This would have been great analysis for me to do a year and a half ago, before boring my group to tears with a poor rendition of Storm King's Thunder. Thanks - I'll try this next time!
I think this is a bad idea. 5e players are super heroes and run at every threat like idiots. Having the bad guy available too early will result in TPK and the players quitting or they surprisingly win, ending the game prematurely.
I finished my first read through a few days ago. My initial impression was that of all the published adventures I'd dug into, this one worked the best on its own with no major changes. I can't argue with any of your recommendations though and the connection to Ispin improves the story by a great deal, so I'll likely be adopting some or all of these suggestions when I run it. Kinsaldi's primary manifestation of power is going to be via the dragon, and I'm just not sure how to realistically square the evacuation of Vogler via boat when you've introduced that element.
I suppose just having her fly in and torch the town as everybody evacuates by boat then fly off, just ignoring everybody as they are of no importance is a good way to do it. It's worth pointing out just who Kansaldi is in the overall saga. She is the commander of the Red Dragon Army`s third wing assigned to act as security for Emperor Arakis`s pet flying fortress project so protecting that is her main objective, attacking the local towns and cities is just a side issue, she has several superiors she has to answer to. Presumably, the first and second wings, along with most of the army`s dragons and Lord Verminaard are down south invading Abanassinia at this point. So Kansaldi has her own wing plus the army`s dragonalls for use as couriers to keep Sanction informed as to how the project is progressing.
So much good advice! Thanks! I ran zero level flashbacks during the trip to Vogler for the funeral that depicted their first meeting with Ispen and how they adventures together for years.
This is AMAZING! I am a long time DM who's had a subconscious understanding of these concepts, but you've done such a wonderful job of bringing concrete attention to goals and overall story arc of adventures here. Thank you for putting out such great content. My players will have a more enjoyable campaign because of your putting this out into the world. Thank you!
I just finished reading through the campaign book and am starting a group through it in a couple of weeks. Thanks for the insights. I really like the idea of tying Ispin's shield (or maybe an introduced artifact also gifted to the players) as a hook to the larger adventure as an item sough by the big bad. The story of the recently acquired artifact could be told by Darrett or another NPC at Ispin's wake (perhaps as the story that is rudely interrupted by Bakaris the Younger). Another layer could be to include the surrender of that artifact to the list of demands by the Dragon Army seeking to occupy Vogler, which could create further tension between the players and Bakaris Sr., when Bakaris demands the players surrender the artifact and later blames them for the siege.
This is such a help in identifying flaws of the adventure that can be fixed before I run this! I am looking forward to hearing more. These fixes do these great villains a lot more justice.
This is awesome, and yeah, when yo started to talk about the "final boss" or the "real threat", it reminded me on all the fixes that I had to do with ghost of saltmarsh, make Mr. Dory a menace in the begging who has an alliance with the sahuagin because they have an old ancient relic that it will release the kraken. Also changing the order of the adventures and adding two more cities that appear in the module but they talk very little of them. Adding more adventures to make it feel like it's all tied together and not just side quest. Anyway, being a DM is awesome and sometimes cames with a huge challenge
Loved this. I've been watching tons of reviews and you are the first to make any kind of substantive constructive critique of this adventure. I just finished reading it and have found tons of potential but a lot of rewriting needed to fully take advantage of that potential. I'll be especially curious to see how you deal with chapters 4 and 5, which I personally find have the most potential but need the most rewriting. I can't give more specifics without spoilers, so I'll leave it at that (I've posted my thoughts on the r/dragonlance reddit behind a spoiler veil if anyone is curious). Looking forward to your next vids.
ปีที่แล้ว +2
I just ran the Ispin's funeral last night, so next week will be the Festival and perhaps the Battle of High Hill. And I LOVE the idea of connect the Green Shield with Kansaldi's goal!
Glad I listened to this. I'm about to start the campaign for a group of 4. My initial idea now is to have Kansaldi being the cause of Greenshield's death and he fell defending against one her raids but injured her in the process. Something something she turns up to take his shield as revenge and to spit on his grave as it were something something
Many thanks for sharing the helpful review with creative ideas! i decided not to use the adventure module part off the book, and your suggestions are superb for different ways to develop. i very much liked the book for the setting, in terms of: a) simplified version of the world history and lore; and b) logical and realistic settlements, including actively used or in ruins. These aspects in my view are way better than trying to use Forgotten Realms
I'm waiting until February and the board game tie-in - both my players and myself are quite psyched to see how all that fits together (we will be gutted if it sucks, but on principle it sounds like a great way to mix up playing and gaming styles).
