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Nice job. As you know, no job is perfect but the difference with you is you take your time and try your best and respect the process. Once your generation of trades are gone, it will be chaos in the construction industry
Thank you for your time and sharing valuable info. I am a transplant to WA state and I can say things are pure chaos due to lack of skill and giving a sh*t. Thank you again for showing proper techniques.
Thank you for your videos. I live in a house my wife and I bought from a guy in Georgia that owns his own shower and tub installation company, and the shower in this house is purely aesthetic. The wall they built to accommodate it has a three inch lean from bottom to top. Your videos will come in very handy when I’m demolishing it and rebuilding it in the future. Thanks again.
Thanks this answered a lot of my questions about why a preslope was done. In all my years Ive never seen a shower that didnt leak eventually. Im going to try your method. Makes since.
I seen different ways to build the shower pan and they build a first one mortar bed with slope before laying down the PVC liner but ,I like to be practical and save time: I like the way you builded this showe, r because ones you installed the PVC liner plus you seal the mortar with red guard ,it will be no problem :good job this is the way I do it , and never have a problem👍
Been watching your vids for a while now. Thank you for them. I was just going to ask, why pre-slope if u waterproof. U managed to squeeze in the answer just before u started. U Sir make too much sense. Some guys just don’t like change.
I used to do tile when I was young and install panliners like you're doing we used to pre-slope the pan in other words before you put the pan in you slope it so when you go ahead and put the pan in it's already sloped in case you have any problems the water will always go to the drain and put three pieces of tile on the weep holes and then go ahead and mud it up but I guess everybody's different as long as it doesn't leak you're in good shape.
I like your style, nothing unnecessary, no extra drama, i'm sure you get plenty of over achievers in the comment section telling you how you forgot this or you should of that, Well done!The "No Bullshit" method of doing things!
I can only donate a small amount of $, because I live on a fixed income. While going in debt to it, I've been "forced to redo our bathroom. Please advise me on 2 things. What about your weep holes in this video? Just to be clear for me, you Redgard the mortar? Finally, I'm using a Quick Pitch and the instructions say I am to set the circular part on top of the flange bolts. So I need to screw the drain cap down a little more to account for that, or just make my mortar bed thicker because of the Quick Pitch? Thanks SO MUCH for putting up some of your craft on TH-cam. Don't quit. I AM like the other commenter who was puzzled as the amount of your followers. Dude, that's just wrong. You are an artist and should have 10 TIMES that amount! 🤳👍
Basically makes no sense to put a liner without a pre-slope. If there is a leak ( that’s why you put a liner in first place) water will sink down to the liner and just stay there and accumulate and will eventually rise to the tile . It ll never dry up and grout will come off tiles will give off. It just doesn’t make sense from your generally impeccable work ethics. But everything else on this video is Very educational and well thought of and crafted as usual! Thank you.
I don't believe that a pre-slope works as intended because wicking action with plus 200 lb and mortar will ensure that your pan is wet all the time, that being said nobody does water and water out anymore, surface of the mortar is waterproof which makes the pre-slope a moot and Antiquated issue, but thanks for the comment
Tutorial is nicely done; your usual good work. Three things: 1. Knee pads 2. Caulk on screw heads or overkill? 3. Let's discuss your choice of music during the work session.
Thanks 😁✌👌 1. Knee pads bind up in back so I had them. I do have a kiddy float I use on flooring work, slides easy and I've had it for 3-4 years for a buck at the dollar store. 2. Caulk at srew heads overkill. I mud over them and the whole thing is waterproofed. I do caulk the holes I make with ledger boards though. 3. I had a great track on the working portion until 3 days ago when I got a copyright notification, which basically allowed ads to run and the money from the ads would have gone to the artist.... so I literally deleted the music and put on an ad free TH-cam track...not the best tune but I'll be damned if somebody else gets paid off of my work 😂
Are you considering doing more videos like this that show the rest of the shower process? It's very helpful to see the whole process in action from start to finish.
I am doing another remodel and have done my own shower pans. I understand why you dont preslope. I do a preslope, then a liner. I know if tiles leak its eventually having issues anyway. My extraordinary measure was using an epoxy grout that sealed the floor extra good. My new project I will use the largest tiles, then the leak issues are less. The mud bed must be absolute in the tile mud or it will crack. I always pull up tiles to insure adhesion contact on a floor.
Good video 👍! The pan liner though obsolete now looked great in the corners. That was always the biggest mistake I saw when following a plumber. It's code in my area for the plumber to install the liner. I don't know why though lol. I take them out after inspection anyway
Thanks for your comment, yeah I heard that plumbers have to install Liners in some jurisdictionsh...but that becomes an issue if there is a leak later on, who does a homeowner blame, the plumber or the tile guy.... I would rather be responsible for the whole thing personally
Two questions, how deep is your morter is there a depth for code? And if you have a seat in shower does that need covered with liner overlapping your bottom pan?
