My gateway song from this group was "Child of Innocence," which was on the first Kansas album I purchased in 1975. I concur with Chuck that you did hear their music on the radio from NYC back in the mid 70's. I then bought the debut and Song for America albums soon after. I'm pretty sure the album cuts "Song for America" and "Belexes" I also heard on the radio. I also agree with George, what you heard on the album was a product of the times. Drum solos were a dime-a-dozen. Which brings me to a general comment, this illustrious panel can't handle a minute-and-a-half "solo." That is nick picking. Don't forget, this was only their second album. I feel they were still finding their way. There are some less-than-perfect songs on the first three albums, the first one sonically was very muddy. But I have always taken the good with the bad for groups I love. It's just what you do. I think we can all agree that they got it right on their fourth album in 1976, correct? Having said all this "Song for America" is by far the best song on the album, in fact I would mind if it was another "Thick as a Brick." In closing, Anthony, don't let Prof. Bully get you down. Stick to your guns, stay steadfast in your beliefs. Sacrifice popularity for your own ideas, it's what makes us individuals!
I just saw Kansas live in Detroit at the Fisher Theater a couple of weeks ago. From Song for America, they played “Lonely Street”, “Down the Road” and the title track. It was awesome!!
I laughed when Luis called Ehart an average drummer at best. Actually Ehart is a top shelf drummer . The drumming on the title track of this album itself is fantastic.
I've noticed that Luis flippantly dismisses the talents of other musicians, and sometimes he comes off sounding arrogant or ill-informed, as is the case with his Ehart comment....But Luis also likes to drop his own name, so to speak, by constantly making references to being a musician himself and playing gigs, meeting famous people, etc.
My fav Kansas album. The blues and boogie tracks were kind of part of the package way back then. The proggy tracks are fantastic, only Journey from Mariabronn beats them. 😊
As per the discussion, I went through each record and created a Kansas 1975 album. The flow is quite good. Here is my track listing. It clocks in at 49:04. I am a HUGE Kansas fan but I am an even bigger Kerry Livgren fan. He was obviously the best songwriter in the band. But, I also say that this band wouldn't have been as big without the GREAT Steve Walsh on lead vocals!! 1. Song For America 2. Down the Road 3. Icarus (Bourne On Wings Of Steel) 4. Child Of Innocence 5. Lamplight Symphony 6. Incomudro-Hymn To The Atman 7. Mysteries And Mayhem 8. The Pinnacle
Oh Ken! From my perspective Kansas is the single finest prog band from America. Every member was an incredible musician, and Kerry Livgren is one of the finest composers, orchestrators, lyricists, and musicians in the world. I saw them live 8 times in the 70s, and there’s never been a better live band. I’m fact, Queen loved them and used to come & see them. Brian May can’t say enough great things about them!
Song for America competes with Leftoverture and POKR for my favorite Kansas album. Maybe not quite at the level of those two, but not far off. The title track, Lamplight Symphony and Incomudro-Hymn to the Atman are worth the price of admission…love this album
This is my all time favorite Kansas album. It’s excellent from start to finish. The title track is my favorite Kansas song. It sums up everything that is great about the band. It’s an epic masterpiece. I have that same shirt, Pete!
It's interesting, really. The thing many from the panel seem to dislike about Song for America is the very thing I love most about the album: the dichotomy between the earthy, boogie-based tunes, and the more transcendent explorations - this also runs parallel to the thematic split; real world concerns vs. supramundane ones. I find it all utterly fascinating. I admit that when I first heard this album, it seemed confusing hearing the contrasts, but it didn't take long for me to get into the groove. I love "Down the Road" - played this one tune on repeat countless times. I think the music smokes (and nope, I wouldn't want the order of the first two tracks reversed.) Like Ken said, "Lonely Street" isn't the most badass blues you'll ever hear, but that's not what I was expecting. Probably the most fascinating thing about it is the one beat dropped from making it a standard blues tune; aside from a few moments in 12/8, along with what they did at the very end, the track is in 11/8 (also the original title, if I remember correctly.) The lyrics to the above two songs? Fine, but I've read FAR worse. "Lamplight Symphony" gives me goosebumps. The lyrics / story might be a bit melodramatic to some, but it's all good. And the music is, by turns, poignant and creepy / spine-chilling. Remarkable craftsmanship. As Chad pointed out, "The Devil Game" has quite a bit going on. Lyrically, I think the song was about the dangers of gambling? I don't mind the drum solo to "Incomudro" (there are live versions where it lasts longer than what's heard on here); the theme is quite interesting, and that climax absolutely soars. And, lastly, the title track - what can I say? It's probably my favorite Kansas track. I was exposed to Kansas sometime after getting into Rush, Dream Theater, Yes, Jethro Tull and Genesis, and before bands like Emerson, Lake & Palmer, King Crimson, and Gentle Giant. It was still pretty much early on in my progressive rock journey (beginning of the 2000's), so I never experienced the feeling of disappointment about the whole 'not British' thing; in fact, it's Kansas' US (The Heartland)-injected flavor of 'prog' that draws me in; certainly, I've always enjoyed them more than their contemporaries like Styx (sorry, not sorry.) Song For America is my favorite from Kansas, even though I love the other albums. One of these days, I'll learn to tone down the long-windedness. Great episode, guys.
Not stoner rock QUOTES ' Supramundane , melodramatic, long-winded ' Besides their 2 incredible hits American prog is soft , throwaway . More like Chicago less like Styx . Again I could have played Floyd over Dream Theatre . Thanks Ken
@@domazz63 Not liking 'American prog' is your business; an opinion to which you are entitled. I have nothing more to add there. The Chicago and Styx comparison is interesting; Chicago seems to have become something of a laughingstock (maybe this could also apply to Styx to some extent) - I guess their ballads from the late '70s and all throughout the '80s are what most know them for, and they get turned off. But none of that really matters to me; I find Chicago's material from '69-'77 alone to be far more interesting than anything Styx ever released, and I say this with no equivocation. And while I do enjoy some of Styx's stuff, it's not to a strong enough degree for them to ever become a huge favorite. Of course, these are just _my_ opinions.
@@knightvisioniixv Al Kooper's Blood Sweat and Tears's " Child is Father to the Man" in '68 was an American prog-like classic that was a blueprint for Chicago and other such bands with far less balls and imagination..........smug comparisons by these guys of Kansas to Sticks or any other of those cheesy '70's bands that Kansas got blamed for is the reason people still ask, "is Kansas really prog?".......American Gothic prog, a sub-genre they practically invented, and ultimately owned
A brilliant album, I'm not a big fan of their bluesy songs necessarily but then again I'm not a big blues fan anyway, they have a bit of that on Masque as well but I can tolerate Kansas style blues. The three big masterful prog pieces here obviously are the high points.
Thank you Pete for making me feel better about the comments that were made about my love for Kansas. And George, I didn’t mean to make you angry. It wasn’t your comment as much as all the laughter that accompanied it. I don’t think that comments about how much someone loves Yes, or Genesis would draw so much laughter. It just felt hurtful. One of the things I love about Kansas is the diversity: Steve could write good blues rock tunes, and Kerry could write STELLAR prog, which makes them GREAT.
Sure wish you’d interview Kerry Livgren or have him on a show to discuss Leftoverture before he leaves us. He nearly died from a massive stroke in 2006 or 2009. I hope he is around for awhile! He had 2 great bands after Kansas - AD and Proto-Kaw, and a bunch of terrific solo albums with guest players like Dio and Barriemore Barlow.
Just another comment. Someone (can’t remember who) mentioned that in “Lamplight Symphony” the beast that the old man heard had killed his wife. Nope! It was the howl of the beast that woke the man, so he went to the window and looked at his wife’s grave & started remembering their marriage. Then he goes back to bed & sees the ghost of his wife.
