This is a fight I've been wanting to discuss for some time and I'm quite proud of this one, so settle in, grab a drink, and I really hope you enjoy it! What did you think of Ichigo vs Ginjo, their final battle? Was it a good ending to The Lost Agent Arc? Did you like Ichigo's new Bankai? Let me know!
I personally LOVED the Lost Agent Arc, and at times found myself wishing for more. It gave us a side of Bleach that we rarely saw. As in, the supernatural side of things on Earth itself, through the lense of people that actually live there, instead of the Soul Reapers, who oftentimes are fish out of water when it comes to the World of the Living.
Easily one of the best fights in the series, and in IMO the best arc as well. Also shoutouts to the anime adaptation, I think It's the best adapted arc at least in the original anime.
When Ichigo first gets his powers back and is like "That wasn't Getsuga, I was just swinging my sword" is legit one of my favorite moments in the series
When I first watched this season, seeing Ichigo break down literally gave me shivers. I thought he was gonna be lost for good but it was all just a trick.
The fact that everyone in the gotei 13 poured some of their energy into that reietsu blade is really touching. Plus, It was about time they paid Ichigo back for all the stuff he did.
If it wasn't for ichigo soul society would have been destroyed by either aizen or yhwach. With ichigo not around soul society would have fallen at aizens hand.
I adore the Lost Agent Arc. It’s my favorite Bleach arc precisely because Ginjo and Tsukishima *broke* Ichigo in a way no one else could do with all their amazing powers and raw strength.
I still find it crazy that they sent Hitsuguya, Kenpachi, Byakuya, Renji, Ikkaku and Rukia to oversee the fight and potentially kill Ichigo. Of all the Shinigami who have had experience with Ichigo, every one they sent would be least inclined to do harm to Ichigo, with perhaps an exception to Kenpachi. He has helped them all and changed them most of all
It honestly felt to me like some weird loyalty test. Or perhaps the reasoning that it was those who best know and respect Ichigo that could best judge if they would need to kill him.
@@TheDanTheDan15When Ichigo learned about Gingo and what happened, after gaining his powers back, there was a chance he would turn against Soul Society. In the case when that chance actually takes place, all present were ordered to take action, possibly killing him. But Kenpachi, Rukia and Byakuya would never do it. I think they were there to judge him. Ken would maybe fight him just to test his powers, but would immediately withdraw if ordered to kill. Byakuya even admits to Tsukishima, that even his master, his family and the closest person growing up is not as important for him as Ichigo. Hitsugaya wouldn’t kill him, but he for sure would fight him and freeze him in ice, if he truly became and enemy. He wouldn’t want it, but he knows what duty is. Really, out of all the people there I’m unsure of only what Renji would do. This means he’s a much more complex character, that we thought…
Something I love about the end is Yama actually mentally preparing to fight Ichigo. Like, you know it wouldn't just be a one shot kill. He'd actually have to full on fight him.
Maybe, but I feel like first form of yamas bankai would wash that version of ichigo. If Yama was going all out I doubt ichigo would last long at that stage of the story. Now if we're talking tybwa ichigo with his true shikai? That's a very different story
I always loved how cinematic this fight was in the anime. Ginjo is the most human of the main Bleach antagonists, and the clear parallels between him and Ichigo adds a tragic edge to the fact that he was the first human Ichigo killed in the story. Ichigo being able to see that he could have ended up like Ginjo and still accepting his role as a Substitute Soul Reaper, while also ensuring that Ginjo was given a chance at a new life, shows the kind of good person Ichigo truly is.
It's also likely that Ginjo's death also had an effect on Ichigo. When Ichigo returns to Soul Society during Wandenreich's first invasion and witnesses the death and destruction caused by Yhwach and his army, he seems really bloodthirsty and willing to go for the kill immediately. I guess killing Ginjo changed Ichigo's personality in a similar manner to how Kyouraku in TYBW seems a lot colder and more ruthless than before.
Kyoraku became colder because Yamamoto who was like a protective net for him wasn't there anymore and Ichigo pretty much just embraced his more ruthless side he always had as we see from true zangetsu
@@tolispsaltis6860yeah same as IRL, when they fired my boss and put me in his position amid a tough situation I had to become an evil bloodthirsty dude quickly
Ichigo didn't change. Even fighting Sternritter he didn't want to go for the kill. He treated them the exact same way he treated the Arrancar, as living beings with conscious and lives that should be respected. With Ginjo he knew he was too far gone, they were clashing blades and Ichigo knew his feelings and intentions.
Ichigo always ‘goes for the kill’. Or at the very least, he doesn’t fight with the specific intention to spare an opponent unless there’s a clear power gap in his favor. It’s an ‘if he dies he dies, if not he doesn’t’ fighting style and mentality. When Urahara first was teaching Ichigo, he taught him to swing his blade to kill. We see he didn’t do this against Jidanbo (power gap) but he did against Ikkaku, Renji and Kenpachi, who all would’ve died if they didn’t get medical attention. Then against the Lieutenants he didn’t fight to kill (power gap) but he did use his strongest moves (move) against Byakuya Tsukishima is the first person Ichigo resolved to kill out of anger and he opted to kill Ginjo to ‘save’ him from himself
It could also be possible that he picked up that lethality on the first move to be something he learned to do because of his battle with Aizen when faced against a top tier threat he knows is going to be so powerful there isn't room to think, that the first attack must be the killing blow against an enemy like Yhwach or Aizen. Itchigo didnt do that with Ginjo, or he'd have activated bankai immediately. The difference was in threat level.
A really intuitive way they could have displayed the temptation to side or at least empathize with Ginjo would have been through one of the Inner Zanpakuto, either White or Old Man Zangetsu chafing at the prospect of being deceived and placed under surveillance. Would have given the two spirits some extra screen time too.
