@@quantisedspace7047 But they are so off-putting when one's on the way back from the opera or the Malthusian Society meeting and attempting to partake of that splendid reserve edition Dunning Kruger champagne!
A point of correction to my Hon Friend. The 1973 stock as built did indeed have transverse seating in the middle of the car. When I was crew on the Piccadilly Line working a night turn we had a few hours in the depot between arriving with one of the last trains and departing with one of the first the following morning. Four of the transverse seat cushions laid in the doorway made a tolerably comfortable bed, err allegedly.
I'm passionate about engineering. To me, any solution that is inexpensive, reliable and not immediately obvious is "fascinating." Of course, there was no need to make the door tops circular, except to serve a need to make the door attractive when closed.
@@ROCKINGMAN Square tunnels at depths of 70' would have taken considerably longer for a tunnelling machine to drill through London Clay than a cylindrical one.
I’m a casual viewer who likes learning about the Tube’s interiors. Also, Geoff did a video on the Tube Interiors as well. The more discourse, the merrier.
It's important to note that the 1973 stock, pre-refurbishment, did still have transverse seating, and that - depending on the way you see the 1986 stock - the 1992 stock was in fact the first modern tube stock with fully longitudinal seating (1986 Green and Red did have fully longitudinal seating too, however Blue did not).
Another correction to note regarding the 1973 stock is that there's a wider space at all doors specifically to accommodate luggage, not the use of transverse seating as asserted by JH. They also featured 'dual-level' arm rests, something removed in the refurbishment.
One of the reasons for longitudinal seating is to allow the tops of the wheels to poke above the floor (which is why the 72 stock has crossways seats in the middle, but not over the wheels)
It's wild to think that bench seating along the walls and class distinction elimination took many decades to come to fruition. These are such small but simple changes. It doesn't take much to move the seats just 90 degrees.
I know that Stockholm subway has (even mostly I think) seating arranged in the "train" way. The sideway seating is quite uncomfortable (as pointed out in the video) so if you don't really need to cram in five people wide standing (as famously in many Japanese cities) even during rush hour, I believe comfort will trump capacity.
Frankly I am sorry that the modern trains offer no option at all for transverse/sideways seating for fairly long journeys on the District, Central and Piccadilly lines and the Overground, as it offers much better views. The Metropolitan Line and Elizabeth Line do offer a modest amount of transverse seating.
It seems more likely that the point of an uncomfortable third class was pretty much the same as for the present day uncomfortable economy class in airliners - to encourage those who can afford to to pay more.
Hi Jago - I’d like to see a review of the lighting technology used over time on the underground - or is that too deep a rabbit-hole? I recall trains with real round light bulbs, but 110 volt I think to make them less attractive to being stolen? Of course fluorescent lights, but sometimes fed with from high frequency inverters / motor generators and making a jolly whining noise. They also used to make swirling patterns when they aged that varied with motor loading. And latterly I guess LED lights, including odd colours by the doors etc. There - I’ve almost written the script for you!
If anyone's wondering why 2183, I think it's because the Met is 160 years old (1863), he covered 160 years of history. So 160 years from now is 2183. (The Tube will be 320 years old by then; 160*2 = 320.)
I grew up in North London and had occasion to make frequent trips to Barts Hospital in my early years from about 1956 onwards. Trolley bus (later superseded by Routemasters) to Wood Green and then the Piccadilly Line to Holborn -often fitting in a visit to Bassett Lowke's-shop on the way to the hospital. The tube trains must have been 1920's or 1930's stock. They were wonderful with lots of wood. I remember being fascinated by how the doors slid into the carriage structure as they opened.
Nice video Jago... My personal favourite interior design on the Underground was the old Metropolitan A-Stock; the pre-refurbishment style with early 1960s high-backed seats (black/grey/red moquette)- and of course luggage racks! Miss those old, cosy styles....
I commuted between Liverpool Street and Great Portland Road when they switched over from the A stock to the modern trains, and I was *not* sorry to see the old trains go. They were awful during the rush hour, with their layout making it particularly difficult to get off. From what I can remember, they were also uncomfortable in (a) cold and (b) hot weather.
As a londoner i’ve always wondered why some trains have seats along the wall and why some have them facing each other. This has been a fascinating insight into how we’ve got where we are. Now when I’m on my hour long Overground trip from one end of the line to the other I’ll be thinking about the “intended user” making a short journey as I’m jostled from side to side.
"In 1920, the next big thing arrived on the piccadilly line", I half expected you to follow with "these are the trains that operate to this day on the Bakerloo line with only minor changes"
I know why you were hired to chase that man: he stole your mentions of the A, C, and D stock from the subsurface lines! :) (I kid. I love seeing this kind of thorough but quick evolution of how the Tube stock came to be.) Thanks again, Jago!
Hi Jago from Spain. My earliest (1957) use of the Metropolitan line used individual compartments with slam doors and it was a real cram-in when there was a match on at Wembley.
When my family moved to Croxley in 1957, the Metropolitan line trains running in a cutting at the bottom of our garden were wooden, brown, slam-door compartmented trains, though I cannot remember ever travelling on one. I was still at school in London and travelled daily on the now-closed Croxley line via Watford High Street to Willesden Junction. By the time I started commuting into London on the Metropolitan line in 1963, these old carriages had been replaced with more modern all-aluminium stock.
That was easy to achieve because the Liverpool trains were of mainline height and width; unlike Tube Stock trains which are 30" lower in height, and a floor height that is 20" lower than 1892 Liverpool trains, thus nothing to do with Liverpudlians being better engineers
@@FART-REPELLENT It has a lot to do with Liverpolitans being better engineers. Look at the City and South London trains. They had an electric *loco!* The City & South London was an all new railway. The train design was not constrained it was a blank sheet design. The Liverpool trains were a world away from them. They look like modern trains they were so advanced. *The world's first EMUs.* If London was building a new elevated electric railway, they would have had electric locos. To their credit, the Liverpolitans stood outside the box then thought. They even had a drivers window arranged to look back down the side of the train/platform. Simple. Brilliant. They even had the first ever signal lights. The Overhead trains also ran in tunnel. Dingle Station is underground. You sound bitter and twisted. Must be a Chelsea fan.
