Honestly, if you think about it logically for 10 seconds, it falls apart completely. Jesus' sacrifice is the most pointless act in all fiction. If his father, the entity referenced as "god" in John 3:16, was truly omnipotent, why couldn't he. Hange the laws and forgive people once and for all? If Jesus was the son of a lesser God, sent down to appease the lawgiver, then worshipping Jeaus is a violation of the first commandment.
And millions of hindus saw this "Baba" dude (forgot exactly the name) perform all kind of "miracles" during his lifetime just in our recent history and nobody is talking about it and would even consider them manipulated and have some level of ignorance to some extent. But apply this same scenario 2,000 years ago and with many less witnesses and you are just a devout christian and you find it that more logical 😂.
@@AntitheistHuman Satya Sai Baba. My mother visited his ashram back in the 1970s and saw him "materialize" ash, making it seemingly appear from nowhere in his hands, and then passing bits out to people. She was an amused skeptic and enjoyed the very convincing show. She also said to me that she thought to herself, "I don't want a bunch of ash. But I want him to look me in the eyes." When got to her in the crowd he didn't give her any ash and he paused, looking her in the eyes. He was very good at reading his crowd. A real professional.
I visited his Ashram in 94. With my mom and stepdad. Just for the experience. I got enlightened. Well I came back much lighter from e coli. @@fepeerreview3150
It's amazing how Rogan can do these basic push-back comments/questions on a topic like this, but when someone tells him kids are using kitty litter boxes in schools because they identify as cats, he just swallows it whole.
Joe heard the story from his wife's teacher-friend who claimed the litter boxes were at HER school and then on a subsequent episode he stated on air that he changed his mind and doesn't think the story is true. If a friend told you a funny story about something that he witnessed at work would you assume he was lying? He's not an idiot.
@@ssl3546He’s certainly a little gullible, for example he recently had Graham Hancock back on for a third time I think? Something more than he deserves (if you don’t know Graham Hancock pushes the idea there was a globe conquering civilization right before the Ice age and that wiped out multiple species of animal and built things like the Pyramids, and he believes this empire was Atlantis).
@@thysonsacclaimHe's not that stupid or that bad a guy. Though he does goof and blunder quite abit. Take him with a grain of salt. But he's had some really good guests on.
@@thermite547Miniminuteman on TH-cam has a series debunking Hancock's theories. It's long and in parts but a great watch. Shows how Netflix And Hancock are misrepresenting the people they interviewed.
WLC's "I do not care whether it is most certainly not true, it makes me feel so good that I will believe it" was the greatest demonstration of honesty a christian could make. I was surprised that already Martin Luther said "True Faith does not need evidence". Both demonstrate that christianity is not based on logic and understanding, but purely on appealing to emotion.
Not even that. They are dealing with an interpretation of an emotion, which removes it another step. Many times the person is even told by another person what their emotions mean. eg, If you feel this it means god. It's not just lack of logic it is the addition of deception. The last thing they add is fear of eternal torture if you interpret your emotions in a way that differs from what they tell you. So it's deceptive, controlling and manipulative. Basically it's evil, which is really ironic.
@@thunderbird3694 I would disagree with that assertion. Children believe in Santa every year and their parents (and the adults around them) will go to great lengths to convince the children Santa is real - including providing "evidence" to back up the lie. People believe all kinds of things and have all sorts of reasons for doing so. My mother believes that putting half a red onion in her sock overnight will "draw out" the "bacteria" and cure colds. And she'll show the black onion that's started decaying as "proof" that it works. And yes, she insists it has to be red onions. I have no idea where she got this idea (no one else in her family believes her or does anything like it), but the confirmation bias has her continuing to swear by it. Humans are not rational beings and we're very prone to confirmation bias. Religion preys on that part of our psychology. I do have a pet hypothesis about Boomers and lead poisoning. But let's just say testing that hypothesis would require access to a lot of Boomers' medical records and I don't have that. lol Edit: I should add that the reason why I have that hypothesis is because Boomers seem particularly susceptible to a lot of very ridiculous ideas and beliefs - including stuff where they should just plain know better. My mother went to public school. She can articulate a decent explanation of Germ Theory. And yet... Red onions. I just don't understand it.
3:55 Atheists answer to climate changes: "We screwed up, we need to do something about it." Theists answer: "God will fix it, he won't let us die." Tell me again who is accountable for his actions?
@@derp8575 What is the appeal to authority fallacy? Is it, say, where experts on the climate agree that the evidence overwhelming suggests present climate change is real and caused by human activities, and then laymen think it's more reasonable to believe that view is more likely true than the alternatives?
@@Paulogia Are you aware of the criticism that Andrew Ter Ern Loke has made of your and Bart Erham's skeptical positions? He has also criticized other skeptical scholars on his TH-cam channel.
@04:00 LOL. I rolled my eyes and said out loud, "You just want to sin," in precise unison with @Paulogia. This is how to recognize a trope-it doesn't get any clearer than that.
Given what we know about modern cults; power struggles, petty in-fighting, general secrecy and subterfuge, and healthy doses of sexual intrigue, how can we not apply that same lens to a bronze age cult? These were human beings prone to all the same human faults we experience today. A leader dies and there is a re-shuffling of the cult's pecking order. Who's in charge? Who did dear leader love the most? Who is going to take over now? That is a fertile field for claims to legitimacy and power. "I just saw him". "I just saw him and he nodded to me". "I just saw him and he nodded to me and told me I'm the new leader".
@MisterLumpkin - You are correct as we have at least 25 gospels that were written because at least 24 thought they knew better and they had the truth. Then some came together and agreed that 4 contradicting fan fiction stories are better than the 21 other fan fiction stories. We have a letter from Paul warning about forgeries (the irony is that the letter is considered to be a forgery.). Half of the letters of Paul's are forgeries (as they have several authors ). So people tried to use Paul's name to force their opinion on everyone.
@@Alltime2050 We are the same people for 250,000 years with the same brain capacity. Not to mention that so many Americans believe in an invisible Santa Claus looking for their car keys and thousands of contradicting denominations claim to believe in the same book.
@@TorianTammas Our ancestors weren't any more stupid than people are capable of being today. That wasn't the problem. They were ignorant. There's a world of difference between those two things. For the majority of those 250,000 years you referenced, our ancestors lived in an ancient reality when so little was known about the observable world that almost anything a person could imagine might possibly be true. They had no choice other than to substitute myth and superstition for logic and reason. That was the only way they could survive their own intelligence without going insane. Today, the only way for superstition to survive is by attempting to recreate that ancient ignorance. Unfortunately, that's having the opposite effect of the natural variety. Instead of keeping their minds under control, intentional ignorance is driving them crazy. All Religions are the anachronistic remnants of the ancient world. Christians are only slightly more intellectually and emotionally evolved than people were in the Roman era. They will not help humanity build a sustainable future because that's the last thing they want. Their endless culture wars are designed to keep humanity spinning in circles. In the meantime, their denial of science and the climate crisis have turned them into the greatest man-made threat facing the survival of our species in human history. Any superstition attempting to lead humanity to a self-inflicted end-time/extinction event is the epitome of pure evil. I don't care how holy or immortal they think they are.
I grew up in a Catholic school system where they used a thick foundation of "there is SO MUCH historical evidence for Jesus" that when i found out that there is really almost none (like you mentioned) the foundation of my faith cracked, and in the 5-8 years that followed my entire faith was gone. To me, it really is just painfully obvious that Christian claims aren't true
Well, if it helps, you can just check wikipedia to see that most scholars believe Jesus existed. Besides, what consists of "almost none"? Do you believe that Julius Caesar existed? If you do, why? The oldest records of him are from almost a millennium after his death. Still, almost every scholar believes Julius Caesar existed. It's all about perspective. It's your choice what sources you want to believe, but please be consistent in it.
@annekekramer3835 I understand the general consensus is that a teacher named Jesus most likely existed. It's also the consensus that there's no evidence for Joseph of aramathea nor his tomb at all. There's also consensus in there being zero justification for "all the apostles being martyred" as all but Peter and John were lost to history. They're are no records outside the 4 gospels (which conflict despite plagiarizing each other) if Jesus's trial, execution or burial. Those are the kinds of things in talking about. I was taught all the stories in the gospel were strongly verified by historical records. Now, the comparison of Jesus's historicity to Julius Ceasar's is a complete red herring. We could get into how dishonest the claim is, but countries all over the world wrote of Cesar in gis time. We have coins, stairs, paintings. There is none of that for Jesus. BUT that's all missing the point: whether Cesar existed or not is of absolutely no consequence to anyone. So to comparing him to Jesus is completely meaningless anyway.
