BARITONE reacts to SCARPIA Legends (MACNEILL, MILNES)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 พ.ค. 2022
- I dissect what I hear in the amazing performances of Scarpia's "Va, Tosca" by the incomparable Cornell Macneill and Sherrill Milnes. I adore both of these singers for their artistry and performances, and as I was learning this role, I frequently referred to their interpretations. I listen a lot to what they express through their voice and how they use their technique to send out their sound and capture the character and style of Puccini. Unfortunately, I didn't sing the role but I did want to share my process for preparing it. Coming soon, Bastianini!!!!
![How to actually SING Scarpia! Cornell Macneil - Tre sbirri... Te Deum [Tosca] - 1978](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nX8drHhYSMg/mqdefault.jpg)
There's been a lot of great baritones in this role over the years. MacNeil was one and everyone loves Gobbi. But for me if anyone ever WAS Scarpia both visually and vocally, it was Sherrill Milnes. Inhabited the role, looked the part and then added that beautiful voice that he used with such intelligence and an absolutely menacing sense of dramatic impact.
Would love to see a reaction video where you react to some of your own performances! Would love to hear what you liked about what you did and what you would do differently, and how a role changes/develops over time
It’s in the works!!!!
Keep the suggestions coming tho
Sherrill Milnes is really easy to love for his brilliant sound, his musicianship, and his dramatic talents, but as much as I’ve always loved him, experience to this point has led me to conclude that his vocal technique is NOT to be emulated. Read his autobiography - he devotes a whole chapter to the “decade of panic” when his voice finally blew out, and he just could not (and probably still cannot) fathom that it could have been the way he was singing that eventually ruined his cords. He writes about how many of his colleagues suggested that to him, and he basically just says, “But this is the same vocal technique I had always used ever since I learned it from my college and grad school voice teachers - how could my technique suddenly start being a problem now?” Never even crosses his mind that the way he was singing had ALWAYS been bad and detrimental to his vocal health. I was almost among the many young baritones who damaged his cords badly as a young singer by trying to sing like Sherrill Milnes. I’d say that Milnes is probably the best representation among baritones of the newer 20th century opera singing technique that replaced the old bel canto singing school - sure, he sounds amazing by our modern standards, but it’s not as effortless or gentle as the singers for whom Verdi and Puccini originally wrote their work to be sung. Cornell MacNeill, on the other hand, is a much better representation of old school, effortless singing technique. He may or may not sound as cool to modern audiences as Milnes, but at least the way he sang was conducive to vocal longevity and a longer career.
I 100% agree. And I really don’t understand why this video chose to use Milnes’ Scarpia. It’s one of the worst roles that he has sung. Milnes had tremendous high notes and ONLY high notes, but Scarpia happens to be quite low for him. The best Scarpias would really be Guelfi, who had no top or bottom but a tremendous middle voice. London was great in the role as well.
I totally agree with your analyses of the two singers. Milnes technic was to "swallow" the sound, the higher he goes.( thus making that "wolffie" sound rather than that bright "ping") The only baritone who was able to do this, and survive, was Leonard Warren. Why mess with what works!! Stick with the " old Italian bel canto singing". To the young up coming baritones, "if you can sound like MacNeill, Robert Merrill, Ettore Bastianini, Jose van Dam or many other older Italian baritone, you will do well!!
MacNeil did cover enough when he was younger, he really just cared less when he got old. At least in my opinion. But the voice was always thunderous in the theater no matter what.
Thunderous indeed!
To be fair, I’m my opinion, I like later macneil more than earlier macneil, I like the more open singing
MacNeill is one of my favourite Scarpias and Rigolettos
Mine too!! He’s a beast
Love hearing your thought process while watching these - looking forward to your first Scarpia, do it anywhere in Germany and I'll be there!
Aww thank u
I love MacNeil, especially as Scarpia. Man, he sings that F# Dio more open than I sing F#s and I’m a freaking tenor. Love it.
This is enlightening AND delightful or me as just an opera fan and not a vocalist or critic. I never knew the term "covering" till now! Love how you made it crystal clear. p.s. I saw Milnes at the Met in 1978 and was transfixed. Only heard MacNeill in a recording - this makes me truly appreciate his greatness.
Glad you’re well again! Love this series. Can’t wait to see your Scarpia. For me, MacNeil takes it here. Thank you. MORE please.
Thanks!!! He’s untouchable
I loved MacNeil I heard him live, he was such a wonderful Scarpia!! I know Lucas Meachem will be a very great Scarpia,
Cornell MacNeil coached this role with Gobbi, had interesting things to say.