@@johnburns4017 The only reason why the Liverpool elevated railway trains looked more modern than the City & South London Railway trains is because the railway in Liverpool was built to a mainline loading gauge; as it was built above ground in open-air it was considerably cheaper to build. Whereas tunnelling shields used for drilling deep below ground were considerably more expensive as the technology was new, and so the larger the diameter of tunnels to be built the more expensive the railway, hence why it was decided that the tunnels for the C & SLR should be built to a small diameter to reduce costs, subsequently this cost saving exercise resulted in severe restrictions on the design of C&SLR; therefore your counter-argument is weak. Lastly, the deep-level Tube lines are a modern section of London Underground network, the old section of London Underground network is made of Victorian era routes that were built to a shallow depth of 5-6 metres below ground, thus are called 'Sub-Surface lines, and these trains were built to the same height and width of national rail trains including those in Liverpool. These shallow lines have always had more advanced technology and were of better design even in 1905 when they were electrified compared to what Liverpool had in the same period. The reason why public transport has always been considerably better in London is because London is the economic powerhouse of the U.K., whereas Liverpool is the diametric opposite of being a economic powerhouse, hence why no corporations are willing to invest in Liverpool because those companies won't see a return for their investment.
@@FART-REPELLENT BTW, I am in London. This one must be from Manchester, by his sneers towards Liverpool. It is known they have an obsession with the city 30 miles away. I know how the City & South London railway was built. The Liverpool elevated railway was not built to mainline loading gauge at all. Run a full steam train onto that then it would collapse. The EMUs were built to a light construction as they were mainly on elevated sections. Initially made from wood, and then aluminium. Economics is not your strong point for sure. London is a massive success because on HMG money in mainly infrastructure and basing gvmt departments there. All others do not even figure.
@@johnburns4017 I said nothing that isn't factual about the U.K. economic system, it is a fact that London is the U.K. powerhouse as it generates wealth for the rest of the U.K. too. Secondly, my understanding of the term 'mainline loading gauge' is the track width, as well as the height and width of the trains, national rail trains have a height of 12', and a width of 9', trains of this size operate on the Liverpool's Mersey-Rail.
Nice fusion of and update to the older videos about the early windowless carriages, gatemen, S class stock, and I think I spy snippets from a couple others too. Good work!
Hi there Jago, you missed out the 1959 Tube Stock, seven cars par a train, which was the first Tube Stock to feature unpainted aluminium bodysides and was delivered to the Piccadilly line. During the mid 1970s, the 1959 Tube Stock was replaced by 1973 Tube Stock, six cars per a train, which was specifically built for the Heathrow Airport extension. The 1959 Tube Stock was then cascaded onto the Northern line. You also missed out the similar 1962 Tube Stock, which was eight cars per a train and was introduced onto the Central line. Finally there is the 1995 Tube Stock, which was introduced onto the Northern line and the very similar 1996 Tube Stock, which was introduced onto the Jubilee line. Best wishes and take care. Kind regards, Peter Skuce, St Albans. Hertfordshire.
Never forget that they took The 72TS Round Things from us. As an aside, the 72 Stock doesn’t have cab doors either, since it was made with the same bodyshell design as the 67TS.
The tunnelling shield was invented by Marc Brunel and first used in the construction of the Thames Tunnel, between Wapping and Rotherhithe. Peter Barlow improved it almost out of recognition and held patents for a cylindrical shield but he never constructed a prototype. His pupil, James Henry Greathead improved on Barlow's idea and actually built a shield, which was used to construct the Tower Subway.
One detail I find fascinating is how hanging straps have gone in and out of fashion over the years. Piccadilly Line trains originally had them (well, more of a sprung ball than a strap) but they were removed when the trains were refurbished. By the time the S Stock came along, straps in the traditional style were back. Elizabeth Line trains (basically main line trains fitted out tube-train style) have them too. Some buses have them...and some don't. You'd think a definitive decision would have been made by now about whether straps are a good idea or not, but it seems to be down to which side of the bed the designer got out of that day.
Singapore meanwhile uses trapezoid-shaped grab handles hanging off these straps on its North East Line rolling stock, but when refurbishing the older trainsets (the C751As instead of C751Cs) it replaced them with rubber triangular grab handles nailed onto overhead horizontal metal grab poles, & are harder when pushed longitudinally. So while you're less likely to sway when holding onto these handles when the train accelerates/decelerates, you're also more likely to get a concussion if you knock into them when walking
I was curious as to how some tube trains had those hanging springy things with a ball shape at the bottom end to hold on to when standing all in grey while other tube trains had them all in black. As for windows in tunnels,they're for following the changes in the wires that run along the wall.
I used to like that the old District Line trains had single doors to the Circle Line's double doors. When you were in a rush it saved time not having to check the displays. How did the single door train design come about?
It was thought it would save doorway space on longer distance lines with less need for rapid ingress/egress of passengers at most stations. There was also some Jubilee Line stock with single leaf doors around the same time. In retrospect it was felt to have been a mistake so all later trains were built with double leaf doors again.
@@PaddyWVThe single door concept came about when passenger numbers were declining, plus to save money it was decided that fewer door-engines would be needed for single-leaf doors which only require one door-engine for each door.
I find it interesting that the newer (60s and later?) stock looks altogether less lickable, but if you actually try it, the varnish on the old ones is significantly more disgusting than the modern plastics. I … used to be a small person.
I loved the '20's stock, in particular the '27, according to the Metro-Cammell brass door footplates, on the Bakerloo until the '70's, pure early Art Deco, didn't even mind the fact that they shook, rattled and rolled.
I was wondering if anybody would mention or remember the 1927 pattern. In the early 1980s examples of this could still occasionally be seen in the middle of what was otherwise a 1938-type train; I used to look out for them. They could be recognised at some distance by the two-tier roof with a raised section along the centre; in addition, there were oval windows near the ends. The straps for standing passengers had loops instead of knobs. My favourite feature, however, was the petalled lampshades which would have been perfectly suited to a tea-shop in an Agatha Christie dramatisation.
Modern trains seats even on the Tube are hard even with a cushion, because they aren't sprung like bed mattresses, like older train seats or stuffed with what sofas were stuffed with before the 1970s. I miss decent soft seating and even bus seating is harder now.