@@HowtobeaGreatGM, I tweaked Out of the Abyss so much, I'm sure if the players read the book now they'd barely recognise what was in there! Some of the major beats, maybe, but several bits the book almost 'threw away' became weeks of campaign stuff for my gang! The early stuff ran almost to the book (although I could never have written what they did in the prison break-out at the beginning in a million years!); however, once you see what the players become more invested/interested in, you steer/nudge the story that way. So much more fulfilling for both players and GM.
Thanks for the heads up on the missing story, just git the book today and looking as doing a long campaign to get tiamat at the end and the 9 levels. I love dragons and already have an idea for 5 dragons for the play group . It's will be interesting.
I am not sure if I am completely vibing with the “Player in the cape” character. The transitions seem a bit out of sync? Maybe I just need time to adjust. You may consider reintroducing the character every video. Similar to “Jack the NPC” from another channel. I am sure the character will find its voice in the process. Thanks for the video!
Spoken like someone who encountered Dragonlance for the first time. SotDQ is very much a prelude to very significant events that will happen a few months after the end of this campaign, and is both covered by novels and older edition campaigns. The unseen big bad is the Dragon Queen, a goddess of evil. She has built not one but multiple armies that have already conquered at least half the continent. She has so many subordinates that it's like fighting a hydra. There are multiple heads to cut off, each head is doing it's own part to serve the greater whole. That's why there are five villains, from Kensaldi to Lohezet to Belephaion to Bakaris to Soth. All these flaws are actually misclassified or misunderstood non-issues.
Wouldnt ot be better to have the death dragon goal more about increasing the armies strengh like bolstering the army having soth be constantly making the army bigger and stronger so foiling any his plans would weaken the army
I am planning to run this campaign in future and I thought this video was EXCELLENT. Very keen for more, please, and to see more detailed planning. Be careful though, WOTC might bring you on as a consultant if you are not careful ;)
Indeed, or play 3rd party modules, or a different game that doesn't require so much work. Long D&D 5e adventures always require so much fixing to salvage a proper experience.
@@SquatBenchDeadlift455 Eh, the changes he's suggesting, while honestly great, are incredibly minor. Hardly "so much fixing" to salvage a "proper experience", whatever that is.
There is no such thing as a perfect adventure. It is impossible. Regardless of system (yes, I'm looking at the grognards). PC agency is always going to change things. And no matter how robust a creator's approach to writing a module is, there are always going to be things that happen than cannot be accounted for.
@@HowtobeaGreatGM Very true, Sir. I mainly mean that I find plenty of illogical choices and poor writing decisions in most long 5e adventures that WotC publishes. Also, their decision to publish the books without choosing to do some of the small quality of life things that other companies and creators do. Things like lists of treasure and enemies at the start of each chapter. Proper descriptions and details of locations to make running them smooth, etc. When I was a new DM, chapter 3 of Storm King's Thunder left me mentally scarred.
New viewer! As someone jumping into your videos, they seem really well thought out and informative, but they also seem to assume the viewer is familiar with a lot of jargon that im assumiing you've established in earlier videos. Do you have specific primer videos one should watch before they watch your other videos?
What I would with Dragonlance as a setting (a setting built around the theme of war): Someone has travelled back in time using THAT Device of Time Journeying and changed the timeline. Now the original Heroes of the Lance are no longer the heroes - your game's PC's are. Go defeat Takhisis! Or not!
I played in a Dragon Heist campaign and when we got our Tavern, I was like "Aw yeah! I'm going to build this ting up!" and so that's exactly what I and one of the other players in the party did. We were playing "Dungeons & Spreadsheets" our GM said. That one other player and I invested money into the tavern, interviewed and hired help, dealt with guilds, competition, small sabotages, and were having a blast. Meanwhile, the other players in the party were apparently playing extra sessions or something, because they were running around following the main questline, which my business-partner-player and I didn't see the clues of, and the other players didn't share their information with us.. And, I don't mind that exactly. What miffs me though, is that one day the GM declared "Alright, that wraps up the campaign!" And the partner-player and I were both like, "What?" And the GM said, "The Dragon Heist campaign is over, the [censor] was [spoiler block]." And again we were like, "Huh?" And he said, "And you two were too busy running your tavern to even know what was going on around you!" - What miffs me is not that we didn't know what happened in the main storyline (I could careless honestly. I clearly wasn't interested in it, and even now am only very mildly curious... about the least curious a person can be without being not curious at all), no; What bothers me is that he declared the campaign was over because he had finished the material in the book. Over? OVER!? I've got a tavern to run! He continued to run D&D after that, but he started up a new campaign, I forget which, I wasn't interested, I want to run my tavern.
