I have the LLL 8E (not collapsible) - have barely used another lens since falling in love with the 8E! A perfect balance of size, weight, sharpness, imperfections, just enough flare. For example the tiny summaron knock-off has soooooo much flare you need to use a hood, which defeats the purpose of the tiny size. Love love love this lens. LLL: sell me more things! Lol.
Great! The LTM version I have has the same flare pattern as your lens once the extra UV filter is removed. I still need to remove mine! Yes love LLL stuff. See the link below the video to get money off. They now have Elcan back in stock so I ordered a LTM version! Video to come.
I meant the 28mm 5.6 summarit copy in my comment above. That has too much flare. From my experience, the LLL products have hit the sweet spot. Though when it comes to your images, you could probably tape a coke bottle on the end of your camera and produce beautiful ones!
Hi Matt, because there is such a difference in the condition of the old lenses do you check for internal haze with a light or just daylight ? After cleaning a 50mm Elmar which had haze the difference was amazing.
Great question. Yes if you see haze in all bright conditions it normally means it needs cleaning, I had my Leica Summarit 50mm f1.5 cleaned and it helped a lot.
About flare, LLL developped a lens shade that they ship for free for those who bought the lens without one. What I don't like about the collapsible is the fidly change of aperture. This is why I ordered the rigid version as well
Thanks Steve, yes correct. I was trying not to bang on about LLL too much in this video as i'd recently covered the new hood in the LLL video. Totally agree with the rigid being more fun to operate! (I just ordered the Elcan in LTM now they are available again. Love it in M mount!)
Ha. You have me my video! 🍿 The thing is, I KNOW if I buy the clone I’m always going to have that scratch that I have to itch always bothering me “why didn’t I buy the Summicron. I didn’t buy the Summicron. I should’ve bought that Summicron”. So I think in the end I’m just going to get the new 35f2 Summicron ASPH. I think it’s the best compromise. For now my Nokton f1.4 II is doing great (although I’m not a fan of the stiff focus feel). I’m not so worried about the IQ because these lenses all give great IQ. I’m more concerned about the feel of the lens. Focus and aperture.
Thanks Carlos, yes if you stop the Crons down they get sharper (as you know) ..and if it saves you buying twice. I would say, if you want more character get the LLL 8E not the ASPH (and get the rigid LLL I think for a more Leica Cron feel). They feel like a Leica. Put a UV filter on the front and you wont know the difference.
I am interested in the LLL 8-element collapsible for its compactness, mount style look for a Barnack camera, and on the SL closer focus. But, now that the rigid version also come in an L39 LTM, I’m trying to decide between the two. The rigid version takes 39mm filters which I used with some other lenses for B&W, and handling seems better (I’ve had the v1 Summicron before). Question Matt.., have used both side-by-side, any thoughts, preferences, which would you get now that both are available in L39 LTM for Barnack/M-series/SL ??
Hi, great timing, there is a video coming on this. I swapped my collapsible seen here for the rigid. I prefer the rigid but miss the smaller size. I also tested vs. the Cron v1. Video coming soon.
Looking forward to your 8-element update. I was in contact with LLL with some questions and my thought/suggestion that they should make a clamp-on filter with a ‘lip’ for the hood much like the old pre-war filters (to get the filter behind the hood for better flare control). They informed me they are ‘much too busy’, and that anyway they haven’t made any 8-element collapsible lenses since 2023. So, that’s may be the end of that lens. That collapsible is a nice look and size for the Barnack, but the rigid is just better for use, handling and with standard 39mm filters (I really need my orange and yellow filters for B&W). Image quality should be the same? Except the collapsible built-in filter which adds another flare 2 surfaces [yes, filter can be removed].
Hi Matt, no pressure ;-) I’m still waiting for your 8-element (rigid vs collapsible) update. With the rigid version now being offered in LTM things are a bit more confusing for me [and I gather a change for you?]. Like you I’ll be using the lens on a similar combination of cameras; Barnack, M-series, and SL. The rigid version has better handling (but not a big deal for me), takes my 39mm filters, and made better long term built quality? The collapsible version just looks very cool/natural and a unique designed fast 35mm on a Barnack, focuses to .5m for use on the SL, the 43mm filters mounted on the outside of the hood is not ideal, and a bit cheaper as I find them on the used market (the rigid LTM version hasn’t hit the used market yet). And, then there is the used vintage lenses available; Nikkor 3.5cm f2.5 and Leica Summaron or even a very ‘pancake’ 3.5cm Elmar. Wish Voigtlander offered a new (like the 28/40) 35mm. Thoughts? One last question…, is the LLL L-mount-M-mount adapter worth the change from my very good but no close focus (adds another dimension) adapter and would add that closer focus to the rigid 8-element.