Loved this, Jago. My personal favorite from memory, is the old District Line Q stock, with their 3-seat longitudinal "snugs", pendant lights, and that gorgeous inlaid walnut panelling.
Enjoyable, and enlightening; I agree with you that the Tower Subway deserves its place in the history of coaching stock, at least. Maybe the Metropolitan line F-stock deserve a mention - or even their own video?
5:40 I often prefer a 9 stop travel from my town of residence to minus two from work sitting front to direction and do not mind backwards direction when seats aren't free. And then two stops on local metro to station near work with lengthwise seating where I prefer to stand near the doorway as I will be getting off two stops later. I could take the metro 9 stops before and enjoy only 8 stops total to work, but sitting or standing angled to direction really plays up with my back so I generally favour spending the 4-5 minutes or so remaing in my seat for the entire 14 or so stops until teh last two on the metro to work. Another concern is heat, the metro has immense heat compared to conventional electric railroad here, so on hot days and crowded days / pak hours I prefer going to work and home on the slower longer electric trains. I did not actually think much of this until I saw this video and when you talked about this very thing I realised that I am one such person. I do not mind small windows though. Most travels I do have people everywhere blocking most view outside anyway.
Don't forget that the real reason for longitudinal seating on a Tjbe train is somewhere for the wheels and that the seat riser over the bogies is the main structural member,
If you you go to that Tower Subway brick shaft head structure and look across Petty Wales (the name of the street) at, ironically, the Subway restaurant (which I would put money on being there completely coincidentally), you will see a CCTV camera above the front window. I set up that camera only last week (as of the day of this video's release).
One of the reasons for longitudinal seating on deep-level tube trains is that the wheels are actually too big to fit under the floor! The tops of the wheels intrude into the carriage - so longitudinal seats are used to cover these areas. Traditionally, deep-level tube carriages had smaller wheels than main-line or sub-surface stock - the A and C Stocks had 915mm diameter wheels, while the 1956 thru 1983 Stocks had 788mm wheels. However, the D Stock had the same 788mm wheels as the 1973 stock, and the smaller wheels have carried forward onto the S Stock (770mm). These are smaller than most mainline trains, although mainline trains are now trending smaller, possibly to reduce unsprung mass. This contributed to the D Stock being a bit lower above the rail than was traditionally the case, I think to reduce the difference in height between the 1973 Stock and D Stock where they shared platforms. The converted D Stocks such as the Class 230 have some extra packing in the suspension to bring them back up to 'normal' rail height. I actually don't know if this was done on the Island Line's Class 484 - I would think that a lower carriage height would have been better to deal with the lower ceiling in the Ryde St John's Road tunnel. The 1992 Stock (Central, Waterloo & City) wheels are actually smaller (700mm) than the carriage's height above the rail (761mm), but the 2009 Stock (Victoria Line) wheels are back to being bigger (740mm) than the floor height (716mm).
Been inside that City And South London Railway carriage, though "padded cell" was my immediate thought, it comes across to me as more garden shed than tube train personally.
City and South London Stock. From the Padded Cell to Wooden Body with Windows and then Metal Body with Windows. There is still a wooden body with windows around which is 132 owned by the Suburban Electric Railway Association. Also 163 survives as a metal body with windows, this is owned by the LT Musuem.
Didn’t the wooden Metropolitan line carriages last until 1961 on trains serving Aylesbury and Watford? Before then, the locomotive had to be changed between electric and steam at Rickmansworth. I’m just about old enough to have seen them, but the trains didn’t go east of Baker Street outside peak hours. I can hardly believe that I would have needed to open the door to a compartment at, say, Euston Square.
I believe you're talking about the Metropolitan Railway "Dreadnought" stock, and yeah. '61 was the year the line was electrified to Amersham, and new stock was built for said services. It made the loco-hauled trains obsolete. The carriages were out of service by the end of the year, and so too were the "Metro-Vick" electrics that weren't relegated to departmental work. Can't imagine the tank engines lasted much longer It's funny, I got basically all of this from a Railway Roundabout segment in from their 1961 season, and those same Dreadnought coaches were shown the very next year as new stock on the Bluebell Railway
7:22 Ooh - I like this pattern. It reminds me of those three-layer I-talian cookies with raspberry jam that are essentially little cakes since they are cut from a slab and dipped in chocolate. We call them rainbow cookies in the US. Now that I'm writing it allowed it sounds silly. They're not that colorful, nor are they arced, but they are a thing of beauty. The fabric in the previous shot makes me want to throw myself on the tracks - it's worn and sagging and I will not let myself consider how it smells, but it looks like it does.
I think in tunnels the has a lot more noise than the older stock . The wood and formica side panels used deaden the load metalic noises heard in stock in later years
In New York City,the IRT was using Bowling Alley seating,i.e. longitudinal/bench seating,due to the nominal 9 foot wide cars! The BMT/BRT,introduced cross seating on the steels(AB,standards)because the earlier lines were considered suburban! Today the current rolling stock,plus that coming online still has the seating of the past! A most interesting parallel to London!! Thank you,Jago for another sidebar trip,that covers the fanny part of the Underground 🚇 👏! Thank you 😇!
The modern NYC cars have undifferentiated low shallow hard benches, an expression of their contempt for the passengers. Painful for sitting on, good for manspreading or lying down on for a nap. World's worse mass transit seating. An expensive consultancy figured out a better combination seating plan with doors in different places. They were ignored.
@@philipwhiuk The line already has nicely working trains Engineers who manage the trains and repair any faults in the depot say they are very reliable workhorses.
I was literally looking for a video like this about a week ago as i was instrested in seeing just how the tube has evolved but couldnt find good videos on it and now i just saw this new video on it. What a coincidence.
My favourite tube trains were the oddly bell shaped District units, they had such a lovely olde worldey feel to them. The red ones seemed to better than the white or light grey ones but that was prob a kids fancy lol
Not sure if it's true but I heard that the outward curve at the bottom of "bell" shape was added as a psychological effort to make people step back from the platform edges to prevent their feet from being chopped off!