So....I'm guilty of avoiding Kansas because of Wayward Son and Dust In The Wind. They're not bad songs but......holy shit, they've overplayed those 2 songs to death on radio so didn't really bother with them until recently. I saw that cool ass album cover for Song For America with the eagle on Spotify and I decided to give it a try. After I finished the whole album, I immediately regretted not diving into their catalog MUCH earlier. This album fucking rules. Down The Road - Just punches you in the face right out the gate with a ass kicking rocker. Song For America - The song that changed my view on Kansas. It made me discover the genius of Kerry Livgren, just such a creative keyboard and guitar player. Lamplight Symphony - This one took a few listens to get into but once I did, I enjoyed it. That middle section 3:45 into the song and the ending is just fantastic. Lonely Street - Probably my least favorite song on the album, but it's more of the style than the song itself, not a huge blues rock kind of person. But as it is, not bad. The Devil's Game - Just like the opener, punches you back in the face after Lonely Street, although not as fun as Down The Road, imo. Still great. Incomundro - Ah, the song that made me into a fan. I don't care what anyone says, that drum solo is just awesome. Love the arrangement, the last section with the cosmic boogie is just fun as hell. It's usually either this or Masque as my favorite, although I pick up this a little more than Masque.
I would strongly disagree about what Luis said Phil Ehart. Phil is a master of the "off" snare beat and was an excellent drummer. His beats were complex and very hard to replicate that style-so unique. He has since gone away from that style, but back in the day he was very innovative. The drum solo gives the song some breathing space. And Steve Walsh is one of rock's best singers ever. Period!
Kansas never tried to sound European........their obvious intent was to bring an American Gothic aesthetic to prog.......and succeeded beyond anyone's expectations, practically creating a sub-genre
Well said. I think this is why there is often discussion and debate about how to categorize Kansas, and you'll hear them called prog, pomp rock, or more often, they'll get lumped in with all the radio rock of that timeframe, i.e. Foreigner, REO, Boston, Journey, etc...They really don't fit comfortably under any of these labels because they were doing something unique that no one else could duplicate.
Lonely Street was on the album because they were hoping for a " hit single " . The drum solo in Incomudro: lots of bands of all genres were doing long drum solos in songs at that time, Kansas was following a trend Kerry Livgren didn't write " The Devil Game ", Steve Walsh and Dave Hope did...
They weren’t hoping for a hit single. The label, Kirshner, was threatening to drop them if they didn’t come up with one. Thank God for Kerry Livgren’s genius and his literal last minute writing of Carry On, which saved all their asses, and their huge fan base too!
When I've seen them on tour the past few years;Ronnie Platt does an outstanding version of Lamplight Symphony! As an album - just another classic from Steve, Robby, Phil, Dave & Kerry! Timeless.... along with Leftoverture, Masque, & Point of Know Return.
This was my first Kansas album and they became one of my favorite bands. I like every song. Down The Road is a rocker. And l think mixing the rockers with more proggy pieces works for me I like the dynamic changes
Speaking of Seeds of Change, Kerry Livgren"a solo album of the same name is pretty good. Other than maybe one song, I really like it. It's kind of a lost Kensas album as other members appear on it. I'm guessing everyone has heard it, except for maybe Old Man Prog and Dr. Nasser since he's relatively new to Kensas. But as a metal guy, you'd appreciate it as some guy you may have heard of named Ronnie James Dio (in his prime) sings two songs on it. 🤘🏼 And as a Jethro Tull fan, you'd be interested to know Barriemore Barlow plays most of the drums. Good album.
It was a bit hurtful when you all cracked up when it was mentioned toward the end that they are my favorite band (at least in the 70s). Thanks to you Pete for choosing this album. Unfortunately, none of you focused on what an amazing live band they were. I lived in Pittsburgh, and if you drive through PA you won’t see much farmland, but you would see lots of the beautiful Appalachian mountains, including the Poconos, and incredibly beautiful and dense forest. Pittsburgh LOVED Kansas, which is why they played their 40th anniversary concert there. And they’re still drawing big crowds after 50 years The cover is our American symbol, the eagle, stylized of course. So cool. And Phil Ehart is an underrated drummer. But Kerry Livgren is a master musician and songwriter, but he was so generous that even if Steve wrote a single lyric line, he was credited on the album. Like the Wall on Leftoverture, which is really a gorgeous Livgren composition. You might give a listen to Kerry’s Proto-Kaw band, particularly Before Became After and The Wait of Glory. I disagree! Kerry Livgren was the key to the success of Kansas. But Steve & Robby sang them beautifully.
According to them, it turns out that they were some illiterate peasants with a couple of good songs, I'm especially thinking of Ken, not including Pete and Progman
So you’re not up for a discussion, just a one sided hit and run attack. Not only did I watch it again I lived it. There was nothing I said that would represent what you think are my beliefs.
Janice, it wasn't meant to be hurtful. Instead, you should feel proud that you are well known as being one of Kansas' biggest supporters among all our viewers.
Don’t have time to listen to the whole show tonight. So far I’m finding this an interesting discussion. 2 things I love in music are Hardness & Rawness. If a song has the right feeling of Hard Rawness I love it for the sound. I don’t care if it’s musically perfect. It has the feel. I love “Lonely Street” because of the feel it has, & because it’s so different from the other songs. I especially love “The Devil Game.” Every time I heard it I’m thinking, give me a Progressive Rock band that plays all their songs like that. That’s music I can really get into.
Kerry Livgren saw the word Incomudro in his sleep. After a little bit of research I came across the Spanish word Incomunicado which is pretty close to Incomudro. Kind of make you wonder if Kerry saw Incomunicado somewhere and his subconscious mind changed it to Incomudro.
The only background vocals were done by Walsh & Steinhardt, not the rest of the band. In fact, Kerry confessed that he could not sing. In his 1st solo album, Seeds of Change, the only song he sang on was terrible. So you are quite wrong about the band members singing along. With the exception of the opening of Carry On, which is a Livgren masterpiece. But Dio sang on 2 of them - GREAT!
Kansas played Madison Square garden in 1976 opening for Bad Company. Sold out MSG in 1978 as the headliner nine days after selling out The Nassau Coliseum. They also sold out MSG in 1979 as headliner on the Monolith tour. They must have been more popular in N.Y than Ken remembers.
Got to clear something up. Kerry became a Christian before AudioVisions & after Monolith. The 1st track on the album, Relentless- a great song-had Christian lyrics as do several others
Walsh and Steinhardt’s vocal harmonies are part of Kansas’ signature sound. I suppose Lennon and McCartney wore on you, too, when they sang together. What truck did that dude Ken fall off?
It's humorous to me that these "experts" in prog seem to know so little about some of the most important bands in the genre - Kansas being a major one. In other videos Ken has called them "Hillbilly Prog" - then here you get to hear him admit he's barely listened to anything they've done over a five decade career.
@@crusheverything4449 Another lowlight was listening to Ken ramble about how "Lonely Street" a just simplistic bar band blues song. Guess he didn't notice that it's in an 11/8 time signature and not at all easy to play or sing.
@@soundsandvisionsHQ - For real. The original title of the song was actually 11/8. Sometimes people just have their friends or acquaintances on their show. I don’t think ‘ol Ken is there for his music expertise and brilliant insight.
I was in high school and a drummer friend had turned me on to the first album. Ended up going to Winterland to see them OPEN for BOC and headliner Jefferson Starship (homecoming show for DragonFly). The crowd was in a hurry and didn't know a thing about them. Turned out they killed and got called back. But the thing I remember most about that show was Kerry saying "Here's a new one we do in 11/8" It was Lonely Street...months before SFA was released.
