EXCELENT my 03 SD had this in 2011 and this weekend..im origional owner and after googling, figured out this issue. your video is PERFECT as it confirms issue, and very good dash removal...thank you
really appreciate this video. I took my 03 F-350 V10 in and paid around $400.00 and they changed out my battery cables and called it good couple days later it was still doing it. I originally thought it was my overdrive button on the shifter lever. I'll just be driving and all electrical power and engine, power steering everything shuts down. I believe tour video just answered my problem. thanks.
You's awesome main! These videos have made my life of owning a ford excursion/super-duty sweet and simple. Kudos to you and many blessings ! keep up the good work !
I was having the same problem with my 2007 F150. Pushing the trip odometer when it happened was a temporary fix until I was ready to hand over the money for the dealership to replace the cluster (a.k.a. dashboard panel with the gauges). I haven't had a problem since. From what I have seen and read on the internet, this cluster issue is apparently fairly common, but the long-time intake guy at the dealer said he had never heard of or seen this problem before. I had to show him a video of the issue so he knew what I was talking about.
This is invaluable information! This is what TH-cam was made for. Thought my truck had a crazy electrical problem. I was thinking a ground to the chassis somewhere was bad, who knew? Contacting CBM tomorrow to get this done.
Competent engineers acting in the interest of the customer (and the environment) as well as the manufacturer, would've made it a more robustly connected, socketed relay placed outside the instrument cluster, such that it was easily replaceable.
Was driving my 04 f250 6.0 diesel today, looked down, no instrument panel. Thank you so much for posting this! I thought it might be a fuse or maybe my trailer wiring harness messed something up.
On my 2003 7.3, all I had to do was melt the solder where the relay legs went through the circuit board, and it has been good and solid for three years since. Besides getting the dash open, the cluster out and disassembled, and digging out my good temperature controlled soldering iron, this job took about 30 seconds. The issue is, with the power for so many things (headlight relay, radio, interior lighting, window motors, and dash illumination and whatever else I missed) running through the tiny pins of the miniature relay, they get warm... which, over time, through the differential thermal expansion of the two metals/alloys, causes thermal stress cracking between the solder and relay pin. This leaves the pin in a sleeve of solder without a solid, "melted together," physical connection. When a decent load is going through the circuit, and thus through the no longer soldered joint at the relay pin, arcing happens with vibration, each time there is any connection and disconnection, making the contact poorer, the connection more and more dirty with soot, getting hotter in operation when there is a connection, and also looser around the pin. This is why it becomes steadily more intermittent over time, and responds less and less to pounding on the dash, until one day... it doesn't. My guess is that in somewhere between 99% and 99.9% of cases, the relay it's self will last a number of years more, if the solder remelt is performed. You can pull the relay and examine for melting of the plastic housing near the load side/switched pins, and where the pins pass through the bottom of the casing. If there is no melted plastic, the relay is likely to be fine, and outlive the rest of the truck. Rebuilders just replace it because it is a cheap, though not easy for the inexperienced to find, part, and insurance that a damaged, or close to failing relay, does not cause them a costly come-back on the repair. NOTE!: If you go the "get a used one" or "junkyard pick" route, it would be a REALLY good idea to do the solder remelt proactively, as some amount of thermal stress cracking will be invisibly present, on any cluster that has been in service for a reasonable period of time, and gone through many heating and coolong cycles between times of use and disuse. If you are not able to solder, and don't have a friend with soldering experience, any electronics repair shop, should be able to do the solder remelt for you. If you have the cluster open, and circuit board open, most good small businesses, will not feel right charging you more than their minimum service fee, or anythng at all, for what will take 30 seconds to accomplish once the soldering iron is hot. Some auto repair shops will also have a tech who can perform the soldering part of this repair for you, if you bring them the whole cluster. They will love you even more, if you bring them the bare board. There are good videos here on youtube on how to open up the cluster and remelt the solder or replace the relay completely. This is a common problem in electronics, anywhere a "small for the load" pin, carries high current onto or off of a circuit board, or connects a device that uses a lot of power, or gets especially hot, to the board, and over the years I have seen it with everything from the flyback transformers running the built in displays on the original tombstone case macintosh computers, to a much more visually evident example, on the protection relay for one 240V, 7000 watt element, on a 4 element tankless electric water heater. That example was much more interesting and visually obvious, as when it finally completely failed, after a period of increasing intermittence, one of the 240 V switched relay contacts was literally vaporized off the circuit board, along with the surrounding trace material on the board, and the soot extended 3/4 of an inch on the board in all directions. Not being able to find that model of relay, and not knowing how to look up a replacement as the manufacturer of that relay had gone out of business, and not able to get a replacement circuit board for over a week, I got out my Dremel tool and ground away the plastic of the case until there was enough of the pin exposed to solder on a solid wire leg down to the circuitboard. Then had to add solid wire legs, of suitable length to the other 5 pins on the DPST relay, and was able to solder it back in place, and it worked again. In fact, even though I got a circuit board in the mail a week or so later, my repaired circuit board stayed in service for about a year and a half with no issues, other than it's UL listing being void. LOL! With that and a couple of other failures over the previous six years of living with the tankless electric water heater I bought the house with, I learned the main drawback of electric tankless instant hot water heaters, which is that when you have power, yes you have hot water heated instantly, but when the power goes out, you also instantly have no hot water. After the third or fourth electronic side or plumbing/housing leak side problem with that tankless electric, I switched to a tanked water heater. Where I live we get strong winter storms and short blackout periods of usually a few hours to half a day are not uncommon during big storms, and it is a heating only climate. Having placed the tanked water heater in a heated space of the house, heat energy lost from the water heater is just less heat that our electric furnace has to provide to that part of the house, so sticking with a complicated tankless electric design that had repeated failures, just didn't make sense, and it has been much nicer having a tank of hot water during those times when the power does go out. I hope my above ramblings, helps someone diagnose and fix their own problems, and/or someone else's. Thanks for reading, I hope you learned something, and have a great day!
