The law of diminishing returns & the law of supply & demand. Most people that sink money into cars/bikes are going to lose $$$. Most of the companies selling aftermarket parts know they’re chasing a falling knife, especially in the "e-bike" market. It’s a great time for transportation & mobility up & comers, because it’s literally the wild, Wild West. I’d say buy something with pedals or ride on the street where car commuters will complain because you’re going to slow. People don’t understand or care about the limitations or electric bikes, they mainly go by the profile. The more it looks like a motorcycle/dirtbike, the more Karen’s are going to complain. Get whatever fits your lifestyle & don’t look back, otherwise, be prepared for disappointment. Technology is moving at a rapid pace & the only thing that’ll slow it down is supply/demand & affordability. This is an interesting video, thanks for sharing your concerns/thoughts.
while a lot of these bikes are bought by people with disposable income and consider it as a toy, there are people who make a living with these bikes like uber eats workers. that makes the bike purchase an investment. growing up to adulthood you realize that every single thing you buy is an investment of some sort.
@RNGesusHIMSELF Hi, 2 of the same, one 4 inch 20x4inch tires for deep sand. I live the edge of high desert wilderness. in Northern Arizona. The battery was $250 alone, tires, $40 each. Only a few parts equal a complete bike. Now I have 2 of everything, actually 3 batteries. $850 including shipping, I have immediate replacement parts if needed. The best money I ever spent. Lectric considers you family when you buy their ebikes. I live in Arizona, it keeps the jobs here, and taxes to our state. 💯 happiness.
I agree that e-bikes can be expensive and risky, also repairs can be costly. However, I see it differently, especially as someone living all the way in Puerto Rico. Here, traffic can be a nightmare, even for short distances. For example, I live only 10 minutes away from my job, but with traffic, it often takes me 45 minutes to an hour to get there! For me, an e-bike is an investment in saving time, avoiding stress, and having a more practical way to move around in a place where traffic is a big issue.
It seems to me that most people who get into PEV's do so as a hobby. Like many other hobbies, people put way more money into it than they will ever get back out of it. My dad had about $4k dollars invested in his golf clubs plus thousands of dollars more per year in other expenses. I have friends who have literally tens of thousands of dollars invested in guns for target shooting. I know other people who will go out and drop $70k on a bass boat plus thousands of dollars on rods and reels and tackle. I think the point behind a hobby is to give people a temporary escape from their otherwise mundane and sometimes painful lives. In some cases, it helps people, like myself, fight things like depression and substance abuse. It also helps social cohesion by creating communities of like-minded people. I don't look at my hobbies as an investment for potential monetary gain. I look at my hobbies as an investment in my life and health. I'm middle age, and I've lost everything that has ever mattered to me. I found PEV's, and I love to ride them, work on them, and modify them. What's wrong with that?
My E motorcycle saves me thousands of dollars in diesel fuel and maintenance yearly from April to November. If your local bylaws and climate allow, ride your Ebike as much as you can. However, PLEASE RESPECT the law and other road users. Don't be like the Surron idiots. We want to be seen differently, so act differently-Wear full gear, don't split traffic, and respect the speed limits within reason. Also, get your bike insured.
Whenever you have fun with something you just bought it and that's it ! You can never catch up with latest because technology keep evolving and there will be better as time progress.
I paid 1100 for my deepower s7 on aliexpress dual lg batteries 55ah 48v 2kw hub motor dual piston dyisland brakes dual shocks shimano 7 speed do I need anything more for the surface u are riding on?
So where does an ultra bee fit into this view tho? I feel like most who aren’t completely happy with a light bee its because they made the mistake of not buying an ultra bee then spending another 4000$ plus when for another 2000$ you can have a ultra that covers most of it.
Ultra bee is built right straight out the factory I think it's the best bang for the buck PERIOD. If someone is going to spend the money on an E-Bike the ultra is the way to go no questions asked.
I see it as a surge that ensures an initial investment for this product to start in business and stay available to market for the future... After initial investment , when the price comes down is when the consumer benefits and the market has a chance to expand. Lets say the latest best bikes , high power, big batteries that were 7500 are now going for 5000 brand new, delivered to your home... Should lead to a future market expansion and more riders next summer. they are about to be 15KW, 50AH Battery delivered for 5k. (dealers buy bulk and get bulk discounts)
Very true. And like all business the early adopters usually do alright but the early buyers are usually the ones that get screwed. But that's how the world works we live and learn.
@@Corey_Vlogs i over paid alittle on my 1st 1 or 2 electric bikes, felt a little bad, but after realizing i am initial investment for this industry, i no longer have no problem with. I am proud to invest a little more in a fledgling product that needs water (cash) to grow right now. of course some will go out of business but in the end, we just supported something special
I understand your theory, but to say that the Stark and the Surron are in the same category is a mis-step. I have a Surron but I also have other REAL bikes as well. My Beta X-Trainer 300 2 stroke enduro bike will go places that no matter how much money you dump into a Surron, will never go. When it comes to capability the Surron is no where close to the Stark or any true off road motorcycle. I had a KTM Freeride electric dirt bike as well as an Electric Motion R-Pure Race trials bike. All of these bikes were completely different and have specific use cases. I am seriously considering the New Stark Enduro model because I think it will be just as capable as my gas bike but allow me to go places that I can't take the gas bike because of its stealthy electric powertrain. I will never go away from the gas bike either and I plan on keeping the Surron because it fits a different use case for me. Surron was first to the market to introduce this type of bike to the masses and be wildly successful. As other manufacturers see the success they want to jump open the bandwagon and offer upgrades from their competition and it all ultimately benefits the consumer. After a couple years with stock 60V power, like everyone else, I wanted more. I considered buying an E-Ride or new Talaria for the 72 volt power and host of other upgrades from the flimsy Surron stuff, but in the end decided to spend 3 grand on an upgraded battery and controller. I know I will never get the money back out if it but thats true with anything that you upgrade from stock and thats not why we do it to begin with. It's a bit more fun now but I can see it becoming an addiction to endless upgrades that are available. But thats the case with any hobby. Im not trying to make the Surron into something it's not, rather just to improve it more to my riding style. I think thats the coolest part about these bikes. You can make them into whatever you want depending on how you intend on using it. I bought my Surron from a dealer because I wanted to see it first. I wanted to ride it. There are plenty of people out there like me, hence the dealer network will never go away. Direct to consumer is a nice option but Im not shelling out 14 grand for something than I have never seen in person first. I think if there were more actual brick and mortar dealers that sold Surrons, Talarias and E-Rides, they would sell a bunch more. I think these Chinese companies are still trying to figure out the American market and consumer. The typical Moto or motorcycle customer that walks into a dealer may not even know about these brands or this class of bike because they are promoted mostly through TH-cam or other electronic media. There are so many people that I have shown my Surron to that had no idea something like that existed. And just about anyone can jump on it and ride it with no prior motorcycle experience. I think there is still so much more room for growth in this category. Great video.
