I think a way to avoid using the flat character is to at first put some of the team members into a buddy dynamic, similar to Rocket and Groot, or Han Solo and Chewbacca. That way we can learn a bit more about them through a connection to another character. Another idea I have is if you are making more than one instalment in a franchise like Harry Potter, don’t introduce all seven of your magnificent seven characters in the same movie. That way some are more fleshed out then others, and the Sequel can focus on those not previously fleshed out.
The way I would twist the "flat" character is to make them talentless and/or clumsy. Like that one guy on a football team that no one knows why he's there. One of the talented people on the team dies forcing them to step up and fill the vacant spot. This would cause character development making them not flat anymore.
I think you should use the Magnificent Seven in your Episode 9 rewrite. I even have roles for you. Kira: Leader Sam: Lancer Luke: Mentor Chewbacca: Big Guy R2D2: Smart Guy C-3PO: Comic Relief And Finn: New Guy (the one where he’s last to be introduced). Like my suggestion?
Phoenix Studios I know I’m two weeks late, but so far the only thing I’m disappointed by in your versions is the lack of screen time for C-3PO (Leia too, but I understand due to Carrie Fishers passing).
WRITING CHALLENGE: Create your own original Magnificent Seven Samurai team and/or plot to go along with it (can be any genre). Share your imagination with me down below! I can't wait to see what you guys come up with! 😃
Can it be from an already existing material, or something original? And something I would do is create a story where four of the characters are being fleshed out, and then the other three get most of the development in the next story.
Phoenix Studios dang that’s a little hard as I haven’t fully realized a story, and four characters would act as Mentors to other characters in the second saga, but for Saga 1- A Hothead teenager as the Leader, A Shy teenage girl as the Lancer, Stoic teenager as the Big Guy, Kid with psychic abilities as the Smart Guy, Hyperactive teenager as the Comic Relief, Human-Machine Hybrid as the New Guy (was previously a villain), and an Elderly Man with psychic abilities as the Mentor. The plot involves them fighting against an alien apocalypse, and they don’t come together in the first adventure. Edit: Four of them are kinda like the TMNT being siblings, and the other three are allies who join them, like Splinter, April, and Casey. They don’t come together in the very first story.
I HAVE BEEN CHALLENGED and so i will do my best: A 7 samurail team, The leader: a yougn alien stranded on eart (to find a mcguffin and someting whent bad) The lancer: a rowdy pre-teen that does not care if the leader is a alien, he just needed to get away from his familly (also because its a alien cmon) The smart guy would be a dog who SOMEHOW gives the rest of the team solutions to problems (is a actuall dog that the leader misstook for a superior being and so he trust its 'jujement') The big guy would be the only adult of the team, his size allowing him to reach in hight places and carring relatively eavy stuff since the rest of them are kids (follows the team because he belives it would be iresponsable to let a bunch of kid whit a alien alone, but does not think about calling the police in any whay) The mentor: is the oldest teenager of the group, a chill dude who says things like 'yea man thats justs life my dude' while actually being a helpfull mentor to the alien about earts custom like 'You cant eat a cat, my dude, thats so uncool' and about the lancer familly issues like ''you cant let them take control of you life, bro, make mistakes, Befriend a alien, its yo choice my man''(friends whit comic relief and the lancer and had nothing better to do this weekend so he followed them) The naive newcomer: would be a alien too, a different speicies from the leader, that just whant to learn stuff and 'do my best, sir' (is crewmate of the leader) The comic relief: Its the dogs owner, does not know what is going on and the entire time is just trying to get his dog home. the plot would probably be: Aliens crash, oh no where are we, MCGUFFIN TAKEN BY HUMANS, cant leave witout it, finds dog and befrends it, lancer mantor and comic relief come in to find dog, leader decides they are his crew now, adult neigbour sees a bunch of kids whit aliens and is like 'thats weird might as well see wassapn' Dog finds were mcuffin is, big guy can open doors omg, rookie makes a mistake and bad humans capture em, they got mcufin so leader could leave, suspenfull tention to see if they are going to rescue em, they go rescu em, dog finds where they are kept at, rescue mission compleete! rush to crash site, oh no bad humans found it, AND ITS THE LANCERS PARRENTS???? dog goes in and comic relief follows 'dog come back here!' and makes big distraction for group to go (accidentally ut leader is like 'what a brave soul'), get to ship, fix ship, oh no bad humans! entire team in space! (exept for dog a comic relief who were just sent home) Leader gets everybody home, teary goodbyes, Lancer decides to go whit the alien *cue bromance playing* because gay aliens is what is going to save the world! i guess this turned out to be a familly comedy? i would what that and thats all that counts to me also what do you think? c: me likes challenges
