DIsclaimer: The reason behind this video was only to try to alleviate the negativity towards Greg. I apologize if I did not comunicate that in a better manner. I now understand that it was foolish to think that I wouldn't piss some people off. It's perfectly fine to disagree, however, I had to filter some comments due to the insults, I'm not a "Greg Land apologist", as stated by some. I just want people to be nicer to eachother. Thank you for taking the time to either watch or share your opinion!
TBH I've always liked Greg Land's art. I just wish he wouldn't use the same reference images over and over again, but at least he mostly uses photos as references intead of swiping other artists' work like some artists do.
Comic interior artists have to create so much art under editorial scrutiny and with such brutal deadlines (especially in eras before digital art) that I don't blame anyone for tracing or using other forms of heavy reference. It's not like they photocopied the model onto the page.
You make a lot of fair points. I think it's important, as the saying goes: " to be able to separate the art from artist". Usually that means appreciating GOOD art (including music, movies, etc.) even though it was made by an apparently BAD person, but I think it works the other way too: not making moral judgments about an artist just because their art is bad. But... in my opinion, Greg Land's art IS bad. It's not just that tracing is lazy, but SO MUCH of his work appears traced, and he uses a lot of the same images MULTIPLE times, making it even lazier. The facial expressions and body language he chooses are often incongruent with the tone of a scene. And I'm all for sexy characters, but the ubiquitous "NSFW" faces are immersion-breaking, to say the least. Obviously Land actually CAN draw without tracing, but he's developed a workflow process that is much faster, enabling him to meet deadlines and in turn get more work. I just think there's very little artistic merit in what he does. If we're going to accept that, I see a slippery slope to accepting AI-generated art as "legitimate", because an "artist" had to train it, give it certain prompts, etc. In summary, Greg Land's ART may be bad, but that doesn't justify mistreating him as a PERSON.
First of all, Thank you for the detailed response, and for being respectful. Like you already mentioned, it's perfectly acceptable to dislike someone's work, or even their ethic, but using that as an excuse to constantly throw personal attacks, seems excesive. Not to mention that it makes those people look worse than him, by comparison. So everyone loses from those regular scenarios.
Honestly same thought. Greg Land gets so much hate because it’s so obvious. All the examples here minus the unnamed artist, Con guy, and the AI artist. There examples are subtle thus why it took a long time for them to get caught. But Greg Land you can tell just by looking at it, the majority of it is traced. Especially amongst his female characters who designs can change rapidly even in same page
Yes! and for the record: I'm not saying that people should hate the others too, I'm just saying maybe we shouldn't be so harsh on them.. That's all. Thank you!
Batman was created from pure and complete plagiarism. Artists will copy things from different origins or other artists? They've been doing it since the comic book existed, and they will continue.
I personally always loved Greg Langs version of Mr Fantastic from Ultimate Fantastic Four, it was the sexiest Reed Richards I ever saw in the comics before and since.
You know something.. You are absolutely right! I completely forgot about the men he draws. Both Reed and Nightwing are indeed some of the most attarctive versions out there. Thank you for the reminder!
@@anyalizedThat version of Reed is very cute, but I personally prefer the mature version of Reed from Jonathan Hickman's run. I remember at one point they all switched to short sleeved uniforms that made his biceps look huge. 💪🏻 He wasn't wearing glasses and was very classically handsome. Plus I really liked the scruff they gave him. 🧔
Okay, now, I have seen that if you are a woman or minority in any sort of industry, people will call you nasty buzzwords if you as so much not like what they do, which is unfair. Everyone should be held accountable for their actions, regardless of their race or sex.
It's actually common with new artists when they finally break in the industry. Usually because of time restraints but eventually they get used to the workload, get better and go on their own path (That is, if they haven't been dropped). As a matter of fact, I'm surprised you missed Jae Lee. However I'll admit it, I've done it with some earlier comic works because the pose I was trying to pull off wasn't working until I found the pose and angle in a comic/manga. A way of learning...
I didn't know Jae Lee had done it as well, but I searched after reading your comment and yes, there's a lot of influence from Beachum, Texeira and Bisley. And you're right, imitating those we admire is a good way of learning!