My main comparisons wasn’t the capabilities of the stark and surron just that I’m sure Stark is going to come out with a small bike and basically put everyone out of business.
I also can agree that more brick and mortar would be more sales. But I’m sure just like Tesla they’ll have a few dealers and most orders will be done online the dealers will be more for display.
I agree with you, but I also think that breaking the rules of roadway/trail use is kinda part of it, and it's up to the user how far they want to go. I dont ride trail, but I do ride paths and road. People dont like it, but I bought it knowing I would face stigma. Still a bad investment.
you didnt talk about location. around me ultra bees and talarias sell used for msrp price or close to it. im sure its different in a place like california where there are more of them.
Registrable frames, UL approved batteries and chargers, battery maintenance, disposal and recycling. These are the things required for any e-moto company to truly be able to push the current disaster of a situation forward more productively and create a product that has value beyond the initial purchase.
The only argument that i can come up with for a dealer having a bike vs. directly purchasing from manufacturer is impulse buyers and seeing/riding it in person. Walking into a dealership, test riding (that's kind of a big deal), and riding away the same day means something to people still. Purchasing an ebike, which is a large financial decision as is any auto/motorsport purchase, based on a youtube review can be unsettling or "not enough" to some people. I personally know what i want 90% of the time and will purchase online, but not everyone is like me and i can understand that.
yea this is very true. The impulse buyers are definitely a huge force in the market. I just imagine it like Tesla where they will have Stark dealers and that's how you'll get one.
And the YZ is a million times better of a bike bro no question. I'm just sad that I'm that deep on this thing. I'll tell ya I'll never do it again lol. My next bike is a 250f
I don't see e-bikes as anything more than toys; what you invest should be considered a loss, and just have fun with it. With battery degradation and simply the fickle nature of electronics, picking one up used is a risk. if you're hoping on getting an ebike and it appriating in value put a stock surron in a time capsule and burry it away from the OG battery for 30 years
@@low-caloriegaming5460 I get that but a toy stops being a toy when you hit a certain dollar amount. $10-$15k you can have a fully built surron or a Tenere 700 adventure bike that can travel across the country.
@@Corey_Vlogs I feel that, but it is the same way I view thermal scopes or night vision not the best investment. They depreciate faster than anything when newer stuff comes out, but they're great for having fun with the homies.
Just finished you rad vid and yeah man you have alot of great points and i do think that much of the cost is based around hype. Maybe if india gets more in the dirtbike e market the prices will go down... the ultra is pretty good bang for buck and i think worth it but indef think all these e companies from the batteries to the bikes to even the car companies are graping us consumers becauee all the hype around electric. Im waiting for that damon motorcycles hypersport to come out ~ if they are able to meet the range they say they can at the power that may be the first electric motorcycle that can tryly compete with a gas bike and we can do interstate missions on... for real realz!
Thanks man! I really think the Ultra Bee is the greatest bang for the buck when it comes to the ebikes right now. And I haven't heard of the Damon yet I need to do some research.
The prices on ebikes have never made sense to me. It's always been about twice the price as the equivalent powered scooter. Which doesn't really make any sense when the scooters are all running dual motors and dual controllers, so we have more components... The ebike bubble will crash down soon now that there are more competitors and I would expect the price to come more in line with scooters over the next few years. Just my 2 cents. For reference you can get a really good name brand 10 kw peak scooter with 72v 45ah battery for about $3300 right now. Like you say that would easily cost double, if not triple for your ebike.
WOOOOW I hadn't the slightest clue that you could get similar power and such from a scooter for 3x less!!! So we are absolutely in a bubble. Thanks for this comment bro it actually opened my eyes up. Sheesh.
The problem is that they are rich kid bikes, like the super 73.. they don’t respect them, trash them so buying a used one is a bad idea, and then their parents would rather buy a new one on credit than a used one cash.
My Altis Sigma should be coming this week, plan on spending $0 on aftermarket parts. You say you are "putzing around" on your bike but need 4k in upgrades for that? I had a stock MX3 for 2 years, sold it 2800 when I ordered my Altis, yeah I took a loss but that's simply because overall prices have come down for that spec of bike. Gas dirtbikes are a mature market, ebikes will get there eventually.
When I'm in public areas or on certain paths I put around and go as slow as possible so I don't freak anyone out. But when I'm in trails and stuff I use all the power I possibly can lol. But yea I think we are both agreeing on the same point that the ebike market is very immature and it's not a good time of entry if money is at all a concern which about 90% of people today would say that losing $5000 on a 1 year purchase is a big deal. As time goes on the market will adjust and I think we will see a steady resale value on all of these bikes. But until then it's just going to be basically burning money.