Great video! For more me an interesting example of this trope is the Phantom Thieves from Persona 5, where the titular characters use Personas (manifestations of their rebel spirit) to fight criminals in another dimension. While they have more than 7 members, they fit into the archetypes of this trope and of the five man band. First off is Joker who is the team leader, and also the primary protagonist. The mentor role is filled by Morgana a cat who teachers Joker about Personas. The Smart guy role is filled by both Makoto a girl who served as the team's strategist and Futaba a girl who is an expert hacker. The big guy role is filled out by three characters Ryuji, Haru, and Makoto whose personas have Lightning, Gun, and Nucular powers respective. The comic relief is filled by Yusuke, who is an aspiring artist, who views everything with said mindset, technically he's a cloud coo coo lander, but Tv Tropes lists it under the comic relief category. The naive new comer is filled by whoever the game introduces as a new member during a certain arc. The heart of the team is best filled by Haru a lonely rich girl who helps Morgana when he leaves the team and helps bring him back with the rest and is the most caring out of the group. The Lancer role is filled by Akechi who prior to joining the team is a detective trying to stop them, and finds himself on the opposite side of an argument on justice with Joker. Both also have similar backgrounds of being outcasts who rose to popularity, and being done wrong by adults in the past. Half the team is comprised of girls, including Ann, Makoto, Futaba, Haru, and (In the rerelease Royal) Kasumi filling the chick archetype, and also the aforementioned new comer when they first unlock their Persona. In addition elements of the games story follows the story structure you mentioned, the reason the thieves are formed in the first place is to fight against a teacher named Kamoshida, who trains the volleyball team abusively and sexually harassess female students. As a result of the teachers being quite and the students not fighting back the original 4 thieves, (Joker, Morgana, Ryuji, and Ann) go to the other dimension to take out his counterpart and make him confess his crimes. The game follows the structure with the thieves taking down other criminals and making them confess their crimes. Eventually they do hit a low point, where something goes wrong and they are set up by the bad guys, which causes the public to turn against them. Where it differs from the structure is that they recruit new members during each new mission, and there isn't a training sequence. So yeah that's really it. Also I found it cool that you used Clone Wars as an example.
@@TheChroNikler498 are you serious right now? He gets so much development, especially in the first two seasons. The first episode is focused on him and he gradually becomes family with the league.
@@RadinV1 Remember what he said, flat characters don't get development when there isn't enough run time. As a TV show, Justice League was able to explore each of its characters thoroughly. But during the pilot Martian Manhunter was more of a plot device than a character.
@@TheChroNikler498 I don't know what to say, that's just wrong. His arc was very well developed and definitely not filler. The one that can be argued was Hawkgirl but that was intentional because they wanted to keep her backstory a secret until the last episode.
*First team film* Laughs due to literally any other story could have borrowed elements from Three Musketeers or Arthur's Knights... And Seven Samurai likely had some inspiration from the Sanada Ten Braves
@@phoenixstudios9078 Superman (Leader), Batman (Brains), Green Lantern {John Stewert} (Strong Man), Flash {Wally West} (The Trikster), Wonder Woman (Flat Guy), Hawkgirl (The Chick) and Martin Manhunter (The Mentor)
I'd disagree with Lee being a flat character as he does have a character arc to him, which I think adds one more character type to the Seven: the Secret Coward. Here, Lee is a known and respected bounty hunter of such fame that even Chris is a little intimidated by him, and even through out the story offers cold advice about the job the Seven end up taking. However, it is revealed that Lee is a coward as he actively avoids engaging in the fight, and even suffers a mental breakdown after a terrible dream about the fact he is a coward. His arc comes to a resolution though, as he agrees to return to save the village, and even kills a room full henchmen before being shot in the back. His reward is being honored as a hero, even in death.
