FromSoftware's Flawed Survival Horror Masterpiece | Kuon
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 มิ.ย. 2024
- #kuon #survivalhorrorgaming #horrorgaming
Kuon is a third-person survival horror game by From Software. It was released in 2004 for PS2. And while it hits some amazing highs, there are a few lows as well.
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Cosmology of Kyoto: • The Scariest Education...
0:00 Intro
1:02 Game info
4:51 Story setup
9:14 Gameplay & Visuals
14:57 Music & Sound
16:36 Enemies
18:18 Combat basics
19:44 [Over]analyzing combat
23:07 Difficulty settings
27:17 Story - yin phase [spoilers]
44:30 Story - yang phase [spoilers]
52:35 Story - kuon phase [spoilers]
58:40 [Over]analyzing the story [spoilers]
1:08:31 Conclusion
1:09:21 Outro
#ps2 #gamereview
#fromsoftware - เกม
a From Software game that has translation errors that directly affects the game or story? I see that is also a time honored tradition.
Oh if only you saw the translation for the PAL version of King's Field 4. There's a line that was translated as "the sick babes of darkness fought over the healing H20"
@@hesiolitei miss the era of dodgy translations and voice acting. I recently finished Dynasty Warriors 9 Empires on Switch, and I honestly missed the old dodgy English voice acting
@@Rynewulfyou would LOOOVE pathological (2005)
@@Avarice420 oh ive heard things about that notorious game! Ive watched several reviews and think it would be a bit too slow burn and high difficulty for me, but the dialogue and cutscenes absolutely work in favour of the surreal atmosphere and its honestly wonderful to see in action!
Everything from Demons Souls on has been good. There’s cultural things like Pinwheel that could never be accurate, but such is the nature of translation.
>be Abe no Seimei
>enters estate
>kills antagonist
>leaves
>refuses to elaborate
"Refusing to elaborate" is a very Seimei thing (especially for fans of the Yumebakura Baku version of Seimei)
And the beta chuds still say that Sigma is the best mindset they could ever have, they need to know about Abe no Seime to become an alpha being
The outcome of your typical wizard rivalry.
Yep, that’s basically every version/interpretation of Seimei in a nutshell.
The chad Abe no Seimei Vs. The virgin Ashiya Douman
Yes, I realize he has a child, no, he's still a virgin at heart.
Being abducted as a young woman in ancient Japan would probably be significantly worse than being killed, I'd imagine.
Being abducted as a young woman anywhere today would probably be worse than being killed.
I was thinking the very same thing. I don't prefer to bring up privilege, but.
Sorry, no offense meant to the content creator, but like.. You know? The possibility of a fate worse than death didn't even occur to him. There wasn't much...empathy present. Empathy or lack of social awareness. I will choose to lean toward the latter, if only for my own sake, lol.
@NinKiwi007 You can flip anything to be ‘insensitive’
You are just presenting the patriarchal opinion that women’s sexual purity is more valuable then their lives.
It’s just a dumb exercise and you look dumb doing it. No disrespect, total disrespect.
@NinKiwi007
‘There wasn’t much…empathy present.’
No, there certainly isn’t, but it’s not from the content creator… As if not knowing about ancient Japanese customs means you have ‘privilege’ or don’t have empathy 🙄
@@joshualuke7003 I think you lack empathy and social awareness too. Being abducted as a young woman could mean rape, torture, mutilation... These scenarios are often described as 'fates worse than death'.
Think before you cast shade.
It's worth noting that the child Utsuki at the end is carrying mulberries, not flowers. I think that's the solid evidence you're looking for.
so the girl is the twin? or the servant boy Miyoshimaru silkworm ?
@@fletaun Yes
Thought as much! Though maybe a different version since she isn't all gunho on doing bad things.
Makes me think the twins were originally victims of this ritual as well but were crueler... or Utsuki is somehow special because she was able to fight the change until she fused with her father. Or maybe 2 twins fusing?
further reinforced by the fact that Abe no Seimei gives her spikes, and tells her that it is her responsibility. So it would be likely that the reincarnation is closer to the twins than not. It could be the twins are crueler because they were failed attempts that despite passing kuon, were unable to let go of the grudges that consumed them, thus continuing the ritual to cause more suffering while potentially creating more of their kind that could understand them. Where as Utsuki/Kureha was able to overcome her hatred because it was implicitly divulged to the fused sisters that the twins were the ones responsible for the elder sisters death, and not Utsuki. This could also play into why the father was so dismissive during that scene as despite his noted reasons in the notes, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that at some point he was a normal dude devastated by the loss of a child, only to on the quest of bringing said child back and losing the ends along the way, know that child killed your other child in an unjustified fit of revenge. Hence his "you're an idiot for not believing your sister."
It would be interesting to see the original japanese, simply because of the fact that its entirely within the realm of possibility that during the translation more humanizing elements of the father could have been lost. Fire Emblem Blazing Blade comes to mind, as the big bad in that one lost an entire point of connection to the plot in the translation, that turns him from just a power hungry dude, into what was a father trying to see his children again only to get so lost in the power he needed to do so completely lose sight of his original goal.
