What Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney Can Teach Us About the Japanese Legal System
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 เม.ย. 2022
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Hi viewers! I'm Moony: your host. I'm new to TH-cam and am pursuing video essays as a passion project. I apologize in advance for a modest release schedule: I'm a lawyer by day, and am very new to video-editing and the like. As such, the time I can devote to these videos might be a bit limited!
Let me know if you like this format, or if you have any suggestions. I don't have a Patreon or anything of the sort yet, but if people like the videos, maybe I can set something up in the future!
Thank you for tuning in! It truly means a lot to me. I hope, more than anything else, that you've enjoyed the video and learned something interesting.
I'm including links to some articles and source material on the topic of today's video for your reference, below:
www.nippon.com/en/japan-topic...
innocenceproject.org/center-o...
www.bbc.com/news/magazine-208... - เกม
![What do Undertale and Deltarune Say About the Meaning of Life? [SPOILERS]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GbtQJsNjldY/mqdefault.jpg)
You know, the high conviction rate in Japan and this game being a critique of that system explains something I'd always found weird - how much people freak out about how amazing of a defense attorney Phoenix is after winning like two cases, three max before he has this amazing reputation as "that god like defense attorney who doesn't ever lose!" Considering the system the games are shining a light on, this IS a remarkable thing.
much like the yakuza game, Judgement, where the MC is a defense lawyer that gets a guy off for murder & he immediately is rocketed into stardom.
Ace Attorney is a fun game, but it is too ridiculous to be considered a satire of anything.There are several problems with the Japanese justice system, but don't think that Ace Attorney is pointing them out. If you are interested, watch the video below. It is a video of a Japanese lawyer doing Ace Attorney. It explains how different it is from the real system.
th-cam.com/video/8ZasbiOsplc/w-d-xo.html
@@YT-st8yh Did you watch the video? Ridiculous or unrepresentative parody can be very illuminating. The legal system in these games looks nothing like any real court's proceedings because it's satirizing a legalistic culture, not a specific law system.
@@dogwalk3Yeah, and then he goes off and gets accused of murder again. Quick way to go from Fame to Infamy
@@dogwalk3i was going to say that!
So I have a good friend of mine who grew up in Hiroshima. I think an important part that he brought up but that you didn't mention in your video is that the police in Japan are known for torturing confessions out of people both physically and emotionally. He also explained the reason why in Japan most people say they support the police isn't because they value social stability, Japan's society like most of contemporary society is quite unstable, but instead it's because most people in Japan lack the desire to stand up against authority. Though these are based off of his personal experience. This is obviously a very complex topic and it's not like theres one answer thats going to explain the entire thing.
Just ask Jeff Master
Persona 5 thoroughly explored the topic of standing up against authority and the lack of public motivation to do so when it's necessary, while it's still conveyed well to an average western player it's heavily nuanced towards the Japanese sensibilities in society.
It works pretty much the same way in the U.S., which may be why that wasn't mentioned in the video.
@@KaiserMazoku white hair in just one day. you don't see that in other defendants
biden doj. compare to japanese police.i will say it’s same. actually doj is more… you know
After 15+ years of only knowing Ace Attorney from memes, the fandom being a fandom, and pop culture osmosis, this video is what convinced me to finally play the series. I beat the first game in a week and loved every second of it. I can't remember the last time any piece of media has had me frequently laugh long and hard from the belly. My world feels lighter and brighter, and I can't wait to finish the trilogy. Thank you so much!
8:59 To be fair, Lana was being blackmailed because she didn't want her sister to be arrested instead. It wasn't because she believed she was guilty, but rather taking the bullet for her sister
Athena's case might've been a bit better of an example, though it'd be a massive spoiler to Dual Destinies.
I think it is neat if you look at the original Trilogy (can't speak much for later games) and their presumption of guilt with the context of the Edgeworth spinoffs. In those games, in order to even make an arrest and press charges against a suspect Edgeworth has to be very thorough with gathering evidence and interrogations to convince those around him that he has enough to prove guilt before the future defendant is even arrested. The early cases in the Phoenix Wright games are often simple, because the police were off their game, but many cases seem settled before they start with a wealth of evidence and testimony already in the prosecution's favor, but Phoenix is able to unravel what is often an elaborate conspiracy that could likely get the defendant convicted in any country one thread at a time.
I know about how the legal process presented in the games is loosely based on Japanese law more than any other system, though I've seen bits of other games in the series that mix things up a bit, like the Layton crossover and its witch trials. I've also seen the first case of The Great Ace Attorney, where the context of the murder and how it would impact foreign relations sees the Japanese eager to get someone convicted as soon as possible. It makes me wonder that if the victim had been an ordinary Japanese citizen, would they have been more thorough in their investigations?