I hope there'd be a response video for this but I can help explain with the best of my abilities on why people have issues with Greg Land. - now with the use of NSFW photo references, I guess to some it takes them out of the content they read but people tend to be prudish depending on who they are - His visual storytelling is off, stiff and repetitive where the expression that he probably swiped doesn't fit with the dialogue. (See the infamous final page of ultimate fantastic four #23 where Sue's expression doesn't fit with the shock of the surprise return of her mother) - While Swiping isn't entirely a bad thing, it's the amount that is used to the point where characters will look very inconsistent from panel to panel or page to page where in one page a Character will have curly hair but in the next will have a very different hair or even a face. His consistency is flawed there's a video on the critique of Greg's work done by Comic Tropes that elaborate on why Land's sequential storytelling has problems th-cam.com/video/bshNOtERfVI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Pd28cTJI_Mjaf3HH
Thank you very much for taking the time to respond, especially in such depth. All three examples you provided are perfectly understandable and reasonable. The incosistency from panel to panel, is indeed an area where he needs to work on, heavily. As for the usage of adult content for his work.. That is something I'm not even sure how I feel about
Great video and you make great points i met land at a convention very codial had some art supplies with him to do sketches i told him i liked his automobiles especially the mercury Marquis that he did and that he should give George Perez tips on drawing cars ..... Lol,he had pages for sale but i passed thought they were a little pricey , but yeah they seems to be a who-you-are-and-not-what-you-do dynamic at work here .....
You're the first person in the comments to have met him in person, so thank you for sharing your experience with him! I'm glad to know he's not hostile. Thank you very much!
Unpopular opinion here: after watching this video, now I want to do what Greg Land did, and only because it seems a lot of fun. No artistic or professional intent here, just taking a break doing something fun.
I wouldn't mind putting in my own two cents trying to explain this whole debacle, but it may dive into some politics, hence I think I should refrain for the sake of not getting into a fight.
Whichever makes you feel best. I would hope people could debate peacefully, but realistically that never happens. Thank you for sharing your thoughs anyways!
I laugh at anyone who traces Adam Hughes, since he traces too! Adam defends himself by claiming to be a "recreationist". That he recreates what he sees in photos. Adam got where he is by tracing penthouse and playboy pics.
Wow, I didn't know the hate on Greg Land had gotten to that point of vitriol. I remember when I first heard about this, a lot of concern was that the more his art got photo realistic, the more stiff his art started looking, and the photo references would change for the same character's face, creating a disconnect to the reader. So yeah, Greg definitely doesn't deserve the people wishing him dead, no one does.
It saddly has :( and look, I understand peoples concern regarding his art, that's understandable.. But trying to push someone over the edge, hating and bullying someone unceasingly simply cannot be justified.
I don't think that people want Greg Land to be exiled from the comic book industry or for him to die, I don't think people attack him with a clear goal in their maind, but something that Greg Land could do to stop all the hate is to be better; but he insists on keeping his regular output of work. Contrary to the other examples that you pointed out, Greg Land hasn't done better, and as you have seen in your investigation, they have kept good faith and work thanks to them improving their art and stop using sneaky tricks to get the job done. Those who don't want to do better keep getting backlash and criticism (Arthur Suydman will never have the same profile he once had) or get their reputation destroyed. The oddball here is Greg Land, he keeps doing the same morally dubious stuff and weirdly enough he hasn't faced any professional consecuence as the examples you cited. Greg Land is not an underdog, he has been a long standing figure in the industry. I undestand that the hate thrown at him can be excesive but he still has a stable job,and it would seem that a solid fanbase that purchase his books. Portraying him as a constant victim of illogical vitriol is incorrect when the criticism to his persona comes from his lack of skills in a field that really values such skills. And also, implying that Jones and Cruz get a free pass because she is an atractive woman and he is latino is an entire can of worms I'm not gonna touch.
Fair enough. Yes, you're right, he did bring this onto himself, and yes, he hasn't changed his ways, but I'm not sure that's reason enough to throw that much anger towards someone. Also, I did state in the video (at minute 17:15) that he is not a "victim" of any kind, and in fact is a grown man, completely sane and aware of his behavior.. But even then, I'm sorry, it feels wrong to see this much backlash against what feels mostly him. Just open twitter or instagram, or any social media and search his name. It's daunting. Also, the only reason why I made this video, is because I 'm sorry, but I feel bad for this man, despite his errors, he's still and older man. I would love it if people could tease him in a light hearted way, or with humor, or could focus on enjoying what was once supposed to be light hearted entertainment. And thank you for not insulting or using cuss words to make your point across. I've had to filter comments for the very first time as a result of this video.
A lot of comic fans are touched. There is also a lot of people who like to feel like they fit in with the current thing. Like this current ai witch hunt I have a feeling the amount of people using ai is far more prevalent and it’s more just a way for the industry to attack people they find undesirable.