I have a stock Surron and enjoy it for what it is. Got it imported and only paid $3k. Folks buy plenty of vehicles that are advertised as "performance" machines. Only to find out they have to spend a substantial amount to track the vehicle competitively. For example, "Supras". I tend to enjoy my purchases for what the engineers, engineered it to do instead of what I want it to do. Putting another $7k into a stock Surron might be worth it for some but I'm content with what it is. This guy sounds like a Karen with buyers remorse.
Why would you buy a Stark direct to consumer for the same price as from a dealer? The dealer will have the experience in assembling/setting up the bike & most importantly, you'll be establishing a relationship so when you need parts/service, you have someone who will treat you right...not as some d... who TRIED to save some money. What about updates & modifications that dealers will be more knowledgeable about & have first call? I went to the site & they wouldn't say what the shipping cost (which you won't have to pay for) from a dealer which you don't have to pay. Sounds like a lose - lose proposition. The Surron obsolescence problem is just capitalism at work. Other manufacturers capitalized on the weaknesses of Surrons & make a better product...how is that a problem? If you bought & modified your bike with the expectation of not losing money, this must be your first bike because ALL toys lose value. That's why they aren't called...investments. If you can't afford to pay the price, it's on you for not doing your due diligence. Might I suggest . stamps collecting...they might appreciate...woopie fun
The dealers are fed the knowledge from Stark. Updates are done on the app and fixes are done very rarely and I'm sure they will have certified techs that will fix the bikes. They would sell direct to consumer for a lot of reasons. The same way Tesla sells direct to consumer. You cut out a lot of expenses. However you absolutely pay for shipping with the purchase it's called freight costs basically the price to get the bike on a truck and to a spot it's the same no matter where it goes. And there is no problem with capitalizing on something however the issue is that instead of making the products better they just make them cheaper they outsource more parts and get weaker metals and the ware parts become very frail. If they were committed to making something better I would understand but they aren't concerned with better they are concerned with cheaper. Everything on earth is some sort of investment weather it be time or money or energy... lol and I think I might pick up stamp collecting good idea
I get all your points.. personally I will still be into Lightweight e "moto". were do you ride them u ask.. I do Light enduro OHV trails Turn tracks at local wash these are fun toys man even stock if you use them for trail riding.
Yea man they are an absolute blast!! If you can spare the $$ then it’s a must lol. I just feel bad for all the parents that buy their kids a surron not knowing all the mods to come 😂
If you look at it as a hobbyist then it’s all for the fun. All the upgrades etc are for merit/speed/satisfaction. If you look at it purely for transportation then you have to assess your desired performance and buy the best bang for your buck at that performance level. A cheaply made e-bike is equivalent to a “lemon” of a used car. You’re going to run into issues. And if you mod a cheaply made bike, you’ll be running it outside of its intended use zone and you’ll degrade the parts faster unless you upgrade everything else too.
The ebike fans don't want to hear that they're just cheaply made junk. Its like they're not bad but the build quality for the price is just garbage. The pedal ebikes are fine, and the proper dirt bikes are good too (stark varg, ktm freeride) but those surron and escooters are money pits.
@Corey_Vlogs I think it is no one has actually done it and if u know these bikes it cld be great advice..especially for someone like myself that's on the market to buy one...really quick for a new rider of emoto what is the biggest bang for the buck rite now?? im thinking eride pro ss 2.0...??? or am I wrong???? thanks man...im a new sub by the way..
Just like a car. Ducking with it left right and centre and changing key components out for ‘God knows what’ greatly lowers the value 😂 No one wants to buy your mistake of a build (I’m not directly talking to you there)
hahahaha you are correct with this. And I completely agree. My wifes bike is still working perfectly and she kept it stock from the factory. Mine on the other hand is a different story haha
Still confused on why you had to turn around to see what he mumbled. Anyways, I have surrons and they aren’t e-bikes but a e dirt bike with mountain bike parts. The idiot Surronster is one of the reasons why they are cracking down. As for the dealers you need a place to work on these machines these dealers will just tell everyone we don’t work on these types of bikes and then you really be screwed. They’ve got to have some partnerships to maintain and sell additional parts.
Just wanted to know what he said felt like it was rude if I just ignored him. And I feel like they will have some specialized program that allows mobile workers to work on the bikes. I've built them from scratch every single bolt and it's a fairly simple process after a few times.
Im no expert either but I am a consumer of these bikes, one thing i will say is that these bikes are also good for new riders and new riders doesn’t necessarily mean young riders. I feel like thats something a lot of youtuber that make e moto content over look because they grew up riding dirtbikes. A lot of new riders entering the world of two wheeled transportation arent going to have nostalgia for things like exhaust sound even if we think it sounds cool. Think about it this way, what if you wanted to experience something like a dirtbike but never had one as a kid and to get into it as an adult would be difficult since cops are always chasing down loud dirtbikes, or you’re from a city where there are no tracks to legally ride this within a reasonable distance from their homes to spend time riding and learning to ride at. as a new rider you wouldn’t even want to get one knowing the legal risk. And the fact that theres no being subtle on a dirtbike because of the loud exhaust. Theres also the fact if your new to the two wheeled world you probably havent dealt with clutches in your entire life and the thought of switching gears properly else you blow up the engine is a genuine concern for someone trying to casually get into this. Just look at how surronster blows up any bike that he has to actually switch gears on lol. Also the comparitibely lower weight of these bikes just makes them easier to feel confident on these for new riders if your bike falls over for some dumb reason you can lift it with ease or if you’re on a trail and pick a bad line and have to put your feet down to save yourself from tipping over you actually can vs a 200lb+ bike were your more likely to drop it. This is why i think starks arent going to completely elclipes the amall e motos since they’re not really a good fit for new riders or casual riders, which i think is a decent percent of the people buying these. Also a new rider with no dirtbike experience isnt going to complain about the same things as the e moto youtubers since a new rider isnt immediately pushing the limits on these bikes and might find the stock speeds fast if the only two wheeled vehicle they rode before and e moto was a pedal bike. They also might not complain about components such as breaks or suspension since they have no moto experience to compare to. I myself bought my surron back in 2022 and happily rode it stock for 2 years with no urge to upgrade right away, im now getting around to upgrading it and dont care about the resale value because i didnt buy it with the thought of reselling this in mind. Also got to enjoy the stock configuration for two years and with all the mods it’s basically like getting a new bike so im excited. Also im a shorter person 5’6 so that makes these way easier to get into than a full size dirtbike or motorcycle.