@@Tracer_Krieg Mmm. I'd still say that Lee is the Flat Character because he only has two character traits; his PTSD and his legendary career. There's nothing else to him besides those two things. Sure he might have some really minor character development, but that still doesn't mean he's a well-rounded and fleshed out character with a distinct personality.
@@phoenixstudios9078 To each their own opinion. While I would argue Lee is the weakest character there and needed further to be developed especially with why he is a coward, I wouldn't say he is flat as like you said, he does have development. If anything, the remake of the movie has two that easily make for Flat: the Apache and the Mexican Bandito. We know nothing about them, they have literally no character development with the exception of the Apache's distaste for another of his own kind working for the bad guys, and leave the story unchanged from how they started it.
Glad to hear it, man :) Unfortunately, I've been really busy with school, work and just life in general. I'm editing a rewrite right now, but who knows how long it will take with everything that's going on. I probably won't be able to upload it until next month.
so, the plot of magnificent seven samurai archetype is basically the hero's journey but with gathering a team + defeat specifically a community + follow their separate ways in the end?
Not sure if you've seen James Gunn's The Suicide Squad, but if so do you have roles for them? Bloodsport, Peace Maker, Rick Flag, Harley Quinn, King Shark, Rat Catcher 2, and Polka Dot Man, do they fall under this trope or no?
I have seen it and I loved it! I'm not sure if I'm correct in my guess, but I believe that Bloodsport is the Leader, Peacemaker is the Lancer, King Shark is the Big Guy, Rick Flag is the Mentor, Polka-Dot Man is the Comic Relief, Ratcatcher 2 is the Naive Newcomer...I'm actually not sure about Harley Quinn...maybe they're not a Magnificent Seven Samurai...they might be a Five-Man Band with a Sixth Ranger... Let me down below what you all think! I'd love to hear what you guys think.
@@phoenixstudios9078 I loved it also! Thx, I pretty much had some of the roles correct but if they're not a Magnificent Seven, then who's the Sixth Ranger? I'm in the process of writing a Seven just more chaotic like TSS which is why I'm asking
@@rainiersmith2449 Ah, I see. I think the singular reason why the 2021 Suicide Squad doesn't qualify as any team archetype is because they lack a Smart Guy. Regardless of whether they are a Five-Man Band or Magnificent Seven Samurai, they seem to be missing a crucial archetype. But I'm totally open to being proven wrong.
How about an archetype of a 10-person team? I'm trying to write one. My main issue is anointing every member with their place/title on the team. And this is important for the story. I already have the basic five-man band positions. I just need five more. Leader Brain Big guy Lancer Heart I can't use the mentor because he can be part of it. The comic relief can be used by any other member--mainly Lancer. The Naive newcomer won't work because several of them will fit that. And none of them are gonna be flat! I just need them actually give something to the team. One character can be the medic of the group. One other can be the Lancer while the previous one is more of a scout/fast guy. The last three don't really have much to offer other than fight. I don't want flat characters.
Funny enough, very early and original comic books didn't do a very good job at establishing what roles their characters played in for their teams. It wasn't until later comics that writers fleshed out those team dynamics. So for example, in the first Justice League comic "The Brave and the Bold #28", I can't assign any characters any roles because the team wasn't well-developed yet. It would take years before writers caught up to using those archetypes. Another thing too, like I mentioned in my Five-Man Band video, the Justice League characters are constantly swapping roles with each new author. So needless to say, there isn't just one answer I can give you because there isn't just one version of the Justice League that was created by just one author. It all depends on which writer we're talking about and what their own personal interpretation of the team was. Does that make sense?
Phoenix Studios I say maybe Superman as the Leader, Batman as the Lancer, Wonder Woman as the Smart Guy, Aquaman as the Big Guy, and Martian Manhunter as the Mentor. Both Green Lantern and Flash have kinda both Comic Relief and Inexperienced New Guys. That is how I would do the Justice League. Like it?
@@guspeixoto7740 Most of it seems aboutt right. Why would you want Wonder Woman to be the Smart Guy when you have Flash on the team, who's significantly way more tech and book smart than she is?
