No brother, it doesn't simply say don't bow down or worship them- it says don't make them at all. There's also has a verse that says cursed is the man that makes a graven image Deuteronomy 27:15 . So its not only talking about pagan idolatry its talking about making the statue. So, having decorations/ statues of any living thing like a human/animal is prohibited- whether its worshipped or not.
Hi Eddiee, thank you for your comment. I think our difference of opinion here is based on our interpretation methods. If you base your interpretation of graven images only on Deuteronomy 27:15, then your interpretation is correct. However, there are several other verses that help us define graven images. When you put them all together it is clear that graven images are served. Almost every verse referring to graven images mentions worshipping them (which means bowing in obedience) or service to them. Deuteronomy 27:15 is part of the blessings and curses of the law. The topics mentioned in this chapter are all brief and in no way should be taken as the whole of the subject. Deuteronomy 27:15 says, “Cursed be the man that makes any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and puts it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen.” Since most other verses regarding graven images require service and worship, it should be assumed that graven images here require service as well. This is the way language works. An example today might be in regards to voting. I could say, “lets vote this Tuesday.” It is assumed that those voting are citizens and registered to vote, even though I did not mention that. We do this with language every day, but for some reason we avoid this when studying the scripture. This is why I teach that the Bible is a Law Book. It is written in legal code (Is. 28:9-13). We should study the scripture like a lawyer preparing for trial. There is a maxim of law that says, ““Constructions that would lead to absurd or unreasonably harsh results are disfavored.” (Adams Stephens, Listing the Canons of Construction.) It would be “absurd” and “unreasonably harsh” to think that God is offended by a father putting up a picture of their family on their wall. However, based on only Deuteronomy 27:15 this would be sin with a graven image. If this were the interpretation then we all need to remove all our decorations and only have plain walls in our homes. However, an image or picture on my wall is not served, and I do not bow down and worship them. Service requires a contract. I think we should be careful not to paint God in this manner. When we tell people their decorations in their homes are graven images this makes God look very unreasonable. Thank you again for your comment.
Also he said the governor's and presidents are the Gods of this country you want to believe this backwards thinking man who is serving somebody strange
Thank you for explaining a different interpretation of this. The graven imagery issue has been a major point of contention for me for decades, if only because I think a lot about art and so can better work through the philosophical implications and arguments about it (the other teachings aren't so close to my expertise lol). it's always bothered me, it's one of the reasons i'm not a christian, but this is an interesting take. thank you
Hi Danto’s Inferne, thank you for your comment. I used to have a similar contention. It was this contention that caused me to really study it out. It never made sense to me that God was offended by art of His own creation, especially since He commanded images to be made, but when you look at it the way I teach it makes more sense. God does not like it when government oppresses the people. Graven images are one way they do just that. They take ownership of the people’s property, businesses, etc. through their graven image, or corporations. On a side note, much of Christianity does not represent the Bible well. Don’t worry about the name one calls themselves, but the Bible is God’s word without any doubt. Follow YHVH through His Messiah, not Christianity. That is where the truth lies. I don’t call myself a Christian either, but if someone else does I don’t object to it. I just avoid being connected to a name that can mean so many different things. Thank you again for your comment.
@@answerethamatter4469 that's beautiful! it definitely makes more sense than the 'common' interpretations of the 2nd. it's particularly eerie given how well that perspective lines up with other 'conspiracy theories' regarding satanic influences within state/earthly power, ideas about an 'anti-christ system' rather than a specific person, and other teachings in the bible. it seems much more in line with the 'real' philosophy of yahweh that i've been slowly learning about. thank you very much for sharing your perspective and study on it. it's valuable and inspiring work that helps people find their way to the truth!
Your interpretation of cooperation is spot on. In revelation, it describes the 10 kingdoms (the Beast) as a type of corporation. The mark of the Beast (a seal of sovereignty) would be the idol.
The mark of the beast was Caesar worship. The Christians had to swear their allegiance to the Caesars (who thought they were gods) otherwise the Christians could not buy or sell. Look for modern day Caesars today to look for future fulfillment.
Isaiah 2:8 “Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made:” A graven image is an image with features. Exodus 20:4 “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:”
Hi Stacey, thanks for your comment. Although I am not necessarily in favor of Xmas trees or Jesus images, I would not classify them as graven images because I am aware of no contract associated with them. I am not contracted to celebrate Christmas or have a Christmas tree. It does not make them right, just not a graven image. 501c3 does have a contract involved. It takes away your property rights in whatever you have it for (church, non-profit, business, etc.). It is now the governments property, and they make the rules. God's Law is the "perfect law of liberty" (James 1:25). Incorporation takes away that liberty, but a xmas tree does not. I can remove my xmas tree anytime I want. To remove a corporation, you have to follow their rules to do so. This gives government too much power over a person's business and creates much less freedom in the land. Thank you again for your comment.
You may me change my thinking on incorporation. I thought incorporation was a good think. It usually brings more order and utilities to a city. But I suppose it depends on the leaders and citizens living there.
Hi Yi-Ming Shao, thank you for your comment. I do not think the Celtic cross printed on a bible would be considered a graven image. In my opinion, a graven image requires a contract to submit to something contrary to God's Law. Putting an image on something is not a graven image unless it requires service to that image. Thank you again for your comment.
@@answerethamatter4469 Is an icon inside an Eastern Orthodox Church a graven image? There was the iconoclasm in the 8th century when they were destroyed but icons quickly came back again. Is it right or wrong to venerate Christ and the Saints on an icon in a church.
Greetings , Should one have Angel images displayed in their home ? Would these be considered graven images . The Bible does say don’t make anything liken into what’s in heaven ...