One of my favorite albums from them. My views fall in line with most the panel. The title track is my favorite on the album and from the band as a whole. Not crazy about "Lonely Street". It`s not that it`s a bad song. This is Kansas after all, the musicianship is top notch, as is the performance. But blues is not what I listen to Kansas for. It just seems out of place.
I hate to disagree with the great Dr. Nasser, from whom I learn so much every show where he appears, but he's missed the boat on Phil Ehart. Phil's a terrific drummer -- in my opinion, one of the most underrated in rock history. That is, in part, because his drumming is never the focus of the music. (Unlike, say, Neil Peart, who was showcased all the time in Rush.) But speaking as a Kansas fan since the mid-'70s who's seen them live several times, Ehart is a master. Song For America is still early in Kansas's development. For me, they really don't connect all the dots that make Kansas great until the following album, Masque. That said, this is a classic album with tons of points to recommend it. In it, you can hear foreshadowing of what Kansas would soon become.
When I was in college, my roommates who dismissed my taste in music often criticized music as “weird just to be weird” (e.g., Thick as a Brick, quirky songs from bands like Queen/Traffic/late-Beatles/The Who, etc.) However, I don’t think that you can say that about Kansas. Even their long songs like “Song For America” and “The Wall” still held their attention.
I have yet to hear a drum solo (from a purely entertainment perspective) that tops Dennis Davis' solo on "Panic In Detroit" via Bowie's "Live at Nassau Colessium '76". The version that was ultimately released was truncated from the original 8+ minute version I captured during a radio broadcast. Long? Yes, but he made it into a piece that captivated the listener, start to finish.
Kansas has deservedly appeared on Pete's 6-album run series. The title track is epic and it kicks off Two for the Show, one of the greatest live albums of the seventies IMHO. And the 2008 deluxe version pretty much duplicates the material from the original release; the bonus tracks kick off with Hopelessly Human from Point of Know Return, which starts with the intro theme of Incomudro, the other great epic of SFA.
The critic Lester Bangs once said that he especially hated Kansas ( he hated English prog bands from the 70s) He said that they were from the US south Midwest and should have known better. Of course he was a Ramones fan. As far as their pop and boogie songs. Let's not forget that they were under the watchful eye of Don Kershner.
Lester Bangs was far more pretentious than any prog band ever was. The worst thing that ever happened to rock criticism was the critics themselves trying to be as famous as the musicians.
I sense that all the hate for "Down the Road" & "Lonely Street" is down to some good, old fashioned prog snobbery. Anything that represents the "mainstream" music of the time must be dismissed and ripped apart to prove ones prog snob credentials. Pete & Chuck seem to be the only ones that don't suffer from this affliction. To me, the boogie/blues side of Kansas added some variety to the albums and I enjoy them as part of the whole package of what the band could do & the wide range of influences that inspired them. This album is great start to finish,even the non-proggy parts.
Not sure what that means but I’m the birder. I don’t sit on a porch rocker and stare at feeders. I travel to preserves, other states and some times other countries looking for birds. It’s not a sedentary activity.
@@chutch15 Hope this doesnt show up twice but not seeing my response. Someone during the video said that and I thought he was teasing about your hat. Sure meant no disrespect. I always enjoy your contributions to the show. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Sounds like Kansas had as little an impact in NYC as they did in the UK. Same as Ken I was aware of a couple of minor hit singles, contributions to Hackett's Please Don't Touch and that was it. The album art never really appealed to me, nor lame titles such as Leftoverture. However, after this episode I feel I need to go back and reassess. Certainly Steve Walsh is a great singer.
A very enjoyable analysis of one of my favorite bands and one of their best. I enjoyed and agreed with the bulk of you. However, in the final couple minutes everyone preceded to trash Two Cents Worth while commenting on Masque. Absolutely do not get that. TCW is an excellent song.
I stand corrected about the band playing MSG as a headliner. They played August 28, 1979 on the Monolith tour. No idea if it sold out or not. Interestingly they didn't play any of the material from Song For America.
Good discussion...However, Luis is dead wrong on Phil Ehart. He's a great drummer. Certainly not Neal Peart but he is very good. Speaking of the lack of guitar on "Song for America", as good as the original studio version is, the version on "Live at the Whiskey" with heavier guitar by Rich Williams is much more dynamic and even better than the studio version, in my opinion. I never really paid much attention to Hope's bass playing on the title track. I'll have to re-listen to it now that I'm thinking about it.
I have nothing bad to say about his drumming on the songs. Dude is no Barriemore Barlow, say, but he commands all the time changes and makes them groove. The drum solo though? It really pisses me off. And it's OK, you know? Fortunately, the solo exists and everyone who loves it can enjoy it.
Kerry only made a guest appearance on Live at the Whiskey. But if you want to see and hear Steve Walsh at his absolute worst, this is the show to see. He was sooo drunk and soooooo coked up, he could barely do the show. AWFUL, just AWFUL!
I first heard Kansas in 1977, and except for the "Radio Hits", they were never my cup of tea. I agree with @kengolden about them being lumped in with other mid-west bands like REO Speedwagon. It's funny when @kengolden talks about the tracks on the album, and @anthonyferraro almost takes it personally. 🤣😂🤣 Music is an art form, and everyone hears things differently.
KANSAS was NOT "a big nothing" in the NYC area! This Ken guy has no idea what he is talking about! I grew up in The Bronx and Englewood, NJ, and distinctly remember that lots of my contemporaries in high school LOVED them! Rock radio played them a LOT too! And many of the local bar bands played Kansas songs too!
This Ken guy is probably a little older than you. In the 1970s Kansas was a non-factor on progressive radio. Once Point Of Know Return came out you started to hear them. WNEW-FM? Rarely. I stand by my comment.
The progressive radio station WYDD in Pittsburgh played Kansas from the first album on. And they played live all the time there (and NOT IN BARS), drawing huge crowds.
@@kengolden666 Are you calling AOR progressive? Because there were so few until Scot Muni and the Klan did it at WNEW. WMMR and WLIR were also pretty good for playing album cuts. "Child of Innocence" my gateway, as I explained above. I heard that song during an afternoon show on WNEW. The rest is history. And believe I'm even a little older than you.
No, likely an American Crow. Pretty synonymous with cornfields etc. Though the artist sure took liberty with the talons. Also maybe one representing each member of the band?
@@aidenswords5809 The Bald Eagle is, yes, but they aren’t black like the bird on the cover. It’s a confusing bird: black like a crow but the talons of an eagle.
One thing I never hear anyone mention about Lonely Street is the fact that the narrator shoots the guy they call The Mangler in the cell they share! Don’t they pat anyone down when they arrest them in those parts? 😆
That dichotomy is easily discerned: the shorter, rocking, bluesy songs were mostly written by Steve Walsh. The incredible, longer prog songs were written by Kerry Livgren, known by Wheatheads like me as “The Maestro.” Poor Steve just couldn’t compete.
@@katesjanice Have you checked out "Freaks of Nature" from the early 90's?......plenty of brilliant Kansas moments on that one too........including one that Kerry contributed...........has since become one of my top 3 favorites...........
Incomudro-Hymn to the Atman is my favorite Kansas song that is highly under rated i disagree about the drum solo on that song- i think it just as good or better than the rest of the instrumentals. at the 9 minute 27 second mark of Hymn to the Atman it says- The Master Plan is well conceived but i hear it as- the master plan is well 'perceived' does anyone else hear the same thing? hindsight and criticism are easy compared to creating and performing these songs. a couple of the songs maybe were not first class but maybe they didn't have anything better to put on the album at that time.