@@nightbane44 also to revive his wife. I can't really see a need to make Morphs other than to try and bring the dead back to life.
At 49:00 when Utsuki talks about dreaming it's a translation error, she's saying she thinks the worms are dreaming a long dream in their cocoons, not that she thinks she's dreaming.
I think the implication however was to draw the parallels with what the person inside the basket could be dreaming of as well. Especially when it shows that at points you are playing as a person who crawled out of the basket, some of the odd seeming inconsistencies could be explained as the person inside the basket dreaming.
Hi, can you show me the list of translation error of this game?
Did you also watch GabSmolders play through of the game lol
@@nastybigJimgab is such a gem for translated games since she actually speaks Japanese and gives so much context
Yeah, the critical error is that it should be "I think they must be dreaming". Not "I think I must be dreaming".
Fun fact: The main villain, Doman and third character, Abe no Seimei are loosely inspired by the real character in Japanese folklore. There's even Abei no Seimei shrine in Osaka, Japan. It was small but frequented by many visitors.
I have heard Abe no Seimei due to him being a common reference in anime. Don't know the whole story on him but he is typically portrayed as some massive heroic mystic sorcerer. Seems like his importance was something as big as a pope, but his stuff is not derived from God. Like if the Emperor needed something, he would call on Abe to fix it.
Doman on the other hand I only know of because of Fate and he was definitely written as a villain in one of the most entertaining ways. He was entertaining because he was so 1 dimensional as an unapologetic villain having all the classic villain tropes. As in his actions are so predictable but at the same time incredibly annoying to get rid of because he refuses to die.
The kicker to his reason to being a villain was because he was bitter about everyone knowing about Abe no Seimei, that he gets completely overlooked. This is despite him being competitive with the things Abe was able to pull of, but falling short, probably due to some character flaw. Kind of like being forgotten despite coming in 2nd place and wanting to curse the world because of it. In the story Abe was in the background trying to help us. Once we defeated him Abe had a one to one talk with Doman, like "Are you ok buddy?".
I haven't play this game yet, but I didn't realize it was set in the Fujiwara family estate. That adds some historical importance to the settings.
The Fujiwara were the puppet masters behind the Emperor during the Heian period. Something they achieved by marrying their daughters to tbe Emperors.
Therefore this games is set in the home of the most powerful person in Japan.
This is basically the script of a Linfamy video
@@leonardoferrari4852 Of course. How could I forget that tidbit about the Fujiwara when it's basically Linfamy's catchphrase?
1:06:57 the little girl is literally holding Mulberries .
To seal a Mulberry tree (little demon) you need spikes, hence the given extra spikes by Seimei. -It’s Sakuya’s choice to seal away the little new demon or use it like how (Seimei used Demon Boy).
-It’s the power Doman wanted by sacrificing his daughter to merged his own version of (Demon Boy), so he can go toe to toe with his rival (Seimei).
-The Kuon spell is a summoning ritual to create a new obeying Mulberry Demon, (Doman) was killed before the final step and became part of the last merge, creating the new little demon girl.
this explains so much and makes it so much clearer
The priest's chant is one they still use today! I watched Gab play this a while back and she mentioned learning it when she was doing a tour of temples in Japan. Can't remember what it's called, but yeah.
Oh cool. Thanks for the knowledge!
I think it's the Heart Sutra (Maka Hannya Haramita Shingyo).
@@haroldshea3282 yes it is! 32:39 you can hear Kan ji zai bo sa gyo- jin han-nya ha ra mi ta ji sho- ken go on kai ku- do is-sai ku yaku.
"bye little boat, I love you!" There's something very relatable about this. Whenever I play scary games I actively try to make it lighter by trying to find things to focus on like this. It usually ends up with me imagining the character reaching a safe room and then saying, "Well, I live here now"
This comment articulated a feeling I've had in several video game locations. Thanks
I did not realize I did this till I read your comment. I play with the physics engine to lighten the mood, or carry a pointless prop around and pretend my character is attached to it
@@godzillanightmareWhy do us gamers have little quirks like this? Like, for me it's collecting all the teddy bears in Fallout New Vegas, or giving nicknames to enemies who's names I don't know the official name of. Exp: I call the crows that lay on the ground in Bloodborne, "Derpy Birds."
the teddy bear instinct. having a lil buddy helps.
@@godzillanightmare I carry the waifu's picture around in Signalis for that but also because I thought the game would eventually do something about it.
I think that maybe the way merging/separating inside the wicker chest works is that the two bodies do actually merge, but the merged entities see themself as separate still. since the ritual is for the silkworms and not the people merging, it makes sense that you wouldn't want to upset the host using your ritual by letting them see what they actually become.
I like this theory, makes sense.
wait so does that mean that the child at the end is a silkworm reincarnated as a human?
@@erickschusterdeoliveira2662first merging is human corpse and silkworm. Only one is alive in this case and will reap benefits.
I managed to find this game once at a garage sale. It came in the original packaging, had a manual in pristine condition and cost me no more than $3.00. I knew i was lucky to have found it.
I often fantasize about finding rare ass games like that at garage sales for 3 bucks or something. You are so lucky!