Brian, quick question for you on these clusters: when the failure occurs, do the power door locks still function from the door switches? Thanks for the video!
I can’t believe that the first video I find where I was looking for a solution to this problem. I nailed it. Everything that you described what was going wrong was happening to my truck and I’ve had it for nine years with no problems except now that it sits a lot because I don’t use it as much the battery tends to die and I had to charge it several times. The truck was really dirty so I wanted to take it to the car wash it wouldn’t start so I use my battery starter to get it going everything worked great I drove it down there no issues on the cluster at all then the car was washed but they turned the engine off and when I went to start it it wouldn’t start so I plugged my charger back in it started but then as I started driving I realize nothing was working on the cluster I couldn’t lower my windows down I couldn’t adjust my mirrors and I thought something major was wrong. Of course this happens on the cusp of me wanting to sell this vehicle, just my luck. I’m going to do as you suggest, take the cluster out and see if I can get it either fixed or exchanged or go to the junkyard thanks for the information it was amazing
Great. Broke the trim on the radio with the 'release tool'.... Now I can't get the damn radio out. Thanks Ford for putting the two bolts above the radio!
I was just about to do this and thought I would double check the fuses. Sure enough it was #35 blown, I love these fixes. It must have happened when I was changing the rear cargo bulbs.
Hi. I have a 2002 Ford F-150. Dash lights do not work. I have no running lights In the rear. Everything else works radio emergency lights brake lights are all fine. I’m wondering if it might be that #35 also. I will check it tomorrow. Thank you for the information
Thank you for the video...had mine out a dozen or more times and never knew the shift indicator came off like that. I've been unscrewing/unhooking the cable and pulling it up with the cluster...will save some time next round. This board is a pita to repair, even with the right relay. (Solder joints like to melt at operating temp) I'm now replacing every drop of solder on the board with silver 60/40 silver solder. Thinking about offering the service once I get it down 110%. Going to be uv shielding the whole board when done and test it submerged in water. If I'm gonna do it, might as well improve it.
Coating and protecting the board will not slow down or prevent the thermal stress cracking at the tiny load side pins of this relay, that is the cause of this issue, but it will make it harder to remelt the solder when it happens again. A real upgrade would be to find a way to put a larger relay with bigger contacts/terminals that won't get as hot possibly even remote mounted outside the instrument cluster so that it can be replaced without opening the cluster
@@orcoastgreenman circuit board medics has a solid state relay they replace it with that doesn't produce nearly the same thermal load. Been running mine three years strong now.
thank you for helping us out all the time, what about the mileage counter, does that update from the pcm, or is it gonna show inaccurate mileage? thanks
Have an 02 F350 in the shop right now, a buddys work truck. Dead cluster, .14 amp draw on battery tracked down to fuse 35. Also dead radio, came on randomly after 15min of key on while checking fuses etc. lastly and most importantly, alternator not charging. Which I think is also related to this. Will remove cluster later and do some more diag when i can get to the charge indicator wire. 2022 update. almost none in my local junkyards, still a few available on some dealer shelves (10 in the US or so) price $850. Rebuild services range from 200-300 it seems.
My truck 2002 f250 sd has always had issues where the radio would turn on when it felt like it as well as the windows and if i would turn a map light i would lose radio etc. recently ive been chasing battery drains and i caught a .08amp draw when i would turn on the interior lights. i found out that if i pulled battery saver fuse amp draw would go down to .015. My cluster does work intermittenly but i wondering if it is related to what you are talking about. I'm thinking about making my own switched circuit. im not sure about my approach. im not sure the repair will cure the .08 draw.