No I do not, although I have a few videos on linear drain showers , I don't show the process of installing one because they are all built different and all have a different installation method
So... I have the Plastic curb installed over some 2x2 and filled with mortar... How do I attach the pan liner to the curb? I don't want to staple it... Do I go over the liner with wire mesh and then mud it??
When does the screw in drain cap portion get fixed or locked in to a height and what holds it from spinning? Is drain "locked" in at the time of thinset and tile install?
hello, I really love your videos you make great to watch. Was wondering if maybe you could give more technical info. I would love to know stuff like how thick the cement needs to be, how to figure out the height of your drain to start and such info like that. Also would love to see or hear at least the stuff to include the sub floor. I am getting ready to do my own shower pan and that stuff I am trying to find. I find the more info I have the better I feel to start my project.
Ok my issue is the builder used concrete to put a fiberglass pan in. I removed everything. But now i got concrete bumps making my floor not perfectly flat. Can i slope it UNDER the liner then tile on the liner or no? To chip all this concrete first would ruin the sub floor
I like your video but it would be helpful if you gave a running commentary on what you are doing rather than the loud music. The one question I have is what type of calking did you use around the drain flange. Is it normal silicone or is it butyl calking. Thanks for all the information, it’s really helpful.
I’m doing a shower pan liner. I did a cement preslope already. Now I’m ready to install the liner. The backer board is already up and it was installed all the way to the floor. Can i install the shower pan liner over the backer board wall? Or how do i approach this situation?
@@StarrTile that does go a long way in answering all the pre-slope vs. no-pre-slope questions. The bed of dry mix you set at a 1" drop per foot. ( that is your slope to the drain on all four sides.) Liquid membrane three coats and that rubber skin will last until the new homeowner changes out the outdate tiles. Right ?? All the Walls up To the ceiling should get at least 2 coats of the waterproofing membrane. So, in theory that inside area should be waterpressure proof, if not... hit it with another coat of liquid rubber until it is. This is not rocket science, this is common sense at work. You are worth your weight in GOLD !! No one comes close to your watertight screws and drain area.
Very good videos, very practical?? I understand the way you explain the preslope will not help the situation if there are enough water leaked in. I am wondering if the preslope will help when water leaks in over time? If it does, why don't we build the preslope?
@@StarrTile That is a good reason. How about in the case where the water seep thru from the bottom that is caused by a clogged drain. So the water get to the bottom of the mud. In this case, will the preslope help to drain any excess water - assuming the whole mud bottom already saturated with the backed up water. I understand this scenario does happen often, otherwise, there is a bigger problem need to be deal with, but when this happens, the ability to drain any excessive water will help, I would think.
That was worth it just for the music. Serious question: Is that mortar bed strong enough to use without tile? What if you just painted it with something like waterproof epoxy paint? Never much liked tile and it's such a bother.
Why on some projects are a pre-pan installed then a finished pan with the liner sandwiched in between but then on this video, the liner fits directly on your base then a pan formed? My current project has a 6 X 3 pit with a center located drain. Does size dictate one or two pans? Thanks!
Inspectors here in Oregon will fail my pan liners if they are not presloped. You are lucky you don't have to do this extra step makes it easier to install the liner. I also put some kinda of shim on the outside top part of the curb so the liner slopes into the shower area. Looks like it will hold water to me. Might want to protect the sides up the curb wall extra protection never hurts. Would like to see how you do the curb part. Do you use wire mesh over the curb and mud set it?
Everybody needs to get off of the whole pre-slope thing because if you waterproof your surface which everyone that I know does, then the pre slope would never kick in any way
That would be nice. When I do a large shower I got to wait for the preslope to dry before laying the liner.. PITA unless I put a board down on the liner so I don't mess up the slope..
It's because after a while soap, shampoo, and body oils mess with the pan waterproof membrane. At that point, water penetrates the mortar and sits stagnant on a non-presloped liner.
Great videos Bob Thank You, Question, could you just use RedGuard as a pan liner? Maybe 3 or 4 coats and then use another 3 coats of RedGuard on top of your Mud. Thanks
Yes, Redgard allows for their product to the pan liner. I don't know the mil thickness they are looking for but 3-4 coats would do the trick. Having said that, because I have a customer base answer to I would not attempt it personally and instead use kerdi..which I have on many occasions for curbless showers on a slab.
I just had to throw in my two cents when I read this question.. if I understand your question correctly you want to possibly do away with the ~$30 shower membrane and put several layers of red guard which would cost over a hundred dollars easy. Why would someone want to go that route?
@@estephenchavez9577 I've never installed a rubber liner ( if thats what your talking about) and I don't like the way inside corners make wall board bump out. Red Guard is a bit pricy @ $150.00, 3 gal pail but I'm using on walls anyway, so I use as a pan liner also. I did call Custom Blend Tec support and got the OK. I can usually do 2 showers with 1 pail and the home owner pays for material anyway. That's my 2 cents. Peace my fellow Tile Contractor.
