ARC Genesis user here, first of all thanks for the video - the steps you showed with the spiral position 1-5 really did the trick for me with the calibration, made a huge difference in my system. But with my OCD and the height adjustment in each position, I couldn't just eyeball it. So I took my large mic boom(not the one from Anthem, too small), positioned it at the ML position, adjusted the height and mic at the desired position and made a line around the mic boom pole with a marker. That way I could adjust the height of the mic boom with a ruler and with what ever desired increments I wanted, up or down from the marked line. And when it came to the phase adjustment, I just adjusted the height of the mic boom back to the marked line from the first measurement at ML position.
I’m so glad to hear the tutorial made a difference with your calibration. I have marked the stand height and boom arm in 1-inch segments so that know the height and changes as well. Great work!
well i tried the recommended mic placements for calibrating my system. ran arc and was impressed with the difference it made. thanks for the tutorial wish i would have know a few of those tricks when i purchased my equipment.
Thank you for this very informative tutorial. I especially appreciate the tips on microphone placement for EACH type of room correction and how to manage when you are close to a room boundary. Very informative. I really like your home made tool!
Glad you liked. There are more in this series coming with a deep dive on Dirac and ARC Genesis. Theo will have an exclusive segment on Dirac ART to teach best practices and dispel some of the inaccurate information circulating in forums.
Thank you. I had read that the microphone measurements were all supposed to be on the same plane. It’s good to understand that there are varying degrees of height in the measurements. This is an excellent video and thank you.
All the software packages want a variation in height. This does not come across in the 2-D diagrams and is one of the most common mistakes. Glad you enjoyed the segment!
I bought a Zoom MA-2 for doing my Audyssey calibrations. It has a 1/4" male thread that the Audyssey mic screws into. Then I use a microphone boom stand. Much easier than how awkward using the camera tripod looks
Theo, fantastic communicator. Clear, consice, and practical primer on room correction. Thank you, Gene, for tasking Theo with this informative presentation. Thank you, Theo, for your ongoing excellent contribution to this channel.
De audysee mic has the same fitting as a photo camera. I use a camera stand / tripod. It's very solid and the telescopic legs make it easy to position wherever needed.
For years is used a camera stand and thought yep thats good enough. I got a proper mic stand about a year ago and all my auto calibrations improved (ie the improvents in results were immediately audible). Ive got this theory about reflections from the seat bases on my couch and that camera stand depending on mic height. Free space around the mic and the location you are measuring always a good thing.
Awesome,basically follow the same rules. I use audyssey but when I start I purposely set the sub too low. This activates the sub leveling tool. I then pick it up in increments until it's in the green area. I start my stop watch and make sure it stays in the green for at least a full minute.
Great video! What's your take on why to measure above the seat backs if your head and ears will actually rest below? Wouldn't you want room EQ to take in account that some surround tweeters might be blocked and to boost them to compensate at the listening position?
Adam we recommend reclining your seat and eliminating interference from the headrest during calibration. 1) When we do a video like this people need very specific, repeatable recommendations they can follow. 2) individuals tend to have the microphone too close to the seat, and therefore get the effect of the seat on the microphone. 3) direct line of sight is preferred for both direct and reflected sound above Schroeder. 4) if you cannot recline your seat we recommend measuring above the back of the seat for rear measurement point s and below for front measurement points to mitigate effect of the seat. Do not under any circumstances put the mic near the seat head thinking it “mimics” where your ears are. The sear back creates its own mini boundary effect.
Theo is doing a series of videos specifically on room correction best practice and our videos are peer reviewed and vetted by the Anthem and Dirac engineers. We will be doing a specific focus on the right way to use REW before and after calibration to enhance your calibration effectiveness. Stay tuned.
awesome video, easily the best calibration video i have seen! can we get the specs, dimensions, etc to make our own wooden mic contraption that you made? That is just pure genius!
This is a roughly 1” x 1/4” x 48 inch maple strip. They sell these at Lowe’s and Home Depot in a pre-cut section. I then drilled the holes in the middle and at 20-inches from center on either side.
Great video. Thank you. Something that wasn’t mentioned that I would recommend is that if you have some type of transducers or motion actuators is to turn them off. I have the Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators and even though I have the Crowson amp’s crossover to it’s lowest setting, 40Hz, they did affect the Arc Genesis sub results on my MRX 1140.
Theo...just a question..I don't think its covered in your video...if I have a wall boundary..do you still use the staircase technique of raising the mic higher on each position ? Don't think there was a graphic for that unless I missed it? I have a couch on a back wall and unfortunately don't have a choice
Yes it is important to vary the height as the software solutions need to understand the acoustical aspects of your rooms like room modes. Varying the height allows the software to get an understanding of the direct, reflected, phase, and time domain information about the interaction of your speakers and the room.
Thanks for asking the question. It was certainly inferred that you move the measurement positions to eliminate the boundary effect but still maintain the variation in height.