Issues with that relay can cause all or just some of the problems said here. The one in my '02 Excursion was having issues and the windows, electronic climate control system, & radio didn't work, but I'm pretty sure the instruments stll worked fine. Other people on forums reported various different issues. I re-soldered the pins on the relay and everything went back to normal. Now, over a year later, I'm having other issues that are probably indicative of the relay but I haven't checked to be sure.
Can i use thick coat hanger ends in place of the radio removal tools in your video? Will this work or do i have to spend more $$ on the Ford Money Pit as usual?
this an old video but i just had the same problems in my 2002 7.3 and I disconnected my batteries, turned on the ignition and the lights with batteries disconnected, also hit the odometer reset, there's an instrument diagnostic computer there. And WALLA! everything came back on! Wahoo! And I have to admit, I did say a prayer before I turned on the key :D
Try this website to check which parts will interchange. Get the part number off your old cluster. It should be something like 2c3f 10849 FJ. The last two letters can vary.
I'm having an issue with fuse 41 blowing pretty often, causing radio, window, and visor lights not to work. Do you think the battery saver relay is the cause? Thanks in advance 05 f250
Would you possibly have a picture of the back of the cluster? I replaced my bulbs and stupidly pulled all the light sockets out at once so I do not know which ones go where since there are two different types.
I have an 04 F150 and just recently I lost the light behind the odometer on the bottom right side. Also the temperature often reads way off compared to the outside temp. And the compass is often wrong .All these issues are coming from the tiny cluster where it says door ajar and temperature.. Any ideas of what that may be? Thanks for your time.
I have a 97 expedition with 312,000 miles 5.4 oem everything (kept up oil changes ) works great,however it died out while turning hard left/right it did that twice. The last time it wouldn't come back on, i was thinking fuel slosh or maybe electrical ground when a hard enough turn, any suggestions?
I have a 04 f350 and the climate control panel doesn’t light up. Is there a fuse I can check, replace the bulb behind the panel or would I have to replace the whole unit? Thank you very much.
In your video where you have the State farm sticker I have a display window for the 2005 Mercury Mountaineer 6 cylinder. Can you tell me how to replace that panel?
i have a 03 excursion with a 6.0 my speedometer is working backwards. It reads 100+ till i get to about 35mph then it will read between 75 and 85 can you tell me what the problem is everything else works ( radio, windows)
Sounds similar to what’s going on with my ‘03 Excursion, my gas gauge reads empty but the digital display will read various different miles until empty, my radio and power windows will knock off at the same time, also there is a loud buzzing coming from the fuse box under the steering wheel. My mph gauge is fine just my gas gauge is acting up. Any idea what the problem is?
will this also cause relay 306 to not have power at the 30 pin? I found a fried wire in the fuse panel on the back side. I was also missing power to fuse 41 or in that area. I repaired the circuit bored on the back of the fuse panel. all fuses have power now, but still no windows, radio, and cluster. I do get battery, abs, and SRS lights. but nothing else. if I power the 306 relay. I get Windows. I have the dash apart so idk if the radio is working. but i did try another cluster before I found the issue in fuse block. should I try a test cluster again?
My 2005 f350 V10 gauges and radio going off and on not all the time but a few times during the day. I was told to check the grounding connection do you think that could be it or do you think that the cluster not working right ?
I have that problem with my 2002 F-250 truck with the windows and radio intermittently not working and then working but I am also seeing my check gauge light blinking on and off and my temperature gauge jumping up and down. Is that an issue with the cluster or a separate issue?
I have a 2005 f150 with column shifter. My shifter wont shift out of park, and my gauges in the instrument cluster are not working either. Both happened at same time, are these connected, I cannot figure out how to fix either one. I checked fuses they seemed to be good.
Have a 2002 ford excursion. Just put in my new head unit and my cluster and thermostat lights no longer work. But if i plug the wire back into the stock head unit it works. So obviously a wrong wire but the head unit and speakers are working fine and i matched wires correctly. I've installed many head units and never had this problem... Any ideas? Is the "illumination" wire off the head unit for dash illumination or head unit illumination?
This is a very helpful video. But be sure to reboot the system before you start tearing things apart and spending all that money. Apparently this "mother board" is just a computer and like your I phone, and PC a reboot helps at least it fixed my problem with the cluster etc. Works fine now. Worth a try for sure.
I have intermittent cluster issues, too, on 2005 F150. I bang on dash when it goes out and it comes back. But my LCD odometer will separately go out and banging does not work. I get it back when I disconnect the battery. LCD odometer comes back. That's what Steven may be thinking when saying reboot the dash.