The red ones you mentioned were designated as CO/CP Stock and dated from 1937/38. The Aluminium ones had bodies of identical dimensions as the red ones but with detail differences and were designated as R Stock. I loved them both. As I am a London Underground enthusiast I have a private photo archive of my favourite Underground trains.
04:54 "Will the carriages be seated according to class? I hope they aren't too crowded" 😔... "Oh mother... 😡 Shut up! Don't you understand? There are hundreds of people and not enough seats... Not enough by half"
When you say "definitely Baker Street", I assume you mean "definitely THE NORTH GOWER STREET LOCATION USED TO REPRESENT Baker Street IN THE TV SERIES SHERLOCK." ?
I actually like the longitudinal seats even on the SWR 455 units. When i leave work from Woking station to Wimbledon I head to the longitudinal seats in the rear carriage (also so as to be near the steps at Wimbledon);
It's interesting that in Amsterdam, the M1/2/3/4 and S1/2/3 all had transverse seating. Starting the with the M5, which came into use in 2012, most seats are longitudinal, you can walk the entire six-car train, and it's air conditioned. It looks like they finally got the hint.
@@simonh6371 Could be worse. Could be Glasgow. 🙂 But another defining feature of the M5 metros is that the doors are extra high, so that the Dutch fit through them. As an average height Dutchman, I have to admit that the platforms and the deep-level trains were... interesting.
Meanwhile Singapore, which has used only longitudinal seating on its MRT rolling stock, has gone even further & completely removed seats from some sections of train cars, & sometimes replaced them with ever bigger ceiling-to-floor ads
Fantastic overview there of the interiors, Jago. I still think the most comfortable seats, if not the ride (!) can be found on the elderly 72 stock on the bakerloo.
The Isle of Wight ran refurbished 483 stock until 2021, it was overground but still the perfect upcycle for its purpose and a glimpse of the past quality of the engineering.
Third-Class passenger boarding a new, fully enclosed rail car for the first time: "Well, isn't this posh, it's got a roof, and everything!" Third-Class conductor: "That's right...Now sit down and shut your mouth, you filthy beggar, before I swat you a good one!"
High time the Metropolitan Pullman cars made a comeback. I object to being longitudinally seated with hordes of chimney sweeps.
You do realise that those chimney sweeps have been paid to sit there, to deter you from travelling 3rd class ?
@@quantisedspace7047 But they are so off-putting when one's on the way back from the opera or the Malthusian Society meeting and attempting to partake of that splendid reserve edition Dunning Kruger champagne!
@@fenlinescouser4105 No gentleman ever uses public transport to go the opera.
A point of correction to my Hon Friend. The 1973 stock as built did indeed have transverse seating in the middle of the car. When I was crew on the Piccadilly Line working a night turn we had a few hours in the depot between arriving with one of the last trains and departing with one of the first the following morning. Four of the transverse seat cushions laid in the doorway made a tolerably comfortable bed, err allegedly.
The same with 59 stock on the Bakerloo, not that I'd known much about dossing on trains on our night turns of course ..... lol
🤫
@@SoiBuakhaoRoutemasterbus Picc crews did the same before they passed the 59s to our poor relations on the Bakerloo. Or so I've heard. 🤣
Until you explained it, I never suspected that arch-topped doors served any purpose than to indulge then-contemporary fashion. That's fascinating!
To say that it's fascinating is an exaggeration, a more appropriate word would be 'interesting'
@@FART-REPELLENT Well, I was fascinated
I'm passionate about engineering. To me, any solution that is inexpensive, reliable and not immediately obvious is "fascinating." Of course, there was no need to make the door tops circular, except to serve a need to make the door attractive when closed.
They could have made square tunnels...I know might not have been as strong!
@@ROCKINGMAN Square tunnels at depths of 70' would have taken considerably longer for a tunnelling machine to drill through London Clay than a cylindrical one.
I’m a casual viewer who likes learning about the Tube’s interiors. Also, Geoff did a video on the Tube Interiors as well. The more discourse, the merrier.
@@seanbonellaBoth, both is good
@@seanbonellanot you trying to start drama 🐱
@seanbonella I agree. Used to watch Geoff but has gone downhill in last 6 months.
They're drinking buddies.
@@BritishRacingGreen I'm in :-)) - where and when? 1st rounds on me - hip hip...
It's important to note that the 1973 stock, pre-refurbishment, did still have transverse seating, and that - depending on the way you see the 1986 stock - the 1992 stock was in fact the first modern tube stock with fully longitudinal seating (1986 Green and Red did have fully longitudinal seating too, however Blue did not).
Transverse! Thank you that's the right word. I knew Latitudinal sounded odd!
Another correction to note regarding the 1973 stock is that there's a wider space at all doors specifically to accommodate luggage, not the use of transverse seating as asserted by JH. They also featured 'dual-level' arm rests, something removed in the refurbishment.
One of the reasons for longitudinal seating is to allow the tops of the wheels to poke above the floor (which is why the 72 stock has crossways seats in the middle, but not over the wheels)
I am pleased Jago has explained why he is rounded on the top
It's wild to think that bench seating along the walls and class distinction elimination took many decades to come to fruition. These are such small but simple changes. It doesn't take much to move the seats just 90 degrees.
I know that Stockholm subway has (even mostly I think) seating arranged in the "train" way. The sideway seating is quite uncomfortable (as pointed out in the video) so if you don't really need to cram in five people wide standing (as famously in many Japanese cities) even during rush hour, I believe comfort will trump capacity.
Frankly I am sorry that the modern trains offer no option at all for transverse/sideways seating for fairly long journeys on the District, Central and Piccadilly lines and the Overground, as it offers much better views. The Metropolitan Line and Elizabeth Line do offer a modest amount of transverse seating.
The Paris metro had first and second class until the 1991 :-p.
@@SirKenchalotMarxists? What a very peculiar thing to say. Have you checked under your bed for them recently? 🤣
It seems more likely that the point of an uncomfortable third class was pretty much the same as for the present day uncomfortable economy class in airliners - to encourage those who can afford to to pay more.
Hi Jago - I’d like to see a review of the lighting technology used over time on the underground - or is that too deep a rabbit-hole? I recall trains with real round light bulbs, but 110 volt I think to make them less attractive to being stolen? Of course fluorescent lights, but sometimes fed with from high frequency inverters / motor generators and making a jolly whining noise. They also used to make swirling patterns when they aged that varied with motor loading. And latterly I guess LED lights, including odd colours by the doors etc. There - I’ve almost written the script for you!