God, I miss game manuals. Like, not only was the artwork in them fun to look at, but sometimes they'd have important tips to read up on, and controls.
Nowadays, it's either a pamphlet for some upcoming game nobody cares for, or nothing at all. Like, why even bother having those slots in a game case if there's no going to be anything there at all!
For historical context; the Heian period was from 794 to 1185AD and it was a major period of cultural growth with the capitol being moved to Kyoto, the suspension of trade with Tang China and later in 1006(ish) AD Japan's first written Novel "Genji Monogatari".
The Fujiwara clan was a noble regent family that held the power of sovereigns over Japan instead of the Emperor. Basically if every US Senate representative was biologically part of the same extended family and had the authority to not only over ride the President but also the House and SCOTUS. They were kind of a big deal.
Wait till you find out that every US president has been biologically related to the same extended family 😂
@@Tinfoiltomcat And you are too. almost every single person with European ancestry, is related to King John and any peasant around in King John's time.
Except for Martin Van Buren.
very cool. i had no idea the Fujiwaras were a real clan, thanks for sharing!
@@liamaugustwas sukuna also there
She appeared in a game or anime ...chika fujiwara
Kuon speedrunner here. The fading woman looks like Ayako to me, so could be related to that. Also, I think the hole problem can be chalked up to game logic, since it's not needed to be done in Yin Phase at all (again, speedrunner here.)
When Kureha throws Utsuki off the cliff *cannot* be when Utsuki dies. When she is thrown off the cliff and you circle back there as Sakuya, *before* you try and open up the wicker basket with Doryo and Kureha inside, if you go down the rope ladder to the bottom of the cliff where Utsuki was thrown, you find her unconscious *but very much alive* (Sakuya even says as such, and the game audibly shows her breathing). However, once you get the mirror and go back to the tree (after Kureha chases Sakuya) and the game has the cutscene where Sakuya burns the tree, descends, and the rope ladder is cut... Utsuki is gone. However, I think you're on to something.
I always assumed that Utsuki getting knocked over by vertigo by Kureha after the Lady Fujiwara fight was when the sisters met up again, then they went back to the mansion and met up with Doryo, which is where Sakuya found them. Always chalked up the mansion parts being the same between them as good ol' fashion RE-style repeating puzzles between scenarios. I believe that Mansion for both characters happen relatively at the same time (Sakuya comes at the area from the northeast, and Utsuki from the southwest). Then I believe it happens roughly in this order:
- Sakuya goes through the Temple first. You meet Sakuya in Yin Phase a LOT earlier than you meet Utsuki in the Yang Phase (since Sakuya starts in the mansion, and Utsuki in the garden), so it makes sense that she gathered the pieces to get into the Temple first. Then Utsuki goes through the Temple, meets up with Kureha. They beat Sakuya back to the forest simply because this is their home and they know the way around better (or know a shortcut from the Temple, I dunno, the beginning of the game is the hardest to place chronologically).
- Sakuya, Utsuki, Kureha, and Doryo head to the Shrine as seen in Yang Phase. Utsuki is thrown off a cliff, Kureha merging with Doryo is interrupted by Sakuya, and between Sakuya getting back to the mulberry tree, interrupting the merge, and getting back to set the tree on fire, someone (my bet is Doman, or possibly the twins) yeets Utsuki into a wicker basket, possibly finishing the job on her first, since she wakes up in the Nursery. All her Nursery stuff happens, and she wakes up in another wicker basket that is *conveniently right next to* where Kureha last was seen in Yang Phase at that point. I believe that THAT is when they merged, as the wibble-wobble same-person, Kureha-Utsuki stuff happens *after* that point. Utsuki runs through the temple, gets back to the tree, jumps off the cliff, makes her way through as normal.
So, essentially I think it's this:
- Mansion (both phases, roughly at the same time)
- Sakuya Temple
- Utsuki Temple (possibly with some overlap, like Utsuki is with the priest while Sakuya is fighting Fujiwara and leaving or something).
- Sakuya Forest Segment
- Utsuki Nursery segment happens while Sakuya is dealing with Kureha/Doryo and the second half of the Shrine, after someone takes unconsious Utsuki away.
- Utsuki Shrine happens while Sakuya is dealing with the beginning of the Nursery. Utsuki and Kureha merge in the wicker basket at the moon mirror pool area.
- Utsuki makes her way through the first half of Nursery again while Sakuya is finishing it up.
- They meet roughly where they meet at the ending. Then Kuon Phase occurs slightly after.
The big things this doesn't explain to me is how Sakuya gets injured between Yin/Yang and Kuon. Is Kureha still chasing her or something? If they are merged at that point, why does it seem like they are in two places at once? However, this could be explained somewhat with the teleportation abilities the twins have; perhaps that explains why Kureha and Utsuki can appear to be in two places at once.
... this game is so wibbly-wobbly. xD
*korea
@@rodneysmith873 which part of all that is korea, my guy
@@doedoel035 It’s a joke from the video where the English dub pronounces Kureha as "Korea."