Sorry 1 more question. Phase alignment of speakers in ARC is that done separately from the 5 point arc calibration or as part of the calibration? So to clarify. I complete my arc sweep create an arc file..then come back and do the phase alignment separately ?
Thanks for asking that question. All measurements should have variation in height and maintain the min/max distance between measurement points the software solution recommends.
@@MarcusMaximus909YES this is an incredibly important step, and it is a separate step at the end of the calibration. You have to select phase align explicitly. It is clearly laid out in user manual and I will be going over this when I do that segment. Be sure to save your calibration before starting phase align!!!!!! There’s a good ANTHEM ARC GENESIS group on AVSFORUMS I suggest joining. I contribute and you’ll find some knowledgeable folks there who can help with any specific questions.
Thanks for the video. Any chance of Audyssey drawn diagram? I didn't fully understand mic locations for it. Do you change places for every measurement or just use rotation of the wood plank and it's reach as a second location?
I have the Audyssey diagram at the 19:30 mark of the video. It’s on the right side of the slide I’m talking about. The Marantz and Denon AVRs show you the ROUGH microphone placement via the graphic interface. You can also Google Audyssey microphone locations. Then apply the specific guidelines in this tutorial. Do not try and mimic the graphic as it is not to scale and fails to show the necessity of height variation.
Great video, thank you. FYI, on Onkyo with dirac, you can assign a default dirac profile (1, 2, 3, or no dirac) to each input (e.g. tv vs radio vs dvd) if you use the web interface (custom installer login). It can then be temporarily changed as desired when in use. I assume that the impact of the mic stand itself on the measurement is negligible? Or is it better to have the stand behind the couch when possible? Lastly, i was confused as to the difference in recommendations between Audioholics and Dirac. Can someone elaborate on the difference?
As a best practice, always try to have the microphone stand out of the direct path of any speaker being measured. This recommendation hopefully alleviates any confusion by end users. My preferred mic stand set up is to have the microphone stand behind the seat if possible. Apply the concepts in the tutorial logically to the real world constraints you encounter in your setup.
We at Audioholics are saying pick a money seat and therefore a money row. We think it’s better to optimize a seat and a row. Better to have an optimized seat and row versus mediocre to poor everywhere. Matt Poes, Gene, and I all agree. Matt made some additional points about the emerging science and practices in cinema installations to this effect. DIRAC’s team does not argue against that perspective. Rather they say if the user WANTS to measure between rows where there is NO SEAT and NO ROW OF SEATS, then so be it and let the user choose the balance on the sonic trade offs. Regardless of which option you choose Dirac emphasizes that the microphone measurement pattern remains the same. We strongly suggest following the Audioholics advice and calibrating for a money seat and money row. Hope that clarifies.
@TheoNicolakis Yes. It's perfectly clear now, thank you. It certainly makes sense to me to measure for an MLP as most of the time I will be in that spot and having others in the room is less of a certainty.
The wood is a 1/4-inch maple (or use oak) strip that is approximately 48-inches long. I have the microphone positions at roughly 20-inches from center on each arm. You can buy these strips pre-cut from Home Depot or Lowe’s.
How can I use this in my Sony AVR? It only uses two measurements from the main listening position. Once you have the measurements, where is this info stored? Is it uploaded to the AVR? I also have three different subwoofers that I would like to get 'dialed in' and am a complete noob.
@@msoles30once you are in the software, Dirac, ARC, Audyssey please ignore what the AVR volume says and use the software. The software has control at that point.
Thanks for the video. What if the first row is 4 seats (ARC)? The reference position I’ve been using is between the two middle seats. Should I just pick one seat?
Since you are using Anthem ARC, you can try both options. Remember you can have up to 4 different calibration profiles. What I like to do in scenarios like this is measure at the center of the LCR speakers in the row OR focus on a single money seat. I would therefore recommend selecting one as the money seat and doing a calibration there you could optionally do a then one focused with the speakers centered in the row. Then load each profile into the processor and then you could call up each profile as a separate input and do an A/B Comparison.
What about doing Audyssey room measurement where my front speakers are about 40" away from me and my surround speakers are 32" away from me? I believe my surround speakers are positioned about 115 to 120 degree angle and my fronts are about a 45 degree angle from the front center. Of course, since I live in a temporary space, I do not have room for a center speaker and so my Denon AVR-X3400H sends the center signal to my front left and right speakers. My big problem is with the metal piece (kind of like a pillar) that kind of attaches from the ceiling. That metal piece reflects the low-mid frequencies of the front speakers and it sounds like a reverb. Given that I live in an unfinished basement in a rental house (I travel with my family as I work from home), there is just nothing I can do about it until I move out of an old house. If I want to get the best sound... I don't know how I can remove that tall metal piece that can move back and forth a bit... 😠 (laughs a little bit)
Excellent video. Wish you had taken a look at Yamaha and YPAO that so many seem to ignore or consider poor. I must admit after years with Yamaha that room correction is okay however using wide dispersion Philharmonic speakers I found that exact measured speaker placement, time alignment and level matching using my own tools gave me better results than using room correction and I now keep it off.