Its like how honda appealed to the casual crowds back in the 60/70s when they were rebranding who motorcycles were for. Theres a market in these for new casual riders and that can be adults that work and just want to ride around town and do so casually on their days off or new younger riders that can get into these bikes without needing prior dirtbike experience. Yes there is the problem of legality and karens will almost always have problems where ever you are on these bikes, but as long as your mostly respectful most people arent bothered by them
@@contentlounge6652 i dont really know how to explain things shortly especially when its something that has a lot of factors to it, it my experience and what some other people have experienced
@@cjvalverde7660 not at all lmao people spend money on stuff people deem unnecessary or stupid all the time which is the only reason someone would have buyers remorse if they felt that way about their purchase, i love my surron so im good, some people spend 12k on a regular mountain bike, so a motorized bike costing less is fine by me. and when you grew up not even owning a bike just riding your friends when you could, you truly appreciate your stuff. Not all of us can be people that grew up in the midwest or some other big state where they got to experience these things.
I’m a motorbike and bicycle rider of 20+ years. I have two ebikes. Spending money on an illegal bike (any suron type bike) and then spending double upgrading it is only folly. Investment wise this hits the bottom of the pile 😂
@ is that a serious question? It’s an unregistered, unlicensed, untested motor Veichle. You also aren’t allowed to make a motor car in your garage and drive it on the road (unless you register, comply with all Veichle laws, get tested, etc etc) Those laws exist to stop us all being killed by idiots driving death traps. I’m not here to rain on anyone’s parade. Just stating the obvious, that spending 10k on an illegal bike isn’t necessarily the wisest financial decision. Unless you’re using it as a gateway Veichle for bank robbery
It’s an e bike lmao. What’s the difference between a 200 pound rider on a bicycle doing 20mph, and a 120 pound rider on a 90 pound e bike doing 20mph. No difference lmao
@@Corey_Vlogs my argument as well, is this: a cop doesn’t pull over and ticket a supercar owner, who’s car CAN go 200mph but who was going the speed limit. Why would they pull over and ticket a bike rider, fkr going the legal e bike speed limit on a bike path ? Just cause the bike CAN go faster than 28mph?? That’s what I will use, if anyone gives me a hard time about where I’m riding I haven’t gotten any complaints yet tho after a yeae
Why would you want to hear the loudest noise ever while riding? 😂doesn’t make any sense. Seems like your an attention seeker wanting more noise in public that's what they all say "It's not about the attention" how uneducated you sound saying "One day you'll get it" good one.
I can tell you’ve never had anything with a nice sounding exhaust. It’s not about attention. You clearly don’t understand how that works lol one day you’ll get it.
A bike that uses a throttle assisted or not is an ebike. Petal assist has a motor just like this has a motor. If we want to keep the bike path for strictly bikes then nothing should be on it except for pedal bikes with no motors.
The law of diminishing returns & the law of supply & demand.
Most people that sink money into cars/bikes are going to lose $$$.
Most of the companies selling aftermarket parts know they’re chasing a falling knife, especially in the "e-bike" market.
It’s a great time for transportation & mobility up & comers, because it’s literally the wild, Wild West.
I’d say buy something with pedals or ride on the street where car commuters will complain because you’re going to slow. People don’t understand or care about the limitations or electric bikes, they mainly go by the profile. The more it looks like a motorcycle/dirtbike, the more Karen’s are going to complain.
Get whatever fits your lifestyle & don’t look back, otherwise, be prepared for disappointment.
Technology is moving at a rapid pace & the only thing that’ll slow it down is supply/demand & affordability.
This is an interesting video, thanks for sharing your concerns/thoughts.
@@applechili2848 the perfect comment. Absolutely perfect point of view. I’m going to pin this for everyone to see. 🙏🏼
Kant Ztand dem Karenz Lol
They’re not investments in the first place.
Exactly their just really expensive toys😂
while a lot of these bikes are bought by people with disposable income and consider it as a toy, there are people who make a living with these bikes like uber eats workers. that makes the bike purchase an investment. growing up to adulthood you realize that every single thing you buy is an investment of some sort.
My 3 ebikes are my only transportation now. I quit driving a few weeks ago. They're tools, not investments to me. Merry Christmas.
Oh that's sick! Do you live in the city? I feel like they would be the ultimate city commute tool. Merry Christmas
Why 3?
@RNGesusHIMSELF Hi, 2 of the same, one 4 inch 20x4inch tires for deep sand. I live the edge of high desert wilderness. in Northern Arizona. The battery was $250 alone, tires, $40 each. Only a few parts equal a complete bike. Now I have 2 of everything, actually 3 batteries. $850 including shipping, I have immediate replacement parts if needed. The best money I ever spent. Lectric considers you family when you buy their ebikes. I live in Arizona, it keeps the jobs here, and taxes to our state. 💯 happiness.