No rabbit hole is too deep for our fearless leader !
The same voltage as the Edison screw bulbs that were in Telephone Boxes and BR carriages (90-110v DC) for the same reason.
@@tonys1636 That’s right! Back in the day ES fittings were almost unknown in a domestic setting, everything was Bayonet Cap.
@@tonys1636 Us North Americans and Japanese maybe stole them then.
Well, this was interesting! Very much looking forward to part two in 2183, Jago!
😂😂😂
If anyone's wondering why 2183, I think it's because the Met is 160 years old (1863), he covered 160 years of history. So 160 years from now is 2183. (The Tube will be 320 years old by then; 160*2 = 320.)
I still find the S stock wonderful. The step change from the previous Circle & District sets was immense.
I’m very fond of the A stock, but it can’t be denied that the S is a big step up.
I wonder where they buried the bodies of the staff that were disposed off ?. Great video as always Jago keep digging away for more tube information.
The Tube's full of disused tunnels, Tony .... best not to enquire too closely.
Jago Hazzard is the funniest person on TH-cam. He is the cackle to my belly laugh.
I grew up in North London and had occasion to make frequent trips to Barts Hospital in my early years from about 1956 onwards. Trolley bus (later superseded by Routemasters) to Wood Green and then the Piccadilly Line to Holborn -often fitting in a visit to Bassett Lowke's-shop on the way to the hospital. The tube trains must have been 1920's or 1930's stock. They were wonderful with lots of wood. I remember being fascinated by how the doors slid into the carriage structure as they opened.
Interesting. My dad used trolley buses in the Twickenham area when he was a student in London between 1957 and 1960.
I love the brown wooden and green patterned seats.❤
‘Transverse’ seating is the word you’re searching for!
Not transgender ? !!
Nice video Jago... My personal favourite interior design on the Underground was the old Metropolitan A-Stock; the pre-refurbishment style with early 1960s high-backed seats (black/grey/red moquette)- and of course luggage racks! Miss those old, cosy styles....
I commuted between Liverpool Street and Great Portland Road when they switched over from the A stock to the modern trains, and I was *not* sorry to see the old trains go. They were awful during the rush hour, with their layout making it particularly difficult to get off. From what I can remember, they were also uncomfortable in (a) cold and (b) hot weather.
6:22 Apparently four 1935 stock trains were made, 3 with the streamlined ends and the fourth with the production style flat ends.
As a londoner i’ve always wondered why some trains have seats along the wall and why some have them facing each other. This has been a fascinating insight into how we’ve got where we are. Now when I’m on my hour long Overground trip from one end of the line to the other I’ll be thinking about the “intended user” making a short journey as I’m jostled from side to side.
I can't wait for Part 2!
me neither, but i can't quite understand why Mr Hazzard chose to use decimal time, will it be posted about five to ten ?
@@Satters It was, I suspect, a reference to it being 160 years since the first section of the Met was opened. 2183 is in another 160 years time.
"In 1920, the next big thing arrived on the piccadilly line", I half expected you to follow with "these are the trains that operate to this day on the Bakerloo line with only minor changes"
I know why you were hired to chase that man: he stole your mentions of the A, C, and D stock from the subsurface lines! :) (I kid. I love seeing this kind of thorough but quick evolution of how the Tube stock came to be.) Thanks again, Jago!
Jago, my man, how about a vid on platform vending machines and why it was always pot luck whether you got your chocolate coated rasins, or not?
Urgh, I remember those - the amount of extra revenue gleaned from swallowed change made Thames Water look like naive amateurs...
I think the interiors with the lovely curved partitions at 5:52 were actually from a refurbished version of those cars (but I could be wrong).
Excellent stuff. Although a minor correction is in order: the ‘72 stock does not feature cab doors, but, as you said, the ‘73 does
Hi Jago from Spain. My earliest (1957) use of the Metropolitan line used individual compartments with slam doors and it was a real cram-in when there was a match on at Wembley.
8:18 clearly shows why precision is necessary for accessibility.
Well spotted!
The final bit, filming the landscape as the train goes by is oddly satisfying IMO.
When my family moved to Croxley in 1957, the Metropolitan line trains running in a cutting at the bottom of our garden were wooden, brown, slam-door compartmented trains, though I cannot remember ever travelling on one. I was still at school in London and travelled daily on the now-closed Croxley line via Watford High Street to Willesden Junction. By the time I started commuting into London on the Metropolitan line in 1963, these old carriages had been replaced with more modern all-aluminium stock.
The first ever EMUs with motors under the floors were the three car Liverpool Overhead trains of 1892. All underground trains since are based on them.
That was easy to achieve because the Liverpool trains were of mainline height and width; unlike Tube Stock trains which are 30" lower in height, and a floor height that is 20" lower than 1892 Liverpool trains, thus nothing to do with Liverpudlians being better engineers
@@FART-REPELLENT
It has a lot to do with Liverpolitans being better engineers. Look at the City and South London trains. They had an electric *loco!* The City & South London was an all new railway. The train design was not constrained it was a blank sheet design. The Liverpool trains were a world away from them. They look like modern trains they were so advanced. *The world's first EMUs.*
If London was building a new elevated electric railway, they would have had electric locos. To their credit, the Liverpolitans stood outside the box then thought. They even had a drivers window arranged to look back down the side of the train/platform. Simple. Brilliant. They even had the first ever signal lights.
The Overhead trains also ran in tunnel. Dingle Station is underground.
You sound bitter and twisted. Must be a Chelsea fan.