33:25 The priest is reciting the first line of the heart sutra (or maka hannya haramita shingyo - 摩訶般若波羅蜜多心経): "Gyo jin han'nya ha ra mi ta ji, shô ken go on kai ku, dô issai ku yaku". the sutra reflects on coming to the realisation of the emptiness of mortal life, the five senses and sufferings. There are recording of the chant on TH-cam if you want to hear the whole song. It's the shortest and most commonly recognised and transcribed buddhist chant in Japan.
Also, as a fun fact (if I remember correctly, anyway): writing these lines on your body is supposed to make one invisible to ghosts. Guess it didn't work out too well for this poor fellow either way.
I thought this was set in Shinto shrines? Are the sutras used in both shrines and temples? During my times in Japan, I generally kept away from the shrines - I thought they were for Japanese people. I just visited the temples - Buddhism is more an international thing. But I probably totally missed the intro, and it was all set in temples after all!
Anyway, when I did a Buddhist pilgrimage in Japan (I'm no Buddhist - it was an excuse for a nice 1,000km walk in the countryside!), at every temple we were supposed to say a prayer - it was pretty long, but I had a smaller version.
I did the pilgrimage in 2008, and I still remember the words (though the spelling will be completely wrong! It was;
Uya uya shiku mihotoke wo rehai shi tatematsuru
At least that's the best I can recall after 15 years!
@@ZachariahJ The sutras are rooted in Buddhism, which I believe had a fair amount of influence in onmyoudou's practices, rather than Shinto, which is focused on reverence of nature and the gods found in all things.
@@Shuukuriimudaisuki-sama
Cheers for the reply!
I was just confused about this particular video really - I know about the Shinto animism (you see it in every Ghibli movie!).
But I was wondering if the game was set in a Shinto shrine or a Buddhist temple.
If the priest in the game was chanting a sutra, does that mean he was a Buddhist?
Or do Shinto Shrines also use them?
I suppose I'm an associate of the Kogen Sect. Not a member - just an associate. Kobo Daishi (Kukai) is my main man!
@@ZachariahJ No problem! The game is set at the manor/estate of a prominent nobleman. The onmyouji fellows are there for the more esoteric part of their job, it seems, namely breaking curses and exorcising evil spirits. They are not priests themselves, but basically masters of controlling spiritual energy? It's kind of hard to describe in a couple words what onmyouji actually do, but they do a lot of spiritual things without actually being priests if that makes sense. 😆 The sutra being changed is just for protection. It's not too uncommon for someone to ask for the protection of the Buddha, especially in dire spiritual situations like this.
This type of Japanese folklore horror just hits different. It's not just spooky monsters that are going to tear you limb from limb. It's spooky monsters that you can only kind of grasp the nature of which at best just want to dismember you, but more likely will drag you kicking and screaming into fates that claw at your very soul, things death won't save you from. It's a lot more threatening when the very nature of your being is at stake, not just life and limb.
Kuon has its problems, but it does a great job of filling the player with dread. Everything about the mansion and its grounds makes your skin crawl. Even the good people in the story seem uncanny and make you want to keep your distance. Fatal Frame has a similar effect, but I'd argue Kuon does it just a little better, and things like the characters not moving their mouths when they talk just add to the sheer wrongness of it all.
I think the original SH games borrowed a lot from these ideas for their horror, too. Why the Western ones don't hit as hard IMO.
Woah, i wasn't expecting the rivalry of Ashiya Doman and Abe no Seimei to appear in a videogam (other than Nioh 2). For context, these were 2 of the most renowed Onmyos during the Han period, with Seimei having a well known reputation as a powerful exorcist and a sage while Doman was known for dabbling in the dark arts, summoning demons and craving power in his selfish desire to surpass Seimei
The messed up situation with the Lady of the manor may have been due to the influence of the centipede, which was often seen as a collector or sign of bad luck, bad fate or 'evil'. Merging anyone with one of those, even in an already messed up ritual like this, would be bound to have nasty consequences
The light and dark naming of the chapters is just a reference to yin and yang. There is a light, masculine side (I believe yang) and a dark, feminine side (yin). The feminine side is seen as being reserved and secretive. It actually makes sense to the chapter and how it's so confusing. You play the secretive yin chapter and than the yang chapter to learn more of the story and the secrets presented in the yin chapter.
That's just how I interpret it
It's a shame they didn't adapt Ashiya Doman and Abe no Seimei's real life duel, where Doman tried to make Abe no Seimei guess the number of oranges in a box, and Abe no Seimei replaced them with rats. Too much ghost sorcery, and not enough goofy slight of hand, Kuon! (Kuon's one of my favorites, and this video's real good, thanks!)
Real life?
@@gadellomagnollo1810 Yeah, they were real people.
I am amused that this duel makes it sound like they had a goofy Tom & Jerry-esque rivalry going where each lost duel just ended with Doman shaking his fist and going 'Oooooh that Seimeeiii', with this game being the equivalent of someone writing a super-angsty and edgy fanfic of how their rivalry was actually SUPER-SERIOUS YOU GUYS. I am very amused by knowing this.