@@garrypieroni8038 yes I was talking about the plastic liner... my thinking is using a shower liner would be more cost effective and quicker than red guard but if youve had positive results I can't knock it
I appreciate Bob's time and effort to make these videos, and also his skill in the trade, but I can see why his method confuses a lot of people. He uses a pan liner even though the topical membrane makes the liner superfluous, and he uses a weep hole-style drain that would be suitable for a water-in, water-out system, even though he's not building that type of system. I'm sure his showers don't fail because he is tying the components together with care, but it still doesn't make a whole lot of sense to do it this way. That's why he's always fielding nasty comments about not knowing what he's doing.
Thank you for the kind words sir, let me go over a few things, they don't make a drain without weep holes because the drain manufacturers are behind the curve on the sealèd system that we are doing now. The reason I still do a liner in addition to protecting the surface of the mortar pan is force of habit, do I absolutely have to have the pan liner? In my opinion know but I do it anyway....cya. Insofar as what the industry standards are, I started doing things long before they became standards, 25 years ago I wasn't seeing blocking so I put blocking between the studs, now it is basically code, 15 years ago I started setting my wallboard about an inch off of the pan motar, now the tcna and other organizations call for that in their manuals. 10 years ago I waterproof the entirety of my shower including the mortar bed, everybody had their pushed back but now that it's called the sealed system and it is standard... plus you have manufacturers like flow fx who is making it easier with their drain to do what I've already done with a liquid topical membrane. Yes I am a maverick, but I'm also an innovator, everybody else just reads books where I use critical thinking 🫡😉
Beauty vids brother i got one question, once i get the liner in, the final spin on peice of the drain, after i set the height, I just slap down the mortar? Thanks
I have viewed many of your u tube video's in regards to shower pan liner / mortar. While you install one bed of mortar, some other guys do two. What is the benefit of doing it twice? I am going to use your method. Curious???
We are not doing water in water out system anymore so because we are waterproofing the entirety of the pan surface the weep holes would never kick in, having said that it doesn't make any sense to do an extremely porous product which would be Pebbles instead of a less porous product which would be your sand mix, this might take
What if i dont want to put tile and i want to do all concrete for my floor.. can i use all mortar and just slope to the actual drain height? Should i use pebbles for weep holes?
Not sure I understand your question, you need to put tile on top of the mortar, not sure how you would just have a Tite-less pan... And no I have never put pebbles at the weep holes, it would basically create a clog more than the mortar sand whatever do, but having said that we waterproof the entirety of the pan now so everything below it is irrelevant
Great video. Lots of comments on preslope or why not here. The subfloor should be very very close to level 1st and foremost, wood or concrete slab. If not this is where you create a pre slope or use floor leveler or level up a plywood sub floor. The pan liner gives the wood sub floor some protection against water all over it if water gets past the grout and the entire mortar bed becomes soaked 101%. You're then hoping water goes to the drain as path of least resistance. You've got a big fail when this happens. My question is why is the mud bed so thick?
I don't believe that a pre-slope works as intended because wicking action, having said that everybody waterproofs the pan surface nowadays so it doesn't matter
@Mikepopo99 the pan liner is not necessary, I still do 1 because habits die hard... but the motar bad should be fully dry and cured before waterproofing the surface, therefore you cannot have moisture in between the two, unless of course you're doing it wrong. I prefer to use a liquid topical membrane like Redguard or aquadefense whereas other tile guys are using some type of membrane like Kerdi, a cloth membrane with tape at the seams, etc etc, either way it's done it is a sealed system once again makes the whole notion of a pre-slope irrelevant
Yes I think it's a great product for a homeowner to use, it would take me too long to set up because I don't need that product but I will be making a mock-up demo video very soon exactly that
@@StarrTile gracias 🙂 Just making sure cause everyone else in other videos just wait 24 hours , But thanks very much for your videos Están buenísimos 👏
Liner over plywood? Do you ever build a thin cement base first, then the liner, then water test, then the second layer of cement, then waterproof and then tile?
I've seen now people do not put in a liner at all because as you also mention here, you do not put a preslope and I did not see pepples around the weeping holes so the liner appears to be redundant. If waterproofed with red guard or the orange schluter along with an epoxy grout, I do not see the need for the liner anymore. Your thoughts on this?
Is it by choice that you don't shop at lowes? Just curious. Do you shop suppliers/wholesale or big box stores. As always I appreciate your ideas and methods as they tend to be down to earth. Thx, and happy new year.
I don't shop at Lowe's because I don't like their product line generally speaking, Plus they don't give the veterans 10% discount Like Home Depot does, and I can't go in there and get 2 feet of baseboard, they make you pay for a whole 8-foot section.... But yeah, HD is my go to store unless I need specialty items and I have tile stores fir that.