I agree that e-bikes can be expensive and risky, also repairs can be costly. However, I see it differently, especially as someone living all the way in Puerto Rico. Here, traffic can be a nightmare, even for short distances. For example, I live only 10 minutes away from my job, but with traffic, it often takes me 45 minutes to an hour to get there! For me, an e-bike is an investment in saving time, avoiding stress, and having a more practical way to move around in a place where traffic is a big issue.
Oh wow that's a very good point. I could see it being very useful in an area like that for sure.
very good point!
It seems to me that most people who get into PEV's do so as a hobby.
Like many other hobbies, people put way more money into it than they will ever get back out of it. My dad had about $4k dollars invested in his golf clubs plus thousands of dollars more per year in other expenses. I have friends who have literally tens of thousands of dollars invested in guns for target shooting. I know other people who will go out and drop $70k on a bass boat plus thousands of dollars on rods and reels and tackle.
I think the point behind a hobby is to give people a temporary escape from their otherwise mundane and sometimes painful lives. In some cases, it helps people, like myself, fight things like depression and substance abuse. It also helps social cohesion by creating communities of like-minded people.
I don't look at my hobbies as an investment for potential monetary gain. I look at my hobbies as an investment in my life and health. I'm middle age, and I've lost everything that has ever mattered to me. I found PEV's, and I love to ride them, work on them, and modify them. What's wrong with that?
Absolutely nothing is wrong with it my friend. This was a great response 💪🏼
@Corey_Vlogs thank you.
My E motorcycle saves me thousands of dollars in diesel fuel and maintenance yearly from April to November. If your local bylaws and climate allow, ride your Ebike as much as you can. However, PLEASE RESPECT the law and other road users. Don't be like the Surron idiots. We want to be seen differently, so act differently-Wear full gear, don't split traffic, and respect the speed limits within reason.
Also, get your bike insured.
Whenever you have fun with something you just bought it and that's it ! You can never catch up with latest because technology keep evolving and there will be better as time progress.
Very true.
I think the Ultra bee is a better built bike than the Light bee, but I could be work.
I only paid $1200 for mine and I love it. $10,000 well, i don't blame this guy for going on a rant. Pretty foolish😢
You paid $1200 for a fully built surron?!?! That’s a steal!!!
What kind of battery is worth 2500$?
EBMX 72V the new one I think is still roughly $2500-$2700
I bought a talaria xxx for 3600, and sold it for 3800 lmao. If you keep it nice and maintain the battery you’ll break even
could have bought an r6
When did vehicles become investments
I paid 1100 for my deepower s7 on aliexpress dual lg batteries 55ah 48v 2kw hub motor dual piston dyisland brakes dual shocks shimano 7 speed do I need anything more for the surface u are riding on?
Where are you located? I have a cheap revv1 fs from ride1up ebike that needs a good home.
So where does an ultra bee fit into this view tho? I feel like most who aren’t completely happy with a light bee its because they made the mistake of not buying an ultra bee then spending another 4000$ plus when for another 2000$ you can have a ultra that covers most of it.
Also no gas money
Ultra bee is built right straight out the factory I think it's the best bang for the buck PERIOD. If someone is going to spend the money on an E-Bike the ultra is the way to go no questions asked.
Bro I'm 41 I agree I juz wanna Kommute Champ. These youngsters Tripping.
I see it as a surge that ensures an initial investment for this product to start in business and stay available to market for the future... After initial investment , when the price comes down is when the consumer benefits and the market has a chance to expand. Lets say the latest best bikes , high power, big batteries that were 7500 are now going for 5000 brand new, delivered to your home... Should lead to a future market expansion and more riders next summer. they are about to be 15KW, 50AH Battery delivered for 5k. (dealers buy bulk and get bulk discounts)
Very true. And like all business the early adopters usually do alright but the early buyers are usually the ones that get screwed. But that's how the world works we live and learn.
@@Corey_Vlogs i over paid alittle on my 1st 1 or 2 electric bikes, felt a little bad, but after realizing i am initial investment for this industry, i no longer have no problem with. I am proud to invest a little more in a fledgling product that needs water (cash) to grow right now. of course some will go out of business but in the end, we just supported something special
I understand your theory, but to say that the Stark and the Surron are in the same category is a mis-step. I have a Surron but I also have other REAL bikes as well. My Beta X-Trainer 300 2 stroke enduro bike will go places that no matter how much money you dump into a Surron, will never go. When it comes to capability the Surron is no where close to the Stark or any true off road motorcycle. I had a KTM Freeride electric dirt bike as well as an Electric Motion R-Pure Race trials bike. All of these bikes were completely different and have specific use cases. I am seriously considering the New Stark Enduro model because I think it will be just as capable as my gas bike but allow me to go places that I can't take the gas bike because of its stealthy electric powertrain. I will never go away from the gas bike either and I plan on keeping the Surron because it fits a different use case for me. Surron was first to the market to introduce this type of bike to the masses and be wildly successful. As other manufacturers see the success they want to jump open the bandwagon and offer upgrades from their competition and it all ultimately benefits the consumer. After a couple years with stock 60V power, like everyone else, I wanted more. I considered buying an E-Ride or new Talaria for the 72 volt power and host of other upgrades from the flimsy Surron stuff, but in the end decided to spend 3 grand on an upgraded battery and controller. I know I will never get the money back out if it but thats true with anything that you upgrade from stock and thats not why we do it to begin with. It's a bit more fun now but I can see it becoming an addiction to endless upgrades that are available. But thats the case with any hobby. Im not trying to make the Surron into something it's not, rather just to improve it more to my riding style. I think thats the coolest part about these bikes. You can make them into whatever you want depending on how you intend on using it. I bought my Surron from a dealer because I wanted to see it first. I wanted to ride it. There are plenty of people out there like me, hence the dealer network will never go away. Direct to consumer is a nice option but Im not shelling out 14 grand for something than I have never seen in person first. I think if there were more actual brick and mortar dealers that sold Surrons, Talarias and E-Rides, they would sell a bunch more. I think these Chinese companies are still trying to figure out the American market and consumer. The typical Moto or motorcycle customer that walks into a dealer may not even know about these brands or this class of bike because they are promoted mostly through TH-cam or other electronic media. There are so many people that I have shown my Surron to that had no idea something like that existed. And just about anyone can jump on it and ride it with no prior motorcycle experience. I think there is still so much more room for growth in this category. Great video.