In the end, although these games seem to have started as a series of visual novel mystery adventure games with an undertone of critique of the Japanese legal system, I think it speaks wonders that this series is able to resonate with players across the world, even if they have to come up with ways to handwave why the trials are nothing like how they are handled elsewhere. The first game was intentionally developed to have a vague setting, so that it could be localized for American and possibly European audiences. When the first game initially failed to leave Japan on its GBA release, they made the next 2 games more Japanese, meaning that when the games got a second chance on the DS and were actually localized, they had the issue of making the game take place in California in the then not too distant future, where the rapid trials Phoenix faces are not the final jury trials, but a new kind of "initial trial" meant to help keep the legal system from getting backed up by giving defendants a rapid trial where they can either be acquited, or if found guilty presumably go on to have a proper American trial, though they would be at a strong disadvantage since they already had a trial and were considered guilty by a judge, which would definitely sway the jury. A system that means well, with the innocent able to be acquited within days instead of months or years, but rather dystopian in execution. The first game is at least mostly internally consistent, aside from the way evidence being presented being a free for all until the very end of the bonus case where there is suddenly evidence law, and apparently under this new legal system the fifth amendment has also been thoroughly altered. The more Japanese stuff in the sequels in the localized American setting had to be explained by the devs as the games taking place in an alternate timeline where America was a lot more welcoming of Japanese immigrants and many came to California and brought their culture and traditions, and thus could have over time influenced the legal system as well.
And yet, even with the whole alternate timeline and big differences between AA and the legal system in the US at least, we can still enjoy the games and connect with them in a way, because despite our supposed presumption of innocence, wrongful convictions do occur. The county I live in has a conviction rate percentage in the high 90s as well, and when my late stepfather went to trial he had to hire a famous, or infamous, real life ace attorney. When my brother was unfairly charged due to the police acting like those of an early AA case, he used the same attorney to get the case thrown out before arraignment, which didn't have an effect on the conviction rates since it was dropped before it went to trial. While it is easy to say that the American legal system is more fair with its supposed philosophy of better a hundred criminals go free than one innocent be wrongly convicted, in practice it doesn't always live up to that ideal, and so in a way these games can feel like a caricature of our own system at times.
I won't be able to read all this right now, but if someone else replies I'll get notified and finish
@@nahometesfay1112here's your notification :)
@@sevencats4964 Thank you! I'm glad I got to finish it!
I didn't know that AA was set in an alt history California. The idea that immigrants could fundamentally change the American government's legal system sounds implausible, but interesting. I understand it's just handwaved to enable the story/game, but the implications are fascinating. How would Japanese could have such an effect? Would this have been 19th century migrants and their descendants (surely it would take generations to have that effect)? Was the Japanese legal system the same back then? Did WW2 happen in this history (did Japan win?)? What about other Asian immigrants? Maybe the Japanese influence was more recent? Just a huge can of worms
Saw this on the Ace Attorney subreddit and watched it. It was a fascinating video with a very interesting look at the Japanese legal system. I certainly would agree about the collectivist society and how many Japanese people are taught to respect their elders so obviously that would pertain to the police despite them getting this one wrong
So, basically, the demon killer Hacker was a Japanese version of the Riddler? I'm surprised that didn't end up as an element in one of Phoenix's cases, I can totally see him and Maya trying to find a cat with an SD card with the evidence on it.
I mean, they did so in the final case of the second game, though not precisely on a cat.
@@nameynamd9212 and that case DID actually have a cat at some point, but it was a minor aspect. fun fact, its name was Shoe, so that it sounded just like the creator's name, Takumi *Shū.* weird how this incident happened _after_ the game was released by several years, life imitates art and all that
The big thing that really struck me with Phoenix Wright is how trials basically never resolved with the judge weighing the evidence and delivering a verdict, it was almost always Phoenix defeating the perpetrator in a metaphorical duel until they broke down and confessed on the stand, which gets into the centrality of confession in the Japanese legal system where defendants are basically expected to confess to their crimes (and if they don't, they obviously lack appropriate contrition and deserve even harsher punishment).
In Ace Attorney the legal system isn't innicent until proven guilty. It isn't guilty until proven innocent either: it's guilty until someone else confesses to the crime. You can prove without a doubt that the accused is innocent and still get a guilty verdict if you didn't find the actual culprit...
@@laytonjr6601well of course. *Someone* has to go to jail. If you prove it's not the guy we already have without giving us the correct other guy you're really just being a buzzkill and making our High fiving after he's sentenced feel awkward.
@@scoutobrien3406 There's even a case where the culprit says "you don't have a motive so despite the proof you can't declare me guilty" as if that's not what the judge has been doing to my client this whole timz
Duude y'know back in the day when I first played Ace Attorney, I figured it was commenting on crooked cops and a crooked justice system, and to a westerner's eyes it would certainly seem that way, but I never considered how Japanese collectivism played into it. Now knowing that the legal system is rooted in this collectivism, it provides a much clearer picture of just what the games are parodying. Good video, man! Cheers!
but actually it’s not that easy to convict people. please remember collective hive mind is decreasing. to be honest, i really think US some political people are much more collective minds. and it’s just getting worse…
Japan’s system sounds a lot like Cardassia’s as depicted on _Star Trek: Deep Space Nine,_ with the same presumption of guilt and emphasis on social control over all else, including truth and actual justice.
Seems like if you were some sort of Zodiac-style serial killer, Japan would be like playing on Easy mode: just engage in the most rudimentary of forensic countermeasures, point the evidence at some poor rando, and let him take the fall for your deeds.
I was just thinking about that Cardassia episode while watching this. Something something, great minds.
I'm thoroughly convinced there are a bunch of these that are literally never caught.
@@suezuccati304 Cardassians?