Thank you for another great video I know who he is and I love his artwork not that much but I still like it no nonetheless. People should be judged equally not favorably
Okay, if I were to guess as to why Greg gets all the hate, it's because he makes it plainly obvious that he is tracing whereas others don't. Greg could be considered the poster child for trace artists. But I wouldn't know, I haven't picked up a modern comic book outside of Ultinate Spider-Man for years.
I think the huge hate towards Greg Land's trace is the reference he supposedly uses, and its very odd since when drawing comic's, sex appeal helps sales the comics to either gender. But for some reason, it's just that vocal part that speaks loudly of finding it disgusting that an artist would essentially use adult films for reference. Compare to the other's that were mention, none of them has been part of that sort of controversy compare to Greg, only simply tracing other artists or copying it all together. Because of that, they can kind of just get away scott free. It's sad, but people simply would judge the more weirder part then the more normal part. While I'm not a huge fan of some of Greg's work, he has so many other moments where his art shines, notably Ultimate fantastic four, the Nightwing solo run, and one of the X-men comic's he did like in the mid 2000's. Heck, he's one of those artist where his drawing, regardless of what, is recognizable and even still popular. And to be honest, if Greg were to come out and made clear note of some of his references came from adult films, its as you said, "Damn if you do, damn if you don't." He's already a punching bag for years, and he'll sadly be that way for a long time. Nothing can really be done besides pointing out that other artist does something similar like Greg, if not worse behind close doors. Another enjoyable video on your end. TH-cam algorithm really came through on this one.
Oh yes, and here is the thing, I'm not saying that using adult content as a base for comics aimed for a different target isn't an "odd" choice.. but the thing is, he has always admitted to using these types of refferences for his work. For example, I remember quite well, seeing him on Wizards "basic training" section, showing how he uses lingerie models as a base for his art. I just don't see a justification for hating on an old man, who is honest about what he does, and seems to be a nice individual. Regardless of whether we like his work or not. I'm sorry, but it feels wrong, and yes, you're right, nothing is going to change. In spanish we have a saying that goes "crea fama y echate a dormir", which translates to: "create fame and then rest", which implies that once you've become notorious for doing something, all left to do is rest, because it's unlikely someone can change people's perception on them.
I'm a huge fan of Alan Davis, and I remember reading an X-men comic years ago that David Mack had drawn that made me stop reading and go back to see if Davis had done a couple of guest pages because his style is unmistakable. Nope, Mack just yoinked some Davis art. It's tough, because comics is probably the most down and dirty mercenary form of mass media storytelling there is. Wally Wood was a legend, but he also realized they were making disposable stuff for kids. Whatever it took to make the deadline. Longevity as a work of art wasn't a concern back in the day. These days, I think it's incredibly poor form to swipe the art of another artist in this field unless you've asked first. Comics is a small industry, and people get reps fast. Rob Liefeld still has work despite being legendarily bad because he gets his work done on time and he's apparently a super nice guy. As for photos, that's less of an issue. Artists use photo reference all the time. Do all of them have to set up their own photoshoots like Alex Ross does? C'mon now. The issue with Land is that his art and expressions are so heavily traced and referenced they don't fit the storytelling. Land doesn't realize that some lady moaning in porn because of... well, god knows what has different bodily energy than a lady wailing in grief and pain.
Mack also used Alan Davis work as a base for some of his first Kabuki issues (I sprinkled some images of that throughout the video). But once again, Mack is one of the few who owns up to it and apologizes. Most either deny it, or simply don't care and move on. PS: Alan Davies is a Comicbook God
I like your voice and your style of video, im a pretty monotone person myself, but i think it might help if you talk a little faster! keeps people engaged, but its fair if you dont i mean i had to learn to talk faster myself lol
Thank you very much! I'll try to fasten the speed of the videos when I edit, because I can barely speak at all when recording.. it's very tensing.. especially when reading haha
I think what it is that Greg Land was an early internet cancel mob before there was a word for it. It used to be a magazine would create the mob but Land's mob was a creation of people still kicking around from the forums who created it. They never really got the scalp they wanted. He's also the least artistic of the referencers. Mack has all this smoke and mirrors to hide the swiping as do a lot of the other artists here. Land was banging out work to meet deadlines. Mike Deodato is just as bad as well but there's more smoke and mirrors involved. Most people in most industries understand that. You have influences and not everything is a plagarization but instead you accidentally pantsing yourself with what you like. None of it bothers me. It's not like they're on Moby Dick. It's the equivalent of brain off sitcom typically in American comics. The nature of the American comics industry incentivizies bad behavior because there is so few jobs and so little money. Most of the big names are stealing in general and being hypocrites on everything. It's not just artists. Alan Moore's ending to Watchmen is stolen from a Twilight Zone episode and even editor Len Wein has done interviews about it. Bendis with Secret Invasion was an equally hacky version of DC Millenium over a decade earlier. It's why the whole industry is so quick and vitrolic when pointing out theft cause they dont want to be called out themselves.