Phoenix Studios oh Flash is still smart, it’s just Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter are the two oldest of the group and Martian mentors her as much as the others. Wonder Woman is very knowledgeable about Earth, and I think it could create an interesting dynamic between her and Aquaman, as they are both strangers from from hidden locations.
@@guspeixoto7740 Ok. I think Diana would have more street smarts than anything else. She's been around long enough to know how the world of man works ex: politics, wars, culture, history, religion, economy, business etc. But she wouldn't have any book smarts outside of Greek mythology and lore. She wouldn't have a mind for science like Barry, who's wrapped up in physics, chemistry, anatomy etc.
Anyone know what happened to Robin Sprung? I just found this channel and I want to learn about these Archetypes when I'm working. When I went to complete the series, the channel was empty...
I would very much like to disagree with your version of IT. I would say a look in the book will make more sense to understand the characters. Bill is the leader, yea, but Richie is very much the comic relief. Even in the film, he is pointed out as that in universe. He's the guy who cracks jokes because he can't deal with anything. The role of the lancer i think is Stan, the cowardly quiet one (contrasting with the very brave leader) that really cares about the hero but opposes him quite regularly. Again, that's also in the movie. It also explains why the group feels like there's such a big hole in it when he dies. Ben is the new guy, yea, even though he isn't the newest member of the losers, but he has that feel even in the book. And for the others... well it depends what you call a big guy. If you're looking for a hardened character, a fighter who reliably never gives up, it's Bev. The smart guy in the book at least is Eddie, he's the one the group relies on to think most of the time, but it did get lost in the movies. And Mike is in the unique position of being a second "new guy" who very much transitions to be the group's mentor. Also, while being their same age, he carries a lot of old baggage about the evils of Derry. The fire at the black spot is related to him, and only him, and he's the obe mentoring the group when they come back as adults. Long story short: Bill the leader, Stan the lancer, Bev the big guy (or more accurately tough guy), Eddie the smart guy (or idea guy), Richie the comic relief, Ben the new guy and Mike the mentor. NOT a flat character.
That's a pretty compelling and accurate argument! I'll admit I've only seen the IT movies and haven't read the books, but nonetheless you make a pretty good case. Thank you for correcting me without being a dick :)
Kiuzo in Seven Samurai and Britt, James Colburn, Magnificent Seven are Mentors but they are really very flat, by their own choice we know very little about them, so it might be a character with two roles.
I think a way to avoid using the flat character is to at first put some of the team members into a buddy dynamic, similar to Rocket and Groot, or Han Solo and Chewbacca. That way we can learn a bit more about them through a connection to another character.
Another idea I have is if you are making more than one instalment in a franchise like Harry Potter, don’t introduce all seven of your magnificent seven characters in the same movie. That way some are more fleshed out then others, and the Sequel can focus on those not previously fleshed out.
The way I would twist the "flat" character is to make them talentless and/or clumsy. Like that one guy on a football team that no one knows why he's there. One of the talented people on the team dies forcing them to step up and fill the vacant spot. This would cause character development making them not flat anymore.
2:42 that is such a perfect example.
Everyone loves to hate on her lol.
@@phoenixstudios9078 she deserves it haha
2:42 lol it’s Bella from Twilight.
Classic example of a flat character lol.
I think you should use the Magnificent Seven in your Episode 9 rewrite. I even have roles for you.
Kira: Leader
Sam: Lancer
Luke: Mentor
Chewbacca: Big Guy
R2D2: Smart Guy
C-3PO: Comic Relief
And Finn: New Guy (the one where he’s last to be introduced).
Like my suggestion?
Yeah it's a good idea. I'll have to think about it.
Phoenix Studios I know I’m two weeks late, but so far the only thing I’m disappointed by in your versions is the lack of screen time for C-3PO (Leia too, but I understand due to Carrie Fishers passing).
@@guspeixoto7740 Don't worry. I took that into account and I'm compensating for that by giving C-3PO more screen time in Rise of Skywalker.