@@ErikNilsen1337 I mean, serial murderers that never got caught because the police just settles on arresting the first guy that comes up.
Hate to break it to you, but that's how most of the world works. Especially the USA.
Hi Moony! I am writing this to say I absolutely enjoyed your video. I am a big AA fan and enjoy law and philosphy as well.
The essay is very immersive and you are a great narrator!~
Keep it up, I hope to see more frm you~
How this guy has gone under the radar I have no idea, but I'm sure he'll get the attention he deserves soon enough.
jesus, hackers are so cool though. Demon killer literally pulled some Death Note mental battle strategy to make a fool of the system. what a hero
You're a very high quality channel! Thank you for these gifts!
I'm...absolutely shocked at the quality of this video.
Shocked. What a fascinating, intriguing, and extremely engaging piece of content that goes into the depth of something I don't understand in the slightest through the lens of something I'm obsessed with.
I'm glad you enjoyed the video, Yoshi! This was one of my earlier experimental videos, but it helped a great deal in teaching me what viewers are looking for in this niche!
You know, it's easy to keep thinking of Japan as a part of "the West", but so many things like this keep poking out to remind how very different it is. When you get past the tourist-layer and dig into the actual culture, you just start to realize how big the gap between western and asian cultures really are, and Japan is no exception, despite the heavy western influence.
Like most non-Western colonial powers (Russian and Ottoman Empire come to mind) there is a tendency to embrace the superficial elements of Western society- technology, fashion, food, military.
But when it comes to intangible things like value systems or views of the world, they rarely if ever change.
Even centuries of Westernization has not affected Turkey outside of Istanbul, and not even centuries of Islam has affected their more liberal attitudes compared to say, Saudi Arabia.
Frankly if Japan wasn't an ally we'd call their court system corrupt and autocratic, but I guess the "Place, Japan" meme applies to politicians, too.
Absolutely fantastic video. I’m a fairly new AA fan. Having only been converted after playing the updated rereleases on the Switch. And although I was aware of their exceedingly high conviction rate, I was largely unfamiliar with the nuances of Japanese culture (specifically via legal dogma). I never would have expected it to reflect cultural aspects of the Japanese legal system given the over-the-top cartoonishness of the series. Thanks for the insight and hope you continue to upload great content.
Ive struck gold, such an amazing channel and content!! How could i NOT subscribe imediatly! Thank you for the great content!!
I remember tv shows on PBS Kids ending the same way "...without viewers like you, so thank you" that was a nice warm touch I wasn't expecting
I think there's a touch of Lost Judgement in your story: an SD card containing revealing evidence, a man trying to expose the system as a fraud, et cetera.
Great video!! Keep them coming, I was shocked to see under 10,000 views for this and your Nintendo IP video. I think you'll get the numbers to match the quality soon 👍
Hey! I started watching your videos last week because youtube has been showing the thumbnail for "Why do you always kill gods in JRPGs?" for me all the time.
I watched it and it was a very very good surprise.
So I decided to watch all your videos chronologically.
It's been a great experience.
Thank you for taking the time not only to watch the old videos, but to comment! The older videos were all experiments to see what I wanted to do, with the Nintendo video representing my first "full" effort.
I keep them around for posterity, but occasionally a viewer goes through the old stuff and leaves a comment like your own, and it is always meaningful to me. Thank you, Danilo!
Your Nintendo video might be higher-rated, but this video's great too! You earned yourself a sub, Moony!
I'm so glad i found this channel!! the video essays are incredibly narrated and I love how the thesis is set up omg
8:44 transitioning to the more intense song here was perfect
Please keep making videos! I love this and your nintendo law video! These are so informative and mix two of my fave interests law and gaming!
Thank you for the video Moony.
13:20 That arithmetic only seems straight-forward if you can't do math. The most obvious conclusion from basic logic that the doctrine of "innocent until proven guilty" tends to only convict those truly guilty, but not ALL of those truly guilty (thus not reducing crime as much), while the doctrine of "guilty until proven innocent" is more likely to convict all of the guilty people (thus reducing crime), but just also happens to convict a lot of innocent people (which, if you believed in "natural law" or some such, you could call an increase in state "crime", to counteract the decrease in private crime). This second conclusion is actually not true if, as you suggest, people insist on only convicting one person for a single crime, thus meaning that (in cases where it is clear that a crime actually occurred) any wrong conviction also lets a guilty person go. If you really wanted to reap the societal benefits of the "guilty until proven innocent" doctrine, you would have to be willing to convict multiple for the same crime. The problem with this is that you would basically be ADMITTING that some (and probably most) of the people you convict are actually innocent, which would undermine public faith in the infallibility of the legal system. That being said, there is still some potential 'benefit' to the doctrine of "guilty until proven innocent" in cases where it is not clear that a crime occurred at all. This is similar to how vague laws and threats to make even unwinnable lawsuits can terrorize people into steering even further away from appearing to break laws than is strictly necessary. (In the American context, I've heard claims that this is a lot of how intellectual property rules are stretched beyond what the law says (though that one's probably even worse in Japan), and that it is the idea behind laws against teaching "critical race theory" in schools, since people can always be afraid of being sued for things that seem similar to illegal things, even if they aren't illegal.)
came here after your more recent video, gotta say these videos are great!