My main comparisons wasn’t the capabilities of the stark and surron just that I’m sure Stark is going to come out with a small bike and basically put everyone out of business.
I also can agree that more brick and mortar would be more sales. But I’m sure just like Tesla they’ll have a few dealers and most orders will be done online the dealers will be more for display.
I agree with you, but I also think that breaking the rules of roadway/trail use is kinda part of it, and it's up to the user how far they want to go. I dont ride trail, but I do ride paths and road. People dont like it, but I bought it knowing I would face stigma. Still a bad investment.
yes get that guy a e-bike!
you didnt talk about location. around me ultra bees and talarias sell used for msrp price or close to it. im sure its different in a place like california where there are more of them.
Registrable frames, UL approved batteries and chargers, battery maintenance, disposal and recycling.
These are the things required for any e-moto company to truly be able to push the current disaster of a situation forward more productively and create a product that has value beyond the initial purchase.
Yep once they tackle all of that I feel like the market will actually bloom into something great.
The only argument that i can come up with for a dealer having a bike vs. directly purchasing from manufacturer is impulse buyers and seeing/riding it in person. Walking into a dealership, test riding (that's kind of a big deal), and riding away the same day means something to people still. Purchasing an ebike, which is a large financial decision as is any auto/motorsport purchase, based on a youtube review can be unsettling or "not enough" to some people. I personally know what i want 90% of the time and will purchase online, but not everyone is like me and i can understand that.
yea this is very true. The impulse buyers are definitely a huge force in the market. I just imagine it like Tesla where they will have Stark dealers and that's how you'll get one.
just to hear that they are 10000 (after mods) is insane to me because i bought my yz250f for the same price
And the YZ is a million times better of a bike bro no question. I'm just sad that I'm that deep on this thing. I'll tell ya I'll never do it again lol. My next bike is a 250f
Have you checked out the dust moto and you are right about the young gen surron riders...
I don't see e-bikes as anything more than toys; what you invest should be considered a loss, and just have fun with it.
With battery degradation and simply the fickle nature of electronics, picking one up used is a risk.
if you're hoping on getting an ebike and it appriating in value put a stock surron in a time capsule and burry it away from the OG battery for 30 years
@@low-caloriegaming5460 I get that but a toy stops being a toy when you hit a certain dollar amount. $10-$15k you can have a fully built surron or a Tenere 700 adventure bike that can travel across the country.
@@low-caloriegaming5460 hahahaha just seen the time capsule part of this comment 😂
@@Corey_Vlogs I feel that, but it is the same way I view thermal scopes or night vision not the best investment. They depreciate faster than anything when newer stuff comes out, but they're great for having fun with the homies.
These are not toys and should be looked at as 110s, 250s and stark being the 450 but in electric form....
Just finished you rad vid and yeah man you have alot of great points and i do think that much of the cost is based around hype. Maybe if india gets more in the dirtbike e market the prices will go down... the ultra is pretty good bang for buck and i think worth it but indef think all these e companies from the batteries to the bikes to even the car companies are graping us consumers becauee all the hype around electric.
Im waiting for that damon motorcycles hypersport to come out ~ if they are able to meet the range they say they can at the power that may be the first electric motorcycle that can tryly compete with a gas bike and we can do interstate missions on... for real realz!
Thanks man! I really think the Ultra Bee is the greatest bang for the buck when it comes to the ebikes right now. And I haven't heard of the Damon yet I need to do some research.
The prices on ebikes have never made sense to me. It's always been about twice the price as the equivalent powered scooter. Which doesn't really make any sense when the scooters are all running dual motors and dual controllers, so we have more components... The ebike bubble will crash down soon now that there are more competitors and I would expect the price to come more in line with scooters over the next few years. Just my 2 cents. For reference you can get a really good name brand 10 kw peak scooter with 72v 45ah battery for about $3300 right now. Like you say that would easily cost double, if not triple for your ebike.
WOOOOW I hadn't the slightest clue that you could get similar power and such from a scooter for 3x less!!! So we are absolutely in a bubble. Thanks for this comment bro it actually opened my eyes up. Sheesh.
The problem is that they are rich kid bikes, like the super 73.. they don’t respect them, trash them so buying a used one is a bad idea, and then their parents would rather buy a new one on credit than a used one cash.
My Altis Sigma should be coming this week, plan on spending $0 on aftermarket parts. You say you are "putzing around" on your bike but need 4k in upgrades for that? I had a stock MX3 for 2 years, sold it 2800 when I ordered my Altis, yeah I took a loss but that's simply because overall prices have come down for that spec of bike. Gas dirtbikes are a mature market, ebikes will get there eventually.
When I'm in public areas or on certain paths I put around and go as slow as possible so I don't freak anyone out. But when I'm in trails and stuff I use all the power I possibly can lol. But yea I think we are both agreeing on the same point that the ebike market is very immature and it's not a good time of entry if money is at all a concern which about 90% of people today would say that losing $5000 on a 1 year purchase is a big deal. As time goes on the market will adjust and I think we will see a steady resale value on all of these bikes. But until then it's just going to be basically burning money.