@@StarrTile I've started using their app. Order it the day before if I can and boom is ready. Or if it's a part for stock, I'll just have them send it to me
@@StarrTile I'm surprised Lowes does not give you the 10% military discount. I took my DD214 to customer service and they put me right in the system. I give the cashier my phone# and it takes off 10%. I live in Texas.
@@dustchip8060 yes I believe Lowe's had said something about applying oh, and I didn't go through any process of bringing anything in because I carry my VA card in my wallet, I show that Home Depot and that's good enough
@@StarrTile I bought the 10" Rigid tile saw from Home Depot and they accepted my VA card as well. Have you ever installed 4" x 48" porcelain floor tile? My client just bought it for their master bath I've completely gutted.I didn't realize tile even came in that length and small width. Already anticipating a nightmare. lol. There is 1/8" of bow up in the middle of the tiles. Any advice on installation procedure outside the norm? By the way, I use your procedure to install liners, mud beds and backer board. Thank you for the teaching.
@@betobeto7903 The work doesn't require high use of a drill, it is more than enough. Personally, Ryobi is too bulky, feels cheap and underpowered for my needs but it will do the job. If you can't afford other brands, it's more than capable,
2 sponges worth of water sounds less than recomend on bag? Just trying to understand your method it seems more like playing sand than mortar. Is that easier?
The only reaaon I mentioned 2 sponges full because people want to know what thickness their mortar should be and that always works for me, I suppose you could get a measuring cup and do it by the book but I don't
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All of it dries in 24 hours, but most of it has to cure about 20 days
@@StarrTile Got it, thank you! Keep up the good content. Like watching your videos!
If you find the drain is not level at that point then what do you do? Isn’t it too late by that time?
I’m watching this and following 100% of your instructions I really appreciate people like you posting useful videos on TH-cam
Thank you again! I should be doing my pan tomorrow…..quite nervous but I have learned so much from you! Thank you for being an inspiration!!!!
Nice job. As you know, no job is perfect but the difference with you is you take your time and try your best and respect the process. Once your generation of trades are gone, it will be chaos in the construction industry
Thank you for your time and sharing valuable info.
I am a transplant to WA state and I can say things are pure chaos due to lack of skill and giving a sh*t.
Thank you again for showing proper techniques.
Thank you for your videos. I live in a house my wife and I bought from a guy in Georgia that owns his own shower and tub installation company, and the shower in this house is purely aesthetic. The wall they built to accommodate it has a three inch lean from bottom to top. Your videos will come in very handy when I’m demolishing it and rebuilding it in the future. Thanks again.
I appreciate great craftsmanship, great detail. I am doing a shower like this, the info is most needed and very useful, thanks!
Dude..you are a BOSS at your craft!! Watching you makes me feel like I can do it 😉👍
Nice work as usual Bob!
Thanks this answered a lot of my questions about why a preslope was done. In all my years Ive never seen a shower that didnt leak eventually. Im going to try your method. Makes since.
I like the way this guy does it! The rubber liner,plus.
Thanks Bob, the longer the video the better 👊
I will keep that in mind going forward, thanks for watching
Thank you good sir.. l had a dilemma with a doubt and while watching you work,i realized which part of the process wasnt clicking . 💯💯
Awesome work! thanks for sharing your tricks sir!
Great to see someone that doesn't preslope. Ive been shieted on for not doing it. I redguard the entire areas before tile so there you go
Just because your redguard before tiling does mean your good to go. Pre slope is a fail safe. So no pre slope, no fail safe.
This vid answered my remaining questions... thanks!
I seen different ways to build the shower pan and they build a first one mortar bed with slope before laying down the PVC liner but ,I like to be practical and save time: I like the way you builded this showe, r because ones you installed the PVC liner plus you seal the mortar with red guard ,it will be no problem :good job this is the way I do it , and never have a problem👍
Thank you for the continued uploading, even with people that try to critique your great work!
This is tremendously helpful.
I always enjoy watching your videos. I esp liked this one being so complete start to finish.
Been watching your vids for a while now. Thank you for them. I was just going to ask, why pre-slope if u waterproof. U managed to squeeze in the answer just before u started. U Sir make too much sense. Some guys just don’t like change.
Very helpful video. Will try to do same thing in a week
Mr, your work is very good 👍
I used to do tile when I was young and install panliners like you're doing we used to pre-slope the pan in other words before you put the pan in you slope it so when you go ahead and put the pan in it's already sloped in case you have any problems the water will always go to the drain and put three pieces of tile on the weep holes and then go ahead and mud it up but I guess everybody's different as long as it doesn't leak you're in good shape.
Cant thank you enough!!
Amazing job!
Your just the best!!!!
thank you for your help
They make a laser level that you said on top of your drain it makes it so much easier
I like your style, nothing unnecessary, no extra drama, i'm sure you get plenty of over achievers in the comment section telling you how you forgot this or you should of that, Well done!The "No Bullshit" method of doing things!