So I have a 2005 F250 thats doing the exact same thing, and has been for about a year. Seems to only do it after it sets out in the rain. During a drought It never does it. But like I said, its the cluster, radio, and windows it affects. But you said the 2005s don't have the HECM. So what do I need to focus on?
Here ya go, i got a 97 f150 4x4 4.6lt with mechanical odometer, my odometer intermittently quit working usually notice when I jump a vehicle it stops working until I jump another vehicle then it will work my radio occasionally cuts out from side to side with the sound power locks don't work passenger window sometimes I have to start the truck to get the window to go up, iv tried researching to find some kinda of lead on the issue, GEM module or odometer? Please help i cant get rid of the truck
keep blowing fuse 35 which kills all you mentioned. Disconnected dash and fuse stopped popping. Could it be cluster or still possible wires beyond cluster?
My windows and radio have done it intermittently… mostly likely on wet, cold days…not the instruments… it is a 2002 7.3 diesel truck… in the beginning it happened when making a turn, or going over bumps..we replaces fuses, relays..but would come back. Dealers are clueless. Have 340,000 on it.
Question sir, I have had this happen and I am only getting 12.2 volts at the battery with the truck running. Will this effect battery voltage? I replaced the alternator and am still only getting 12.2 volts.
I've just bought a cluster from a junkyard it worked fine but the radio doesn't turn off whe I open the doors and the interior light is not working either do I need to replace the cluster again?
My 03 f350 the fuel gauge won’t read full when I fill it up. Could the cluster not working be the cause of that. It will also at random loose pw and the radio
I have a 2004 f250. I had this same issue with interior light, instrument panel, no power windows etc. Same as you described. I found s short in the back dome light which was blowing a 15 amp fuse. Fixed the short in the dome light, replaced the 15 amp fuse and problem fixed. Except now I have a check engine light and code uo155, which means loss of power to instrument cluster. I use scanguage 2 for diagnosing codes. How do I reset check engine now that the problem is repaired? Everything working great but the check engine light wont go off?
I have a 99 f250 diesel. The power window on the pass will roll down but not up. The driver side will not work for the pass side. Im getting power to the switch? Any recomendations?
I'm having the exact symptoms on my 2004 ford F150… I am thinking it's the cluster as well, I've tried replacing fuses and relays but the issue persists. Do you think it's my cluster?
2006 F350 6.0 intermittent loss of power windows, radio, gauge cluster, needles drop and lose there illumination but gauge back light stays on. Would love to know where to dig as there is a lot of bundled copper in these trucks!
hi i have a question see if you could please help me with it... i have a 98 ford expedition.. and everytime i pass the 30 miles an hour it burn a big 30 fuse.. people telling me its some sensor in the transmission but dont know exacly the name of it.. do you have a idea what it could be? thank you very much.
I have an 05 f350 6.0. I lose PW radio horn and gauges every once in a while. Tuner pulled code uo155 lost IPC communication. Is it definitely the cluster that went bad? Or could it be the wire harness going to the cluster? Or the gem board? Seems to happen more often on wet days. Any info is much appreciated. Thanks!! Brett
Brett Olsen On an 05 yes the clusters were known for this but remove the trim in front of it unscrew the cluster and wiggle the connector on it to try and duplicate first.
That was a good helper, which leads me to eliminate that as being my problem which leads me to figure on asking, is there another gadget that is just causing many of the idiot lights to go on for nothing as well as giving me a difficult time to be able to reset and not hold that reset after resetting? If you can refer me to another video if you know specifically what it is would be great! Otherwise thanks for this video and any other comments related to the car problem!
Could there be a problem in a 96 Bronco dash cluster that would make the alternator not charge possibly?? I’ve had nearly everything checked and can’t figure it out. 😭
I have a 2003 ford f250 7.3 that my fuel, RPM, and Transmission guage not working. I had the cluster repaired, I changed the cam sensor and check the wiring to the fuel tank and transmission temperature sensor. I have no burned fuses either. The only thing I think it could be is the computer. Can you think of anything else that could be wrong?
The end of my gear shift on my f350 ford came off. Wires came off. I put wires back on and now instrument panel lights not working and gas pedal are not working. Apparently I connected wires to wrong place. Now what?
Any ideas if the cluster works fine, but just doesn't light up? Also heater control lights don't light up. All exterior lights work. I blew the fuse for the park lights, replaced the fuse, but now no dash lights. Everything else works.
Hi I have a 2008 f-350 super duty with a parasitic drain of my battery (I have dual batteries), when my truck's ignition is shut down. I was told it is due to a drain coming from the instrument cluster. All my gauges work and my guess is they are accurate as far as temp and speed etc. My radio works but the radio display doesn't, my guess is the radio likely has an issue of it's own Do you think it is time for a swap out or repair of the cluster or is it more likely due to the wiring leading to the cluster? Thanks for your insight. For now I had a battery shut off switch put in when I park the vehicle..