The Lost Agent Arc had an amazing ending, Ichigo vs Ginjo is one of my favourite fights. I still wish we would have gotten more info on Ginjo's past in the canon manga
Ima gonna ask u with our being and asshole what exactly did u like about that fight cuz in my opinion that fight wasn't a fight at all the fight with him ans ginjo lasted like 10 seconds before he got slaughter by ichigo the build up I van understand but to say is ur favorite fight idk dude had ichigos power and still lost horribly
Ichigo's look down at the fallen Ginjo is so good, reminds me of Goku's pained expression when he "killed" Frieza back in Namek. There's not a sense of victory, triumph and even rage, just...sadness and resignation over the fact that to fight was the only answer. All conveyed with a single look.
I think this arc needed 2-3 flashbacks. One to show the fallout between Ginjo and the soul society or Ukitake. Another to show Ginjo meeting Tsukishima and maybe him forming Xcution. Also, possibly a missed opportunity to give Ukitake a real fight.
The emotional impact before the Fight was extremly intense. Ichigo breaking down crying, everyone turned against him, powerless again and betrayed by the people he thought would help him. And then you have this absolut banger of a fight. I dont quite this arc for the most part, but the end was damm good.
Great video as always!! I think you hit every point that makes this battle such a powerful moment despite how little of the series it takes up, Kubo really put a lot of care into it. I will say I think the pathos the CFYOW info adds to Ginjo’s reveal of the Pass’s true purpose is incredible. The thing Ginjo omitted-that his friends were ended for no apparent reason by (as he is made to believe, at least) the Court Guards-is also probably the thing that might have turned Ichigo around definitively, that being that his own loved ones could meet the same fate. So it makes it read like some part of Ginjo really didn’t want Ichigo to either start down his own dark path, or to follow Ginjo down his, knowing where it would lead. So he buried that aspect. (I think that one look he gives Ichigo after he says he’s going to protect his loved ones by fighting Ginjo, then also conveys the irony that those loved ones include Shinigami who collectively took his own from him.) And then it’s from Ichigo’s side, too. To hear the story he was told about the Pass, and then as he and Ginjo are fighting, with Ichigo now able to read Ginjo’s emotions/intentions/etc for the first time without Book of the End interfering, to be faced with this overwhelming desperation that just doesn’t match up to the supposed explanation. Not necessarily figuring the truth out just from that-but understanding the position Ginjo is in and there being no end in sight to that pain, like you said a conclusion really becomes an act of mercy. And better at his hands as someone who understands Ginjo, than at the hands of the Shinigami who wouldn’t bother trying to.
I love this fight between ginjo vs Ichigo in the anime. Especially the line ginjo says that look in your eyes as if your trying to see thing from my perspective and put yorself in my shoes
Honestly I wish Ichigo had started learning and using more techniques here. Even just stuff like Cero, or creating the Fullbring shield (maybe even making them into explosive shurikens?), or hell, even some Kido or more specialised Arrancar techniques
Oddly enough, I could've seen Soi Fon being one of the people being against killing Ichigo for two reasons. Both for her own personal reasons, but also because she wouldn't want Yoruichi to be sad or for her to leave again.
I think it would be for a different reason. Deep down she actually respects Ichigo and appreciates what he has done. She wouldn’t be against giving him a chance to make a decision.
people: Kubo just makes repetitive arcs Mr Kubo: makes something completely different people: stupid arc it doesnt resemble Bleach me: MAKE YOUR DAMN MIND PEASANTS and I love every arc of Bleach! ❤
Lost Agent is madly underrated. Tsukishima and Ginjo had Ichigo broken and crying harder than anyone else ever did. Seeing Ichigo finally fight back and steamroll with his full strength was SO satisfying.
I had a whole idea about who dissented and why to eliminating both substitutes, but realized they probably made that decision of killing them long before Ichigo was ever in the picture. My thought is that they probably made that plan in the Turn Back The Pendulum era, and only sent the captains that they did because they were more intimately familiar with Ichigo and his abilities than anyone else in the current Gotei.
In regards to the soul society’s betrayal of Ichigo I guess I always just kinda figured the gotei 13 had very little doubt that Ichigo would side with them in the end. Yamamoto himself gives some of his power to restore Ichigo. Of course it IS their responsibility to prepare for every eventuality as Urahara often does and so were prepared to take on Ichigo if need be but again I really feel they probably saw that as an almost impossible outcome considering everything they went through together against Aizen and the bonds Ichigo had forged with Rukia, Renji and others.
Other than Ichigo losing his faith in being able to make a difference during the aizen fight, this ginjo battle really hits the hardest throughout the entire show
Hopefully they include CFYOW into the anime so we have some closure about Ginjo being betrayed by Soul Society, thanks to Tokinada and his evil schemes.
This is one of my favorite fights with two of my favorite characters. Ichigo was just too powerful after absorbing that blade of reiatsu. Really wanted to see more of Ginjo. His Bankai is one of the coolest designs in the series.
Every time I rewatch this fight I just think how amazing the anime looked at this point. It rivals the TYBW anime in my opinion. It was a much more emotional then physical fight in my opinion. Sometimes I wish Gingo and the fullbringers left for soul soceity before Ichigo got his powers back to really elevate the stakes of the lost agent arc. Gingo finds Ukitake drinking tea and while fighting they discuss Gingo’s past while the other lieutenants deal with the fullbringers terrozing Soul soceity, kinda like soul soceity arc where Ichigo and the gang are seen as invaders.
This fight is my absolute favorite in Bleach, and honestly one of my favorite fights in all of anime as well, it really is awesome and thee Last Agent arc is my favorite arc in Bleach.
Thank you...I enjoyed the depth of your video here. Well done as always. I look forward to your videos every week. Your dedication is easy to notice & I hope you & yours are doing well, resting easy. All the best! Also, I started watching Bleach in entirety in 2018 when I was sick for a month, I had seen it back in the early 2010's, learned who Rie Fu was...but I didn't get involved until 2018 with both Anime & Manga. Only Rumiko ranks higher than Kubo in my books, but it really isn't a competition. Rumiko got me into Anime & Manga from Japan back in 2006. I remember getting to this arc & found it to be enthralling, glad Ginjo found some redemption...I look forward to the Cour 3 reaction videos from you & James, as you both offer something different but both together heighten the experience. Again, All the best! I hope you stay in the books & keep creatively reading & sharing, teaching & helping us understand the world of Bleach...Take good care :)
I really would've liked to see Kubo play around with the thoughts of the Gotei members on if they could defeat Ichigo or not. Personally, I think most of them would have worries since he did defeat Aizen. And in the TYBW, we see Full-Bring Ichigo is no joke since he one shots Shaz Domino
I think that anyone who makes it to the level of captain goes into battles without thinking of winning or losing. They fight knowing they're usually stronger, but never staying back even when they can't win.