Hi Ciera, thank you for your comment. I do not think images are wrong unless there is a contract associated with it. Graven images are served by contract. That is the point to the second commandment. The second part of the graven image commandment says, “Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them” (Ex. 20:5). To serve something requires a contract associated with the image, which is what my teaching was about. Having an image of an angel is not a graven image. However, it is definitely possible to put too much emphasis on an image. This should be avoided. Too often we tend to focus on an image such as a cross or an angel to focus our worship on. God is a person and He wants us to speak to Him as a person, not an image. I do not think having an image is wrong, but I would make sure it is not emphasized too much. Thank you again for your comment and be blessed.
@@cieradavis4807 Exodus 20:4~ “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth” Pick the Word over man.
Hi Kev Lo, thank you for your comments. This is a very narrow view of the second commandment. Unless we are willing to remove almost all decorations in our homes then we are all guilty of the second commandment. The “likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath” would pretty much disqualify every image imaginable. The entirety of scripture shows the need to serve the graven image (Psalms 97:7). Unless someone is contracted to serve that image, they are not guilty of the second commandment. I do not think this is the meaning of the second commandment.
@@answerethamatter4469 he conveniently left out the verse that specified creating graven images for the purpose of BOWING DOWN and SERVING (A.K.A. Worshipping) the image themselves
Hi Spider - Keith, thank you for your comment. I do not think action figures are graven images. Graven images are served. Psalms 97:7 says, “Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols.” Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego agree when they said, “be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy god” (Dan. 3:18). This was in reference to the statute of gold that Nebuchadnezzar set up. Graven images are served. This requires a contract. Unless you have a contract to serve your action figures then they are not graven images. With that said, someone can put so much emphasis on a hobby that it might distract them from God’s will in their life, but this is different than a graven image. I used to spend so much time with sports that it kept me from many things that I should have been doing instead. This was not good, but also not a graven image. We should keep our hobbies in check and not have them dominate our time so we can better serve God. Only you know if you spend too much time with action figures. If you think you are, then I would make every effort to balance your time better. Thank you again for your comment and be blessed.
Yes brother, they are graven images. They have the likeness of humankind. Exodus 20:4~ “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth”
Hi Kev Lo, thank you for your comments. It is always important to take all of scripture into context when considering any commandment. For example, God Himself commanded that two cherubim (angels) be placed over the ark of the covenant (Ex. 25:18). This would make the entire nation of Israel guilty of idolatry with a graven image. However, we know this is not true, especially since God endorsed it. When you take the entirety of scripture into context it is clear that for an image to qualify as a graven image under the second commandment the image must be served by contract. This is clear by the examples in scripture. The scriptures mentioned in my comment above demonstrate this. I would not want to guilt someone who has an image in their house by claiming they are breaking the second commandment. I have two statues of Labrador retriever dogs in my living room, but I am not contracted to serve them. They are not a violation of the second commandment and I do not have any guilt for having them. They only show that I like Labrador Retriever dogs. The “likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath” would pretty much disqualify every image imaginable and would make everyone guilty. It would require everyone to remove almost all decorations in their homes. I do not think this is the meaning of the second commandment.
@@answerethamatter4469you can argue that unless God commands it, you can't make any graven images at all. God commanded for cherubims to be built so it's okay, anything else isn't.
Is buddha a graven image I mean hes not a god my family has a buddha statue we dont worship him but we respect his teachings i told her many times to get rid of it but she didnt so do i leave or.
Hi Demonslayer, thank you for your comment. My understanding is that graven images are served by a contract with the ruler/god of that graven image. There is no contract with a buddha statue that I am aware of. I would not consider it a graven image for that reason, however, that does not make it the best decision for today. It would most likely be a stumbling block for many believers. For that reason, I would probably avoid displaying it if possible. This is a principle that the Apostle Paul mentioned to the Corinthians. Sometimes we have to make decisions for the sake of others, even if it would not be sin otherwise (1 Cor. 8:13). Another example might be alcohol. My wife and I do not drink alcohol much, but sometimes when we cook alcohol is required in the food we are preparing. When we are hosting a gathering, we always remove any signs of alcohol because some believers might be offended. Maybe they had a bad history with alcohol, and they struggle with it now. For whatever reason, a mature believer should always put the other believer ahead of themselves. I hope this helps answer your question and thank you again for your comment and for watching my videos.
@@answerethamatter4469 Yeah I suppose well we dont believe or worship buddha we just respect his teachings now me id never put him above the Most High. Besides buddha isnt a god anyway.
I don't know much about Buddha's teachings, but I do not think it is a graven image. I would just be cautious not to stumble a fellow believer. I pray YHVH gives you wisdom in your decision.
@@answerethamatter4469 FYI buddha teaches about inner peace and meditation. he's not a god like odin or zues, thor etc. he's a teacher like lao tzu and confucius. I don't intend to stumble a brother or sister in Christ. Just a bit confused.
@@demonslayer7537there should be no respect for another entity that claims to be a god in your home and you serve the Most High. The mixing of doctrine is not of God and is hindering your full relationship with Christ. The Holy Bible Is all you need in order to walk this life out.. get an exegesis, a Bible translator, and ask God for revelation of His Word to understand more of what is being said. God is the creator of peace and true meditation- Matthew 6:24 😊
Hello. Thank you for your comment. I do not think the Mona Lisa is an idol. Graven images and idols are served by contract. If there is no contract associated with the image then it is not a graven image or an idol. Of course, people can place too much emphasis on images and this is not good, but this is not what is meant by a graven image or an idol. Thank you again and be blessed.