This was an exceptional video, great in concept and execution. Hope to see more videos like this in the future! Also looking forward to your Deltarune/Undertale video
Feels like some of the commentary on the japanese legal system in ace attorney is similar to sega's lost judgment in terms of the legal system being flawed and the prosecution behaviour are similar that they are always right on a guilty verdict mindset. Also the fact how the judgment games go against social harmony as the yagami in judgment questions japanese legal system on the conceps of many vs few.Also great video
This video essay was great!
Hope to see more of this.
Thanks to the algorithm. I was just listening to the video without looking at the screen much and just assumed it's some big creator. Shocked to see around 5k subs. You're so going to get to the top soon my man. Good work.
I was on edge this video wanting you to include the tidbit Legal Eagle gave as he reacted to Ace Attorney, the part about the U.S.'s laws leaning towards setting a criminal free rather than imprisoning an innocent person, to draw out the comparison between the West and Japanese society even further. But love the video, it's very informative, but I wish you could have also linked people to what a collectivist society is from Gaijin Goomba or Shogo's videos.
Sounds like an idea better suited for a collab video than a standalone. Too many different viewpoints to cram into one TH-camr's video.
I'm binging your channel after the last 1h40 "movie" you released because it was so well made and researched. Btw, I'll wait for the Deltarune/Undertale video, I'm really curious to see what you have to say
Loved this.
Hi been a huuuge fan of your work, just finished binging your content twice alredy! Theyre educational, interesting, well written and surprisingly entertaining!
I work on the game industry as a indie game dev who released allot of games already. I'm a fan of your gaming content, but I couldn't help but notice you're also a fan of anime seeing that you have that infamous anime site on your watermark. XD So if you would find a good topic regarding anime that would also be interesting, perhaps even anime bootlegs and fansubbing.
One interesting discussion that I saw no one pick up is -
"Does it work?"
Does putting social harmony and future crime prevention ahead of social justice work in reducing the crime rate? Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and even China has lower crime rates than most of Europe and America. Is the focus on social harmony paying dividends here?
And if it is, is the personal suffering the system caused worth it?
in reducing the crime rate? yes. japan with 126 million people has a homicide rate lower than norway (like 5 million people), which is considered by many the golden standard in the West. and more population and bigger urban areas tend to increase violent crime in all research. i think its 0.2 vs 0.6 or something but don't quote me on that.
is it worth it? well, that's up to you to decide
Great video and great channel! Good to see you starting to get a lot more views. ^_^
Playing this game changed how I saw justice, burden of proof during a trial and how the media and the justice sistem treats people during a trial.
Then I found myself in the middle of a frivolous lawsuit, and those teachings from Ace Attorney became even heavier.
Nihilism a „lighter“ topic 😂
Small point of contention regarding the Lana Skye case - she wasn't being gaslit by the *system*, she was tricked into lying to protect someone else.
I do get your point, but that was perhaps the one *really really* bad example of the issue at hand...
To your point about Lana admitting to her guilt, you're right. But this got me thinking about her behaviour as a cop herself. Gant was known to attract "extraordinary" evidence before SL-9. She admired him as her investigative partner, but she also admired the idea of justice and social harmony. Therefore, Lana accepted false convictions and "extraordinary" evidence as part of maintaining those ideals.
Sidenote: In a way, Lana was manipulated on an individual and systemic level, because Gant serves the story as both an individual and also as a representation of the system (being the Chief of Police).
@@jinrisul She was systematically manipulated, yes, absolutely, but entirely by Gant, not by the system itself; the system was itself manipulated by Gant to get her into position - all in all, Gant was pretty damn thorough... but not thorough enough, in the end.
I'm surprised you didn't bring up Persona 5 once. I know you must be a fan and understand how relevant it is
17:50 that's a very dramatic slip of the tongue ("crime" instead of "innocence"
Great video as always!
Thanks for not spoiling too much ace attorney stuff in this video, this makes me really want to play the games and I know they’re the kind of games that are particularly susceptible to being ruined by spoilers.
I enjoy your videos
What's not often talked about is how in the Ace Attorney games there's apparently a single degree of homicide. (Well two, but the other one is self-defense which is still a crime.) I wonder what Japanese homicide law is like.
Degrees of homicide are a largely american thing, other justice systems (especially with civil law) follow completely different categorizations.
funny how i see this video while playing apollo justice, the game all about reforming the justice system
what a masterpiece of a video! when will you release the undertale/deltarune psychology video? i'm really looking forward to it. i did watch your nintendo and sega videos, but don't let that control what you make or not, or do, i'm not your boss.
I'm so glad you enjoyed the video, Dao! I've had to rethink the script for the Undertale/Deltarune philosophy video several times now due to how complicated it is. It'll be ready to publish in about a month to a month in a half from now, and it will likely release as a two-parter.
@@moon-channel that's awesome, i'm really excited for that, also thank you for exposing easily proven conspiracies with big business such as blackrock and vanguard, the public need to know that they essentially own the larger business world. also palantir which i haven't looked into much yet, but is a big one too from what i've read (just watched the sega one before this video). have a nice day or whatever time it is where you are at!
