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Sorry, but I feel any time the Army says the word 'Future' in a design bid, the project is doomed to endless budget expansions and eventual cancellation. This is what... The 3rd or 4th 'Future' rifle project? The ghosts of the poor G11 and XM8 are still haunting around... Meanwhile, the Marines simply cheat by announcing the HK416 as a SAW replacement, before saying everyone is an automatic rifleman now!
Task & Purpose i don’t want to be a killjoy, but what about all the other countries still developing new rifles in 5.56 NATO? Also who the hell calls the M240 “Lima”
@@OperatorAegea Here's a thought. The breach isn't next to the firing chamber, and the freaking thing moves the empty plastic case for the "caseless" round down, then forward before it gets to the breach. What happens if it gets stuck inside the gun? With regular guns, you can just pull the charging handle to get at it because there's this big hole where you can get to the firing chamber from.
As my drill instructors would have said, "You had better eat some cotton and Nickel/Cadmium, cause you're gonna need to shit some q-tips and a new battery real quick!"
"Welcome everybody to forgotten weapons, i'm Ian and today we are here at the Rock Island Auction taking a look at their March 2031 catalogue, specifically this very mechanically interesting Textron Industries 6.8mm rifle
Unfortunately, for Textron they didn't learn from history and proceeded with building the engineers wet dream which is why this rifle never made it to production.
Although the US Army passed on the weapon, the French Army adopted it as a replacement for the FAMAS in 2023 before discovering that the plastic rounds would melt in the barrel after around a hundred rounds had been fired, completely disabling the weapon...
@Trickywoo I wasn't a grunt I installed setup calibrated and took down portable radar sets I was out past the wire only once or twice but I did have to spend some nights out on these op's most of the time nothing happened a few times that it did I was real glad I had the extra ammo and I had taken the time to cite my 16 in. The first time being an FNG my rifle wasn't sighted in that night was frustrating and terrifying at the same time
Army infantry oh it broke Army infantry to many parts and no supply Army infantry yep someone through me the back up m16 This is what happened to Germany in ww2 there weaponry was to complicated and cost was crazy. Keep weapon simple as possible less parts easy to fix textron won't win unless he's related to one the generals
logan that’s exactly what I was wondering! Do they know how the army beats up shit? There is no way an electric trigger is infantry proof. Just not gonna happen.
Textron Designer(s): "This would be a good Fortnite gun." Sig Sauer Designer(s): "We've actually fought in wars, so..." General Dynamics: "We build fighter jets and submarines. Why not design a gun the same way?"
i initially had that thought too, but sometimes it can be good to have a new kid on the block. every company deserves a chance to at least be tested. you'll never know until you try
I wanna see the most complicated one win. The world would be a better place if you needed a College Degree to be a grunt. It'd give these kids with their stupid Liberal Arts & Gender Studies Degrees an actual job to aspire to.
Big Hosafat I mean, they’re the options for the military to test then choose from, I fail to see how allowing the company to try making a weapon they feel would work well is going to cost anyone their life
Big Hosafat But his comment was about not immediately dismissing one company as a manufacturer just because they predominantly build something else, even if you’ll most likely choose the option of a different company. Obviously the use of a weapon in combat will result in loss of lives, but that has nothing to do with either his comment nor the production of the weapon. Not to mention if the weapon works poorly the government would choose a different weapon from one of the other choices? So again, no, if the weapon works poorly it wouldn’t “cost double” the lives, because it wouldn’t be implemented
Imagine being in the middle of firefight, and then your rifle stop shooting after 10 rounds because you haven't bought monthly subscription from Textron.
Actually the contract goes to the company with executives who look at the government's wish list and says: "no problem" while his engineering department are having a collective heart attack.
@Nospam Spamisham Yea all of those total failures. The occupation of Germany and Japan after WWII for example. And remember that the US military had a plan for a decisive defeat of the Taliban. Like the surge that ended the war in Iraq - they spent years preparing to ensure that all the pieces were in place. Bush listened to his generals and the surge in Iraq succeeded. Obama ignored his generals and listened to Biden so the surge in Afghanistan went off with less than half the number of soldiers at the plan called for. And the media are saying that it's the military who failed in Afghanistan (or try to blame Bush).
@@colincampbell767 Are you really comparing the surrender and reconstruction of Japan and Germany to the occupation in Iraq and Afghanistan? There was virtually no insurgency in Germany or Japan. And do you really think the 2007 surge in Iraq lead to the "end" of the Iraq war 4 years later in 2011? The only reason we left was because public pressure to bring troops home was too much, but there was still enough support for the "good war" in Afghanistan. Conflict in Iraq wasn't over in Iraq any more than it was in Afghanistan and we ended up going back less than 3 years later anyway.
SIG Sauer will win: - Troops dont have to be retrained as the system used is similar to the current one - Ammunition casing is made of metal, which secondary function is to get the heat out of the weapon - Increasing design complexity leads to issues in the field, so SIG Sauer using the tried and proven approach will make the soldiers happy - I guess their weapons will also cost less than a Textron (think about who has the special manufacturing tools and machines to make their special ammunition)
Textron partnered with Winchester to make the ammunition so that shouldn't be an issue. I do think the design is a bit much for the army though. That said, I have a feeling the Textron design team probably knows it's a moonshot design and just wants to push the fold a bit.
@@instars326 Textron and AAI have been working on that system (caseless ammunition, cased telescopic ammunition and that vertically moving cartridge chamber) for a very long time now, the better part of a decade with the LSAT and other prototype rifles firing caseless and cased telescopic ammunition, which have culminated into what you see here. The US Govt has been funding its R&D for quite some time.
@@Leo-vr3bg Quite a few countries are using bullpups these days. Britain, France, Austria, China, Russia experimented with bullpups, but we can't be surprised they didn't do anything with it. After all, this is the country that still uses the Makarov. I know there are more I'm forgetting, and the list continues to grow. I'm not a soldier, or a gun designer, but there wouldn't be an ever growing list of countries adopting them unless there was a good reason for it
@rob jonson Jesus fucking Christ, he was just asking why you felt the need to comment multiple times instead of putting it all in one comment. You don't need to rage so hard.
"No army in the history of man has ever had problems deploying, maintaining or using electronic equipment in the field."* *Sample size of study only include the Swiss guards, The Roman Legions and the Icelandic navy. The Roman E-Meks never had a singel ticket in the field!
Imagine what people thought of replacing wood with plastics at the start. Tech advance is so important just look at the Chinese getting destroyed in their junks against steam powered British ships during the opium wars. A few thousand soldiers were able to defeat an empire with millions because of better tech. That is the purpose of doing this type of research to try and be the first with new tech.
@@domnoya4130 that advantage becomes much more evident in places other than infantry small-arms, like naval surface warfare. Two semi-automatic rifles with 30 round magazines that fire quickly and accurately are both in the same ballpark of deadliness, an HK416 is objectively a much nicer and more technologically advanced gun than an old Chinese Type 56, but it doesn't enjoy anything like the advantage that a steamship does over a sailship, or a fighter jet over a turboprop, or any similar example of complete technological superiority. When a jet meets a turboprop in a dogfight, the jet wins, when a composite-armor main-battle tank meets a cast armor medium tank in an armored duel, the MBT wins, when a guy with a fancy modern kitted out rifle meets a guy with an aging but reliable rifle in a gunfight, the guy who's better at gunfighting wins. What matters the most for an infantry weapon is reliability and manageability in combat, you want a weapon that almost never breaks down even in rough battlefield conditions, that's easy to fix when it does, and that can be efficiently reloaded and otherwise manipulated in CQB, odd firing positions, behind cover, while prone, etc. A big part of all of that is weight, but it isn't the end-all-be-all. If you have all that, then you want a weapon with sufficient capacity, range, energy, accuracy, terminal ballistics ("stopping power "), and effective fire rate to manage the entire spectrum of realistic infantry battlefield threats, from CQB to 500yd gunfights in open spaces, through brush and other light barriers, etc. It's here that a 6.8mm has obvious advantages over a 5.56mm, but the 5.56mm still absolutely works. Many, many people have been killed very dead through a bush or other light barrier at some distance from a 5.56mm weapon, we're taking about percentage improvements, not night and day differences. The real technological breakthrough is the small arms fire control system the Army is researching, that's a game changer, especially for the machine guns, but also for the rifles (and perhaps especially for marksman and sniper rifles). Weight-reducing caseless ammo isn't really a game-changer in a combat situation, especially if it comes at the expense of reliability and ease of field repair and maintenance. A computerized optic that can aim your gun for you at distant targets? Way more so. The fire control system, though, could conceivably be fitted on existing 5.56mm weapons once it reaches an operational state.
@@freedomsglory1 Have you ever retrieved brass casings after a battalion of soldiers ran through a range? Makes you wish that brass was magnetic and you had huge magnetic with you.
The same reason union soldiers used breach loaded carbines instead of lever-action in the civil war. Congress argued the increased rate of rife would increase ammunition costs by unacceptable margin. Nevermind the men found dead in the middle of reloading.
@@jaredbowman7764 The US was broke back then, like super broke. The North had just started to industrialize a few decades earlier. The war was cutting into so many other projects that there may have been legitimate fears that a weapon system like that would bankrupt the Union. You're talking about ordering hundreds of thousands of new rifles, bullets and then having to ship them out to your armies overnight. It wasnt economical from a logistical standpoint.
@@colincampbell767 They are also used in some car engines for fuel injectors. (The high end model vehicles, not the cheap ones, cuz that stuff is expensive.)
@@ralphmuccilli4798 Because it’s cheap and reliable for it’s price. Many militaries are replacing their AKs with AR-15s instead of 5.56 AKs with mag adapters.
@@cortex8239 Of course russia still keeps their AKs because of political and logistical reasons. Even if they could get their hands on a 5.45x39 or 7.62x39 AR, they won’t adopt it because political reasons.
Charles Yuditsky disposable magazines are always considered disposable right up until the moment someone’s about to throw one away, then their Plt CO says “hold on, we could use that again
once the battery dies that electrically provides power to this piece of garbage, are our enemies going to stop shooting at us while we perform a combat battery change? Plastic ammo and powered by batteries...sounds like a recipe for disaster.
@@jeffburnham6611 Hey its just like the M-16 though eh they dont give a fuck send them out let some poor saps in a foxhole figure out and then they will fix it good. Saves on testing time dont you know?
"In case of emergency, please see manual and call our 1-800 tech help hotline." *dials 1-800 and opens manual* First page: 'Fuck you.' All other pages blank. 1-800: "Hello sir, you have reached our help hotline. Fuck you. Good bye."
Yeh XD The first time I heard of the 6.8 round was on future weapons With the LWRC PSD A BEAUTIFUL RIFLE . IT WAS NOT ADOBTED BACK THEN that was years ago
You do realize these guns get tested a fuck ton before they put them out? and for the army to be looking into It, it must have a pretty good look on it..
Just wait till one of those plastic based casings gets stuck or melts. Instant horrific weapon jam and cleaning nightmare. The feeding on the first one also makes it basically impossible to do corrective action on a jammed weapon since the round being loaded and the round being ejected aren't accessible.