I own the LLL 45 8E rigid LTM. I’ve only used it on film so far. It was pricey but seems well made. So far I’m thinking I prefer the 50 Elcan clone. But I really need to shoot more rolls for both first.
Great, yes it seems good for the money when it outperforms the actual Leica lens (per this video test). I love LLL stuff. I just ordered the Elcan in LTM too now it's back in stock. Use my link below the video to get money off their stuff.
Thank you for this very interesting and informative review. The portraits look beautiful with both lenses. Regarding the 35mm Summicron-M, I notice that the original 8 element version of this lens is very popular, and would be curious to hear your review of that version if you ever get the chance. I'd guess -- and its purely a guess! -- that the version 1 is softer across the board and more prone to flare, but probably with the same amount, if not more, character, and, intriguingly, perhaps a different character than either the version 3 or the Light Lens Lab lens.
I have the Summicron and also the LLL version. I used to own a Summicron without goggles and one with goggles. I sold the one without goggles to get more money, but then I missed it, so I got one by LLL.
i found a very cheap copy with a little bit of fungus that i am having CLAd at the moment, i loved the samples i shot so far with my m10r , can't wait to get it back from cla
Very informative & lovely video - thank you - again and again!! As the prices (..greed demand) for the 'genuine' 8E are now (...'post-covid-speculative'..) skyrocketing - far beyond the ridiculous - the ultimate irony will be: going outside of the house only with the (excellent) LLL replica just for 'safety reasons', as we could somehow swallow the losses, if it got stolen.... Sad, really...! On the other hand: I really wish the very best for our Chinese friends, whose dedication, understanding, skill and no-nonsense build quality, deserves highest praise indeed! ..Now - there is evidently nothing wrong with the V.3 Summicron, either... Huge luxury problems on our hands!!! :-)))
Thanks Sean, I thought I'd found a workable method with the last video, around 70-80% AI adjusted track + overlaid with 20-30% original audio but this time it sounded too echoy so I had to do 90% AI edited which got me back to the robot sound. I might just try posted an unedited track and see if anyone complains (with the background hiss/buzz)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I know it's the most annoying comment to make, so I hope it's more helpful than bothersome! Lol. But I'd be curious to hear the unedited version.
If a non-Leica lens is to be the alternative, then I'd go with Zeiss. I am still not too happy with a third party manufacturer ' copying ' someone else's desgin.
When I bought a Goggles Summaron, was because It was Leitz! Easily afforded Voightlander! My Summaron is nicer than my stolen Summicron! The China lens look plain lousy.
I have the LLL 8E (not collapsible) - have barely used another lens since falling in love with the 8E! A perfect balance of size, weight, sharpness, imperfections, just enough flare. For example the tiny summaron knock-off has soooooo much flare you need to use a hood, which defeats the purpose of the tiny size. Love love love this lens. LLL: sell me more things! Lol.
Great! The LTM version I have has the same flare pattern as your lens once the extra UV filter is removed. I still need to remove mine! Yes love LLL stuff. See the link below the video to get money off. They now have Elcan back in stock so I ordered a LTM version! Video to come.
I meant the 28mm 5.6 summarit copy in my comment above. That has too much flare. From my experience, the LLL products have hit the sweet spot. Though when it comes to your images, you could probably tape a coke bottle on the end of your camera and produce beautiful ones!
@@Jack-qn6vy Thanks Jack!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom So how do I apply the discount code? Clicked the link and it just takes me to the site and no discount.
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Hi Matt, because there is such a difference in the condition of the old lenses do you check for internal haze with
a light or just daylight ? After cleaning a 50mm Elmar which had haze the difference was amazing.
Great question. Yes if you see haze in all bright conditions it normally means it needs cleaning, I had my Leica Summarit 50mm f1.5 cleaned and it helped a lot.
