All 6 string SOLAR guitars, all passive Solar Duncans, all evertune bridges: 25.5" (E and C# standard) 27" (for G# standard)) 29" (for F# standard / Drop E) Custom singles strings on the baritones to fit my needs. I always tend to favor string tension and use bigger strings on all my guitars relative to the average player.
@@corvuscorax9265 if they like the tone and feel, go for it! Some people like floppy, or strings that go real sharp when you hit em hard, I don't, but it can sound good if done right, especially for certain kinds of doom
As a childhood classically trained piano player who used to "noodle" around on guitar, I decided to get back into guitar after 20 years. I bought my 1st baritone guitar (a Danelectro 29.75 inch) this week which prompted the question as to why baritone guitars vary so much in length. Your explanation with the grand piano was exactly what I needed. Likely, my next purchase will be a baritone 7 string. I need them chugs but also love the clarity.
For the multi-scale neck, they can be made with a different zero position where the fret is straight across. So that's another consideration with those.
Very informative video. Thank you. This illuminated a lot of tonal qualities that Sunn O))), Melvins and a lot of other doom bands get. A lot of those bands use drop A on 24.75" scale guitars and I think beyond the obvious factor of using really dry tube amps pushed to their very limits to get that thick sludgy sound, the shorter scale of their instruments contribute to that fuzzy wall of sound.
Playing guitars with different scale lengths and using different string gauges has made me lust for a concert grand piano since I can finally appreciate its qualities
I follow the logic, but the tension on a standard Fender/Gibson applied to a 30” scale length invites problems. A longer string has more excursion because of its length than a shorter one will at the same tension which invites fret buzz unless you compensate in some way - the best way is higher tension than the short scale length sports. In the end you can use thinner strings to play the same pitches, but the differences aren’t as dramatic as you might think.
Good points. I have kept the tension within 2 lbs of each other and haven't had big fret buzz problems, but the longer scales have slightly higher action. The baritone also had a number of issues with the neck, so reducing buzz on that has been a challenge, but doable. I haven't tried to measure the travel of the strings, but you can expect a different setup. I don't think you'd see much benefit until you get into lower tunings, B and below, but I do like the tone of the longer scales at low A more than the 26.5"!
What you could do to test one string, is to get the multiscale 8 string and put three exact same gauge and tune the same pitch on the 25,5" slot, another one around 26,5" and 27", this would be more reliable and fair
This could only be really comparable if used the same kind of pickups and similar guitar bodies (same wood) with new strings sets of the same brand. Otherwise is just speculation. Also what really matter is how it feels, not just how it sounds
So you're a home studio nerd who likes playing in drop A with a background in piano? I know there was a reason I liked this channel 😉I think all the guitar tones are pretty good but the Jazz Master is noticeably bright and obviously had the best pitch stability in the open note test. I have Schecter Elite 7 which goes to 27" which does pretty well in drop A but occasionally hear the sharpness on the open string. Also, there are different amounts of "fanning" you can have on your neck- I think multiscales are great because you keep the high string from sounding thin and tinny (not everything's about chugs!).
Yes lol The extra brightness of the Jazzmaster is largely due to a 1M pot rather than normal 500k, though the strings and scale length contribute to that too. It definitely stands out amongst my other guitars in tone. Multiscale is cool too and has its pros and cons, though for recording purposes, nothing wrong with just having a longer scale guitar for rhythms and a normal scale for leads!
i really like the 26.5" scale. Just seems to have more bite and punch to it. Ive been playing forever but never really put a lot of thought into scale length until the last couple of years. I have a typical 25.5" scale guitar, and an odd ball 25.75" which i seem to play most often. But Ive been looking at schecter 7-8 string guitars, they play awesome. I think a few come in the 26.5" scale and longer scales. Decisions Decisions Lol This video was really helpful, thanks!