I sent my board out got back after i paid 130.00 put back in now left side instrument cluster not working . . Pro said board fine did what had to be done . Do you know what I could check better yet do you know the problem?
My 2004 F-250 6.0 will not start and the only code showing is UO155, the tach does not work and the Tran and temp work sporadically. The truck would crank but not start without starting fluid and then it would run normal. Are the two issues related?
James R. I have a 2007 F150 FX4 that the radio and windows are cutting in and out some times. I saw the video and replace cluster but still having same issue. I have followed wiring and check all grounds, no loose grounds and no corrosion on grounds. I have not been abel to figure out what it is. Do you have any idea what it might be?
could this cause dash lights not to function, 03 f250 6.0 i have power coming out of the head light switch on my red and blue wire but no illumination in the cluster and climate control, everything else works fine.
I have the same issue even though I don't have power windows I got a two used instrument clusters and the dealer is not able to download the programming from the original have you had this issue.
What about 2005. I have no cluster or ac controls. My blinkers light up in dash cluster as does the airbag light and battery light. But no odometer or tach or gauges. And the blinkers flash quick.
Hi, This is great! I had a question, my speedometer and cluster seems to be working fine however, my radio and clock along with windows will not work sometimes. Then, the clock will come on but no radio or windows. Then it may come on. Most recently the A/C will go off completely either by itself or along with the radio and stuff. We have always had DVD issues, which no longer works. We used to bring it to Ford but they would keep it for a week and we would have to spend at least $1,000, etc and still have issues. Also, more recently the engine light came on for the glo-something or other. Is this all related/the same thing as what you are talking about? Why doesn't Ford know about this?? Thank you.
I have a 2003 F250 SD and at some point during the last few weeks my odometer started only showing 888888.8. Do you think this is related to the issue in your video and if not do you have an idea what might cause that and possibly how to remedy it?
I changed the batteries in my 00 F350 7.3. Now in the cluster only the speedometer doesn't work. Also the radio is dead. Everything else works, even the power windows. I changer all related fuses and still nothing. What should I do next?
Hello ford tech makuloco I have a 2001 ford f350 my windows don't work and sometimes they work seems to come back when it rains found my windshield leaking i replaced the leaking window my radio always stays when I remove my keep the chime keeps digging and when the truck is of the switch stay on very lightly any ideas where I can start ive checked for open wires but haven't found one yet
I got a 2000 mercury mountaineer and it's got the same problems. I changed out the cluster fuses relays and the gem module and i am having the same problem. Can someone please tell me how to fix it? Thanks
I have an 03 f350, that intermittantly does this more so when its hot and humid, but my cluster still works and so do my dome lights, it only affects radio and windows...
i have this problem on my 03 f250. cluster and battery charging at 9 volt and my alternator is like 2 weeks old. did i have a faulty alternator ir did my dead cluster cause this
My 02 f250 does that where everything stops working and if I slap the dash not hard above the 4×4 switch every thing comes back on, I think its wires or something
2003 7.3 excursion. From time to time the radio goes out, other times the AC goes out, other times the windows go out. Fairly random and not always all at the same time. Really sucks on a 100+ Texas summer day when the AC goes out at the same time as the windows. My cluster has never gone dead but I am wondering if it is same power delay relay. Any suggestions?
Did you ever find out what it was? Our 03 excursion is doing the same, when we driving the cluster does that, the air conditioning is off the radio is off everything on the cluster goes off. Thank you in advance.
Never figured it out. You’re the only reply I’ve had since I posted. Seems to be worse in the summer or when there is a drastic change in temperature but it so random I’m not even certain about that.
Mine is a 07 and is having the issue now as of this week but it started running rough when the dash stopped lighting up and few minutes later all came back and ran fine
@@SourGrey Did you check distribution box to see if after rain or moisture getting down to box and shorting out box? I had this problem,..it wasnt instrument panel
EXCELENT my 03 SD had this in 2011 and this weekend..im origional owner and after googling, figured out this issue. your video is PERFECT as it confirms issue, and very good dash removal...thank you
really appreciate this video. I took my 03 F-350 V10 in and paid around $400.00 and they changed out my battery cables and called it good couple days later it was still doing it. I originally thought it was my overdrive button on the shifter lever. I'll just be driving and all electrical power and engine, power steering everything shuts down. I believe tour video just answered my problem. thanks.