Yes! He became the scapegoat or punching bag of the comicbook industry, despite the fact that far too many have the same approach to art. I was this close to use Deodato for this video, after I discovered the Mena Suvari situation, but I'll use that for something more positive. By the way, thank you for being respectful with your response!
Minor correction, the episode ‘The Architects of Fear’ that you’re referring to about Watchmen wasn’t from The Twilight Zone. It was from The Outer Limits. Also as far I know, Len Wein didn’t think the ending was stolen from The Outer Limits, he just pointed out the similarities to Moore, who refused to change the ending but did have a reference to it when Dan and Laurie visit Sally. Len Wein quit his role as editor on the miniseries after the disagreement with Moore, believing Alan could write a better ending, but did write an Ozymandias series as a part of Before Watchmen, where the last issue has Adrian Veidt watching The Architects of Fear which would inspire his world peace scheme.
I think what really annoys me about greg is that he so obviously traces from nsfw material, intrinsically sexualizing characters who aren't even adults. He then uses this in art of people who get beaten and mutilated on the street, like he did when working on recent X-men comics. I dunno just seems wrong to me.
Whoah, I did not know that.. Using adult content for underage characters is wrong on so many levels. To a point where the beaten and mutilated part seems comedic in comparison..
So, that what you sound like. And you doing TH-cam now? ...Who would have thought. Lol Any who when it comes to artists like Greg Land ( who I think I have never pick up a comic drawn by him but know of him via meme) in the whole tracing shenanigans. Is more of the matter of how big are these artists especially on certain communities. Someone like me probably never heard of the authors you mentioned. So all of them is went over my head (tho I did heard about a Batman comic being AI generated though). But there is some big examples were there people did gave the artist just as even more hate than Land. Like over a decade ago the son of one of the KISS members produce a comic book but publisher have to cancel it due to the backlash of being plagiarized from several published manga, the most notable being Bleach, and from art communities such as DeviantArt. Or recently Butch Hartman who sell overpriced, low quality commissions only to find out they was traced by high quality fan art. Are there any videos of Greg Land drawing? I used to have a friend in DA who dealt with the similar BS too. Try making videos of her drawing prove it. Granted it did little.
I'm not entirely sure that's comparable. I know what Greg does is wrong, I've stated that multiple times. But Greg has been recieving nothing but hate for decades, while so many others do the same and walk scott free. Whenever the name "Greg land" pops up anywhere, it comes with nothing but attacks and insults as well as immediate backlash. It doesn't matter what he does. He could save someones life and people would still find a way to attack him. PS: I have no clue who you are, I'm sorry lol.
DIsclaimer: The reason behind this video was only to try to alleviate the negativity towards Greg.
I apologize if I did not comunicate that in a better manner.
I now understand that it was foolish to think that I wouldn't piss some people off.
It's perfectly fine to disagree, however, I had to filter some comments due to the insults,
I'm not a "Greg Land apologist", as stated by some. I just want people to be nicer to eachother.
Thank you for taking the time to either watch or share your opinion!
TBH I've always liked Greg Land's art. I just wish he wouldn't use the same reference images over and over again, but at least he mostly uses photos as references intead of swiping other artists' work like some artists do.
Comic interior artists have to create so much art under editorial scrutiny and with such brutal deadlines (especially in eras before digital art) that I don't blame anyone for tracing or using other forms of heavy reference. It's not like they photocopied the model onto the page.
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed this, felt like I was taking crazy pills.
You make a lot of fair points. I think it's important, as the saying goes: " to be able to separate the art from artist". Usually that means appreciating GOOD art (including music, movies, etc.) even though it was made by an apparently BAD person, but I think it works the other way too: not making moral judgments about an artist just because their art is bad.
But... in my opinion, Greg Land's art IS bad. It's not just that tracing is lazy, but SO MUCH of his work appears traced, and he uses a lot of the same images MULTIPLE times, making it even lazier. The facial expressions and body language he chooses are often incongruent with the tone of a scene. And I'm all for sexy characters, but the ubiquitous "NSFW" faces are immersion-breaking, to say the least.