I've always tended to play low tunings (A#std and Bstd most of all). I had a 28 and 5/8 inch scale neck-through baritone which sounded amazingly, I would say perfectly (for me at least), even in dropG#, but I sold it (I was young and dumb). Since then I've been trying to achieve that tone with standard scale instruments. I've tried different gauges, I've calculated the tension to match that baritone with heavier gauge strings - I was disappointed with the sound every time. I was surprised, just how bad (to my ears) thicker strings were sounding. I thought: "Oh maybe it's the guitar, or pickups, because, look, it's the same tension! It couldn't be just because the strings just a bit thicker!" But I've tried so much guitars and pickups - and it was never there. I finally realized: the gauges and scale matter ALOT. And after many years of searching and wandering I think it's time for me to go baritone again and your video just got me even more convinced. With the single note comparison between 26.5" and 30" I can clearly hear what I've always couldn't stand with my guitars when I tried .060 gauge for an A# on the standard scale - that "rubberish" feel that you can hear on a 26.5" example, when the note initially goes high and then it drifts lower and lower, like the string is being loosen. THAT's what has always been annoying for me. It might work for some specific genres and scenarios of course, but not for me.
Sure! It's not ideal, but it will work. It would sound better on a longer scale, but I think there's even some doom bands going down to A on 24.75" gibson scale guitars. My 7 string is drop A at 26.5" and I found that to be the best tuning for that length.
How does that jazzmaster compare in terms of comfortability? I sit my guitar in my right leg and I have only tried that body style once but I remember it moving my picking hand in a good way
I typically play in a classical position, and I have no complaints, it's a pretty normal shape to me. I did play in the standard position in this video, but that was just to get that long neck in the shot better haha
I have hybrid bass/guitar 8-string that I modded. It has an unusual tuning but one string is A1 and I'm running a .90 from Stringjoy. That only gets me to ~32 lbs of tension. Actual basses are running 40-45+ lbs of tension. So far I've found 32ish to be adequate to get punchy sound that approaches a real bass. For my purposes, the idea of using something in the .60s is ridiculous. But I fully appreciate I have different goals. My instrument isn't an "extended range guitar". It's shooting for a being able to play a bass part and a chordal/melodic part at the same time. So I really want the bass side to sound as P-bassy as possible.
Whatever gets you the sound you want! Thinner strings have more brightness and bite for more "guitar" tones and thicker strings will be darker and fatter like a bass
The theoretical optimal would probably be something custom, but either fender scale 25.5" or the 26.5" of many 7 strings work well. I've had good results on a gibson 24.75" scale too, but I'd go for longer if possible
Hey I'm building a guitar it's 25.5 in but the fingerboard is around 4in longer can I add more frets than the 20 required in a 25.5 in .? Does that make any sense?
I think you might be confusing fret count and scale length. Scale length is measured from the bridge to the nut. A longer scale means wider spaced frets, but any scale length can have any number of frets
Dude! Glad to hear someone actually saying something like "27.7 is good for G seven string". Kudos! Some of my observations: I play M80M in F standard mostly. But I already don't like that much how it sounds and feels in E or D# with 29.4 inches. Too dark, too muddy. With F standard you can make the bass octave lower and it'll sound cool because guitar still maintains the "brightness". But E or D# you have to support with the bass in unison, otherwise it's not the great. Regarding mutliscale - I actually do prefer bass with a mutliscale. Mine has 3 inches difference between 5 and 1. But I got used to it in like couple of hours. Not sure about guitar tho. I also agree that at 29+ inches guitar actually feels not really like a guitar but a bit like a different instrument. And as a Bassist I love that! Much more fun then a regular guitar!
I think multiscale bass actually makes a lot of sense, since you rarely play a ton of chords, and when I do, it's never more that 3 note chords on the top strings. On guitar, it's harder to play barre chords on the first few frets and the bridge throws off my palm muting some. I don't find a 34" normal scale too much, so 27.5" or more is no problem. I still like the schecter a lot though, I just kinda wish it wasn't multiscale, even though that was a big reason I bought it lol. I tried some new strings on the baritone, and planned on taking it down to double drop E, but I'm liking D# or D even more tone wise, too much tension that low and it sounds too much like a bass, it kinda needs some slack. I'll probably just record bass at the same octave with it. I'm not sure my 5 string with even a huge .145 low string will do all the way down to D without sounding awful, but I can try!