12:41 - I'd argue that the thing Miyazaki brought to the FromSoftware table was streamlined, accessible gameplay that didn't sacrifice depth, and more refined and responsive controls, which combined together created an experience still had a bit of a learning curve, but only enough to entice you to overcome it rather than quit entirely. that delicate balance of creating obstacles that you feel like you can overcome with enough knowledge and skill is the formula they tried and almost got with Demon's Souls but absolutely nailed with Dark Souls.
but yeah, pretty much everything else was a staple part of FromSoft games right from the very start. Miyazaki is only one guy, and helped a lot, but he was leading a team who already had their own distinct methods of worldbuilding and storytelling and he absolutely did not mess with their methods.
So it was this game that started FromSoft into the path of, "Too easy you say, we take that personally."
*just an edit to say that a lot of things were lost in translation. i will only write two things you touched on the video:
46:20 about the son's name.
Due to a translation mistake, the Fujiwara's son (name which is 万寿 (Manjû/Longevity) is missing from the English version. The name appears twice in the 奥方 diaries. He is indeed the person mentionned in Lady's Fujiwara diary 1 and 2, not Miyoshimaru. Here is the original text:
四月二十三日・万寿が訪ねてきてくれた、ああ、愛しき我が子御前の肉は何と柔らかなのでしょう.
I noticed the wiki did also correct the text by "my son came to visit" instead of "Miyoshimaru came to visit".
39:03 on Douman's ploys.
The translation of Douman's diary is quite the exageration. Original reads "you dog of the royal court, once the spell is perfected, you'll be lying prostrated at my feet"(朝延の犬よこの呪法が完成したときこそが、貴様が我が足元に屈するときよ) and not "whoring yourself".
i guess a guy on the localization team misread "prostrated", thought it meant something else, or thought the other guy was translating wrong
and ended up with "prostituted" then *fixed* it as "whoring"
It never ceases to impress me how most of FS's games carry very similar themes and iconography of Shintoism after so many decades even beyond the more obvious titles like Kuon and Sekiro. I'm seeing bits of this Shinto-esque pull in Bloodborne, Elden Ring and even the recent Armored Core 6. In particular, the Mulberry tree, metamorphosis imagery, the twins and the emphasis of needles sealing away otherworldly entities are all elements Elden Ring absolutely leans into and we even see this repetition again with other FS PS2 titles like EverGrace.
Needle Launcher in Armored Core 6 for removing the shield (seal) of the worm. :D
FS seems to have a strong aversion towards the idea of you being reborn or resetting your life cycle.
Elden Ring is full of buddhist themes as well with the philosophy of the frenzied flame
@@ru1su720 the mortal coil and the cycle of reincarnation. it's pretty common in non-western thinking
@@KyokujiFGC honestly the buddhist themes are sorta everywhere because of how much syncretism has happened between shinto and buddhist practices
There are 2 scenes I remember in Kuon:
1)The peek hole scene
2)When running the castle, there was a Juon moment when there's a ghost looking at you on top of a pillar as you pass by.
great game!
I think when they enter the box, the corpse became a cocoon for the living dead to use, like going inside them and then would later burst out of it, that's why Kureha can be seen 'coming out of' corpses and the brother guy, and why the remain of the cocoon (corpses) can still be found in the box. I don't know HOW they did it with rat or centipede, but that's the best I got.
I think it’s probably supposed to be the soul using the bodies as cocoons. I saw another comment that this ritual seems like a way to speedrun the Buddhist reincarnation cycle (when you commit sin, you reincarnate as an animal and if you do more good than bad, you reincarnate as larger and larger animals until you reincarnate as a human). The original body of the resurrected deceased is also in a constant state of decay. I think the soul goes into the body of the offering in the wicker box and gradually sucks the energy out of it. When the merging is complete, both bodies are left behind and the discarded human corpses probably become wrapped into a cocoon for later consumption (since their flesh is still intact)
Commenting again for the interaction! Because Buddhism is the most common religion in Japan. The way I look at the ritual is basically a way to cheat the afterlife reincarnation system. And quickly run through all 8 animal reincarnations before being re incarnated as a fully human baby. Giving you a second chance on life basically. And there are rumors of people being able to remember past lives and stuff like that. And I know it's easier for animals to reincarnate as a better animal next time because it's harder for animals to sin in Buddhism basically. But as a human there are so many sins so most humans don't end up reincarnated as another human right after they die. Most of them have done more bad than good in their life (just eating meat your whole life is enough to have you reincarnate as an animal in the next life I'm pretty sure). So humans who did particularly bad things such as killing a family member are definitely going to be reincarnated as an insect next after spending a significant amount of time in buddhism he1. 1 but I guess the way this ritual works in order for you to retain all of your memories you have to retain some of your previous form. Which is basically your soul. So your soul is in the original form you died in but also merging with a centipede and then a rat and then a little bit of a bigger animal etc. I feel like this doesn't fit perfectly but I definitely believe that this is what the game was going for in my opinion. A way to skip all the other reincarnation and retain your own memories. Maybe not all of the memories but your personality and a lot of them
That sums it up perfectly. A few questions remains, like why the way the ritual was intended, the silk worms end up "ascending" into mulberries (maybe that makes sense in the context of buddhism). Or why Doman was confident it would work despite never being intended for humans. Or the ritual existing in the first place. Not that important overall, the mysteries and guess games keep the setting fresh in the unlikely case FS ever wants to revisit it.