Obviously Land actually CAN draw without tracing, but he's developed a workflow process that is much faster, enabling him to meet deadlines and in turn get more work. I just think there's very little artistic merit in what he does. If we're going to accept that, I see a slippery slope to accepting AI-generated art as "legitimate", because an "artist" had to train it, give it certain prompts, etc.
In summary, Greg Land's ART may be bad, but that doesn't justify mistreating him as a PERSON.
First of all, Thank you for the detailed response, and for being respectful. Like you already mentioned, it's perfectly acceptable to dislike someone's work, or even their ethic, but using that as an excuse to constantly throw personal attacks, seems excesive. Not to mention that it makes those people look worse than him, by comparison. So everyone loses from those regular scenarios.
Honestly same thought. Greg Land gets so much hate because it’s so obvious.
All the examples here minus the unnamed artist, Con guy, and the AI artist. There examples are subtle thus why it took a long time for them to get caught. But Greg Land you can tell just by looking at it, the majority of it is traced. Especially amongst his female characters who designs can change rapidly even in same page
Yeah, that hypocrisy is messed up. Weird how some get less backlash than others...
Yes! and for the record: I'm not saying that people should hate the others too, I'm just saying maybe we shouldn't be so harsh on them.. That's all. Thank you!
@@anyalized Oh yeah, I agree with that. I'm not that active of a comic reader, and even I know about the hate people like Greg and Bob Liefield get :(
Batman was created from pure and complete plagiarism. Artists will copy things from different origins or other artists? They've been doing it since the comic book existed, and they will continue.
talking about the shadow?
@@Enzo_Matrix92 Yeah, he is. Razorfist has done a video on it. Check it out.
I personally always loved Greg Langs version of Mr Fantastic from Ultimate Fantastic Four, it was the sexiest Reed Richards I ever saw in the comics before and since.
You know something.. You are absolutely right! I completely forgot about the men he draws. Both Reed and Nightwing are indeed some of the most attarctive versions out there. Thank you for the reminder!
@@anyalized and thank you for a great video.
@@anyalizedThat version of Reed is very cute, but I personally prefer the mature version of Reed from Jonathan Hickman's run. I remember at one point they all switched to short sleeved uniforms that made his biceps look huge. 💪🏻 He wasn't wearing glasses and was very classically handsome. Plus I really liked the scruff they gave him. 🧔
Is from Corn
Okay, now, I have seen that if you are a woman or minority in any sort of industry, people will call you nasty buzzwords if you as so much not like what they do, which is unfair.
Everyone should be held accountable for their actions, regardless of their race or sex.
Exactly!
Honestly? It's the AMOUNT of tracing. It's literally exponentially greater for him.
Fair enough, Thank you for sharing!
The *ENTIRE* root of the problem lies with the kids on Tumblr and their insane hyper echo chamber.
Your videos are amazing. New sub! Cant wait for more comic related videos 👌
Thank you very much! :)
Yeah I’ve always liked Greg Land, my art teacher always said “you’re only as good as your reference.”
It's actually common with new artists when they finally break in the industry. Usually because of time restraints but eventually they get used to the workload, get better and go on their own path (That is, if they haven't been dropped).
As a matter of fact, I'm surprised you missed Jae Lee.
However I'll admit it, I've done it with some earlier comic works because the pose I was trying to pull off wasn't working until I found the pose and angle in a comic/manga. A way of learning...
I didn't know Jae Lee had done it as well, but I searched after reading your comment and yes, there's a lot of influence from Beachum, Texeira and Bisley. And you're right, imitating those we admire is a good way of learning!
Artist use references! We need references to make the art better. People take that way too seriously apparently.
Very True!
Educate yourself on what a swipe is. It is not a "reference."
I hope there'd be a response video for this but I can help explain with the best of my abilities on why people have issues with Greg Land.
- now with the use of NSFW photo references, I guess to some it takes them out of the content they read but people tend to be prudish depending on who they are
- His visual storytelling is off, stiff and repetitive where the expression that he probably swiped doesn't fit with the dialogue. (See the infamous final page of ultimate fantastic four #23 where Sue's expression doesn't fit with the shock of the surprise return of her mother)
- While Swiping isn't entirely a bad thing, it's the amount that is used to the point where characters will look very inconsistent from panel to panel or page to page where in one page a Character will have curly hair but in the next will have a very different hair or even a face. His consistency is flawed
there's a video on the critique of Greg's work done by Comic Tropes that elaborate on why Land's sequential storytelling has problems
th-cam.com/video/bshNOtERfVI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Pd28cTJI_Mjaf3HH
Pretty much sums up my opinion. Not to mention, it's so blatant that he traces that it's distracting.
