights.
My best friend has told me time and again the pilots that get complacent with auto pilots don't know what to do when they get in the soup of something happening outside the box of conditions they normally fly in.
Thank you Juan ❤
Thanks for recognizing Hover.
My experience with AP disconnects is that the airplane can be way out of trim when it kicks out. Distracting the single pilot at critical moments when the pilot's attention should be elsewhere.
Like Juan has said many times , you have to stay ahead of the plane and know what its going to do.
Another great, to the point video, Mr. Brown!!
Juan, I was buying a few shirts from the High Seas Trading Co, Hawaiian Shirts, and thought of you. They have two shirts 1) Vintage Aircraft and 2) American Military Aircraft. Made in the USA and based out of Laguna Hills, CA. Great shirts. I have a closet full of 'em. If you have time, take a look. Thanks for sharing info on the PC-12
YOU are always flying the aeroplane regardless of whether the autopilot is on or off.Thank you again Juan for such a great analysis.
It should be noted that different models of pc-12 have different autopilot panels. I have about 3500 hours in the Pilatus. The standard “-47” was not only more clunky than the newer AFCS panels, but also WAY more sensitive to autopilot disconnects in turbulence. Which I believe a lot of these loss of control accidents have been in. Much like the Reno medevac crash that broke up in flight.
Has anyone come up with a reason for taking the Reno flight at night in a snowstorm? Reno is quite well equipped for medical services. So are Sacramento and San Francisco which could be easily reached on the ground.
@@AlanSanderson-u4t not that I know of. I think the NTSB is still working on their final report.
Juan, I’m always impressed by your ability to explain things so concisely. Keep up the good work! Cheers from Montana
I was taught to fly by an ex-RAF QFI, who taught both military pilots and their instructors. He gave all his pupils two little speeches, both of which have remained with me. He called the autopilot the "dumb pilot".
1) I will not teach you to fly a powered aircraft until you have demonstrated to me that you have good stick and rudder skills. For that you will have to go the gliding club next door. Once you have shown me that you can handle a glider in difficult weather conditions, I will be pleased to teach you. Until then you will be wasting your money and my time.
2) The pilot should ALWAYS be in charge of the aircraft; the dumb pilot must NEVER be in charge. If you wish to reduce your workload, by all means ask the dumb pilot to help, but remember that if you do that then your job is to monitor the aircraft so that you can take back control at any moment of the good Lord's choosing.
Former military pilot here. Bottom line, single pilot IFR/IMC is tough. Takes a proficient, knowledgeable, current pilot to handle it.
I can remember @stevo1kenevo in a great deal of his TBM 850 videos commenting that he'd be watching for rough or bumpy weather and expecting his autopilot to disengage, and it was expected in this aircraft, and was hands ready and focused on instruments just in case it did!?...
Two great reports from Juan and Hoover.
i used to fly a C208 for fedx with the old kfc 150 auto pilot. when you encountered the first bump your thumb was on that auto pilot disconnect button because you knew that POS would double whatever turbulence you happened to be in. i suppose it was good in some ways, it at least kept you in the loop because you knew that in the worst conditions you were going to be hand flying that Caravan to the ground! later i flew a 2004 king air 90 with the collins pro line. man that gear was big bucks but i must say it was worth it. in 15 years of flying that king air alone in all kinds of weather in the pacific northwest and alaska that auto pilot NEVER ONCE disconnected period. it had a button on the control panet labeled SR which stood for soft ride. i don't understand why any pilot in the L seat of an aircraft like these would not be able to follow the commands of the flight director. you should be very cautious about climbing in an aircraft like this with a wealthy owner/operator with the ego too big to get some help from someone with more than 500 hours. even a thousand hours is not enough when things go sideways and you have no autopilot. you are maxed out on workload hand flying even when everything is going as you expected. the second it goes sideways you are over your ability to manage everything. we see from these videos what the result is.
Sudden AP disconnects and the PIC’s reaction to that are to blame for too many accidents. Even outside the PC-12:
Colgan 3407, Air France 447, Giant 3591, to name a few.