@@NickLeonard I have 37 inches on 5 string of my bass and 170 gauge. It works ok in F. (I also played in F using 130 - tone is better, but with my picking it is really hard to control this thing - it bounces all over the place ) But I also played bass for a band which uses 8 string drop D# a lot and after that experience I personally would not recommend dropping the bass lower then F. Even with 170 and 37 inches. Even in F it’s kinda questionable, but works really good with a decent 8 string. I don’t think it’s even the problem of gauges or scales at this point. It plays ok. But the notes are not really audible at this point :D Agreed that for bass multiscale makes a lot of sense! Never got a chance to try an 8 string that has multiscale. Tried a seven string and it was ok. I was thinking about 8 string with 28-30 multiscale, but you kinda confirm my fears about such an instrument. Meshuggah signature still the best choice I guess.
@@raljarn I think there's no real need to always go an octave below the guitars, if you really want the sub octave, you could use an octaver or pitch shifter in combination, but I think distorted bass sounds better at the same octave as guitars, and I've never really loved adding in the sub octave with an octaver. You don't need it for the amount of bass in the mix or anything, so it's just a matter of tone, and I think it's really hard to get a good tone that low. You end up lower than a piano on strings shorter than a small upright, which always sound bad even at much higher tension than you could play on a bass.
@@NickLeonard this is more of a taste thing. And I really don’t like playing bass in F same octave as guitar. Too tight, to high. I also don’t like the sound of octavers or pitchshifters. Distorted Dingwall in low F has a super great tone tho.
I'd like to try one, but I've never played one. I just use hardtails now, but hopefully I can spend some time with one before deciding if I want to buy one.
@@NickLeonard I do drop A on 25.5 and the lowest string doesn’t warble at all. You have adjustability for how much the spring tension will correct. It’s truly amazing. I wouldn’t want to share the secrets but I would feel bad if I didn’t after learning so much from this video you made
You say that "scale is the distance between nut and bridge" Do you actually mean between nut and saddle? Many sites, including Martin, say measure from nut to center of 12th fret then double that measurement to get scale length? My epiphone measures 12-3/8 to center of 12th fret, so L=24-3/4, but when I measure from nut to saddle = 25.5 😮 ??? So which one is the 'correct' scale length ?
@@titusrider7948 I just remeasured a few to be sure, I've got a Epi LP here, it's 24.75" from the edge of the nut (fretboard side) to the shortest possible saddle position, though the total saddle adjustment range is only about 1/4" measuring from nut to the 12 fret (on the fret) is half that, give or take a bit for exact saddle position what model do you have?
@@NickLeonard Thanks for checking Nick. I thought the measurement should be to the 12th fret bar, that makes sense to me. Many "expert" sites say to middle of fret but that doesn't make sense. It's an original Gibson epi FT550, early 70's, it's gorgeous, the real deal, I bought new 50 years ago
@@NickLeonard yeah, for drop C I'm already at like a .58 and it's still feeling pretty slinky dinky! I have a tendency to like slightly shorter scale lengths tonally for chuggy metal stuff. I also prefer between 27 and 28" scale for my low F, as anything longer than that starts sounding TOO clear and nice, while not being enough to get bigger strings and lower tunings to sound good. I'm having a 34" scale baritone made by converting a bass for my super low tunings :p
As an informal survey, comment below what scale length(s) you use!
27,5'
What about all the b standard doom guys using Gibson scale? Logic would suggest to use the fender scale at least but no….
All 6 string SOLAR guitars, all passive Solar Duncans, all evertune bridges:
25.5" (E and C# standard)
27" (for G# standard))
29" (for F# standard / Drop E)
Custom singles strings on the baritones to fit my needs. I always tend to favor string tension and use bigger strings on all my guitars relative to the average player.
@@corvuscorax9265 if they like the tone and feel, go for it! Some people like floppy, or strings that go real sharp when you hit em hard, I don't, but it can sound good if done right, especially for certain kinds of doom
25.5 and 24.75
Once I bought a baritone, I never went back. My shortest guitar is 26.5" these days.
As a childhood classically trained piano player who used to "noodle" around on guitar, I decided to get back into guitar after 20 years. I bought my 1st baritone guitar (a Danelectro 29.75 inch) this week which prompted the question as to why baritone guitars vary so much in length. Your explanation with the grand piano was exactly what I needed.