Thank you very much for taking the time to respond, especially in such depth. All three examples you provided are perfectly understandable and reasonable. The incosistency from panel to panel, is indeed an area where he needs to work on, heavily. As for the usage of adult content for his work.. That is something I'm not even sure how I feel about
Great video and you make great points i met land at a convention very codial had some art supplies with him to do sketches i told him i liked his automobiles especially the mercury Marquis that he did and that he should give George Perez tips on drawing cars ..... Lol,he had pages for sale but i passed thought they were a little pricey , but yeah they seems to be a who-you-are-and-not-what-you-do dynamic at work here .....
You're the first person in the comments to have met him in person, so thank you for sharing your experience with him! I'm glad to know he's not hostile. Thank you very much!
Unpopular opinion here: after watching this video, now I want to do what Greg Land did, and only because it seems a lot of fun.
No artistic or professional intent here, just taking a break doing something fun.
It does seem kinda fun, right? :)
One word: BASED
I wouldn't mind putting in my own two cents trying to explain this whole debacle, but it may dive into some politics, hence I think I should refrain for the sake of not getting into a fight.
Whichever makes you feel best. I would hope people could debate peacefully, but realistically that never happens. Thank you for sharing your thoughs anyways!
@@anyalized No problem!
I laugh at anyone who traces Adam Hughes, since he traces too!
Adam defends himself by claiming to be a "recreationist".
That he recreates what he sees in photos.
Adam got where he is by tracing penthouse and playboy pics.
Adam is on a different tier, I feel. But I respect your stance on the matter. Thank for sharing!
@@anyalized Adam is the teflon coated Greg Land!
I didn't know Hughes traces,most definitely didn't know he traces pics from Penthouse and Playboy magazines. WTF. LOL.
@@misterprickly OUCH. LOL.
@@kerry-j4m that's why hus referenced work and his nonreferenced work look like night and day!
Wow, I didn't know the hate on Greg Land had gotten to that point of vitriol. I remember when I first heard about this, a lot of concern was that the more his art got photo realistic, the more stiff his art started looking, and the photo references would change for the same character's face, creating a disconnect to the reader. So yeah, Greg definitely doesn't deserve the people wishing him dead, no one does.
It saddly has :( and look, I understand peoples concern regarding his art, that's understandable.. But trying to push someone over the edge, hating and bullying someone unceasingly simply cannot be justified.
Just found your channel. Love your videos
Thank you so much! :)
Fascinating presentation!
Thank you very much! :)
I don't think that people want Greg Land to be exiled from the comic book industry or for him to die, I don't think people attack him with a clear goal in their maind, but something that Greg Land could do to stop all the hate is to be better; but he insists on keeping his regular output of work. Contrary to the other examples that you pointed out, Greg Land hasn't done better, and as you have seen in your investigation, they have kept good faith and work thanks to them improving their art and stop using sneaky tricks to get the job done. Those who don't want to do better keep getting backlash and criticism (Arthur Suydman will never have the same profile he once had) or get their reputation destroyed. The oddball here is Greg Land, he keeps doing the same morally dubious stuff and weirdly enough he hasn't faced any professional consecuence as the examples you cited.
Greg Land is not an underdog, he has been a long standing figure in the industry. I undestand that the hate thrown at him can be excesive but he still has a stable job,and it would seem that a solid fanbase that purchase his books. Portraying him as a constant victim of illogical vitriol is incorrect when the criticism to his persona comes from his lack of skills in a field that really values such skills.
And also, implying that Jones and Cruz get a free pass because she is an atractive woman and he is latino is an entire can of worms I'm not gonna touch.
Fair enough. Yes, you're right, he did bring this onto himself, and yes, he hasn't changed his ways, but I'm not sure that's reason enough to throw that much anger towards someone. Also, I did state in the video (at minute 17:15) that he is not a "victim" of any kind, and in fact is a grown man, completely sane and aware of his behavior.. But even then, I'm sorry, it feels wrong to see this much backlash against what feels mostly him. Just open twitter or instagram, or any social media and search his name. It's daunting.
Also, the only reason why I made this video, is because I 'm sorry, but I feel bad for this man, despite his errors, he's still and older man. I would love it if people could tease him in a light hearted way, or with humor, or could focus on enjoying what was once supposed to be light hearted entertainment.
And thank you for not insulting or using cuss words to make your point across. I've had to filter comments for the very first time as a result of this video.