Yes it is an idol, just like the Statue of Liberty. These images have captivated us and we’re too blind to see it. Exodus 20:4~ “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth”
Hi Kev Lo, thank you for your comments. I do not think the Statue of Liberty is a graven image. Solomon’s Temple had Pillars named Jachin and Boaz which God Himself endorsed (1 Kings 7:21). The Molten Sea had twelve statues of oxen holding it up (1 Kings 7:23-25). The second commandment does not disallow all images in heaven and earth, but only those images that we serve (Psalms 97:7). This requires a contract that we consent to. If the Statue of Liberty is a graven image, then it is a graven image for the entire nation, which would include all citizens. I do not think this is the meaning of the second commandment.
Hi Eddiiee, thank you for your comment. There is a logical fallacy in this interpretation. If all images are graven images, and God endorsed some, then God is endorsing graven images. This makes God an idolater. Based on this interpretation we can have pillars like Boaz and Jachin in our homes. We can also have Cherubim statues as well, but no other images. There were several other images in the Temple that God did not specifically endorse. Would these be graven images as well? If this were true then God is endorsing sin. This would make God Himself an idolater. I think it makes more sense to just accept the whole of scripture which says graven images are served. If there is no contract of service then it is not a graven image. The Brazen Serpent is a good example. This serpent was a good thing at first, but when Israel started worshipping it, it became sin and Hezekiah removed it (2 Kings 18:4). This shows that images by themselves are not bad until we decide to worship them. Thank you again for your comment.
Hi Norm, thank you for the comment. I do not think video games are an idol since there is no contract of service involved. However, they can be very time consuming and a big distract from the way God wants us to live our lives. If I had a strong video game habit I would take steps to get that under control before it became addictive. Thanks again for the comment.
What about pledging allegiance to the flag...with your hand over your heart ...understanding that the United States of America is a corporation ? I'm now concerned about doing that 😳
I agree with you. I have no problem honoring our flag, but pledging allegiance to it seems to go against the scripture. I always stand in honor of our flag, but do not say the pledge. The scripture teaches not to become surety for anyone (Prov. 17:18) and Jesus said not to swear an oath at all (Matt. 5:34-36). I agree with the words of the pledge, but I don't think pledging these words is in accordance with the scripture. Thank you again for your comment.
@@answerethamatter4469 Thank you so much for replying,I enjoyed your study...I saw you on Rood Awakening Saturday night ,I appreciate your research and perspective...it makes sense
Hi Norm, thanks for the comment. I do not think an image of Jesus is idolatry. Idolatry in the Bible requires service, which has a contract involved. Having an image of Jesus is not a graven image. However, it is definitely possible to put too much emphasis on an image. This should be avoided. Too often we tend to focus on an image such as a cross or Jesus to focus our worship on. God is a person and He wants us to speak to Him as a person, not an image. I use images in all my presentations because they help clarify things, but that does not make them idolatry. Of course, an obsessive interest in images is not a good thing. We should never put too much emphasis on an image, but that does not make it idolatry. It is just a bad habit that might distract us from what God wants our life to be. Thank you again for your comment.
Don't trust men as The Torah says Do Not add. Christ, the Only expert told some they didn't know Scripture. Verses >> II Peter 1:20 KJV (Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.) Psalms 118:8-9 KJV 🙏🙏
Hi Doug. Thank you again for your comment. I am not exactly sure what you are saying, but I agree that we should not add to or take away from God’s Law. However, it is very important to take all of scripture into context when studying any topic. What I think most are missing regarding graven images is the contract to serve them. A servant is someone who is bound by contract to a term of service to someone else. If you take into consideration every verse regarding graven images I think this is what you will come up with. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego knew this when they said “we will not serve your gods” (Dan. 3:18). This comes from Psalms 97:7 which says, “Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols.” There is a contract of service with graven images. Other images might be harmful as well, but they are not a graven image unless there is a contract of service. Remember, God Himself commanded that Israel use images from time to time. For example, God commanded that two cherubim (angels) be placed over the ark of the covenant (Ex. 25:18). These are images from heaven, but there is no contract of service to them. This is why they were okay. Thank you again for your comment.
Hi Eddiee, thank you for your comment. You are right. The main definition is a carved image that represents a god. However, this is not the entire definition. The definition also includes a contract of service and worship (Ex. 20:4-5). We need to take all of scripture in context to get the full definition. Thank you again for your comment.
Hi Luis G, thank you for your comment. I know my understanding of idolatry does not fit the norm, but it will solve many bible difficulties. Just for clarification, I am not a fan of Christmas or Christmas trees, but I do not think this is idolatry. A tree in a living room might be a lie, but it is not idolatry. Any image we have is technically a lie because it is not the real thing. If this were the standard then any image we have is idolatry. This would mean everyone needs to remove all decorations from their homes because all images are from “heaven above” and the “earth beneath” (Ex. 20:4) No pictures of nature, buildings, etc. would be allowed. However, God Himself commanded images in His house (Ex. 25:18, Heb. 9:5). A tree in a living room is no different than a plant in a living room. Neither a tree nor a plant naturally belongs inside, but for decoration purposes we sometimes bring them inside. Bringing a tree or a plant inside for religious purposes does not make sense either, but this is not what the Bible means by idolatry. I would consider this error, but not idolatry. Remember, idolatry keeps you from inheriting the Kingdom of God (Gal. 5:19-21). This would mean that everyone who has an image is disqualified from the Kingdom of God. I do not think this is what is meant. If you take the entire commandment into consideration then we get the answer. “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I YHVH thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; and shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments” (Ex. 20:4-6). The point to this commandment is that we are not to make images that we “bow down” to or “serve.” The word for “bow down” is shâchâh and means “to depress, that is, prostrate, especially reflexively in homage to royalty or God (Strong’s H7812). This means we are submitting to an authority in our lives which is contrary to God and against the first commandment. The word for serve is ‛âbad and means “to work; by implication to serve, enslave, keep in bondage, be bondmen, bond-service” (Strong’s H5647). This implies a commitment by contract and we now “serve” that authority. Christmas and Christmas trees are error, but not idolatry because there is no contract to actually serve another authority. I definitely believe we should stop error in our lives, but calling it idolatry means we are excluding them from the Kingdom of God. If we exclude people for the image of a tree, then we need to exclude ourselves for any image we might have as well. Thank you again for your comment.