WRITING CHALLENGE: Create your own original Magnificent Seven Samurai team and/or plot to go along with it (can be any genre). Share your imagination with me down below! I can't wait to see what you guys come up with! 😃
Can it be from an already existing material, or something original?
And something I would do is create a story where four of the characters are being fleshed out, and then the other three get most of the development in the next story.
@@guspeixoto7740 Original concepts. I want you to come up with your own team.
Phoenix Studios dang that’s a little hard as I haven’t fully realized a story, and four characters would act as Mentors to other characters in the second saga, but for Saga 1- A Hothead teenager as the Leader, A Shy teenage girl as the Lancer, Stoic teenager as the Big Guy, Kid with psychic abilities as the Smart Guy, Hyperactive teenager as the Comic Relief, Human-Machine Hybrid as the New Guy (was previously a villain), and an Elderly Man with psychic abilities as the Mentor. The plot involves them fighting against an alien apocalypse, and they don’t come together in the first adventure.
Edit: Four of them are kinda like the TMNT being siblings, and the other three are allies who join them, like Splinter, April, and Casey. They don’t come together in the very first story.
I HAVE BEEN CHALLENGED and so i will do my best:
A 7 samurail team, The leader: a yougn alien stranded on eart (to find a mcguffin and someting whent bad) The lancer: a rowdy pre-teen that does not care if the leader is a alien, he just needed to get away from his familly (also because its a alien cmon) The smart guy would be a dog who SOMEHOW gives the rest of the team solutions to problems (is a actuall dog that the leader misstook for a superior being and so he trust its 'jujement') The big guy would be the only adult of the team, his size allowing him to reach in hight places and carring relatively eavy stuff since the rest of them are kids (follows the team because he belives it would be iresponsable to let a bunch of kid whit a alien alone, but does not think about calling the police in any whay) The mentor: is the oldest teenager of the group, a chill dude who says things like 'yea man thats justs life my dude' while actually being a helpfull mentor to the alien about earts custom like 'You cant eat a cat, my dude, thats so uncool' and about the lancer familly issues like ''you cant let them take control of you life, bro, make mistakes, Befriend a alien, its yo choice my man''(friends whit comic relief and the lancer and had nothing better to do this weekend so he followed them) The naive newcomer: would be a alien too, a different speicies from the leader, that just whant to learn stuff and 'do my best, sir' (is crewmate of the leader) The comic relief: Its the dogs owner, does not know what is going on and the entire time is just trying to get his dog home.
the plot would probably be: Aliens crash, oh no where are we, MCGUFFIN TAKEN BY HUMANS, cant leave witout it, finds dog and befrends it, lancer mantor and comic relief come in to find dog, leader decides they are his crew now, adult neigbour sees a bunch of kids whit aliens and is like 'thats weird might as well see wassapn' Dog finds were mcuffin is, big guy can open doors omg, rookie makes a mistake and bad humans capture em, they got mcufin so leader could leave, suspenfull tention to see if they are going to rescue em, they go rescu em, dog finds where they are kept at, rescue mission compleete! rush to crash site, oh no bad humans found it, AND ITS THE LANCERS PARRENTS???? dog goes in and comic relief follows 'dog come back here!' and makes big distraction for group to go (accidentally ut leader is like 'what a brave soul'), get to ship, fix ship, oh no bad humans! entire team in space! (exept for dog a comic relief who were just sent home) Leader gets everybody home, teary goodbyes, Lancer decides to go whit the alien *cue bromance playing* because gay aliens is what is going to save the world!
i guess this turned out to be a familly comedy?
i would what that and thats all that counts to me
also what do you think? c:
me likes challenges
@@guspeixoto7740 Got it. Very cool.