What about eride pro? The new shit is cheap already
I feel like it's the best bang for the buck right now
They have never been a good investment. I thought we all knew this😂
I have a stock Surron and enjoy it for what it is. Got it imported and only paid $3k. Folks buy plenty of vehicles that are advertised as "performance" machines. Only to find out they have to spend a substantial amount to track the vehicle competitively. For example, "Supras". I tend to enjoy my purchases for what the engineers, engineered it to do instead of what I want it to do. Putting another $7k into a stock Surron might be worth it for some but I'm content with what it is. This guy sounds like a Karen with buyers remorse.
Why would you buy a Stark direct to consumer for the same price as from a dealer? The dealer will have the experience in assembling/setting up the bike & most importantly, you'll be establishing a relationship so when you need parts/service, you have someone who will treat you right...not as some d... who TRIED to save some money. What about updates & modifications that dealers will be more knowledgeable about & have first call?
I went to the site & they wouldn't say what the shipping cost (which you won't have to pay for) from a dealer which you don't have to pay. Sounds like a lose - lose proposition.
The Surron obsolescence problem is just capitalism at work. Other manufacturers capitalized on the weaknesses of Surrons & make a better product...how is that a problem? If you bought & modified your bike with the expectation of not losing money, this must be your first bike because ALL toys lose value. That's why they aren't called...investments.
If you can't afford to pay the price, it's on you for not doing your due diligence. Might I suggest . stamps collecting...they might appreciate...woopie fun
The dealers are fed the knowledge from Stark. Updates are done on the app and fixes are done very rarely and I'm sure they will have certified techs that will fix the bikes. They would sell direct to consumer for a lot of reasons. The same way Tesla sells direct to consumer. You cut out a lot of expenses. However you absolutely pay for shipping with the purchase it's called freight costs basically the price to get the bike on a truck and to a spot it's the same no matter where it goes.
And there is no problem with capitalizing on something however the issue is that instead of making the products better they just make them cheaper they outsource more parts and get weaker metals and the ware parts become very frail. If they were committed to making something better I would understand but they aren't concerned with better they are concerned with cheaper.
Everything on earth is some sort of investment weather it be time or money or energy... lol and I think I might pick up stamp collecting good idea
I get all your points.. personally I will still be into Lightweight e "moto". were do you ride them u ask.. I do Light enduro OHV trails Turn tracks at local wash these are fun toys man even stock if you use them for trail riding.
Yea man they are an absolute blast!! If you can spare the $$ then it’s a must lol. I just feel bad for all the parents that buy their kids a surron not knowing all the mods to come 😂
Sorry bro honestly I don’t think I agree with you on anything accept kids being douche bags on them, good video tho
Appreciate you bro 🫡
If you look at it as a hobbyist then it’s all for the fun. All the upgrades etc are for merit/speed/satisfaction. If you look at it purely for transportation then you have to assess your desired performance and buy the best bang for your buck at that performance level. A cheaply made e-bike is equivalent to a “lemon” of a used car. You’re going to run into issues. And if you mod a cheaply made bike, you’ll be running it outside of its intended use zone and you’ll degrade the parts faster unless you upgrade everything else too.
chain drive will make it louder bro ! awesome vid!
Bro, I like the jeans. I had a pair of those in High School in the 80s😎.
@@flyingparamotors-scottcrat5569 haha thanks man! My favorite riding jeans!
The ebike fans don't want to hear that they're just cheaply made junk. Its like they're not bad but the build quality for the price is just garbage.
The pedal ebikes are fine, and the proper dirt bikes are good too (stark varg, ktm freeride) but those surron and escooters are money pits.
Finally someone that gets it.
now someone needs to mk a vid on buying guide for used emotos...
I'm going to do that tomorrow! That's a really good idea. I'll post it soon!!
@Corey_Vlogs I think it is no one has actually done it and if u know these bikes it cld be great advice..especially for someone like myself that's on the market to buy one...really quick for a new rider of emoto what is the biggest bang for the buck rite now?? im thinking eride pro ss 2.0...??? or am I wrong???? thanks man...im a new sub by the way..
Just like a car. Ducking with it left right and centre and changing key components out for ‘God knows what’ greatly lowers the value 😂
No one wants to buy your mistake of a build (I’m not directly talking to you there)
hahahaha you are correct with this. And I completely agree. My wifes bike is still working perfectly and she kept it stock from the factory. Mine on the other hand is a different story haha
Still confused on why you had to turn around to see what he mumbled. Anyways, I have surrons and they aren’t e-bikes but a e dirt bike with mountain bike parts. The idiot Surronster is one of the reasons why they are cracking down. As for the dealers you need a place to work on these machines these dealers will just tell everyone we don’t work on these types of bikes and then you really be screwed. They’ve got to have some partnerships to maintain and sell additional parts.
Just wanted to know what he said felt like it was rude if I just ignored him. And I feel like they will have some specialized program that allows mobile workers to work on the bikes. I've built them from scratch every single bolt and it's a fairly simple process after a few times.
Yea i use mine for transport and fun .. cops dont bother me unless im being stupid😅 ...
basically how it is here in FL for now. But these kids are getting wild punching cop cars and all sorts of stuff.
@Corey_Vlogs yea that will mess it up for everyone smh
Where in the world do you ideally ride a Sur-Ron. Not sarcastically but where on earth do you ride one of these bikes?
where ever the hell I want
@@realkidcarter hahah exactly!!!