@@answerethamatter4469 maybe you're right, a tree in a living room alone is not idolatry. But what about the reason why people put up a xmas tree up there in the 1st place? Isn't celebrating xmas taking up the pagan ways of the people around them instead of YHWH? Aren't people ignoring the Scriptural Feasts and Sabbaths of YHVH and instead observing the man-made holidays of the world? So I guess I'm thinking that while a pine tree in a living room alone is not an idol, the governments or corporations behind the tradition is?
Hi again and thank you for your comments. I completely agree, Christmas is a pagan holiday and should not be celebrated. I just want to distinguish between idolatry and error. Idolatry keeps someone from the Kingdom of God (Gal. 5:19-21), but error does not (Acts 17:30). Error means someone might be following God with all their heart, but don’t have the entire truth. To be honest, we are all in error, but in different ways. I did Christmas and Easter for sixteen years as a believer. I did not know they were pagan. As I look back I am sure that God was going to correct me on judgment day, but I do not believe it kept me from the Kingdom. When I learned they were pagan I started a process of repentance. It took years before I finally stopped Christmas and Easter because I had to study to learn the truth. That sometimes takes time. Even though governments and corporations might be behind our holidays, they are not required and a contract of service is not there. Anyone can stop Christmas and Easter without any concern of government retaliation. This was not true with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. They were asked to consent to a contract of service to the Babylonian gods (Dan. 3:12, 18). Our government does not mandate the celebration of any holiday, which I believe is required for idolatry. If they did require it and we submitted to that by a contract of service, then it might be idolatry. YHVH commanded us “After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein you dwelt, shall you not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall you not do: neither shall you walk in their ordinances. You shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I am YHVH your God. You shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am YHVH” (Lev. 18”3-5). This is not religion, it is government. We are not to consent to follow after other nations laws. Thank you again for your comments and be blessed.
@@answerethamatter4469 I agree that error and idolatry come from different places and the consequences are different and I should be very careful not to confuse one with the other. I believe most people who celebrate Christmas do it out of error or ignorance and not as an act of rebellion. However what are we to do with people who learn that it's not an acceptable way of worshipping Him but because their family and coworkers continue to make it a thing they just go along? I don't know if I just finally started paying attention to it but it seems like more and more people are pointing out the pagan origins in holidays as compared to the Holy Feasts and Sabbaths in Scripture. I think believers should observe the Feasts and Sabbaths because we are told in Scripture that when He returns we will get together and observe from new moon to new moon and from Sabbath to Sabbath. We might as well observe them and learn how to feast on them Feast days and rest on them rest days! He's historically done some truly awesome stuff on His Holy Feast days and Sabbaths. If He returns on let's just say The Feast of Trumpets. I would like to be observing the Feast of Trumpets on that final Feast of Trumpets that he returns on. I would like to maybe even be blowing a shofar when suddenly His overpowering trumpet blast totally brings all to silence and we are called Home to be with Him forevermore!
That is a great question. I wish I had a great answer. I completely agree with what you said. Believers are to keep all the commandments of God (Matt. 5:17-19). I think as believers we should respond to each person as best fits their situation. Galatians 6:1 says, “Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, you which are spiritual, restore such a one in the spirit of meekness; considering yourself, lest you also be tempted.” This should be our attitude towards each other. We should always treat our brothers in this manner. As we share with them the commandments of God we should be gracious as they learn. It is not possible to realize we should keep God’s commandments today, and tomorrow be keeping all of them. It is a process that takes a life time. When I speak to someone I typically focus on keeping God’s Holy days, not stopping pagan holidays. When someone starts keeping God’s Holy Days they will start to realize how great they are and how much they teach you truth. I think once people start keeping God’s Holy Days they will start to move away from pagan holidays. We should be patient with them. The opposite is true if we come with condemnation. We need to share this truth without condemnation. After all, that is how our Messiah handled it. When He spoke to others it was always the “truth in love” (Eph. 4:15). The only exception was with the ruling leaders who were trying to corrupt the people. This is probably the only time we should be more aggressive. When someone is purposely speaking against God’s Law in a mocking way then we might be more aggressive. Proverbs 19:25 says, “Smite a scorner, and the simple will beware: and reprove one that has understanding, and he will understand knowledge.” This is exactly what our Messiah did. Thank you again.
No brother, it doesn't simply say don't bow down or worship them- it says don't make them at all. There's also has a verse that says cursed is the man that makes a graven image Deuteronomy 27:15 . So its not only talking about pagan idolatry its talking about making the statue. So, having decorations/ statues of any living thing like a human/animal is prohibited- whether its worshipped or not.