@mattgiunt YPAO is only good for levels and delays (usually not for subwoofers). Sadly Yamaha hasn't done much to improve it other than it does less harm then it used to post EQA calibration.
Great points. The reason for these three only is that I have extensive personal and professional experience with each and have had all in my setups. If I can get my hands on a Yamaha unit I’d be open to doing a YPAO segment and best practices there. The general concepts likely carryover to that as well, so you should be able to have some transfer over to YPAO.
I am currently using 10.3 and haven’t yet tried the version 11 build. I did take a look at the tech notes and would not have any reservation with using version 11 and plan to do so when I get a chance.
@TheoNicolakis my Room is pretty symmetrical.On one Side is door ,on the other not.my subs (two) are dialed in -0.5db and the other one +4.5dB..sounds great. Maybe they are Just "different" (of course exact same model) and while Volume calibration i also see diference in dB.
@@texxhexxmmyou can have two identical subs with drastically different in room responses. If that’s the case you may want to separate them into their own group in DIRAC. If this reflects what you are seeing the. Try that approach. Dirac recommends this and I’ll be covering it in a future segment on Dirac.
@TheoNicolakis i use Bass Control.The subs are in one group,meaning the corrected Bass Control curve Shows only one graph compared to Dirac live Version/Project without Bass Control.
@ got it. I’ve been using Dirac ART now for some time and ungrouping subs is possible there and the recommendation I offered was with an ART calibration
I’ve never been provided a good answer for the following. What if your row is 4 seats (ie. Not a centered RSP). Should you calibrate based on the center of the room between the two middle seats OR calibrate based on one of the two middle offset seats? What are the downsides to each? Anthem AVM90.
This is a great question and our multi-row recommendation still holds true regardless of the number of rows. We recommend picking a “money seat” as the RSP and performing a calibration.
If you are a Dirac user and have the ability to upgrade to ART, we’ll give you a teaser that the results in Theo’s theater with his Focal Astral 16 AVR and Focal 1000 Utopia speakers and RBH subs have been stellar. The bass response both seat to seat and throughout the room are very promising. We are looking forward to publishing the Dirac ART segment.
@@texxhexxmm Masimo has given no indication that any of the current 4 sub AV products from Denon and Marantz will support ART at this time or in the immediate future.
Great question. I vary the height of the microphone stand between measurements. 😊 You’ll notice in some of the video segments if you look closely that I have the stand marked with inch markers so I can gauge the height.
That would have been a great time to show your marks on the stand. I apologize for only criticizing because it's a great video! I will add that I've had great success using the storm audio patterns with my arcam processor.
@@williamwilson1393it was a good observation and question. I use the jig only with Audyssey with the unique aspects of their microphone. Certainly a Dirac user with the puck mic could do the same. I would strongly advise using a UMIC whenever possible. And yes the folks at Storm Audio have a great handle on the practical implementation of Dirac.
It does not. You will find some who argue to point the microphone AT the speakers and use the 0-degree calibration file and the software companies were a “NO” to that recommendation.
As Theo mentioned, the creators all recommend a 90-degree orientation for the microphone even if it is a stereo calibration. We made it a point to clarify this exact question from the source.
If your couch is up against the back wall how is it possible to get the MLP accurately measured if you suggest placing the mic 2 feet away from the back wall? - This would place the MLP too far foreword causing an incorrect 'focus' delay and gain... Also since your ears will be in the loading area, your MLP measurement needs to be in that same loading area so the bass mode gets reduced in the final calibration. Otherwise it will be way too boomy where you are sitting.
As @aurelienduplan9139 mentioned only the 1st measurement sets trim and delay. You can compensate for that AFTER the calibration. Having your microphone too close to a room boundary will give you destructive reinforcement and yield terrible calibration results. This is another one of the cases where “trust the science” holds true.
Unless I missed something in part one and the subsequent part two, Anthony is using REW not one of these packages nor does he state that he is setting up microphones at 45° should be set up at 45°. If you look closely the mics are at different angles typical of setup stages. The context of the video is that he is in a pre-calibration set up. In our particular used case, we are using room correction software with supply microphones that should be placed in a 90° orientation as re-confirmed in the user manuals and also by the manufacturers themselves in the peer review of this video. Hope that’s confirmation enough to point the mic at the ceiling 😊
@ Thanks for the reply. Girmani systems states in the comments of the video that the mics are at 45 degrees when doing EQ with REW using 90 degree calibration. I am wondering if I should do the same to get the best results with REW EQ and also when comparing the outcome of Audyssey with REW. I have tried comparing REW result using UMIK mic with Audyssey using the standard mic and get very different results at 45 and 90 except in the bass region. Mic up for auto for sure.