All I heard hear was a lot of "I didn't care" and "I want I want I want." No wonder nobody wanted to play with you. You sound like a terrible player breaking the social contract of gaming.
@@hawkname1234 How did you get, "Nobody wanted to play with [me]" out of that? Our group only stopped meeting when the game store closed due to COVID-19, and I'm in four gaming groups a week right now.
@@hawkname1234 Oh, I see how you got that impression. Well, we started up a new campaign immediately after that one as the same group of players. That campaign was over, but our group continued until COVID-19 forced the game store to shutdown.
Wonderful points as always. I really want to know what you're doing with Ispin!! My players start this adventure tomorrow night and I'm struggling to make him meaningful to them.
Ok I'm confused about Lord Soth. How much more powerful then the party could he be? I belive that the book goes from 1 to 10 soth is a death knight sure maybe a bit more powerful given his history but still a death knight. I had a campaign set in kyrnn Andy party at level 13 destroyed a death knight. Granted he was by him self but I couldn't see Soth a major threat to even a level 15 party let alone a level 20 not with a 18 CR even with minons
Lord Soth is CR 19. He flies on an undead dragon which is CR 14. I'd like to see any party of CR10s go up against him. Having said that wait till my review of the adventure where the PCs destroy his plans. Then you'll see me moan...
Big one (Spoiler): The Ironclad regiment is paid off at the start, sure... But where is the money? Must be a substantial amount... but how much? And again, where is the money? I decided it was 5000 Gold and back at the Ironclad regiments camp... but still kinda unclear.
I have a problem with how to handle Lord Bakaris once he arrives in Kalaman. According to the book he takes a leading role in the city and is even commanding a taskforce. But I can't figure out how to reason this. As he might be a lord (whatever this title really means in Kalaman), he's an exiled one from the west. Enhanced by his incompetence and arrogance, he shouldn't have any political influence in Kalaman. So, how do you make him a leader in Kalaman? My first thought was to make him a Kalaman noble in the first place. Then you only need a reason, why he is in Vogler. Maybe there's his summer residence..... 🙂. But I'm not sure.
Story is what happens between the adventures. I had a Fey-Patroned Warlock and role-played a whole conversation between him and his familiar (Mys Terri, who was often in the form of an owl) that ended with him promising to have a helmet made for the owl. Mys Terri eventually stopped showing up when summoned, objecting to being used as a scout, and he ended up summoning Mys Nomer, who was an idiot.
GMing is so difficult this day because GMs have to try to remember all the plots and plans of all these NPCs that the GMs themselves didn't create, make sure that things go according to the adventure well enough that the players can see the story as intended, but also not have the players feel like they're being railroaded as they go along on this ride like a leaf on a river, thinking their choices matter while in the back of their minds knowing they really don't (just like most video games). And on top of all that, after putting all this work in as a GM, you don't get the enjoyment of emergent play. And instead of stories being player driven, they're GM driven, and that's what most of the new players expect from games.
I ran Out of the Abyss a few years ago, which had various subplots/twisty-turny plans in it. I moulded what I needed to to suit my players, so the plots, etc., could exist but if they didn't want to chase them down, so be it. I also made much more player-driven twists: Gracklstugh was a real highlight - one of my PCs (an exiled drow monk) ended up in an arena-style 1-on-1 fight with the succubus who was trying to subvert the King, and the outcome of the showdown was Themberchaud took over the running of Gracklstugh! (Again, that was driven by decisions the players made) I always feel, so long as I twist what's in the book to suit my players and put them front and centre, they're happy!