Hi Eddiee, thank you for your comment. I think our difference of opinion here is based on our interpretation methods. If you base your interpretation of graven images only on Deuteronomy 27:15, then your interpretation is correct. However, there are several other verses that help us define graven images. When you put them all together it is clear that graven images are served. Almost every verse referring to graven images mentions worshipping them (which means bowing in obedience) or service to them. Deuteronomy 27:15 is part of the blessings and curses of the law. The topics mentioned in this chapter are all brief and in no way should be taken as the whole of the subject. Deuteronomy 27:15 says, “Cursed be the man that makes any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and puts it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen.” Since most other verses regarding graven images require service and worship, it should be assumed that graven images here require service as well. This is the way language works. An example today might be in regards to voting. I could say, “lets vote this Tuesday.” It is assumed that those voting are citizens and registered to vote, even though I did not mention that. We do this with language every day, but for some reason we avoid this when studying the scripture.
This is why I teach that the Bible is a Law Book. It is written in legal code (Is. 28:9-13). We should study the scripture like a lawyer preparing for trial. There is a maxim of law that says, ““Constructions that would lead to absurd or unreasonably harsh results are disfavored.” (Adams Stephens, Listing the Canons of Construction.) It would be “absurd” and “unreasonably harsh” to think that God is offended by a father putting up a picture of their family on their wall. However, based on only Deuteronomy 27:15 this would be sin with a graven image. If this were the interpretation then we all need to remove all our decorations and only have plain walls in our homes. However, an image or picture on my wall is not served, and I do not bow down and worship them. Service requires a contract. I think we should be careful not to paint God in this manner. When we tell people their decorations in their homes are graven images this makes God look very unreasonable. Thank you again for your comment.
I agree with you statues of dogs that seems ridiculous and going out and spreading to people this wrong information how dare
Also he said the governor's and presidents are the Gods of this country you want to believe this backwards thinking man who is serving somebody strange
Thank you for explaining a different interpretation of this. The graven imagery issue has been a major point of contention for me for decades, if only because I think a lot about art and so can better work through the philosophical implications and arguments about it (the other teachings aren't so close to my expertise lol). it's always bothered me, it's one of the reasons i'm not a christian, but this is an interesting take. thank you
Hi Danto’s Inferne, thank you for your comment. I used to have a similar contention. It was this contention that caused me to really study it out. It never made sense to me that God was offended by art of His own creation, especially since He commanded images to be made, but when you look at it the way I teach it makes more sense. God does not like it when government oppresses the people. Graven images are one way they do just that. They take ownership of the people’s property, businesses, etc. through their graven image, or corporations.
On a side note, much of Christianity does not represent the Bible well. Don’t worry about the name one calls themselves, but the Bible is God’s word without any doubt. Follow YHVH through His Messiah, not Christianity. That is where the truth lies. I don’t call myself a Christian either, but if someone else does I don’t object to it. I just avoid being connected to a name that can mean so many different things. Thank you again for your comment.
@@answerethamatter4469 that's beautiful! it definitely makes more sense than the 'common' interpretations of the 2nd. it's particularly eerie given how well that perspective lines up with other 'conspiracy theories' regarding satanic influences within state/earthly power, ideas about an 'anti-christ system' rather than a specific person, and other teachings in the bible. it seems much more in line with the 'real' philosophy of yahweh that i've been slowly learning about.
thank you very much for sharing your perspective and study on it. it's valuable and inspiring work that helps people find their way to the truth!
Your interpretation of cooperation is spot on. In revelation, it describes the 10 kingdoms (the Beast) as a type of corporation. The mark of the Beast (a seal of sovereignty) would be the idol.
The mark of the beast was Caesar worship. The Christians had to swear their allegiance to the Caesars (who thought they were gods) otherwise the Christians could not buy or sell. Look for modern day Caesars today to look for future fulfillment.
Isaiah 2:8
“Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made:”
A graven image is an image with features.
Exodus 20:4
“Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:”
Why this doesn’t have more like, idk…..
I would say that Zmas trees, white jzus images and 501c3 under the authority of the american govt are also included
Hi Stacey, thanks for your comment. Although I am not necessarily in favor of Xmas trees or Jesus images, I would not classify them as graven images because I am aware of no contract associated with them. I am not contracted to celebrate Christmas or have a Christmas tree. It does not make them right, just not a graven image. 501c3 does have a contract involved. It takes away your property rights in whatever you have it for (church, non-profit, business, etc.). It is now the governments property, and they make the rules. God's Law is the "perfect law of liberty" (James 1:25). Incorporation takes away that liberty, but a xmas tree does not. I can remove my xmas tree anytime I want. To remove a corporation, you have to follow their rules to do so. This gives government too much power over a person's business and creates much less freedom in the land. Thank you again for your comment.
“or any likeness of that which is in the shamayim above” That means anything.
You may me change my thinking on incorporation. I thought incorporation was a good think. It usually brings more order and utilities to a city. But I suppose it depends on the leaders and citizens living there.
And it’s the disguise of communism.
Wow unto them that call good, “evil” and evil, “good.”
Is the Celtic cross printed on the cover of Holman bible considered a graven image?
Hi Yi-Ming Shao, thank you for your comment. I do not think the Celtic cross printed on a bible would be considered a graven image. In my opinion, a graven image requires a contract to submit to something contrary to God's Law. Putting an image on something is not a graven image unless it requires service to that image. Thank you again for your comment.
@@answerethamatter4469
Is an icon inside an Eastern Orthodox Church a graven image? There was the iconoclasm in the 8th century when they were destroyed but icons quickly came back again. Is it right or wrong to venerate Christ and the Saints on an icon in a church.
Greetings ,
Should one have Angel images displayed in their home ? Would these be considered graven images . The Bible does say don’t make anything liken into what’s in heaven ...
Hi Ciera, thank you for your comment.