I remember when Ichigo got his powers back I always wondered of his New Shikai was just the Shikai if his "Dangai" Form. I couldn't wait till he released Bankai just to see that Iconic form again .😂
This was a good arc, I really hope they improve some things towards the end of the TYBW Arc, it has so much potential to be the best arc now that he isn't being rushed and is in better health
Aside from the amazing writing and narrative storytelling through battle this fight has, in the anime, this is one of the most well animated and choreographed fights in the entire series, and that’s including Bleach’s current TYBW anime adaption. There was a certain fluidity and dynamic sense of action in the combat and swordplay of the latter end of the Bleach anime with the Zanpakuto Rebellion, Regai, and Fullbring Arc that isn’t replicated even in the TYBW’s first 2 Cours, and Ichigo vs Ginjo, especially the Bankai portion of the fight, is one of those examples
You could always see ginjo watching him with intent to get him to his side like the sidious tried with Luke he technically never was wrong about his ideals Ginjo had a negative vibe art
Just for the fact that we get two of Ichigo's best designs in this fight alone makes it one of the best. Fullbring bankai will always be my favourite of every single design in the series, barring any possible future ones.
If Ichigo kills another human, does that mean he'll go to hell when he dies? Or if you kill someone as a shinigami, does that negate the "killing" of a human rule? Based on what we now know about Captain level shinigamis, Ichigo is destined for hell anyways when he dies along with all his friends.
Grown up is essentially accurate- it really feels like a natural evolution of Ichigo's Bankai The TYBA version felt like a bastardized mutation that truly regressed Ichigo’s progress to the point his Bankai’s ultimate form is just his Shikai by some foreshadowed element via Yhwach's vision without elaboration of what it exactly means In the case of the latter, given how the Royal Guard was planning to throw Ichigo under the bus by turning him into a glorified battery, I wouldn’t put it past them to deliberately limit his true potential so he’s better as a tool.
@babytoshiro7014 honestly it's so hard to find anyone to talk about Manga like bleach with IRL so the thought of going through each arc with someone until the pattern breaks sounded fun. 🙃
I don't think CFYOW really ruins the mirror at all, it just points out that Ginjo is not the substitute soul reaper Ichigo is. He's willing to get down and dirty and Ichigo just isn't. No matter what you do to Ichigo he's not going to stoop down to that level.
fantastic video tommo. always thought the lost agent arc had one of the best endings in the series and love ginjo as a villain. very much a pleasure to see your breakdown of this fantastic fight
I don't care what issues anyone has with Bleach or the anime, but the SOUND DESIGN and MUSIC are soo iconic. As you were talking through the fight I vividly remembered the sounds of the fight, from the stomp and slight *bwoosh* of Ichigo firing off that first Getsuga Tensho, to the *bwoaw* and crackle of Ginjo's Cero and Ichigo catching it.
I'm a huge fan of this fight and this arc -- it's definitely got its issues, but on the whole, I think it was a really cool change of pace and dip into character-driven story for the property as a unit. Ichigo's motivations are one of my favorite things about the series and to have an entire arc that breaks that down and really forces the audience (and Ichigo) to look hard at that was so immeasurably interesting to me. And to top it off with one of the coolest manga fights I've ever seen... I mean really, it's a win-win. (There are definitely parts of this arc that I wish were stronger, but on the whole I think the bones of the thing are great.) Anyway, thanks for an amazing and insightful video! Looking forward to watching more of your content!
Perhaps for your next video, you can discuss the effects of Senjumaru’s Bankai and whether each fate weaved is actually prophesied. Most importantly Uryu’s. I still don’t understand the fate she weaves for him. It would be great to hear your opinion on Uryu’s fate.
To think this all happened thanks to the paranoid psychopaths in the nobility, with one particular lunatic being the driving force behind it all. No wonder Ginjo chose his path. Still, at least Xcution is now a force for good with it's surviving members working and managing it well. Like Ginjo and Ichigo Xcution mirrors and now is the opposite of the nobles, who remain brutal and greedy egomaniacs.
@@tolispsaltis6860 That he is. Made worse by the fact that the system abetted and protected him, learning the truth of Soul Society's origins helped him cut loose.
At that point in time, it was his other family members collecting the body parts. Tokinada had little influence on his noble family until he became clan head though. He wasn't part of the main line.
I wish to ask something When Ichibe fought Yhwach he took all the black in world Can he also take the blackness of mugetsu and would that do anything, since it means "moonless sky" and without black it wouldnt be "moonless"
I think you forget that Ichigo can feel the sorrow and conflict in the blades of his enemies and will battle them to beat the truth into their blade thus, in turn, the wielder. He would rather not battle at all but strives for peace and protection above all so he will stand in the way of anyone that wills to harm his friends with the hope that his enemies will relent, but will battle to the death to teach his enemies to understand his world view...
What I realised was that Ichigos Shikai and Bankai changed for killing showing how hes gonna have to make serious choices Ginjo was Ichigos first kill he did himself.
I'm seeing a number of direct parallels to the final battle of the Arrancar arc now: the Karakura Town one that you brought up, the main villain damaging one of Ichigo's arms and questioning why Ichigo is fighting at all, and Ichigo unleashing some final form to completely wipe the floor with them. I wonder how much of this is intentional
I don't think Ginjo wasn't the 1st substitute soul reaper I think they where others for a organization that's been around for so long I think they are more out there I would like to see a arc where they all come together
I was always under the impression that Ginjo's "Bankai" was simply another "power" of Ichigo's that he stole. Hence why it is unnamed, why the appearance just makes him look even more like Ichigo's former Fullbring while also taking on minor characteristics of Ichigo's inner hollow (the red fur around his neck), and why the abilities of this "bankai" are simply the same as Ichigo's, nothing more than a power boost (or resurrection if you hold onto the belief that Ichigo's bankai mimic's an arrancar's resurrection). With how "rare" bankai is supposed to be, it makes no sense that he would be able to attain such power simply as a substitute Shinigami. Ichigo's comment about Ginjo being a former sub after activating it also hints more so to the fact that Ginjo would know how to tap into more of Ichigo's power because he used to be a Shinigami.