But how can there be "social/societal harmony" if the actual perpetrator goes unknown and continues what someone else was tried and convicted for?
Oh! I've been waiting for someone to ask this!
That's a really good question, isn't it? Oddly enough, I haven't really come across an answer other than that cultural expectations keep wrongdoers from acting further -- they got away with it, and they're content with not making further trouble, knowing that if they do, they will be made an example of by the system.
@@moon-channel Surprising, since that seems to be the total opposite view in the West. Thank you for replying.
Guilty until proven innocent was an actual quote in the game too.
I just don't remember by whom.
Tremendous!
holy shit gladjonas.
I know I'm late to the party but damn finally someone who works within the legal system and doesn't hate phoenix wright
Every other lawyer I've seen hates the series, dismissing it as unrealistic and constantly missing the point it's trying to make
I hope I'm not oversimplifying it, but at times the Japanese legal system feels like something from the Cardassian legal system in Star Trek.
This channel is so underrated
As 3L law student who partially got into law school because of Ace Attorney, I really appreciate this video and all the videos you make. Keep repping the practice ⚖️
Nice video, great job!
7:00 it's inappropriate to directly compare Musashi's philosophy to that of western political philosophers -- the stuff Musashi espouses is very similar to western stoic philosophy. He's talking about how to live a virtuous life. The quotes are not at all in conflict with western ideas of individuality and justice.
He must be a prosecutor loool
Reminder that any video content format can be improved by including Phoenix Wright court proceedings.
One of my favorite examples of what you’re talking about in the game when it comes to the prosecutors. Is that in the third and final game of the original trilogy, phoenix actually proves his client was somewhere else. But the prosecutor will still prosecute him and convict him unless he find someone else for them to go after.
Most Indian states have low conviction rates compared to Western countries, despite supposedly being even more "collectivist" than Japan according to surveys. That being said, it was pretty scary to read Indian articles defining "conviction rate" as the percentage of guilty people who are successfully convicted, clearly assuming all accused people are guilty*, and most Indian media I've seen talking about it seems to think they need to increase their conviction rates to control crime (which might be true I guess). Supposedly India's legal system has a real problem with too many cases being filed for the system to handle, so that cases take a long time to come to court, and I guess this is probably related somehow to the low conviction rates. I think Pakistan's legal system is even more extreme in these regards than India's. I'm not sure, but I think Pakistan has much lower conviction rates even than India, as in actually less than 50% and much less for some crimes, and also it supposedly usually takes years for criminal cases in Pakistan to come to trial (while it's only about 6~8 months in India), meaning that just getting arrested and accused is practically a prison sentence on it's own.
Please don't treat me as some kind of authority on these matters. I'm American, not South Asian, and I just googled a few things while writing this and looked briefly at the hits to lightly fact-check and quantify things I remembered hearing/seeing before.
*unless it's some kind of estimate that's not a percent of all accused people, but there's no way they can actually know who is guilty independent of convictions, so any such estimate-based-statistic would be untrustworthy
My experience with South Asian law is very limited, but I'd be curious to learn more sometime! The few times I've encountered South Asian law in practice, specifically the legal systems of India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh, I was left with the impression that the legal systems of these countries are especially opaque and disorganized, perhaps by design.
I'm curious to read that Indian states might consider themselves more collectivist than, say, Japan! My impression has always been that South Asia is second in individualism only to Western nations -- this is by no means a bad thing, but it is something that I'd imagine has some cultural impact on how the legal system functions there.
@@moon-channel Actually, now that I look up the sort of common maps and score lists I'm talking about, I see that India and Japan are usually scored very similarly on the "collectivist" vs "individualist" spectrum, with both consistently scoring much more individualist than China, though I've seen Pakistan scored more collectivist, more between India and China.
I think it's important to realize that "collectivist" and "individualist" are pretty broad terms, though, and just because a society is "collectivist" or "individualist" in one way doesn't always mean it is in another way. For a possible example that probably confused my thinking, I remember something whatifalthist* said about how, HISTORICALLY, India has been perhaps the most brutally collectivist society in terms of the cast system and moral and political philosophy (though I have some doubts about political practice), but that this is counterbalanced by the focus of Indian religion and spirituality often being radically individualistic, particularly in the case of Buddhism, but not only in Buddhism (though I must add that Dharma is also usually labelled a "religious" concept, and is quite collectivist, as are group rituals). (An interesting story is that the 841-845 CE Huichang persecution of Buddhism in China was lead by Confucians who though Buddhism inspired people to go off and become monks, who were often beggars, and neglect their societal duties, like working to pay taxes, support their families and superiors, and provide services to society, as well as just having children, which Confucianism considers a duty in itself.)
*I know it's a bit terrible to be listening to him.
I see, and this all makes more sense to me, concerning these scales of collectivism vs. individualism. As you say, these concepts are quite complicated, and this video assumes, perhaps too much so, that the viewer has a relatively developed understanding of these concepts. It is one of my experimental earlier works, and there is a lot that needs improvement!
I am familiar with the TH-camr whatifalthist, though only vaguely. I find his understanding of history, politics, and geography to be, respectfully, dubious at best, and frustrating at worst. This take on India being "[historically] ... the most brutally collectivist society ..." is a headscratcher for so many reasons, but a TH-cam comment is hardly the place for that discussion!