@@uruloki2758 I'm so glad you commented! Because that sent me down a rabbit hole I googled about mulberries and silkworms to see if they held any symbolism or there were any Legends involving buddhism. And here's a quote about them
"Silkworms represent the path of the Buddha, and the seeds of their virtuous deaths will beget the greatest holy beings of Buddhism. In this way, the process of sericulture and especially the killing of silkworms is depicted as a noble sacrifice, enabling the fulfillment of bodhisattva vows and promoting the greater Buddhist goods of perfected compassion, generosity, and the ultimate end of suffering.”
So it's definitely no accident that silkworms and the mulberry tree (which they do eat in real life) were put into this game! I would love from software to do a remake like they did with dark souls 1! My biggest problem is I loved the setting of Sekiro but something about it just didn't feel the same as dark souls. I love all of the other games bloodborne included. But just something about sekiro I can never really get into the game! Maybe because it's not horror like the other games?
PS Unfortunately I can't add the 1ink to the source I used without my comment getting immediately deleted due to them cracking down on spam on TH-cam now. But you should be able to easily find it if you just look up silkworms symbolism Buddhism.
@WhitneyDahlin idk the people turning into carp/dragon things were pretty spooky. But for reals though I understand. You mentioned Buddhism is the most common religion in Japan, is that current day as well or just back then?
I like the detail that the twin from the not burned tree has a bleeding punture near his neck that I think comes from the fact that that one had the spikes in the past
I feel like although 9 grudges is the kanji used the ku is more a play on the fact that 9 九 is an unlucky number in japanese because of it's similar sound to a different ku 苦 that means pain and anguish. So like a lot of weird japanese word play it has a ton of meanings like nine grudges 九怨、eternity 久遠、and something like painful grudge 苦怨
I was a bit confused as isn't the number nine pronounced 'Kyū', not 'Ku'?
Must be the play on words due to their similarity. Like Okami meaning 'Wolf' and 'Great God'.
@@Claidheambmor It's both, the way the number four is both "shi" and "yon" depending on context words.
The title menu song from _Final Fantasy X-2_ is given in-game (in the North American release, at least) as "KUON: Memories of Waves and Light". Emblematic of the era, the fan-translations of the soundtrack titles circulated quicker, which saddled it with "Eternity ~Memory of Lightwaves~".
I didn't realise Kuon is from FromSoftware!! OMG this was my favourite game in PS2 era.. I remembered how many times I played this game!!
When I heard the priest chanting I got flashbacks! This is Hannya Shin-gyō, or the heart sutra. He is starting at the very beginning, missing only the “kanjizai bosatsu…” This is a very widely used sutra so with a few threads to go off of hopefully you can find a translation that will quench your curiosity!
These words were written in sanskrit originally, but have been translated to japanese and pronunciation!
I really love this sutra. It described the perfect emptiness beyond existence and would comfort those confronting death. What a noble priest, speaking words of enlightenment and peace despite his current conditions.
Not enough people talk about this game. As far as I'm concerned, it's a masterpiece. It's a shame copies are basically impossible to acquire, I'd love to have a physical copy.
People never believe me when i tell them that FromSoft made a survival horror game on the PS2 lol.
Yeah it’s a shame that the only way to get your hands on this game is emulation unless you wanna spend ridiculous amounts of money on a physical copy if you could even find one
I just looked on eBay and there are 20+ copies available of Kuon. They are very expensive though, so I am assuming this is what you meant by 'basically impossible to acquire'.
Physical media is great and all but we're blessed with emulators and in the end it's the game itself that matters. The developers worked on the game, not the packaging. Enjoy. :)
Burn the ISO into a dvd. There's your copy lol
@uruloki2758 given how prevelant chipped ps2s were back in the day, that would be fully era-appropriate!
Ironically, this game's release was slighly overshadowed by a closely timed release of From Software's Otogi 2 for Xbox. On the footage that shows Kuon's gameplay at TGS 2003 it's possible to hear DoRe - Voice song on the background which is a main theme of Otogi 2 (and both games feature Abe no Seimei character as well).
I know remakes are the new craze now for survival horror but if this company remix this game that would be pretty amazing and re-released in everywhere I'm pretty sure a lot of horror fans would love it.
Yeah unfortunately fromsoft have heavily shifted their focus since demons souls and now kinda just make the same game over and over. Im not complaining though they're great games, just a shame the devs don't have as much artistic freedom anymore.
You have become one of my favorite youtubers
I really appreciate that! Glad you’re enjoying what I do.
+1
I suppose the Onmyouji are somewhat analogous as a social class to priests in medieval Europe.
Not quite royalty, but because they're in charge of interpreting God's will and what not they were considered rather important.
Loved this video, started with your Cosmology of Kyoto video and love seeing this stuff, just so neat. Great job, looking forward to everything in the future!
God, this game is SO FASCINATING. Thank you for such a great, thorough deep dive! 😃
I REALLY loved the video! I love those long and throughout analyses of complex stories in games. Please, do more of those!