*in a sudden turn of events, america scraps all ideas and decides to adopt the Kar98k but they replace the wood with polymers and chamber it in .45 acp.*
In a sudden turn of events, the modernized Kar98k actually gets chambered with .50 ammo to increase firepower. We don't know how they fit it in there but they did.
Sounds like the fallout universe, where you can literally take what looks like a left-handed (go figure) Remington Mod 700 and just shove a .50 in there :P
Textron ammo looks too much like a black crayon. May not end up so well for the Marine. Or the ammo supply depending on how many Marines it takes to realize that it's not edible.
If the enemy isn't hiding behind shit...problem is, 1st guy you drop, his comrades...hide behind shit. A combat medic named Zimmerman (corroborated by Army testing/stats from all post-2002 wars corroborating him) has written valuable notes, but any fool knows 62gr is basically a VARMINTING round with barely enough energy at 200yards to frag, yaw, or fishtail (with hollow-nose-in-FMJ, similar to Russian 5.45, aka "SOST Mk219") and 68-70gr is what Zimmerman recommends (expensive unless ya hand-load. Yes, I do, I'm a weapons engineer, not a mere armorer or ammosmith, and that's why I shoot Grendel: best cost-vs-performance for those of us with lots of 7.62x39 brass, knowing how to anneal it after reshaping it into 6.5G, etc). *_All they need is to replace 6.8SPC & Grendel with a 6x6.8 (6.0mm in the 6.8's brass), so they ONLY replace bolts/barrels as they wear out for most SOCOM troops to carry the upgraded ammo at first, then Recon 775, then the cannon-fodder, I meant...lower scoring infantrymen. :-) Doesn't overheat barrels like 224 Valk, and shoots flatter than ANY other AR15-compatible ammo hat has improved (25% more than 5.56) knockdown-energy (goes thru WALLS/WINDSHIELDS/ETC better, gives "quick-kill" in CQB where the enemy's "minute of man" is basically ANYWHERE he randomly shoots at during his throes-of-death, AND THIS WAS ARMY'S WORST LOSSES OF SOCOM MEN (i.e. those with best investment in training/equipment) THAT NECESSITATE AN UPGRADE: they put 3, 4, or more 5.56's into sandal-wearing goat herders and STILL got killed by the jihadi who was dying but didn't have a "lights out" HYDRAULIC SHOCK killshot because 5.56 is so weak that even inside of 50yards, on a MOVING target, our best guys need SEVERAL rounds into enemies' torsos because he's BLEEDING out instead of dying FAST from hyd shock all too many of the times, Army forensics showed.), with the better bolt-head strength & higher ammo-capacity of 6.8 over Grendel's._*
If the enemy isn't hiding behind shit...problem is, 1st guy you drop, his comrades...hide behind shit. A combat medic named Zimmerman (corroborated by Army testing/stats from all post-2002 wars corroborating him) has written valuable notes, but any fool knows 62gr is basically a VARMINTING round with barely enough energy at 200yards to frag, yaw, or fishtail (with hollow-nose-in-FMJ, similar to Russian 5.45, aka "SOST Mk219") and 68-70gr is what Zimmerman recommends (expensive unless ya hand-load. Yes, I do, I'm a weapons engineer, not a mere armorer or ammosmith, and that's why I shoot Grendel: best cost-vs-performance for those of us with lots of 7.62x39 brass, knowing how to anneal it after reshaping it into 6.5G, etc). *_All they need is to replace 6.8SPC & Grendel with a 6x6.8 (6.0mm in the 6.8's brass), so they ONLY replace bolts/barrels as they wear out for most SOCOM troops to carry the upgraded ammo at first, then Recon 775, then the cannon-fodder, I meant...lower scoring infantrymen. :-) Doesn't overheat barrels like 224 Valk, and shoots flatter than ANY other AR15-compatible ammo hat has improved (25% more than 5.56) knockdown-energy (goes thru WALLS/WINDSHIELDS/ETC better, gives "quick-kill" in CQB where the enemy's "minute of man" is basically ANYWHERE he randomly shoots at during his throes-of-death, AND THIS WAS ARMY'S WORST LOSSES OF SOCOM MEN (i.e. those with best investment in training/equipment) THAT NECESSITATE AN UPGRADE: they put 3, 4, or more 5.56's into sandal-wearing goat herders and STILL got killed by the jihadi who was dying but didn't have a "lights out" HYDRAULIC SHOCK killshot because 5.56 is so weak that even inside of 50yards, on a MOVING target, our best guys need SEVERAL rounds into enemies' torsos because he's BLEEDING out instead of dying FAST from hyd shock all too many of the times, Army forensics showed.), with the better bolt-head strength & higher ammo-capacity of 6.8 over Grendel's._*
If the enemy isn't hiding behind shit...problem is, 1st guy you drop, his comrades...hide behind shit. A combat medic named Zimmerman (corroborated by Army testing/stats from all post-2002 wars corroborating him) has written valuable notes, but any fool knows 62gr is basically a VARMINTING round with barely enough energy at 200yards to frag, yaw, or fishtail (with hollow-nose-in-FMJ, similar to Russian 5.45, aka "SOST Mk219") and 68-70gr is what Zimmerman recommends (expensive unless ya hand-load. Yes, I do, I'm a weapons engineer, not a mere armorer or ammosmith, and that's why I shoot Grendel: best cost-vs-performance for those of us with lots of 7.62x39 brass, knowing how to anneal it after reshaping it into 6.5G, etc). *_All they need is to replace 6.8SPC & Grendel with a 6x6.8 (6.0mm in the 6.8's brass), so they ONLY replace bolts/barrels as they wear out for most SOCOM troops to carry the upgraded ammo at first, then Recon 775, then the cannon-fodder, I meant...lower scoring infantrymen. :-) Doesn't overheat barrels like 224 Valk, and shoots flatter than ANY other AR15-compatible ammo hat has improved (25% more than 5.56) knockdown-energy (goes thru WALLS/WINDSHIELDS/ETC better, gives "quick-kill" in CQB where the enemy's "minute of man" is basically ANYWHERE he randomly shoots at during his throes-of-death, AND THIS WAS ARMY'S WORST LOSSES OF SOCOM MEN (i.e. those with best investment in training/equipment) THAT NECESSITATE AN UPGRADE: they put 3, 4, or more 5.56's into sandal-wearing goat herders and STILL got killed by the jihadi who was dying but didn't have a "lights out" HYDRAULIC SHOCK killshot because 5.56 is so weak that even inside of 50yards, on a MOVING target, our best guys need SEVERAL rounds into enemies' torsos because he's BLEEDING out instead of dying FAST from hyd shock all too many of the times, Army forensics showed.), with the better bolt-head strength & higher ammo-capacity of 6.8 over Grendel's._*
In 14 years in the Army, my M4 never took a crap on me. Only issues I’ve ever had were due to magazines. Saying that, as a Squad/team leader, I’ve seen numerous M4s go down as a result of not conducting proper PMCS or armorer level maintenance.
I've never been in the military but I've owned firearms for over 40 years. Therefore I can speak freely about military weapons and not risk undermining the efforts or morale of our troops who can, will and maybe should ignore me. The M4: the effectiveness/reliability of the round, the safety and the mag release are all down-right dangerous. This divorce has been a long time coming.
@@Nnip9 sadly reality of conflict use is way different than civillian. Imagine armored vehicle with hundreds of kilos of explosives driving in a conflict zone towards guys with anti-armor and you're in it. Is it safe? Absolutrly not. It is unavoidable.
I've actually seen more AKs malfunction than I have M4s, and I spent 8 years (3 combat deployments to Iraq, as an infantryman) in the Army. The M4 is a perfectly good rifle. The new M855A1 ammo is also quite devastating. My biggest fear is all the new high-speed gadgets mean that many more things that can go wrong. Look what happened when the M16 was first fielded, and now imagine what could happen with something many times more complicated.
@@BlAcKSaDooo That's the Mg42 not the mg3, mg3's the new slow firerate 7.62×31mm gun used by the german Bundheswehr! th-cam.com/video/rbHqwBmfR9g/w-d-xo.html
@@lepmuhangpa The MG3 has a fire rate of 1200 rpm (according to google) wich is still pretty fast. MG74 has around 800 rpm could it be possile you have mistaken those 2?
Hey remember when the US army shafted the FN FAL (T48) for M14 (T44)? Or when they dismissed the XCR just because they didn't have a blank firing adapter? It's never about the performance of the gun, man.
I also choose SIG because it is not complex and use conventional design (which faster to reload and more precise trigger in general, useful for frontline combat). But I like bullpups to use as DMR (which prioritize accuracy over reload speed).
4 ปีที่แล้ว +1476
old people: M14! Me: M4! These companies: weird ass gun i dont understand*
which is the whole reason military went from 7.62 to 5.56, now they want to up the power but if they can save weight at the same time its a win-win. But i doubt the "caseless" designs will win, too many extra parts = reliability issues.
It hinges open like an AR. It's actually simpler to disassemble than messing with the cotter pin, firing pin, and cam pin of an AR just to get the bolt separated from the carrier.
The Sig is the worst of the bunch and doesn't make any real improvements over the M4. Sig also completely bumbled the M17 release, which they shouldn't have won anyways.
It’s not just the reload. Bullpup, is great in terms of having a compact rifle with a full length barrel, but they also typically have a very long length of pull. Think of a modern soldier decked out in body armor. Ideally, they should have a rifle with a short stock that shoulders quickly and easily. A bullpup does not fulfill this role very well. Also, not all are ambidextrous. Some you can only shoot right handed and if for some reason, like shooting around corners, you wanted to switch hands, others cannot accommodate that and will eject the brass in your face. I’m not against bullpups, but the reality is they deliver serious advantages at serious costs.
1:20 Soldier in combat: "Has anyone seen my rifle charger?" Or Soldier 1: "Oh no! I dropped my rifle in a puddle of water!" Soldier 2: "Relax, we'll put it in a bag of rice when we get back to base."
,,Yeah right here, gimm-... Wait. That's not the rifle charger, that's the charger for my smartphone! No wonder why the other one wouldn't fit into the socket! Fuck!"
Ex uk military, the bull pop is great when your lying on the ground to aim . It is a nightmare to fire in pretty much any other position as the weight you place on the barrel to move it will have virtually no resistance meaning your basic body movements will effect the shot . With a standard rifle that little extra weight of the housing does negate a lot of this affect which in turn makes it easier to aim when you haven't got a fully built up position .
Used the AUG, in the form of the Austeyr 88. Never had any problems in any position, except shooting offhand. Gotta get your face back, can't see through the scope properly.
The only people that like the Textron and think it's not too complicated are the same people who would never join the infantry. Source: engineering enlistee.
I wish it weren't, 'cause I really like the ammo and feeding mechanism, but yeah, that shit is gonna wreck every private's day trying to clean that/ break it down.
It's definitely more complicated than an M4 and even its competition. But would field stripping it really be any more complex than a 249 or 240? Sorry, I'm a medic and haven't messed with crew serves too much in recent years, but I could imagine that cleaning this could be just a simple/complex as them. Idk, H&K and Winchester are making this with Textron and I'd love to see more video of it.