Meachem was magnificent in La Boheme!
Great Video. Pre mid 60s MacNeil covered beautifully. Check out his 1962 Rigoletto with Sutherland. Gorgeous singing. And congrats on the exciting, top flight career!
that video of MacNeil is just one of my favorite opera videos, and I say this as a tenor. in particular I love in "Né il capo del ribelle è la più preziosa Ah, di quegli" how he decrescendos into the "ah." It's a little nuance I so rarely hear
Thank you Lucas, you're making a great contribution to all baritones, specially the young ones, like mi son. Thank you, thank you, thank youuuuuuu
You’re so incredibly perceptive and astute. Thank you for the breakdown, takedown, shakedown.
I introduced my new husband to opera and had picked the perfect one. He loved villains and Scarpia became his favorite, even memorizing his music. As professor in anatomy lab a student complained and he sang "insistiamo". She knew Tosca so they sang the torture scene in anatomy lab.
I saw Milnes in concert just before he went to the Met. Fantastic. Gorgeous voice, thrilling interpretations. And after all the exciting arias, he sang in a soft, non operatic voice, Shenandoah. I think to calm us down after such exciting music. For me, too beautiful a voice for Scarpia. My husband would have been perfect except he couldn't quite carry a tune. He had tons of power and resonance from imitating steam locomotives!
so sorry to hear you got sick and weren't able to do the performance! i LOVE Tosca and Puccini in general. absolutely mind-blowing composer. what was it like for you playing one of the vilest and scariest villains in the opera world? i do hope you get another opportunity to sing Scarpia again soon. what a legendary role.
Macneil is my favorite scarpia!
Me too saw him live, in person the biggest voice I ever heard. He sings Scarpia so beautifully great emotion, musically perfect great legato. Pure Belcanto singer.
@@PBXVIILY agreed
Hey Mr Meachem, I love your videos, I learn so much from them.
Could you please explain in another video the difference between the covered and wide open sounds that Sherrill Milnes does and the actual technique behind it? Thank you in advance and you’re an amazing singer!
Keep this between us but my next Lucas lesson Vid will be about this!
I saw both baritones in Tosca. MacNeil with Verrett & Pav, and then Behrens & Domingo; Milnes with Neblett & Carerras. Informative video.
WOW! What an experience. i would have loved to hear them live in a theatre, totally different thing.
@@LucasMeachem1 It IS completely different to hear a voice in the theater, and some of the great names sounded quite different from their recordings. I’m old enough that I happened to stumble into a golden era in the 1970s, and saw all of the legends from that era. But I think we have a golden era right now. The voices of today seem to be more capable, more knowledgeable, better technique (ok, Sutherland was unique), albeit with perhaps less individuality.
Nice video! Thank you! This is old school singing example! Forward placement and opening back space to cover sound are significant aspects of old school singing. Modern singer often use mask singing approach. Am I right? What is your opinion?
Glad to see you will be doing Bastianini next, please do Granforte as well, and while I know having the video is good Ruffo is such a legendary singer you need to do him as well, Merrill would also be a good shout.
Amazing suggestions! Love all those
BRAVO!! You now your baritone well, my friend!
@@arthurborchert6128 eh, I know my tenors better… and those baritones are all pretty big names.
Scarpia's lapdog is Spoletta the police agent , the character should be a Tenor. I have watched the entire Opera on the Royal Opera House DVD with my favorite diva Angela Gheorghiu as Floria Tosca, Jonas Kaufmann (Tenor) as Mario Cavaradossi and Sir Bryn Terfel(Baritone) as the dastardly Baron Scarpia it was indeed a roller coaster ride 👏👏👏👏👏.
Thanks Maestro, always looking forward watching your video. Will you consider to do a video reacts to Escamillio Legends ☺️
OH HECK YEAH CORNELL MACNEILL! His Fancuilla del West recording is tremendous.
funny! You got the title wrong. this video is suppost to be called "Legend reacts to SCARPIA legends", but its okey with baritone too ! :)
Omg😂😂😍😍 you are so kind!!!!
@@LucasMeachem1 btw the first baritone dont cover at all in the tops. I'm thinking of Pavarottis quote "If you dont cover the voice, you ain't a real tenor" and it's the same for baritone I believe (not that I'm well known to the subject).
@@LilosTheDecimator covering is a good skill to make things easier but if you are a really good singer then you can get away without covering and it actually most times allows for it to be more clear as it is more open physically allowing for better sound to be produced
@@antemahoney4376 I agree, but maybe its abit different between Tenor and Baritone. Ive allways been told to cover, because if I dont. I will maybe have to throw in the towel 10 years earlyer because of vocal damage. But I am not a Tenor with a degree! Just to note that!