With ‘Glass Cockpits’ becoming more common, Many, many Pilots and Students are FAR too reliant on Auto-Pilot and when it disconnects, many forget basic airmanship and hand-flying.
Space shuttle Columbia.....pretty sure that wasnt for lack of expertise. There's a lot going on, I dont know all the human factors issues but when a system is operating "nominally" and then just gives up and hands it over ASAP, that's gonna be a challenge for anyone.
Has nothing to do with glass cockpits, instruments are instruments. Heavy autopilot usage usually comes down to company SOPs and the fact it's incredibly easy to get spacially disoriented, no one is immune.
This was the perfect explanation I was looking for because I was thinking maybe a software glitch was happening
Oh yeah, I had the autopilot kick off a couple of days ago in moderate wind-shear on a coupled ILS approach. Noisy. Picked the wing up, re-ran finals checks and continued to a greaser. Took about 1 second to get back to wings level. Good video and a good reminder to brush up on those hand-flying skills and unusual attitude recoveries.
Great discussion. It was very clear in the vid that Jaun is talking about a specific airplane and autopilot.
It might be very different in your aircraft. I often fly a c210 with an older STEC - I have to manually turn it off when things get rough and warns when it needs manual trim but doesn’t auto disconnect.
Callahan (Eastwood) said it best, “a man has to know his limitations “ - add: and that of his craft.
Great analysis as always Juan. Hopefully upset recovery training and other scenarios for single pilot ops. will be made special interest items in initial and recurrent training.
Always presuming that pilots with egos deem such training necessary.
I live off the end of runway 34 at KEIK and see PC-12's shooting approaches all the time here. Pilatus has a factory over at KBJC a few miles away from here. Very interesting presentation.
Great advice!! These are not toys!!! Due your due diligence, bone up on your flight skills if you own one of these planes!!!
Excellent work Juan, needed to be said.
That g limit for the autopilot is pretty nuts and I bet the lower limit is actually +0.3g (considering +1.0g is the baseline). But that means if you hit a bump that lifts you out of your seat a little, the AP is going to disconnect. Gotta wonder what drives that decision.
I had my AP use a parachute and leave the plane. Thanks Juan Browne
Even with flying as my day job, it’s still a handful when the autopilot disconnects randomly.. Throw in some moderate turbulence, icing, weather, etc. and it can get busy pretty quickly.
As always, great presentation here, Juan! It's the other A.D. of aviation that has become a bit of a curse for too many: A.D.= Automation Dependency. Like you said, one must be proficient at hand flying the airplane in weather, turbulence, distraction. **Know thy self, know thy airplane, know thy environment, know thy autopilot, know thy limitations at all times.**
Juan and Hover really have the best and most informative aviation channels.
Agreed. Both are fantastic and seemingly have the EXACT personality type you hope your pilot has each time you step on a plane. Level headed, no-nonsense but not over the top as to be rigid in their thinking, etc.. Amazing how good they are at making aviation stories fascinating for even non-pilots like myself.
You nailed it Juan. The most important guidance system on the plane is the pilot. This behoves the pilot to be proficient and ahead of the plane. They should be held to the same standards as us air carrier pilots have to.
Shout-out to Hoover: pure Juan Brown class.
Looks like a nice boat you're broadcasting from there, Mr Juan....
Lol...the new crib...
its pretty interesting as i am no pilot, just an enthusiast, but as i listen here, i am guessing correctly what to do, i was assuming that once Auto Pilot is engaged, and turbulence outside parameters would upset the aircraft, i guessed red button would disengage correctly, (didn't know it will stop all the alarms and flashing lights, so good to know that, as i never seen the manual) and then reset the auto pilot, seems straight forward enough, but again i guess under any stress of the situation it might be easy to be overwhelmed, over thinking and lose control, spatial awareness and well land badly, shame about loss of lives again
great message Juan, hit the red button to din the noise and concentrate on flying first
This type of event reminds me of commercial aircraft crashes such as "Sriwijaya B735 at Jakarta on Jan 9th 2021". The pilots there (to my reading) were flying using all the automation. They had a fault with the throttles which they did not notice and which the AP & AT masked for the majority of the flight. Eventually the AP exceeded its options and said "your aircraft". At this point the aircraft was so far from what the pilots expected (over banked left when they thought they were turning right) and still with massively unbalanced thrust - that I suspect the battle was already lost. Even better & alert pilots would only have saved the day **by never getting into such a faulty condition in the first place**.