@@thomasbrand2650 y'know, I don't think it's more complicated than those. However, It looks like there might be an issue where the new round is used to push the casing out. It looks like it isn't dependent on the recoil and relies on something else entirely to chamber the next round and push the new round up to be fired/ aligned with the barrel. It could be a mechanical lock, like a bolt catch, but the fact that it has that vertical movement separate from the rest of the action kinda terrifies me about it. Which sucks, because I'm kind of a gear-do and love that new age shit. Me and my shame will see ourselves out.
The Textron's weird design appears to be so that it can have proper obturation with a cylindrical, telescoped cartridge with no neck or shoulder. That moving chamber thing is very complex and in some ways reminiscent of the G11's rotating chamber. This is one of the main problems with exotic ammunition ideas; feeding them reliably. That mechanism looks like a total disaster in the making. The General Dynamics RM277 appears to have a moving barrel and be recoil-operated, but that's not all. That weird little can on the muzzle is ported on the front. It's not a brake or a silencer of any kind. It's a muzzle booster to force the barrel backward and help the recoil action cycle. That's what they mean by "gas and recoil operated". Literally century-old WWI technology, like a Vickers Gun. A muzzle booster on a recoil-operated firearm. Weird.
My prediction: DoD will spend millions, constantly change specs (depending on which former colonel turned lobbyist spoke to them last), have at least 50 Congressmen try to influence the process (depending on which former general turned lobbyist promises to build it in their district), end up deciding on an incremental change to the M4 design, but somehow all 3 companies will profit from not getting the contract.
Duh you expect the DoD to actually make this an efficient process? Gotta think about them poor lobbyist that need to make as much profit as possible after paying off all them Politicians and Generals along with paying themselves.
i personally have never owned or operated a bull pup weapon system, but this is the first time ive ever heard someone list some very notable downsides of them. Nice video!
I think that "former veteran" would parse to "active duty". Which is apparently not what he is. I suspect he mis-spoke and didn't catch the error until the video posted.
I've heard this before it means that you were a member of the US Military(Veteran), then requested from the DoD that you no longer wanted to be a "Veteran", hence you are reclassified as a "former Veteran"! :)
Meanwhile in Russia: "Comrades, let me introduce you to the AK-20. Totally not the same rifle we have had for 71 year's just chambered in a better version of what ever the western pigs have!"
CR BZ Too heavy/expensive/large; plus we already have those. Sure, the platform could be updated, but the .338 is a nice compromise. I’m sure the .50 BMG will still have it’s used alongside these (if they are ever implemented)
yes @fried rice we need to remove some flesh before this human right is restored to the people (survivors) -> dont kill them send them to the re-education camps and let them die of old age after a long life of productivity for the common good. its what they wanted after all were just helping them achieve their own goals.
Here we are nearly 3 years later and the Army finally settled on the SIG bid. I do think that the Textron and GD bids were good but I can see the merits in the SIG. This has gotten farther than other attempts to replace the M16/M4 so this looks more promising. Likely will end up first for SF, then frontline troops, and then trickle their way down from the Frontline all the way to the National Guard and Boot camp. It will probably be a while before they end up in wide scale use and probably decades later when(if it does) become widely used across NATO.
I don't see outside the change of ammunition to the 6.8 why even get the SIG. Seems the same to me. I would've picked the GD design personally as Bullpups have the physical advantage of the ability to be shorter or even longer if the thing needs be. As someone who doesn't spend years with an m4 a bullpup feels better to shoot and reloading doesn't bother me. Bullpups feel better for me to hold and aim as the weight is closer to the shoulder as well. As for ammunition the other two also looked interesting. Can't wait to see the civilian version of the other two.
"Hi, I'm Ian McCollum and today were looking at 3 weapons from U.S. military that came from a program much like the ACR program, but was far more ambitious..."
The military has been trying to find a replacement for the M4 for decades. Probably won't happen this time around due to ammunition commonality amongst NATO nations.
Big issue is that the other nations we might be fighting (Russia, China and probably Iran) all have, or will probably develop body armor. The 5.56 mm won't be able to penetrate armor at range, and with new optics being used by us and other nations, and we'll probably be fighting at longer ranges, which is another problem for 5.56 mm weapons. Right now we're a generation ahead of the other super-powers of the world in optics. The army is probably ready to leap up with weapons and ammo this time as well.
Dude 5.56 has great range. Most organized militaries use a smaller round. As for the 762 39 it has way less range than m4. As for body armor makes sence to go around it not through it
@@Castragroup Most people don't have the luxury to actively aim for non body armor parts on a battlefield. It's called shooting center mass for a reason lol
Well, it is about that time to waste a few tens of millions of dollars on a weapon to replace the M16 series. I would say that we're getting close to making the technical leap to something else, and these three will lay the ground work for what comes next. If nothing else I'd bet that one of the ammunition types will be used in the replacement, earlier attempts to replace the M16 flirted with caseless cartridges as well as plastic cases but the technology was way to immature, from what I've read the technology has finally matured enough that it might be ready for general hard use.
@@robertharper3754 The ACR trial conclusions were that the Caseless and Polymer Cased ammo had proven their viability for battlefield use. The main (and essentially only) requirement for adoption of a new gun at the time was that it needed a basically impossible 100% hit probability increase over the M16, considering the base hit probability for the M16 was based on flawed data that gave the idea it was much worse than it really was.
Probably would given how hard it is to introduce a new weapon to the Soldiers anyway also the M4 has proven pretty reliable over the years wouldn't be surprised if they decide to keep it another 10 years
I feel like the Sig Sauer bid is the best option, the weapons are still light, more powerful ammunition and it’s not so complicated that it’ll stop working easily
Redesign the caseless ammo with a plastic housing like the Textron, to help with the fragileness. But they would need to engineer a ejection for the plastic casings because the g11 was completely caseless
@@andrewjb05051998 The G11 did have a simple ejection to clear miss fires. They would eject straight down. It was unused during normal operation though maybe it let some hot air out.
This account name is completely Unoriginal ceaseless ammo has been the future since I first got in in 2002😂. Case less doesn’t look practical on a carbine that has a limited sized magazine. I can see it working for belt fed like I remember reading about so many years ago where magazines are boxes but they don’t work for Belt fed because the heat would melt the round or cook them off. He said it won’t melt but unless those rounds are Teflon I don’t really see it not melting or getting soft in heat.
I’m betting on the Sig. considering how the Army works and selects new weapons the Sig being a traditional setup without electronics it’s most likely to be adopted
@@Thegaming_husky , Yeah , You are right. SIG SAUER will more than likely be The United States Marine Corps and United States Army's, supplier of 🔥 power. Our Gun Guys already have the M17 Pistol, which replaced the Beretta M9. 🇺🇸🗽🦅🔫⚔️
2:44 "I've seen Joe destroy about everything you can think of with a back of a Stryker ramp..." True words. Fun little accident during my service time: When I was a conscript in FDF during my NCO course one guy left his RK-62 rest on Sisu SA-150 tire and forgot it there for the field chow. After everyone had their chow the drivers left and one drove over the forgotten weapon. The weapon didn't take any damage. Barrel was still straight, sights were in place and nothing was fractured nor broken. It worked perfectly during next range day.
The only other ceaseless gun I can think of is the Kraut Space Magic™, and that had a ton of moving parts. What caseless guns decrease the number of moving parts used?
@Brett Mcclain Textron's design is not caseless -- it's a polymer cased telescoped design. The "telescoped" part refers to the projectile being entirely inside the casing. If there had been no polymer casing, it would be called a caseless telescoped design.
@@ecleveland1 Bruh they can just convert them to semi-auto and gain a significant profit. LARPers will buy that shit without second thought. Besides, Colt is already selling semi-auto M4 and M16 clones.
kafoop Would be cool if they did make an exception to make back some of the money on them. But who knows maybe they’ll destroy them...maybe sell them to an enemy. Anything goes for the government lol
@@ecleveland1 They certainly wouldn't destroy all those surplus rifles. If they weren't converted over to semi-auto and sold to the public, they would definitely be sold to our allies.
Anyone who has any experience with the electronics industry is all too aware of how notoriously unreliable they are. The whole "less moving parts = better reliability" thing completely falls apart when those parts are replaced by electronics. It might sound like they are reducing mechanical complexity, which they might be doing, but the electronics they are replacing them with are many times more complex.
Textron has too many moving parts; more chances fore something to go wrong. I admit I’m biased (love my P365) but I think the SIG is gonna win this one.
Nyet! Rifle is fine! But tbh, I wonder how the Textron made it to the last three. Will they add a diploma in mechanical engineering to the enlistment requirements?
@@zachhenderson4475 Which explains why the FN_FAL lasted longer in service in other countries. Having shot the M1A I can't say its a bad rifle but I can say its over priced....Then again after owning a FN-FAL I'm a bit biased and yes, she shoots quite well..Way out there.
the cheapest and most easy to manufacture. Infanterie and and guns are both expendable and mass manufacture goods. In case of a big war you want to spit both out as fast as possible and as cheap as possible.
@@OscarSchneegans lol there already is radiation left over from the fights anyone near the warzone is gonna have birth defects and probably become infertile
@@MegamanTheSecond You know the effects of radiation are exaggerated in those cases tho when it comes to fertility. There are many people who survived Chernobyl, for example, who still went on to have children. Now the other long term effects, such as cancer, are a bit of a different story...
I think the Textron bid is best in isolation, the ammo weight savings and the way it deals with the casings is very interesting. General dynamics seems like it won't win based on rifle alone but it's worth seeing how polymer ammo will deal with heat. The Sig bid is probably the best from a logistical standpoint. The only real difference in production will be the type for making any new cartridge and they even have similarly the casings already for it from the 7.62 cartridges as it's a ×51mm cartridge and so much like the 5.7×28mm it's a fairly simple switch for the cartridges.
The good thing is that they will break rather quickly when they don't get maintained well. Unlike the millions of AKs that are being used since the 60s.
Okay a few points about the General Dynamics entrants. First the ammo was developed by True Velocity and has a steel base just like the Sig Sauer version does. They can get away with a polymer for the rest of it because they use a 20 inch barrel. That means that they can use less powder to result in a higher velocity than the Sig Sauers 13 inch barrel(2850 fps Sig Sauer, 3100 fps G.D.). Third they warrantee the suppressor for the lifetime of the barrel, pretty is as pretty does. Fourth is about the SAW replacement. They are essentially going back to the Grand and BAR combo of WWII, a better semi auto rifle plus a squad automatic rifle with a limited auto fire capability using the same ammo as the rifle. Currently what the Marines are doing with their HK 27 are doing just that. Add the Sig Sauer sight if the proposed General Dynamics sight is inferior.
Please remember to like and subscribe if you enjoyed the video! Check out our new video "Infantry History and Tactics" th-cam.com/video/vRjvBhiJwj8/w-d-xo.html thanks for watching!
Sorry, but I feel any time the Army says the word 'Future' in a design bid, the project is doomed to endless budget expansions and eventual cancellation. This is what... The 3rd or 4th 'Future' rifle project? The ghosts of the poor G11 and XM8 are still haunting around...