A lot of comic fans are touched. There is also a lot of people who like to feel like they fit in with the current thing. Like this current ai witch hunt I have a feeling the amount of people using ai is far more prevalent and it’s more just a way for the industry to attack people they find undesirable.
Interesting view. Now that you mention it, it does sound like there might be some "mob mentality" behind the curtains.
Thank you for another great video I know who he is and I love his artwork not that much but I still like it no nonetheless. People should be judged equally not favorably
Thank you once again for watching and for sharing your thoughts! :)
I don't feel too sorry for Greg Land, as he seems to be always working.
Okay, if I were to guess as to why Greg gets all the hate, it's because he makes it plainly obvious that he is tracing whereas others don't. Greg could be considered the poster child for trace artists.
But I wouldn't know, I haven't picked up a modern comic book outside of Ultinate Spider-Man for years.
I think the huge hate towards Greg Land's trace is the reference he supposedly uses, and its very odd since when drawing comic's, sex appeal helps sales the comics to either gender.
But for some reason, it's just that vocal part that speaks loudly of finding it disgusting that an artist would essentially use adult films for reference. Compare to the other's that were mention, none of them has been part of that sort of controversy compare to Greg, only simply tracing other artists or copying it all together. Because of that, they can kind of just get away scott free.
It's sad, but people simply would judge the more weirder part then the more normal part.
While I'm not a huge fan of some of Greg's work, he has so many other moments where his art shines, notably Ultimate fantastic four, the Nightwing solo run, and one of the X-men comic's he did like in the mid 2000's. Heck, he's one of those artist where his drawing, regardless of what, is recognizable and even still popular. And to be honest, if Greg were to come out and made clear note of some of his references came from adult films, its as you said, "Damn if you do, damn if you don't."
He's already a punching bag for years, and he'll sadly be that way for a long time. Nothing can really be done besides pointing out that other artist does something similar like Greg, if not worse behind close doors. Another enjoyable video on your end.
TH-cam algorithm really came through on this one.
Oh yes, and here is the thing, I'm not saying that using adult content as a base for comics aimed for a different target isn't an "odd" choice.. but the thing is, he has always admitted to using these types of refferences for his work. For example, I remember quite well, seeing him on Wizards "basic training" section, showing how he uses lingerie models as a base for his art. I just don't see a justification for hating on an old man, who is honest about what he does, and seems to be a nice individual. Regardless of whether we like his work or not.
I'm sorry, but it feels wrong, and yes, you're right, nothing is going to change.
In spanish we have a saying that goes "crea fama y echate a dormir", which translates to: "create fame and then rest", which implies that once you've become notorious for doing something, all left to do is rest, because it's unlikely someone can change people's perception on them.
I'm a huge fan of Alan Davis, and I remember reading an X-men comic years ago that David Mack had drawn that made me stop reading and go back to see if Davis had done a couple of guest pages because his style is unmistakable. Nope, Mack just yoinked some Davis art.
It's tough, because comics is probably the most down and dirty mercenary form of mass media storytelling there is. Wally Wood was a legend, but he also realized they were making disposable stuff for kids. Whatever it took to make the deadline. Longevity as a work of art wasn't a concern back in the day.
These days, I think it's incredibly poor form to swipe the art of another artist in this field unless you've asked first. Comics is a small industry, and people get reps fast. Rob Liefeld still has work despite being legendarily bad because he gets his work done on time and he's apparently a super nice guy.
As for photos, that's less of an issue. Artists use photo reference all the time. Do all of them have to set up their own photoshoots like Alex Ross does? C'mon now. The issue with Land is that his art and expressions are so heavily traced and referenced they don't fit the storytelling. Land doesn't realize that some lady moaning in porn because of... well, god knows what has different bodily energy than a lady wailing in grief and pain.
Mack also used Alan Davis work as a base for some of his first Kabuki issues (I sprinkled some images of that throughout the video). But once again, Mack is one of the few who owns up to it and apologizes. Most either deny it, or simply don't care and move on. PS: Alan Davies is a Comicbook God
@@anyalized I LOVE Alan Davis's art-TOO.
I like your voice and your style of video, im a pretty monotone person myself, but i think it might help if you talk a little faster! keeps people engaged, but its fair if you dont i mean i had to learn to talk faster myself lol
Thank you very much! I'll try to fasten the speed of the videos when I edit, because I can barely speak at all when recording.. it's very tensing.. especially when reading haha
@@anyalized worry not, you are perfectly understandable.