@@annekekramer3835 What evidence do we have for Julius Caesar? We have temples. We have statues. We have coins. We have his own writings and attestations by contemporaries. What evidence do we have for the historical existence of Jesus? Just hagiographies by believers who were convinced he was the pre-existing Son of God or God himself.
It's important to note that there are historical documents from the time or shortly after that do mention Jesus and his crucifixion. These writings come from a variety of sources, including non-Christians, which provide some historical evidence for his existence and the events surrounding his life. There are Roman historical records, like those of Tacitus, a Roman historian, and Pliny the Younger, a Roman governor. They both refer to Christ and early Christian communities. Tacitus, in his 'Annals,' mentions Christ's execution under Pontius Pilate. Pliny's letters to Emperor Trajan discuss early Christian practices and worship of Christ. The New Testament itself, contains multiple books and letters written by different authors. These texts provide accounts of Jesus' life, crucifixion, and resurrection. What's interesting is that these accounts were written by different people at different times and in different places.
@@juanausensi499 He's a delusional stand up comedian who is consistently wrong and buys into pretty much any conspiracy theory he hears. Normally he just goes along with whatever the guest says no matter how crazy it is, with zero attempt to call them out on anything or fact check unless he just personally doesn't like what they're saying. He'll often argue with guests who are actually experts just because he doesn't like the facts, then blindly just believe anything some conspiracy nut says because he likes how it sounds.
@@juanausensi499 Rogan questioned the Covid Narrative. He had opposing voices (medical Docs, scientists, journalists) on his show. He had professionals that excepted the entire Covid agenda also. He questioned and poked at them also. Some think this make makes him a, conspiracy theory driven, fool.
In this book it says these extraordinary things happened thousands of years ago... things that have never been proven to happen in history, ever, though lots of myths exist that sound like these things in lots of traditions before these things... However, this one in particular is real, because we have learned that some parts of the story were real back then - never mind that happens with all of the other myth stories as well
I particularly bristle at WLC calling your past Christianity "brain dead" when his entire career is using the optics of academia and words laypeople don't understand to trick people into thinking the science/philosophy says things it doesn't. "Brain dead" Christians pay that man's bills, he should have some respect. Also, they aren't brain dead, obviously, and neither were you (or I), just misguided by sincere non-experts like our parents and grifting predators like WLC.
Honestly floored at hearing Joe Rogan ask such fantastic questions. It sounds like he actually did a great job with at least that part of the interview. Credit where credit is due, I guess.
@@fisharepeopletoo9653 He engages in a bit of pseudoscience. The kind that’s virtually harmless when it’s just and your buddies, but Joe is on a gigantic stage. If the consumer wasn’t so dumb Joes thoughts wouldn’t be a big deal. Just my take on it.
@@MacLaw3084but that's all he says the podcast is. Never once has he said the podcast should be taken seriously, he actually often says he known nothing. The problem is not Joe or the podcast format, but the idiotic listeners who worship Joe. The episodes with Alex Jones for example, have become some of the most entertaining pieces of media to me when you just vaguely listen while doing other shit
7:20 The existence of New York and Barack Obama corroborates the existence of Spiderman! Again we see an apologist use the fact that the bible references local people and places as "proof" of the supernatural claims of he bible -- when all it actually shows is the people who wrote the bible were aware of their surroundings.
Just the idea that people wouldn't give up their lives in a lie for an ideology is incredibly naïve. We've seen many examples of what can happen when people believe "the ends justify the means." As if that were the only explanation anyway. Then of course the whole "There really was a Pontus Pilate, so therefore Jesus rose from the dead" spiel. That's like someone a thousand years from now claiming the covid pandemic was a hoax because they found a bunch of youtube videos from conspiracy theorists.
More like people 1000 years from now thinking Spiderman was real because they found a text from today and researched it and discovered that New York was a real place.
@@HarryNicNicholas The wealthy donors keeping the Discovery Institute afloat despite zero actual discoveries certainly are paying him well. I'm sure the book sales don't hurt either. There's no shortage of Christians willing to fork over a few bucks for an "authority" to tell them their beliefs aren't silly.
@@EatHoneyBeeHappy The "wealthy donors" are mainly trusts, think tanks and similar tax evasion mechanisms connected to the resources sector and the military industrial complex. This point can never be highlighted enough. The level of scrutiny of this point undertaken by Christians is wildly disproportionate to the level of obfuscation of its funding sources undertaken by the Discovery Institute.
People lie all the time, and get into trouble. Look, people lie all the time. All the time. There's no reason to believe that these characters didn't lie about their so-called experiences.
@pavld335 I'm saying that not all people lie lol, you make it seem like we lie 24/7, I'm just saying that we should just take people's opinions or statements not too lightly but at the same time still be able to understand...if that makes sense...
We have 25 contradicting stories and only four made it in a story collection. The characters are they named Spiderman, Harry Potter or Jesus do what the author wants them to do as they are his creations.
@@JD-wu5pf He used to have people like Sean Carroll, Brian Cox, and Lawrence Krauss on. Although I think the quality of his guests has decreased I was pleasantly surprised with his treatment of Stephen Meyers as opposed to his fanboy blowing of Jordan Peterson.
Joe definitely has a bent and a bias towards conspiracies, and he admits it himself, and I disagree with him and his guests quite often as well. But I've come to believe that Rogan may be the best interviewer working today. So many media interviewers ask bullsh-- questions designed to provoke specific responses and their subjects spend most of their time reframing the question before answering that it's just a waste of time. Rogan asks good solid questions, and then mostly gets out of the way to let his subject respond as fully and completely as they like, and then Rogan is usually good about asking smart followups without being confrontational about it. Whatever one thinks about Rogan's personal beliefs, I don't see that in any other media interviewers working today.
The moment an individual cites WLC as a source for affirming their belief, he loses all credibility. Clearly the individual is not interested in truth, he only cares about being reassured.
The only Christian apologist that I have heard be honest, and say if the evidence shows me it's wrong I would not be a Christian is Dr. Stephen Boyce. He hates the term apologist because most apologists. I find his coverage of history interesting. WLC, McDowell and Strobell not worth my time.
@@njspencer79 Well said. Thank you. I am no expert on biblical matters, but I like to think that I can recognise fraudsters and liars well enough to discount them. My expertise lies in Napoleonic Warfare. I love history enough to know that religion has been at the root of most conflicts. Not once have I ever found anything that demonstrates which god, if any, is real. As far as I can tell, religion is dangerous, invented and vile.
Godzilla destroys actual Japanese cities, the models of which are rendered in great detail, you can recognize individual ones. So by that token, Godzilla must be real.
@@Nocturnalux I am not sure who you are replying to. I am not saying I agree w/ Boyce I am history buff and I find his podcasts on early Christian history interesting. Not that I hold the same belief as he.
@@njspencer79 I’m replying to the OP. It’s just another example of the “city does not mean supernatural event”. Spiderman is the go-to example, I use Godzilla because the franchise delights in recreating Japanese cities, with their landmarks, and then destroying them. It’s just a matter of personal preference as I love Godzilla and don’t care for superheroes.
How can I be held accountable before someone who knew what I would do? Someone who made this world such that I had very little choice in doing what ever I did. The idea is ridiculous.
Yes. And according to some doctrines, it's not even what you do, but what you believe. I can force myself to listen to the evidence, but I can't force myself to believe it if I don't, and He made me a skeptic to boot. For a just god, that isn't playing very fair.
Person A writing that person B believes in a resurrection can not show anything else than person B's belief in a resurrection. Hitler thought he would win the war, we have documents that verify that he really believed that and we have evidence that the war took place. Should we conclude that he won? How could this even be an argument?
I have seen Christians trying to get J. Warner Wallace into Joe's show. After seeing how easily (an almost certainly intoxicated) JR dismantled Stephen's points, I too want the Good Detective to appear on the show.
*I didn't want to call Stephen C. Meyer a liar, but I'm justified in doing so after watching that interview.* Meyer said that Josephus wrote (16:35 ) that James was martyred for his witness to the resurrection of Jesus. But Josephus did _not_ say that, _and Meyer knows this._ (Or else Meyer is lying about having carefully studied the texts.) Either way - he's yet another knowing and conscious liar, dishonestly defending his religious beliefs. 🙄 Paul here is being far too generous to Meyer at ( 18:24 ). It's not "simply an error". _Meyer knows that he's telling a lie._
Let's not forget when they talk about how translations make theur book more difficult to understand... who (according to their own book) caused us to have all these different languages?
@@jedi77palmer yep. Like the time he got fact checked to his face about myocarditis and refused to admit he was wrong. All that jazz about ivermectin...