I always made a joke with Ginjo whenever he uses Getsuga since he did steal Ichigo's power. I usually call it "Fakesuga Tensho" lol. FR though I wanna see more Ginjo in the TYBW.
If Ginjo were given an actual backstory, then maybe it would've given this battle more of a "presence". The captains say they're there to witness Ichigo's decision but we have no reason to believe that he has any reason to.
Great video love fullbring arc very underrated arc of bleach story overall @mrtommo2304 is it possible to do video just soley on ginjo original fullbring scaffold as i love in depth discussion about its capabilities. Thank you 👍
I feel like lost agent is inspired by Bount Arc as its a hidden faction using objects but much less in every sense. In Bount arc there is also a rouge shinigami.
I'd like to think out of the captain's that stood out to protect ichigo from getting taken out if their original plan was still in motion would have been Byakuya Toshiro Shinji Kenpachi Jushiro And most of the lieutenants would agree
The lost agent arc was my least favorite to watch as it was airing, but my favorite on rewatch. I think the slower pacing and lack of fights hurt it on initial airing, but the story shines through if you binge it.
If ichigo did have to fight them I can imaging Toshiro and Ikkaku easily getting taken out by Ichigo and Ginjo Kenpachi/Byakuya vs Ginjo/Ichigo might be a crazy fight but Ichigo might be doing most the work lol
Around 30:44 I would disagree, i always got the feelings that Ginjo was speaking from experience, it's too especific to be just something random, and that's what made me think that, his rage comes from the pain of betray more then anything else. The story if you analyze it, it just never makes sense unless Ginjo was betray by the Gotei 13. Not only that but the story of why the past random substitute soul reaper never took the powers of the other Fullbringers... It just never makes sense, unless you suddenly change the random to Ginjo and Tsukishima with Gotei, it just fills a lot of hole, especially if you analyze there are only 2 cases of Substitute soul reapers.
I liked this arc. Having ichigo reach the pinnacle and losing all his powers, to slowly training them up! That's what makes any series interesting, the grind to strength. It was well done with the enemy, being an ally, of a friend.. who's an enemy.. But it makes sence! Then to go into this final fight! Ishida is a scary cat, not nearly comprehending ichigo level. Then, ichigo skillfully decimated. Perfection. It doesnt come close to overpowering aizen. But, the same feelings were felt. This could have been a bounto arc, instead it was a thing of beauty. Loved it
I remember when i first got to this arc, my friend straight told me ginjo will betray ichigo and I was still shocked when it happened. that probably proves how stupid I am but I think it serves to show just how much of a beast kubo is 😅
Ichigo exploding Yukio pocket dimension is something I think references the ban for top Espada release in Hueko Mundo. It's banned becausee of something like this!
So… by this point in the story, Ichigo knows who and what his father is… his father literally lives in the same house as him, and if anybody would understand what it feels like as a shinigami who has lost his power… so he hangs out with Ginjo?
![[TH] VALORANT Champions Seoul - Grand Final - EDG vs TH](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/WvObMc9VelI/mqdefault.jpg)
This is a fight I've been wanting to discuss for some time and I'm quite proud of this one, so settle in, grab a drink, and I really hope you enjoy it! What did you think of Ichigo vs Ginjo, their final battle? Was it a good ending to The Lost Agent Arc? Did you like Ichigo's new Bankai? Let me know!
Yes it is the best one out of them all
I personally LOVED the Lost Agent Arc, and at times found myself wishing for more. It gave us a side of Bleach that we rarely saw. As in, the supernatural side of things on Earth itself, through the lense of people that actually live there, instead of the Soul Reapers, who oftentimes are fish out of water when it comes to the World of the Living.
the reason Kubo held back on convincing Ichigo is because, like we've seen with Yhwach, he'd create a situation he doesn't know how to fix
Easily one of the best fights in the series, and in IMO the best arc as well.
Also shoutouts to the anime adaptation, I think It's the best adapted arc at least in the original anime.
Why don't you do bleach power levels
When Ichigo first gets his powers back and is like "That wasn't Getsuga, I was just swinging my sword" is legit one of my favorite moments in the series
"Bitch you thought" - Ichigo
Tsukishima turning all of Ichigo’s friends into brainwashed puppets is still one of the scariest things in this entire series.
No very true
SO TRUE that episode had me so stressed. The way he's running away from everything
When I first watched this season, seeing Ichigo break down literally gave me shivers. I thought he was gonna be lost for good but it was all just a trick.
Yeah he was the true antagonist when they were coming out of it. All I wanted wasn't ichigo to take him out but his father.
What are you talking about? My cousin Tsukishima would never do that to anyone. He's practically like a brother to me. He's a great guy!
The fact that everyone in the gotei 13 poured some of their energy into that reietsu blade is really touching.
Plus, It was about time they paid Ichigo back for all the stuff he did.
If it wasn't for ichigo soul society would have been destroyed by either aizen or yhwach. With ichigo not around soul society would have fallen at aizens hand.
Not everyone in the Gotei 13.
I adore the Lost Agent Arc. It’s my favorite Bleach arc precisely because Ginjo and Tsukishima *broke* Ichigo in a way no one else could do with all their amazing powers and raw strength.
I know, right?
I still find it crazy that they sent Hitsuguya, Kenpachi, Byakuya, Renji, Ikkaku and Rukia to oversee the fight and potentially kill Ichigo. Of all the Shinigami who have had experience with Ichigo, every one they sent would be least inclined to do harm to Ichigo, with perhaps an exception to Kenpachi. He has helped them all and changed them most of all
Even then Kenny admitted he would not have done so if he was commanded to
It honestly felt to me like some weird loyalty test. Or perhaps the reasoning that it was those who best know and respect Ichigo that could best judge if they would need to kill him.