@@LilosTheDecimator Basically Covering isn't a necessary thing it is a good skill to have because it can make things easier going up into your high notes but if you are careful with how you sing while open you can have a great sound an example of an open sound would be Di Steffano as he was ost often open whilst singing high and he had a great career. When covering though one needs to be careful because if done wrong it will result in an overdarkend sound and the difference between an overdarkened sound and a covered sound is very subtle but makes a world of difference and at this time I'm not fully aware of what the difference is but I know that there is one.
My old singing teacher always thought Milnes was a tenor. I always enjoyed MacNeil's recordings but my favourite of that generation was Merrill - a glorious sound. By the way, I very much enjoyed Mr Meachem's singing in the recording of "Caterina Cornaro". Gorgeous.
Milnes of course one of the greatest actors in opera history as well
Great video, if you can find William Justice performing Scarpia he was fantastic, loved his use of the rose.
Finally back!! So sad that you got sick and couldn't do Scarpia, I'm sure you'll do it fantastic when you get the opportunity. By the way, could you make a video about that "quiatto" and "scuito" thing ( I don't know how to write that, sorry)?
great thinking. I will do an explanation video of that for sure. keep the suggestions coming! and thank you for the kind words
Oh yeah Mac Neil 🙌
Gobbi was the master Scarpia. Thanks for the video.
Too bad there’s no video of the great Leonard Warren doing Scarpia…my favorite baritone…he sounded like the devil incarnate in that role…awesome recording with Bjoerling & Milanov
I love McNeill. There's a video here in TH-cam where he sings Rigoletto's "Cortigianni, vil razza...", perhaps you could react to it in the future 👍
DEFINITELY! love that idea
Tito Gobbi is a Scarpia legend to me.
I Love Milnes His Rigoletto is the best i think could you make a Video about the Rigoletto please?
I suggest you Giangiacomo guelfi as Scarpia
Macneil’s voice was absolutely colossal. I once spoke to someone who sang on stage with him and said they could not hear themselves at all over his power. This person stated that MacNeil’s voice sounded as if it came out of a large hole in the stage rather than a human throat. There’s a much better clip of MacNeil singing Scarpia when he was still in his prime on TH-cam, 1965. This clip you showed was 1978 he is definitely spreading and uncovering too much there.
th-cam.com/video/vQZira9aYK4/w-d-xo.html
Your account of someone else having heard MacNeil is amazing, thank you. I completely agree with you that he sounds better in the recording you shared. We also have to bear in mind how the recording technology used in MacNeil's time might not have captured enough of the true colour of his voice. The 'spreading' thing discussion is problematic also, I think, because some singers can learn to do better than others and therefore take such risks. But having said that, I do hear a similarity in the top of Gobbi's voice to MacNeil's, and I have listened to recordings of Gobbi showing his vocal decline (which is also well-documented). Interesting how - in my opinion - the best Scarpia: George London, also had to end his career a bit shorter than he wanted to also. It seems like a role which can destroy baritones if I'm honest (I'm not a fan of Hvorostovsky/Terfel doing it, for example). Love Greer Grimsley doing it.
I saw MacNeil in this performance, his voice filled the theater, live performance!
True he wasn’t in his prime, but his interpretation was amazing, he really grew musically as an artist. The applause he received for his Scarpia here was tremendous, great artist!
@@PBXVIILY wow! How does the projection compare with other baritones/Scarpias you've heard?
@@splodsquadubdob The Best, I remember running home telling my Dad!
His voice was huge and in the Met it just filled the whole opera house! MacNeil never screamed or forced his sound, it was for sure the biggest voice I heard at the Met. I saw him by accident in Pagliacci with a friend of mine, an opera singer, he filled in the last minute for Milnes, it wasn’t even in the program., they made an announcement before the opera. The best Pagliacci I ever heard. My friend looked at me in astonishment, we looked at each other. My greatest opera night….MacNeil. He took down the house that night., when he came out people were screaming! I fell in love with his voice, great interpreter. Modest Man from what people have told me. The best Scarpia. The Best Tonio ever, this is at the end of his career.
My Dad saw him in his prime.Beyond his amazing voice were his great interpretations,, no one moved me like The Big Mac!