@jedi77palmer this noise again. Sure, ivermectin has some other uses, but the use it's most often associated with is as a horse dewormer. So it wasn't out of pocket at all to rip people for using horse dewormer. Especially since it wasn't proven to do anything for COVID, and since the anti-vaxx crowd often railed against the lack of proof for vaccine efficacy. His gripe about the "media portrayal" was akin to someone being mad over an accusation they're using a fever reducer just because Tylenol has other purposes. Total tripe
@02:57 Oh dear. Your Syriac ms. is upside down. Also, note that while Syriac is a form of Aramaic, it is still considered its own language, with some variation in its own syntax.
@Paulogia you are in good company. Many book publishers have printed dust jackets for trade books about ancient literature with manuscripts appearing upside-down. THAT'S embarrassing.
I dont have a lot of respect for Joe... but i have to give him credit for putting Steve's feet to the fire. And it def looked like Steve was squirming from his questions. Def a Mr. Following The Script kind of guy
The fact that Joe Rogan, someone with little to no debate experience, was able to pick apart most of the BS claims just proves how illogical the resurrection is
Wait a minute. I don't recall ever having any sort of motivation to not believe in a God and or Jesus. I simply don't believe based on the outrageous claims and the fact that we don't have good evidence for a god
"People do not lie to get themselves into trouble" oh yeah? Huh, what about the people that try to confess to murders even tho it can be proven they didn't do it? Sometimes more than 1 person tries to falsely take credit for the same crime.
The Bible said people didn't believe in Jesus even when he did miracles right in front of them. They asked him for bigger signs than the ones he gave. Look at the transition from Matthew 15 to Matthew 16.
I recently learned a bit about Joseph Smith, the founder of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons). He was killed basically for the behavior that he used his beliefs to try and justify. He could have feasibly saved himself by denying said beliefs.
When you have the people of 19th century Missouri offended at the way you're treating your women and children in the name of God, I think that might be a fair outcome.
@@ramigilneas9274 there being no competition for something better doesnt make fries a food you should include in your daily diet. Shit is shit, no matter how hard you polish it.
Isn't it interesting that the Bible is largely based on the witness of Paul, who only saw a vision of Jesus? I think people talk about the dubious nature of Paul's vision a fair bit, but it seems like they don't ask "Why is Paul the best we have in the Bible?" I mean, if God wanted to leave a lasting witness to point to Jesus as divine, shouldn't he have preserved text from some of the 1st-hand corporeal witnesses of the risen Jesus? ...seems like poor planning. One might even say imperfect planning ;)
Plus, Paul owes his status in Christianity entirely to a supposed direct intervention by Jesus on the road to Damascus. Prior to that direct intervention, Paul admits that he persecuted and executed Christians. If Jesus really did decide that a direct intervention for Paul would work to make Paul a Christian, it seems odd that Jesus would stop at just that one direct intervention, given how well direct intervention was shown to work in that one case. Is Jesus just too lazy to intervene with the rest of us, _or was Paul merely lying his arse off about the road to Damascus story?_ 🙄
Just for clarification (I grew up and was catholic for about 35 years) the catholic position on the "brothers of Jesus" are that the root word that is used in the bible is the same word used to describe cousins and other close relatives. It was also used as a term of endearment kind of like today when we say something like "a band of brothers" or "this guy is my brother."
@@livamath6733well I'm only addressing what Paul said about catholics thinking his brothers are half brothers and that part isn't accurate according to catholic tradition. Honestly, I'm someone who has very low belief that Jesus was a singular real person so honestly it doesn't really matter
Every single topic always comes back to DMT or mushrooms. I'm sure one day soon he'll be talking to someone about the troubles of parenthood and within 5 minutes Joe will say, "But what about giving DMT to your kids so they can see god?" "A baby sitter? Have you considered letting the machine elves watch you kids?" "Punishment for being bad? How about we give them DMT and let the psyche of the universe judge their action and that giant praying mantis carry out any punishments. Kids love giant a spiritual praying mantis coming to judge them. Ego death is great for toddlers, especially when a giant praying mantis from the DMT plane appears and literally murders their ego and eats it in front of them."
*Thank you. Meyer is a bare faced liar in that interview.* Meyer must know that Josephus did _not_ write that James died defending his resurrection claim. He's pathetic. 🙄
Please correct me if I'm wrong. Was not the bible compiled by Paul/Saul, who recovered from blindness and had a revelation and lived seventy five years after the death of Jesus?
No one person compiled the New Testament, that was a process that took hundreds of years. Was most of the New Testament written by Paul and his followers? Yes. The story goes that Paul and Peter were killed as scapegoats under Nero in AD 64.
6:14 Yeah you missed someone. Supposedly there was one Yeshua of Nazareth present at the trails, but there's no archaeological evidence of his existence, either.
Most people, even those who don't like him, don't think that. There is a long list of other, sound reasons why you should take what he says with a big chunk or rock salt. Especially on subjects he is not well informed on. everything but MMA and stand up basically. @@fisharepeopletoo9653
Two points: First regarding Joe Rogan. Joe asked some very good skeptical questions here. But in my limited experience, he doesn't seem to do this for all subjects, and often seems absurdly credulous to claims made by his guests. I suspect he has listened to enough skeptics to convince him that the Bible stories are not literal, and are simply claims being made, and here he is repeating the skeptical questions he has heard before. The second addresses the guest's statements. Here he seems quite ready to accept that claims alone won't justify belief, but then goes on to justify his belief through claims alone. He often simply uses different claims and labels them evidence. If there is a better example of someone believing because they want to, I haven't heard it. Ultimately belief in Jesus' miracles, resurrection, godliness, or really anything apart from his existence and popularity can only be believed by desire or poor reasoning. Even if we accept testimonies found in the Bible as genuine statements, they are merely anecdotes from people who believe. People are wrong about what they see often. The reports from Fatima say the sun moved around the sky in circles, which is not possible, and would have to have been noticed throughout half the planet. Clearly the witnesses were mistaken. Or more likely had the sun burned into their retinas from staring at it, and it followed their vision around wherever they looked. I don't see how someone could come to believe in the miracle claims in the Bible by any means other than desire, or desire combined with poor reasoning.
Fátima is even worse than that. Accounts vary, we have people who saw Jesus, and/or other biblical figures and/or saints depending on the person in question, it varied; and the man who did the famous statue saw a very detailed vision of rainbow steps going off into heaven that no one else saw. And my favorite, a very devout lady who saw absolutely nothing and wrote to a friend to the effect that it was her lack of faith! Oh and as for the “sun dancing”, the prediction did not mention that. It was just about some sign in the sky. The interesting thing about Fátima is that you can trace the process of fabrication of the myth. But the material has not be translated so you need be Portuguese.
@@Nocturnalux Thanks. I am aware of the many failures of the Fatima story. I pointed to the simplest to debunk, in that any actual movement of the sun would be necessarily viewable beyond that one place. Much of the press reporting were happy to sensationalize the event for viewership, or were already predisposed to advancing the claim.
Dr. William Lane Craig. "The best Christian apologist alive". Remember that the only thing you need to do to be the best is to be better than the rest.
Good for him, but he gives nutters a large audience to spew nonsense and that’s unfortunate that so many people are convinced by bad arguments because they were on Rogan. I had to stop listening to many years ago because he’s not great at holding some people’s feet to the fire and there’s so much confirmation biases on his podcast.
“People lie to get out of trouble, but I don’t want to get into trouble.” Bro, ,we literally have people from a religion who flew planes into buildings for their God and there are thousands of followers sitting in Guantánamo Bay lying about what they know.
It’s kinda like arguing that a thing happened during a certain president’s term and we can prove the thing happened because we can prove that particular person was indeed president at the time.
@@nathanwhite704 I mean, it depends on what you mean by dying. I'm really quite alright with dying if I go into it knowing I will resume my life a few days from now, not a huge deal. I think most people would allow that kind of "death" for relatively minor benefits for themselves or others.
@@agimasoschandir What do we mean by die? If you mean that his physical body ceased to function, then I don't really see why not having a physical body would make him no longer God.
@@agimasoschandir nonsense, If he was God before death he still would be after. He was The Logos before becoming the man Jesus according to the gospel of John. You don't want to debate that doctrine with me I was a Christian mystic and universalist for years before i left the church.
I made it through for Paulogia's commentary, but I agree. When someone says "The broken clock is right twice a day." That's about how I feel about Joe Rogan, I know he CAN tell the truth, but most of the time, he decides lies are better.
@@Dustin_Binswhat evidence do you have for him lying “most of the time”? Genuine question. I disagree with Joe on a lot and sometimes when I’m listening (like when he had this guy on) I’m screaming in the car because some of his guests are so ridiculous, but he’s not a journalist…he’s an entertainer. Even so, I see him as frequently misguided, not a liar. I’m curious to see the evidence you have to make such a claim though!
