Finally Making Breakthroughs with my Throwing Training
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ย. 2024
- I finally figured out how to change my form in some key trouble areas, so that I can start making progress again. In this video I elaborate on what my 2 biggest specific problems are, and 1 general issue that affects everything with my ability to improve form.
DISCLAIMER: I still have all the form issues I've historically had, but now I've been able to reach a point where I can actually fix some things, and I can continue to evolve my form again. I was stuck in a rut on my biggest issues, and now I'm out.
CONTEXT: Over the course of the last year, I was coached by different form trainers, but ran into some roadblocks to improvement over some specific issues that I am finally learning how to fix. I spent a lot of time researching these problems and determining how best to solve them.
The primary issue has been wobble or off-axis torque when I threw with my backhand. It turns out this is a multifactor problem, and the fixes I was given by others did not work. That's because they were giving advice that incidentally minimized the issue, but were not directly related.
The secondary issue has been my plant foot facing too far forward when I threw. Basically I'm over-rotated, early on in my swing. As it turns out, this has a causal relationship to wobble, as it places my upper body in bad positions throughout the throw. This forced me to externally rotate my arm (at the shoulder) to allow it to collapse enough to pull the disc around my body (from behind), creating other bad effects like rounding, and loss of power.
Lastly, there is an overarching issue where my ability is lacking to feel the location, movement, and action of parts of my body when I throw. So I spent a lot of time in this training session trying to feel my body and limbs move throughout all the throws I did. This ability is called proprioception and I feel the disc golf form community needs to spend more time focusing on this issue, as I think it's a primary cause for form issues.
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I know this is an older video. But your form work looks good from my beginner point of view. You have come so far, you should really be proud of yourself.
I am not as far along as you, but I find inspiration and patience to work on my own form by following you. I believe it comes from your honesty, openness and self awareness of your position along your journey.
But I love having something to learn that I enjoy and is challenging as well. If I could learn this game in one year I would probably be bored with it soon after.
Thank you for the video.
Lots of great tips. Totally agree about accuracy and consistency being way more important than distance. I made some breakthroughs in my form not too long ago as well and it's nice but I had to change out some of the discs in my bag because lots of my discs weren't flying the same with the added power. Good excuse to buy more discs!!
I love your technique Nick! Made me realise I'm not fully following through...
Great work Nick!
Thank you! A lot of my progress is due to the things you had me try. Work in progress!
Excellent video Nick. I appreciate your going through all of your thoughts and giving us an example of consistent form to use.
This may be a stupid question, but here goes. I know tjat tje different discs are designed to fly at different speeds, or tjat they behave differently when they are thrown at different speeds. These are two different things. If one is throwing a 6 speed driver like a Leopard, and also throwing a 9 speed driver like a Valkyrie, do you select tue disc speed based on tje distance needed and apply the same amount of power to each throw? Or rather, do you throw the Leopard at a 6 speed power and the Beast at a 10 speed power? Is it a combination of both?
Generally people throw the same power levels, and the discs generally go more or less distance based on their aerodynamic profile. The higher speed numbers just mean "more aerodynamic." So for this training session my goal was to throw at about the 80% power range with the putters, as well as the fairway drivers. I chose the drivers I did because those were in my cart, and I went with the more neutral fliers. But the Valkyrie (for my power level) should go a little farther than the Leopard, and the Mamba at the end of the video goes a tiny bit farther. I can't really get more distance out of faster discs at this point.
@@NickCarroll My observations regarding my performance are similar to yours. I have a Leopard, Diamond, IT, Valkyrie and Mamba. I'm just now getting the Valkyrie to form a reliable ess. The Mamba is flying pretty straight. On most days, my lightweight Leopard will still match all the others in total distance.
@@NickCarroll Thanks so much for your input. Wish I was playing in the Houston area now and not the Twin Cities.
@@alanlundberg4534 Yeah I can get a surprising distance from the Leopard because it's a bit more understable, so it flips up and can drift a surprising distance if I do it right. That said, the Mamba is really what I can get the most distance, but that is also due to the skip if I get a hold of it. It'll travel the farthest in air, then skip more than my slower discs.
@@alanlundberg4534 Well if you're ever down in the area you're welcome to join us. We play most weekends. 🙂
I think my comment will sound condecending but its truly not the intent. These issues you point out are issues you have dealt with and done videos about for quite a long time (at least since i have followed you) and i know you have worked with many coaches including the stokely program and some local coaches you have posted videos with. I feel like you have also posted similar vidoes to this one where you felt you had breakthroughs or something clicked.So i am curious what your new coach is doing that you feel like will help you permanently fix these problems that previous coaches couldnt?
Well, it's a bit of a laundry list, but I'll try to summarize. But I have to contextualize before that. I went from self-coaching myself into wall, into joining the Stokely Method and started working on form with him and his trainers in December of last year. I made some progress, but ran into a set of walls, and the advice I got back then was essentially to push through it until things automatically started working. And maybe that worked for others, but all it did was solidify my problems. Scott has 2 essential drills and a set of 6 rules to follow. Technically there's a 7th but it's not codified as a rule, but basically he (and his trainers) wanted me to do 2 generic drills that were supposed to put me on a path to improving my form, and all they did was get me to a certain point, and I had no way of getting them to understand the nature of my problems - in particular the wobble one, but I couldn't drill my way out of the situation.
What this did do was set me on a path to look for other trainers once I completed the Stokely Method. Don't get me wrong: there's a ton that I got out of it, and I had a lot of good conversations with people, but so few were going through exactly what I was, and it felt like I had to blaze trails on this and then drag people down it. This is where Owen came in. He and I had talked off and on in comments of his videos, and a handful of times elsewhere, and I felt like he was able to understand my problems and help me troubleshoot them. After chatting with him for some time I felt like I finally was talking to someone who understood what my problems were, but had specific things he wanted me to try. Not only that, but he was working with someone else with essentially the same problem, and he felt we could tackle this largely misunderstood problem I had.
Since we started working together in July he's given me about 20 things to look at. Not all are problems, but may be contributing factors. A lot of these are also related, so addressing some will address others, and we've decided to prioritize my wobble issue, but I believe there are other things I'm doing that's causing this, and the reason why a lot of people don't have this issue is because they've done other good things which corrected their form, so some things like wobble and bad plant foot placement are prevented in the first place. So basically Owen and I have been communicating a lot about the various problems I have, and he's given me a lot of drills to try for different things, and I finally have someone I can talk to (Owen) in depth about basically anything form related.
I'll finish up by saying this: I do appreciate your questions and don't take offense to them. Formwork is an art. It's more than a science, and I'm going through a bit of a unique journey in my case. I work a career full time (it's very involved and I don't have the time free a lot of people think I might). I'm a part time disc golfer, part time content creator, and I have to segment my time rigidly. So I work full time every weekday, play on the weekends, edit at night, and work on no disc drills and some practice when I can. The things I've worked on the most recently has been forcing my body to do more of a wide rail (it feels wide, but really the extension is more straight back, than out) as well as making sure the disc doesn't go farther back than my chest when I throw - because that is a big part of why my upper arm externally rotates when I reach back.
I'm trying to look forward more - more at the elbow than at the disc - and working on not closing my eyes. There's a lot of things just related to wobble that I'm working on, but it's hard to do more than any one thing at a time. So I'm working on trying to build a new swing path entirely that does a lot of these things all at once. Sorry to elaborate so much.
@@NickCarroll Yeah coaching can be very subjective and personal for some people. Sometimes you just need to find the right person you connect with. Sounds like Owen has confirmed things you already knew were issues and highlighted a few others. Cheers to your continued journey.