Great episode, and I think it would pair really well with The Abolition of Man by C.S. Lewis for anyone interested in more. You guys touched on the obsession with IQ, but I think perhaps a bigger issue in our society is an obsession with "being educated," without any conception of what success in education means. It relates to that glorification of the expert you noted. It's becoming increasingly common that somebody says they went to an ivy league school, and that is supposed to mean they're one of our societal "experts," but they lack basic critical thinking skills and cannot dissect and digest arguments, either other people's or even their own ideas. I think this is particularly pronounced in America because of our education system (something I'm really passionate about and have a lot to say on haha). Suffice it to say that "successful" education used to consist primarily two things - 1. equipping students with the capacity (and desire) to learn anything so they were self-directed, life-long learners, and 2. training them in virtues necessary and desirable in healthy, "ascending" citizenry. I think the first goal kind of relates to what you guys touched on with George Washington or great men of history maybe not being smart in the way we count intelligence today, or what I meant by us being obsessed with regulated levels of education. Classic example is Abraham Lincoln who couldn't go to law school, so he read Euclid's geometry. He read this not for the content or to fulfill some course requirement to get a certificate or degree, but because he saw that geometry was founded on logic and proofs of your reasoning. If he wanted to be a logical lawyer able to prove his arguments, he could study a different discipline and apply that to his own field. Even to see that alternate path to his goals required self-direction and critical thinking. But I don't think he could succeed in that these days where we're so obsessed with going through the "approved channels." The second goal relates to what Necktie Salvage touched on with the de-spiritualization of everything. Even if you're not a Christian or particularly religious, it's such a loss to neglect or even deny man's moral capacity and responsibility. And even for Christian's you understand that while all men might not be righteous, you at least desire that they be virtuous, that they act with temperance, fortitude, integrity, charity, humility, reverence, and prudence. Pursuing and encouraging these virtues benefits not only the individual but the community as a whole. Phew! Clearly a very thought-provoking episode for me haha!
You must be from Kansas City with a Boulevard Brewing sign. Great conversation for an amazingly underrated movie. Our society today feels less like Gattaca, and more like Arrival … everything is just one second away from things falling to pieces.
Cold and Antiseptic is the feeling of the Movie's vision of the future. History to be determined by DNA testing, remove as many variables as possible. Murder is a common every day variable that the movie has trouble coping with.
Interesting discussion, certainly not what I was expecting but I definitely enjoyed it. I can't say I necessarily agree with everything but it offers up some different perspectives and ideas I hadn't necessarily thought of before. I will say the aesthetics discussion is spot on though. Congrats on making it to 1K as well, sir.
For anyone who wants their baby to be blond, blue-eyed and intelligent, ever heard of Jeffrey Dahmer? He was blond, blue-eyed and VERY intelligent which is how he was able to elude the authorities for so long.
t's difficult to take in his opinions because he isn't dealing with obvious problems as he goes. It leads me to believe that he does not see the issues, and that in turn leads me to believe that he doesn't recognize the harm in pushing these ideas forward. 1. Aesthetics are subjective. A world wherein aesthetics are unified is one wherein one aesthetic has "won". Diversity of the most important kind (mental/spiritual) is therefore lost. 2. The direction "forward" must be justified in part by aesthetics, and so the unification of directionality implies a death of a great many of several kinds of people. It's not at all clear that the direction given in Gattaca is the greatest "forward" possible, but this idea is not dealt with at all. 3. Those seduced by these aesthetics unquestioningly are vulnerable to the kinds of seduction of the so-called rationalism or positivism emerging from the Enlightenment. These ideas are seductive as hell, and for good reason. The hell of war seems to accompany its rise. Therefore our "ascent" into rational behavior that seeks to see the world as made of interlocking components must be accompanied by its sister (mother), the world wherein all things are seen as part of a whole which is kept within nested encompassing structures. It should be clear here that these points of view are identical, but errors of analysis are made when one side is taken to be more true than the other.
Could you kindly provide tips for reading more on the points you make, particularly point number 3 and the final paragraph. Also, what do you think of Gattaca?
Great episode, and I think it would pair really well with The Abolition of Man by C.S. Lewis for anyone interested in more.
You guys touched on the obsession with IQ, but I think perhaps a bigger issue in our society is an obsession with "being educated," without any conception of what success in education means. It relates to that glorification of the expert you noted. It's becoming increasingly common that somebody says they went to an ivy league school, and that is supposed to mean they're one of our societal "experts," but they lack basic critical thinking skills and cannot dissect and digest arguments, either other people's or even their own ideas.