@@texxhexxmmcan you help me with context? Are you referring to the new Dirac build? I am showed Dirac 10.3 and I saw in the tech notes they made some changes in version 11 to the volume and plan to install the update soon to see the UI changes.
@@TheoNicolakis yes .With 3.11 the Volume fader is " different.100% mic gain is gone.Now it Shows+30db(Max) and -20dB (Minimum).With 0dB point i get same Levels as before.Also the calibration does a better Job with less Problems,especially with umik2 . before i offen got imprecise measurement with Higher Positions closer to atmos speakers. Do you also recommend going about +30db from noise floor for speaker gains?
A lot of great stuff here, but I don't agree with some of the advice. Having done quite a lot of statistics, it makes no sense to me to take measurements where your (or someone else's) ears won't be, and it makes no sense that fewer measurements would yield better results (given that they are taken in the right places, i.e. where ears will be). Why? When you take measurements, you are sampling from a population. All possible positions of ears are part of the same population that we want to sample from as we seek to infer the true parameters of the population (e.g. the frequency response etc.), all other positions belong to another (irrelevant) population. The laws of statistics say that the standard error decreases as you increase the number of measurements, i.e. more measurements will increase accuracy. Unless ARC Genesis, Audyssey and/or Dirac does something dumb with the measurements in their processing (like averaging the measurements without time aligning them first), you should take as many measurements as you can in the locations where ears will/can be. I believe this is what Dirac tries to say when the advice you to take 9 tightly focused measurements for a single seat theater. You can verify this for yourself by taking different number of measurements, calculate the average and standard error, and compare these values against different sets of measurements containing different number of data points (measurements). In order for 5 or 8 measurements to suffice, your population standard deviation would have to be infitely small, which I don't think it ever is (just look as the swings in the lower frequencies between different measurements, even ones that are close together).
Thanks for asking this question. Room correction solutions are far more sophisticated than taking an aggregate average of multiple measurements. These packages calculate direct, reflected sound, identify room modes, and address issues in the Time domain, measure the capabilities of speakers and automatically calculate optimal crossovers and more. The research and researchers of these various solutions all agree there are diminishing returns to an infinite number of measurements. We have interviews with some of the creators of the software packages as well as in-depth articles on the research and theories on the Audioholics website if you’d like to do a deeper dive on any of these topics. The simplest answer is just as you have an expertise in statistics, these researchers have extensive expertise and years of research in acoustics and psychoacoustics. Trust the science.
@Audioholics Thank you. I understand. Statistical theory (the central limit theorem) still applies though, there is no getting around that. Increasing the number of samples will increase accuracy if you sample from the same population. You can't have worse results if you take more samples, given that you sample from the same population. However, you can have worse results if you sample from a different population without realizing it, such as measuring where your ears won't be. I'll reach out to Dirac and ask them, this needs to be cleared up.
@@TheoNicolakis my grandfather is from the island of Samos. I went to see my heritage and got to see the Pythagoras Museum this summer. Funny enough, I’m a metrologist by profession and wonder if it’s because of the Greek in me lol. It’s in our heritage to measure things lol
@@tonygerassi1502I spent a few days on Samos in 1998. Amazing trip and enjoyed the island and the people tremendously! Of course Οι έλληνες will say it’s in our genes for sure ☺️
ARC Genesis user here, first of all thanks for the video - the steps you showed with the spiral position 1-5 really did the trick for me with the calibration, made a huge difference in my system. But with my OCD and the height adjustment in each position, I couldn't just eyeball it. So I took my large mic boom(not the one from Anthem, too small), positioned it at the ML position, adjusted the height and mic at the desired position and made a line around the mic boom pole with a marker. That way I could adjust the height of the mic boom with a ruler and with what ever desired increments I wanted, up or down from the marked line. And when it came to the phase adjustment, I just adjusted the height of the mic boom back to the marked line from the first measurement at ML position.
I’m so glad to hear the tutorial made a difference with your calibration. I have marked the stand height and boom arm in 1-inch segments so that know the height and changes as well. Great work!
well i tried the recommended mic placements for calibrating my system. ran arc and was impressed with the difference it made. thanks for the tutorial wish i would have know a few of those tricks when i purchased my equipment.
Thank you for this very informative tutorial. I especially appreciate the tips on microphone placement for EACH type of room correction and how to manage when you are close to a room boundary. Very informative. I really like your home made tool!
Glad you liked. There are more in this series coming with a deep dive on Dirac and ARC Genesis. Theo will have an exclusive segment on Dirac ART to teach best practices and dispel some of the inaccurate information circulating in forums.
Thank you. I had read that the microphone measurements were all supposed to be on the same plane. It’s good to understand that there are varying degrees of height in the measurements. This is an excellent video and thank you.
All the software packages want a variation in height. This does not come across in the 2-D diagrams and is one of the most common mistakes. Glad you enjoyed the segment!