Great video! For more me an interesting example of this trope is the Phantom Thieves from Persona 5, where the titular characters use Personas (manifestations of their rebel spirit) to fight criminals in another dimension. While they have more than 7 members, they fit into the archetypes of this trope and of the five man band. First off is Joker who is the team leader, and also the primary protagonist. The mentor role is filled by Morgana a cat who teachers Joker about Personas. The Smart guy role is filled by both Makoto a girl who served as the team's strategist and Futaba a girl who is an expert hacker. The big guy role is filled out by three characters Ryuji, Haru, and Makoto whose personas have Lightning, Gun, and Nucular powers respective. The comic relief is filled by Yusuke, who is an aspiring artist, who views everything with said mindset, technically he's a cloud coo coo lander, but Tv Tropes lists it under the comic relief category. The naive new comer is filled by whoever the game introduces as a new member during a certain arc. The heart of the team is best filled by Haru a lonely rich girl who helps Morgana when he leaves the team and helps bring him back with the rest and is the most caring out of the group. The Lancer role is filled by Akechi who prior to joining the team is a detective trying to stop them, and finds himself on the opposite side of an argument on justice with Joker. Both also have similar backgrounds of being outcasts who rose to popularity, and being done wrong by adults in the past. Half the team is comprised of girls, including Ann, Makoto, Futaba, Haru, and (In the rerelease Royal) Kasumi filling the chick archetype, and also the aforementioned new comer when they first unlock their Persona. In addition elements of the games story follows the story structure you mentioned, the reason the thieves are formed in the first place is to fight against a teacher named Kamoshida, who trains the volleyball team abusively and sexually harassess female students. As a result of the teachers being quite and the students not fighting back the original 4 thieves, (Joker, Morgana, Ryuji, and Ann) go to the other dimension to take out his counterpart and make him confess his crimes. The game follows the structure with the thieves taking down other criminals and making them confess their crimes. Eventually they do hit a low point, where something goes wrong and they are set up by the bad guys, which causes the public to turn against them. Where it differs from the structure is that they recruit new members during each new mission, and there isn't a training sequence. So yeah that's really it. Also I found it cool that you used Clone Wars as an example.
Yeah that definitely works! Nice recommendation.
this is everything my book is about.
Good stuff
Another awesome video! 😁
Thank you :)
And that is love the Justice league animated series for there members
And who's the flat character in that?
@@RadinV1 Martian Manhunter
@@TheChroNikler498 are you serious right now? He gets so much development, especially in the first two seasons. The first episode is focused on him and he gradually becomes family with the league.
@@RadinV1 Remember what he said, flat characters don't get development when there isn't enough run time. As a TV show, Justice League was able to explore each of its characters thoroughly. But during the pilot Martian Manhunter was more of a plot device than a character.
@@TheChroNikler498 I don't know what to say, that's just wrong. His arc was very well developed and definitely not filler. The one that can be argued was Hawkgirl but that was intentional because they wanted to keep her backstory a secret until the last episode.
*First team film*
Laughs due to literally any other story could have borrowed elements from Three Musketeers or Arthur's Knights... And Seven Samurai likely had some inspiration from the Sanada Ten Braves
Nice work, I would say the JL from DCAU is also a Magnificent Seven Samurai.
For sure. Out of curiosity, what roles do you think each of those characters fit into?
@@phoenixstudios9078 Superman (Leader), Batman (Brains), Green Lantern {John Stewert} (Strong Man), Flash {Wally West} (The Trikster), Wonder Woman (Flat Guy), Hawkgirl (The Chick) and Martin Manhunter (The Mentor)
Awesome video! :)
Thanks man!
I'd disagree with Lee being a flat character as he does have a character arc to him, which I think adds one more character type to the Seven: the Secret Coward.
Here, Lee is a known and respected bounty hunter of such fame that even Chris is a little intimidated by him, and even through out the story offers cold advice about the job the Seven end up taking. However, it is revealed that Lee is a coward as he actively avoids engaging in the fight, and even suffers a mental breakdown after a terrible dream about the fact he is a coward. His arc comes to a resolution though, as he agrees to return to save the village, and even kills a room full henchmen before being shot in the back. His reward is being honored as a hero, even in death.
So who would you say is the Flat Character?
@@phoenixstudios9078 In that movie? None of them. They all have something to do with memorable scenes given to each.
@@Tracer_Krieg Mmm. I'd still say that Lee is the Flat Character because he only has two character traits; his PTSD and his legendary career. There's nothing else to him besides those two things. Sure he might have some really minor character development, but that still doesn't mean he's a well-rounded and fleshed out character with a distinct personality.