Coincidentally, the next video I am working on is essentially an hour long history lesson on the religious history of Japan. It covers, amongst other things, the roots of theological concepts in Japanese religion that have their basis in China, the growth of Buddhism in Japan as a state actor, the development of Kokka Shinto, and more!
I hope you will watch that video, and find it interesting, H.H.!
@@moon-channel I'm actually a bit confused about conviction rate statistics. For example, When I looked it up, I saw sources claiming the US federal criminal courts have a 90% conviction rate, but then I also saw a pie graph saying 90% plead guilty and that only a small fraction (maybe 10%) of those who plead innocent were actually convicted, and then state criminal courts, which I think are the main ones, have totally different numbers, which I think I saw are usually lower.
I guess I understabd how there are all different types of statistics people take, and I'm just saying comment might have mixed and matched them.
@@Mr.Nichanin america regular ppl usually say that you are done if the feds pick you up so that is a different thing altogether.
I would love to hear your take on judgment - Lost Judgment
Games that feel like they are so serious and yet I can't believe they are accurate
Many non-European cultures are like this. ExUSSR judicial system as well as Chinese. It's just "presumption of guiltiness" instead of "presumption of innocence". Despite many 'imported' western concepts gaining de jure status and recognition.
Here in Canada it is said that our legal system is designed upon the principle that we would rather let 10 guilty people go free than to wrongfully convict 1 person. Although that statement is hyperbole the notion holds true. Canada has statistically fewer appeals of wrongful conviction proportionate to that of the US or UK, despite the fact that the procurement of such appeals are suposedly easier in Canada than the other 2 countries mentioned. A criminal record is a heavy burden to carry, so it's important to ensure that beyond a reasonable doubt that the convicted is indeed guilty. Additionally, in many western societies there is a growing demand for judicial reform toward the concept of restorative justice, including offering rehabilitation as a first course of action in stead of dealing out prison sentences. However there are many other forms of restorative justice such as that practiced by indigenous North American cultures prior to contact with Europeans.
is criminal law your line of work? or you deal with inmates and stuff?
Neither. I learned all this from my social worker who got his start working with inmates, and who has kept up to date on matters related to the crimanal justice system here in Canada. His inspiration for starting his mindfulness practice was that in his time working with inmates he directly observed a gross overrepresentation of people with mental health issues in the criminal justice system, most of which who wouldn't have ended up there if they had access to psyciatric help and proper therapy.@@bzipoli
Ironically, in my country we often have the opposite problem instead.
If your guilt cannot be proven, not only beyond a reasonable doubt, but beyond _any_ doubt, the likelihood of the case being thrown out is honestly too high.
In my hometown, a male patient confessed to a r*pe of another female patient on the same floor (we don't have the same confession culture here). The case was thrown out due to "insufficient evidence", which turned out to be a lack of funds to actually process the evidence and fund the investigation.
All types of abuse cases are _notorious_ for being thrown out, so nobody reports them.
For this reason, I also think some criminals actually commit more assaults. In fact, I knew someone who was charged, but got off the hook, and he did that shit.... He drugged his (ex)gf and r*ped her. That's his MO, and he has done it to *at least* 3 people. He knows he can get away with it, so I don't doubt that he has done that disgusting crime several times over.
Sadly, there is (understandably) no way to anonymously report anyone, even when you know they're committing heinous crimes.
What country do you live in?
What country was that?
What is the country so we don't visit.
oh yeah, over here confessions don't mean conviction. statements to the police usually means jacksh!t, only the ones in court will matter for the trial. you can confess to the police, doesn't matter. it's literally in the law. you can confess on trial (with your proper lwayer and all), and the judge can't convict you based solely on the confession, it's unlawful
but this doesn't work for jury trials (which are on a very limited number of crimes). if you confess on trial, the jury can convict you and thats that
10:01 yay we are world renowned
oof to that not being up yet (If it is I havent seen it yet and the thumbnails dont hint to it. I’m marathoning this channel now)
The Undertale/Deltarune video is in semi-permanent "eventually" status, if that's what your referencing, Rye! :)
I'll likely end up making it not this upcoming video, nor the one after that, but after two videos from now. (1 non-legal, 1 legal, then Undertale/Deltarune).
@@moon-channel Cool, Thanks for responding! I hope people have been treating you okay. Best of wishes to all of you!
not gonna spoil it but ghost trick's main story also ends up being a pretty solid look into japanese police stuff... especially given how 3 of the main cast are policemen themselves...
not to mention ace attorney investigations 2, which is one of my faves of all time.. i dont think i could summarize it here but to give you an idea, edgeworth actually gives up his badge for a while because he's so disillusioned with the legal system
Good video that I'll be sharing around; my only critique would be the use of the term "social justice" which, at least in the west, isn't used as a counter to 'social harmony' - if anything, they're on the same side of the coin (group coercian). I just kept hearing it being used over and over throughout the video and it was getting a little offputting towards the end
Regardless, the actual meat of the video was fantastic, and appreciated 👍
I'm sorry but that such a GOOD video, that makes you think, is narrated by such a masculine and sexy voice is... a gift. I love how you narrate, Sir. Gosh.
Why is the ace attorney music rick rolling me?
