Two months after you question the situation is that the price of rare earth minerals is falling, because China has raised it's production levels. In addition new deposits of rare earth minerals have been discovered in the USA, particularly in Wyoming. In addition, subsitution is taking place. One does have to ask the question of the present use of rare earth minerals and as opposed to an alternative renewable energy based path. In my opinion, continuing the present course also has it's own material resource issues.
Citing battery storage (watt hours) in terms of power output (watts) is like saying you can replace a 100 CFM fan with a balloon. Sure, it has the same peak discharge, but one runs all the time, and the other needs to get reinflated after 10 seconds.
Wind and solar and batteries combined have ALREADY enabled both England and California to operate their electric grids virtually emissions free for extended periods of time. They have not yet reached their targets for deployment. But the progress continues. The results so far confirm that it will be possible to eliminate all fossil fuel powered electricity generation in most countries within a couple of decades. As a side benefit, getting off fossil fuels eliminates a massive ongoing refueling cost and reaps a huge economic windfall.
@@davidmenasco5743 I live in California and can Guarantee you that we use Natural Gas every day to save us from cascading blackouts. Also, we have the 3rd highest electricity rates in the nation. California is not a place to admire for energy policy
@@davidmenasco5743your carbon free system is sitting under your nose (nuclear power) but the Sierra Club pays good money so that you won’t ever understand that.
While appreciating work being done by IEA, I am seeking clarification about its policy on batteries for EVs & power storage. Questions that come to mind are: 1. China dominates battery production and battery material, and is expected to do so over decades as per your data. Others are pygmies in comparison. Therefore mad rush for EVs and power storage batteries under the guise of climate change will enable China to arm-twist every one. There won’t be a fig leaf of supply security. 2. Environmental Impact of hazardous elements used in batteries, spanning mining to production to disposal at end of life is yet to be conclusively determined. Also EVs charged with power from coal/gas plants are hardly environment friendly. 3. Similarly, China dominates solar panel manufacture and material. India’s dependence for panels and batteries on China is fraught with danger. Moreover, disposal of panels at end of life is yet to be thought through. India does not figure as a significant player in your narrative but has ambitious plans to save environment by adopting Chinese green technologies! IEA going gung-ho on batteries is like putting horse before the cart.
Thank you very much for this summary of the latest fear mongering PR talking points from the fossil fuel lobby. Please note that: A) The environmental impact of battery production is a tiny fraction of the impact of oil extraction, refining, transport, storage, distribution and COMBUSTION. These processes have left massive, epic scale disasters behind in every region where they are practiced, and will continue to do so until we turn off the fossil fuel tap. B) Batteries and most solar panel materials, after a long life of several decades, can be recycled and reused. Battery recycling is an established business that will be expanding dramatically as the need arises. By comparison, the only way fossil fuels get reused is by YOUR LUNGS. C) We face some important decisions. One option we have is to dig in our heels and stand firm with the status quo and hope for the best. This runs the risk that climate change will disrupt food production and displace large populations, destabilize economies and governments, and end the current world order as we know it. Another option is to learn how to get along with our neighbors to make the world a better place. This carries the possibility that we can effectively address climate change and avoid the catastrophe it would cause. Some will find this to be a very hard choice. But I hope even the most jaded will recognize that even on the strictest regime of pure self-interest, the second option is the preferred one.
What point are you trying to make? You can certainly use renewable energy to make both concrete and cement as well as a whole range of other materials. Plants working at night would need energy storage of renewables which would come from battery storages.
@@microburn But DRI (Direct Reduced Iron) - the alternative way of making steel - has been around for many decades. It just requires either cheap electricity or a big carbon tax to be competitive. Getting coal out of cement making is a tougher problem.
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My honest question: Do we have enough raw materials (also including recycling) to make the energy transition ?