Meanwhile, the Marines simply cheat by announcing the HK416 as a SAW replacement, before saying everyone is an automatic rifleman now!
Task & Purpose i don’t want to be a killjoy, but what about all the other countries still developing new rifles in 5.56 NATO?
Also who the hell calls the M240 “Lima”
@@michelangelangelo7091 Some thought, this kinda fucks NATO standardization
More parts equals more work
your not a "former" veteran, just a veteran. Love you
The Sig Sauer bid makes the most sense. So they probably won't go with that
Lol
xD
😂
exactly my first thought
Oh not I think they will. Sig SAUER is pretty good at underbidding and you know how the Military loves low bid
i can see the textron rifle in a forgotten weapons video in 10 years time.
crob battchit , Ikr. It will reside right alongside the g11
Ares AIWS. The design is from 1987
They lost me at caseless ammo.
It's probably going to have reliability issues with all the moving parts
@@OperatorAegea Here's a thought. The breach isn't next to the firing chamber, and the freaking thing moves the empty plastic case for the "caseless" round down, then forward before it gets to the breach. What happens if it gets stuck inside the gun? With regular guns, you can just pull the charging handle to get at it because there's this big hole where you can get to the firing chamber from.
Basic training will go from "Sarge, I forgot my magazine" to "Sarge I ran out of q-tips and forgot to put my rifle on the charger last night"
Pretty Cool tho
As my drill instructors would have said, "You had better eat some cotton and Nickel/Cadmium, cause you're gonna need to shit some q-tips and a new battery real quick!"
where do i put the doohickey with the digeridoo?
Lol!
"Welcome everybody to forgotten weapons, i'm Ian and today we are here at the Rock Island Auction taking a look at their March 2031 catalogue, specifically this very mechanically interesting Textron Industries 6.8mm rifle
So, a little backstory about this peculiar weapon.
@@mdgiashuddinkhan7891 i love how i can hear all of this in Ian's voice so clearly
Unfortunately, for Textron they didn't learn from history and proceeded with building the engineers wet dream which is why this rifle never made it to production.
Although the US Army passed on the weapon, the French Army adopted it as a replacement for the FAMAS in 2023 before discovering that the plastic rounds would melt in the barrel after around a hundred rounds had been fired, completely disabling the weapon...
I came to the comments looking for this
Army infantry: 40% lighter? Awesome....
Army officials: 40% lighter? Good, they can lug 40% more ammo....
Right? Fuck flag officers. Worthless, credit-hog politicians
Infantry in any branch logic 😂😂
In Nam I ALWAYS took more ammo.
@Trickywoo I wasn't a grunt I installed setup calibrated and took down portable radar sets I was out past the wire only once or twice but I did have to spend some nights out on these op's most of the time nothing happened a few times that it did I was real glad I had the extra ammo and I had taken the time to cite my 16 in. The first time being an FNG my rifle wasn't sighted in that night was frustrating and terrifying at the same time
Army infantry oh it broke
Army infantry to many parts and no supply
Army infantry yep someone through me the back up m16
This is what happened to Germany in ww2 there weaponry was to complicated and cost was crazy. Keep weapon simple as possible less parts easy to fix textron won't win unless he's related to one the generals
I prefer a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range
Only what you see pal 😂 what about the OUZIE NEIN MM
40 watts? Thats barely powerful enough to burn hair
Pretty sure i saw it on Forgotten Weapons.
You get 40 watt of useful output by firing a .25 ACP every two seconds.
Isn't the correct term megawatts?
Every inch of the Textron rifle looks like a malfunction waiting to happen. Mechanisms all through every bit of that rifle...
It's the G11 all over again
Who the fuck makes a rifle ELECTRICAL
I can’t see some leg field stripping that tesla for a quick clean in the bush. 🤷🏽♂️
@@loganmott2015 someone who just watched the 10mm caseless pulse rifle from aliens?
logan that’s exactly what I was wondering! Do they know how the army beats up shit? There is no way an electric trigger is infantry proof. Just not gonna happen.
Textron Designer(s): "This would be a good Fortnite gun."
Sig Sauer Designer(s): "We've actually fought in wars, so..."
General Dynamics: "We build fighter jets and submarines. Why not design a gun the same way?"
i initially had that thought too, but sometimes it can be good to have a new kid on the block. every company deserves a chance to at least be tested. you'll never know until you try
I wanna see the most complicated one win. The world would be a better place if you needed a College Degree to be a grunt. It'd give these kids with their stupid Liberal Arts & Gender Studies Degrees an actual job to aspire to.
Big Hosafat I mean, they’re the options for the military to test then choose from, I fail to see how allowing the company to try making a weapon they feel would work well is going to cost anyone their life
Big Hosafat But his comment was about not immediately dismissing one company as a manufacturer just because they predominantly build something else, even if you’ll most likely choose the option of a different company. Obviously the use of a weapon in combat will result in loss of lives, but that has nothing to do with either his comment nor the production of the weapon. Not to mention if the weapon works poorly the government would choose a different weapon from one of the other choices? So again, no, if the weapon works poorly it wouldn’t “cost double” the lives, because it wouldn’t be implemented
@@adog3129 “every company *deserves* a chance” lol no they don’t. Give them all a contract to replace their participation school medal.
Imagine being in the middle of firefight, and then your rifle stop shooting after 10 rounds because you haven't bought monthly subscription from Textron.
Good thing EA doesn't make weapons.
They will fix that by adding a credit card reader next to the mag well, so you can buy credits right there in the battlefield. Pay to win!!
Maybe with this ammo, I can again break into the Top 100 in PubG.
1 round left and you hear
((Raid Shadow Legends))
"Reloading a 4.26 UAC standard magazine into another firearm without authorization is a breach of the Volt End User License Agreement."
When I heard "mechanical electric trigger" I already knew the Textron Lost hans down out of the gate.
but it’s so COOL
an EMP can take out the rifle
@harrylongbaugh1 You say, typing on your phone, that weighs 200 grams and has been on max brightness for the last 32 hours, but still has 30% battery.
@@ewmegoolies False.
Almost all military used weapons aside from small arms use electric primers.
The technology has been in mass use since 1938.
The Texton is possibly the most complex piece of junk ever considered for military use
Dare you to look up a G41(m)
Have you ever seen the XM29 aka OICW? Billions well spent.
Mike S your reply made me laugh lol good one pal 🤛🏻
THE RUSSIANS are laughing their asses off !!
reminds me of hk g11.
It’s cool to know the Marine Corps will get these in 65 years😂
They already have the M27 which is based off the HK416.
Sun Tsu in the art of war said “ he who waste most money will win government contract”.
idk... Glock lost out against the P320 for M17
People always forget that line 😤
Actually the contract goes to the company with executives who look at the government's wish list and says: "no problem" while his engineering department are having a collective heart attack.
@Nospam Spamisham Yea all of those total failures. The occupation of Germany and Japan after WWII for example. And remember that the US military had a plan for a decisive defeat of the Taliban. Like the surge that ended the war in Iraq - they spent years preparing to ensure that all the pieces were in place. Bush listened to his generals and the surge in Iraq succeeded. Obama ignored his generals and listened to Biden so the surge in Afghanistan went off with less than half the number of soldiers at the plan called for.
And the media are saying that it's the military who failed in Afghanistan (or try to blame Bush).
@@colincampbell767 Are you really comparing the surrender and reconstruction of Japan and Germany to the occupation in Iraq and Afghanistan? There was virtually no insurgency in Germany or Japan. And do you really think the 2007 surge in Iraq lead to the "end" of the Iraq war 4 years later in 2011? The only reason we left was because public pressure to bring troops home was too much, but there was still enough support for the "good war" in Afghanistan. Conflict in Iraq wasn't over in Iraq any more than it was in Afghanistan and we ended up going back less than 3 years later anyway.
"Hey, Mitch, can I borrow your rifle charger??"
Nah Just Buy Two Rifle Charger men
SIG Sauer will win:
- Troops dont have to be retrained as the system used is similar to the current one
- Ammunition casing is made of metal, which secondary function is to get the heat out of the weapon
- Increasing design complexity leads to issues in the field, so SIG Sauer using the tried and proven approach will make the soldiers happy
- I guess their weapons will also cost less than a Textron (think about who has the special manufacturing tools and machines to make their special ammunition)
Thats way too logical for any head sheds
@@rafiulhaque8064
I despise flag officers with every fibre of my being.
Sounds like a solid plan tbh
Textron partnered with Winchester to make the ammunition so that shouldn't be an issue. I do think the design is a bit much for the army though. That said, I have a feeling the Textron design team probably knows it's a moonshot design and just wants to push the fold a bit.
@@instars326 Textron and AAI have been working on that system (caseless ammunition, cased telescopic ammunition and that vertically moving cartridge chamber) for a very long time now, the better part of a decade with the LSAT and other prototype rifles firing caseless and cased telescopic ammunition, which have culminated into what you see here. The US Govt has been funding its R&D for quite some time.
Textron: Weird looking overly complicated ar-15 thingy
Sig Sauer: A logical replacement
General Dymanics: American AUG
I like the AUG, so I'll love the updated version from General Dynamics.
@@ppapdddar6159 steyr is my favourite manufacturer so i would like it too.
Ppap Dddar bullpup are garbage for legitimate combat, the mag behind the pistol grip is just not as ergonomic.
Sig Sauer for the win.
@@Leo-vr3bg Quite a few countries are using bullpups these days. Britain, France, Austria, China, Russia experimented with bullpups, but we can't be surprised they didn't do anything with it. After all, this is the country that still uses the Makarov. I know there are more I'm forgetting, and the list continues to grow. I'm not a soldier, or a gun designer, but there wouldn't be an ever growing list of countries adopting them unless there was a good reason for it
The Army will invade Mars and still use the M4.
If it ain't broke...
@@ryanvandoren1519 dont fix it
@@majdikayyali7593 m4 for life baby!
ya m4
I forget what movie or game it was, but they legit had that in it
Kalashnikov said once: "Its easy to invent something complicated, its very difficult to make something simple and reliable, that works."
rob jonson why the spam
Iv always loved his angles on simplicity ! That is why he made the ak system as simple as he did
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
@rob jonson Jesus fucking Christ, he was just asking why you felt the need to comment multiple times instead of putting it all in one comment. You don't need to rage so hard.
rob jonson "screams reliability" as long as it isnt muddy
@rob jonson I'd say "Do me yourself" but then I realise you're probably a sensitive boomer.
electrical parts in a rifle? Am I the only person who instantly see's the problems?
"No army in the history of man has ever had problems deploying, maintaining or using electronic equipment in the field."* *Sample size of study only include the Swiss guards, The Roman Legions and the Icelandic navy. The Roman E-Meks never had a singel ticket in the field!
The more to go wrong..
A small solar cell on the weapon could recharge the batteries because 99.99% of the time the gun is not being fired
Tiny bit of water in the wrong place and...
@@ChefofWar33 good one
Sig, it ticks all the boxes and it's not completely nuckin futs.
Imagine what people thought of replacing wood with plastics at the start. Tech advance is so important just look at the Chinese getting destroyed in their junks against steam powered British ships during the opium wars. A few thousand soldiers were able to defeat an empire with millions because of better tech. That is the purpose of doing this type of research to try and be the first with new tech.