Likely, my next purchase will be a baritone 7 string. I need them chugs but also love the clarity.
For the multi-scale neck, they can be made with a different zero position where the fret is straight across. So that's another consideration with those.
Very informative video. Thank you. This illuminated a lot of tonal qualities that Sunn O))), Melvins and a lot of other doom bands get. A lot of those bands use drop A on 24.75" scale guitars and I think beyond the obvious factor of using really dry tube amps pushed to their very limits to get that thick sludgy sound, the shorter scale of their instruments contribute to that fuzzy wall of sound.
Playing guitars with different scale lengths and using different string gauges has made me lust for a concert grand piano since I can finally appreciate its qualities
start saving up!
I follow the logic, but the tension on a standard Fender/Gibson applied to a 30” scale length invites problems. A longer string has more excursion because of its length than a shorter one will at the same tension which invites fret buzz unless you compensate in some way - the best way is higher tension than the short scale length sports.
In the end you can use thinner strings to play the same pitches, but the differences aren’t as dramatic as you might think.
Good points. I have kept the tension within 2 lbs of each other and haven't had big fret buzz problems, but the longer scales have slightly higher action. The baritone also had a number of issues with the neck, so reducing buzz on that has been a challenge, but doable. I haven't tried to measure the travel of the strings, but you can expect a different setup. I don't think you'd see much benefit until you get into lower tunings, B and below, but I do like the tone of the longer scales at low A more than the 26.5"!
True. In the end, you end up using thicker strings anyway because of strings wobble in long scale guitars.
What you could do to test one string, is to get the multiscale 8 string and put three exact same gauge and tune the same pitch on the 25,5" slot, another one around 26,5" and 27", this would be more reliable and fair
That would require making a custom nut just for that test though
Damn! That baritone and omen elite😅 sound close but the baritone sounds more dynamic with more attack and energetic energy.
This could only be really comparable if used the same kind of pickups and similar guitar bodies (same wood) with new strings sets of the same brand. Otherwise is just speculation. Also what really matter is how it feels, not just how it sounds
So you're a home studio nerd who likes playing in drop A with a background in piano? I know there was a reason I liked this channel 😉I think all the guitar tones are pretty good but the Jazz Master is noticeably bright and obviously had the best pitch stability in the open note test. I have Schecter Elite 7 which goes to 27" which does pretty well in drop A but occasionally hear the sharpness on the open string. Also, there are different amounts of "fanning" you can have on your neck- I think multiscales are great because you keep the high string from sounding thin and tinny (not everything's about chugs!).
Yes lol
The extra brightness of the Jazzmaster is largely due to a 1M pot rather than normal 500k, though the strings and scale length contribute to that too. It definitely stands out amongst my other guitars in tone.
Multiscale is cool too and has its pros and cons, though for recording purposes, nothing wrong with just having a longer scale guitar for rhythms and a normal scale for leads!
i really like the 26.5" scale. Just seems to have more bite and punch to it. Ive been playing forever but never really put a lot of thought into scale length until the last couple of years. I have a typical 25.5" scale guitar, and an odd ball 25.75" which i seem to play most often. But Ive been looking at schecter 7-8 string guitars, they play awesome. I think a few come in the 26.5" scale and longer scales. Decisions Decisions Lol This video was really helpful, thanks!
Solar have a 29" 7 string. They also have (one) 29", 27", and 26.5" 6 strings.
I've always tended to play low tunings (A#std and Bstd most of all). I had a 28 and 5/8 inch scale neck-through baritone which sounded amazingly, I would say perfectly (for me at least), even in dropG#, but I sold it (I was young and dumb).
Since then I've been trying to achieve that tone with standard scale instruments. I've tried different gauges, I've calculated the tension to match that baritone with heavier gauge strings - I was disappointed with the sound every time. I was surprised, just how bad (to my ears) thicker strings were sounding. I thought: "Oh maybe it's the guitar, or pickups, because, look, it's the same tension! It couldn't be just because the strings just a bit thicker!" But I've tried so much guitars and pickups - and it was never there. I finally realized: the gauges and scale matter ALOT.