GMing modules is a skill, but there are lots of ways to do it efficiently and produce a great game. You're over-gereralizing and assuming your experience is universal. It's not. Player choices can and do matter in modules and many player groups have taken modules off the rails. Then the consequences are the consequences. There is just as much enjoyment from emergent play and players driving the story. The ONLY thing that's different is whether the GM wrote the plot and did all the work or somebody else did some of the work. An experienced GM should know this. If you are a newer player, I suggest trying it out. Gm have been running modules successfully for literally half a century.
I've GMed a metric cr#p ton of different TTRPG systems - EVERY PRE WRITTEN adventure for any game you can think of has issues/adjusting that is necessary. Thinking that WotC has a monopoly on adventures that need fixing is naive at best.
@@simonfernandes6809 There is adjusting to your own table and style, then there is fixing. WotC is hot garbage right now. Keep on defending them if you want.
@@jasonmountain4643 Who said I'm defending WotC? I'm saying every RPG has issues with adventures - including WotC. Your bias is obvious - and apparently your comprehension is suspect too.
From what I recall heroes reunite with no idea an invasion is going on. Cue surprise attack they escape and eventually discover the princess has a staff of healing that eventually leads her to become the first cleric of one of the Good god's. Meaning no healing spells barring potions, that staff and the bad guys having clerics of Takhisis. And as for the creation of the Draconians. .oh boy!
The problem is, if I ran that, several of my players would know where all the major plot points/beats would be, 'cos they've read them too! This is a whole new Dragonlance adventure that everyone can get invested in, 'cos none of us have seen it before.
@@stevenallison3860 I was wondering what if an airship crash lands near the village and the PCs investigate learn of the invasion from a Solamnia Knight aboard who was sent to seek reinforcements (like Sturm Brighblade for example). The village is attacked and the knight implores the PCs to carry the message he was carrying to a nearby fort as he attempts to launch his airship to give the village time to escape?
Nah. This is grognard gatekeeping BS. This is a whole different story. There are a ton of issues with retreading the OG DragonLance modules, beginning with the fact that they're so famous that many people already know the plot.
It is a good product. I can't fix holes if I don't know what needs fixing. As a base I'll only be changing minor things to make it BETTER. The majority of it is solid stuff. As I said: it takes the grunt work out of prepping not all the work :)
@@hawkname1234 Most certainly not. There is nothing that cannot or should not be critiqued. We must critique with contribution (or suggestions or references) otherwise we're just complaining.
My man, I hate to say this- but the most fun I've ever had with D&D has been with 5th edition over the last few years... ...because this is the first time I've avoided ALL of their campaign books. Railroading quests, eye-rolling 'purse puppy' NPC's, and most of it seems like it was written for a Care Bears cartoon for girls. It's just absolutely awful and every respectable GM I know has not only refused to use them, but *prohibited them from being brought to their table* and I respect this. Here's hoping Hasbro/WotC does some housekeeping. Until then, I'll be playing other games that aren't D&D.
![[5th Ed] Running My Dragonlance Campaign - Where Did I Start?](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QXFz_kieaBI/mqdefault.jpg)
![[5th Ed] Running My Dragonlance Campaign - Where Did I Start?](/img/tr.png)
*Thanks for watching!* What are your thoughts? Do you think I've missed something? Let us know in the comments below!
This would have been great analysis for me to do a year and a half ago, before boring my group to tears with a poor rendition of Storm King's Thunder. Thanks - I'll try this next time!
I think this is a bad idea. 5e players are super heroes and run at every threat like idiots. Having the bad guy available too early will result in TPK and the players quitting or they surprisingly win, ending the game prematurely.
@@JasonFahyqa5@5a5r55 55 55 5 55 person
I finished my first read through a few days ago. My initial impression was that of all the published adventures I'd dug into, this one worked the best on its own with no major changes. I can't argue with any of your recommendations though and the connection to Ispin improves the story by a great deal, so I'll likely be adopting some or all of these suggestions when I run it. Kinsaldi's primary manifestation of power is going to be via the dragon, and I'm just not sure how to realistically square the evacuation of Vogler via boat when you've introduced that element.
I suppose just having her fly in and torch the town as everybody evacuates by boat then fly off, just ignoring everybody as they are of no importance is a good way to do it.
It's worth pointing out just who Kansaldi is in the overall saga. She is the commander of the Red Dragon Army`s third wing assigned to act as security for Emperor Arakis`s pet flying fortress project so protecting that is her main objective, attacking the local towns and cities is just a side issue, she has several superiors she has to answer to.