@@domnoya4130 that advantage becomes much more evident in places other than infantry small-arms, like naval surface warfare. Two semi-automatic rifles with 30 round magazines that fire quickly and accurately are both in the same ballpark of deadliness, an HK416 is objectively a much nicer and more technologically advanced gun than an old Chinese Type 56, but it doesn't enjoy anything like the advantage that a steamship does over a sailship, or a fighter jet over a turboprop, or any similar example of complete technological superiority. When a jet meets a turboprop in a dogfight, the jet wins, when a composite-armor main-battle tank meets a cast armor medium tank in an armored duel, the MBT wins, when a guy with a fancy modern kitted out rifle meets a guy with an aging but reliable rifle in a gunfight, the guy who's better at gunfighting wins.
What matters the most for an infantry weapon is reliability and manageability in combat, you want a weapon that almost never breaks down even in rough battlefield conditions, that's easy to fix when it does, and that can be efficiently reloaded and otherwise manipulated in CQB, odd firing positions, behind cover, while prone, etc. A big part of all of that is weight, but it isn't the end-all-be-all.
If you have all that, then you want a weapon with sufficient capacity, range, energy, accuracy, terminal ballistics ("stopping power "), and effective fire rate to manage the entire spectrum of realistic infantry battlefield threats, from CQB to 500yd gunfights in open spaces, through brush and other light barriers, etc. It's here that a 6.8mm has obvious advantages over a 5.56mm, but the 5.56mm still absolutely works. Many, many people have been killed very dead through a bush or other light barrier at some distance from a 5.56mm weapon, we're taking about percentage improvements, not night and day differences.
The real technological breakthrough is the small arms fire control system the Army is researching, that's a game changer, especially for the machine guns, but also for the rifles (and perhaps especially for marksman and sniper rifles). Weight-reducing caseless ammo isn't really a game-changer in a combat situation, especially if it comes at the expense of reliability and ease of field repair and maintenance. A computerized optic that can aim your gun for you at distant targets? Way more so. The fire control system, though, could conceivably be fitted on existing 5.56mm weapons once it reaches an operational state.
So what you’re say is we’ll still be using the M4 20 years later.
Only with new ammo (not sure if it will be polymer or steel/brass, but it will be 5.56).
Joe Claffey Jr the military is already turning to full copper bullets.
As for the casings I doubt that we’ll ever move away from that.
@@freedomsglory1
Have you ever retrieved brass casings after a battalion of soldiers ran through a range? Makes you wish that brass was magnetic and you had huge magnetic with you.
Better that than a Bullpup or that Tektronix nightmare
Polymer 7.62🤷🏼♂️
“Does it cost more to make?”
“Well, yes”
“Ok, we’ll just continue to use the M16 then”
SistemaGaming keep thinking that buddy
The same reason union soldiers used breach loaded carbines instead of lever-action in the civil war. Congress argued the increased rate of rife would increase ammunition costs by unacceptable margin. Nevermind the men found dead in the middle of reloading.
Yeah... After we spend 150 mil +
Yeah, they need that money for "fire-wood"
@@jaredbowman7764
The US was broke back then, like super broke. The North had just started to industrialize a few decades earlier. The war was cutting into so many other projects that there may have been legitimate fears that a weapon system like that would bankrupt the Union. You're talking about ordering hundreds of thousands of new rifles, bullets and then having to ship them out to your armies overnight.
It wasnt economical from a logistical standpoint.
Sig Sauer got us a pretty reliable kit that is sure to never fail us for the next 60 years...
.. SO LET'S GO WITH THE ELECTRIC CASELESS TOYGUN
I suspect that the electrical part is a piezo-electric crystal. Same thing that's in the higher end cigarette lighters.
@@colincampbell767 isnt that the same thing in digital weight scales?
@@jg2232 Could be - never took one of those apart.
@@colincampbell767 They are also used in some car engines for fuel injectors. (The high end model vehicles, not the cheap ones, cuz that stuff is expensive.)
Eugene Stoner: **cackling maniacally in American heaven*
And every 3rd world nation will still be shootingbat us with a Mikhail Kalashnikov designed rifle...
@@ralphmuccilli4798 Because it’s cheap and reliable for it’s price. Many militaries are replacing their AKs with AR-15s instead of 5.56 AKs with mag adapters.
@@myusername3689 Guess the AK74 doesn't exist anymore...
@@cortex8239 Of course russia still keeps their AKs because of political and logistical reasons. Even if they could get their hands on a 5.45x39 or 7.62x39 AR, they won’t adopt it because political reasons.
That completely cylindrical round is begging to be loaded backwards into a magazine
Especially under pressure or by some inexperienced grunt.
*Gun sucks up bullet*
Put a red tip on it?
Charles Yuditsky disposable magazines are always considered disposable right up until the moment someone’s about to throw one away, then their Plt CO says “hold on, we could use that again
Charles Yuditsky i doubt that
My prediction for the final selection:
M4 but with a different color
M249 but with a different color
And a new uniform pattern for no good reason.
Gotta spend that money!
They just changed the uniforms last october or so
M249 is obsolete. Plus they replaced it with HK's new M27 which has a much higher success rate then the M249.
@@noncomplier5385 Actually, the 249 is still in service. The Marines chose to instead issue M27s to riflemen.
So covered in diamonds and gold like a COD skin basically
The Textron will have a sticker on a stock screw, "No serviceable parts inside. Warranty void if removed."
once the battery dies that electrically provides power to this piece of garbage, are our enemies going to stop shooting at us while we perform a combat battery change? Plastic ammo and powered by batteries...sounds like a recipe for disaster.
@@jeffburnham6611 Hey its just like the M-16 though eh they dont give a fuck send them out let some poor saps in a foxhole figure out and then they will fix it good. Saves on testing time dont you know?
@@jeffburnham6611 I mean, with airsoft, you can swap the battery REALLY quickly when needed.
YMMD.
"In case of emergency, please see manual and call our 1-800 tech help hotline."
*dials 1-800 and opens manual*
First page: 'Fuck you.' All other pages blank.
1-800: "Hello sir, you have reached our help hotline. Fuck you. Good bye."
Ian will be doing Forgotten Weapons episodes on all three of these within a decade.
Hahaha 🤣
Yeh
XD
The first time I heard of the 6.8 round was on future weapons
With the
LWRC PSD
A BEAUTIFUL RIFLE .
IT WAS NOT ADOBTED BACK THEN that was years ago
Lol yeah
They dont learn the ak lesson
Army: So... if ammo lighter i can do more pew pew?
GD: Yes! more pew pew
Sig Sauer: but what about STRONGER PEW PEW?
Army: OOOOH!
Imagine an EMP being deployed and your rifle stops working.
Or it get wet or the batteries die.
Me an intellectual: Throws handful of rounds
CodingCrusader1095 true lmao
Or a watch battery goes dead and it does the same thing....
The only EMP that I know of is a nuclear bomb, so I think there would be bigger problems aside from your weapon not firing.
"Lots of moving parts"
So.... Tons of jams and overall shit tier reliability. GG I guess.
I'ts not a game
@@ProAverageGuy well then even worst right?
@@baronvonsnazzy3355 yup
Remember the round mag cap guns? Do that instead of this...
You do realize these guns get tested a fuck ton before they put them out? and for the army to be looking into It, it must have a pretty good look on it..
more moving parts = more feeding and stoppage problems.
And more clearing and stoppage drills...
Depends on the gun really, there have been guns with nifty mechanisms that worked super well. Just hope their engeneering is on point
Tell that to the Vickers gun
Just wait till one of those plastic based casings gets stuck or melts. Instant horrific weapon jam and cleaning nightmare. The feeding on the first one also makes it basically impossible to do corrective action on a jammed weapon since the round being loaded and the round being ejected aren't accessible.
What I was thinking...
*in a sudden turn of events, america scraps all ideas and decides to adopt the Kar98k but they replace the wood with polymers and chamber it in .45 acp.*
bruh, lever action Henry in .45 Long screams 'Murica
😆
In a sudden turn of events, the modernized Kar98k actually gets chambered with .50 ammo to increase firepower. We don't know how they fit it in there but they did.
Sounds like the fallout universe, where you can literally take what looks like a left-handed (go figure) Remington Mod 700 and just shove a .50 in there :P
spot the werhaboo
A marine would break the textron rifle in 3 minutes tops
Imagine that thing contending with water and sand.
When we get it 200 years from now
Textron ammo looks too much like a black crayon. May not end up so well for the Marine. Or the ammo supply depending on how many Marines it takes to realize that it's not edible.
Adam Lancaster Didn’t think about that but I think your right the Marines will take a liking to it for food
And thats proby why it'll be chosen.. whoever said Military Intelligence????
>Most of the problems the M4 has is alleviated with better mags and ammo
Literally, I'm gonna see these guns on Forgotten Weapons years down the line.
Thank God! Cheap ass built American junk!
@@stankygeorge >Bait posting.