About flare, LLL developped a lens shade that they ship for free for those who bought the lens without one. What I don't like about the collapsible is the fidly change of aperture. This is why I ordered the rigid version as well
Thanks Steve, yes correct. I was trying not to bang on about LLL too much in this video as i'd recently covered the new hood in the LLL video. Totally agree with the rigid being more fun to operate! (I just ordered the Elcan in LTM now they are available again. Love it in M mount!)
Ha. You have me my video! 🍿 The thing is, I KNOW if I buy the clone I’m always going to have that scratch that I have to itch always bothering me “why didn’t I buy the Summicron. I didn’t buy the Summicron. I should’ve bought that Summicron”. So I think in the end I’m just going to get the new 35f2 Summicron ASPH. I think it’s the best compromise. For now my Nokton f1.4 II is doing great (although I’m not a fan of the stiff focus feel).
I’m not so worried about the IQ because these lenses all give great IQ. I’m more concerned about the feel of the lens. Focus and aperture.
Thanks Carlos, yes if you stop the Crons down they get sharper (as you know) ..and if it saves you buying twice. I would say, if you want more character get the LLL 8E not the ASPH (and get the rigid LLL I think for a more Leica Cron feel). They feel like a Leica. Put a UV filter on the front and you wont know the difference.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom nice one. Thanks.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Any noticeable distortion on the LLL 8E?
all very interesting ... much appreciated but why not use a lens shade??????
Thanks! I rarely use lens shades as I like a smaller camera to fit in my bag. (Even on my Leica Q it is without the shade*)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I never shoot without one.
I am interested in the LLL 8-element collapsible for its compactness, mount style look for a Barnack camera, and on the SL closer focus. But, now that the rigid version also come in an L39 LTM, I’m trying to decide between the two. The rigid version takes 39mm filters which I used with some other lenses for B&W, and handling seems better (I’ve had the v1 Summicron before). Question Matt.., have used both side-by-side, any thoughts, preferences, which would you get now that both are available in L39 LTM for Barnack/M-series/SL ??
Hi, great timing, there is a video coming on this. I swapped my collapsible seen here for the rigid. I prefer the rigid but miss the smaller size. I also tested vs. the Cron v1. Video coming soon.
Looking forward to your 8-element update. I was in contact with LLL with some questions and my thought/suggestion that they should make a clamp-on filter with a ‘lip’ for the hood much like the old pre-war filters (to get the filter behind the hood for better flare control). They informed me they are ‘much too busy’, and that anyway they haven’t made any 8-element collapsible lenses since 2023. So, that’s may be the end of that lens. That collapsible is a nice look and size for the Barnack, but the rigid is just better for use, handling and with standard 39mm filters (I really need my orange and yellow filters for B&W). Image quality should be the same? Except the collapsible built-in filter which adds another flare 2 surfaces [yes, filter can be removed].
Hi Matt, no pressure ;-) I’m still waiting for your 8-element (rigid vs collapsible) update. With the rigid version now being offered in LTM things are a bit more confusing for me [and I gather a change for you?]. Like you I’ll be using the lens on a similar combination of cameras; Barnack, M-series, and SL. The rigid version has better handling (but not a big deal for me), takes my 39mm filters, and made better long term built quality? The collapsible version just looks very cool/natural and a unique designed fast 35mm on a Barnack, focuses to .5m for use on the SL, the 43mm filters mounted on the outside of the hood is not ideal, and a bit cheaper as I find them on the used market (the rigid LTM version hasn’t hit the used market yet). And, then there is the used vintage lenses available; Nikkor 3.5cm f2.5 and Leica Summaron or even a very ‘pancake’ 3.5cm Elmar. Wish Voigtlander offered a new (like the 28/40) 35mm. Thoughts? One last question…, is the LLL L-mount-M-mount adapter worth the change from my very good but no close focus (adds another dimension) adapter and would add that closer focus to the rigid 8-element.
I own the LLL 45 8E rigid LTM. I’ve only used it on film so far. It was pricey but seems well made. So far I’m thinking I prefer the 50 Elcan clone. But I really need to shoot more rolls for both first.