@@chutch15 Stands to reason; why would you put a crow on an album called Song For America when just about everyone knows the Eagle is the national bird. All I know is I would not put a crow on such a majestic album.
The Bald Eagle is of course, not the Golden Eagle. This cover is an odd bird (no pun in tended). It’s all black like a crow but with talons like an eagle. American Crows are synonymous with cornfields and agricultural lands (which Kansas is full of). Maybe we are overthinking it and need to chalk it up to artistic license.
I think a few on the panel need to lighten up. This was just their 2nd album. Kerry was just starting to hit his stride as a writer and Steve needed to plug in the gaps with what he was able to write - and he was never the 'prog' guy in the band. For what it is, being just their 2nd album, it's quite impressive and a building-block as to what was to come.
These shows are regularly made up of people who know these albums VERY well and some that are new to the albums...it's what gives them variety. Every panelist saying the same things about albums they've listened to and loved for 50 years is pretty boring. It's a nice change of pace to hear from people who didn't grow up with an album, and have only been listening to it for a few weeks. It's called getting different perspectives.
@@seaoftranquilityprog Pete, I agree that it is fair to get different perspectives but some of your panel, even though they gave it a "B", basically took a diarrhea dump on the album album, undeservingly so. I'd like to take their go-to prog bands and examine their 2nd albums. Pete, trust me, there will be "skips"! :^)
@@Belexes and that could very well be...but again, we all hear things differently. You can take ANY album, 2nd or otherwise, and get 5-10 people together to talk about it, and you will get different views on it.
@@lahloonatic that is what made Kansas unique back then. They were a Midwest, American band that composed progrock as well as boogie, southern, blues rock. Lonely Street is my second favorite track on this album.
In defense of Lonely Street, its time signature swings between 11 and 12/8 :)) is that enough to make it really interesting? No. I think tunes like these were there in need of making the totality of their records to be not too artistic, make them more accessible and "American"
There was a glaring dichotomy between Livgren’s symphonic arrangements and Walsh’s more pedestrian rock writing styles. That’s the main reason for the bi-polar nature of most Kansas records from The Original 6.
@@crusheverything4449 I am gonna have to go back and transcribe it. Not that i doubt you - but it would be a remarkable "accomplishment" to take an interesting metric and make it sound so bland and linear. At least to my ears.
....Well.... the short songs where early attempts to create a hit single as that's what the record company wanted. They were about to lose their contract, so why doesn't anyone consider how much the band was under pressure. And why did the first two guys get so much room? ...And why does an organ player HAVE to do solos?
@@lasercd7851 I rather thought I was, a music lover, that is, thanks for the tip..........."hate" is too strong of a word for music, a closed minded, immature knee-jerk response...................... it's all out there for somebody
Kansas have always been a band that’s “just kind of there” for me as Ken said about the organ on their albums is how I’ve always felt about them and I owned and listened to all their albums at one time. Their music was somewhat compelling at times, but still never broke the wow barrier for me and lyrically they were never all that interesting and leaned to heavily on religious themes at points. They wanted to be American in a truly European genre of music and it never quite works. They were a step above Styx, but that’s not hard as Styx didn’t know if they wanted to be a Cabaret Act or a rock band.
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'Song For America' is the unsung hero of the Kansas catalogue. An important album. I love this album.
Walsh and Steinhardt’s vocal harmonies are part of Kansas’ signature sound. The title track is one of my favorite Kansas songs.
Amazing album.....those melodies!
Goose bumps
Kansas (the original six members!) are and always will be the greatest American progressive band of all time... 🌪️🎻🎸🥁🎹🎙️🌾🎶
And they will still get blamed for bandwagon dreck like Sticks, Starcastle, REO, etc.
@@bennyscomin - Sticks? 🤨
@@bennyscominstyx
My gateway song from this group was "Child of Innocence," which was on the first Kansas album I purchased in 1975. I concur with Chuck that you did hear their music on the radio from NYC back in the mid 70's. I then bought the debut and Song for America albums soon after. I'm pretty sure the album cuts "Song for America" and "Belexes" I also heard on the radio. I also agree with George, what you heard on the album was a product of the times. Drum solos were a dime-a-dozen. Which brings me to a general comment, this illustrious panel can't handle a minute-and-a-half "solo." That is nick picking. Don't forget, this was only their second album. I feel they were still finding their way. There are some less-than-perfect songs on the first three albums, the first one sonically was very muddy. But I have always taken the good with the bad for groups I love. It's just what you do. I think we can all agree that they got it right on their fourth album in 1976, correct? Having said all this "Song for America" is by far the best song on the album, in fact I would mind if it was another "Thick as a Brick." In closing, Anthony, don't let Prof. Bully get you down. Stick to your guns, stay steadfast in your beliefs. Sacrifice popularity for your own ideas, it's what makes us individuals!
I just saw Kansas live in Detroit at the Fisher Theater a couple of weeks ago. From Song for America, they played “Lonely Street”, “Down the Road” and the title track. It was awesome!!
I laughed when Luis called Ehart an average drummer at best. Actually Ehart is a top shelf drummer . The drumming on the title track of this album itself is fantastic.
That's odd. I would NEVER associate the word 'average' to a musician like Ehart.
I've noticed that Luis flippantly dismisses the talents of other musicians, and sometimes he comes off sounding arrogant or ill-informed, as is the case with his Ehart comment....But Luis also likes to drop his own name, so to speak, by constantly making references to being a musician himself and playing gigs, meeting famous people, etc.
My fav Kansas album. The blues and boogie tracks were kind of part of the package way back then. The proggy tracks are fantastic, only Journey from Mariabronn beats them. 😊
The debut and this album set Masque up perfectly. Livgren really started hitting his stride and the band (even Robbie) was perfectly tight.
*Robby
As per the discussion, I went through each record and created a Kansas 1975 album. The flow is quite good. Here is my track listing. It clocks in at 49:04. I am a HUGE Kansas fan but I am an even bigger Kerry Livgren fan. He was obviously the best songwriter in the band. But, I also say that this band wouldn't have been as big without the GREAT Steve Walsh on lead vocals!!
1. Song For America
2. Down the Road
3. Icarus (Bourne On Wings Of Steel)
4. Child Of Innocence
5. Lamplight Symphony
6. Incomudro-Hymn To The Atman
7. Mysteries And Mayhem
8. The Pinnacle
Strong but I’d replace “Down the Road” with “The Devil Game.”
Oh Ken! From my perspective Kansas is the single finest prog band from America. Every member was an incredible musician, and Kerry Livgren is one of the finest composers, orchestrators, lyricists, and musicians in the world. I saw them live 8 times in the 70s, and there’s never been a better live band. I’m fact, Queen loved them and used to come & see them. Brian May can’t say enough great things about them!
Janice its a great thing when a band’s music resonates so well with you. For you Kansas seems to really hit the mark.
Yeah I take Brian May`s opinion than some of these losers!
Great Album- Lov it..Saw them Live with Queen 70s Capital theater n.j .
George: “He’s One of the seven approved Eric Porter Singers”
Pete: “That’s a small club, that’s a really small club”
😂😂😂😂😂😂
It is a small club, but Mr. Walsh is definitely a member, great singer
As another Eric Porter. I concur Steve Walsh has always Captained my top 5 vocalists
Song for America competes with Leftoverture and POKR for my favorite Kansas album. Maybe not quite at the level of those two, but not far off. The title track, Lamplight Symphony and Incomudro-Hymn to the Atman are worth the price of admission…love this album
This is my all time favorite Kansas album. It’s excellent from start to finish. The title track is my favorite Kansas song. It sums up everything that is great about the band. It’s an epic masterpiece. I have that same shirt, Pete!