Yeah very true
WHO WANT TO KILL ICHIGO?! WTF?!
@@TheDanTheDan15When Ichigo learned about Gingo and what happened, after gaining his powers back, there was a chance he would turn against Soul Society. In the case when that chance actually takes place, all present were ordered to take action, possibly killing him.
But Kenpachi, Rukia and Byakuya would never do it. I think they were there to judge him. Ken would maybe fight him just to test his powers, but would immediately withdraw if ordered to kill. Byakuya even admits to Tsukishima, that even his master, his family and the closest person growing up is not as important for him as Ichigo. Hitsugaya wouldn’t kill him, but he for sure would fight him and freeze him in ice, if he truly became and enemy. He wouldn’t want it, but he knows what duty is.
Really, out of all the people there I’m unsure of only what Renji would do. This means he’s a much more complex character, that we thought…
Something I love about the end is Yama actually mentally preparing to fight Ichigo. Like, you know it wouldn't just be a one shot kill. He'd actually have to full on fight him.
Maybe, but I feel like first form of yamas bankai would wash that version of ichigo. If Yama was going all out I doubt ichigo would last long at that stage of the story. Now if we're talking tybwa ichigo with his true shikai? That's a very different story
Hit this one out of the park!
The bankai reveal and design, the final thrust of zangetsu finishing the fight, all of it was a masterpiece.
We really should've gotten Ginjo's backstory in the manga. And Ginjo fighting in the final arc would be 🔥
I always loved how cinematic this fight was in the anime. Ginjo is the most human of the main Bleach antagonists, and the clear parallels between him and Ichigo adds a tragic edge to the fact that he was the first human Ichigo killed in the story.
Ichigo being able to see that he could have ended up like Ginjo and still accepting his role as a Substitute Soul Reaper, while also ensuring that Ginjo was given a chance at a new life, shows the kind of good person Ichigo truly is.
It's also likely that Ginjo's death also had an effect on Ichigo. When Ichigo returns to Soul Society during Wandenreich's first invasion and witnesses the death and destruction caused by Yhwach and his army, he seems really bloodthirsty and willing to go for the kill immediately. I guess killing Ginjo changed Ichigo's personality in a similar manner to how Kyouraku in TYBW seems a lot colder and more ruthless than before.
Kyoraku became colder because Yamamoto who was like a protective net for him wasn't there anymore and Ichigo pretty much just embraced his more ruthless side he always had as we see from true zangetsu
@@tolispsaltis6860yeah same as IRL, when they fired my boss and put me in his position amid a tough situation I had to become an evil bloodthirsty dude quickly
Ichigo didn't change. Even fighting Sternritter he didn't want to go for the kill. He treated them the exact same way he treated the Arrancar, as living beings with conscious and lives that should be respected. With Ginjo he knew he was too far gone, they were clashing blades and Ichigo knew his feelings and intentions.
Ichigo always ‘goes for the kill’. Or at the very least, he doesn’t fight with the specific intention to spare an opponent unless there’s a clear power gap in his favor. It’s an ‘if he dies he dies, if not he doesn’t’ fighting style and mentality. When Urahara first was teaching Ichigo, he taught him to swing his blade to kill. We see he didn’t do this against Jidanbo (power gap) but he did against Ikkaku, Renji and Kenpachi, who all would’ve died if they didn’t get medical attention. Then against the Lieutenants he didn’t fight to kill (power gap) but he did use his strongest moves (move) against Byakuya
Tsukishima is the first person Ichigo resolved to kill out of anger and he opted to kill Ginjo to ‘save’ him from himself
It could also be possible that he picked up that lethality on the first move to be something he learned to do because of his battle with Aizen when faced against a top tier threat he knows is going to be so powerful there isn't room to think, that the first attack must be the killing blow against an enemy like Yhwach or Aizen. Itchigo didnt do that with Ginjo, or he'd have activated bankai immediately. The difference was in threat level.
A really intuitive way they could have displayed the temptation to side or at least empathize with Ginjo would have been through one of the Inner Zanpakuto, either White or Old Man Zangetsu chafing at the prospect of being deceived and placed under surveillance.
Would have given the two spirits some extra screen time too.
Not showing Ichigo reuniting with his spirits and talking to them after 17 months was a major missed opportunity
The Lost Agent Arc had an amazing ending, Ichigo vs Ginjo is one of my favourite fights. I still wish we would have gotten more info on Ginjo's past in the canon manga
Me too he is my second favourite character
Ima gonna ask u with our being and asshole what exactly did u like about that fight cuz in my opinion that fight wasn't a fight at all the fight with him ans ginjo lasted like 10 seconds before he got slaughter by ichigo the build up I van understand but to say is ur favorite fight idk dude had ichigos power and still lost horribly
Ichigo's look down at the fallen Ginjo is so good, reminds me of Goku's pained expression when he "killed" Frieza back in Namek. There's not a sense of victory, triumph and even rage, just...sadness and resignation over the fact that to fight was the only answer. All conveyed with a single look.
I think this arc needed 2-3 flashbacks. One to show the fallout between Ginjo and the soul society or Ukitake. Another to show Ginjo meeting Tsukishima and maybe him forming Xcution. Also, possibly a missed opportunity to give Ukitake a real fight.
The emotional impact before the Fight was extremly intense. Ichigo breaking down crying, everyone turned against him, powerless again and betrayed by the people he thought would help him. And then you have this absolut banger of a fight. I dont quite this arc for the most part, but the end was damm good.
I think there's a beautiful horror tragedy in the fact that Ichigo's first kill was a human.
I always liked Ichigo's new design and bankai too bad it wasn't around for long.
Chonky Zangetsu = Best Zangetsu
The shikai is my favorite version but the bankai just feels too long imo
@@3slicessenpaiI am too a chunky Zangetsu enjoyer.