I can only donate a small amount of $, because I live on a fixed income. While going in debt to it, I've been "forced to redo our bathroom. Please advise me on 2 things. What about your weep holes in this video? Just to be clear for me, you Redgard the mortar? Finally, I'm using a Quick Pitch and the instructions say I am to set the circular part on top of the flange bolts. So I need to screw the drain cap down a little more to account for that, or just make my mortar bed thicker because of the Quick Pitch? Thanks SO MUCH for putting up some of your craft on TH-cam. Don't quit. I AM like the other commenter who was puzzled as the amount of your followers. Dude, that's just wrong. You are an artist and should have 10 TIMES that amount! 🤳👍
Brother you do fine work
Cool vid, love the audio tracks! 😎
Thanks for showing how its don
Love the music Bob. You make it look easy. Have you got any videos where you install an oatey linear drain?
Nice job i will do it like that
Basically makes no sense to put a liner without a pre-slope. If there is a leak ( that’s why you put a liner in first place) water will sink down to the liner and just stay there and accumulate and will eventually rise to the tile . It ll never dry up and grout will come off tiles will give off. It just doesn’t make sense from your generally impeccable work ethics. But everything else on this video is Very educational and well thought of and crafted as usual! Thank you.
I don't believe that a pre-slope works as intended because wicking action with plus 200 lb and mortar will ensure that your pan is wet all the time, that being said nobody does water and water out anymore, surface of the mortar is waterproof which makes the pre-slope a moot and Antiquated issue, but thanks for the comment
LOVE your videos and thank you. it looks like you have either mortar, silicone or glue under the drain attached to the floor. IS that correct?
Love the soundtrack! Hahaha 😀😂🤣
Tutorial is nicely done; your usual good work.
Three things:
1. Knee pads
2. Caulk on screw heads or overkill?
3. Let's discuss your choice of music during the work session.
Thanks 😁✌👌
1. Knee pads bind up in back so I had them. I do have a kiddy float I use on flooring work, slides easy and I've had it for 3-4 years for a buck at the dollar store.
2. Caulk at srew heads overkill. I mud over them and the whole thing is waterproofed. I do caulk the holes I make with ledger boards though.
3. I had a great track on the working portion until 3 days ago when I got a copyright notification, which basically allowed ads to run and the money from the ads would have gone to the artist.... so I literally deleted the music and put on an ad free TH-cam track...not the best tune but I'll be damned if somebody else gets paid off of my work 😂
Thank you sir.
Are you considering doing more videos like this that show the rest of the shower process? It's very helpful to see the whole process in action from start to finish.
Yes...I'm realizing that...late bloomer I suppose.
Your taste in music is superb I must admit
I see you embraced the dry pack . Do you find it more manageable?
I am doing another remodel and have done my own shower pans. I understand why you dont preslope. I do a preslope, then a liner. I know if tiles leak its eventually having issues anyway.
My extraordinary measure was using an epoxy grout that sealed the floor extra good.
My new project I will use the largest tiles, then the leak issues are less. The mud bed must be absolute in the tile mud or it will crack. I always pull up tiles to insure adhesion contact on a floor.
Thanks for sharing this video! It was very helpful for me. One question, should the drain be able to turn once the mortar has hardened? Thanks!
Definitely not
Good video 👍! The pan liner though obsolete now looked great in the corners. That was always the biggest mistake I saw when following a plumber. It's code in my area for the plumber to install the liner. I don't know why though lol. I take them out after inspection anyway
Thanks for your comment, yeah I heard that plumbers have to install Liners in some jurisdictionsh...but that becomes an issue if there is a leak later on, who does a homeowner blame, the plumber or the tile guy.... I would rather be responsible for the whole thing personally
Two questions, how deep is your morter is there a depth for code? And if you have a seat in shower does that need covered with liner overlapping your bottom pan?
You do great work!! Do you have a video on installing a linear drain?
No I do not, although I have a few videos on linear drain showers , I don't show the process of installing one because they are all built different and all have a different installation method
GREAT !!. DO IT RIGHT.
Nice music choice shaggy
So...
I have the Plastic curb installed over some 2x2 and filled with mortar...
How do I attach the pan liner to the curb?
I don't want to staple it...
Do I go over the liner with wire mesh and then mud it??
Good Job -- :) I send you like..
When does the screw in drain cap portion get fixed or locked in to a height and what holds it from spinning? Is drain "locked" in at the time of thinset and tile install?
hello, I really love your videos you make great to watch. Was wondering if maybe you could give more technical info. I would love to know stuff like how thick the cement needs to be, how to figure out the height of your drain to start and such info like that. Also would love to see or hear at least the stuff to include the sub floor. I am getting ready to do my own shower pan and that stuff I am trying to find. I find the more info I have the better I feel to start my project.