Presumably, the first and second wings, along with most of the army`s dragons and Lord Verminaard are down south invading Abanassinia at this point. So Kansaldi has her own wing plus the army`s dragonalls for use as couriers to keep Sanction informed as to how the project is progressing.
So much good advice! Thanks! I ran zero level flashbacks during the trip to Vogler for the funeral that depicted their first meeting with Ispen and how they adventures together for years.
This is AMAZING! I am a long time DM who's had a subconscious understanding of these concepts, but you've done such a wonderful job of bringing concrete attention to goals and overall story arc of adventures here. Thank you for putting out such great content. My players will have a more enjoyable campaign because of your putting this out into the world. Thank you!
I just finished reading through the campaign book and am starting a group through it in a couple of weeks. Thanks for the insights. I really like the idea of tying Ispin's shield (or maybe an introduced artifact also gifted to the players) as a hook to the larger adventure as an item sough by the big bad. The story of the recently acquired artifact could be told by Darrett or another NPC at Ispin's wake (perhaps as the story that is rudely interrupted by Bakaris the Younger). Another layer could be to include the surrender of that artifact to the list of demands by the Dragon Army seeking to occupy Vogler, which could create further tension between the players and Bakaris Sr., when Bakaris demands the players surrender the artifact and later blames them for the siege.
This is such a help in identifying flaws of the adventure that can be fixed before I run this! I am looking forward to hearing more. These fixes do these great villains a lot more justice.
Oh yeah and stuff for adventure writers to look out for.
This is awesome, and yeah, when yo started to talk about the "final boss" or the "real threat", it reminded me on all the fixes that I had to do with ghost of saltmarsh, make Mr. Dory a menace in the begging who has an alliance with the sahuagin because they have an old ancient relic that it will release the kraken. Also changing the order of the adventures and adding two more cities that appear in the module but they talk very little of them. Adding more adventures to make it feel like it's all tied together and not just side quest. Anyway, being a DM is awesome and sometimes cames with a huge challenge
I asked for this adventure book for Christmas. I’m looking forward to reading through it with your perspectives in the back of my mind.
Loved this. I've been watching tons of reviews and you are the first to make any kind of substantive constructive critique of this adventure. I just finished reading it and have found tons of potential but a lot of rewriting needed to fully take advantage of that potential. I'll be especially curious to see how you deal with chapters 4 and 5, which I personally find have the most potential but need the most rewriting. I can't give more specifics without spoilers, so I'll leave it at that (I've posted my thoughts on the r/dragonlance reddit behind a spoiler veil if anyone is curious). Looking forward to your next vids.
I just ran the Ispin's funeral last night, so next week will be the Festival and perhaps the Battle of High Hill. And I LOVE the idea of connect the Green Shield with Kansaldi's goal!
Awesome video and great tips for the DM. I can't wait to see your live play take on this campaign.
Thank you for your hard work.
Glad I listened to this. I'm about to start the campaign for a group of 4. My initial idea now is to have Kansaldi being the cause of Greenshield's death and he fell defending against one her raids but injured her in the process. Something something she turns up to take his shield as revenge and to spit on his grave as it were something something
Many thanks for sharing the helpful review with creative ideas! i decided not to use the adventure module part off the book, and your suggestions are superb for different ways to develop. i very much liked the book for the setting, in terms of: a) simplified version of the world history and lore; and b) logical and realistic settlements, including actively used or in ruins. These aspects in my view are way better than trying to use Forgotten Realms
I'm waiting until February and the board game tie-in - both my players and myself are quite psyched to see how all that fits together (we will be gutted if it sucks, but on principle it sounds like a great way to mix up playing and gaming styles).
Great input, my digital copy will be there tomorrow morning. I hope to start my PC’s with this Wednesday night. So looking forward to it.
I know you're not running this module anymore, but I would really love to see more videos on fixing the campaign
I love the new format of the video! Keep em coming!
Cheers mate, great content, can't wait for next week.
Great ideas! I’m going to incorporate your Fire-eyes suggestion into my game, for sure.
I think every prewritten story should be changed at least a little. Just to be tailored to your groups attraction to dnd.
This... this is so true!