Great video as always!! I think you hit every point that makes this battle such a powerful moment despite how little of the series it takes up, Kubo really put a lot of care into it. I will say I think the pathos the CFYOW info adds to Ginjo’s reveal of the Pass’s true purpose is incredible. The thing Ginjo omitted-that his friends were ended for no apparent reason by (as he is made to believe, at least) the Court Guards-is also probably the thing that might have turned Ichigo around definitively, that being that his own loved ones could meet the same fate. So it makes it read like some part of Ginjo really didn’t want Ichigo to either start down his own dark path, or to follow Ginjo down his, knowing where it would lead. So he buried that aspect. (I think that one look he gives Ichigo after he says he’s going to protect his loved ones by fighting Ginjo, then also conveys the irony that those loved ones include Shinigami who collectively took his own from him.) And then it’s from Ichigo’s side, too. To hear the story he was told about the Pass, and then as he and Ginjo are fighting, with Ichigo now able to read Ginjo’s emotions/intentions/etc for the first time without Book of the End interfering, to be faced with this overwhelming desperation that just doesn’t match up to the supposed explanation. Not necessarily figuring the truth out just from that-but understanding the position Ginjo is in and there being no end in sight to that pain, like you said a conclusion really becomes an act of mercy. And better at his hands as someone who understands Ginjo, than at the hands of the Shinigami who wouldn’t bother trying to.
I love this fight between ginjo vs Ichigo in the anime. Especially the line ginjo says that look in your eyes as if your trying to see thing from my perspective and put yorself in my shoes
Yeah
The lost agent may not have been the best arc but it really made Ichigo grow as a character
Honestly I wish Ichigo had started learning and using more techniques here. Even just stuff like Cero, or creating the Fullbring shield (maybe even making them into explosive shurikens?), or hell, even some Kido or more specialised Arrancar techniques
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Oddly enough, I could've seen Soi Fon being one of the people being against killing Ichigo for two reasons. Both for her own personal reasons, but also because she wouldn't want Yoruichi to be sad or for her to leave again.
I think it would be for a different reason. Deep down she actually respects Ichigo and appreciates what he has done. She wouldn’t be against giving him a chance to make a decision.
@@doginababyseat5127❤
people: Kubo just makes repetitive arcs
Mr Kubo: makes something completely different
people: stupid arc it doesnt resemble Bleach
me: MAKE YOUR DAMN MIND PEASANTS
and I love every arc of Bleach! ❤
Agreed. And same here
@@RickyUzumaki993 high-five fellow Internet traveler! 🖖
@@ErenisRanitos
High five! ✋
the Arrancar saga was exaustive due to how long it was, a shorter more down to earth character focused arc like the lost agent arc was needed
@@conic2721
Very true
Lost Agent is madly underrated. Tsukishima and Ginjo had Ichigo broken and crying harder than anyone else ever did. Seeing Ichigo finally fight back and steamroll with his full strength was SO satisfying.
I had a whole idea about who dissented and why to eliminating both substitutes, but realized they probably made that decision of killing them long before Ichigo was ever in the picture. My thought is that they probably made that plan in the Turn Back The Pendulum era, and only sent the captains that they did because they were more intimately familiar with Ichigo and his abilities than anyone else in the current Gotei.
If Shinji was part of the group that greenlit this, it's gotta be awkward to be reminded of this plan when a close friend might die because of it.
I wonder how long Tommo could make a battle analysis about fights like Renji vs Jackie 😅
Not complaining ofc, these vids are among my favorites
Thank you for giving us a deep dive
In regards to the soul society’s betrayal of Ichigo I guess I always just kinda figured the gotei 13 had very little doubt that Ichigo would side with them in the end. Yamamoto himself gives some of his power to restore Ichigo. Of course it IS their responsibility to prepare for every eventuality as Urahara often does and so were prepared to take on Ichigo if need be but again I really feel they probably saw that as an almost impossible outcome considering everything they went through together against Aizen and the bonds Ichigo had forged with Rukia, Renji and others.
Other than Ichigo losing his faith in being able to make a difference during the aizen fight, this ginjo battle really hits the hardest throughout the entire show
Agreed
Hopefully they include CFYOW into the anime so we have some closure about Ginjo being betrayed by Soul Society, thanks to Tokinada and his evil schemes.
This is one of my favorite fights with two of my favorite characters. Ichigo was just too powerful after absorbing that blade of reiatsu. Really wanted to see more of Ginjo. His Bankai is one of the coolest designs in the series.
Every time I rewatch this fight I just think how amazing the anime looked at this point. It rivals the TYBW anime in my opinion. It was a much more emotional then physical fight in my opinion. Sometimes I wish Gingo and the fullbringers left for soul soceity before Ichigo got his powers back to really elevate the stakes of the lost agent arc. Gingo finds Ukitake drinking tea and while fighting they discuss Gingo’s past while the other lieutenants deal with the fullbringers terrozing Soul soceity, kinda like soul soceity arc where Ichigo and the gang are seen as invaders.
This fight is my absolute favorite in Bleach, and honestly one of my favorite fights in all of anime as well, it really is awesome and thee Last Agent arc is my favorite arc in Bleach.
Fullbringer arc is my favorite arc in the series for stuff like this. Never got the hate behind it at all.
Thank you...I enjoyed the depth of your video here. Well done as always. I look forward to your videos every week. Your dedication is easy to notice & I hope you & yours are doing well, resting easy. All the best! Also, I started watching Bleach in entirety in 2018 when I was sick for a month, I had seen it back in the early 2010's, learned who Rie Fu was...but I didn't get involved until 2018 with both Anime & Manga. Only Rumiko ranks higher than Kubo in my books, but it really isn't a competition. Rumiko got me into Anime & Manga from Japan back in 2006. I remember getting to this arc & found it to be enthralling, glad Ginjo found some redemption...I look forward to the Cour 3 reaction videos from you & James, as you both offer something different but both together heighten the experience. Again, All the best! I hope you stay in the books & keep creatively reading & sharing, teaching & helping us understand the world of Bleach...Take good care :)
I really would've liked to see Kubo play around with the thoughts of the Gotei members on if they could defeat Ichigo or not. Personally, I think most of them would have worries since he did defeat Aizen. And in the TYBW, we see Full-Bring Ichigo is no joke since he one shots Shaz Domino
Would love to have seen bloodlusted ichigo vs Unohana. Or even bloodlusted ichigo vs kenpachi
I think that anyone who makes it to the level of captain goes into battles without thinking of winning or losing. They fight knowing they're usually stronger, but never staying back even when they can't win.