And after many years of searching and wandering I think it's time for me to go baritone again and your video just got me even more convinced. With the single note comparison between 26.5" and 30" I can clearly hear what I've always couldn't stand with my guitars when I tried .060 gauge for an A# on the standard scale - that "rubberish" feel that you can hear on a 26.5" example, when the note initially goes high and then it drifts lower and lower, like the string is being loosen. THAT's what has always been annoying for me. It might work for some specific genres and scenarios of course, but not for me.
Can a guitar with a 25.5" scale handle A-stanard tuning if the strings are thick enough
Sure! It's not ideal, but it will work. It would sound better on a longer scale, but I think there's even some doom bands going down to A on 24.75" gibson scale guitars. My 7 string is drop A at 26.5" and I found that to be the best tuning for that length.
I generally go for 46-10 for Eb on a Gibson scale.
Try Ernie ball Skinny Top Heavy Bottom, theyre 10's on the top 3 strings, and 52's on the lower 3 strings. Works great for Les Pauls
How does that jazzmaster compare in terms of comfortability? I sit my guitar in my right leg and I have only tried that body style once but I remember it moving my picking hand in a good way
I typically play in a classical position, and I have no complaints, it's a pretty normal shape to me. I did play in the standard position in this video, but that was just to get that long neck in the shot better haha
I have hybrid bass/guitar 8-string that I modded. It has an unusual tuning but one string is A1 and I'm running a .90 from Stringjoy. That only gets me to ~32 lbs of tension. Actual basses are running 40-45+ lbs of tension. So far I've found 32ish to be adequate to get punchy sound that approaches a real bass. For my purposes, the idea of using something in the .60s is ridiculous. But I fully appreciate I have different goals. My instrument isn't an "extended range guitar". It's shooting for a being able to play a bass part and a chordal/melodic part at the same time. So I really want the bass side to sound as P-bassy as possible.
Whatever gets you the sound you want! Thinner strings have more brightness and bite for more "guitar" tones and thicker strings will be darker and fatter like a bass
Hello great video. Whats the best scale for 6 string guitar dor drop C tuning
The theoretical optimal would probably be something custom, but either fender scale 25.5" or the 26.5" of many 7 strings work well. I've had good results on a gibson 24.75" scale too, but I'd go for longer if possible
Hey I'm building a guitar it's 25.5 in but the fingerboard is around 4in longer can I add more frets than the 20 required in a 25.5 in .? Does that make any sense?
I think you might be confusing fret count and scale length. Scale length is measured from the bridge to the nut. A longer scale means wider spaced frets, but any scale length can have any number of frets
Dude! Glad to hear someone actually saying something like "27.7 is good for G seven string". Kudos!
Some of my observations: I play M80M in F standard mostly. But I already don't like that much how it sounds and feels in E or D# with 29.4 inches. Too dark, too muddy. With F standard you can make the bass octave lower and it'll sound cool because guitar still maintains the "brightness". But E or D# you have to support with the bass in unison, otherwise it's not the great.
Regarding mutliscale - I actually do prefer bass with a mutliscale. Mine has 3 inches difference between 5 and 1. But I got used to it in like couple of hours. Not sure about guitar tho.
I also agree that at 29+ inches guitar actually feels not really like a guitar but a bit like a different instrument. And as a Bassist I love that! Much more fun then a regular guitar!
I think multiscale bass actually makes a lot of sense, since you rarely play a ton of chords, and when I do, it's never more that 3 note chords on the top strings. On guitar, it's harder to play barre chords on the first few frets and the bridge throws off my palm muting some. I don't find a 34" normal scale too much, so 27.5" or more is no problem. I still like the schecter a lot though, I just kinda wish it wasn't multiscale, even though that was a big reason I bought it lol.
I tried some new strings on the baritone, and planned on taking it down to double drop E, but I'm liking D# or D even more tone wise, too much tension that low and it sounds too much like a bass, it kinda needs some slack. I'll probably just record bass at the same octave with it. I'm not sure my 5 string with even a huge .145 low string will do all the way down to D without sounding awful, but I can try!