@@HowtobeaGreatGM, I tweaked Out of the Abyss so much, I'm sure if the players read the book now they'd barely recognise what was in there! Some of the major beats, maybe, but several bits the book almost 'threw away' became weeks of campaign stuff for my gang! The early stuff ran almost to the book (although I could never have written what they did in the prison break-out at the beginning in a million years!); however, once you see what the players become more invested/interested in, you steer/nudge the story that way. So much more fulfilling for both players and GM.
Your creativity is always helpful!
Thanks for the heads up on the missing story, just git the book today and looking as doing a long campaign to get tiamat at the end and the 9 levels. I love dragons and already have an idea for 5 dragons for the play group . It's will be interesting.
You are looking great bro!
Sweet t-shirt, Guy!
I asked for more Dragonlance content, and I have received the content. Take my 'like', as you already have my sub.
I am not sure if I am completely vibing with the “Player in the cape” character. The transitions seem a bit out of sync? Maybe I just need time to adjust. You may consider reintroducing the character every video. Similar to “Jack the NPC” from another channel. I am sure the character will find its voice in the process. Thanks for the video!
Spoken like someone who encountered Dragonlance for the first time. SotDQ is very much a prelude to very significant events that will happen a few months after the end of this campaign, and is both covered by novels and older edition campaigns. The unseen big bad is the Dragon Queen, a goddess of evil. She has built not one but multiple armies that have already conquered at least half the continent. She has so many subordinates that it's like fighting a hydra. There are multiple heads to cut off, each head is doing it's own part to serve the greater whole. That's why there are five villains, from Kensaldi to Lohezet to Belephaion to Bakaris to Soth. All these flaws are actually misclassified or misunderstood non-issues.
Wouldnt ot be better to have the death dragon goal more about increasing the armies strengh like bolstering the army having soth be constantly making the army bigger and stronger so foiling any his plans would weaken the army
I am planning to run this campaign in future and I thought this video was EXCELLENT. Very keen for more, please, and to see more detailed planning. Be careful though, WOTC might bring you on as a consultant if you are not careful ;)
That would be fun... so... I consult: drop this, this, this, this and change that that... I'm fired? Why? LOL
@@HowtobeaGreatGM well as you said in the video, not really dropping anything, just weaving things in. Keep up the good work.
Go buy the 1e and 2e stuff. Done.
J/K, not trying to grognard out. Guy, your videos are quite informative and always offering grand advice my friend 👊
Indeed, or play 3rd party modules, or a different game that doesn't require so much work. Long D&D 5e adventures always require so much fixing to salvage a proper experience.
@@SquatBenchDeadlift455 Eh, the changes he's suggesting, while honestly great, are incredibly minor. Hardly "so much fixing" to salvage a "proper experience", whatever that is.
@@jasonreid9267 Well that's good to hear! My group is planning to play it so I'm not actually watching the whole video.
There is no such thing as a perfect adventure. It is impossible. Regardless of system (yes, I'm looking at the grognards). PC agency is always going to change things. And no matter how robust a creator's approach to writing a module is, there are always going to be things that happen than cannot be accounted for.
@@HowtobeaGreatGM Very true, Sir. I mainly mean that I find plenty of illogical choices and poor writing decisions in most long 5e adventures that WotC publishes. Also, their decision to publish the books without choosing to do some of the small quality of life things that other companies and creators do. Things like lists of treasure and enemies at the start of each chapter. Proper descriptions and details of locations to make running them smooth, etc.
When I was a new DM, chapter 3 of Storm King's Thunder left me mentally scarred.
New viewer! As someone jumping into your videos, they seem really well thought out and informative, but they also seem to assume the viewer is familiar with a lot of jargon that im assumiing you've established in earlier videos.
Do you have specific primer videos one should watch before they watch your other videos?
What I would with Dragonlance as a setting (a setting built around the theme of war):
Someone has travelled back in time using THAT Device of Time Journeying and changed the timeline.
Now the original Heroes of the Lance are no longer the heroes - your game's PC's are.
Go defeat Takhisis! Or not!
I feel like that's the best option to avoid 'breaking' the established lore.
@@HowtobeaGreatGM The "established lore" allows for multiple timelines anyway so, do what works for you.