One of my favorite albums ever, and the title track is my all time favorite
Mine too. Great from start to finish; I have a UK 1st press which is quite rare I think. Least ways it took me forever to find one 😂.
It's interesting, really. The thing many from the panel seem to dislike about Song for America is the very thing I love most about the album: the dichotomy between the earthy, boogie-based tunes, and the more transcendent explorations - this also runs parallel to the thematic split; real world concerns vs. supramundane ones. I find it all utterly fascinating. I admit that when I first heard this album, it seemed confusing hearing the contrasts, but it didn't take long for me to get into the groove. I love "Down the Road" - played this one tune on repeat countless times. I think the music smokes (and nope, I wouldn't want the order of the first two tracks reversed.) Like Ken said, "Lonely Street" isn't the most badass blues you'll ever hear, but that's not what I was expecting. Probably the most fascinating thing about it is the one beat dropped from making it a standard blues tune; aside from a few moments in 12/8, along with what they did at the very end, the track is in 11/8 (also the original title, if I remember correctly.) The lyrics to the above two songs? Fine, but I've read FAR worse. "Lamplight Symphony" gives me goosebumps. The lyrics / story might be a bit melodramatic to some, but it's all good. And the music is, by turns, poignant and creepy / spine-chilling. Remarkable craftsmanship. As Chad pointed out, "The Devil Game" has quite a bit going on. Lyrically, I think the song was about the dangers of gambling? I don't mind the drum solo to "Incomudro" (there are live versions where it lasts longer than what's heard on here); the theme is quite interesting, and that climax absolutely soars. And, lastly, the title track - what can I say? It's probably my favorite Kansas track.
I was exposed to Kansas sometime after getting into Rush, Dream Theater, Yes, Jethro Tull and Genesis, and before bands like Emerson, Lake & Palmer, King Crimson, and Gentle Giant. It was still pretty much early on in my progressive rock journey (beginning of the 2000's), so I never experienced the feeling of disappointment about the whole 'not British' thing; in fact, it's Kansas' US (The Heartland)-injected flavor of 'prog' that draws me in; certainly, I've always enjoyed them more than their contemporaries like Styx (sorry, not sorry.) Song For America is my favorite from Kansas, even though I love the other albums.
One of these days, I'll learn to tone down the long-windedness. Great episode, guys.
Kansas had one thing most of the other prog bands of the 70s lacked: BALLS.
AGREE. Thank you!
Not stoner rock
QUOTES ' Supramundane , melodramatic, long-winded '
Besides their 2 incredible hits American prog is soft , throwaway . More like Chicago less like Styx . Again I could have played Floyd over Dream Theatre .
Thanks Ken
@@domazz63 Not liking 'American prog' is your business; an opinion to which you are entitled. I have nothing more to add there. The Chicago and Styx comparison is interesting; Chicago seems to have become something of a laughingstock (maybe this could also apply to Styx to some extent) - I guess their ballads from the late '70s and all throughout the '80s are what most know them for, and they get turned off. But none of that really matters to me; I find Chicago's material from '69-'77 alone to be far more interesting than anything Styx ever released, and I say this with no equivocation. And while I do enjoy some of Styx's stuff, it's not to a strong enough degree for them to ever become a huge favorite.
Of course, these are just _my_ opinions.
@@knightvisioniixv Al Kooper's Blood Sweat and Tears's " Child is Father to the Man" in '68 was an American prog-like classic that was a blueprint for Chicago and other such bands with far less balls and imagination..........smug comparisons by these guys of Kansas to Sticks or any other of those cheesy '70's bands that Kansas got blamed for is the reason people still ask, "is Kansas really prog?".......American Gothic prog, a sub-genre they practically invented, and ultimately owned
My favorite Kansas album!
Great album. Lot of different styles of music on this one.
A brilliant album, I'm not a big fan of their bluesy songs necessarily but then again I'm not a big blues fan anyway, they have a bit of that on Masque as well but I can tolerate Kansas style blues. The three big masterful prog pieces here obviously are the high points.
Kansas my 7th fav. band of all time!
Nice handle!
Great show on a great album.
Thank you Pete for making me feel better about the comments that were made about my love for Kansas. And George, I didn’t mean to make you angry. It wasn’t your comment as much as all the laughter that accompanied it. I don’t think that comments about how much someone loves Yes, or Genesis would draw so much laughter. It just felt hurtful. One of the things I love about Kansas is the diversity: Steve could write good blues rock tunes, and Kerry could write STELLAR prog, which makes them GREAT.
Sure wish you’d interview Kerry Livgren or have him on a show to discuss Leftoverture before he leaves us. He nearly died from a massive stroke in 2006 or 2009. I hope he is around for awhile! He had 2 great bands after Kansas - AD and Proto-Kaw, and a bunch of terrific solo albums with guest players like Dio and Barriemore Barlow.
Just another comment. Someone (can’t remember who) mentioned that in “Lamplight Symphony” the beast that the old man heard had killed his wife. Nope! It was the howl of the beast that woke the man, so he went to the window and looked at his wife’s grave & started remembering their marriage. Then he goes back to bed & sees the ghost of his wife.
Awesome! Great album! Thanks for doing this.
So....I'm guilty of avoiding Kansas because of Wayward Son and Dust In The Wind. They're not bad songs but......holy shit, they've overplayed those 2 songs to death on radio so didn't really bother with them until recently.
I saw that cool ass album cover for Song For America with the eagle on Spotify and I decided to give it a try. After I finished the whole album, I immediately regretted not diving into their catalog MUCH earlier.
This album fucking rules.
Down The Road - Just punches you in the face right out the gate with a ass kicking rocker.
Song For America - The song that changed my view on Kansas. It made me discover the genius of Kerry Livgren, just such a creative keyboard and guitar player.
Lamplight Symphony - This one took a few listens to get into but once I did, I enjoyed it. That middle section 3:45 into the song and the ending is just fantastic.
Lonely Street - Probably my least favorite song on the album, but it's more of the style than the song itself, not a huge blues rock kind of person. But as it is, not bad.
The Devil's Game - Just like the opener, punches you back in the face after Lonely Street, although not as fun as Down The Road, imo. Still great.
Incomundro - Ah, the song that made me into a fan. I don't care what anyone says, that drum solo is just awesome. Love the arrangement, the last section with the cosmic boogie is just fun as hell.
It's usually either this or Masque as my favorite, although I pick up this a little more than Masque.
I would strongly disagree about what Luis said Phil Ehart. Phil is a master of the "off" snare beat and was an excellent drummer. His beats were complex and very hard to replicate that style-so unique. He has since gone away from that style, but back in the day he was very innovative. The drum solo gives the song some breathing space. And Steve Walsh is one of rock's best singers ever. Period!
One of my favorite Kansas albums. On the strength of the three epics and The Devil Game, this has to be a five star album.
Never understood why they didn't keep The Devil Game in later tours. I saw their Masque tour,and they already had left it out. A top fav for me... T
I can't even imagine what Old Man Prog is going to say about this. Put on your overalls, Ken!
YEE HAH!!
I would just like to say that Oshkosh are a very comfortable and practical garb for those who like to wear them. Some might say stylish.
Is there any better entertainment out there for us fans than this crew ? Great great show as always!
Kansas never tried to sound European........their obvious intent was to bring an American Gothic aesthetic to prog.......and succeeded beyond anyone's expectations, practically creating a sub-genre
Well said. I think this is why there is often discussion and debate about how to categorize Kansas, and you'll hear them called prog, pomp rock, or more often, they'll get lumped in with all the radio rock of that timeframe, i.e. Foreigner, REO, Boston, Journey, etc...They really don't fit comfortably under any of these labels because they were doing something unique that no one else could duplicate.