@@phoenixstudios9078 To each their own opinion. While I would argue Lee is the weakest character there and needed further to be developed especially with why he is a coward, I wouldn't say he is flat as like you said, he does have development. If anything, the remake of the movie has two that easily make for Flat: the Apache and the Mexican Bandito.
We know nothing about them, they have literally no character development with the exception of the Apache's distaste for another of his own kind working for the bad guys, and leave the story unchanged from how they started it.
God dammit I wasn't ready to be reminded of Mollys death.
yay dnd images! also very nice and smart video! You are very understandable and educationnal c:
Thank you! I'm glad it all makes sense. Only DND love here lol.
Whens ur next rewrite out ? I'm a massive fan of them
Glad to hear it, man :) Unfortunately, I've been really busy with school, work and just life in general. I'm editing a rewrite right now, but who knows how long it will take with everything that's going on. I probably won't be able to upload it until next month.
so, the plot of magnificent seven samurai archetype is basically the hero's journey but with gathering a team + defeat specifically a community + follow their separate ways in the end?
Correct. There's a few more steps to it but you got the general gist.
@@phoenixstudios9078 Hmmm, I see. Thanks!
Not sure if you've seen James Gunn's The Suicide Squad, but if so do you have roles for them? Bloodsport, Peace Maker, Rick Flag, Harley Quinn, King Shark, Rat Catcher 2, and Polka Dot Man, do they fall under this trope or no?
I have seen it and I loved it! I'm not sure if I'm correct in my guess, but I believe that Bloodsport is the Leader, Peacemaker is the Lancer, King Shark is the Big Guy, Rick Flag is the Mentor, Polka-Dot Man is the Comic Relief, Ratcatcher 2 is the Naive Newcomer...I'm actually not sure about Harley Quinn...maybe they're not a Magnificent Seven Samurai...they might be a Five-Man Band with a Sixth Ranger...
Let me down below what you all think! I'd love to hear what you guys think.
@@phoenixstudios9078 I loved it also! Thx, I pretty much had some of the roles correct but if they're not a Magnificent Seven, then who's the Sixth Ranger? I'm in the process of writing a Seven just more chaotic like TSS which is why I'm asking
@@rainiersmith2449 Ah, I see. I think the singular reason why the 2021 Suicide Squad doesn't qualify as any team archetype is because they lack a Smart Guy. Regardless of whether they are a Five-Man Band or Magnificent Seven Samurai, they seem to be missing a crucial archetype. But I'm totally open to being proven wrong.
Comic industry pay attention to this!
Believe me, they have been. For years lol
@@phoenixstudios9078 this year they not.
ur nearly on 1k subs
I know! It's pretty exciting! I'm going to do a special video for when I reach that milestone.
How about an archetype of a 10-person team? I'm trying to write one. My main issue is anointing every member with their place/title on the team. And this is important for the story. I already have the basic five-man band positions. I just need five more.
Leader
Brain
Big guy
Lancer
Heart
I can't use the mentor because he can be part of it. The comic relief can be used by any other member--mainly Lancer. The Naive newcomer won't work because several of them will fit that. And none of them are gonna be flat! I just need them actually give something to the team. One character can be the medic of the group. One other can be the Lancer while the previous one is more of a scout/fast guy. The last three don't really have much to offer other than fight. I don't want flat characters.
Why not make two five-man bands working together?
Or two power trios and one elite four.
@@usmansubhani7482 well the ten are one team and their all close friends. I can’t put a rift between them.
@@WCLCooke there’s always circles between friends. So long as they are in the same area, they should be fine.
@@WCLCooke Refer to how One Piece gradually introduced the group rather than all at once.
@@usmansubhani7482 thanks I’ll find a way.
Seven Samurai had the Best Seven Team.
What about the seven Justice League members from the original comics, do you have roles for them?
Funny enough, very early and original comic books didn't do a very good job at establishing what roles their characters played in for their teams. It wasn't until later comics that writers fleshed out those team dynamics. So for example, in the first Justice League comic "The Brave and the Bold #28", I can't assign any characters any roles because the team wasn't well-developed yet. It would take years before writers caught up to using those archetypes.
Another thing too, like I mentioned in my Five-Man Band video, the Justice League characters are constantly swapping roles with each new author. So needless to say, there isn't just one answer I can give you because there isn't just one version of the Justice League that was created by just one author. It all depends on which writer we're talking about and what their own personal interpretation of the team was. Does that make sense?