I played in a Dragon Heist campaign and when we got our Tavern, I was like "Aw yeah! I'm going to build this ting up!" and so that's exactly what I and one of the other players in the party did. We were playing "Dungeons & Spreadsheets" our GM said. That one other player and I invested money into the tavern, interviewed and hired help, dealt with guilds, competition, small sabotages, and were having a blast. Meanwhile, the other players in the party were apparently playing extra sessions or something, because they were running around following the main questline, which my business-partner-player and I didn't see the clues of, and the other players didn't share their information with us.. And, I don't mind that exactly. What miffs me though, is that one day the GM declared "Alright, that wraps up the campaign!" And the partner-player and I were both like, "What?" And the GM said, "The Dragon Heist campaign is over, the [censor] was [spoiler block]." And again we were like, "Huh?" And he said, "And you two were too busy running your tavern to even know what was going on around you!" - What miffs me is not that we didn't know what happened in the main storyline (I could careless honestly. I clearly wasn't interested in it, and even now am only very mildly curious... about the least curious a person can be without being not curious at all), no; What bothers me is that he declared the campaign was over because he had finished the material in the book. Over? OVER!? I've got a tavern to run! He continued to run D&D after that, but he started up a new campaign, I forget which, I wasn't interested, I want to run my tavern.
All I heard hear was a lot of "I didn't care" and "I want I want I want." No wonder nobody wanted to play with you. You sound like a terrible player breaking the social contract of gaming.
@@hawkname1234 Who didn't want to play with me? I'm in four groups a week right now.
@@hawkname1234 How did you get, "Nobody wanted to play with [me]" out of that? Our group only stopped meeting when the game store closed due to COVID-19, and I'm in four gaming groups a week right now.
@@hawkname1234 Oh, I see how you got that impression. Well, we started up a new campaign immediately after that one as the same group of players. That campaign was over, but our group continued until COVID-19 forced the game store to shutdown.
Wonderful points as always. I really want to know what you're doing with Ispin!! My players start this adventure tomorrow night and I'm struggling to make him meaningful to them.
The biggest mistake is not being able to roll up a Minotaur PC.
Why can’t you roll up a Minotaur PC?
Ok I'm confused about Lord Soth. How much more powerful then the party could he be? I belive that the book goes from 1 to 10 soth is a death knight sure maybe a bit more powerful given his history but still a death knight. I had a campaign set in kyrnn Andy party at level 13 destroyed a death knight. Granted he was by him self but I couldn't see Soth a major threat to even a level 15 party let alone a level 20 not with a 18 CR even with minons
I'd tweak Soth because he is bad arse. The problem is that many opponents are nerfed while characters are majorly power creeped
Lord Soth is CR 19. He flies on an undead dragon which is CR 14. I'd like to see any party of CR10s go up against him. Having said that wait till my review of the adventure where the PCs destroy his plans. Then you'll see me moan...
Great advices!
Big one (Spoiler):
The Ironclad regiment is paid off at the start, sure... But where is the money? Must be a substantial amount... but how much? And again, where is the money? I decided it was 5000 Gold and back at the Ironclad regiments camp... but still kinda unclear.
I have a problem with how to handle Lord Bakaris once he arrives in Kalaman. According to the book he takes a leading role in the city and is even commanding a taskforce. But I can't figure out how to reason this. As he might be a lord (whatever this title really means in Kalaman), he's an exiled one from the west. Enhanced by his incompetence and arrogance, he shouldn't have any political influence in Kalaman.
So, how do you make him a leader in Kalaman?
My first thought was to make him a Kalaman noble in the first place. Then you only need a reason, why he is in Vogler. Maybe there's his summer residence..... 🙂. But I'm not sure.
1.0a Must Stay!
Story is what happens between the adventures. I had a Fey-Patroned Warlock and role-played a whole conversation between him and his familiar (Mys Terri, who was often in the form of an owl) that ended with him promising to have a helmet made for the owl. Mys Terri eventually stopped showing up when summoned, objecting to being used as a scout, and he ended up summoning Mys Nomer, who was an idiot.
GMing is so difficult this day because GMs have to try to remember all the plots and plans of all these NPCs that the GMs themselves didn't create, make sure that things go according to the adventure well enough that the players can see the story as intended, but also not have the players feel like they're being railroaded as they go along on this ride like a leaf on a river, thinking their choices matter while in the back of their minds knowing they really don't (just like most video games). And on top of all that, after putting all this work in as a GM, you don't get the enjoyment of emergent play. And instead of stories being player driven, they're GM driven, and that's what most of the new players expect from games.