Great album. And I always loved “Lonely Street”, so I suck!!
Thanks Pete!
The Devil Game was credited to Walsh/Hope. 😅 (edit: Thank you, Chad.)
Lonely Street was on the album because they were hoping for a " hit single " . The drum solo in Incomudro: lots of bands of all genres were doing long drum solos in songs at that time, Kansas was following a trend
Kerry Livgren didn't write " The Devil Game ", Steve Walsh and Dave Hope did...
They weren’t hoping for a hit single. The label, Kirshner, was threatening to drop them if they didn’t come up with one. Thank God for Kerry Livgren’s genius and his literal last minute writing of Carry On, which saved all their asses, and their huge fan base too!
Great show fellas! One of my top 5 bands of all-time 👍 Ken’s disdain for the Midwest is palpable 😤
Especially where Luis and I are concerned. :D
The only disdain I have for the midwest is its music and politics. The people are A-OK.
Wow! Quite a sad generalization. You come off as an arrogant snob. I hope you’re joking.
Here in Indiana Kansas was HUGE beginning with their very first album. If you didn’t own the first Kansas album you were considered out of it. 😅
When I've seen them on tour the past few years;Ronnie Platt does an outstanding version of Lamplight Symphony! As an album - just another classic from Steve, Robby, Phil, Dave & Kerry! Timeless.... along with Leftoverture, Masque, & Point of Know Return.
You forgot Rich.
@@crusheverything4449 Yeah, can't forget Rich! Great guitarist & founding member💪
Leftoverture……A++
Late to the game but
BEGGINING to see the light. Enjoyed the 3 epics .Fifty years later is a lifetime ago.
What have I got to ' Luis '
Great choice Pete. In my top two by Kansas. My number one being leftoverture..
This was my first Kansas album and they became one of my favorite bands. I like every song.
Down The Road is a rocker. And l think mixing the rockers with more proggy pieces works for me I like the dynamic changes
Speaking of Seeds of Change, Kerry Livgren"a solo album of the same name is pretty good. Other than maybe one song, I really like it. It's kind of a lost Kensas album as other members appear on it. I'm guessing everyone has heard it, except for maybe Old Man Prog and Dr. Nasser since he's relatively new to Kensas. But as a metal guy, you'd appreciate it as some guy you may have heard of named Ronnie James Dio (in his prime) sings two songs on it. 🤘🏼 And as a Jethro Tull fan, you'd be interested to know Barriemore Barlow plays most of the drums. Good album.
Hell Yeah !!😀Love it😀
I'm gonna have to look that up. Cheers!
@@lahloonatic Hope you like it Luis😀
And Dio sang on 2 of the best songs on Kerry’s first solo album.
@@katesjanice Hell yeah!!!
But like the whole thing😀
Many thanks gentlemen.
It was a bit hurtful when you all cracked up when it was mentioned toward the end that they are my favorite band (at least in the 70s). Thanks to you Pete for choosing this album.
Unfortunately, none of you focused on what an amazing live band they were.
I lived in Pittsburgh, and if you drive through PA you won’t see much farmland, but you would see lots of the beautiful Appalachian mountains, including the Poconos, and incredibly beautiful and dense forest. Pittsburgh LOVED Kansas, which is why they played their 40th anniversary concert there. And they’re still drawing big crowds after 50 years
The cover is our American symbol, the eagle, stylized of course. So cool.
And Phil Ehart is an underrated drummer. But Kerry Livgren is a master musician and songwriter, but he was so generous that even if Steve wrote a single lyric line, he was credited on the album. Like the Wall on Leftoverture, which is really a gorgeous Livgren composition.
You might give a listen to Kerry’s Proto-Kaw band, particularly Before Became After and The Wait of Glory.
I disagree! Kerry Livgren was the key to the success of Kansas. But Steve & Robby sang them beautifully.
According to them, it turns out that they were some illiterate peasants with a couple of good songs, I'm especially thinking of Ken, not including Pete and Progman
No idea where that comment comes from. Very peculiar thing to say. Please elaborate.
@@lasercd7851 Just watch show again.And i do not do debate here just commenting.
So you’re not up for a discussion, just a one sided hit and run attack. Not only did I watch it again I lived it. There was nothing I said that would represent what you think are my beliefs.
Janice, it wasn't meant to be hurtful. Instead, you should feel proud that you are well known as being one of Kansas' biggest supporters among all our viewers.
Don’t have time to listen to the whole show tonight. So far I’m finding this an interesting discussion. 2 things I love in music are Hardness & Rawness. If a song has the right feeling of Hard Rawness I love it for the sound. I don’t care if it’s musically perfect. It has the feel. I love “Lonely Street” because of the feel it has, & because it’s so different from the other songs. I especially love “The Devil Game.” Every time I heard it I’m thinking, give me a Progressive Rock band that plays all their songs like that. That’s music I can really get into.
Yeah it will be a good one 🎉
Kerry Livgren saw the word Incomudro in his sleep. After a little bit of research I came across the Spanish word Incomunicado which is pretty close to Incomudro. Kind of make you wonder if Kerry saw Incomunicado somewhere and his subconscious mind changed it to Incomudro.
The only background vocals were done by Walsh & Steinhardt, not the rest of the band. In fact, Kerry confessed that he could not sing. In his 1st solo album, Seeds of Change, the only song he sang on was terrible. So you are quite wrong about the band members singing along. With the exception of the opening of Carry On, which is a Livgren masterpiece. But Dio sang on 2 of them - GREAT!
Kansas was my first concert..New Years Eve 1977 into 1978 at the Long Beach Arena in California with Cheap Trick the opening act..pretty good concert
Kansas played Madison Square garden in 1976 opening for Bad Company. Sold out MSG in 1978 as the headliner nine days after selling out The Nassau Coliseum. They also sold out MSG in 1979 as headliner on the Monolith tour. They must have been more popular in N.Y than Ken remembers.
Not in my neighborhood.
@@lasercd7851 Bummer for your neighborhood.
I was going to look for my ticket, but I think it was the '76 concert with Bad Company. I do remember seeing Bad Co.
Got to clear something up. Kerry became a Christian before AudioVisions & after Monolith. The 1st track on the album, Relentless- a great song-had Christian lyrics as do several others
Walsh and Steinhardt’s vocal harmonies are part of Kansas’ signature sound. I suppose Lennon and McCartney wore on you, too, when they sang together. What truck did that dude Ken fall off?
It's humorous to me that these "experts" in prog seem to know so little about some of the most important bands in the genre - Kansas being a major one. In other videos Ken has called them "Hillbilly Prog" - then here you get to hear him admit he's barely listened to anything they've done over a five decade career.
@@soundsandvisionsHQ- Anyone can buy a microphone and web cam these days, even a total doink like that dude Ken.
@@crusheverything4449 Another lowlight was listening to Ken ramble about how "Lonely Street" a just simplistic bar band blues song. Guess he didn't notice that it's in an 11/8 time signature and not at all easy to play or sing.
@@soundsandvisionsHQ - For real. The original title of the song was actually 11/8. Sometimes people just have their friends or acquaintances on their show. I don’t think ‘ol Ken is there for his music expertise and brilliant insight.
I was in high school and a drummer friend had turned me on to the first album. Ended up going to Winterland to see them OPEN for BOC and headliner Jefferson Starship (homecoming show for DragonFly). The crowd was in a hurry and didn't know a thing about them. Turned out they killed and got called back. But the thing I remember most about that show was Kerry saying "Here's a new one we do in 11/8" It was Lonely Street...months before SFA was released.
Great episode! I agree with everything. Except, I like Lonely Street. Not prog, but it's a nice rock tune.