The amount of Christian apologist channels claiming that Joe is coming around to the possibility of the Bible being true because of all the “amazing points” his religious guests are making is laughable.
You would think that eventually we would get the point that we can't create a god that doesn't require shutting off your higher brain functions to believe in.
I’m familiar with LBB from whom I think is the originator, Brian Dalton (Mr. Deity). I’m curious; has LBB become a thing, or did you hear it from the same source?
It's kind of amazing that Joe of all people had so many good questions. This is the guy who believed kitty litter in schools and horse paste curing covid.
I can't get over all the ppl shiting on Joe Rogan. He has interesting people on his podcast and asking interesting questions if you plebs took the time to listen to a few interviews you might know instead of going with your predetermined opinions. Yes he has his own views of topics and some guests are less worthy of listening to but that's where you use your brain when you are listening.
Everyone these days just reflexively wants people who they don’t agree with on anything relating to politics or religion to be banished and erased from all public forums and media.
We have better attestation that Joseph Smith suffered persecution, torture and was ultimately killed specifically because of his religious claims than we have evidence that any of Jesus' apostles even existed. And Joseph Smith also believed in the resurrection of Jesus. So if Stephen Myer's logic is as solid as he thinks it is, he should convert to Mormonism.
@SirSicCrusader Big J is said to have raised from the dead and due to come back at some point because he wants to kill most hoo-mans and drink all the whiskey. That won't do. Bigfoot has no such lofty ambitions, therefore he exists.
After that rambling intro from Rogan I was hoping that Meyer would just respond with "Can you ask me all those questions again, but one by one, giving me a chance to speak". The guy is so infuriating, how does anyone think he is a great interviewer? He engages with anyone he disagrees with like a dismissive teen, and anyone he agrees with he just sits there gawping saying "wow" with no push back as they peddle increasingly conspiratorial nonsense.
He gives a large group of people what they want. I would say that what his audience wants is to skip the hard work of using critical thinking, at the same time being told how smart they are, and that everyone else are brainwashed sheep. It is Dunning Krueger, the podcast. Questioning your beliefs is hard and often feels bad, and requires you to have to refine them and being nuanced in your statements. Skipping all that, and just pretending you did feels much better. @@w8m4n
4:50 Hi Paul - What historical standards are you using exactly to distinguish that Jesus's trial, death, and resurrection are all categorically distinct from one another?
When a Bigfoot believer goes looking for Bigfoot, the sound of a twig snapping in the night is all the proof he needs.😊❤
and probably conclude from the sound if it is a male, a female or just a juvenile Bigfoot.😂😂😂🐒
That's actually funny 😅
BIGFOOT WAS IN MY BACKYARD LAST NIGHT??!!??!! 😱
If you do shoot Bigfoot don’t do it in the state of Washington since it’s a protected species there
@littlebitofhope1489 lol did you get to interview him? 😅
The clip of WLC “if there’s just one chance in a million…” never gets old and always puts a smile on my face. Thanks Paul.
Every time I see that WLC clip my brain inserts Jim Carrey in Dumb & Dumber saying, "So you're saying there's a chance?" immediately after it.
WLC is pictured in the dictionary under the definition of "pompous ass"
Imagine Crail wants others to reffer at him as "Doctor". Ugh, not just ignorant and dumb but narcissist aswell.
@@hippipdipWLC waking up in Helheim: "Wait a minute, what was all that one in a million talk"?
I should just stop trying to make sense of that quote.
It baffles me how grown adults can debate whether a man 2000 years ago died and rose from the dead because some men wrote about it.
It baffles the hell out me too. I regard the concept of resurrection as mythological fiction that is also kinda childish.
Agreed. Men in robes albeit!
Honestly, if you think about it logically for 10 seconds, it falls apart completely.
Jesus' sacrifice is the most pointless act in all fiction.
If his father, the entity referenced as "god" in John 3:16, was truly omnipotent, why couldn't he. Hange the laws and forgive people once and for all?
If Jesus was the son of a lesser God, sent down to appease the lawgiver, then worshipping Jeaus is a violation of the first commandment.
That's the power of religion.
@tripolarmdisorder7696 Also, if you died for our sins and you're not dead then isn't that like a bounced check?
I've heard that at least 500 people saw Elvis alive and walking after his death.
And millions of hindus saw this "Baba" dude (forgot exactly the name) perform all kind of "miracles" during his lifetime just in our recent history and nobody is talking about it and would even consider them manipulated and have some level of ignorance to some extent. But apply this same scenario 2,000 years ago and with many less witnesses and you are just a devout christian and you find it that more logical 😂.
I believe! Where do I send my 10%?
@@AntitheistHuman Satya Sai Baba. My mother visited his ashram back in the 1970s and saw him "materialize" ash, making it seemingly appear from nowhere in his hands, and then passing bits out to people. She was an amused skeptic and enjoyed the very convincing show. She also said to me that she thought to herself, "I don't want a bunch of ash. But I want him to look me in the eyes." When got to her in the crowd he didn't give her any ash and he paused, looking her in the eyes. He was very good at reading his crowd. A real professional.
Was gonna like this but it currently has 69 likes.....nice.
I visited his Ashram in 94. With my mom and stepdad. Just for the experience. I got enlightened. Well I came back much lighter from e coli. @@fepeerreview3150
It's amazing how Rogan can do these basic push-back comments/questions on a topic like this, but when someone tells him kids are using kitty litter boxes in schools because they identify as cats, he just swallows it whole.
Joe heard the story from his wife's teacher-friend who claimed the litter boxes were at HER school and then on a subsequent episode he stated on air that he changed his mind and doesn't think the story is true. If a friend told you a funny story about something that he witnessed at work would you assume he was lying? He's not an idiot.
@@ssl3546But he is.
And if my friend told me something so fucking absurd as that, yes, I would think they were EXAGGERATING.
@@ssl3546He’s certainly a little gullible, for example he recently had Graham Hancock back on for a third time I think? Something more than he deserves (if you don’t know Graham Hancock pushes the idea there was a globe conquering civilization right before the Ice age and that wiped out multiple species of animal and built things like the Pyramids, and he believes this empire was Atlantis).
@@thysonsacclaimHe's not that stupid or that bad a guy. Though he does goof and blunder quite abit. Take him with a grain of salt.
But he's had some really good guests on.
@@thermite547Miniminuteman on TH-cam has a series debunking Hancock's theories. It's long and in parts but a great watch. Shows how Netflix And Hancock are misrepresenting the people they interviewed.
WLC's "I do not care whether it is most certainly not true, it makes me feel so good that I will believe it" was the greatest demonstration of honesty a christian could make.
I was surprised that already Martin Luther said "True Faith does not need evidence".
Both demonstrate that christianity is not based on logic and understanding, but purely on appealing to emotion.
Not even that. They are dealing with an interpretation of an emotion, which removes it another step. Many times the person is even told by another person what their emotions mean. eg, If you feel this it means god. It's not just lack of logic it is the addition of deception. The last thing they add is fear of eternal torture if you interpret your emotions in a way that differs from what they tell you. So it's deceptive, controlling and manipulative. Basically it's evil, which is really ironic.
👍👍👍 Very, very well said.
"Faith" is REQUIRED to "Believe In Lies" and that is why religions demand faithfulness to maintain Power and Control over their Subjects
WLC is doing some great work at the moment..
@@thunderbird3694 I would disagree with that assertion. Children believe in Santa every year and their parents (and the adults around them) will go to great lengths to convince the children Santa is real - including providing "evidence" to back up the lie.
People believe all kinds of things and have all sorts of reasons for doing so. My mother believes that putting half a red onion in her sock overnight will "draw out" the "bacteria" and cure colds. And she'll show the black onion that's started decaying as "proof" that it works. And yes, she insists it has to be red onions. I have no idea where she got this idea (no one else in her family believes her or does anything like it), but the confirmation bias has her continuing to swear by it.
Humans are not rational beings and we're very prone to confirmation bias. Religion preys on that part of our psychology. I do have a pet hypothesis about Boomers and lead poisoning. But let's just say testing that hypothesis would require access to a lot of Boomers' medical records and I don't have that. lol
Edit: I should add that the reason why I have that hypothesis is because Boomers seem particularly susceptible to a lot of very ridiculous ideas and beliefs - including stuff where they should just plain know better. My mother went to public school. She can articulate a decent explanation of Germ Theory. And yet... Red onions. I just don't understand it.
Wait, Pilate and Tiberius were real people? Well, now I'm convinced that a magic rabbi flew up into the sky.
I'm not convinced you exist. Therefore you don't.
I'm not sure I exist...am I mentioned??😂😐
@@Justas399Dang! So much for my religion based on the very real ianchrisholm5756!!