Phoenix Studios I say maybe Superman as the Leader, Batman as the Lancer, Wonder Woman as the Smart Guy, Aquaman as the Big Guy, and Martian Manhunter as the Mentor. Both Green Lantern and Flash have kinda both Comic Relief and Inexperienced New Guys. That is how I would do the Justice League. Like it?
@@guspeixoto7740 Most of it seems aboutt right. Why would you want Wonder Woman to be the Smart Guy when you have Flash on the team, who's significantly way more tech and book smart than she is?
Phoenix Studios oh Flash is still smart, it’s just Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter are the two oldest of the group and Martian mentors her as much as the others. Wonder Woman is very knowledgeable about Earth, and I think it could create an interesting dynamic between her and Aquaman, as they are both strangers from from hidden locations.
@@guspeixoto7740 Ok. I think Diana would have more street smarts than anything else. She's been around long enough to know how the world of man works ex: politics, wars, culture, history, religion, economy, business etc. But she wouldn't have any book smarts outside of Greek mythology and lore. She wouldn't have a mind for science like Barry, who's wrapped up in physics, chemistry, anatomy etc.
What happened to the other channel, it has no videos
Anyone know what happened to Robin Sprung? I just found this channel and I want to learn about these Archetypes when I'm working. When I went to complete the series, the channel was empty...
I think he just disappeared. We can only use Tv tropes to understand the rest.
What about a six man group?
I have a video for that. Check it out down below :)
th-cam.com/video/3og8o2UDJiM/w-d-xo.html
Would you mind rewriting the terminator series?
I eventually plan on rewriting T3.
Phoenix Studios and the ones after that?
@@gregoryjohns3941 I'm going to rewrite T3 to be the final installment in the Terminator franchise. Turn it into a trilogy.
@@phoenixstudios9078 Cool Phoenix Studios!!!! a Terminator Trilogy and make the Ending Emotionally Beautiful and Satisfying!!!!!! 🤩🥰✌👍🤟
So when your next video gonna be?
Um hello are you there?
Helllllllllooo?!
You forgot the newest magnificent seven as an example
I would very much like to disagree with your version of IT. I would say a look in the book will make more sense to understand the characters. Bill is the leader, yea, but Richie is very much the comic relief. Even in the film, he is pointed out as that in universe. He's the guy who cracks jokes because he can't deal with anything. The role of the lancer i think is Stan, the cowardly quiet one (contrasting with the very brave leader) that really cares about the hero but opposes him quite regularly. Again, that's also in the movie. It also explains why the group feels like there's such a big hole in it when he dies. Ben is the new guy, yea, even though he isn't the newest member of the losers, but he has that feel even in the book. And for the others... well it depends what you call a big guy. If you're looking for a hardened character, a fighter who reliably never gives up, it's Bev. The smart guy in the book at least is Eddie, he's the one the group relies on to think most of the time, but it did get lost in the movies. And Mike is in the unique position of being a second "new guy" who very much transitions to be the group's mentor. Also, while being their same age, he carries a lot of old baggage about the evils of Derry. The fire at the black spot is related to him, and only him, and he's the obe mentoring the group when they come back as adults. Long story short: Bill the leader, Stan the lancer, Bev the big guy (or more accurately tough guy), Eddie the smart guy (or idea guy), Richie the comic relief, Ben the new guy and Mike the mentor. NOT a flat character.
That's a pretty compelling and accurate argument! I'll admit I've only seen the IT movies and haven't read the books, but nonetheless you make a pretty good case. Thank you for correcting me without being a dick :)
@@phoenixstudios9078 no worries!
Is it weird that the main reason I watch these writing tip videos is because I write Fanfiction? It's weird isn't it.
Nah, you're good. As long as you're learning and you're having fun with it, that's all that matters.
I mean, I'm here for dnd ideas so your reason atleast makes more sense than mine
Kiuzo in Seven Samurai and Britt, James Colburn, Magnificent Seven are Mentors but they are really very flat, by their own choice we know very little about them, so it might be a character with two roles.