This video should answer most of your questions....
th-cam.com/video/iys8beUxLvg/w-d-xo.html
Ok my issue is the builder used concrete to put a fiberglass pan in. I removed everything. But now i got concrete bumps making my floor not perfectly flat. Can i slope it UNDER the liner then tile on the liner or no? To chip all this concrete first would ruin the sub floor
I like your video but it would be helpful if you gave a running commentary on what you are doing rather than the loud music. The one question I have is what type of calking did you use around the drain flange. Is it normal silicone or is it butyl calking. Thanks for all the information, it’s really helpful.
could not find the green stripe mortar bag at HD. Which type of mortar should i look for at Lowes?
I’m doing a shower pan liner. I did a cement preslope already. Now I’m ready to install the liner. The backer board is already up and it was installed all the way to the floor. Can i install the shower pan liner over the backer board wall? Or how do i approach this situation?
Thanks for video, what type of screws are you using on liner?
好极了,谢谢
Great video. Thanks for taking the time.. Do you red guard your mortar bed before you thinset?
Yes....entire shower is waterproof before any tile
Best advise I ever got from Mr startile was you should be totally confident your shower is 💯% waterproof before installing tile.
@@StarrTile
that does go a long way in answering all the pre-slope vs. no-pre-slope questions.
The bed of dry mix you set at a 1" drop per foot. ( that is your slope to the drain on all four sides.)
Liquid membrane three coats and that rubber skin will last until the new homeowner changes out the outdate tiles.
Right ??
All the Walls up To the ceiling should get at least 2 coats of the waterproofing membrane. So, in theory that inside area should be waterpressure proof, if not... hit it with another coat of liquid rubber until it is.
This is not rocket science, this is common sense at work.
You are worth your weight in GOLD !!
No one comes close to your watertight screws and drain area.
I love your videos. How high off the mortar is the drain sitting? when the mortar is done, I mean.
Roughly half an inch or so, just enough room for thinset and tile and for the tile to set slightly above the edge of the drain
SO ! I guess it's required to wear brand new WHITE SNEAKERS when performing this procedure ! LOVE that EXTRA touch !
Dude I was thinking this the whole video lol!
is it ok to apply a waterproofing membrane before I will install the Oatey pan liner
Very good videos, very practical?? I
understand the way you explain the preslope will not help the situation if there are enough water leaked in. I am wondering if the preslope will help when water leaks in over time? If it does, why don't we build the preslope?
Because we waterproof the surface nowadays so it is irrelevant, the mortar will never see any moisture
@@StarrTile That is a good reason. How about in the case where the water seep thru from the bottom that is caused by a clogged drain. So the water get to the bottom of the mud. In this case, will the preslope help to drain any excess water - assuming the whole mud bottom already saturated with the backed up water.
I understand this scenario does happen often, otherwise, there is a bigger problem need to be deal with, but when this happens, the ability to drain any excessive water will help, I would think.
I enjoy your videos MUCH! How thick do you suggest that the pan should be?
At least an inch to 1 1/2" at the drain and then incrementally whatever the quarter inch per foot is to the perimeter
And by the way, thanks for your donations, much appreciated 👍👌
This is your best video ever you did not do that much talking 😂😂👍
How would you do that curve with durock? Do you screw into the liner? I am stuck there.
I want to replace my tub for a walkin shower in a mobile home...will the steps be the same..
Maynard James Keenan is this you!!
That was worth it just for the music.
Serious question: Is that mortar bed strong enough to use without tile? What if you just painted it with something like waterproof epoxy paint? Never much liked tile and it's such a bother.
Why on some projects are a pre-pan installed then a finished pan with the liner sandwiched in between but then on this video, the liner fits directly on your base then a pan formed? My current project has a 6 X 3 pit with a center located drain. Does size dictate one or two pans? Thanks!
A pre slope is a thing of the past since everyone waterproofs their shower.
No pebbles around the weep holes?
Inspectors here in Oregon will fail my pan liners if they are not presloped. You are lucky you don't have to do this extra step makes it easier to install the liner. I also put some kinda of shim on the outside top part of the curb so the liner slopes into the shower area. Looks like it will hold water to me. Might want to protect the sides up the curb wall extra protection never hurts. Would like to see how you do the curb part. Do you use wire mesh over the curb and mud set it?
Everybody needs to get off of the whole pre-slope thing because if you waterproof your surface which everyone that I know does, then the pre slope would never kick in any way
That would be nice. When I do a large shower I got to wait for the preslope to dry before laying the liner.. PITA unless I put a board down on the liner so I don't mess up the slope..
It's because after a while soap, shampoo, and body oils mess with the pan waterproof membrane. At that point, water penetrates the mortar and sits stagnant on a non-presloped liner.
@msavage138 That sounds like BS, show me proof of that
@@StarrTile Then why bother to put in a pan liner at all?
Great videos Bob Thank You, Question, could you just use RedGuard as a pan liner? Maybe 3 or 4 coats and then use another 3 coats of RedGuard on top of your Mud. Thanks
Yes, Redgard allows for their product to the pan liner. I don't know the mil thickness they are looking for but 3-4 coats would do the trick.