Once again, you've helped me greatly. This is my issue exactly. More like the H.E.LL cluster
You's awesome main! These videos have made my life of owning a ford excursion/super-duty sweet and simple. Kudos to you and many blessings ! keep up the good work !
you are a lifesaver! I'm buying a 2003 f 350 king Ranch, the guy was describing this problem.. now easy fix...THX
I was having the same problem with my 2007 F150. Pushing the trip odometer when it happened was a temporary fix until I was ready to hand over the money for the dealership to replace the cluster (a.k.a. dashboard panel with the gauges). I haven't had a problem since.
From what I have seen and read on the internet, this cluster issue is apparently fairly common, but the long-time intake guy at the dealer said he had never heard of or seen this problem before. I had to show him a video of the issue so he knew what I was talking about.
Dang! was hoping it was going to be a fuse. Love your vids and appreciate your time Sir!
This is invaluable information! This is what TH-cam was made for. Thought my truck had a crazy electrical problem. I was thinking a ground to the chassis somewhere was bad, who knew? Contacting CBM tomorrow to get this done.
Just another monster in the closet from Ford to there beloved customers.
Competent engineers acting in the interest of the customer (and the environment) as well as the manufacturer, would've made it a more robustly connected, socketed relay placed outside the instrument cluster, such that it was easily replaceable.
Thank you for ur time and the upload
Was driving my 04 f250 6.0 diesel today, looked down, no instrument panel. Thank you so much for posting this! I thought it might be a fuse or maybe my trailer wiring harness messed something up.
On my 2003 7.3, all I had to do was melt the solder where the relay legs went through the circuit board, and it has been good and solid for three years since. Besides getting the dash open, the cluster out and disassembled, and digging out my good temperature controlled soldering iron, this job took about 30 seconds.
The issue is, with the power for so many things (headlight relay, radio, interior lighting, window motors, and dash illumination and whatever else I missed) running through the tiny pins of the miniature relay, they get warm... which, over time, through the differential thermal expansion of the two metals/alloys, causes thermal stress cracking between the solder and relay pin. This leaves the pin in a sleeve of solder without a solid, "melted together," physical connection.
When a decent load is going through the circuit, and thus through the no longer soldered joint at the relay pin, arcing happens with vibration, each time there is any connection and disconnection, making the contact poorer, the connection more and more dirty with soot, getting hotter in operation when there is a connection, and also looser around the pin. This is why it becomes steadily more intermittent over time, and responds less and less to pounding on the dash, until one day... it doesn't.
My guess is that in somewhere between 99% and 99.9% of cases, the relay it's self will last a number of years more, if the solder remelt is performed. You can pull the relay and examine for melting of the plastic housing near the load side/switched pins, and where the pins pass through the bottom of the casing. If there is no melted plastic, the relay is likely to be fine, and outlive the rest of the truck. Rebuilders just replace it because it is a cheap, though not easy for the inexperienced to find, part, and insurance that a damaged, or close to failing relay, does not cause them a costly come-back on the repair.
NOTE!: If you go the "get a used one" or "junkyard pick" route, it would be a REALLY good idea to do the solder remelt proactively, as some amount of thermal stress cracking will be invisibly present, on any cluster that has been in service for a reasonable period of time, and gone through many heating and coolong cycles between times of use and disuse.
If you are not able to solder, and don't have a friend with soldering experience, any electronics repair shop, should be able to do the solder remelt for you. If you have the cluster open, and circuit board open, most good small businesses, will not feel right charging you more than their minimum service fee, or anythng at all, for what will take 30 seconds to accomplish once the soldering iron is hot.
Some auto repair shops will also have a tech who can perform the soldering part of this repair for you, if you bring them the whole cluster. They will love you even more, if you bring them the bare board.
There are good videos here on youtube on how to open up the cluster and remelt the solder or replace the relay completely.
This is a common problem in electronics, anywhere a "small for the load" pin, carries high current onto or off of a circuit board, or connects a device that uses a lot of power, or gets especially hot, to the board, and over the years I have seen it with everything from the flyback transformers running the built in displays on the original tombstone case macintosh computers, to a much more visually evident example, on the protection relay for one 240V, 7000 watt element, on a 4 element tankless electric water heater. That example was much more interesting and visually obvious, as when it finally completely failed, after a period of increasing intermittence, one of the 240 V switched relay contacts was literally vaporized off the circuit board, along with the surrounding trace material on the board, and the soot extended 3/4 of an inch on the board in all directions. Not being able to find that model of relay, and not knowing how to look up a replacement as the manufacturer of that relay had gone out of business, and not able to get a replacement circuit board for over a week, I got out my Dremel tool and ground away the plastic of the case until there was enough of the pin exposed to solder on a solid wire leg down to the circuitboard. Then had to add solid wire legs, of suitable length to the other 5 pins on the DPST relay, and was able to solder it back in place, and it worked again. In fact, even though I got a circuit board in the mail a week or so later, my repaired circuit board stayed in service for about a year and a half with no issues, other than it's UL listing being void. LOL!