@@PBXVIILY Wow. This confirms huge amounts to me. Namely, that you can't really get a sense of size even in live recordings (unless you have an original recording - ie not remastered/tempered with which allows you to compare singers alongside each other). I understand that MacNeil learnt from Frederich Schorr, but actually that Schorr wasn't a good teacher, and so MacNeil credits his main training with Samuel Margolis, a teacher who was very successful and not spoken about enough.
Hey great video!
But why couldn't you put the sound of the videos in instead of out of your phone ?
I'm sure there is a reason, sorry to be a nerd haha
You realized that too!! When I screenrecorded the videos, the audio didn’t work this time. Weird! Probably my fault.
I'm a bit surprised that you have not also included the greatest Scarpia of them all, at least in the modern era: Tito Gobbi. I heard Cornell MacNeil live, not as Scarpia, but as Rigoletto. I can honestly say that he had the most beautiful baritone voice I ever heard on stage, including Merrill, Milnes, and others. On records, I believe Mattia Battistini has the most beautiful baritone voice despite the primitiveness of the recordings. And Lawrence Tibbett ain't too shabby either.
These critiques are fascinating for the technical information they convey to a non singer. But one point worries me - the contrast in preparative approach to that of the greatest Scarpia, who always preserved the integrity of his interpretations by not listening to those of other artists. Does this not imply that to separate technique from the emotional totality invites a compromised result?
Definitely Scarpia is my favorite Bad Boy in Opera.
Here's a fun Tosca/MacNeill story for you. I was a super around the time of your clip. I could look up the date easily because the soprano (a very, very, very famous soprano) sang only that one performance. She was such a disaster that she did not do any of the others (I think three were cancelled). He did NOT want to sing with her, and I don't blame him. During the rehearsal (I heard about this from others), just as she was about to murder him, she smashed the glass she was holding against the dinner table to distract him, and THEN grabbed the knife to kill him. The director was freaking out because their star baritone had just fallen to the ground, which was covered with glass shards. I heard he then insisted on a "sugar" glass... just in case she repeated this). The trouble was that this soprano was very unpredictable, and people were understandably cautious about singing with her. (Two other singers in this category were Jon Vickers--could get violent--- and Fernando Corena--prone to standing behind colleagues and imitating their gestures for laughs). In any case, it was my job, along with three or so other guys to follow Scarpia in his first entrance ("A bacchanal in church?") We were standing in the wings, waiting to be sent on stage, holding our three-cornered hats (that's how I remember them). Suddenly he turned around and put HIS hat on MY head, and said, "Would you like to do this for me tonight?" While I'm rambling on... allow me to say, Lucas, that having heard MacNeill and Milnes many times at the MET (and they were quite marvelous, each in his own way), you acquitted yourself just as well in Iolanta. My impression was that you just about blew the roof off the auditorium, and it was quite a memorable performance.
I always thought of MacNeill and Milnes having similar higher baritone voices, but their choice of cover/not, as you’ve shown, is totally different. What about the bass baritones you’ve mentioned?
Which ones? I’d be happy to react to them and talk about their technique
@@LucasMeachem1 Ramey, Terfel…probably Raimondi and London as well since they also sang a fair number of Scarpias
Have you not heard the phenomenal voice of Dimash Kudaibergen yet? Believe me, it's wonderful and amazing. He studied both classical and modern vocals. Please react to his songs such as SOS, Stranger, Ikanaide or his more operatic songs Olimpico, Ulisse, Passione.
He is a national treasure of Kazakhstan and has a huge fan base around the world, especially in China and Russia.
In "operatic diction" (especially in the case of huge orchestra+pipe organ+choir sounds), vowels are much more important than consonants.
You really should have listened to London for a contrast. Also later on in the “Mia Mia” it is… insane
It would be interesting to hear you react to Eugenio Giraldoni, the first Scarpia. Unfortunately he didn't record anything from Tosca, but he was a great singer with a smooth voice and a trill that you can hear in his recording of Per me giunto.
If you want to listen to the ultimate Scarpia listen to George London Circa 1959 with Pradelli conducting.
Would you please do a reaction to John Brancy?
I've watched 3 of these reaction vidoes and I notice that you observe that many of these guys sing toward character communication. Yet, most of your analysis is technical. Do you anticipate that you'll get to a point where you'll trust your technical instincts to choose correctly and....for lack of a better phrase....just let the character sing?
Really good question. Personally I am fully in the moment and present when I am on stage. I am totally in character. The technical thoughts I have are part of my preparation and I fixate on them in the practice room but when I enter the hall or step onto stage, I let it all go and exist within the story.
@@LucasMeachem1 Thanks for the reply.
Does this mean you are officially a Verdi baritone? Rigoletto soon??