Great video but your sound recording is a bit sharp at times
This is an older video, done as an experiment, and preserved for archival purposes: it uses only raw recording, without editing.
I've been slowly working on improving the sound quality since then!
@@moon-channel i have binged a lot of your newer videos before this so it was no slight against your channel at all
i just like to speak my mind as a stream of consciousness sometimes, and it helps the algorythm to recognize that your videos are good, cheers
This is a good video, but in order to make the point more strongly you need some more supporting evidence. To that, I'd highly recommend the Judgement/Judge Eyes games by SEGA's Ryu Ga Gotoku studio. They star a former defense lawyer turned private eye whose legal career got off to a strong start when he successfully defended a client and got them found innocent, only to get cut short when once innocent the client immediately (apparently) kills his girlfriend. A lot of the essence of the Japanese legal system is presented in these games again from a defense attorney's perspective, and much more (though not entirely, as there's a ton of allowance and leeway given 'cause video game) realistically than the Phoenix Wright games.
Plus, in addition to a lot of the stuff you do in the Ace Attorney games like examining crime scenes and presenting evidence, you also get into street fights since it's essentially a Yakuza series spin-off, with the first being set in that series' famous Kamurocho district, so the action keeps the plot moving throughout. But the games definitely know they owe a huge debt to Phoenix Wright as well, there's even a sub story (basically a side quest) that parodies a Phoenix Wright case, albeit with much lower stakes (it's a mock trial solving the mystery of who ate a cake in an office fridge!)
very cool :)))
Reminds of the movie "Soredemo boku wa Yattenai".
The Annual Review of Criminology article "Plea Bargaining, Conviction Without Trial, and the Global Administratization of Criminal Convictions" shows that conviction rates are very high all over Europe and the USA (generally >90%) and that this is mostly due to people confessing to crimes they may not have done to get a plea bargain.
The Annual review article on wrongful conviction suggests this is a major cause of that problem.
As such, I don't think Japan is as "special" as you suggest.
Meanwhile, in my country, the prosecutors are the first line to dismiss any case.
Any case that goes to court means that has at least some merit to be persecuted.
8:41
I think Edgey's case is a little different. Since that was a case of a warped childhood memory. He literally thought he did kill his father with a gun.
And well... he didn't. But he didn't know that. Everyone was trapped in an elevator for a few hours. He was half passed out due to a lack of oxygen (though that plot thread is kinda dubious... why would an elevator be an airtight lock?) He threw a gun in a dark room, it goes off somehow, he hears a blood curdling scream. And when he wakes up, he finds out his father died.
I think in that situation, a lot of people, even westerners would feel the same way.
(hope you don’t mind me replying six months later) I think what he’s talking about does apply more straightforwardly to Edgeworth in the Robert Hammond case, despite the visual example being used. What stood out to me in that case was how vague Edgeworth’s account of events was at the time of the murder, so much so that he was only confirming the details after Phoenix had already deduced them (like the number of gunshots he heard or whether he even knew what the victim looked like before meeting him. those would have been really useful BEFORE trial). Even the process of getting him to tell Phoenix that “I did not kill Robert Hammond” was like pulling teeth, and his attitude after that was essentially “it doesn’t matter, the prosecutor is von Karma so I must be guilty of at least something”. Of course that’s getting into whether Edgeworth was being gaslit by the legal system or an individual in von Karma, but they’re not that separate in this context, I think.
I always find it funny that the Ace attorney games happen in "America". 😂
That's because the goal of the games is to prove more people innocent than guilty(mostly), which is the opposite of what happens in real-life in Japan. Placing the scenario in (north) America makes the premise more plausible.
Really really great video, I wanna see the Undertale/Deltarune one so bad!!!
Out of curiosity, what is the conviction rate in the US?
(Calculated the same as the 99% figure for Japan, of course)
Doesn't make sense to use the same system. In japan you are guilty if you are the first suspect, in the US you are guilty if not you don't have enough money for the lawyer. Both are 99.9% on those criteria.
90 percent for the feds but states are waaaay lower.
well, i am a japanese but there is no way japanese people think those behaviors in the games are remotely real. we are not fool.
I admit that the 99.9% conviction rate shocked me when I heard it. However, like you mentioned in your video, many western legal systems have similar problems. You said it was outside the scope of this video, so I looked it up. I knew there were problems with a high number of guilty plea deals, but the numbers shocked me.
For the unfamiliar readers at home, in the USA, most cases end in plea deals. How many? Pew Research found that only 0.04% of all federal criminal cases that went to trial were acquitted. (About 8.2% of cases were dismissed before going to trial.) The VAST majority took a plea deal to plead guilty. Defendants, looking at those statistics, seem to decide it's better to take the deal and spend fewer years in prison than more should the case fail to be dismissed, go to trial with those conviction rates, and receive harsher sentences, regardless if they actually committed the crime. There's also the difference in severity in plea deals offered to white vs nonwhite defendents.
Yeah. This is not just a Japan Problem.
In Ace Attorney games, you spend a good chunk of your time convincing your clients "please do NOT plead guilty". It used to baffle me, but less so now. Any hypothetical American version criticizing the American justice system would probably have to feature that, too.
www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/14/fewer-than-1-of-defendants-in-federal-criminal-cases-were-acquitted-in-2022/
Playing the first Sega Judgment game can teach you other stuffs
I want to thank the YT content creator Legal Eagle for introducing me to Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney.