If the enemy isn't hiding behind shit...problem is, 1st guy you drop, his comrades...hide behind shit. A combat medic named Zimmerman (corroborated by Army testing/stats from all post-2002 wars corroborating him) has written valuable notes, but any fool knows 62gr is basically a VARMINTING round with barely enough energy at 200yards to frag, yaw, or fishtail (with hollow-nose-in-FMJ, similar to Russian 5.45, aka "SOST Mk219") and 68-70gr is what Zimmerman recommends (expensive unless ya hand-load. Yes, I do, I'm a weapons engineer, not a mere armorer or ammosmith, and that's why I shoot Grendel: best cost-vs-performance for those of us with lots of 7.62x39 brass, knowing how to anneal it after reshaping it into 6.5G, etc). *_All they need is to replace 6.8SPC & Grendel with a 6x6.8 (6.0mm in the 6.8's brass), so they ONLY replace bolts/barrels as they wear out for most SOCOM troops to carry the upgraded ammo at first, then Recon 775, then the cannon-fodder, I meant...lower scoring infantrymen. :-) Doesn't overheat barrels like 224 Valk, and shoots flatter than ANY other AR15-compatible ammo hat has improved (25% more than 5.56) knockdown-energy (goes thru WALLS/WINDSHIELDS/ETC better, gives "quick-kill" in CQB where the enemy's "minute of man" is basically ANYWHERE he randomly shoots at during his throes-of-death, AND THIS WAS ARMY'S WORST LOSSES OF SOCOM MEN (i.e. those with best investment in training/equipment) THAT NECESSITATE AN UPGRADE: they put 3, 4, or more 5.56's into sandal-wearing goat herders and STILL got killed by the jihadi who was dying but didn't have a "lights out" HYDRAULIC SHOCK killshot because 5.56 is so weak that even inside of 50yards, on a MOVING target, our best guys need SEVERAL rounds into enemies' torsos because he's BLEEDING out instead of dying FAST from hyd shock all too many of the times, Army forensics showed.), with the better bolt-head strength & higher ammo-capacity of 6.8 over Grendel's._*
If the enemy isn't hiding behind shit...problem is, 1st guy you drop, his comrades...hide behind shit. A combat medic named Zimmerman (corroborated by Army testing/stats from all post-2002 wars corroborating him) has written valuable notes, but any fool knows 62gr is basically a VARMINTING round with barely enough energy at 200yards to frag, yaw, or fishtail (with hollow-nose-in-FMJ, similar to Russian 5.45, aka "SOST Mk219") and 68-70gr is what Zimmerman recommends (expensive unless ya hand-load. Yes, I do, I'm a weapons engineer, not a mere armorer or ammosmith, and that's why I shoot Grendel: best cost-vs-performance for those of us with lots of 7.62x39 brass, knowing how to anneal it after reshaping it into 6.5G, etc). *_All they need is to replace 6.8SPC & Grendel with a 6x6.8 (6.0mm in the 6.8's brass), so they ONLY replace bolts/barrels as they wear out for most SOCOM troops to carry the upgraded ammo at first, then Recon 775, then the cannon-fodder, I meant...lower scoring infantrymen. :-) Doesn't overheat barrels like 224 Valk, and shoots flatter than ANY other AR15-compatible ammo hat has improved (25% more than 5.56) knockdown-energy (goes thru WALLS/WINDSHIELDS/ETC better, gives "quick-kill" in CQB where the enemy's "minute of man" is basically ANYWHERE he randomly shoots at during his throes-of-death, AND THIS WAS ARMY'S WORST LOSSES OF SOCOM MEN (i.e. those with best investment in training/equipment) THAT NECESSITATE AN UPGRADE: they put 3, 4, or more 5.56's into sandal-wearing goat herders and STILL got killed by the jihadi who was dying but didn't have a "lights out" HYDRAULIC SHOCK killshot because 5.56 is so weak that even inside of 50yards, on a MOVING target, our best guys need SEVERAL rounds into enemies' torsos because he's BLEEDING out instead of dying FAST from hyd shock all too many of the times, Army forensics showed.), with the better bolt-head strength & higher ammo-capacity of 6.8 over Grendel's._*
If the enemy isn't hiding behind shit...problem is, 1st guy you drop, his comrades...hide behind shit. A combat medic named Zimmerman (corroborated by Army testing/stats from all post-2002 wars corroborating him) has written valuable notes, but any fool knows 62gr is basically a VARMINTING round with barely enough energy at 200yards to frag, yaw, or fishtail (with hollow-nose-in-FMJ, similar to Russian 5.45, aka "SOST Mk219") and 68-70gr is what Zimmerman recommends (expensive unless ya hand-load. Yes, I do, I'm a weapons engineer, not a mere armorer or ammosmith, and that's why I shoot Grendel: best cost-vs-performance for those of us with lots of 7.62x39 brass, knowing how to anneal it after reshaping it into 6.5G, etc). *_All they need is to replace 6.8SPC & Grendel with a 6x6.8 (6.0mm in the 6.8's brass), so they ONLY replace bolts/barrels as they wear out for most SOCOM troops to carry the upgraded ammo at first, then Recon 775, then the cannon-fodder, I meant...lower scoring infantrymen. :-) Doesn't overheat barrels like 224 Valk, and shoots flatter than ANY other AR15-compatible ammo hat has improved (25% more than 5.56) knockdown-energy (goes thru WALLS/WINDSHIELDS/ETC better, gives "quick-kill" in CQB where the enemy's "minute of man" is basically ANYWHERE he randomly shoots at during his throes-of-death, AND THIS WAS ARMY'S WORST LOSSES OF SOCOM MEN (i.e. those with best investment in training/equipment) THAT NECESSITATE AN UPGRADE: they put 3, 4, or more 5.56's into sandal-wearing goat herders and STILL got killed by the jihadi who was dying but didn't have a "lights out" HYDRAULIC SHOCK killshot because 5.56 is so weak that even inside of 50yards, on a MOVING target, our best guys need SEVERAL rounds into enemies' torsos because he's BLEEDING out instead of dying FAST from hyd shock all too many of the times, Army forensics showed.), with the better bolt-head strength & higher ammo-capacity of 6.8 over Grendel's._*
In 14 years in the Army, my M4 never took a crap on me. Only issues I’ve ever had were due to magazines. Saying that, as a Squad/team leader, I’ve seen numerous M4s go down as a result of not conducting proper PMCS or armorer level maintenance.
I've never been in the military but I've owned firearms for over 40 years. Therefore I can speak freely about military weapons and not risk undermining the efforts or morale of our troops who can, will and maybe should ignore me. The M4: the effectiveness/reliability of the round, the safety and the mag release are all down-right dangerous. This divorce has been a long time coming.
@@Nnip9 sadly reality of conflict use is way different than civillian. Imagine armored vehicle with hundreds of kilos of explosives driving in a conflict zone towards guys with anti-armor and you're in it.
Is it safe? Absolutrly not. It is unavoidable.
I've actually seen more AKs malfunction than I have M4s, and I spent 8 years (3 combat deployments to Iraq, as an infantryman) in the Army. The M4 is a perfectly good rifle. The new M855A1 ammo is also quite devastating.
My biggest fear is all the new high-speed gadgets mean that many more things that can go wrong. Look what happened when the M16 was first fielded, and now imagine what could happen with something many times more complicated.
"Moving barrel decreases firerate"
MG3: "hold my beer"
@@irishbeermarine Or a gun enthusiast!
When someone says MG3 all i can hear in my head is BRRRRRRRRRRRR
@@BlAcKSaDooo That's the Mg42 not the mg3, mg3's the new slow firerate 7.62×31mm gun used by the german Bundheswehr!
th-cam.com/video/rbHqwBmfR9g/w-d-xo.html
Benjamin Stenke *MG42 man, not mg3
th-cam.com/video/rbHqwBmfR9g/w-d-xo.html
@@lepmuhangpa The MG3 has a fire rate of 1200 rpm (according to google) wich is still pretty fast. MG74 has around 800 rpm could it be possile you have mistaken those 2?
My brain says SIG, but the Army never said the same thing as my brain.
I'm also thinking the Sig. But yeah, since when did the big green dick of the Army ever make sense in its decisions?
Hey remember when the US army shafted the FN FAL (T48) for M14 (T44)? Or when they dismissed the XCR just because they didn't have a blank firing adapter?
It's never about the performance of the gun, man.
I also choose SIG because it is not complex and use conventional design (which faster to reload and more precise trigger in general, useful for frontline combat). But I like bullpups to use as DMR (which prioritize accuracy over reload speed).
old people: M14!
Me: M4!
These companies: weird ass gun i dont understand*
hahah this pretty much sums it right up , pinning comment
@@Taskandpurpose oh wow, thanks!
Only lord tachanka has no end.
buffer tubes are ghey
People who watch Forgotten Weapons: I've seen wierder.
"The caseless telescoped ammo that it fires."
But I can see the case.
They're just trying to reinvent the muzzleloader paper cartridge.
20% lighter ammo just means 20% more ammo carried.
Don't like it?
Suppress the enemy with it and then it is gone.
More ammo is always good
which is the whole reason military went from 7.62 to 5.56, now they want to up the power but if they can save weight at the same time its a win-win.
But i doubt the "caseless" designs will win, too many extra parts = reliability issues.
That still seems like sort of a win
Too true
the Textron would be a nightmare to dissemble
we'd all have to get engineering degrees to operate that thing.
It hinges open like an AR. It's actually simpler to disassemble than messing with the cotter pin, firing pin, and cam pin of an AR just to get the bolt separated from the carrier.
@@Taskandpurpose At-least we didnt go with the G11. If you need an engineering degree for the Textron, you would need a doctorate for the G11.
@Mira culix More so when they can tear down the weapons in seconds leaving trainees thinking WTF. 🤣🤣🤣
I'm very pessimistic about that rifle.
They won't go with Sig, because the Sig makes sense.
now we're thinking like top brass !
@@Taskandpurpose This explans why they even considered Dragonshit for a second...
The Sig is the worst of the bunch and doesn't make any real improvements over the M4. Sig also completely bumbled the M17 release, which they shouldn't have won anyways.
What happened to America first.Stop procuring weapons made by foreign companys.
@@realisrealite5554 ...Why? If we cut ties, then we'd lose a good 80% of our gear. LIBA, Israel. The 120mm, German. M9s, Italian. Your idea is stupid.
Chris: " Q-tip boxes only come in 1000's"
*Literally shows a picture of a 1500 box of Q-tips*
Didn't catch the Photoshop lol?
An Amazon warehouse has less moving parts than that Textron design
I was thinking the exact same thing! Cleaning that thing must be super fun!!!!!!
@@carlosmaldonado5411 Maybe its cheap enough to throw away when it get dirty :)
Replace the 5.56 NATO? Yea right... they'd have to change all the other countries too apart of NATO.
@@jacob4155 it has to happen eventually otherwise your going to stagnate when it comes to your infantry weapons
@@carlosmaldonado5411 the Army is the reason I don't like camping and don't like cleaning weapons lol.
Meanwhile, us marines are having fun with 2 sticks and a rock.
I heard rumors of them upgrading to sharpened sticks by 2022
Sgt. Johnson told me you guys had to share the rock.
We’ll all have those after WWIII.
@@Acheiropoietos you have them now dumbass.
@@porkins93 Not radioactive ones though.
I like the bulpup design, but never thought about the reload when prone being a problem until this. Never fired one, so I claim ignorance on that.
It’s not just the reload. Bullpup, is great in terms of having a compact rifle with a full length barrel, but they also typically have a very long length of pull. Think of a modern soldier decked out in body armor. Ideally, they should have a rifle with a short stock that shoulders quickly and easily. A bullpup does not fulfill this role very well. Also, not all are ambidextrous. Some you can only shoot right handed and if for some reason, like shooting around corners, you wanted to switch hands, others cannot accommodate that and will eject the brass in your face.
I’m not against bullpups, but the reality is they deliver serious advantages at serious costs.
Watched 2 different bull pups kill their users when they smoked a round next to their face.... no thanks.
I hate bulpups
Funny how it's only Cappy who finds it a problem when the whole Aussie Army can do it.
I've fired 2 and they both were horrible. I hope the army doesn't go with it
1:20 Soldier in combat: "Has anyone seen my rifle charger?"
Or
Soldier 1: "Oh no! I dropped my rifle in a puddle of water!"
Soldier 2: "Relax, we'll put it in a bag of rice when we get back to base."
,,Yeah right here, gimm-... Wait. That's not the rifle charger, that's the charger for my smartphone! No wonder why the other one wouldn't fit into the socket! Fuck!"
"Don't worry guys I have a power bank with me"
Put a crank handle on the side and just crank it 1000 times every few hours.
"Sorry bro, I'm using it for my Juul...and buttplug"
@@finalcam1740 Stop right there! Make it yourself and file a patent so that companies will have to buy it from you.
I’ve seen ‘joe’ destroy 100’s of thousands of dollars in equipment but the amount of marriages and relationships ‘Jody’ destroys : priceless.
we're very good at getting all our deployment money taken in the divorces after we get back home
Noo... Damn you Jody. Damn you to hell.