I don't like horror games but I played through this and had a lot of fun. It's not difficult or really even challenging because you can heal at any time infinitely. The atmosphere and story is what kept me playing. If they had taken out the infinite heals, I think the tension could have been improved and encouraged you to use more spell cards. My first playthrough I barely used spells because I didn't know if I'd need them later and who cares if I take damage using melee when I can just meditate after.
Saw one of my favourite PS2 games and clicked the video as fast as I could. Awesome job man keep it up.
The title menu song from _Final Fantasy X-2_ is given in-game (in the North American release, at least) as "KUON: Memories of Waves and Light". Emblematic of the era, the fan-translations of the soundtrack titles circulated quicker, which saddled it with "Eternity ~Memory of Lightwaves~".
Amazing video! I love these long form summary and analysis videos and would love to see more!
i'm also glad you appreciate pre-Miyazaki fromsoft. They have made almost entirely high quality games their entire existence. Miyazaki is the cherry on top of the banana split.
EDIT , sorry i'm posting again but the 45:57 something stuck out to me. Sekiro. Has a similar 'feudal japan' art style, ( i don't really know if thats even a real thing.) But yeah the horror , traditional folklore thing. Oh and of course the CENTEPIDES in there.
ou appreciate pre-Miyazaki fromsoft. They have made almost entirely high quality games their entire existence. Miyazaki is the cherry on top of the banana split.
EDIT , sorry i'm posting again but the 45:57 something stuck out to me. Sekiro. Has a similar 'feudal japan' art style, ( i don't really know if thats even a real thing.) But yeah the horror , traditional folklore thing. Oh and of course the CENTEPIDES in there. I realise they're associated with stagnation and decay in Japanese lore. Probably a commonplace idea but it's still a nice bit of connection between the two games
no mention of abe no seimei being a well known onmyoji? he's (they pulled a Fate genderswap) one of the most famous in japanese history
@@yaobikuni1349 omg I love your username so much
In other appearances (including Abe no Seimei's appearance in Otogi, another From Software game) I always assumed that he/they is protrayed as somewhat androgynous/nonbinary because they got so powerful in both Yin/Yang mastery that they essentially embody both male and female aspects.
They explain the genderswap in a DLC.
Found your channel today with the dead of the brain vid. Great vids! Love that you dont just do a review, but you include the storys. Keep it up!
Great vid as always! You keep covering such interesting games.
I love your videos so so much, you're definitely one of my fave youtubers! I'm so happy whenever you release a video on an obscure topic hehe
Alright, let me grab my popcorns and watch this banger
Yet another banger, thanks for the hard work!
I love your channel! This was the best video! I love this game and you doing a very deep dive of it shows a lot of love in each of your videos. Thank you! ❤
Completed that game about a year ago, emulation of course. Was fascinated with the setting (I'm a huge fan of medieval Japan), and surprisingly deep story.
Thank you. I’ve been looking for a video explaining this game. It sounds great.
this was an extremely well made and engaging video. i think you did kuon a lot of justice - i had no idea what the fuck had just happened when I finished it and I didn't try to figure it out
I forgot this even existed.
Loved this game and I've never known anyone else that's played it.
I wish we still got games like this.
Yay, someone else remembers this old game! I loved this just like Fatal Frame 1 back in the day.
I never realized this was made by fromsoftware. I remember playing this after work in broad dayight and it would still scare the hell out of me when my cat would scratch/push open my door while I was playing when I was home alone lol. And omg that scene early on when you look through the hole @.@. Anyway I was in to Japanese ghost stuff like juon back then so I loved this game. It was so satisfying to get the kuon phase and be able to finally just wreck sht with the op lady lol
Thanks so much for the great review. You've sparked an interest to give this game a go. Keep up the great content!
God, I desperately want to play this, and have finally decided to take the emulation route (after doing that for Shadow Tower Abyss a while back) - feels so goddamn creeptastic
Also, I think i watched everything else you’ve put out, so happy to see a new video drop! This feels like an unofficial sequel to the video about the game focused on the supernatural history of Kyoto (which was amazing and I’d never heard of it)
I love this game. I’d give an arm and leg for this to get a modern remaster
just discovered this channel! Great coverage on another hidden horror title. Still have yet to play this though.
Always a good day when Dungeon Chill uploads a new video.
Back with another banger i
Love your vids man
29:02 playd this game with my brother when i was 7 years this moment was such a shock that we stopt the game and had nightmares for weeks... to this day i cant look trough peepholes because of anxiety
Thanks very much for the video and to let me remember a core memory again^^
Great video like always man
Kuon is all good but...
BUT DID YOU KNOW THAT THE FUJIWARA CLAN FAMOUSLY MARRIED THEIR DAUGHTERS INTO THE IMPERIAL FAMILY MAKING THEM RELEVANT FOR 200 YEARS?
I'm looking for this comment 😂😂😂
@@rukahazuki6650 yay linfamy gang
I love the humour you put into these. Subscribed.
This game looks so cool. Great video!
I watched your video on baroque and never thought I’d find your channel again but thankfully I found this vid!
The chant at 33.30 is Heart Sutra, if you wanna check it out. Its have translation too which is really deep and philosophical. Talking about existentialism and something similar.
Always a good time when my notifications take me to a comfy Dungeon chill video.