Did Biggus Dickus exist too I wonder. 🤔
@@Jaytee. We have numerous contemporaneous accounts of individuals who were fed to lions because they found Dickus' name risible.
3:55 Atheists answer to climate changes: "We screwed up, we need to do something about it."
Theists answer: "God will fix it, he won't let us die."
Tell me again who is accountable for his actions?
There's "the end times are close, this is God's plan." as well.
And if they actually believe in the hell stuff, why have children then?
That was never my thinking, even as a theist believing in a 6000 year old world.
Atheists answer: Trust the appeal to authority fallacy or you're a crazy conspiracy theorist!
You'll NEVER debate live or you'll lose the debate. You know it, ree-ree
@@derp8575
What is the appeal to authority fallacy?
Is it, say, where experts on the climate agree that the evidence overwhelming suggests present climate change is real and caused by human activities, and then laymen think it's more reasonable to believe that view is more likely true than the alternatives?
@10:29 Wolfhart Pannenburg was a THEOLOGIAN, NOT a historian. He was William Lane Craig's PhD dissertation supervisor at the University of München.
good point... something I've learned since recording the video.
Oh my, if he’s judged by his fruit …
@@Paulogia Are you aware of the criticism that Andrew Ter Ern Loke has made of your and Bart Erham's skeptical positions? He has also criticized other skeptical scholars on his TH-cam channel.
@04:00 LOL. I rolled my eyes and said out loud, "You just want to sin," in precise unison with @Paulogia.
This is how to recognize a trope-it doesn't get any clearer than that.
Given what we know about modern cults; power struggles, petty in-fighting, general secrecy and subterfuge, and healthy doses of sexual intrigue, how can we not apply that same lens to a bronze age cult? These were human beings prone to all the same human faults we experience today. A leader dies and there is a re-shuffling of the cult's pecking order. Who's in charge? Who did dear leader love the most? Who is going to take over now? That is a fertile field for claims to legitimacy and power. "I just saw him". "I just saw him and he nodded to me". "I just saw him and he nodded to me and told me I'm the new leader".
Your point is valid, but Jesus' time was more than 1,000 years after the end of the bronze age.
What difference does that make? People in the Roman era were only slightly less ignorant then they were a thousand years earlier.
@MisterLumpkin - You are correct as we have at least 25 gospels that were written because at least 24 thought they knew better and they had the truth. Then some came together and agreed that 4 contradicting fan fiction stories are better than the 21 other fan fiction stories. We have a letter from Paul warning about forgeries (the irony is that the letter is considered to be a forgery.). Half of the letters of Paul's are forgeries (as they have several authors ). So people tried to use Paul's name to force their opinion on everyone.
@@Alltime2050 We are the same people for 250,000 years with the same brain capacity. Not to mention that so many Americans believe in an invisible Santa Claus looking for their car keys and thousands of contradicting denominations claim to believe in the same book.
@@TorianTammas Our ancestors weren't any more stupid than people are capable of being today. That wasn't the problem. They were ignorant. There's a world of difference between those two things.
For the majority of those 250,000 years you referenced, our ancestors lived in an ancient reality when so little was known about the observable world that almost anything a person could imagine might possibly be true. They had no choice other than to substitute myth and superstition for logic and reason. That was the only way they could survive their own intelligence without going insane.
Today, the only way for superstition to survive is by attempting to recreate that ancient ignorance. Unfortunately, that's having the opposite effect of the natural variety. Instead of keeping their minds under control, intentional ignorance is driving them crazy.
All Religions are the anachronistic remnants of the ancient world. Christians are only slightly more intellectually and emotionally evolved than people were in the Roman era.
They will not help humanity build a sustainable future because that's the last thing they want. Their endless culture wars are designed to keep humanity spinning in circles. In the meantime, their denial of science and the climate crisis have turned them into the greatest man-made threat facing the survival of our species in human history.
Any superstition attempting to lead humanity to a self-inflicted end-time/extinction event is the epitome of pure evil. I don't care how holy or immortal they think they are.
I grew up in a Catholic school system where they used a thick foundation of "there is SO MUCH historical evidence for Jesus" that when i found out that there is really almost none (like you mentioned) the foundation of my faith cracked, and in the 5-8 years that followed my entire faith was gone.
To me, it really is just painfully obvious that Christian claims aren't true
Well, if it helps, you can just check wikipedia to see that most scholars believe Jesus existed. Besides, what consists of "almost none"? Do you believe that Julius Caesar existed? If you do, why? The oldest records of him are from almost a millennium after his death. Still, almost every scholar believes Julius Caesar existed. It's all about perspective. It's your choice what sources you want to believe, but please be consistent in it.
@annekekramer3835 I understand the general consensus is that a teacher named Jesus most likely existed. It's also the consensus that there's no evidence for Joseph of aramathea nor his tomb at all. There's also consensus in there being zero justification for "all the apostles being martyred" as all but Peter and John were lost to history. They're are no records outside the 4 gospels (which conflict despite plagiarizing each other) if Jesus's trial, execution or burial.
Those are the kinds of things in talking about. I was taught all the stories in the gospel were strongly verified by historical records.
Now, the comparison of Jesus's historicity to Julius Ceasar's is a complete red herring. We could get into how dishonest the claim is, but countries all over the world wrote of Cesar in gis time. We have coins, stairs, paintings. There is none of that for Jesus. BUT that's all missing the point: whether Cesar existed or not is of absolutely no consequence to anyone. So to comparing him to Jesus is completely meaningless anyway.
@@annekekramer3835 What evidence do we have for Julius Caesar? We have temples. We have statues. We have coins. We have his own writings and attestations by contemporaries. What evidence do we have for the historical existence of Jesus? Just hagiographies by believers who were convinced he was the pre-existing Son of God or God himself.
It's important to note that there are historical documents from the time or shortly after that do mention Jesus and his crucifixion. These writings come from a variety of sources, including non-Christians, which provide some historical evidence for his existence and the events surrounding his life. There are Roman historical records, like those of Tacitus, a Roman historian, and Pliny the Younger, a Roman governor. They both refer to Christ and early Christian communities. Tacitus, in his 'Annals,' mentions Christ's execution under Pontius Pilate. Pliny's letters to Emperor Trajan discuss early Christian practices and worship of Christ. The New Testament itself, contains multiple books and letters written by different authors. These texts provide accounts of Jesus' life, crucifixion, and resurrection. What's interesting is that these accounts were written by different people at different times and in different places.
@@edwardmiessner6502 Paul clashed with Jesus' brother at Antioch.
Man, you really know your position is weak when a guy like Joe Rogan can dismantle it with some ad hoc examination.
Rogan is sharper then you might think.
@@reasonablespeculation3893No. It's more like how a broken clock is occasionally accurate.
@@garrettlogue4249 I'm not familiar with this Rogan guy, but his questions seemed pretty sharp
@@juanausensi499 He's a delusional stand up comedian who is consistently wrong and buys into pretty much any conspiracy theory he hears. Normally he just goes along with whatever the guest says no matter how crazy it is, with zero attempt to call them out on anything or fact check unless he just personally doesn't like what they're saying. He'll often argue with guests who are actually experts just because he doesn't like the facts, then blindly just believe anything some conspiracy nut says because he likes how it sounds.
@@juanausensi499 Rogan questioned the Covid Narrative. He had opposing voices (medical Docs, scientists, journalists) on his show. He had professionals that excepted the entire Covid agenda also.
He questioned and poked at them also.
Some think this make makes him a, conspiracy theory driven, fool.
In this book it says these extraordinary things happened thousands of years ago... things that have never been proven to happen in history, ever, though lots of myths exist that sound like these things in lots of traditions before these things... However, this one in particular is real, because we have learned that some parts of the story were real back then - never mind that happens with all of the other myth stories as well
Zeus lives on Mount Olympus. Mount Olympus exists. Therefore, Zeus Exists.
Spaghetti exists
@@jimburton5592 You rang?
This is just like Spiderman. It must be a true story because New York is a real place.
It really is that crazy. Like believing in the Tooth Fairy.
20:56 One quick correction: Stephen is not a scientist. His doctorate is in the _philosophy_ of science.
... he doesnt?!!
Good lord...
No that is false. He is (or was) a scientist. He worked as a geophysicist in his younger years.
@@TyrellWellickEcorp citation needed.
@@hotblackdesiato3022 All you need to do is look it up, it’s not that hard.
It's time Paul appears on Joe Rogan ❤
So he can embarrass himself and push personal opinion as fact?
@@jamiehudson3661
Oh so like you. You are projecting.
@@jamiehudson3661Then he would fit right in with 99% of the people on Joe Rogan.
That would be an interesting thing to watch, as long as it's civil for a good debate.