Excellent tutorial! Thank you!
I bought a Zoom MA-2 for doing my Audyssey calibrations. It has a 1/4" male thread that the Audyssey mic screws into. Then I use a microphone boom stand. Much easier than how awkward using the camera tripod looks
That’s another great solution.
One of the best calibration videos I think I have ever seen! I love the Audyssey microphone jig!
Theo, fantastic communicator. Clear, consice, and practical primer on room correction. Thank you, Gene, for tasking Theo with this informative presentation. Thank you, Theo, for your ongoing excellent contribution to this channel.
Thank you David. Really appreciate that!
from Spain, I loved the video, thank you!
Thanks Jose!
This was super helpful and showed me a couple ways I’ve been doing things wrong. Thanks so much!
BIG THX at Theo and Gene this was a Great Video ❤😊
Glad you enjoyed it. Theo is working on more in this series so stay tuned.
Thanks Michael!
De audysee mic has the same fitting as a photo camera. I use a camera stand / tripod. It's very solid and the telescopic legs make it easy to position wherever needed.
Great observation.
For years is used a camera stand and thought yep thats good enough. I got a proper mic stand about a year ago and all my auto calibrations improved (ie the improvents in results were immediately audible). Ive got this theory about reflections from the seat bases on my couch and that camera stand depending on mic height. Free space around the mic and the location you are measuring always a good thing.
Awesome,basically follow the same rules. I use audyssey but when I start I purposely set the sub too low. This activates the sub leveling tool. I then pick it up in increments until it's in the green area. I start my stop watch and make sure it stays in the green for at least a full minute.
Great tip!
Great video! What's your take on why to measure above the seat backs if your head and ears will actually rest below? Wouldn't you want room EQ to take in account that some surround tweeters might be blocked and to boost them to compensate at the listening position?
Adam we recommend reclining your seat and eliminating interference from the headrest during calibration. 1) When we do a video like this people need very specific, repeatable recommendations they can follow. 2) individuals tend to have the microphone too close to the seat, and therefore get the effect of the seat on the microphone. 3) direct line of sight is preferred for both direct and reflected sound above Schroeder. 4) if you cannot recline your seat we recommend measuring above the back of the seat for rear measurement point s and below for front measurement points to mitigate effect of the seat. Do not under any circumstances put the mic near the seat head thinking it “mimics” where your ears are. The sear back creates its own mini boundary effect.
Would love to see a follow up tutorial with Room EQ Wizard.
I will be incorporating key REW elements in one of the next segments along with mistakes people make post calibration. Stay tuned.
Theo is doing a series of videos specifically on room correction best practice and our videos are peer reviewed and vetted by the Anthem and Dirac engineers. We will be doing a specific focus on the right way to use REW before and after calibration to enhance your calibration effectiveness. Stay tuned.
awesome video, easily the best calibration video i have seen! can we get the specs, dimensions, etc to make our own wooden mic contraption that you made? That is just pure genius!
This is a roughly 1” x 1/4” x 48 inch maple strip. They sell these at Lowe’s and Home Depot in a pre-cut section. I then drilled the holes in the middle and at 20-inches from center on either side.
Great video. Thank you. Something that wasn’t mentioned that I would recommend is that if you have some type of transducers or motion actuators is to turn them off. I have the Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators and even though I have the Crowson amp’s crossover to it’s lowest setting, 40Hz, they did affect the Arc Genesis sub results on my MRX 1140.
Great point.
This was awesome, I definitely have been making mistakes…looking forward to a full recalibration 🍻
Looks like this video took a lot of time and effort, thanks for all the information.
It did indeed. The prep, recording, and tech peer with the manufacturers was time well spent if it has an impact on the audio community!
Informative video! I hope you’ll also do one for Trinnov.
Awesome! Thanks for this video!
Thank you for making this video!
Thanks!
You bet!
Theo...just a question..I don't think its covered in your video...if I have a wall boundary..do you still use the staircase technique of raising the mic higher on each position ? Don't think there was a graphic for that unless I missed it? I have a couch on a back wall and unfortunately don't have a choice
Yes it is important to vary the height as the software solutions need to understand the acoustical aspects of your rooms like room modes. Varying the height allows the software to get an understanding of the direct, reflected, phase, and time domain information about the interaction of your speakers and the room.
Thanks for asking the question. It was certainly inferred that you move the measurement positions to eliminate the boundary effect but still maintain the variation in height.
Sorry 1 more question. Phase alignment of speakers in ARC is that done separately from the 5 point arc calibration or as part of the calibration?
So to clarify. I complete my arc sweep create an arc file..then come back and do the phase alignment separately ?
Thanks for asking that question. All measurements should have variation in height and maintain the min/max distance between measurement points the software solution recommends.