These arms developers need to design a Jody Rifle. Single shot fire&forget homewrecker. Each package says in bold red letters Fuck Collateral Damage
JODY is an old DOD program designed to bankrupt lower enlisted in order to boost re enlistment numbers.
You blame Jody, but we all know Suzie's is really to blame.
"The M16/m4 is getting replaced"
*reads title*
*Brust into laughter*
*b r u s t*
@@dannylamb456
Brust in haus, jä?
Menaceblue3 g e r n e
Maybe the new weapon will be B R U S T fire?
Hey! I've seen this one before - Marty McFly
Ex uk military, the bull pop is great when your lying on the ground to aim . It is a nightmare to fire in pretty much any other position as the weight you place on the barrel to move it will have virtually no resistance meaning your basic body movements will effect the shot . With a standard rifle that little extra weight of the housing does negate a lot of this affect which in turn makes it easier to aim when you haven't got a fully built up position .
Used the AUG, in the form of the Austeyr 88.
Never had any problems in any position, except shooting offhand. Gotta get your face back, can't see through the scope properly.
The only people that like the Textron and think it's not too complicated are the same people who would never join the infantry.
Source: engineering enlistee.
I wish it weren't, 'cause I really like the ammo and feeding mechanism, but yeah, that shit is gonna wreck every private's day trying to clean that/ break it down.
It's definitely more complicated than an M4 and even its competition. But would field stripping it really be any more complex than a 249 or 240? Sorry, I'm a medic and haven't messed with crew serves too much in recent years, but I could imagine that cleaning this could be just a simple/complex as them.
Idk, H&K and Winchester are making this with Textron and I'd love to see more video of it.
@@thomasbrand2650 y'know, I don't think it's more complicated than those. However, It looks like there might be an issue where the new round is used to push the casing out. It looks like it isn't dependent on the recoil and relies on something else entirely to chamber the next round and push the new round up to be fired/ aligned with the barrel. It could be a mechanical lock, like a bolt catch, but the fact that it has that vertical movement separate from the rest of the action kinda terrifies me about it. Which sucks, because I'm kind of a gear-do and love that new age shit. Me and my shame will see ourselves out.
RobotDCLXVI Yea I’m not trynna get the textron. If it’s more work to clean after the field I ain’t about it
The Textron's weird design appears to be so that it can have proper obturation with a cylindrical, telescoped cartridge with no neck or shoulder. That moving chamber thing is very complex and in some ways reminiscent of the G11's rotating chamber. This is one of the main problems with exotic ammunition ideas; feeding them reliably. That mechanism looks like a total disaster in the making. The General Dynamics RM277 appears to have a moving barrel and be recoil-operated, but that's not all. That weird little can on the muzzle is ported on the front. It's not a brake or a silencer of any kind. It's a muzzle booster to force the barrel backward and help the recoil action cycle. That's what they mean by "gas and recoil operated". Literally century-old WWI technology, like a Vickers Gun. A muzzle booster on a recoil-operated firearm. Weird.
This is going to end the same way the last 30 times the army tried to replace the M16.
Will never believe it. Until I actually see it.
Yeah they keep going for overly complex solutions in an effort to save weight.
Why don’t they try consulting with the fucks that actually use the fucking things everyday instead of playing grab arse in board rooms.
My unborn great-grandkids can’t wait to get their hands on an M4A23 when they serve!
XM29 XM8 many failed attempts they can't replace
My prediction: DoD will spend millions, constantly change specs (depending on which former colonel turned lobbyist spoke to them last), have at least 50 Congressmen try to influence the process (depending on which former general turned lobbyist promises to build it in their district), end up deciding on an incremental change to the M4 design, but somehow all 3 companies will profit from not getting the contract.
Duh you expect the DoD to actually make this an efficient process? Gotta think about them poor lobbyist that need to make as much profit as possible after paying off all them Politicians and Generals along with paying themselves.
@@abes3925
Those poor multi-billion dollar companies. They have my sympathies. Sniff. Poor fellas.
On the point!!!
That's called government efficiency and you nailed it!
Best response.
i personally have never owned or operated a bull pup weapon system, but this is the first time ive ever heard someone list some very notable downsides of them. Nice video!
“Former Army Veteran”?!? So does that mean you re-enlisted?? 🤔
I hate that that's what my first thought was too xD
My first thought too.
I think that "former veteran" would parse to "active duty". Which is apparently not what he is. I suspect he mis-spoke and didn't catch the error until the video posted.
I've heard this before it means that you were a member of the US Military(Veteran), then requested from the DoD that you no longer wanted to be a "Veteran", hence you are reclassified as a "former Veteran"! :)
@@pukavoket But But But, how we he get free Applebee's on Veteran's Day!!?? Oh the travesty!😭😭😭😭
Meanwhile in Russia:
"Comrades, let me introduce you to the AK-20. Totally not the same rifle we have had for 71 year's just chambered in a better version of what ever the western pigs have!"
To be honest, the AK 107 is one sick gun. Thing has zero recoil
RIFLE IS FINE!
@@nicholasthurmond4006 Comrade Chesnokov, is that you?
@@owennelan1267 you sure 'bout that?
@@Michael-mn4ef wtf I never made this comment? Is someone using my account?
Edit: I fixed it
7:35 - - "The massive cost to replace the weapons." Given how much money the Pentagon pisses away the idea that $150M is a lot seems laughable.
that's not a bad point, 1 for you sir
The Army has spent $1 billion on OCP uniforms since 2010. $150 million on rifles that will last a lot longer than uniforms is nothing.
AxemanTitan
agreed, kinda stupid how they spent a Billion on Uniform Research (-_-)
haloplayer 117pro Especially the money spent on that crap UCP/ACU pattern
CR BZ Too heavy/expensive/large; plus we already have those. Sure, the platform could be updated, but the .338 is a nice compromise. I’m sure the .50 BMG will still have it’s used alongside these (if they are ever implemented)
I’m just wondering how much they’re gonna sell those old M4s for 👀
@@sarminder4357 The Marines already have the HK416 based M27 in service.
After they cut them into little itty bitty pieces they'll re-tile Nancy Pelosi's mansions.
they're probably gonna sell them to other NATO countries I guess
Not many NATO countries use the M4 or intend to switch to it.
Maybe South American or Asian countries will be interested to cheaply buy them.
They won't because they are military rifles! Not the same as civilian rifles!
"In this episode of forgotten weapons..."
ISPY4ever “it was around the year 2020 and the army was looking for an replacement of the old 5.56 cartridge back then”
@@starstencahl8985 That's weird to think about but pretty cool. I doubt Ian's gonna age anyways lol.
Future G11's
I think Sig has the best squad weapon, hands down. Sig has always made really good quality weapons.
Hm H&K are my favourite. they made our l85 bad l86 good and made some of the best weapons on the market like the G36C MP5 and MP7
You can never go wrng with SIG✊🏾💪🏾
Actually if the best they can do are handguns that go off because the drop safety is malfunctioning?
The real question is when is the NFA being repealed so we can buy military surplus M4s, M16s, 240s, and SAWs?
They will sell the guns to 'freedom fighters' in some place like syria.
After we kill all politicians.
yes @fried rice we need to remove some flesh before this human right is restored to the people (survivors) -> dont kill them send them to the re-education camps and let them die of old age after a long life of productivity for the common good. its what they wanted after all were just helping them achieve their own goals.
@@HaqqAttak harrylongbaugh1 - well you guys aren't wrong.
@@HaqqAttak tfw foreign terrorists have more 2nd Amendment than regular citizens
Here we are nearly 3 years later and the Army finally settled on the SIG bid. I do think that the Textron and GD bids were good but I can see the merits in the SIG. This has gotten farther than other attempts to replace the M16/M4 so this looks more promising. Likely will end up first for SF, then frontline troops, and then trickle their way down from the Frontline all the way to the National Guard and Boot camp. It will probably be a while before they end up in wide scale use and probably decades later when(if it does) become widely used across NATO.
I don't see outside the change of ammunition to the 6.8 why even get the SIG. Seems the same to me.
I would've picked the GD design personally as Bullpups have the physical advantage of the ability to be shorter or even longer if the thing needs be. As someone who doesn't spend years with an m4 a bullpup feels better to shoot and reloading doesn't bother me. Bullpups feel better for me to hold and aim as the weight is closer to the shoulder as well.
As for ammunition the other two also looked interesting. Can't wait to see the civilian version of the other two.
@@dianapennepacker6854You might not have used an m4 often, but US soldiers have, it's been their main assault rifle for years.
"You don't need a higher ROF if you put accurate rounds down range"
~Laughs in MG3
SPRITE-KNIGHT
Sadly the German army is in progress of replacing it
WHAT?!?!
NIoooo :(
Accuracy through volume
MG3 will be soon replaced.
zepter00 what will it be replaced with?
All I see is a shitload of moving parts and unnecessary complexity.
Robyn Highart so basically like a scorpion evo?
*[laughs in mosin nagant]*
*[LAUGHS IN MAKAROV]*
Not really... The only too complex thing seemed to be Textron
@@juniorgalacto17 Pretty sure that's what he was referring to.
"Hi, I'm Ian McCollum and today were looking at 3 weapons from U.S. military that came from a program much like the ACR program, but was far more ambitious..."
Lol
I see you're a man of culture as well
lolol thats very likely to happen in a couple years
I don't know about the other two but when i saw the Textron rifle, Forgotten Weapons channel is the first thing that came to mind
The military has been trying to find a replacement for the M4 for decades. Probably won't happen this time around due to ammunition commonality amongst NATO nations.
A little difficult to see how to justify the cost of the limited performance improvements.
Big issue is that the other nations we might be fighting (Russia, China and probably Iran) all have, or will probably develop body armor. The 5.56 mm won't be able to penetrate armor at range, and with new optics being used by us and other nations, and we'll probably be fighting at longer ranges, which is another problem for 5.56 mm weapons. Right now we're a generation ahead of the other super-powers of the world in optics. The army is probably ready to leap up with weapons and ammo this time as well.
Dude 5.56 has great range. Most organized militaries use a smaller round. As for the 762 39 it has way less range than m4. As for body armor makes sence to go around it not through it
@@Castragroup Most people don't have the luxury to actively aim for non body armor parts on a battlefield. It's called shooting center mass for a reason lol
Don't forget that the French foreign legion does not use 556!
They will spend all that money, then stick with the M4.
That's what they've done the last couple of times.
if it aight broke don't fix it.
They won't be able to get the rest of NATO to go along with the change.
I hope so
And why wouldn't you....
What are the chances that this whole endeavor goes the way of the SPIW, ACR, OICW, XM8, etc.?
the chances are probably pretty good honestly
Well, it is about that time to waste a few tens of millions of dollars on a weapon to replace the M16 series. I would say that we're getting close to making the technical leap to something else, and these three will lay the ground work for what comes next. If nothing else I'd bet that one of the ammunition types will be used in the replacement, earlier attempts to replace the M16 flirted with caseless cartridges as well as plastic cases but the technology was way to immature, from what I've read the technology has finally matured enough that it might be ready for general hard use.