This young man, an American lawyer, suddenly decided to make more content for his channel by searching the world for cartoons about lawyers.
I really enjoy. Legal Eagle videos
I haven't played any of the Ace Attorney games but I suspect if I had I might be a bit annoyed that the localizers moved the setting from Japan to the US.
I still want that video about Undertale and nihilism.
It's been a very challenging video and script to work on, but when it does come out, I think it will be fantastic. It's currently #3 in the release schedule, so expect it... in a few weeks! Maybe!
@@moon-channel I'm looking forward to it! Happy it wasn't scrapped.
In Genshin Impact there is a trial in the style of this game, however something seemed strange to me in this part, because in my opinion they were considered guilty until their innocence was proven. I thought it was because it was in a fantasy game, but after watching this video I think it's the same thing.
The Constitution of Japan states, unusually clearly:
"No person shall be compelled to testify against himself. Confession made under compulsion, torture or threat, or after prolonged arrest or detention shall not be admitted in evidence. No person shall be convicted or punished in cases where the only proof against him is his own confession."
I'm not an expert in the Japanese legal system but it is my understanding, from different sources, that this (as well as several other articles of the Constitution) is routinely ignored by courts of law, and people are routinely convicted, even to the harshest possible penalties, based solely on their confession and nothing else.
I don't know what role the Constitution of Japan plays in the Japanese legal system, but apparently it's not a very prominent one.
To be fair to the Lana Skye example, she was being blackmailed into confessing her guilt. That ones a bit different to the Edgeworth example. She's knowingly taking the fall for someone else, not being like "well I've been arrested it must have been me even though I know it wasn't me"
What is the music that starts at 3:30?
"Turnabout Sisters" from the Ace Attorney games.
Demon killer seems pretty based.
This seems entwined with a Japanese trope that drives me crazy. A character will be tricked by some bad actor into making some error, or might be blamed for some event that they were a part of but not responsible for, and is then scapegoated by others instead of the actual culprit.
There's a number of examples I could pull, but one I encountered recently was in the movie Drifting Home. In it, a bunch of school kids go exploring an apartment complex that's set to be demolished soon, and find that the apartment building has been teleported out to sea, with them in it. One of the girls from the group has experienced the phenomenon before, but doesn't know why or how it works. The other characters immediately take this as the perfect opportunity to scapegoat and blame her for everything. She stresses repeatedly she doesn't know what's happening or how it works, but the other characters assume that because she's seen this before, that because she has prior knowledge, it must mean she's guilty and the sole to blame for this happening. Instead of trying to investigate the phenomena and find out who the real culprit is, they're satisfied with just yelling at her the whole movie. And the girl at some point starts acting like it's her fault too, apologizing for this happening to them, even though she had absolutely nothing to do with it. Watching it makes you want to tear your hair out. Even knowing this trope's ties to Japan's legal system, it always reeks of extremely convoluted writing, and I hate that it's so common.
i always wondered if, being a defense attorney, ur goal can ever be to fight for the truth like phoenix does. i told my boyfriend i might become a lawyer because of ace attorney (mostly joking) and he said that if u went into law with the goal to fight for the truth, then no clients would hire u. he said that u will inevitably have to defend guilty people even if u know they’re guilty.. of course everyone is entitled to due process, but it just made me sad in a way because isn’t being a defense attorney or a prosecutor about finding the truth of the matter even if the truth means u “lose”? why should lawyers have to fight for the death even if it’s incredibly obvious that they’re guilty? like imagine being the person who has to defend a pedophile or a murderer who is 100% guilty. i realized that in real life as a lawyer u can’t always just have innocent clients and that it’s impossible to be successful by only accepting clients u believe in
Your job as a defense lawyer isn't always to prove someone entirely innocent: it might be to prevent someone from being punished harder than they deserve, for example.
We also often don't really know who is, or is not, innocent, and what we hear and what our impressions are can become very different once all the facts are made clear.
You might take in a client you truly believe is guilty, only to discover that there was police tampering, or improper handling of evidence, or what have you -- every defense lawyer has a story like that.
You can also be a "defense" lawyer outside of the scope of criminal law, defending all kinds of people in all kinds of legal situations. That you would consider being a defense lawyer at all speaks to a compassionate heart, and God only knows, we could use a few more compassionate people in this profession.
bruh it’s DS9 Cardassia
I can't imagine a social stability built on the arrest of innocents is one that lasts very long. There's only so many lambs you can sacrifice before the bones start to pile up. The west itself is beginning to see it's own faults in that regard (I'd wager if you're part of a minoritary group, you've _been_ seeing it for a while...)
I'm usually open to social differences but this just seems bad, plain and simple... I hope change comes, preferably sooner rather than later.
i thought we were at California
The reason people believed they did it was NOT because of any value system.
It is because the average person compounds good or evil with desirable or disposable.
All to make life simple and easy to process by fusing similar topics.
That value you talked about only effected them seeing the world as more desirable.
So is being a Japanese defense attorney mostly just trying to negotiate settlements down? If the system is so harsh seems like there’s not much hope for them to begin with