I do not think images are wrong unless there is a contract associated with it. Graven images are served by contract. That is the point to the second commandment. The second part of the graven image commandment says, “Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them” (Ex. 20:5). To serve something requires a contract associated with the image, which is what my teaching was about. Having an image of an angel is not a graven image. However, it is definitely possible to put too much emphasis on an image. This should be avoided. Too often we tend to focus on an image such as a cross or an angel to focus our worship on. God is a person and He wants us to speak to Him as a person, not an image. I do not think having an image is wrong, but I would make sure it is not emphasized too much.
Thank you again for your comment and be blessed.
@@answerethamatter4469 thank you for your response !
@@cieradavis4807 Exodus 20:4~ “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth” Pick the Word over man.
Hi Kev Lo, thank you for your comments. This is a very narrow view of the second commandment. Unless we are willing to remove almost all decorations in our homes then we are all guilty of the second commandment. The “likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath” would pretty much disqualify every image imaginable. The entirety of scripture shows the need to serve the graven image (Psalms 97:7). Unless someone is contracted to serve that image, they are not guilty of the second commandment. I do not think this is the meaning of the second commandment.
@@answerethamatter4469 he conveniently left out the verse that specified creating graven images for the purpose of BOWING DOWN and SERVING (A.K.A. Worshipping) the image themselves
Are my action figures considered graven images?
Hi Spider - Keith, thank you for your comment. I do not think action figures are graven images. Graven images are served. Psalms 97:7 says, “Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols.” Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego agree when they said, “be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy god” (Dan. 3:18). This was in reference to the statute of gold that Nebuchadnezzar set up. Graven images are served. This requires a contract. Unless you have a contract to serve your action figures then they are not graven images.
With that said, someone can put so much emphasis on a hobby that it might distract them from God’s will in their life, but this is different than a graven image. I used to spend so much time with sports that it kept me from many things that I should have been doing instead. This was not good, but also not a graven image. We should keep our hobbies in check and not have them dominate our time so we can better serve God. Only you know if you spend too much time with action figures. If you think you are, then I would make every effort to balance your time better.
Thank you again for your comment and be blessed.
Yes brother, they are graven images. They have the likeness of humankind. Exodus 20:4~ “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth”
Hi Kev Lo, thank you for your comments. It is always important to take all of scripture into context when considering any commandment. For example, God Himself commanded that two cherubim (angels) be placed over the ark of the covenant (Ex. 25:18). This would make the entire nation of Israel guilty of idolatry with a graven image. However, we know this is not true, especially since God endorsed it. When you take the entirety of scripture into context it is clear that for an image to qualify as a graven image under the second commandment the image must be served by contract. This is clear by the examples in scripture. The scriptures mentioned in my comment above demonstrate this. I would not want to guilt someone who has an image in their house by claiming they are breaking the second commandment. I have two statues of Labrador retriever dogs in my living room, but I am not contracted to serve them. They are not a violation of the second commandment and I do not have any guilt for having them. They only show that I like Labrador Retriever dogs. The “likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath” would pretty much disqualify every image imaginable and would make everyone guilty. It would require everyone to remove almost all decorations in their homes. I do not think this is the meaning of the second commandment.
@@kevlo8296 would you consider vegan meat a graven image?
@@answerethamatter4469you can argue that unless God commands it, you can't make any graven images at all. God commanded for cherubims to be built so it's okay, anything else isn't.
Is buddha a graven image I mean hes not a god my family has a buddha statue we dont worship him but we respect his teachings i told her many times to get rid of it but she didnt so do i leave or.
Hi Demonslayer, thank you for your comment. My understanding is that graven images are served by a contract with the ruler/god of that graven image. There is no contract with a buddha statue that I am aware of. I would not consider it a graven image for that reason, however, that does not make it the best decision for today. It would most likely be a stumbling block for many believers. For that reason, I would probably avoid displaying it if possible. This is a principle that the Apostle Paul mentioned to the Corinthians. Sometimes we have to make decisions for the sake of others, even if it would not be sin otherwise (1 Cor. 8:13).
Another example might be alcohol. My wife and I do not drink alcohol much, but sometimes when we cook alcohol is required in the food we are preparing. When we are hosting a gathering, we always remove any signs of alcohol because some believers might be offended. Maybe they had a bad history with alcohol, and they struggle with it now. For whatever reason, a mature believer should always put the other believer ahead of themselves. I hope this helps answer your question and thank you again for your comment and for watching my videos.
@@answerethamatter4469 Yeah I suppose well we dont believe or worship buddha we just respect his teachings now me id never put him above the Most High. Besides buddha isnt a god anyway.
I don't know much about Buddha's teachings, but I do not think it is a graven image. I would just be cautious not to stumble a fellow believer. I pray YHVH gives you wisdom in your decision.
@@answerethamatter4469 FYI buddha teaches about inner peace and meditation. he's not a god like odin or zues, thor etc. he's a teacher like lao tzu and confucius. I don't intend to stumble a brother or sister in Christ. Just a bit confused.
@@demonslayer7537there should be no respect for another entity that claims to be a god in your home and you serve the Most High. The mixing of doctrine is not of God and is hindering your full relationship with Christ. The Holy Bible Is all you need in order to walk this life out.. get an exegesis, a Bible translator, and ask God for revelation of His Word to understand more of what is being said. God is the creator of peace and true meditation- Matthew 6:24 😊
Is the mona lisa statue an idol or not?
Hello. Thank you for your comment. I do not think the Mona Lisa is an idol. Graven images and idols are served by contract. If there is no contract associated with the image then it is not a graven image or an idol. Of course, people can place too much emphasis on images and this is not good, but this is not what is meant by a graven image or an idol.
Thank you again and be blessed.