I think what it is that Greg Land was an early internet cancel mob before there was a word for it. It used to be a magazine would create the mob but Land's mob was a creation of people still kicking around from the forums who created it. They never really got the scalp they wanted. He's also the least artistic of the referencers. Mack has all this smoke and mirrors to hide the swiping as do a lot of the other artists here. Land was banging out work to meet deadlines. Mike Deodato is just as bad as well but there's more smoke and mirrors involved. Most people in most industries understand that. You have influences and not everything is a plagarization but instead you accidentally pantsing yourself with what you like.
None of it bothers me. It's not like they're on Moby Dick. It's the equivalent of brain off sitcom typically in American comics. The nature of the American comics industry incentivizies bad behavior because there is so few jobs and so little money. Most of the big names are stealing in general and being hypocrites on everything. It's not just artists. Alan Moore's ending to Watchmen is stolen from a Twilight Zone episode and even editor Len Wein has done interviews about it. Bendis with Secret Invasion was an equally hacky version of DC Millenium over a decade earlier. It's why the whole industry is so quick and vitrolic when pointing out theft cause they dont want to be called out themselves.
Yes! He became the scapegoat or punching bag of the comicbook industry, despite the fact that far too many have the same approach to art. I was this close to use Deodato for this video, after I discovered the Mena Suvari situation, but I'll use that for something more positive. By the way, thank you for being respectful with your response!
i love secret invasion idc if its plagiarised
Minor correction, the episode ‘The Architects of Fear’ that you’re referring to about Watchmen wasn’t from The Twilight Zone. It was from The Outer Limits.
Also as far I know, Len Wein didn’t think the ending was stolen from The Outer Limits, he just pointed out the similarities to Moore, who refused to change the ending but did have a reference to it when Dan and Laurie visit Sally.
Len Wein quit his role as editor on the miniseries after the disagreement with Moore, believing Alan could write a better ending, but did write an Ozymandias series as a part of Before Watchmen, where the last issue has Adrian Veidt watching The Architects of Fear which would inspire his world peace scheme.
Lol😂 Rob Granito is a joke, what a hack.....
Yet he gets more sympathy than Greg :( plus, acording to the comments on the videos about him, he still active on lesser known local conventions..
I can't imagine wasting my time hating someone I don't know on the internet
Exactly!
The 1st human AI
Fair enough. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
It happens with every type of art
:(
I think what really annoys me about greg is that he so obviously traces from nsfw material, intrinsically sexualizing characters who aren't even adults.
He then uses this in art of people who get beaten and mutilated on the street, like he did when working on recent X-men comics.
I dunno just seems wrong to me.
Whoah, I did not know that.. Using adult content for underage characters is wrong on so many levels. To a point where the beaten and mutilated part seems comedic in comparison..
@@anyalizedI'm not a Greg hater but his choices are suspect and yes his porn poses apply to all females regardless of age, which is twisted.
Okay but I love your voice though.
Thank you very much! You're very kind!
I thought you was gonna talk about Greg land tracing pornographic images
I did mention it, although very briefly.. the sheer mention adult content Is frowned upon by the youtube Gods, is it not?
What's the name of the guy who is not named?
I'm sorry, I can't say his name :(
So, that what you sound like. And you doing TH-cam now? ...Who would have thought. Lol
Any who when it comes to artists like Greg Land ( who I think I have never pick up a comic drawn by him but know of him via meme) in the whole tracing shenanigans. Is more of the matter of how big are these artists especially on certain communities. Someone like me probably never heard of the authors you mentioned. So all of them is went over my head (tho I did heard about a Batman comic being AI generated though).
But there is some big examples were there people did gave the artist just as even more hate than Land. Like over a decade ago the son of one of the KISS members produce a comic book but publisher have to cancel it due to the backlash of being plagiarized from several published manga, the most notable being Bleach, and from art communities such as DeviantArt.
Or recently Butch Hartman who sell overpriced, low quality commissions only to find out they was traced by high quality fan art.
Are there any videos of Greg Land drawing? I used to have a friend in DA who dealt with the similar BS too. Try making videos of her drawing prove it. Granted it did little.
I'm not entirely sure that's comparable. I know what Greg does is wrong, I've stated that multiple times. But Greg has been recieving nothing but hate for decades, while so many others do the same and walk scott free. Whenever the name "Greg land" pops up anywhere, it comes with nothing but attacks and insults as well as immediate backlash. It doesn't matter what he does. He could save someones life and people would still find a way to attack him. PS: I have no clue who you are, I'm sorry lol.
@@anyalized yeah I bet, i watch and comment your stuff in the old deviantART days. Still follow you on Facebook too.
@@SSJThug So.. you're not telling me who you are?.. lol okay