Two months after you question the situation is that the price of rare earth minerals is falling, because China has raised it's production levels. In addition new deposits of rare earth minerals have been discovered in the USA, particularly in Wyoming. In addition, subsitution is taking place. One does have to ask the question of the present use of rare earth minerals and as opposed to an alternative renewable energy based path. In my opinion, continuing the present course also has it's own material resource issues.
@@chrisconklin2981 Wow ! Really appreciate the answer !
Citing battery storage (watt hours) in terms of power output (watts) is like saying you can replace a 100 CFM fan with a balloon.
Sure, it has the same peak discharge, but one runs all the time, and the other needs to get reinflated after 10 seconds.
Wind and solar and batteries combined have ALREADY enabled both England and California to operate their electric grids virtually emissions free for extended periods of time.
They have not yet reached their targets for deployment. But the progress continues. The results so far confirm that it will be possible to eliminate all fossil fuel powered electricity generation in most countries within a couple of decades.
As a side benefit, getting off fossil fuels eliminates a massive ongoing refueling cost and reaps a huge economic windfall.
@@davidmenasco5743 I live in California and can Guarantee you that we use Natural Gas every day to save us from cascading blackouts.
Also, we have the 3rd highest electricity rates in the nation. California is not a place to admire for energy policy
@@davidmenasco5743your carbon free system is sitting under your nose (nuclear power) but the Sierra Club pays good money so that you won’t ever understand that.
While appreciating work being done by IEA, I am seeking clarification about its policy on batteries for EVs & power storage. Questions that come to mind are:
1. China dominates battery production and battery material, and is expected to do so over decades as per your data. Others are pygmies in comparison. Therefore mad rush for EVs and power storage batteries under the guise of climate change will enable China to arm-twist every one. There won’t be a fig leaf of supply security.
2. Environmental Impact of hazardous elements used in batteries, spanning mining to production to disposal at end of life is yet to be conclusively determined. Also EVs charged with power from coal/gas plants are hardly environment friendly.
3. Similarly, China dominates solar panel manufacture and material. India’s dependence for panels and batteries on China is fraught with danger. Moreover, disposal of panels at end of life is yet to be thought through. India does not figure as a significant player in your narrative but has ambitious plans to save environment by adopting Chinese green technologies!
IEA going gung-ho on batteries is like putting horse before the cart.
Thank you very much for this summary of the latest fear mongering PR talking points from the fossil fuel lobby.
Please note that:
A) The environmental impact of battery production is a tiny fraction of the impact of oil extraction, refining, transport, storage, distribution and COMBUSTION. These processes have left massive, epic scale disasters behind in every region where they are practiced, and will continue to do so until we turn off the fossil fuel tap.
B) Batteries and most solar panel materials, after a long life of several decades, can be recycled and reused. Battery recycling is an established business that will be expanding dramatically as the need arises. By comparison, the only way fossil fuels get reused is by YOUR LUNGS.
C) We face some important decisions. One option we have is to dig in our heels and stand firm with the status quo and hope for the best. This runs the risk that climate change will disrupt food production and displace large populations, destabilize economies and governments, and end the current world order as we know it.
Another option is to learn how to get along with our neighbors to make the world a better place. This carries the possibility that we can effectively address climate change and avoid the catastrophe it would cause.
Some will find this to be a very hard choice. But I hope even the most jaded will recognize that even on the strictest regime of pure self-interest, the second option is the preferred one.
You can't use batteries to make concrete or steel
What point are you trying to make? You can certainly use renewable energy to make both concrete and cement as well as a whole range of other materials. Plants working at night would need energy storage of renewables which would come from battery storages.
Electricity can provide heat to 3000 degrees C.
ITT: people who don’t realize that steel is often, by definition, iron that’s been fired in a coal furnace.
@@microburn But DRI (Direct Reduced Iron) - the alternative way of making steel - has been around for many decades. It just requires either cheap electricity or a big carbon tax to be competitive. Getting coal out of cement making is a tougher problem.
How do you make carbonate (lime) without carbon?
Also plastic (PE, PP, PET, PVC, PS, PU etc) is impossible without carbon - it's in the definition.