@leob3447 Did you watch the entire original interview? If not, you can't state that I am wrong and merely attacking the person.
I particularly bristle at WLC calling your past Christianity "brain dead" when his entire career is using the optics of academia and words laypeople don't understand to trick people into thinking the science/philosophy says things it doesn't. "Brain dead" Christians pay that man's bills, he should have some respect. Also, they aren't brain dead, obviously, and neither were you (or I), just misguided by sincere non-experts like our parents and grifting predators like WLC.
So your personal incapacity to understand the terminology someone uses means they are "tricking you"?
Honestly floored at hearing Joe Rogan ask such fantastic questions. It sounds like he actually did a great job with at least that part of the interview. Credit where credit is due, I guess.
Never understood why his gets so much shit. Man just gets stoned and talks to people lol
Why guess?
@@fisharepeopletoo9653 He engages in a bit of pseudoscience. The kind that’s virtually harmless when it’s just and your buddies, but Joe is on a gigantic stage. If the consumer wasn’t so dumb Joes thoughts wouldn’t be a big deal. Just my take on it.
@@MacLaw3084but that's all he says the podcast is. Never once has he said the podcast should be taken seriously, he actually often says he known nothing. The problem is not Joe or the podcast format, but the idiotic listeners who worship Joe.
The episodes with Alex Jones for example, have become some of the most entertaining pieces of media to me when you just vaguely listen while doing other shit
@@SkyrimChicken Yeah I don’t disagree. I was only offering an explanation to the question.
7:20 The existence of New York and Barack Obama corroborates the existence of Spiderman!
Again we see an apologist use the fact that the bible references local people and places as "proof" of the supernatural claims of he bible -- when all it actually shows is the people who wrote the bible were aware of their surroundings.
Just the idea that people wouldn't give up their lives in a lie for an ideology is incredibly naïve. We've seen many examples of what can happen when people believe "the ends justify the means." As if that were the only explanation anyway. Then of course the whole "There really was a Pontus Pilate, so therefore Jesus rose from the dead" spiel. That's like someone a thousand years from now claiming the covid pandemic was a hoax because they found a bunch of youtube videos from conspiracy theorists.
More like people 1000 years from now thinking Spiderman was real because they found a text from today and researched it and discovered that New York was a real place.
The number of ridiculous things I would have to believe with standards as low as Meyer would make my brain explode, I don't know how he does it.
god must be paying him really well.
@@HarryNicNicholas The wealthy donors keeping the Discovery Institute afloat despite zero actual discoveries certainly are paying him well. I'm sure the book sales don't hurt either. There's no shortage of Christians willing to fork over a few bucks for an "authority" to tell them their beliefs aren't silly.
Meyer's paycheque depends on him promoting those lies. That's what keeps him very well motivated. 🙄
@@EatHoneyBeeHappy The "wealthy donors" are mainly trusts, think tanks and similar tax evasion mechanisms connected to the resources sector and the military industrial complex. This point can never be highlighted enough. The level of scrutiny of this point undertaken by Christians is wildly disproportionate to the level of obfuscation of its funding sources undertaken by the Discovery Institute.
most apologists like turek and WLC are multi millionaires....legalised conmen
Thanks!
Welcome!
Joe “you just have someone’s testimony, though, right?”
Steven “we’ll, here’s a testimony that I find very convincing”
Paul I need more!! This was awesome, I could’ve kept watching for hours (Maybe a part 2…?)
Keep up the great work!
People lie all the time, and get into trouble. Look, people lie all the time. All the time. There's no reason to believe that these characters didn't lie about their so-called experiences.
I agree, but some people don't always lie ALL the time. You just have to take things with "a grain of salt" like the saying goes.
@@cmblight7 what?
@pavld335 I'm saying that not all people lie lol, you make it seem like we lie 24/7, I'm just saying that we should just take people's opinions or statements not too lightly but at the same time still be able to understand...if that makes sense...
@@cmblight7 religists lie all the time, anyone who is threatened by eternity of being burned alive is not going to annoy god by being honest.
We have 25 contradicting stories and only four made it in a story collection. The characters are they named Spiderman, Harry Potter or Jesus do what the author wants them to do as they are his creations.
It feels weird to agree with Joey Rogan.
That's his whole shtick tho, he rides the fence like it's his fetish. He gets less agreeable the older he gets tho
"Jamie pull up that clip of him agreeing with me" 😂
@JD-wu5pf it's funny that he's done so many psychedelics but his guests still are tripping harder
@@JD-wu5pf He used to have people like Sean Carroll, Brian Cox, and Lawrence Krauss on. Although I think the quality of his guests has decreased I was pleasantly surprised with his treatment of Stephen Meyers as opposed to his fanboy blowing of Jordan Peterson.
Joe definitely has a bent and a bias towards conspiracies, and he admits it himself, and I disagree with him and his guests quite often as well. But I've come to believe that Rogan may be the best interviewer working today. So many media interviewers ask bullsh-- questions designed to provoke specific responses and their subjects spend most of their time reframing the question before answering that it's just a waste of time.
Rogan asks good solid questions, and then mostly gets out of the way to let his subject respond as fully and completely as they like, and then Rogan is usually good about asking smart followups without being confrontational about it. Whatever one thinks about Rogan's personal beliefs, I don't see that in any other media interviewers working today.
The moment an individual cites WLC as a source for affirming their belief, he loses all credibility.
Clearly the individual is not interested in truth, he only cares about being reassured.
The only Christian apologist that I have heard be honest, and say if the evidence shows me it's wrong I would not be a Christian is Dr. Stephen Boyce. He hates the term apologist because most apologists. I find his coverage of history interesting. WLC, McDowell and Strobell not worth my time.
@@njspencer79 Well said. Thank you. I am no expert on biblical matters, but I like to think that I can recognise fraudsters and liars well enough to discount them. My expertise lies in Napoleonic Warfare. I love history enough to know that religion has been at the root of most conflicts. Not once have I ever found anything that demonstrates which god, if any, is real. As far as I can tell, religion is dangerous, invented and vile.
Godzilla destroys actual Japanese cities, the models of which are rendered in great detail, you can recognize individual ones. So by that token, Godzilla must be real.
@@Nocturnalux I am not sure who you are replying to. I am not saying I agree w/ Boyce I am history buff and I find his podcasts on early Christian history interesting. Not that I hold the same belief as he.
@@njspencer79 I’m replying to the OP. It’s just another example of the “city does not mean supernatural event”.
Spiderman is the go-to example, I use Godzilla because the franchise delights in recreating Japanese cities, with their landmarks, and then destroying them. It’s just a matter of personal preference as I love Godzilla and don’t care for superheroes.
I love that Paul said he was going to use that WLC wager quote a lot, and he's holding to that promise 🤣
good ol' Low-Bar-Bill
How can I be held accountable before someone who knew what I would do?
Someone who made this world such that I had very little choice in doing what ever I did.
The idea is ridiculous.
Yes. And according to some doctrines, it's not even what you do, but what you believe. I can force myself to listen to the evidence, but I can't force myself to believe it if I don't, and He made me a skeptic to boot. For a just god, that isn't playing very fair.
Person A writing that person B believes in a resurrection can not show anything else than person B's belief in a resurrection.
Hitler thought he would win the war, we have documents that verify that he really believed that and we have evidence that the war took place. Should we conclude that he won?
How could this even be an argument?
It's sophistry, which is a form of argument, albeit one taken up with the intent to deceive onlookers.
Joe is right. I have some blurry footage of Jesus walking through my backyard.
Edit: nevermind it's just my drunk neighbor
Mexican?
I could listen to Joe for minutes.
Wow.
Your stomach is stronger than mine.
😂😂😂 samesies
Wow you guys are so cool
@@jedi77palmer Yeah, I know.
Being a talking lobster is pretty amazing. 🦞😎
I say this a lot, but someone saying they believe the Gospels are true because Rome existed is like saying Harry Potter's true because London exists.
People have literally given their lives for many 'different' cults within our own lifetimes!!!
It won't ever stop. It's the human condition. Whether it's a religious cult, or a secular cult.
@@theboombody Indeed. I just couldn't believe it when the guy made the argument that people ONLY sacrifice themselves for the one true religion!!!
I have seen Christians trying to get J. Warner Wallace into Joe's show. After seeing how easily (an almost certainly intoxicated) JR dismantled Stephen's points, I too want the Good Detective to appear on the show.