The lost agent arc is just so good, can't imagine how the people watching the anime felt when the series ended after the arc
I remember when Ichigo got his powers back I always wondered of his New Shikai was just the Shikai if his "Dangai" Form.
I couldn't wait till he released Bankai just to see that Iconic form again .😂
Ginjo is my favorite bleach character. I loved where he ended in CFYW.
This was a good arc, I really hope they improve some things towards the end of the TYBW Arc, it has so much potential to be the best arc now that he isn't being rushed and is in better health
Aside from the amazing writing and narrative storytelling through battle this fight has, in the anime, this is one of the most well animated and choreographed fights in the entire series, and that’s including Bleach’s current TYBW anime adaption. There was a certain fluidity and dynamic sense of action in the combat and swordplay of the latter end of the Bleach anime with the Zanpakuto Rebellion, Regai, and Fullbring Arc that isn’t replicated even in the TYBW’s first 2 Cours, and Ichigo vs Ginjo, especially the Bankai portion of the fight, is one of those examples
You could always see ginjo watching him with intent to get him to his side like the sidious tried with Luke he technically never was wrong about his ideals
Ginjo had a negative vibe art
Just for the fact that we get two of Ichigo's best designs in this fight alone makes it one of the best. Fullbring bankai will always be my favourite of every single design in the series, barring any possible future ones.
If Ichigo kills another human, does that mean he'll go to hell when he dies? Or if you kill someone as a shinigami, does that negate the "killing" of a human rule? Based on what we now know about Captain level shinigamis, Ichigo is destined for hell anyways when he dies along with all his friends.
Grown up is essentially accurate- it really feels like a natural evolution of Ichigo's Bankai
The TYBA version felt like a bastardized mutation that truly regressed Ichigo’s progress to the point his Bankai’s ultimate form is just his Shikai by some foreshadowed element via Yhwach's vision without elaboration of what it exactly means
In the case of the latter, given how the Royal Guard was planning to throw Ichigo under the bus by turning him into a glorified battery, I wouldn’t put it past them to deliberately limit his true potential so he’s better as a tool.
Ironically ywhach actually saved ichigo unintentionally by absorbing his quincy powers.
If you just realized that bleach is literally a story of ichigo cleaning up soul society problems without them actually needing to be held accountable
🙃
then you really don't know Bleach.
@babytoshiro7014 we can go through each arc until I'm wrong I don't mind 😉
@@akuokami1677 Why?
@babytoshiro7014 honestly it's so hard to find anyone to talk about Manga like bleach with IRL so the thought of going through each arc with someone until the pattern breaks sounded fun. 🙃
Easily my favourite arc after the thousand year blood war.
Same here
I feel this Tommo, great video 👍
I don't think CFYOW really ruins the mirror at all, it just points out that Ginjo is not the substitute soul reaper Ichigo is. He's willing to get down and dirty and Ichigo just isn't. No matter what you do to Ichigo he's not going to stoop down to that level.
no matter how little we actually got of his fullbring outfit it will always be one of my favorite
fantastic video tommo. always thought the lost agent arc had one of the best endings in the series and love ginjo as a villain. very much a pleasure to see your breakdown of this fantastic fight
I don't care what issues anyone has with Bleach or the anime, but the SOUND DESIGN and MUSIC are soo iconic. As you were talking through the fight I vividly remembered the sounds of the fight, from the stomp and slight *bwoosh* of Ichigo firing off that first Getsuga Tensho, to the *bwoaw* and crackle of Ginjo's Cero and Ichigo catching it.
I'm a huge fan of this fight and this arc -- it's definitely got its issues, but on the whole, I think it was a really cool change of pace and dip into character-driven story for the property as a unit. Ichigo's motivations are one of my favorite things about the series and to have an entire arc that breaks that down and really forces the audience (and Ichigo) to look hard at that was so immeasurably interesting to me. And to top it off with one of the coolest manga fights I've ever seen... I mean really, it's a win-win. (There are definitely parts of this arc that I wish were stronger, but on the whole I think the bones of the thing are great.) Anyway, thanks for an amazing and insightful video! Looking forward to watching more of your content!
Ichigo: we don't do talk no jutsu in my verse😂
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Tell that to Ichigo Vs Byakuya .............
@@truthspreader1996 byakuya wasn't really evil though😂😂
@@justsomeguywithamustache2901 Who said you had to be evil........
You pretty much just need to be misguided.
1st watch of this was insane the animation stands up to today
I still think Kugo’s Bankai is one of Kudo’s coolest designs
Thats my favorite version of Ichigo's bankai.
never been this early to a tommo video, cheers :)
Loved this ❤ ty
Perhaps for your next video, you can discuss the effects of Senjumaru’s Bankai and whether each fate weaved is actually prophesied. Most importantly Uryu’s. I still don’t understand the fate she weaves for him. It would be great to hear your opinion on Uryu’s fate.
1 view, 1 comment, 41 seconds ago, time for some high-quality bleach analysis
I've seen this arc more than a couple of times and never had the sensation that Ichigo would join Ginjo...
I wish ginjo have more of a relationship with ichigo. Wish we gotten the relationship between him and isshin.
To think this all happened thanks to the paranoid psychopaths in the nobility, with one particular lunatic being the driving force behind it all. No wonder Ginjo chose his path. Still, at least Xcution is now a force for good with it's surviving members working and managing it well. Like Ginjo and Ichigo Xcution mirrors and now is the opposite of the nobles, who remain brutal and greedy egomaniacs.
Tokinada is the most vile character in bleach by far which says a lot considering Mayuri is there
@@tolispsaltis6860 That he is. Made worse by the fact that the system abetted and protected him, learning the truth of Soul Society's origins helped him cut loose.
At that point in time, it was his other family members collecting the body parts. Tokinada had little influence on his noble family until he became clan head though. He wasn't part of the main line.
The first time Ichigo ever actually killed someone
Not good for an anime main character and he killed a fellow human....