I think this is particularly pronounced in America because of our education system (something I'm really passionate about and have a lot to say on haha). Suffice it to say that "successful" education used to consist primarily two things - 1. equipping students with the capacity (and desire) to learn anything so they were self-directed, life-long learners, and 2. training them in virtues necessary and desirable in healthy, "ascending" citizenry.
I think the first goal kind of relates to what you guys touched on with George Washington or great men of history maybe not being smart in the way we count intelligence today, or what I meant by us being obsessed with regulated levels of education. Classic example is Abraham Lincoln who couldn't go to law school, so he read Euclid's geometry. He read this not for the content or to fulfill some course requirement to get a certificate or degree, but because he saw that geometry was founded on logic and proofs of your reasoning. If he wanted to be a logical lawyer able to prove his arguments, he could study a different discipline and apply that to his own field. Even to see that alternate path to his goals required self-direction and critical thinking. But I don't think he could succeed in that these days where we're so obsessed with going through the "approved channels."
The second goal relates to what Necktie Salvage touched on with the de-spiritualization of everything. Even if you're not a Christian or particularly religious, it's such a loss to neglect or even deny man's moral capacity and responsibility. And even for Christian's you understand that while all men might not be righteous, you at least desire that they be virtuous, that they act with temperance, fortitude, integrity, charity, humility, reverence, and prudence. Pursuing and encouraging these virtues benefits not only the individual but the community as a whole.
Phew! Clearly a very thought-provoking episode for me haha!
You must be from Kansas City with a Boulevard Brewing sign.
Great conversation for an amazingly underrated movie. Our society today feels less like Gattaca, and more like Arrival … everything is just one second away from things falling to pieces.
Midwest- but close to KC- great old sign, thanks for watching
Congrats on the 1k subs, George! Well deserved - don't forget us when you hit 1 million!!
Really appreciate that!
Cold and Antiseptic is the feeling of the Movie's vision of the future. History to be determined by DNA testing, remove as many variables as possible. Murder is a common every day variable that the movie has trouble coping with.
Interesting discussion, certainly not what I was expecting but I definitely enjoyed it. I can't say I necessarily agree with everything but it offers up some different perspectives and ideas I hadn't necessarily thought of before. I will say the aesthetics discussion is spot on though. Congrats on making it to 1K as well, sir.
Thank you very much!
Just heard your theme song in the grocery store hahah Great to come home to another video!
They were playing the old grind house trailer theme in the grocery store? Thanks for watching!
Tread Carefully ! I can hear " Necktie Savage " being called a backdoor Eugenics defender.
Suited & Booted, we see you.+1
For anyone who wants their baby to be blond, blue-eyed and intelligent, ever heard of Jeffrey Dahmer? He was blond, blue-eyed and VERY intelligent which is how he was able to elude the authorities for so long.
I think Necktie is more interested in the style and aesthetic of the Gattaca world than he was the aryan nature of it.
t's difficult to take in his opinions because he isn't dealing with obvious problems as he goes. It leads me to believe that he does not see the issues, and that in turn leads me to believe that he doesn't recognize the harm in pushing these ideas forward.
1. Aesthetics are subjective. A world wherein aesthetics are unified is one wherein one aesthetic has "won". Diversity of the most important kind (mental/spiritual) is therefore lost.
2. The direction "forward" must be justified in part by aesthetics, and so the unification of directionality implies a death of a great many of several kinds of people. It's not at all clear that the direction given in Gattaca is the greatest "forward" possible, but this idea is not dealt with at all.
3. Those seduced by these aesthetics unquestioningly are vulnerable to the kinds of seduction of the so-called rationalism or positivism emerging from the Enlightenment. These ideas are seductive as hell, and for good reason. The hell of war seems to accompany its rise.
Therefore our "ascent" into rational behavior that seeks to see the world as made of interlocking components must be accompanied by its sister (mother), the world wherein all things are seen as part of a whole which is kept within nested encompassing structures. It should be clear here that these points of view are identical, but errors of analysis are made when one side is taken to be more true than the other.
Could you kindly provide tips for reading more on the points you make, particularly point number 3 and the final paragraph.
Also, what do you think of Gattaca?
Communism brings the spirit of man down.
Super interesting conversation.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks!
Beautiful analysis.
God has a plan for our lives. Best not to meddle.