@@MarcusMaximus909YES this is an incredibly important step, and it is a separate step at the end of the calibration. You have to select phase align explicitly. It is clearly laid out in user manual and I will be going over this when I do that segment. Be sure to save your calibration before starting phase align!!!!!! There’s a good ANTHEM ARC GENESIS group on AVSFORUMS I suggest joining. I contribute and you’ll find some knowledgeable folks there who can help with any specific questions.
Thanks for the video. Any chance of Audyssey drawn diagram? I didn't fully understand mic locations for it. Do you change places for every measurement or just use rotation of the wood plank and it's reach as a second location?
I have the Audyssey diagram at the 19:30 mark of the video. It’s on the right side of the slide I’m talking about. The Marantz and Denon AVRs show you the ROUGH microphone placement via the graphic interface. You can also Google Audyssey microphone locations. Then apply the specific guidelines in this tutorial. Do not try and mimic the graphic as it is not to scale and fails to show the necessity of height variation.
Great video, thank you. FYI, on Onkyo with dirac, you can assign a default dirac profile (1, 2, 3, or no dirac) to each input (e.g. tv vs radio vs dvd) if you use the web interface (custom installer login). It can then be temporarily changed as desired when in use.
I assume that the impact of the mic stand itself on the measurement is negligible? Or is it better to have the stand behind the couch when possible?
Lastly, i was confused as to the difference in recommendations between Audioholics and Dirac. Can someone elaborate on the difference?
As a best practice, always try to have the microphone stand out of the direct path of any speaker being measured. This recommendation hopefully alleviates any confusion by end users. My preferred mic stand set up is to have the microphone stand behind the seat if possible. Apply the concepts in the tutorial logically to the real world constraints you encounter in your setup.
We at Audioholics are saying pick a money seat and therefore a money row. We think it’s better to optimize a seat and a row. Better to have an optimized seat and row versus mediocre to poor everywhere. Matt Poes, Gene, and I all agree. Matt made some additional points about the emerging science and practices in cinema installations to this effect. DIRAC’s team does not argue against that perspective. Rather they say if the user WANTS to measure between rows where there is NO SEAT and NO ROW OF SEATS, then so be it and let the user choose the balance on the sonic trade offs. Regardless of which option you choose Dirac emphasizes that the microphone measurement pattern remains the same. We strongly suggest following the Audioholics advice and calibrating for a money seat and money row. Hope that clarifies.
@TheoNicolakis Yes. It's perfectly clear now, thank you. It certainly makes sense to me to measure for an MLP as most of the time I will be in that spot and having others in the room is less of a certainty.
@@markbee4238exactly. This is one of the factors why we feel that measuring for a money seat matters. It’s about ENJOYMENT.
How much does the wood measure from the center to the tip?
The wood is a 1/4-inch maple (or use oak) strip that is approximately 48-inches long. I have the microphone positions at roughly 20-inches from center on each arm. You can buy these strips pre-cut from Home Depot or Lowe’s.
How can I use this in my Sony AVR? It only uses two measurements from the main listening position. Once you have the measurements, where is this info stored? Is it uploaded to the AVR? I also have three different subwoofers that I would like to get 'dialed in' and am a complete noob.
That's a nice boom stand with markings Theo. Do you have a link by any chance to it?
I made the markings myself on the stand with a permanent marker 😊
Can i use a umik1 with audyssey? And what’s the best way to calibrate my room if i have 2 rows of seating. I have a Denon X4700h
@@Coffeedad no, you need to use an Audyssey calibrated mic.
When calibrating with dirac do you have to turn your avr to zero and turn up or the down the master volume slider up or down on the dirac software
You should be setting the volume for the mic and calibration level via the sliders in the Dirac software.
@@TheoNicolakis so will dirac automatically calibrate to reference no matter what the avr volume is set too
@@msoles30once you are in the software, Dirac, ARC, Audyssey please ignore what the AVR volume says and use the software. The software has control at that point.
Thanks for the video. What if the first row is 4 seats (ARC)? The reference position I’ve been using is between the two middle seats. Should I just pick one seat?
Since you are using Anthem ARC, you can try both options. Remember you can have up to 4 different calibration profiles. What I like to do in scenarios like this is measure at the center of the LCR speakers in the row OR focus on a single money seat.
I would therefore recommend selecting one as the money seat and doing a calibration there you could optionally do a then one focused with the speakers centered in the row. Then load each profile into the processor and then you could call up each profile as a separate input and do an A/B Comparison.
What about doing Audyssey room measurement where my front speakers are about 40" away from me and my surround speakers are 32" away from me? I believe my surround speakers are positioned about 115 to 120 degree angle and my fronts are about a 45 degree angle from the front center. Of course, since I live in a temporary space, I do not have room for a center speaker and so my Denon AVR-X3400H sends the center signal to my front left and right speakers.