@@johnburns4017 The only reason why the Liverpool elevated railway trains looked more modern than the City & South London Railway trains is because the railway in Liverpool was built to a mainline loading gauge; as it was built above ground in open-air it was considerably cheaper to build. Whereas tunnelling shields used for drilling deep below ground were considerably more expensive as the technology was new, and so the larger the diameter of tunnels to be built the more expensive the railway, hence why it was decided that the tunnels for the C & SLR should be built to a small diameter to reduce costs, subsequently this cost saving exercise resulted in severe restrictions on the design of C&SLR; therefore your counter-argument is weak. Lastly, the deep-level Tube lines are a modern section of London Underground network, the old section of London Underground network is made of Victorian era routes that were built to a shallow depth of 5-6 metres below ground, thus are called 'Sub-Surface lines, and these trains were built to the same height and width of national rail trains including those in Liverpool. These shallow lines have always had more advanced technology and were of better design even in 1905 when they were electrified compared to what Liverpool had in the same period. The reason why public transport has always been considerably better in London is because London is the economic powerhouse of the U.K., whereas Liverpool is the diametric opposite of being a economic powerhouse, hence why no corporations are willing to invest in Liverpool because those companies won't see a return for their investment.
@@FART-REPELLENT
BTW, I am in London. This one must be from Manchester, by his sneers towards Liverpool. It is known they have an obsession with the city 30 miles away.
I know how the City & South London railway was built.
The Liverpool elevated railway was not built to mainline loading gauge at all. Run a full steam train onto that then it would collapse. The EMUs were built to a light construction as they were mainly on elevated sections. Initially made from wood, and then aluminium.
Economics is not your strong point for sure. London is a massive success because on HMG money in mainly infrastructure and basing gvmt departments there. All others do not even figure.
@@johnburns4017 I said nothing that isn't factual about the U.K. economic system, it is a fact that London is the U.K. powerhouse as it generates wealth for the rest of the U.K. too. Secondly, my understanding of the term 'mainline loading gauge' is the track width, as well as the height and width of the trains, national rail trains have a height of 12', and a width of 9', trains of this size operate on the Liverpool's Mersey-Rail.
Nice fusion of and update to the older videos about the early windowless carriages, gatemen, S class stock, and I think I spy snippets from a couple others too. Good work!
Very much looking forward to the promised part 2
Hi there Jago, you missed out the 1959 Tube Stock, seven cars par a train, which was the first Tube Stock to feature unpainted aluminium bodysides and was delivered to the Piccadilly line. During the mid 1970s, the 1959 Tube Stock was replaced by 1973 Tube Stock, six cars per a train, which was specifically built for the Heathrow Airport extension. The 1959 Tube Stock was then cascaded onto the Northern line. You also missed out the similar 1962 Tube Stock, which was eight cars per a train and was introduced onto the Central line.
Finally there is the 1995 Tube Stock, which was introduced onto the Northern line and the very similar 1996 Tube Stock, which was introduced onto the Jubilee line.
Best wishes and take care. Kind regards, Peter Skuce, St Albans. Hertfordshire.
The video clearly should have been twice as long. Seriously.
Never forget that they took The 72TS Round Things from us.
As an aside, the 72 Stock doesn’t have cab doors either, since it was made with the same bodyshell design as the 67TS.
The tunnelling shield was invented by Marc Brunel and first used in the construction of the Thames Tunnel, between Wapping and Rotherhithe. Peter Barlow improved it almost out of recognition and held patents for a cylindrical shield but he never constructed a prototype. His pupil, James Henry Greathead improved on Barlow's idea and actually built a shield, which was used to construct the Tower Subway.
honestly, the earlier trains thqt looked like coaches look really comftable!
One detail I find fascinating is how hanging straps have gone in and out of fashion over the years. Piccadilly Line trains originally had them (well, more of a sprung ball than a strap) but they were removed when the trains were refurbished. By the time the S Stock came along, straps in the traditional style were back. Elizabeth Line trains (basically main line trains fitted out tube-train style) have them too. Some buses have them...and some don't. You'd think a definitive decision would have been made by now about whether straps are a good idea or not, but it seems to be down to which side of the bed the designer got out of that day.
Singapore meanwhile uses trapezoid-shaped grab handles hanging off these straps on its North East Line rolling stock, but when refurbishing the older trainsets (the C751As instead of C751Cs) it replaced them with rubber triangular grab handles nailed onto overhead horizontal metal grab poles, & are harder when pushed longitudinally. So while you're less likely to sway when holding onto these handles when the train accelerates/decelerates, you're also more likely to get a concussion if you knock into them when walking
I was curious as to how some tube trains had those hanging springy things with a ball shape at the bottom end to hold on to when standing all in grey while other tube trains had them all in black. As for windows in tunnels,they're for following the changes in the wires that run along the wall.
I used to love the old carriages on the East london line with the high back chairs.
07:04 Actually, the unrefurbished 1973 stock had traverse seating. It was only converted to longitudinal during the refurbishment in the late 1990s.
I used to like that the old District Line trains had single doors to the Circle Line's double doors. When you were in a rush it saved time not having to check the displays.
How did the single door train design come about?
It was thought it would save doorway space on longer distance lines with less need for rapid ingress/egress of passengers at most stations. There was also some Jubilee Line stock with single leaf doors around the same time. In retrospect it was felt to have been a mistake so all later trains were built with double leaf doors again.
Thank you! 👍
@@PaddyWVThe single door concept came about when passenger numbers were declining, plus to save money it was decided that fewer door-engines would be needed for single-leaf doors which only require one door-engine for each door.
@@FART-REPELLENT Ah! That old devil called "Economy Cuts"!
6:50. 72 stock does not have cab side doors. The cab access on 72 stock is through the passenger area as with the 67 stock.
Fascinating, Jago.
I find it interesting that the newer (60s and later?) stock looks altogether less lickable, but if you actually try it, the varnish on the old ones is significantly more disgusting than the modern plastics.
I … used to be a small person.
Can't wait for the follow up (part two) I'll only be 126 !!
I loved the '20's stock, in particular the '27, according to the Metro-Cammell brass door footplates, on the Bakerloo until the '70's, pure early Art Deco, didn't even mind the fact that they shook, rattled and rolled.
I was wondering if anybody would mention or remember the 1927 pattern. In the early 1980s examples of this could still occasionally be seen in the middle of what was otherwise a 1938-type train; I used to look out for them. They could be recognised at some distance by the two-tier roof with a raised section along the centre; in addition, there were oval windows near the ends. The straps for standing passengers had loops instead of knobs. My favourite feature, however, was the petalled lampshades which would have been perfectly suited to a tea-shop in an Agatha Christie dramatisation.