*I didn't want to call Stephen C. Meyer a liar, but I'm justified in doing so after watching that interview.*
Meyer said that Josephus wrote (16:35 ) that James was martyred for his witness to the resurrection of Jesus. But Josephus did _not_ say that, _and Meyer knows this._ (Or else Meyer is lying about having carefully studied the texts.) Either way - he's yet another knowing and conscious liar, dishonestly defending his religious beliefs. 🙄
Paul here is being far too generous to Meyer at ( 18:24 ). It's not "simply an error". _Meyer knows that he's telling a lie._
Look, the entire sky-god system is a lie. End to end, just not true. Defending one part of the lie or another part of it hardly matters.
@TheMahayanistNope only the first reference is considered partially authentic at best by most scholars.
In a court of law “eye witness testimony isn’t always reliable”. In apologetics “second and third hand testimony is indisputable proof”.
“We find reports”, wow, convincing.
Let's not forget when they talk about how translations make theur book more difficult to understand... who (according to their own book) caused us to have all these different languages?
If only Joe asked these kinda questions to vaccine skeptics
💯
Has you listened to him talking to covid vaccine sceptics? Doesn't seem like it.
@@jedi77palmer yep. Like the time he got fact checked to his face about myocarditis and refused to admit he was wrong. All that jazz about ivermectin...
@@atticusrex2691 yeah it's just used as a horse dewormer🙄
@jedi77palmer this noise again.
Sure, ivermectin has some other uses, but the use it's most often associated with is as a horse dewormer. So it wasn't out of pocket at all to rip people for using horse dewormer. Especially since it wasn't proven to do anything for COVID, and since the anti-vaxx crowd often railed against the lack of proof for vaccine efficacy.
His gripe about the "media portrayal" was akin to someone being mad over an accusation they're using a fever reducer just because Tylenol has other purposes. Total tripe
Thanks for the video :)
Jamie pull up that video of the bear eating the corpse of Jesus while high on DMT
I nearly choked on my coffee. Well done.
Nice and highly entertaining video. I think Joe Rogan is familiar with your TH-cam channel, Paul! Maybe he should have you on as a guest.
thanks! what makes you think he's familiar with my TH-cam channel?
No reason, really...it seems like a lot of Joe's questions are questions you've been asking for a while now.@@Paulogia
Good job, Paul. You are a treasure to the former Christian counter-apologist community.
Why do none believers scholars know Bible history more than Christains?😁
@@hackman669 Because they investigate outside the Christian bubble.... with intellectual honesty.
Thank you for doing this one! Spot on as always
"Another is William Lane Craig".
Me: "Sigh"
Paul: "Sigh"
Yep, been watching too many of these videos.
Love your content.
As anyone who has dealt with the 'legal system' knows, "personal testimony" is one of the very WORST forms of evidence.
Paulogia, excellent! I've seen your resurrected playlist and am further convinced that we've a book of fables!👍💙💖🥰✌
@02:57 Oh dear. Your Syriac ms. is upside down. Also, note that while Syriac is a form of Aramaic, it is still considered its own language, with some variation in its own syntax.
ruh roh. something told me I should check those out further.
@Paulogia you are in good company. Many book publishers have printed dust jackets for trade books about ancient literature with manuscripts appearing upside-down. THAT'S embarrassing.
I dont have a lot of respect for Joe... but i have to give him credit for putting Steve's feet to the fire. And it def looked like Steve was squirming from his questions. Def a Mr. Following The Script kind of guy
Keep up this kind of work!
The fact that Joe Rogan, someone with little to no debate experience, was able to pick apart most of the BS claims just proves how illogical the resurrection is
Wait a minute. I don't recall ever having any sort of motivation to not believe in a God and or Jesus.
I simply don't believe based on the outrageous claims and the fact that we don't have good evidence for a god
"People do not lie to get themselves into trouble" oh yeah? Huh, what about the people that try to confess to murders even tho it can be proven they didn't do it? Sometimes more than 1 person tries to falsely take credit for the same crime.
I feel bad for people raised into churches where unchallengeable doctrine, non sequiturs, and motte and bailey arguments abound.
Why is god so shy in modern times..!
The Bible said people didn't believe in Jesus even when he did miracles right in front of them. They asked him for bigger signs than the ones he gave. Look at the transition from Matthew 15 to Matthew 16.
IKR?
I recently learned a bit about Joseph Smith, the founder of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons).
He was killed basically for the behavior that he used his beliefs to try and justify.
He could have feasibly saved himself by denying said beliefs.
When you have the people of 19th century Missouri offended at the way you're treating your women and children in the name of God, I think that might be a fair outcome.
JR could ask himself all those questions and tell us why he would use his platform to mislead and lie to people for his own benefit.
You could ask the same questions to FOX… and especially CNN, BBC and MSNBC.
Rogan has probably the least misleading podcast out there.😂
@@ramigilneas9274 Fries are the least unhealthy food you can get at a fast food place. Still means you probably shouldn't get fast food.
What a load mate
@@XealotCoils
Unfortunately even the best restaurants closed long ago... so the least unhealthy fast food is already the healthiest food you can get.
@@ramigilneas9274 there being no competition for something better doesnt make fries a food you should include in your daily diet.
Shit is shit, no matter how hard you polish it.
That fact that the bulk of the statements SM put out where inaccurate, says it all. Belief isn't built on proof, it's built on desire.
Isn't it interesting that the Bible is largely based on the witness of Paul, who only saw a vision of Jesus?
I think people talk about the dubious nature of Paul's vision a fair bit, but it seems like they don't ask "Why is Paul the best we have in the Bible?"
I mean, if God wanted to leave a lasting witness to point to Jesus as divine, shouldn't he have preserved text from some of the 1st-hand corporeal witnesses of the risen Jesus?
...seems like poor planning. One might even say imperfect planning ;)
If one simple studies all the instances of Paul's incident on the road to Damascus, one can clearly see it's all fabrication. Nothing matches up.
Plus, Paul owes his status in Christianity entirely to a supposed direct intervention by Jesus on the road to Damascus. Prior to that direct intervention, Paul admits that he persecuted and executed Christians.
If Jesus really did decide that a direct intervention for Paul would work to make Paul a Christian, it seems odd that Jesus would stop at just that one direct intervention, given how well direct intervention was shown to work in that one case.
Is Jesus just too lazy to intervene with the rest of us, _or was Paul merely lying his arse off about the road to Damascus story?_ 🙄
Stephen Myers made Joe Rogan sound smart... 😮
I didn't even know that was possible.
Not even mad...
Big foot died for my sins. All praise Big foot!
Praise the monkey. Brothers if man 👨 🐒
Just for clarification (I grew up and was catholic for about 35 years) the catholic position on the "brothers of Jesus" are that the root word that is used in the bible is the same word used to describe cousins and other close relatives. It was also used as a term of endearment kind of like today when we say something like "a band of brothers" or "this guy is my brother."
@@livamath6733well I'm only addressing what Paul said about catholics thinking his brothers are half brothers and that part isn't accurate according to catholic tradition. Honestly, I'm someone who has very low belief that Jesus was a singular real person so honestly it doesn't really matter
Holy Crap, what a question.... How can anyone listen to this monologue and think it's an interview?
Every single topic always comes back to DMT or mushrooms. I'm sure one day soon he'll be talking to someone about the troubles of parenthood and within 5 minutes Joe will say, "But what about giving DMT to your kids so they can see god?"
"A baby sitter? Have you considered letting the machine elves watch you kids?"
"Punishment for being bad? How about we give them DMT and let the psyche of the universe judge their action and that giant praying mantis carry out any punishments. Kids love giant a spiritual praying mantis coming to judge them. Ego death is great for toddlers, especially when a giant praying mantis from the DMT plane appears and literally murders their ego and eats it in front of them."
Meyer isn't mistaken, he is outright lying.
*Thank you. Meyer is a bare faced liar in that interview.*
Meyer must know that Josephus did _not_ write that James died defending his resurrection claim. He's pathetic. 🙄
Please correct me if I'm wrong. Was not the bible compiled by Paul/Saul, who recovered from blindness and had a revelation and lived seventy five years after the death of Jesus?
No one person compiled the New Testament, that was a process that took hundreds of years. Was most of the New Testament written by Paul and his followers? Yes. The story goes that Paul and Peter were killed as scapegoats under Nero in AD 64.
@@robertwarner-ev7wp Thanks for filling in the gap
It seems stating one’s belief with confidence, means it happened
6:14 Yeah you missed someone. Supposedly there was one Yeshua of Nazareth present at the trails, but there's no archaeological evidence of his existence, either.
Joe Rogan does a good job on an interview is truly a sign of the end times.
I'm guessing you don't watch Rogan, just know him as a right wing loon from media?
Most people, even those who don't like him, don't think that. There is a long list of other, sound reasons why you should take what he says with a big chunk or rock salt. Especially on subjects he is not well informed on. everything but MMA and stand up basically. @@fisharepeopletoo9653
It really is crazy to find myself agreeing with Rogan.