No Rigoletto yet … other Verdi is on!! Nabucco this summer
I don't really know if agree with your no diction in the loud high note parts. You say it twice but to me Sherill Milnes is keeping his diction when singing 'Te aeternum Patrem etc...', perhaps because it is not his highest range but Cornell can sing high just as well. For me personally, I like to keep my diction and feel it helps me. Maybe it's less audible in that range whatever you do.
Your commentaries are always interesting but I find the term 'cover' confusing. When I was 18 years old my first singing teacher, who had a big high baritone voice, would say 'you need to cover' as I went up into the higher baritone range. I had no idea what this meant. He would demonstrate but this didn't translate into helping me sing in the upper middle and high notes of a baritones range. A clearer and more simple explanation came when I read about a modified vowel sound in Caesari's books. He writes that it is a 'physiological and accoustical necessity to modify or darken the vowels as the singer ascends which reacts in the larynx to adjust the vocal cords accordingly.' This he confidently expresses was the real Old School teaching.....?!
React to Bastianini or Titta Ruffo!
Coming soon!
Macneil had a huge voice, seemingly with a megaphone in his throat. Milnes was terrific as well, but perhaps sang a little too long. Two great baritones
The examination of MacNeil from a 1978 recording is silly and unfair. Try listening to the live Met 1962 recording: his "Tosca, mi fai dimenicar Ido" is completely covered. It's an enormous sound. (hear: th-cam.com/video/cOP1VJR6Eek/w-d-xo.htmlsi=uHX7AEHK4sQSyo_B&t=2689). Also, the 1991 recording of Milnes (10 years after his major vocal problems), reveals major technical problems (scooping and about 1/4-step flat). For a better representation of Milnes, hear this 1965 live Faust recording: th-cam.com/video/scW0xFqjW-Q/w-d-xo.htmlsi=3extUHpIMGybfvhH. It's also interesting to note that one of Milnes idols was Leonard Warren (as told by my father who personally knew Milnes). Leonard Warren's live Met 1956 version is a technical mastery (th-cam.com/video/NcKQ1vG6Q18/w-d-xo.htmlsi=73zGpPGQa5iOhkjz&t=2604). In general, it might be better to compare these artists during their primes.
Late Mac is still great Mac. Open "E"s, "F"s and "F#"s took their toll. Also, you do not have to say anything nice about Milnes, just because he is still alive.
I like Milnes but I never considered him one of the great baritones because he was inconsistent and did not possess any of the qualities with the exception of high notes which were really good. He really manipulated the passaggio a lot and any real singers would know that when he sang a high note the note that proceeded it was almost always underpitch. Milnes’ middle and bottom were also often inaudible in the theater.
Your voice is too Loud over the computer video.
It would be better if you let us hear MacNeil and you make comments after. MacNeil was a giant. I saw this great singer in person!!!
MacNeil uses the sign of the cross also, was not something Milnes created. The Gobbi production always had this. I love Milnes, but MacNeil is better as Scarpia. I saw both.
MacNeil was older, close to 60 in this production, also concert version is much easier.
Still BIG MAC rules Scarpia.
Too open! MacNiel.
1 Macneil = 10 Milnes .
Non sono x niente d'accordo. Milnes nella sua registrazione con Domingo e la kabaianska(?) è il miglior Scarpia che io abbia visto e sentito. Interpretazione vocale e scenica strepitosa. 1 a 10 è una forzatura che non le rende giustizia.
@@lz43p15
Entrambi li avevo sentito dal vivo.
Nessun confronto possibile.
Una registrazione a volte purtroppo non può essere una testimonianza valida della bellezza reale di una voce .
Fin oggi di purtroppo non esiste microfono 🎙️ capace di trasmettere la bellezza unica e gli armonici di una voce lirica vera.
La registrazione della Tosca di quale Lei sta parlando è una registrazione truccata proprio come sono truccate moltissime registrazioni Stereo .
La prego di non prendermi in giro.
Saluti cordiali
il vecchio
Mr. Meachem should not praise Cornell MacNeil for the faults of his late career. To this day no one knows why after about 1972 he started singing wide open through the passaggio. It’s a scary, unpleasant sound, if one that probably few humans could even make. At least give us the ‘Ernani’ aria from the early 60’s to show the audience a great singer in his prime.
I think you mean 1965 Scala. This is a top-5 most-memorable-moments-in-opera moments. th-cam.com/video/CMqfF0nv-Og/w-d-xo.htmlsi=6Y2isDsvEqYvJY7x&t=236