My big problem is with the metal piece (kind of like a pillar) that kind of attaches from the ceiling. That metal piece reflects the low-mid frequencies of the front speakers and it sounds like a reverb. Given that I live in an unfinished basement in a rental house (I travel with my family as I work from home), there is just nothing I can do about it until I move out of an old house. If I want to get the best sound... I don't know how I can remove that tall metal piece that can move back and forth a bit... 😠 (laughs a little bit)
I have small children, so I set the points of Dirac a bit lower, don't know if it helps but they enjoy movie time 😅
Classic 😅
Excellent video. Wish you had taken a look at Yamaha and YPAO that so many seem to ignore or consider poor. I must admit after years with Yamaha that room correction is okay however using wide dispersion Philharmonic speakers I found that exact measured speaker placement, time alignment and level matching using my own tools gave me better results than using room correction and I now keep it off.
@mattgiunt YPAO is only good for levels and delays (usually not for subwoofers). Sadly Yamaha hasn't done much to improve it other than it does less harm then it used to post EQA calibration.
Great points. The reason for these three only is that I have extensive personal and professional experience with each and have had all in my setups. If I can get my hands on a Yamaha unit I’d be open to doing a YPAO segment and best practices there. The general concepts likely carryover to that as well, so you should be able to have some transfer over to YPAO.
@@Audioholics That's why shutting off parametric equalizer sounds so much better
Tue newest Dirac Firmware is a good one?
I am currently using 10.3 and haven’t yet tried the version 11 build. I did take a look at the tech notes and would not have any reservation with using version 11 and plan to do so when I get a chance.
@TheoNicolakis my Room is pretty symmetrical.On one Side is door ,on the other not.my subs (two) are dialed in -0.5db and the other one +4.5dB..sounds great.
Maybe they are Just "different" (of course exact same model) and while Volume calibration i also see diference in dB.
@@texxhexxmmyou can have two identical subs with drastically different in room responses. If that’s the case you may want to separate them into their own group in DIRAC. If this reflects what you are seeing the. Try that approach. Dirac recommends this and I’ll be covering it in a future segment on Dirac.
@TheoNicolakis i use Bass Control.The subs are in one group,meaning the corrected Bass Control curve Shows only one graph compared to Dirac live Version/Project without Bass Control.
@ got it. I’ve been using Dirac ART now for some time and ungrouping subs is possible there and the recommendation I offered was with an ART calibration
I’ve never been provided a good answer for the following. What if your row is 4 seats (ie. Not a centered RSP). Should you calibrate based on the center of the room between the two middle seats OR calibrate based on one of the two middle offset seats? What are the downsides to each? Anthem AVM90.
This is a great question and our multi-row recommendation still holds true regardless of the number of rows. We recommend picking a “money seat” as the RSP and performing a calibration.
If you are a Dirac user and have the ability to upgrade to ART, we’ll give you a teaser that the results in Theo’s theater with his Focal Astral 16 AVR and Focal 1000 Utopia speakers and RBH subs have been stellar. The bass response both seat to seat and throughout the room are very promising. We are looking forward to publishing the Dirac ART segment.
Will ART come to Marantz (in my Case Cinema 50)?
@@texxhexxmm Masimo has given no indication that any of the current 4 sub AV products from Denon and Marantz will support ART at this time or in the immediate future.
You said to vary the height of the microphone for each measurement then show us a rig you made that takes all 5 measurements at the same height????
Great question. I vary the height of the microphone stand between measurements. 😊 You’ll notice in some of the video segments if you look closely that I have the stand marked with inch markers so I can gauge the height.
That would have been a great time to show your marks on the stand.
I apologize for only criticizing because it's a great video! I will add that I've had great success using the storm audio patterns with my arcam processor.
@@williamwilson1393it was a good observation and question. I use the jig only with Audyssey with the unique aspects of their microphone. Certainly a Dirac user with the puck mic could do the same. I would strongly advise using a UMIC whenever possible. And yes the folks at Storm Audio have a great handle on the practical implementation of Dirac.
Thanks for asking that question so that this video segment can be even clearer for anyone referencing it
How does this change for a stereo only setup?
It does not. You will find some who argue to point the microphone AT the speakers and use the 0-degree calibration file and the software companies were a “NO” to that recommendation.
As Theo mentioned, the creators all recommend a 90-degree orientation for the microphone even if it is a stereo calibration. We made it a point to clarify this exact question from the source.
If your couch is up against the back wall how is it possible to get the MLP accurately measured if you suggest placing the mic 2 feet away from the back wall? - This would place the MLP too far foreword causing an incorrect 'focus' delay and gain... Also since your ears will be in the loading area, your MLP measurement needs to be in that same loading area so the bass mode gets reduced in the final calibration. Otherwise it will be way too boomy where you are sitting.
Only the first measurements is used for speaker trim and distance/delay. Next measurements are used for EQ average only
As @aurelienduplan9139 mentioned only the 1st measurement sets trim and delay. You can compensate for that AFTER the calibration. Having your microphone too close to a room boundary will give you destructive reinforcement and yield terrible calibration results. This is another one of the cases where “trust the science” holds true.