Yes it is an idol, just like the Statue of Liberty. These images have captivated us and we’re too blind to see it. Exodus 20:4~ “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth”
Hi Kev Lo, thank you for your comments. I do not think the Statue of Liberty is a graven image. Solomon’s Temple had Pillars named Jachin and Boaz which God Himself endorsed (1 Kings 7:21). The Molten Sea had twelve statues of oxen holding it up (1 Kings 7:23-25). The second commandment does not disallow all images in heaven and earth, but only those images that we serve (Psalms 97:7). This requires a contract that we consent to. If the Statue of Liberty is a graven image, then it is a graven image for the entire nation, which would include all citizens. I do not think this is the meaning of the second commandment.
@@answerethamatter4469 "Which God endorsed" are the key words. The book of revelations talks about that statue.
Hi Eddiiee, thank you for your comment. There is a logical fallacy in this interpretation. If all images are graven images, and God endorsed some, then God is endorsing graven images. This makes God an idolater. Based on this interpretation we can have pillars like Boaz and Jachin in our homes. We can also have Cherubim statues as well, but no other images. There were several other images in the Temple that God did not specifically endorse. Would these be graven images as well? If this were true then God is endorsing sin. This would make God Himself an idolater. I think it makes more sense to just accept the whole of scripture which says graven images are served. If there is no contract of service then it is not a graven image. The Brazen Serpent is a good example. This serpent was a good thing at first, but when Israel started worshipping it, it became sin and Hezekiah removed it (2 Kings 18:4). This shows that images by themselves are not bad until we decide to worship them. Thank you again for your comment.
Please don't correct this man. The purpose of the image is for worship and we all know it
This guy has no idea what he's talking about
video games are an idol its vain beautiful graphics and useless waste of time...i mean i could be using the time to learn spanish and latin instead.
Hi Norm, thank you for the comment. I do not think video games are an idol since there is no contract of service involved. However, they can be very time consuming and a big distract from the way God wants us to live our lives. If I had a strong video game habit I would take steps to get that under control before it became addictive. Thanks again for the comment.
What about pledging allegiance to the flag...with your hand over your heart ...understanding that the United States of America is a corporation ? I'm now concerned about doing that 😳
I agree with you. I have no problem honoring our flag, but pledging allegiance to it seems to go against the scripture. I always stand in honor of our flag, but do not say the pledge. The scripture teaches not to become surety for anyone (Prov. 17:18) and Jesus said not to swear an oath at all (Matt. 5:34-36). I agree with the words of the pledge, but I don't think pledging these words is in accordance with the scripture. Thank you again for your comment.
@@answerethamatter4469 Thank you so much for replying,I enjoyed your study...I saw you on Rood Awakening Saturday night ,I appreciate your research and perspective...it makes sense
so an image of jesus is not idolatry because of the meaning behind the image being served is not wrong.
Hi Norm, thanks for the comment. I do not think an image of Jesus is idolatry. Idolatry in the Bible requires service, which has a contract involved. Having an image of Jesus is not a graven image. However, it is definitely possible to put too much emphasis on an image. This should be avoided. Too often we tend to focus on an image such as a cross or Jesus to focus our worship on. God is a person and He wants us to speak to Him as a person, not an image. I use images in all my presentations because they help clarify things, but that does not make them idolatry. Of course, an obsessive interest in images is not a good thing. We should never put too much emphasis on an image, but that does not make it idolatry. It is just a bad habit that might distract us from what God wants our life to be. Thank you again for your comment.
Don't trust men as The Torah says Do Not add. Christ, the Only expert told some they didn't know Scripture.
Verses >> II Peter 1:20 KJV (Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.) Psalms 118:8-9 KJV 🙏🙏
Hi Doug. Thank you again for your comment. I am not exactly sure what you are saying, but I agree that we should not add to or take away from God’s Law. However, it is very important to take all of scripture into context when studying any topic. What I think most are missing regarding graven images is the contract to serve them. A servant is someone who is bound by contract to a term of service to someone else. If you take into consideration every verse regarding graven images I think this is what you will come up with. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego knew this when they said “we will not serve your gods” (Dan. 3:18). This comes from Psalms 97:7 which says, “Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols.” There is a contract of service with graven images. Other images might be harmful as well, but they are not a graven image unless there is a contract of service. Remember, God Himself commanded that Israel use images from time to time. For example, God commanded that two cherubim (angels) be placed over the ark of the covenant (Ex. 25:18). These are images from heaven, but there is no contract of service to them. This is why they were okay. Thank you again for your comment.
Yes it is- that's actually the main definition of idolatry; a carved image that "represents" God.
Hi Eddiee, thank you for your comment. You are right. The main definition is a carved image that represents a god. However, this is not the entire definition. The definition also includes a contract of service and worship (Ex. 20:4-5). We need to take all of scripture in context to get the full definition. Thank you again for your comment.
that's exactly what a xmas tree is, it's a lie...a tree in a living room?
Hi Luis G, thank you for your comment.
I know my understanding of idolatry does not fit the norm, but it will solve many bible difficulties. Just for clarification, I am not a fan of Christmas or Christmas trees, but I do not think this is idolatry. A tree in a living room might be a lie, but it is not idolatry. Any image we have is technically a lie because it is not the real thing. If this were the standard then any image we have is idolatry. This would mean everyone needs to remove all decorations from their homes because all images are from “heaven above” and the “earth beneath” (Ex. 20:4) No pictures of nature, buildings, etc. would be allowed. However, God Himself commanded images in His house (Ex. 25:18, Heb. 9:5). A tree in a living room is no different than a plant in a living room. Neither a tree nor a plant naturally belongs inside, but for decoration purposes we sometimes bring them inside. Bringing a tree or a plant inside for religious purposes does not make sense either, but this is not what the Bible means by idolatry. I would consider this error, but not idolatry. Remember, idolatry keeps you from inheriting the Kingdom of God (Gal. 5:19-21). This would mean that everyone who has an image is disqualified from the Kingdom of God. I do not think this is what is meant. If you take the entire commandment into consideration then we get the answer.
“Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I YHVH thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; and shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments” (Ex. 20:4-6). The point to this commandment is that we are not to make images that we “bow down” to or “serve.” The word for “bow down” is shâchâh and means “to depress, that is, prostrate, especially reflexively in homage to royalty or God (Strong’s H7812). This means we are submitting to an authority in our lives which is contrary to God and against the first commandment. The word for serve is ‛âbad and means “to work; by implication to serve, enslave, keep in bondage, be bondmen, bond-service” (Strong’s H5647). This implies a commitment by contract and we now “serve” that authority. Christmas and Christmas trees are error, but not idolatry because there is no contract to actually serve another authority. I definitely believe we should stop error in our lives, but calling it idolatry means we are excluding them from the Kingdom of God. If we exclude people for the image of a tree, then we need to exclude ourselves for any image we might have as well. Thank you again for your comment.
@@answerethamatter4469 maybe you're right, a tree in a living room alone is not idolatry. But what about the reason why people put up a xmas tree up there in the 1st place? Isn't celebrating xmas taking up the pagan ways of the people around them instead of YHWH? Aren't people ignoring the Scriptural Feasts and Sabbaths of YHVH and instead observing the man-made holidays of the world?
So I guess I'm thinking that while a pine tree in a living room alone is not an idol, the governments or corporations behind the tradition is?
Hi again and thank you for your comments. I completely agree, Christmas is a pagan holiday and should not be celebrated. I just want to distinguish between idolatry and error. Idolatry keeps someone from the Kingdom of God (Gal. 5:19-21), but error does not (Acts 17:30). Error means someone might be following God with all their heart, but don’t have the entire truth. To be honest, we are all in error, but in different ways. I did Christmas and Easter for sixteen years as a believer. I did not know they were pagan. As I look back I am sure that God was going to correct me on judgment day, but I do not believe it kept me from the Kingdom. When I learned they were pagan I started a process of repentance. It took years before I finally stopped Christmas and Easter because I had to study to learn the truth. That sometimes takes time.
Even though governments and corporations might be behind our holidays, they are not required and a contract of service is not there. Anyone can stop Christmas and Easter without any concern of government retaliation. This was not true with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. They were asked to consent to a contract of service to the Babylonian gods (Dan. 3:12, 18). Our government does not mandate the celebration of any holiday, which I believe is required for idolatry. If they did require it and we submitted to that by a contract of service, then it might be idolatry. YHVH commanded us “After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein you dwelt, shall you not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall you not do: neither shall you walk in their ordinances. You shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I am YHVH your God. You shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am YHVH” (Lev. 18”3-5). This is not religion, it is government. We are not to consent to follow after other nations laws.
Thank you again for your comments and be blessed.
@@answerethamatter4469 I agree that error and idolatry come from different places and the consequences are different and I should be very careful not to confuse one with the other. I believe most people who celebrate Christmas do it out of error or ignorance and not as an act of rebellion.
However what are we to do with people who learn that it's not an acceptable way of worshipping Him but because their family and coworkers continue to make it a thing they just go along? I don't know if I just finally started paying attention to it but it seems like more and more people are pointing out the pagan origins in holidays as compared to the Holy Feasts and Sabbaths in Scripture.
I think believers should observe the Feasts and Sabbaths because we are told in Scripture that when He returns we will get together and observe from new moon to new moon and from Sabbath to Sabbath. We might as well observe them and learn how to feast on them Feast days and rest on them rest days! He's historically done some truly awesome stuff on His Holy Feast days and Sabbaths. If He returns on let's just say The Feast of Trumpets. I would like to be observing the Feast of Trumpets on that final Feast of Trumpets that he returns on. I would like to maybe even be blowing a shofar when suddenly His overpowering trumpet blast totally brings all to silence and we are called Home to be with Him forevermore!
That is a great question. I wish I had a great answer. I completely agree with what you said. Believers are to keep all the commandments of God (Matt. 5:17-19). I think as believers we should respond to each person as best fits their situation. Galatians 6:1 says, “Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, you which are spiritual, restore such a one in the spirit of meekness; considering yourself, lest you also be tempted.” This should be our attitude towards each other. We should always treat our brothers in this manner. As we share with them the commandments of God we should be gracious as they learn. It is not possible to realize we should keep God’s commandments today, and tomorrow be keeping all of them. It is a process that takes a life time. When I speak to someone I typically focus on keeping God’s Holy days, not stopping pagan holidays. When someone starts keeping God’s Holy Days they will start to realize how great they are and how much they teach you truth. I think once people start keeping God’s Holy Days they will start to move away from pagan holidays. We should be patient with them. The opposite is true if we come with condemnation. We need to share this truth without condemnation. After all, that is how our Messiah handled it. When He spoke to others it was always the “truth in love” (Eph. 4:15). The only exception was with the ruling leaders who were trying to corrupt the people. This is probably the only time we should be more aggressive. When someone is purposely speaking against God’s Law in a mocking way then we might be more aggressive. Proverbs 19:25 says, “Smite a scorner, and the simple will beware: and reprove one that has understanding, and he will understand knowledge.” This is exactly what our Messiah did. Thank you again.
I think this guy is wrong two statues of dogs in his house get outta here dude