Two points:
First regarding Joe Rogan. Joe asked some very good skeptical questions here. But in my limited experience, he doesn't seem to do this for all subjects, and often seems absurdly credulous to claims made by his guests. I suspect he has listened to enough skeptics to convince him that the Bible stories are not literal, and are simply claims being made, and here he is repeating the skeptical questions he has heard before.
The second addresses the guest's statements. Here he seems quite ready to accept that claims alone won't justify belief, but then goes on to justify his belief through claims alone. He often simply uses different claims and labels them evidence. If there is a better example of someone believing because they want to, I haven't heard it.
Ultimately belief in Jesus' miracles, resurrection, godliness, or really anything apart from his existence and popularity can only be believed by desire or poor reasoning. Even if we accept testimonies found in the Bible as genuine statements, they are merely anecdotes from people who believe. People are wrong about what they see often. The reports from Fatima say the sun moved around the sky in circles, which is not possible, and would have to have been noticed throughout half the planet. Clearly the witnesses were mistaken. Or more likely had the sun burned into their retinas from staring at it, and it followed their vision around wherever they looked.
I don't see how someone could come to believe in the miracle claims in the Bible by any means other than desire, or desire combined with poor reasoning.
Fátima is even worse than that. Accounts vary, we have people who saw Jesus, and/or other biblical figures and/or saints depending on the person in question, it varied; and the man who did the famous statue saw a very detailed vision of rainbow steps going off into heaven that no one else saw.
And my favorite, a very devout lady who saw absolutely nothing and wrote to a friend to the effect that it was her lack of faith!
Oh and as for the “sun dancing”, the prediction did not mention that. It was just about some sign in the sky.
The interesting thing about Fátima is that you can trace the process of fabrication of the myth. But the material has not be translated so you need be Portuguese.
@@Nocturnalux Thanks. I am aware of the many failures of the Fatima story. I pointed to the simplest to debunk, in that any actual movement of the sun would be necessarily viewable beyond that one place.
Much of the press reporting were happy to sensationalize the event for viewership, or were already predisposed to advancing the claim.
Dr. William Lane Craig.
"The best Christian apologist alive".
Remember that the only thing you need to do to be the best is to be better than the rest.
Hats off to Rogan..... dude seems like a windsock that just goes with who ever is in front of him. He dismantled him, very simply I might add
Good for him, but he gives nutters a large audience to spew nonsense and that’s unfortunate that so many people are convinced by bad arguments because they were on Rogan. I had to stop listening to many years ago because he’s not great at holding some people’s feet to the fire and there’s so much confirmation biases on his podcast.
@thelostone6981 agreed, that's what makes this interview an outlier. Usually he just nods along.
Rogan thinks UFOs are real. Nuf said.
“People lie to get out of trouble, but I don’t want to get into trouble.” Bro, ,we literally have people from a religion who flew planes into buildings for their God and there are thousands of followers sitting in Guantánamo Bay lying about what they know.
Scary scenario when Rogan is the most rational person in the room.
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
He is reasonable. Much more so than the average person.
It’s kinda like arguing that a thing happened during a certain president’s term and we can prove the thing happened because we can prove that particular person was indeed president at the time.
How can Jesus die, though? God was killed by a few nails?
That's some Weak AF God!
But he allowed himself to die.
@@nathanwhite704 I mean, it depends on what you mean by dying. I'm really quite alright with dying if I go into it knowing I will resume my life a few days from now, not a huge deal. I think most people would allow that kind of "death" for relatively minor benefits for themselves or others.
@@matthewnitz8367If Jesus did die, that means for a few seconds at least he was not God, or a god
@@agimasoschandir What do we mean by die? If you mean that his physical body ceased to function, then I don't really see why not having a physical body would make him no longer God.
@@agimasoschandir nonsense, If he was God before death he still would be after. He was The Logos before becoming the man Jesus according to the gospel of John. You don't want to debate that doctrine with me I was a Christian mystic and universalist for years before i left the church.
Very good !!
I hope i watched long enough but I cannot stomach Joe Rogan.
I made it through for Paulogia's commentary, but I agree. When someone says "The broken clock is right twice a day." That's about how I feel about Joe Rogan, I know he CAN tell the truth, but most of the time, he decides lies are better.
@@Dustin_Binswhat evidence do you have for him lying “most of the time”? Genuine question. I disagree with Joe on a lot and sometimes when I’m listening (like when he had this guy on) I’m screaming in the car because some of his guests are so ridiculous, but he’s not a journalist…he’s an entertainer. Even so, I see him as frequently misguided, not a liar. I’m curious to see the evidence you have to make such a claim though!
The amount of Christian apologist channels claiming that Joe is coming around to the possibility of the Bible being true because of all the “amazing points” his religious guests are making is laughable.
Ignorance is its own reward - youtube coments sage
It's kind of unsettling seeing Joe Rogan ask intelligent questions and not just be completely credulous.
Would be amazing to see Paulogia on the Joe Rogan podcast.
You would think that eventually we would get the point that we can't create a god that doesn't require shutting off your higher brain functions to believe in.
On the Mount Rushmore of theologian scholars Low Bar Bill is one of the rocks chipped off to form one of the noses.
I’m familiar with LBB from whom I think is the originator, Brian Dalton (Mr. Deity). I’m curious; has LBB become a thing, or did you hear it from the same source?
It's kind of amazing that Joe of all people had so many good questions. This is the guy who believed kitty litter in schools and horse paste curing covid.
If you surround yourself with insane people you will unwittingly adopt insane beliefs
In a group of insanity ... the least insane seems normal ....
Horse paste? Could you elaborate, please?
@@w8m4n the ivermectin that's used for farm animals for worms..
@ericfritz8805 Oh that, well it's not strictly just for animal use, is it? Isn't it used to treat multiple things in humans too?
Things are likely to be true inversely to how much effort must be put into defending them.
Let’s get Bart Ehrman on Joe Rogan’s podcast!
Credit where credit's due- I was impressed at his willingness to admit these weren't some slam dunk that we all should be converted by.
Pilate was a real person, therefore Jesus resurrected. Seems legit.
I can't get over all the ppl shiting on Joe Rogan.
He has interesting people on his podcast and asking interesting questions if you plebs took the time to listen to a few interviews you might know instead of going with your predetermined opinions.
Yes he has his own views of topics and some guests are less worthy of listening to but that's where you use your brain when you are listening.
Everyone these days just reflexively wants people who they don’t agree with on anything relating to politics or religion to be banished and erased from all public forums and media.
I really think Joe would benefit from watching his own podcasts.
We have better attestation that Joseph Smith suffered persecution, torture and was ultimately killed specifically because of his religious claims than we have evidence that any of Jesus' apostles even existed. And Joseph Smith also believed in the resurrection of Jesus. So if Stephen Myer's logic is as solid as he thinks it is, he should convert to Mormonism.
I call people like meyer Target Painters, they shoot the arrow and then paint the target around it
Officially, The Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy.
@@CrowManyClouds oh, did not know that
@@patobrien235 (Really your name would be better (The Target Painter Fallacy) 'cause what's Texas got to do with anything?!)
@CrowManyClouds no, I think I will leave it, not sure about texas
@Paulogia heads up I think you uploaded the wrong episode for this one on Spotify.
WELL Jesus is big and hairy so....
Has anyone ever seen Bigfoot and Jesus in the same room? Suspicious...
@SirSicCrusader Big J is said to have raised from the dead and due to come back at some point because he wants to kill most hoo-mans and drink all the whiskey. That won't do. Bigfoot has no such lofty ambitions, therefore he exists.
Good stuff. Hoping for a response to NT Wright video!
After that rambling intro from Rogan I was hoping that Meyer would just respond with "Can you ask me all those questions again, but one by one, giving me a chance to speak". The guy is so infuriating, how does anyone think he is a great interviewer? He engages with anyone he disagrees with like a dismissive teen, and anyone he agrees with he just sits there gawping saying "wow" with no push back as they peddle increasingly conspiratorial nonsense.
Yeah, I don't get his appeal.
@@GreatgoatonFire That is pretty much his appeal. Critical thinking, skepticism, and sound epistemology need not apply at his show.
Crazy how he's got the biggest podcast of all time
He gives a large group of people what they want. I would say that what his audience wants is to skip the hard work of using critical thinking, at the same time being told how smart they are, and that everyone else are brainwashed sheep. It is Dunning Krueger, the podcast.
Questioning your beliefs is hard and often feels bad, and requires you to have to refine them and being nuanced in your statements. Skipping all that, and just pretending you did feels much better. @@w8m4n
4:50 Hi Paul - What historical standards are you using exactly to distinguish that Jesus's trial, death, and resurrection are all categorically distinct from one another?