Im not a true prog head but love the blues rock tracks. For me they are great as I love that style of music
This [B+] and Point of Know Return [B-] are my fav Kansas albums.
And the live, of course [A-].
The first five albums by Kansas are all killer, no filler! Brilliantly conceived and executed. I think you guys nitpick too much sometimes..😉😋
One of my favorite albums from them. My views fall in line with most the panel. The title track is my favorite on the album and from the band as a whole. Not crazy about "Lonely Street". It`s not that it`s a bad song. This is Kansas after all, the musicianship is top notch, as is the performance. But blues is not what I listen to Kansas for. It just seems out of place.
I'm just calling them Kensas from now on. 🤠
I like what I’m reading!
I hate to disagree with the great Dr. Nasser, from whom I learn so much every show where he appears, but he's missed the boat on Phil Ehart. Phil's a terrific drummer -- in my opinion, one of the most underrated in rock history. That is, in part, because his drumming is never the focus of the music. (Unlike, say, Neil Peart, who was showcased all the time in Rush.) But speaking as a Kansas fan since the mid-'70s who's seen them live several times, Ehart is a master.
Song For America is still early in Kansas's development. For me, they really don't connect all the dots that make Kansas great until the following album, Masque. That said, this is a classic album with tons of points to recommend it. In it, you can hear foreshadowing of what Kansas would soon become.
Very well put.
“ What’s On Mu Mind” resembles a boogie song .😀❤️🎼
Great song!!!!!
The hat is brilliant! 🤠 Old Man Prog in overalls would be better!
Saw them 5-6 x between 74-76. In Philly!
When I was in college, my roommates who dismissed my taste in music often criticized music as “weird just to be weird” (e.g., Thick as a Brick, quirky songs from bands like Queen/Traffic/late-Beatles/The Who, etc.) However, I don’t think that you can say that about Kansas. Even their long songs like “Song For America” and “The Wall” still held their attention.
Love Kansas to death but Happy the Man is my all time favourite american prog band of all time.
Arnaud ❤️ HtM
Kansas was the best 70's band from the US.
One of them definitely! "Best" is in the eye of the beholder.
I have yet to hear a drum solo (from a purely entertainment perspective) that tops Dennis Davis' solo on "Panic In Detroit" via Bowie's "Live at Nassau Colessium '76". The version that was ultimately released was truncated from the original 8+ minute version I captured during a radio broadcast. Long? Yes, but he made it into a piece that captivated the listener, start to finish.
Did Chad just return from the Barefoot Country Music Fest in Wildwood?
Kansas has deservedly appeared on Pete's 6-album run series. The title track is epic and it kicks off Two for the Show, one of the greatest live albums of the seventies IMHO. And the 2008 deluxe version pretty much duplicates the material from the original release; the bonus tracks kick off with Hopelessly Human from Point of Know Return, which starts with the intro theme of Incomudro, the other great epic of SFA.
Totally agree. Two for the show is my favorite live album. The power that "Live" adds to the music is impressive. Especially Magnum Opus.
Hopelessly Human is a Livgren masterpiece!
The critic Lester Bangs once said that he especially hated Kansas ( he hated English prog bands from the 70s) He said that they were from the US south Midwest and should have known better. Of course he was a Ramones fan. As far as their pop and boogie songs. Let's not forget that they were under the watchful eye of Don Kershner.
Lester Bangs was far more pretentious than any prog band ever was. The worst thing that ever happened to rock criticism was the critics themselves trying to be as famous as the musicians.
Personally I never got why a supposed critic that didn’t like a specific genre would troll on one that he hates?
Interesting with the Ramones mention there, Joey once called Kansas shit but coming from a punk rocker what did he know, right.
@@LarryFleetwood8675 Whether he believed it or not, he had to say it. That's Punk!
I sense that all the hate for "Down the Road" & "Lonely Street" is down to some good, old fashioned prog snobbery. Anything that represents the "mainstream" music of the time must be dismissed and ripped apart to prove ones prog snob credentials. Pete & Chuck seem to be the only ones that don't suffer from this affliction. To me, the boogie/blues side of Kansas added some variety to the albums and I enjoy them as part of the whole package of what the band could do & the wide range of influences that inspired them. This album is great start to finish,even the non-proggy parts.
Great show!! I love listening to you guys. I always wonder everyone's age. "We have a bird watcher." Lmao.Cheers!
Not sure what that means but I’m the birder. I don’t sit on a porch rocker and stare at feeders. I travel to preserves, other states and some times other countries looking for birds. It’s not a sedentary activity.
@@chutch15 Hope this doesnt show up twice but not seeing my response. Someone during the video said that and I thought he was teasing about your hat. Sure meant no disrespect. I always enjoy your contributions to the show. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
@@richbrout16 None taken. And that not a birding hat. That was for Ken since he likes to call Kansas hayseeds. I couldn’t find overalls. 😂
Sounds like Kansas had as little an impact in NYC as they did in the UK. Same as Ken I was aware of a couple of minor hit singles, contributions to Hackett's Please Don't Touch and that was it. The album art never really appealed to me, nor lame titles such as Leftoverture. However, after this episode I feel I need to go back and reassess. Certainly Steve Walsh is a great singer.
If I'm not mistaken, Walsh is part Native American.
Incomudro is is my favorite Kansas song and it needs the drum solo, I don’t care what these guys think.
A very enjoyable analysis of one of my favorite bands and one of their best. I enjoyed and agreed with the bulk of you. However, in the final couple minutes everyone preceded to trash Two Cents Worth while commenting on Masque. Absolutely do not get that. TCW is an excellent song.
I am pretty sure they sold out MSG in 1980 as a headliner. Kerry talks about it in his book Seeds of Change.
I stand corrected about the band playing MSG as a headliner. They played August 28, 1979 on the Monolith tour. No idea if it sold out or not. Interestingly they didn't play any of the material from Song For America.
Kansas "Rainbow Rising" - a couple of outstanding tracks and some boring. Overall a great album.
Good discussion...However, Luis is dead wrong on Phil Ehart. He's a great drummer. Certainly not Neal Peart but he is very good.
Speaking of the lack of guitar on "Song for America", as good as the original studio version is, the version on "Live at the Whiskey" with heavier guitar by Rich Williams is much more dynamic and even better than the studio version, in my opinion.
I never really paid much attention to Hope's bass playing on the title track. I'll have to re-listen to it now that I'm thinking about it.
Peart you might say, is really a percussionist and not the typical rock drummer but Ehart to me is as good as it gets he's always been my #1.
I have nothing bad to say about his drumming on the songs. Dude is no Barriemore Barlow, say, but he commands all the time changes and makes them groove. The drum solo though? It really pisses me off. And it's OK, you know? Fortunately, the solo exists and everyone who loves it can enjoy it.
Kerry only made a guest appearance on Live at the Whiskey. But if you want to see and hear Steve Walsh at his absolute worst, this is the show to see. He was sooo drunk and soooooo coked up, he could barely do the show. AWFUL, just AWFUL!
I first heard Kansas in 1977, and except for the "Radio Hits", they were never my cup of tea. I agree with @kengolden about them being lumped in with other mid-west bands like REO Speedwagon.
It's funny when @kengolden talks about the tracks on the album, and @anthonyferraro almost takes it personally. 🤣😂🤣 Music is an art form, and everyone hears things differently.
I cannot believe none of you guys get the Allman Brothers influence in this music.
KANSAS was NOT "a big nothing" in the NYC area! This Ken guy has no idea what he is talking about! I grew up in The Bronx and Englewood, NJ, and distinctly remember that lots of my contemporaries in high school LOVED them! Rock radio played them a LOT too! And many of the local bar bands played Kansas songs too!