I noticed Anthony Grimani points his umik at 45 degrees. Any thought on why? th-cam.com/video/XNXQI-Sbv7w/w-d-xo.html
Unless I missed something in part one and the subsequent part two, Anthony is using REW not one of these packages nor does he state that he is setting up microphones at 45° should be set up at 45°. If you look closely the mics are at different angles typical of setup stages. The context of the video is that he is in a pre-calibration set up. In our particular used case, we are using room correction software with supply microphones that should be placed in a 90° orientation as re-confirmed in the user manuals and also by the manufacturers themselves in the peer review of this video. Hope that’s confirmation enough to point the mic at the ceiling 😊
@ Thanks for the reply. Girmani systems states in the comments of the video that the mics are at 45 degrees when doing EQ with REW using 90 degree calibration. I am wondering if I should do the same to get the best results with REW EQ and also when comparing the outcome of Audyssey with REW. I have tried comparing REW result using UMIK mic with Audyssey using the standard mic and get very different results at 45 and 90 except in the bass region. Mic up for auto for sure.
Damn, I have YPAO.😢
Use the concepts and basics outlined in this video and apply them to YPAO :-)
You mean 13 point measurement (Focsussed) ,9 and 17 !
We missed that in editorial. Thanks!
😅 my bad. 2 on EACH side make 13 measurement points. Thanks for catching that!
@@TheoNicolakis with neweset Firmware the Mic gain is not shown as 100% ,Just set fader to Zero DB?
@@texxhexxmmcan you help me with context? Are you referring to the new Dirac build? I am showed Dirac 10.3 and I saw in the tech notes they made some changes in version 11 to the volume and plan to install the update soon to see the UI changes.
@@TheoNicolakis yes .With 3.11 the Volume fader is " different.100% mic gain is gone.Now it Shows+30db(Max) and -20dB (Minimum).With 0dB point i get same Levels as before.Also the calibration does a better Job with less Problems,especially with umik2 . before i offen got imprecise measurement with Higher Positions closer to atmos speakers.
Do you also recommend going about +30db from noise floor for speaker gains?
A lot of great stuff here, but I don't agree with some of the advice. Having done quite a lot of statistics, it makes no sense to me to take measurements where your (or someone else's) ears won't be, and it makes no sense that fewer measurements would yield better results (given that they are taken in the right places, i.e. where ears will be). Why? When you take measurements, you are sampling from a population. All possible positions of ears are part of the same population that we want to sample from as we seek to infer the true parameters of the population (e.g. the frequency response etc.), all other positions belong to another (irrelevant) population. The laws of statistics say that the standard error decreases as you increase the number of measurements, i.e. more measurements will increase accuracy.
Unless ARC Genesis, Audyssey and/or Dirac does something dumb with the measurements in their processing (like averaging the measurements without time aligning them first), you should take as many measurements as you can in the locations where ears will/can be. I believe this is what Dirac tries to say when the advice you to take 9 tightly focused measurements for a single seat theater.
You can verify this for yourself by taking different number of measurements, calculate the average and standard error, and compare these values against different sets of measurements containing different number of data points (measurements). In order for 5 or 8 measurements to suffice, your population standard deviation would have to be infitely small, which I don't think it ever is (just look as the swings in the lower frequencies between different measurements, even ones that are close together).
Thanks for asking this question. Room correction solutions are far more sophisticated than taking an aggregate average of multiple measurements. These packages calculate direct, reflected sound, identify room modes, and address issues in the Time domain, measure the capabilities of speakers and automatically calculate optimal crossovers and more. The research and researchers of these various solutions all agree there are diminishing returns to an infinite number of measurements. We have interviews with some of the creators of the software packages as well as in-depth articles on the research and theories on the Audioholics website if you’d like to do a deeper dive on any of these topics. The simplest answer is just as you have an expertise in statistics, these researchers have extensive
expertise and years of research in acoustics and psychoacoustics. Trust the science.
@Audioholics Thank you. I understand. Statistical theory (the central limit theorem) still applies though, there is no getting around that. Increasing the number of samples will increase accuracy if you sample from the same population. You can't have worse results if you take more samples, given that you sample from the same population. However, you can have worse results if you sample from a different population without realizing it, such as measuring where your ears won't be. I'll reach out to Dirac and ask them, this needs to be cleared up.
Leave it to a Greek to make geometrical calibration jigs 😉
I try to make my ancestors Pythagoras and Archimedes proud! 😅
@@TheoNicolakis my grandfather is from the island of Samos. I went to see my heritage and got to see the Pythagoras Museum this summer. Funny enough, I’m a metrologist by profession and wonder if it’s because of the Greek in me lol. It’s in our heritage to measure things lol
@@tonygerassi1502I spent a few days on Samos in 1998. Amazing trip and enjoyed the island and the people tremendously! Of course Οι έλληνες will say it’s in our genes for sure ☺️