Went to the TFL miseum on Tuesday 11 July for the 1st time. Got excited when i saw the Charles Tyson Yerkes info.
An evolutionary video is far preferable to a revolutionary one, which would just go round and round in circles.
That must be why the Circle line no longer does.
Talkina bout a revolusha - ah ah on....
@@emjayay The Beatles.
The only good place for a revolutionary video is Tooting Broadway.
Splendid stiff, Jago. 👏🏾 Well looking forward to the second part to this in 2183 👍🏾👍🏾
Modern trains seats even on the Tube are hard even with a cushion, because they aren't sprung like bed mattresses, like older train seats or stuffed with what sofas were stuffed with before the 1970s. I miss decent soft seating and even bus seating is harder now.
Loved this, Jago.
My personal favorite from memory, is the old District Line Q stock, with their 3-seat longitudinal "snugs", pendant lights, and that gorgeous inlaid walnut panelling.
I liked the old slam doors on the Met line, wonderful solid carpentry work, and how they used to roar in the tunnels! 😆🧐
Enjoyable, and enlightening; I agree with you that the Tower Subway deserves its place in the history of coaching stock, at least. Maybe the Metropolitan line F-stock deserve a mention - or even their own video?
5:40 I often prefer a 9 stop travel from my town of residence to minus two from work sitting front to direction and do not mind backwards direction when seats aren't free. And then two stops on local metro to station near work with lengthwise seating where I prefer to stand near the doorway as I will be getting off two stops later. I could take the metro 9 stops before and enjoy only 8 stops total to work, but sitting or standing angled to direction really plays up with my back so I generally favour spending the 4-5 minutes or so remaing in my seat for the entire 14 or so stops until teh last two on the metro to work. Another concern is heat, the metro has immense heat compared to conventional electric railroad here, so on hot days and crowded days / pak hours I prefer going to work and home on the slower longer electric trains.
I did not actually think much of this until I saw this video and when you talked about this very thing I realised that I am one such person. I do not mind small windows though. Most travels I do have people everywhere blocking most view outside anyway.
many would say your brain is yet to evolve past that of a common bacterium Jago.
Don’t hate me ‘cause you ain’t me, dogg.
I miss the dangling handle things to hold onto.
Looking forward to part 2....
There was apparently an initiative at the beginning of WW2 to use them as coshes by commandos…
@@bob_the_bomb4508 I can imagine them being effective. They had some weight to them.
Can't wait for part 2
Don't forget that the real reason for longitudinal seating on a Tjbe train is somewhere for the wheels and that the seat riser over the bogies is the main structural member,
If you you go to that Tower Subway brick shaft head structure and look across Petty Wales (the name of the street) at, ironically, the Subway restaurant (which I would put money on being there completely coincidentally), you will see a CCTV camera above the front window. I set up that camera only last week (as of the day of this video's release).
Hi Jago. It would be great if you would do a similar video in more depth for each line! And that's the only sponsor video I never skipped through ;)
Travelling sideways over any distance today is no more fun than it was in Victorian times.
It figures you would have an office on Baker Street, it is on the Bakerloo line.😊 Yes i got the actual reference.😊
Jago 'Sherlock' Hazzard Holmes
I shall be waiting for your 2083 update. Wheels! We don't need stinking wheels.
Can't wait for 2183!
One of the reasons for longitudinal seating on deep-level tube trains is that the wheels are actually too big to fit under the floor! The tops of the wheels intrude into the carriage - so longitudinal seats are used to cover these areas.
Traditionally, deep-level tube carriages had smaller wheels than main-line or sub-surface stock - the A and C Stocks had 915mm diameter wheels, while the 1956 thru 1983 Stocks had 788mm wheels. However, the D Stock had the same 788mm wheels as the 1973 stock, and the smaller wheels have carried forward onto the S Stock (770mm). These are smaller than most mainline trains, although mainline trains are now trending smaller, possibly to reduce unsprung mass.
This contributed to the D Stock being a bit lower above the rail than was traditionally the case, I think to reduce the difference in height between the 1973 Stock and D Stock where they shared platforms. The converted D Stocks such as the Class 230 have some extra packing in the suspension to bring them back up to 'normal' rail height. I actually don't know if this was done on the Island Line's Class 484 - I would think that a lower carriage height would have been better to deal with the lower ceiling in the Ryde St John's Road tunnel.
The 1992 Stock (Central, Waterloo & City) wheels are actually smaller (700mm) than the carriage's height above the rail (761mm), but the 2009 Stock (Victoria Line) wheels are back to being bigger (740mm) than the floor height (716mm).
The Southern Region EMUs I went to school on in the 50s, were all but identical to those early Metropolitan coaches.
Been inside that City And South London Railway carriage, though "padded cell" was my immediate thought, it comes across to me as more garden shed than tube train personally.
If I hadn't allready (quite a long ago) I would had subscribed to not miss part 2 in 2183. Now I can sit here and wait for it patiently.
City and South London Stock. From the Padded Cell to Wooden Body with Windows and then Metal Body with Windows. There is still a wooden body with windows around which is 132 owned by the Suburban Electric Railway Association. Also 163 survives as a metal body with windows, this is owned by the LT Musuem.
I cannot wait for part 2! 😜🤣🤣🤣🤣
Didn’t the wooden Metropolitan line carriages last until 1961 on trains serving Aylesbury and Watford? Before then, the locomotive had to be changed between electric and steam at Rickmansworth.
I’m just about old enough to have seen them, but the trains didn’t go east of Baker Street outside peak hours. I can hardly believe that I would have needed to open the door to a compartment at, say, Euston Square.
I believe you're talking about the Metropolitan Railway "Dreadnought" stock, and yeah. '61 was the year the line was electrified to Amersham, and new stock was built for said services. It made the loco-hauled trains obsolete. The carriages were out of service by the end of the year, and so too were the "Metro-Vick" electrics that weren't relegated to departmental work. Can't imagine the tank engines lasted much longer
It's funny, I got basically all of this from a Railway Roundabout segment in from their 1961 season, and those same Dreadnought coaches were shown the very next year as new stock on the Bluebell Railway
7:22 Ooh - I like this pattern. It reminds me of those three-layer I-talian cookies with raspberry jam that are essentially little cakes since they are cut from a slab and dipped in chocolate. We call them rainbow cookies in the US. Now that I'm writing it allowed it sounds silly. They're not that colorful, nor are they arced, but they are a thing of beauty. The fabric in the previous shot makes me want to throw myself on the tracks - it's worn and sagging and I will not let myself consider how it smells, but it looks like it does.