This Ken guy is probably a little older than you. In the 1970s Kansas was a non-factor on progressive radio. Once Point Of Know Return came out you started to hear them. WNEW-FM? Rarely. I stand by my comment.
The progressive radio station WYDD in Pittsburgh played Kansas from the first album on. And they played live all the time there (and NOT IN BARS), drawing huge crowds.
@@kengolden666 Are you calling AOR progressive? Because there were so few until Scot Muni and the Klan did it at WNEW. WMMR and WLIR were also pretty good for playing album cuts. "Child of Innocence" my gateway, as I explained above. I heard that song during an afternoon show on WNEW. The rest is history. And believe I'm even a little older than you.
The look on Ken's face says it all
He shouldn't take up poker, for sure. On the other hand, maybe that theory should be tested...just to make sure.
Great album, but often wondered what the artwork had to do with the title
It’s an eagle?
No, likely an American Crow. Pretty synonymous with cornfields etc. Though the artist sure took liberty with the talons. Also maybe one representing each member of the band?
@@chutch15 ive worked it out, the eagle is a symbol of america, didnt know dat as im from ireland
@@aidenswords5809 The Bald Eagle is, yes, but they aren’t black like the bird on the cover. It’s a confusing bird: black like a crow but the talons of an eagle.
Apparantely on some website the band laughed, they thought it wos a crab, whether it wos meant to be an eagle is unclear
The short songs on both albums were likely attempts to get hit singles. At least that was true on Masque.
One thing I never hear anyone mention about Lonely Street is the fact that the narrator shoots the guy they call The Mangler in the cell they share! Don’t they pat anyone down when they arrest them in those parts? 😆
Absolutely correct. I meant to bring that up but forgot. Good catch.
@@chutch15 - It’s bugged me since I bought the record in 1976!
86 ? Puppies!
Kerry did not write the lyrics to the Devil Game that was Steve Walsh and Dave Hope.
Yep. I mentioned that.
That dichotomy is easily discerned: the shorter, rocking, bluesy songs were mostly written by Steve Walsh. The incredible, longer prog songs were written by Kerry Livgren, known by Wheatheads like me as “The Maestro.” Poor Steve just couldn’t compete.
Maybe you should pick up his early 2000's solo disc " Glossalalia".......hardly "poor Steve"......will blow your mind
Why Livgren isn't hailed as one of America's finest composers and a national treasure, is quite frankly an enormous travesty.
Agreed!
@@bennyscominI’ve heard it, but I infinitely prefer Kerry’s musical brilliance.
@@katesjanice Have you checked out "Freaks of Nature" from the early 90's?......plenty of brilliant Kansas moments on that one too........including one that Kerry contributed...........has since become one of my top 3 favorites...........
Ken, did you miss Steve Walsh's organ solo on the last cut?
I guess so. Probably wasn’t that memorable.
@@lasercd7851 Give it another spin. It really shows Walsh's organ chops. I do agree about the drum solo. I would have edited that out.
@@DropAnchor1978 Will do!
Comus First Utterance is the greatest debut album of all time!!!!
Incomudro-Hymn to the Atman is my favorite Kansas song that is highly under rated
i disagree about the drum solo on that song- i think it just as good or better than the rest of the instrumentals.
at the 9 minute 27 second mark of Hymn to the Atman it says- The Master Plan is well conceived
but i hear it as- the master plan is well 'perceived'
does anyone else hear the same thing?
hindsight and criticism are easy compared to creating and performing these songs.
a couple of the songs maybe were not first class but maybe they didn't have anything better to put on the album at that time.
It's a golden eagle on the cover, not a crow.
Right, crows don't have TALONS...
Where did you read that? Golden Eagles are rare in Topieka. 😉
@@chutch15 Stands to reason; why would you put a crow on an album called Song For America when just about everyone knows the Eagle is the national bird. All I know is I would not put a crow on such a majestic album.
The Bald Eagle is of course, not the Golden Eagle. This cover is an odd bird (no pun in tended). It’s all black like a crow but with talons like an eagle. American Crows are synonymous with cornfields and agricultural lands (which Kansas is full of). Maybe we are overthinking it and need to chalk it up to artistic license.
@@brettstrausser3846 Also true.
Title track is great. Regarding the cover, I see an Eagle. Why would you put a crow on an album called "Song for America".
There is no “shit” on either album-Song for America or Masque!
Chuck, you grouped Kansas with REO? Man that's so wrong.
Tell the concert promoters. They have toured together multiple times. But I get your point.
😃👍
I think a few on the panel need to lighten up. This was just their 2nd album. Kerry was just starting to hit his stride as a writer and Steve needed to plug in the gaps with what he was able to write - and he was never the 'prog' guy in the band. For what it is, being just their 2nd album, it's quite impressive and a building-block as to what was to come.
These shows are regularly made up of people who know these albums VERY well and some that are new to the albums...it's what gives them variety. Every panelist saying the same things about albums they've listened to and loved for 50 years is pretty boring. It's a nice change of pace to hear from people who didn't grow up with an album, and have only been listening to it for a few weeks. It's called getting different perspectives.
@@seaoftranquilityprog Pete, I agree that it is fair to get different perspectives but some of your panel, even though they gave it a "B", basically took a diarrhea dump on the album album, undeservingly so. I'd like to take their go-to prog bands and examine their 2nd albums. Pete, trust me, there will be "skips"! :^)
@@Belexes and that could very well be...but again, we all hear things differently. You can take ANY album, 2nd or otherwise, and get 5-10 people together to talk about it, and you will get different views on it.
Eeesh. I fucking love Lonely Street.
That's great. E pluribus unum. Cheers!
@@lahloonatic that is what made Kansas unique back then. They were a Midwest, American band that composed progrock as well as boogie, southern, blues rock. Lonely Street is my second favorite track on this album.
In defense of Lonely Street, its time signature swings between 11 and 12/8 :)) is that enough to make it really interesting? No. I think tunes like these were there in need of making the totality of their records to be not too artistic, make them more accessible and "American"
The song was actually called 11/8 before they recorded it.
There was a glaring dichotomy between Livgren’s symphonic arrangements and Walsh’s more pedestrian rock writing styles. That’s the main reason for the bi-polar nature of most Kansas records from The Original 6.
@@crusheverything4449 I am gonna have to go back and transcribe it. Not that i doubt you - but it would be a remarkable "accomplishment" to take an interesting metric and make it sound so bland and linear. At least to my ears.
....Well.... the short songs where early attempts to create a hit single as that's what the record company wanted. They were about to lose their contract, so why doesn't anyone consider how much the band was under pressure. And why did the first two guys get so much room? ...And why does an organ player HAVE to do solos?
Had the masterpiece Leftoverture not come along, the label may have dropped the band. Thank you Kerry!
😅Louis kills me with his right to the point " it's pure shit" why bother aspects!
Another smug elitist......of which there are a couple of in this crew.......the "professor of prog"?....gimme a break............
@@bennyscominDon’t be a hater. Be a lover.
@@lasercd7851 I rather thought I was, a music lover, that is, thanks for the tip..........."hate" is too strong of a word for music, a closed minded, immature knee-jerk response...................... it's all out there for somebody
Kansas have always been a band that’s “just kind of there” for me as Ken said about the organ on their albums is how I’ve always felt about them and I owned and listened to all their albums at one time. Their music was somewhat compelling at times, but still never broke the wow barrier for me and lyrically they were never all that interesting and leaned to heavily on religious themes at points. They wanted to be American in a truly European genre of music and it never quite works. They were a step above Styx, but that’s not hard as Styx didn’t know if they wanted to be a Cabaret Act or a rock band.
This album is uneven. A few real highs and a few lows.