With that and a couple of other failures over the previous six years of living with the tankless electric water heater I bought the house with, I learned the main drawback of electric tankless instant hot water heaters, which is that when you have power, yes you have hot water heated instantly, but when the power goes out, you also instantly have no hot water. After the third or fourth electronic side or plumbing/housing leak side problem with that tankless electric, I switched to a tanked water heater.
Where I live we get strong winter storms and short blackout periods of usually a few hours to half a day are not uncommon during big storms, and it is a heating only climate. Having placed the tanked water heater in a heated space of the house, heat energy lost from the water heater is just less heat that our electric furnace has to provide to that part of the house, so sticking with a complicated tankless electric design that had repeated failures, just didn't make sense, and it has been much nicer having a tank of hot water during those times when the power does go out.
I hope my above ramblings, helps someone diagnose and fix their own problems, and/or someone else's. Thanks for reading, I hope you learned something, and have a great day!
Dude, that was most helpful! I’ve got a 04 f250 with that problem. I’m gonna do the solder remelt thing and see if it works.
Thanks!
Thanks for the info! Gotta 2004 f250 that’s acting up.
Brian, quick question for you on these clusters: when the failure occurs, do the power door locks still function from the door switches? Thanks for the video!
I can’t believe that the first video I find where I was looking for a solution to this problem. I nailed it.
Everything that you described what was going wrong was happening to my truck and I’ve had it for nine years with no problems except now that it sits a lot because I don’t use it as much the battery tends to die and I had to charge it several times.
The truck was really dirty so I wanted to take it to the car wash it wouldn’t start so I use my battery starter to get it going everything worked great I drove it down there no issues on the cluster at all then the car was washed but they turned the engine off and when I went to start it it wouldn’t start so I plugged my charger back in it started but then as I started driving I realize nothing was working on the cluster I couldn’t lower my windows down I couldn’t adjust my mirrors and I thought something major was wrong. Of course this happens on the cusp of me wanting to sell this vehicle, just my luck.
I’m going to do as you suggest, take the cluster out and see if I can get it either fixed or exchanged or go to the junkyard thanks for the information it was amazing
What did you end up doing ?
Great. Broke the trim on the radio with the 'release tool'.... Now I can't get the damn radio out. Thanks Ford for putting the two bolts above the radio!
I was just about to do this and thought I would double check the fuses. Sure enough it was #35 blown, I love these fixes. It must have happened when I was changing the rear cargo bulbs.
Hi. I have a 2002 Ford F-150. Dash lights do not work. I have no running lights In the rear. Everything else works radio emergency lights brake lights are all fine. I’m wondering if it might be that #35 also. I will check it tomorrow. Thank you for the information
don't even own a ford anymore but I still like watching these vids.
learn something everytime
Good to hear!
You just made my day thank you so much
Thank you for the video...had mine out a dozen or more times and never knew the shift indicator came off like that. I've been unscrewing/unhooking the cable and pulling it up with the cluster...will save some time next round. This board is a pita to repair, even with the right relay. (Solder joints like to melt at operating temp) I'm now replacing every drop of solder on the board with silver 60/40 silver solder. Thinking about offering the service once I get it down 110%. Going to be uv shielding the whole board when done and test it submerged in water. If I'm gonna do it, might as well improve it.
Coating and protecting the board will not slow down or prevent the thermal stress cracking at the tiny load side pins of this relay, that is the cause of this issue, but it will make it harder to remelt the solder when it happens again. A real upgrade would be to find a way to put a larger relay with bigger contacts/terminals that won't get as hot possibly even remote mounted outside the instrument cluster so that it can be replaced without opening the cluster
@@orcoastgreenman circuit board medics has a solid state relay they replace it with that doesn't produce nearly the same thermal load. Been running mine three years strong now.
Excellent video. I need to send mine out for a solder re-flow. Thanks for posting!
thank you for helping us out all the time, what about the mileage counter, does that update from the pcm, or is it gonna show inaccurate mileage? thanks
Have an 02 F350 in the shop right now, a buddys work truck. Dead cluster, .14 amp draw on battery tracked down to fuse 35. Also dead radio, came on randomly after 15min of key on while checking fuses etc. lastly and most importantly, alternator not charging. Which I think is also related to this. Will remove cluster later and do some more diag when i can get to the charge indicator wire. 2022 update. almost none in my local junkyards, still a few available on some dealer shelves (10 in the US or so) price $850. Rebuild services range from 200-300 it seems.
Very good info thank you!
Thanks!
I like this one dude, thanks.
FordTechMakuloco
Always great has videos !