Great, yes it seems good for the money when it outperforms the actual Leica lens (per this video test). I love LLL stuff. I just ordered the Elcan in LTM too now it's back in stock. Use my link below the video to get money off their stuff.
Thank you for this very interesting and informative review. The portraits look beautiful with both lenses. Regarding the 35mm Summicron-M, I notice that the original 8 element version of this lens is very popular, and would be curious to hear your review of that version if you ever get the chance. I'd guess -- and its purely a guess! -- that the version 1 is softer across the board and more prone to flare, but probably with the same amount, if not more, character, and, intriguingly, perhaps a different character than either the version 3 or the Light Lens Lab lens.
Thanks yes I’ll test one day if I get chance. The LLL has been
Shown to be similar I think.(see the recent Elcan vs Cron 50 video as a rough idea).
Is this v3 (as you say once) or v1?
V3, see the slide showing the list of the different versions. The LLL (silver lens) is a remake of the v1 Summicron
Good video Matt. Good story good samples to see the difference, job well done.
Thanks for sharing
Thanks Rob! Yes I was surprised by the difference in the corners.
The real 'Cron v1 8 elt is incredible especially in B&W
Thanks, a Patreon friend just got it so I’ll try to make a video comparing them
I have the Summicron and also the LLL version. I used to own a Summicron without goggles and one with goggles. I sold the one without goggles to get more money, but then I missed it, so I got one by LLL.
Thanks, yes I love the LLL lenses
i found a very cheap copy with a little bit of fungus that i am having CLAd at the moment, i loved the samples i shot so far with my m10r , can't wait to get it back from cla
Great stuff Marc, yes a fun little lens!
I’ve had the v3 for 50 years and I love how it renders. However, on those shots where I want sharpness and contrast, it’s a 40mm f2.8 Heliar for me..
Great! I'm glad you have the 40mm Heliar for those sharper images!
Very informative & lovely video - thank you - again and again!!
As the prices (..greed demand) for the 'genuine' 8E are now (...'post-covid-speculative'..) skyrocketing - far beyond the ridiculous - the ultimate irony will be: going outside of the house only with the (excellent) LLL replica just for 'safety reasons', as we could somehow swallow the losses, if it got stolen.... Sad, really...!
On the other hand: I really wish the very best for our Chinese friends, whose dedication, understanding, skill and no-nonsense build quality, deserves highest praise indeed!
..Now - there is evidently nothing wrong with the V.3 Summicron, either... Huge luxury problems on our hands!!! :-)))
Thanks and interesting to hear about the original 8E prices!
What about Voigtlander Apo Lanthar 35? :)
True, the V-APO is the best Voigtlander 35mm.. but I prefer the smaller Ultron
Yeah but the chrome lenses just look good on a Leica :)
Ha true! You need to get the 35mm LLL and their now adjusted 35mm metal finder. I'll bring the new one when I see you next. I have one coming.
My next purchase 😇
I love mine! Use the money off link below the video to save a little.
Just for reference, the sound is still bonkers on my end. Any low end range your voice gets into sounds like a demon, lol. But, still love the videos!
Thanks Sean, I thought I'd found a workable method with the last video, around 70-80% AI adjusted track + overlaid with 20-30% original audio but this time it sounded too echoy so I had to do 90% AI edited which got me back to the robot sound. I might just try posted an unedited track and see if anyone complains (with the background hiss/buzz)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I know it's the most annoying comment to make, so I hope it's more helpful than bothersome! Lol. But I'd be curious to hear the unedited version.
@@Seapatico latest video is unedited audio. I listen to your comments 👍🏻
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom It sounds great! At least through my headphones, I didn't notice any buzzing or anything, and there was no demon voice! 😎👍👍
😊
Thanks!
Krakov :P Nice
Yes! Well spotted
If a non-Leica lens is to be the alternative, then I'd go with Zeiss. I am still not too happy with a third party manufacturer ' copying ' someone else's desgin.
Yes Zeiss lenses are excellent
Voigtlander is the best third party by far.
When I bought a Goggles Summaron, was because It was Leitz! Easily afforded Voightlander! My Summaron is nicer than my stolen Summicron! The China lens look plain lousy.
Thanks Jason, yes the 2.8 Summaron is well regarded. I have the 3.5 LTM one.