I wish to ask something
When Ichibe fought Yhwach he took all the black in world
Can he also take the blackness of mugetsu and would that do anything, since it means "moonless sky" and without black it wouldnt be "moonless"
Black is black. But mugetsu don’t crack
Do you have a Tensa Zangetsu video? Kind of sad we never get to see him again
Ginjo has a nameless bankai, why Tite didn't revealed?
I think you forget that Ichigo can feel the sorrow and conflict in the blades of his enemies and will battle them to beat the truth into their blade thus, in turn, the wielder. He would rather not battle at all but strives for peace and protection above all so he will stand in the way of anyone that wills to harm his friends with the hope that his enemies will relent, but will battle to the death to teach his enemies to understand his world view...
Love Love Your Writing & Elaboration & Celebration 🤟🏽🤟🏽💯💯
What I realised was that Ichigos Shikai and Bankai changed for killing showing how hes gonna have to make serious choices Ginjo was Ichigos first kill he did himself.
I'm seeing a number of direct parallels to the final battle of the Arrancar arc now: the Karakura Town one that you brought up, the main villain damaging one of Ichigo's arms and questioning why Ichigo is fighting at all, and Ichigo unleashing some final form to completely wipe the floor with them. I wonder how much of this is intentional
I don't think Ginjo wasn't the 1st substitute soul reaper I think they where others for a organization that's been around for so long I think they are more out there I would like to see a arc where they all come together
Mr tommo where you been mann
I was always under the impression that Ginjo's "Bankai" was simply another "power" of Ichigo's that he stole. Hence why it is unnamed, why the appearance just makes him look even more like Ichigo's former Fullbring while also taking on minor characteristics of Ichigo's inner hollow (the red fur around his neck), and why the abilities of this "bankai" are simply the same as Ichigo's, nothing more than a power boost (or resurrection if you hold onto the belief that Ichigo's bankai mimic's an arrancar's resurrection). With how "rare" bankai is supposed to be, it makes no sense that he would be able to attain such power simply as a substitute Shinigami. Ichigo's comment about Ginjo being a former sub after activating it also hints more so to the fact that Ginjo would know how to tap into more of Ichigo's power because he used to be a Shinigami.
I always made a joke with Ginjo whenever he uses Getsuga since he did steal Ichigo's power. I usually call it "Fakesuga Tensho" lol. FR though I wanna see more Ginjo in the TYBW.
Ichigo full bring sword is the most beautiful. The only issue I have there is size. Couldn't it be A LITTLE smaller?
You read my mind!
If Ginjo were given an actual backstory, then maybe it would've given this battle more of a "presence". The captains say they're there to witness Ichigo's decision but we have no reason to believe that he has any reason to.
Yeah the Fullbring Arc has some Fantastic stuff, I just hate how everyone immediately writes it off without giving it a chance 🤧🤧
Great video love fullbring arc very underrated arc of bleach story overall
@mrtommo2304 is it possible to do video just soley on ginjo original fullbring scaffold as i love in depth discussion about its capabilities. Thank you 👍
This is a Very good battle! Also low key underrated arc IMO anyway.
I feel like lost agent is inspired by Bount Arc as its a hidden faction using objects but much less in every sense. In Bount arc there is also a rouge shinigami.
I'd like to think out of the captain's that stood out to protect ichigo from getting taken out if their original plan was still in motion would have been
Byakuya
Toshiro
Shinji
Kenpachi
Jushiro
And most of the lieutenants would agree
The lost agent arc was my least favorite to watch as it was airing, but my favorite on rewatch. I think the slower pacing and lack of fights hurt it on initial airing, but the story shines through if you binge it.
If ichigo did have to fight them I can imaging Toshiro and Ikkaku easily getting taken out by Ichigo and Ginjo
Kenpachi/Byakuya vs Ginjo/Ichigo might be a crazy fight but Ichigo might be doing most the work lol
Around 30:44 I would disagree, i always got the feelings that Ginjo was speaking from experience, it's too especific to be just something random, and that's what made me think that, his rage comes from the pain of betray more then anything else.
The story if you analyze it, it just never makes sense unless Ginjo was betray by the Gotei 13.
Not only that but the story of why the past random substitute soul reaper never took the powers of the other Fullbringers... It just never makes sense, unless you suddenly change the random to Ginjo and Tsukishima with Gotei, it just fills a lot of hole, especially if you analyze there are only 2 cases of Substitute soul reapers.
I liked this arc.
Having ichigo reach the pinnacle and losing all his powers, to slowly training them up! That's what makes any series interesting, the grind to strength.
It was well done with the enemy, being an ally, of a friend.. who's an enemy..
But it makes sence! Then to go into this final fight! Ishida is a scary cat, not nearly comprehending ichigo level.
Then, ichigo skillfully decimated.
Perfection. It doesnt come close to overpowering aizen. But, the same feelings were felt.
This could have been a bounto arc, instead it was a thing of beauty. Loved it
Actually I think the small bow disappears when Uryu joins the Quincy.
Which would make sense I think.
I remember when i first got to this arc, my friend straight told me ginjo will betray ichigo and I was still shocked when it happened. that probably proves how stupid I am but I think it serves to show just how much of a beast kubo is 😅
Thank u ❤
It was an epic, if rushed, finish to an arc that deserved better.
I'd love to see more bleach...sad but great full it's climaxing
I would have liked to have seen the captain's try to fight Ichigo, just to seem them all be put down
get real. It would not be another aizen situation. the captains would curbstomp ichigo.
@@babytoshiro7014 You believe so!?
This arc would have been an excellent replacement for the bount arc with it ending with Ginjo and co escaping then picking up here
Your videos butter My biscuits thank you
Ichigo exploding Yukio pocket dimension is something I think references the ban for top Espada release in Hueko Mundo. It's banned becausee of something like this!
So… by this point in the story, Ichigo knows who and what his father is… his father literally lives in the same house as him, and if anybody would understand what it feels like as a shinigami who has lost his power… so he hangs out with Ginjo?
The episode/chapter where he gets his powers back should’ve been called sword of light
The first time Ichigo murdered another human.