Although Jakarta and several others were much worse incidents and the aircraft were extremely out of control when the AP gave up, I feel there is a lot in common. 1) Reliance on Automation, 2) Out of Touch with what the aircraft was actually doing, 3) The AP drops them into the problem it's been hiding.
Now the PC12 presented less of a real flight problem, but alarms like you're "out of control in a stall". When really only the AOA or G sensors have been confused by the turbulence. And here the pilot will have far less training & experience - so the skill overload is just as bad.
Too many people flying like it's MSFS. RIP.
I have 8000 hours in the PC12 since 2003. It is an easy plane to fly in hard IMC conditions. The autopilot is easy to reconnect and a good practice is to always have the heading bug synced with the direction of travel. Just reconnect and hit heading on the flight director. And as always, you must be able to fly the airplane without an autopilot or you don’t belong in the airplane and YOU ARE NOT IFR CURRENT
Hey Juan, can you do video on the airplane tire explosion that killed two matinance workers back east.
Need some detailed info...nothing yet.
Assumption: complacency or miscommunication/overtrusting likely caused workers to not deflate tire before disassembly. Tires can be dangerous. Sad day for them, their friends and family.
Thank you for the 737 thought.
There should be no question about who is flying the plane: the pilot. The autopilot is a tool for the pilots not an alternative to the pilot. It is designed to increase their comfort and preserve their energy, not to compensate their lack of skill or training. In my opinion the AP disconnect was only an event, not the cause. I believe we can't go around the fact that pilots with few hours dared to fly solo IFR into turbulence, putting others at great risk. Well done explaining the most probable sequence of events after the disconnect!
What I take away from this and Pilot Debrief is that I will always fly commercial (not that I can afford to charter a flight). I am not and have never been a pilot and I don't know enough to determine if the pilot who will be flying me is capable of getting me safely to my destination. I look forward to your videos, thanks for putting them up.
Thank you, keep working.
A/P disconnects are fairly common in the series 10. The NG I don't think I ever had one, the NG had trim runaways though.
I agree, I’ve had many disconnects in “legacy” PC12’s with on,y 1 or 2 in NG’s, that’s with about 9000 hrs on type.
I recall Steveo1Kinevo here on TH-cam mentioning his autopilot disconnecting in mild turbulence on n851TB. I believe there’s even several times it happens during some of his videos.
Pilot says:
I’ve got 12,457 hours of time logged, 12,000 of that are auto pilot time, in 25 years of flying…. Now how is that current?
I'd say no, go fly a single engine once in awhile that has ZERO automation.
@@Garth2011going no engine wing suit flying is best training of all
@@Garth2011 Correct, steam gauges only and no iPad
@@kamakaziozzie3038 Proximity wingsuit flying - keep your terrain reading on point, just in case
Spirit Airlines…. Dedicated route Jacksonville fl to Dallas tx .. all autopilot
In my Mooney Bravo I had the Garmin G-500 to a King KFC-165 and a digital to analog converter. I never trusted it more than basic straight and level, climbs and descents. Sometimes turbulence, sometimes a hold, but it would unexpectedly disconnect. I never wanted to trust it and have to play catch up close to the ground.
There is also the crash of N273SM on Friday 24 February 2023 near Stagecoach, NV.
Yes! No one seems to be connecting this one as well. It looks very similar as far as flight data
Thank you, Juan.
some sage advice from Juan, great stuff
"unlike Boeing.... cut..." 🤣🤣 Glad you left that part in there.
So you’re saying I should keep my “Hand fly for Harambe” sticker on my flight bag? lol 😂
Always a wannabe comedian keyboard idiot in the comments. You won!!