Im no expert either but I am a consumer of these bikes, one thing i will say is that these bikes are also good for new riders and new riders doesn’t necessarily mean young riders. I feel like thats something a lot of youtuber that make e moto content over look because they grew up riding dirtbikes. A lot of new riders entering the world of two wheeled transportation arent going to have nostalgia for things like exhaust sound even if we think it sounds cool. Think about it this way, what if you wanted to experience something like a dirtbike but never had one as a kid and to get into it as an adult would be difficult since cops are always chasing down loud dirtbikes, or you’re from a city where there are no tracks to legally ride this within a reasonable distance from their homes to spend time riding and learning to ride at. as a new rider you wouldn’t even want to get one knowing the legal risk. And the fact that theres no being subtle on a dirtbike because of the loud exhaust. Theres also the fact if your new to the two wheeled world you probably havent dealt with clutches in your entire life and the thought of switching gears properly else you blow up the engine is a genuine concern for someone trying to casually get into this. Just look at how surronster blows up any bike that he has to actually switch gears on lol. Also the comparitibely lower weight of these bikes just makes them easier to feel confident on these for new riders if your bike falls over for some dumb reason you can lift it with ease or if you’re on a trail and pick a bad line and have to put your feet down to save yourself from tipping over you actually can vs a 200lb+ bike were your more likely to drop it. This is why i think starks arent going to completely elclipes the amall e motos since they’re not really a good fit for new riders or casual riders, which i think is a decent percent of the people buying these. Also a new rider with no dirtbike experience isnt going to complain about the same things as the e moto youtubers since a new rider isnt immediately pushing the limits on these bikes and might find the stock speeds fast if the only two wheeled vehicle they rode before and e moto was a pedal bike. They also might not complain about components such as breaks or suspension since they have no moto experience to compare to. I myself bought my surron back in 2022 and happily rode it stock for 2 years with no urge to upgrade right away, im now getting around to upgrading it and dont care about the resale value because i didnt buy it with the thought of reselling this in mind. Also got to enjoy the stock configuration for two years and with all the mods it’s basically like getting a new bike so im excited. Also im a shorter person 5’6 so that makes these way easier to get into than a full size dirtbike or motorcycle.
Its like how honda appealed to the casual crowds back in the 60/70s when they were rebranding who motorcycles were for. Theres a market in these for new casual riders and that can be adults that work and just want to ride around town and do so casually on their days off or new younger riders that can get into these bikes without needing prior dirtbike experience. Yes there is the problem of legality and karens will almost always have problems where ever you are on these bikes, but as long as your mostly respectful most people arent bothered by them
The buyer remorse is real for this 1
Dude just dropped a presidential speech holyyy
@@contentlounge6652 i dont really know how to explain things shortly especially when its something that has a lot of factors to it, it my experience and what some other people have experienced
@@cjvalverde7660 not at all lmao people spend money on stuff people deem unnecessary or stupid all the time which is the only reason someone would have buyers remorse if they felt that way about their purchase, i love my surron so im good, some people spend 12k on a regular mountain bike, so a motorized bike costing less is fine by me. and when you grew up not even owning a bike just riding your friends when you could, you truly appreciate your stuff. Not all of us can be people that grew up in the midwest or some other big state where they got to experience these things.
I’m a motorbike and bicycle rider of 20+ years. I have two ebikes.
Spending money on an illegal bike (any suron type bike) and then spending double upgrading it is only folly. Investment wise this hits the bottom of the pile 😂
What statute makes them illegal?
@ is that a serious question?
It’s an unregistered, unlicensed, untested motor Veichle. You also aren’t allowed to make a motor car in your garage and drive it on the road (unless you register, comply with all Veichle laws, get tested, etc etc)
Those laws exist to stop us all being killed by idiots driving death traps.
I’m not here to rain on anyone’s parade. Just stating the obvious, that spending 10k on an illegal bike isn’t necessarily the wisest financial decision. Unless you’re using it as a gateway Veichle for bank robbery
@@mrboult And this is why I do not own an eBike! Thank you,
Stark varg add super motto wheels youll be good to go
That's not an "e-bike" that's a e motorbike get it right I can see why you get comments being on the bike path
It’s an e bike lmao. What’s the difference between a 200 pound rider on a bicycle doing 20mph, and a 120 pound rider on a 90 pound e bike doing 20mph. No difference lmao
Its literally an ebike you chud
@adult93 HAHAHAHA
@soeks77 THANK YOU!!!!
@@Corey_Vlogs my argument as well, is this: a cop doesn’t pull over and ticket a supercar owner, who’s car CAN go 200mph but who was going the speed limit. Why would they pull over and ticket a bike rider, fkr going the legal e bike speed limit on a bike path ? Just cause the bike CAN go faster than 28mph?? That’s what I will use, if anyone gives me a hard time about where I’m riding I haven’t gotten any complaints yet tho after a yeae
this bikes meant for the younger generation buddy, it’s okay to be old
Why would you want to hear the loudest noise ever while riding? 😂doesn’t make any sense. Seems like your an attention seeker wanting more noise in public that's what they all say "It's not about the attention" how uneducated you sound saying "One day you'll get it" good one.
I can tell you’ve never had anything with a nice sounding exhaust. It’s not about attention. You clearly don’t understand how that works lol one day you’ll get it.
@@lowz6229 lol
So get a bicycle and a soy latte and move on @@lowz6229
@@lowz6229just say you can’t afford a real bike 😂
@@iMortalMisfit broke battyboy keep bumin him lmao yur a proper wetwipe
That's not an "e-bike" that's a e motorbike get it right I can see why you get comments being on the bike path
A bike that uses a throttle assisted or not is an ebike. Petal assist has a motor just like this has a motor. If we want to keep the bike path for strictly bikes then nothing should be on it except for pedal bikes with no motors.