@@NickLeonard I have 37 inches on 5 string of my bass and 170 gauge. It works ok in F. (I also played in F using 130 - tone is better, but with my picking it is really hard to control this thing - it bounces all over the place ) But I also played bass for a band which uses 8 string drop D# a lot and after that experience I personally would not recommend dropping the bass lower then F. Even with 170 and 37 inches. Even in F it’s kinda questionable, but works really good with a decent 8 string. I don’t think it’s even the problem of gauges or scales at this point. It plays ok. But the notes are not really audible at this point :D
Agreed that for bass multiscale makes a lot of sense! Never got a chance to try an 8 string that has multiscale. Tried a seven string and it was ok. I was thinking about 8 string with 28-30 multiscale, but you kinda confirm my fears about such an instrument. Meshuggah signature still the best choice I guess.
@@raljarn I think there's no real need to always go an octave below the guitars, if you really want the sub octave, you could use an octaver or pitch shifter in combination, but I think distorted bass sounds better at the same octave as guitars, and I've never really loved adding in the sub octave with an octaver. You don't need it for the amount of bass in the mix or anything, so it's just a matter of tone, and I think it's really hard to get a good tone that low. You end up lower than a piano on strings shorter than a small upright, which always sound bad even at much higher tension than you could play on a bass.
@@NickLeonard this is more of a taste thing. And I really don’t like playing bass in F same octave as guitar. Too tight, to high. I also don’t like the sound of octavers or pitchshifters. Distorted Dingwall in low F has a super great tone tho.
Have you considered evertune? I think extended scale length + evertune allows you not to need to have the length extreme
I'd like to try one, but I've never played one.
I just use hardtails now, but hopefully I can spend some time with one before deciding if I want to buy one.
@@NickLeonard I do drop A on 25.5 and the lowest string doesn’t warble at all. You have adjustability for how much the spring tension will correct. It’s truly amazing. I wouldn’t want to share the secrets but I would feel bad if I didn’t after learning so much from this video you made
You say that "scale is the distance between nut and bridge" Do you actually mean between nut and saddle? Many sites, including Martin, say measure from nut to center of 12th fret then double that measurement to get scale length? My epiphone measures 12-3/8 to center of 12th fret, so L=24-3/4, but when I measure from nut to saddle = 25.5 😮 ???
So which one is the 'correct' scale length ?
Termination to termination, Gibson should always be 24.75"
@@NickLeonard ?? Termination (nut) to termination (saddle) is 25.5
@@titusrider7948 I just remeasured a few to be sure, I've got a Epi LP here, it's 24.75" from the edge of the nut (fretboard side) to the shortest possible saddle position, though the total saddle adjustment range is only about 1/4"
measuring from nut to the 12 fret (on the fret) is half that, give or take a bit for exact saddle position
what model do you have?
@@NickLeonard Thanks for checking Nick. I thought the measurement should be to the 12th fret bar, that makes sense to me. Many "expert" sites say to middle of fret but that doesn't make sense. It's an original Gibson epi FT550, early 70's, it's gorgeous, the real deal, I bought new 50 years ago
@@titusrider7948 it does appear to be a 25.5 scale on that one, unusual for Gibson, but not unheard of!
Gibson SG, C tuning, 11-48 Ernie Ball Power Slinky, I can't go lower because it sounds pretty bad.
.48 is pretty light for C! I like the D'addario EXL 148 for C, though it's a little better on a fender scale, that's a .60
@@NickLeonard I tried .60 but it's too thick for my taste and fingers 😅
@@emimele I just put a .80 on the baritone 😂
@@NickLeonard 😆
25.5 accustic
Almost all.of them, except anything below 24 and no 25"
Should have had a les paul or a PRS SE245 in A to really hammer the point home haha
I have one, though I haven't taken it lower than drop C, and it's not even perfect there! A would require a .72 lol
@@NickLeonard yeah, for drop C I'm already at like a .58 and it's still feeling pretty slinky dinky! I have a tendency to like slightly shorter scale lengths tonally for chuggy metal stuff. I also prefer between 27 and 28" scale for my low F, as anything longer than that starts sounding TOO clear and nice, while not being enough to get bigger strings and lower tunings to sound good. I'm having a 34" scale baritone made by converting a bass for my super low tunings :p
Or a nice 4 string cigar box guitar woukd have been nice on the small end of things , just to open minds
Cookie Monster guitar tones
size isnt everything, but 9 inches