Having said that, because I have a customer base answer to I would not attempt it personally and instead use kerdi..which I have on many occasions for curbless showers on a slab.
I just had to throw in my two cents when I read this question.. if I understand your question correctly you want to possibly do away with the ~$30 shower membrane and put several layers of red guard which would cost over a hundred dollars easy. Why would someone want to go that route?
@@estephenchavez9577 I've never installed a rubber liner ( if thats what your talking about) and I don't like the way inside corners make wall board bump out. Red Guard is a bit pricy @ $150.00, 3 gal pail but I'm using on walls anyway, so I use as a pan liner also. I did call Custom Blend Tec support and got the OK. I can usually do 2 showers with 1 pail and the home owner pays for material anyway. That's my 2 cents. Peace my fellow Tile Contractor.
@@garrypieroni8038 yes I was talking about the plastic liner... my thinking is using a shower liner would be more cost effective and quicker than red guard but if youve had positive results I can't knock it
I appreciate Bob's time and effort to make these videos, and also his skill in the trade, but I can see why his method confuses a lot of people. He uses a pan liner even though the topical membrane makes the liner superfluous, and he uses a weep hole-style drain that would be suitable for a water-in, water-out system, even though he's not building that type of system. I'm sure his showers don't fail because he is tying the components together with care, but it still doesn't make a whole lot of sense to do it this way. That's why he's always fielding nasty comments about not knowing what he's doing.
Thank you for the kind words sir, let me go over a few things, they don't make a drain without weep holes because the drain manufacturers are behind the curve on the sealèd system that we are doing now. The reason I still do a liner in addition to protecting the surface of the mortar pan is force of habit, do I absolutely have to have the pan liner? In my opinion know but I do it anyway....cya.
Insofar as what the industry standards are, I started doing things long before they became standards, 25 years ago I wasn't seeing blocking so I put blocking between the studs, now it is basically code, 15 years ago I started setting my wallboard about an inch off of the pan motar, now the tcna and other organizations call for that in their manuals. 10 years ago I waterproof the entirety of my shower including the mortar bed, everybody had their pushed back but now that it's called the sealed system and it is standard... plus you have manufacturers like flow fx who is making it easier with their drain to do what I've already done with a liquid topical membrane.
Yes I am a maverick, but I'm also an innovator, everybody else just reads books where I use critical thinking 🫡😉
Beauty vids brother i got one question, once i get the liner in, the final spin on peice of the drain, after i set the height, I just slap down the mortar? Thanks
Yes and do the best you can do firmly pack it around the neck of the drain
@@StarrTile awesome thanks for the response!
I have viewed many of your u tube video's in regards to shower pan liner / mortar. While you install one bed of mortar, some other guys do two. What is the benefit of doing it twice? I am going to use your method. Curious???
Two beds is unnecessary. Who started this trend, I don’t know? The liner is to waterproof the subfloor, not for drainage.
So I’ve been told to use pea gravel around the weep holes on the drain so no mortar can get into them and clog them. Thoughts??
We are not doing water in water out system anymore so because we are waterproofing the entirety of the pan surface the weep holes would never kick in, having said that it doesn't make any sense to do an extremely porous product which would be Pebbles instead of a less porous product which would be your sand mix, this might take
I forgot to add that a heat gun works wonders you just have to be careful not to burn the liner very careful.
What if i dont want to put tile and i want to do all concrete for my floor.. can i use all mortar and just slope to the actual drain height? Should i use pebbles for weep holes?
Not sure I understand your question, you need to put tile on top of the mortar, not sure how you would just have a Tite-less pan...
And no I have never put pebbles at the weep holes, it would basically create a clog more than the mortar sand whatever do, but having said that we waterproof the entirety of the pan now so everything below it is irrelevant
Great video! How do you then attach tile to the outside of the step where there is rubber liner but not the mortar?
The step...or curb as it's called... is wrapped with backer board, muded and waterproofed then tiled
Great video. Lots of comments on preslope or why not here. The subfloor should be very very close to level 1st and foremost, wood or concrete slab. If not this is where you create a pre slope or use floor leveler or level up a plywood sub floor. The pan liner gives the wood sub floor some protection against water all over it if water gets past the grout and the entire mortar bed becomes soaked 101%. You're then hoping water goes to the drain as path of least resistance. You've got a big fail when this happens. My question is why is the mud bed so thick?
Do you have any opinions on pre slope. I’ve always used them but wonder what you do to combat standing water in the pan?
I don't believe that a pre-slope works as intended because wicking action, having said that everybody waterproofs the pan surface nowadays so it doesn't matter
@@StarrTile but if you do a pan liner and mud isn't throwing a waterproofing over it a bad thing? Aren't you basically trapping water in between?