I ran Out of the Abyss a few years ago, which had various subplots/twisty-turny plans in it. I moulded what I needed to to suit my players, so the plots, etc., could exist but if they didn't want to chase them down, so be it. I also made much more player-driven twists: Gracklstugh was a real highlight - one of my PCs (an exiled drow monk) ended up in an arena-style 1-on-1 fight with the succubus who was trying to subvert the King, and the outcome of the showdown was Themberchaud took over the running of Gracklstugh! (Again, that was driven by decisions the players made) I always feel, so long as I twist what's in the book to suit my players and put them front and centre, they're happy!
GMing modules is a skill, but there are lots of ways to do it efficiently and produce a great game. You're over-gereralizing and assuming your experience is universal. It's not. Player choices can and do matter in modules and many player groups have taken modules off the rails. Then the consequences are the consequences. There is just as much enjoyment from emergent play and players driving the story. The ONLY thing that's different is whether the GM wrote the plot and did all the work or somebody else did some of the work.
An experienced GM should know this. If you are a newer player, I suggest trying it out. Gm have been running modules successfully for literally half a century.
❤
It's time to talk about the fireside chat
I’m just plain fine trying to fix WOTC’s adventures after paying a premium for them. Better systems and adventures out there.
Please provide examples so we can all learn!
Have you run either Against the Cult of the Reptile God or compared Ghosts of Saltmarsh and its original scenarios?
I've GMed a metric cr#p ton of different TTRPG systems - EVERY PRE WRITTEN adventure for any game you can think of has issues/adjusting that is necessary. Thinking that WotC has a monopoly on adventures that need fixing is naive at best.
@@simonfernandes6809 There is adjusting to your own table and style, then there is fixing. WotC is hot garbage right now. Keep on defending them if you want.
@@jasonmountain4643 Who said I'm defending WotC? I'm saying every RPG has issues with adventures - including WotC. Your bias is obvious - and apparently your comprehension is suspect too.
Here is how you fix 5e Dragonlance. Throw it away and do a case by case conversion of the original if you want to run it in 5e.
Why? That seems like a lot of effort. I've never seen the original material - what makes it better? I am really curious.
From what I recall heroes reunite with no idea an invasion is going on.
Cue surprise attack they escape and eventually discover the princess has a staff of healing that eventually leads her to become the first cleric of one of the Good god's.
Meaning no healing spells barring potions, that staff and the bad guys having clerics of Takhisis.
And as for the creation of the Draconians. .oh boy!
The problem is, if I ran that, several of my players would know where all the major plot points/beats would be, 'cos they've read them too! This is a whole new Dragonlance adventure that everyone can get invested in, 'cos none of us have seen it before.
@@stevenallison3860 I was wondering what if an airship crash lands near the village and the PCs investigate learn of the invasion from a Solamnia Knight aboard who was sent to seek reinforcements (like Sturm Brighblade for example).
The village is attacked and the knight implores the PCs to carry the message he was carrying to a nearby fort as he attempts to launch his airship to give the village time to escape?
Nah. This is grognard gatekeeping BS. This is a whole different story. There are a ton of issues with retreading the OG DragonLance modules, beginning with the fact that they're so famous that many people already know the plot.
I thought this was a GOOD product?! Fixing holes isn't generally something one has to do with a GOOD product!!!
It is a good product. I can't fix holes if I don't know what needs fixing. As a base I'll only be changing minor things to make it BETTER. The majority of it is solid stuff. As I said: it takes the grunt work out of prepping not all the work :)
Do you think the only good books are ones that can't be critiqued?
@@hawkname1234 Most certainly not. There is nothing that cannot or should not be critiqued. We must critique with contribution (or suggestions or references) otherwise we're just complaining.
Perfect take! 👌
My man, I hate to say this- but the most fun I've ever had with D&D has been with 5th edition over the last few years...
...because this is the first time I've avoided ALL of their campaign books. Railroading quests, eye-rolling 'purse puppy' NPC's, and most of it seems like it was written for a Care Bears cartoon for girls. It's just absolutely awful and every respectable GM I know has not only refused to use them, but *prohibited them from being brought to their table* and I respect this.
Here's hoping Hasbro/WotC does some housekeeping. Until then, I'll be playing other games that aren't D&D.