I'm going to throw my hat in the ring and say your next game is Limbo of the Lost.
I love the story for horror games rooted in some traditional local culture/mythology/ritual. Fatal frame comes to mind that also made me interested in the story. Enjoyed your vid.
I absolutely love this game and I'm so glad to see you've done such a thorough job analyzing it! I haven't played it in like 10+ years now, but I remember I went out of my way to buy a used copy from Amazon (no packaging) to play it myself after watching someone do a let's play of it on TH-cam. Money well spent. My wife and I discussed theories on the story for a good few days after I beat the Kuon phase with Seimei (which was so pimp, gawdamn). I also loved the three main chars were all chicks of considerable talent and skill. I didn't realize it was a From Software game until AFTER I played Bloodborne and went back to play Kuon again.
Thanks for covering this little gem!!
I remember playing this game with my old pink PS2 when I was younger, around middle school. It left quite a lasting impression on me, especially with the Kuon phase. After "crawling" painfully through Yin and Yang phases, I suddenly started playing as this buffed and overpowerful female baddass, walking through the creepy manor like it was a walk in the park while casting powerful spells left and right. It was both unexpected and extremely satisfying! :D
Had fun playing this, the atmosphere was spot-on!
I remember playing this. Thanks for the video.
When the twins said to Utsuki that "everyone" is dead, THEY really mean it.
Spoilers:
If you made it to the last part of the game, it will make sense.
32:14 messing with you during a save scene which was supposed to be routine is something that should be done more of.
Just in time, thanks brotheeerr
Needed this today
Glad to be of service
@@dungeonchillsheeeeeeesh 😭
Thanks for everything you do man!
Fantastic video man, I couldn'0t help but watch it all in one go and I originally wanted to watch it as a "background vid" sort of deal. Earned a Like, Comment and Sub from ym part.
This review was good. You got yourself a sub for this.
While I played Kuon back in the day from a friend in middle school who was into Japanese culture.
I had forgot the damn name for the longest time so this was perfect.
Very fascinating. 🎭 Finally someone who talks in detail about this game and actually takes the time to analyse it and explain it properly. (Even with a hint of humor. I like that a lot.)
I’ve heard so much about this Japanese horror game, and I gotta say that it’s a very interesting and fun looking survival horror game that FromSoftware ever made on the PS2. I just wish that it gotten a remaster release, if the game was very well received back then. I seriously love this creative title screen they’ve made.
Very detailed video , thanks man.
The story is weird but I'd love to see a complete remake of this game.
I had never even heard of this until I played through all the dark souls and search up the game company named trying to find other games of theirs. Ive never been able to play this though but I always LOVED the concept behind this game. I'm just such a sl+t for horror set in old japan!
“I’m just such a sl+t for horror set in old Japan!”
Me too!😂
Horror Sl@ts, assemble!
6:25
I appreciate this section. You're doing god's work my dude. Love your videos, keep it up!
Always thought the protagonist had a pretty striking design with the long black hair and red robe
dude this video was fucking amazing man!! good job on making something so interesting about a game ive never heard of
Thanks for the video!
Thanks for making this video! I remember playing this back when I was a teen and I really enjoyed it.
A small thing I wanted to add is that Ashiya Doman and Abe no Seimei are historical figures that get referenced in games and anime.
They are both in the shin megami tensei series, but I never noticed. I did learn about them from playing the mobile game Fate Grand Order and it seems to hold the same character archtype: that while Ashiya Doman is a powerful onmyōji, he can just never quite catch up to the genius born once every lifetime that Abe no Seimei is.... this leads to him becoming resentful and having an ugly heart that just wants to beat Abe no matter the cost.
Beautifully designed horror game! brings back my childhood memories... thanks buddy!
My theory is that the girl in the ending is some sort of a merged soul between Utsuki, Kureha and Doman as their merged soul reincarnated.
amazing video. I found this game really haunting when I watched Gab play it years ago. this was a great way to revisit it. thank you. and thank GOD you can pronounce Japanese properly... I should sub to you just for that.
I always thought this game was really beautiful. The colors are so striking and everything is just so unsettling.
The main menu cycling through different artwork, the main theme, the multiple protagonists. It's incredible.
Great synopsis and analysis 👍
That was very interesting, thank you
Shows up,no diffs the main villian,no diffs the haunting twins,has no blood on her when she's done.
excellent video, but the monks chanting isnt "evil sounding", thats just how reciting sutras (the Heart sutra i think?) sounds like in japan. think of it like someone repeating the lord's prayer or the hail mary. it does sound ominous but only because its incongruous: why is there prayer in this murder mansion? then we find the tragedy that it's a trapped monk, using the last of his breath to offer succor to those suffering still...
@@yaobikuni1349 my thoughts exactly! like sure maybe its not familiar but i find it frustrating. like one can definitely make a case for the contrast of the monotone prayer and the melodious curse song, but cmon.
yeah, the same people also find latin chanting spooky. even that feels like theres more thought behind it than "chanting Bad"; because of like, satanic panic and xtian horror (with satanic antagonists doing "inversions" of xtian rituals) got associated with latin and such.
After finding out his daughter is also in the manor, dude just sends her on an errand in demon-houae.