@Mikepopo99 the pan liner is not necessary, I still do 1 because habits die hard... but the motar bad should be fully dry and cured before waterproofing the surface, therefore you cannot have moisture in between the two, unless of course you're doing it wrong.
I prefer to use a liquid topical membrane like Redguard or aquadefense whereas other tile guys are using some type of membrane like Kerdi, a cloth membrane with tape at the seams, etc etc, either way it's done it is a sealed system once again makes the whole notion of a pre-slope irrelevant
Great Video Bob. Do you have an opinion on the GOOF PROOF Quick Pitch system?
Yes I think it's a great product for a homeowner to use, it would take me too long to set up because I don't need that product but I will be making a mock-up demo video very soon exactly that
@@StarrTile Thank you. Im learning a ton from your videos
11:38 Bangin' on the bathroom floor while you're screwin' the pan liner to the bathroom floor. Was that done on purpose Bob??? LOL!!
Hi ,how long do I have to wait for the mortar mix to dry so I can go to the next step? I heard you said 3 days,is that right?
3 days minimum...longer if possible, 15 days
@@StarrTile gracias 🙂
Just making sure cause everyone else in other videos just wait 24 hours ,
But thanks very much for your videos
Están buenísimos 👏
Liner over plywood? Do you ever build a thin cement base first, then the liner, then water test, then the second layer of cement, then waterproof and then tile?
No, I don't do any of that stuff you're talking about, just how you see it in the video
I've seen now people do not put in a liner at all because as you also mention here, you do not put a preslope and I did not see pepples around the weeping holes so the liner appears to be redundant. If waterproofed with red guard or the orange schluter along with an epoxy grout, I do not see the need for the liner anymore. Your thoughts on this?
Yes, everything you said is true
A liner is to protect the subfloor from water damage not for drainage.
Do you need a pan liner if you're building a shower on concrete and not over wood?
Yes definitely, although the waterproofing membrane can be used in place of a pan liner like Redguard or aquadefense
how do you bend the inside corners of the liner , you cut and beninside the 2x4s? thank you
Yes you could do that but usually there are double 2x4 in corners where you can't.
I just use hospital type folds
...bc of your other video i skipped the preslope... thanks
Without measurements how can you be sure you got the 1/4 per foot slope?
Is it by choice that you don't shop at lowes? Just curious. Do you shop suppliers/wholesale or big box stores. As always I appreciate your ideas and methods as they tend to be down to earth. Thx, and happy new year.
I don't shop at Lowe's because I don't like their product line generally speaking, Plus they don't give the veterans 10% discount Like Home Depot does, and I can't go in there and get 2 feet of baseboard, they make you pay for a whole 8-foot section....
But yeah, HD is my go to store unless I need specialty items and I have tile stores fir that.
@@StarrTile I've started using their app. Order it the day before if I can and boom is ready. Or if it's a part for stock, I'll just have them send it to me
@@StarrTile I'm surprised Lowes does not give you the 10% military discount. I took my DD214 to customer service and they put me right in the system. I give the cashier my phone# and it takes off 10%. I live in Texas.
@@dustchip8060 yes I believe Lowe's had said something about applying oh, and I didn't go through any process of bringing anything in because I carry my VA card in my wallet, I show that Home Depot and that's good enough
@@StarrTile I bought the 10" Rigid tile saw from Home Depot and they accepted my VA card as well.
Have you ever installed 4" x 48" porcelain floor tile? My client just bought it for their master bath I've completely gutted.I didn't realize tile even came in that length and small width. Already anticipating a nightmare. lol. There is 1/8" of bow up in the middle of the tiles.
Any advice on installation procedure outside the norm?
By the way, I use your procedure to install liners, mud beds and backer board. Thank you for the teaching.
Do you lay floor tile next before wall board?
Yes
Like your work! Not too crazy on the power tools you use. :-) Why that brand drill???
Did it drill the screws?
@@azdeh1894 The question is not if it drilled the screws but how many screws will you drill with that drill. Not too many. lol
@@betobeto7903 The work doesn't require high use of a drill, it is more than enough. Personally, Ryobi is too bulky, feels cheap and underpowered for my needs but it will do the job. If you can't afford other brands, it's more than capable,
@@azdeh1894 nice answer, I now agree! :-)
@StarrTile where do I get the black bin to mix the mortar?
Home Depot
@@StarrTile Thanks.
Question. wouldn't put the durock before the mud?
No, never ever. It’s an overlapping system bottom then sides. Installing Durock first leaves a crack around edges for water to penetrate.
Do we need a pre-slope bed before the shower liner goes in
I don't do pre slopes... if you wanted to no harm no foul but if you were waterproofing the pan surface then it wouldn't make any difference
2 sponges worth of water sounds less than recomend on bag? Just trying to understand your method it seems more like playing sand than mortar. Is that easier?
The only reaaon I mentioned 2 sponges full because people want to know what thickness their mortar should be and that always works for me, I suppose you could get a measuring cup and do it by the book but I don't