@@robertharper3754 The ACR trial conclusions were that the Caseless and Polymer Cased ammo had proven their viability for battlefield use. The main (and essentially only) requirement for adoption of a new gun at the time was that it needed a basically impossible 100% hit probability increase over the M16, considering the base hit probability for the M16 was based on flawed data that gave the idea it was much worse than it really was.
About 78% give or take
Probably would given how hard it is to introduce a new weapon to the Soldiers anyway also the M4 has proven pretty reliable over the years wouldn't be surprised if they decide to keep it another 10 years
Imagine how disappointing it will be when a cartridge casing falls down inside your shirt and *doesn’t* give you a first degree burn!
This would make lefties very happy. Especially not having to make deflectors out of the strip from the magazine.
Omfg I’m left handed and that shits the worst
I feel like the Sig Sauer bid is the best option, the weapons are still light, more powerful ammunition and it’s not so complicated that it’ll stop working easily
M4 still better. Hopefully this program is a excuse to keep the technology developing for the future and to avoid expertise leaving
"you don't need a higher rate of fire"
*Laughs in MG3*
But it's slightly lower than the MG42
*[Laughs in Vulkan Minigun]*
Laughs in Laser beam
Laughs in MK19
*laughs in A-10*
my list :
1: Sig Sauer bid
2: General Dynamics bid
3: Textron bid
"Id need a solid 15000 q tips to clean the sand out of that thing" makes a box that says 1500
what you don't know is I bought 10 of those boxes.
@@Taskandpurpose oof thats alot of q tips
@@lilmac1050 Buy stock in Q-Tips now while it's still cheap
@@lilmac1050 he was an army dog. They dont handle math very well 😂😂😂😂
Lmao, 'member what happened last time the U.S. army adopted an over-engineered and over-complicated weapon?
Pepperidge farm remembers.
Pepperidge farm ALWAYS remembers
Which gun was it?
I'm really hoping The Army goes with the Sig Sauer.
Same, the other rifles look like shit
Austin; YES!
@b ray Because I'm part of we.
SIG SAUER rifle is coooooool !
B ray chill out mr article 15. It fucking matters.
HK should just respin the G11 with larger caseless ammo.
Knowing HK, they'd probably just tack on some rails and send them out as is.
@@jac1207 underrated comment
Redesign the caseless ammo with a plastic housing like the Textron, to help with the fragileness. But they would need to engineer a ejection for the plastic casings because the g11 was completely caseless
@@andrewjb05051998 The G11 did have a simple ejection to clear miss fires. They would eject straight down. It was unused during normal operation though maybe it let some hot air out.
Ha, respin, I see what you did there. Because it has a spinning action.
You don’t wanna be a grandpa but I will. That Textron rifle rifle and ammo is too damn complicated. Seems like it’s less ammo per magazine too.
Yeah but it looks so much cooler, it's like some shit out of the Alien universe!
unigamehead Caseless ammo is definitely the future, but it's certainly not the present seeing the textron design
This account name is completely Unoriginal ceaseless ammo has been the future since I first got in in 2002😂. Case less doesn’t look practical on a carbine that has a limited sized magazine. I can see it working for belt fed like I remember reading about so many years ago where magazines are boxes but they don’t work for Belt fed because the heat would melt the round or cook them off. He said it won’t melt but unless those rounds are Teflon I don’t really see it not melting or getting soft in heat.
@@jaywatson8720 There have been some huge advances in polymer technology, if done right they should be perfectly fine.
The more features you have the more shit that can break on you.
the A2 with 20" barrel was the way to go.. keep up the velocity on the 556 round, it works.
I’d go with the Sig design, especially with their ammo design.
Which bid do you think will be accepted by the Army for the $150million a year contract? My $2 dollars is on SIG....but that was my last $2 dollars.
I’m betting on the Sig. considering how the Army works and selects new weapons the Sig being a traditional setup without electronics it’s most likely to be adopted
I AM going for SIG SAUER, Task and Purpose!!
Sig is the most likely to win.
@@Thegaming_husky , Yeah , You are right. SIG SAUER will more than likely be The United States Marine Corps and United States Army's, supplier of 🔥 power. Our Gun Guys already have the M17 Pistol, which replaced the Beretta M9. 🇺🇸🗽🦅🔫⚔️
Is it true that 6.8 has TWICE as much foot pound at the muzzle as 5.56?
Before we goto the “winning bid” from sig Sauer
I'm interested in seeing performance information as soon as they release some of that data
Lol, whatever you do don't drop it.
I'm not that confident in thier stocks though.
It's clear that each developer expects to make their REAL $$$ in supplying their uniquely specific Ammo!!!
2:44 "I've seen Joe destroy about everything you can think of with a back of a Stryker ramp..." True words.
Fun little accident during my service time: When I was a conscript in FDF during my NCO course one guy left his RK-62 rest on Sisu SA-150 tire and forgot it there for the field chow. After everyone had their chow the drivers left and one drove over the forgotten weapon. The weapon didn't take any damage. Barrel was still straight, sights were in place and nothing was fractured nor broken. It worked perfectly during next range day.
The difference between a pneumatic press bending metal and a thing getting run over can fill volumes.
You know it is a failure when the design with caseless ammo has more moving parts than the one with cased ammo.
The only other ceaseless gun I can think of is the Kraut Space Magic™, and that had a ton of moving parts. What caseless guns decrease the number of moving parts used?
ArrKayCee lsat is caseless
@0 0 ah yes the ruger 22 is a failure then.
@Brett Mcclain Textron's design is not caseless -- it's a polymer cased telescoped design.
The "telescoped" part refers to the projectile being entirely inside the casing.
If there had been no polymer casing, it would be called a caseless telescoped design.
Wonder why they have the plastic case moving a bunch of times instead of just having it eject straight out in front. Like at the 3 o'clock.
Me: * breathes heavy thinking about all the magazines, rifles, and ammo that are going to come out in mass surplus* 🙌
The rifles will be destroyed, the government will not allow full auto surplus rifles into civilian circulation.
ecleveland1 damn🤷♂️ woulda been cool though
@@ecleveland1 Bruh they can just convert them to semi-auto and gain a significant profit. LARPers will buy that shit without second thought. Besides, Colt is already selling semi-auto M4 and M16 clones.
kafoop Would be cool if they did make an exception to make back some of the money on them. But who knows maybe they’ll destroy them...maybe sell them to an enemy. Anything goes for the government lol
@@ecleveland1 They certainly wouldn't destroy all those surplus rifles. If they weren't converted over to semi-auto and sold to the public, they would definitely be sold to our allies.
Sig is the best once again, yet they will be turned down once again.......
1:25 “electrical mechanical trigger”
THERE GOES YOUR DEAL
I don't know how many times I've went to check a pair of NVG only to find a dead battery. I sure as hell don't want any electronics in my trigger!
@@homerbuntin4751 Same goes for cars. Electrical failures will ALWAYS be worse lol
Screams UNRELIABLE
@@luiscastro798 That's right!
Anyone who has any experience with the electronics industry is all too aware of how notoriously unreliable they are. The whole "less moving parts = better reliability" thing completely falls apart when those parts are replaced by electronics. It might sound like they are reducing mechanical complexity, which they might be doing, but the electronics they are replacing them with are many times more complex.
Textron has too many moving parts; more chances fore something to go wrong. I admit I’m biased (love my P365) but I think the SIG is gonna win this one.
Nyet! Rifle is fine!
But tbh, I wonder how the Textron made it to the last three.
Will they add a diploma in mechanical engineering to the enlistment requirements?
you're qualified after a quick 3 month briefing
Grunt proofing this gun is like grunt proofing a F-35 i.e not happening.
The Textron is the best.
@@Taskandpurpose imagine joking about 3 months being too much training
US military memes
they should. Smarter soldiers can think for themselves and use initiative in a tight situation. That's why you you need to have a higher GT to join SF
This reminds me of the ACR program 30 years ago with the HK G11, Steyr ACR, and other guns.
One thing I'll go with is they'll pick the worst of them.
100%
That's how we got the M14 so it's just par for the course at this point.
@@zachhenderson4475 Which explains why the FN_FAL lasted longer in service in other countries. Having shot the M1A I can't say its a bad rifle but I can say its over priced....Then again after owning a FN-FAL I'm a bit biased and yes, she shoots quite well..Way out there.
the cheapest and most easy to manufacture. Infanterie and and guns are both expendable and mass manufacture goods. In case of a big war you want to spit both out as fast as possible and as cheap as possible.
No, they'll pick the cheapest bidder as always
Who else thinks there will be a world outcry about the plastic that the military dispersed after getting into another conflict?
By "plastic", do you mean petroleum-based polymers? Wait.... petroleum-based?! :-O
@@OscarSchneegans lol there already is radiation left over from the fights anyone near the warzone is gonna have birth defects and probably become infertile
@@MegamanTheSecond You know the effects of radiation are exaggerated in those cases tho when it comes to fertility. There are many people who survived Chernobyl, for example, who still went on to have children.
Now the other long term effects, such as cancer, are a bit of a different story...
Maybe its biodegradable plastic cases lol
@@TheDkb427 lol if it rained and your bullets got wet... welp I need a new set of magazines cause mine are full of goo
FN SCAR the homewrecker. I LOL'ed at that.
I think the Textron bid is best in isolation, the ammo weight savings and the way it deals with the casings is very interesting. General dynamics seems like it won't win based on rifle alone but it's worth seeing how polymer ammo will deal with heat. The Sig bid is probably the best from a logistical standpoint. The only real difference in production will be the type for making any new cartridge and they even have similarly the casings already for it from the 7.62 cartridges as it's a ×51mm cartridge and so much like the 5.7×28mm it's a fairly simple switch for the cartridges.
Marine Corps won’t see any of these for 20 years. If anything the army will give their old m4s to the Marines
Second world allied countries cant wait to be sold all those M4 and the terrorists and third world countries are waiting for the M16s of the formers
Along with the stockpiles of 5.56 and 7.62, go wild boys
Marines are upgrading their weapons systems. The days of old hand me downs are over.
The good thing is that they will break rather quickly when they don't get maintained well. Unlike the millions of AKs that are being used since the 60s.
Okay a few points about the General Dynamics entrants. First the ammo was developed by True Velocity and has a steel base just like the Sig Sauer version does. They can get away with a polymer for the rest of it because they use a 20 inch barrel. That means that they can use less powder to result in a higher velocity than the Sig Sauers 13 inch barrel(2850 fps Sig Sauer, 3100 fps G.D.). Third they warrantee the suppressor for the lifetime of the barrel, pretty is as pretty does. Fourth is about the SAW replacement. They are essentially going back to the Grand and BAR combo of WWII, a better semi auto rifle plus a squad automatic rifle with a limited auto fire capability using the same ammo as the rifle. Currently what the Marines are doing with their HK 27 are doing just that. Add the Sig Sauer sight if the proposed General Dynamics sight is inferior.
The use of polymer actually lets General Dynamics have a higher pressure cartridge than Sig.
@@ramlaen9473 Right, steel and brass casings begin to pressure weld themselves to the chamber wall at higher operating pressures.
To be honest The general dynamics bullpup looks like the halo reach DMR
M4 style rifle chambered in that 6.8 mm ammo would be a solid choice IMO