Great summery, I cant wait for part 2 in 2183!
My favourite stock to travel in was 1938 , 1956 1962 and A 60 stock
I think in tunnels the has a lot more noise than the older stock . The wood and formica side panels used deaden the load metalic noises heard in stock in later years
"The Metropolitan saw itself as a mainline railway with an underground section"... bit like the Elizabeth Line then
That is the Elizabeth line in a nutshell, In a TFL meeting, it was compared to the RER in Paris, (a commuter train I have little knowledge of.)
In New York City,the IRT was using Bowling Alley seating,i.e. longitudinal/bench seating,due to the nominal 9 foot wide cars! The BMT/BRT,introduced cross seating on the steels(AB,standards)because the earlier lines were considered suburban! Today the current rolling stock,plus that coming online still has the seating of the past! A most interesting parallel to London!! Thank you,Jago for another sidebar trip,that covers the fanny part of the Underground 🚇 👏! Thank you 😇!
The modern NYC cars have undifferentiated low shallow hard benches, an expression of their contempt for the passengers. Painful for sitting on, good for manspreading or lying down on for a nap. World's worse mass transit seating. An expensive consultancy figured out a better combination seating plan with doors in different places. They were ignored.
8:37 I remember seeing an ad for this.
Absoluetly love the 72 stock, its just those fantastic bloody seats which almost make me sad about the NTFL replacments
Don't worry you have a good 10 years to ride the 72 stock
You can use them in the Transport Museum, I'd rather the line got newer trains
@@philipwhiuk The line already has nicely working trains
Engineers who manage the trains and repair any faults in the depot say they are very reliable workhorses.
@@OffTheRailsUK And that's straight from the work horses mouth.
The S8 Stock sets have received much positive feedback for the provision of transverse seating in these sets on the longer runs on the Metropolitan.
I was literally looking for a video like this about a week ago as i was instrested in seeing just how the tube has evolved but couldnt find good videos on it and now i just saw this new video on it. What a coincidence.
This channel has been an awful lot of fun so far, thanks ADHD :D
Speedys on Gower Street North! Many a lunch was had by myself between lectures here in the 00s.
I didn't know that about the Hamstead line, wanting it to go up to Luton but as you said now we have the thameslink line which does go to Luton.
My favourite tube trains were the oddly bell shaped District units, they had such a lovely olde worldey feel to them. The red ones seemed to better than the white or light grey ones but that was prob a kids fancy lol
Not sure if it's true but I heard that the outward curve at the bottom of "bell" shape was added as a psychological effort to make people step back from the platform edges to prevent their feet from being chopped off!
The red ones you mentioned were designated as CO/CP Stock and dated from 1937/38. The Aluminium ones had bodies of identical dimensions as the red ones but with detail differences and were designated as R Stock. I loved them both. As I am a London Underground enthusiast I have a private photo archive of my favourite Underground trains.
04:54 "Will the carriages be seated according to class? I hope they aren't too crowded" 😔... "Oh mother... 😡 Shut up! Don't you understand? There are hundreds of people and not enough seats... Not enough by half"
You forget to mention when referencing the dalliance with driverless trains the 2020 trial with passengerless trains. That too never really caught on.
So, we had sliding doors in the 1920s, but mainline sliding door stock only started coming about in the late 70s, early 80s? What took them so long?
Earlier still I believe. The Liverpool electric railway was the first
Probably the rail unions.
My favourites are the Standard stock, (which I can just remember) and the 1938 stock.
I absolutely loved the ambience of the Standard Tube Stock train interiors with their dim tungsten lighting.
When you say "definitely Baker Street", I assume you mean "definitely THE NORTH GOWER STREET LOCATION USED TO REPRESENT Baker Street IN THE TV SERIES SHERLOCK." ?
Piccadilly 1973 Stock did have transverse seats when introduced
I miss the cross seating and wooden interior and floors and the reassuring rolling and clunk of the doors closing.
I actually like the longitudinal seats even on the SWR 455 units. When i leave work from Woking station to Wimbledon I head to the longitudinal seats in the rear carriage (also so as to be near the steps at Wimbledon);
It's interesting that in Amsterdam, the M1/2/3/4 and S1/2/3 all had transverse seating. Starting the with the M5, which came into use in 2012, most seats are longitudinal, you can walk the entire six-car train, and it's air conditioned. It looks like they finally got the hint.
Having lived in Amsterdam over a decade it was always a bit of a shock coming back and travelling on the dolls house tube carriages.
@@simonh6371 Could be worse. Could be Glasgow. 🙂 But another defining feature of the M5 metros is that the doors are extra high, so that the Dutch fit through them.
As an average height Dutchman, I have to admit that the platforms and the deep-level trains were... interesting.
Meanwhile Singapore, which has used only longitudinal seating on its MRT rolling stock, has gone even further & completely removed seats from some sections of train cars, & sometimes replaced them with ever bigger ceiling-to-floor ads
A nice potted history of tube trains.
Fantastic overview there of the interiors, Jago. I still think the most comfortable seats, if not the ride (!) can be found on the elderly 72 stock on the bakerloo.
Jago, please do a video about historical pie and mash shops
Pure coincidence that the algorithm recommended an interview with Richard Dawkins immediately after a video with "Evolution" in the title?
The Isle of Wight ran refurbished 483 stock until 2021, it was overground but still the perfect upcycle for its purpose and a glimpse of the past quality of the engineering.
Third-Class passenger boarding a new, fully enclosed rail car for the first time: "Well, isn't this posh, it's got a roof, and everything!"
Third-Class conductor: "That's right...Now sit down and shut your mouth, you filthy beggar, before I swat you a good one!"
1:10 Please let's not give SouthWestern Railways any more ideas for improvements, eh?
Looking forward to part two in 2083. Hmm it'll be just the thing to celebrate my 120th birthday!!