My truck 2002 f250 sd has always had issues where the radio would turn on when it felt like it as well as the windows and if i would turn a map light i would lose radio etc. recently ive been chasing battery drains and i caught a .08amp draw when i would turn on the interior lights. i found out that if i pulled battery saver fuse amp draw would go down to .015. My cluster does work intermittenly but i wondering if it is related to what you are talking about. I'm thinking about making my own switched circuit. im not sure about my approach. im not sure the repair will cure the .08 draw.
Issues with that relay can cause all or just some of the problems said here. The one in my '02 Excursion was having issues and the windows, electronic climate control system, & radio didn't work, but I'm pretty sure the instruments stll worked fine. Other people on forums reported various different issues. I re-soldered the pins on the relay and everything went back to normal. Now, over a year later, I'm having other issues that are probably indicative of the relay but I haven't checked to be sure.
Can i use thick coat hanger ends in place of the radio removal tools in your video? Will this work or do i have to spend more $$ on the Ford Money Pit as usual?
this an old video but i just had the same problems in my 2002 7.3 and I disconnected my batteries, turned on the ignition and the lights with batteries disconnected, also hit the odometer reset, there's an instrument diagnostic computer there. And WALLA! everything came back on! Wahoo! And I have to admit, I did say a prayer before I turned on the key :D
Will a cluster from 2005 f250 6.0 work In my damaged 2004 f250 5.4?
Try this website to check which parts will interchange. Get the part number off your old cluster. It should be something like 2c3f 10849 FJ. The last two letters can vary.
Thank you! Also can go to Automotive Circuit Solutions in Ozark Missouri for the relay repair.
I'm having an issue with fuse 41 blowing pretty often, causing radio, window, and visor lights not to work. Do you think the battery saver relay is the cause? Thanks in advance 05 f250
Would you possibly have a picture of the back of the cluster? I replaced my bulbs and stupidly pulled all the light sockets out at once so I do not know which ones go where since there are two different types.
I have an 04 F150 and just recently I lost the light behind the odometer on the bottom right side. Also the temperature often reads way off compared to the outside temp. And the compass is often wrong .All these issues are coming from the tiny cluster where it says door ajar and temperature.. Any ideas of what that may be? Thanks for your time.
I have a 97 expedition with 312,000 miles 5.4 oem everything (kept up oil changes ) works great,however it died out while turning hard left/right it did that twice. The last time it wouldn't come back on, i was thinking fuel slosh or maybe electrical ground when a hard enough turn, any suggestions?
man i got a question. where is the ground for the cluster on my 99 mustang gt my gauges are giving me a bad reading thanks for the help
great video
I have a 04 f350 and the climate control panel doesn’t light up. Is there a fuse I can check, replace the bulb behind the panel or would I have to replace the whole unit?
Thank you very much.
In your video where you have the State farm sticker I have a display window for the 2005 Mercury Mountaineer 6 cylinder. Can you tell me how to replace that panel?
i have a 03 excursion with a 6.0 my speedometer is working backwards. It reads 100+ till i get to about 35mph then it will read between 75 and 85 can you tell me what the problem is everything else works ( radio, windows)
Sounds similar to what’s going on with my ‘03 Excursion, my gas gauge reads empty but the digital display will read various different miles until empty, my radio and power windows will knock off at the same time, also there is a loud buzzing coming from the fuse box under the steering wheel. My mph gauge is fine just my gas gauge is acting up. Any idea what the problem is?
will this also cause relay 306 to not have power at the 30 pin? I found a fried wire in the fuse panel on the back side. I was also missing power to fuse 41 or in that area. I repaired the circuit bored on the back of the fuse panel. all fuses have power now, but still no windows, radio, and cluster. I do get battery, abs, and SRS lights. but nothing else. if I power the 306 relay. I get Windows. I have the dash apart so idk if the radio is working. but i did try another cluster before I found the issue in fuse block. should I try a test cluster again?
My 2005 f350 V10 gauges and radio going off and on not all the time but a few times during the day. I was told to check the grounding connection do you think that could be it or do you think that the cluster not working right ?
I have that problem with my 2002 F-250 truck with the windows and radio intermittently not working and then working but I am also seeing my check gauge light blinking on and off and my temperature gauge jumping up and down. Is that an issue with the cluster or a separate issue?
I have a 2005 f150 with column shifter. My shifter wont shift out of park, and my gauges in the instrument cluster are not working either. Both happened at same time, are these connected, I cannot figure out how to fix either one. I checked fuses they seemed to be good.
My 2002 f250 had the 74 bulbs....the ones that are allot smaller than 194's.
I like to put a new dash gauge into my 2006 Ford f350 6.0 i like the chrome they have around the gauges what can I go 3 year new different on a model
Also I find if I push on the blue power clip it turns back on should I just degrease it?
Have a 2002 ford excursion. Just put in my new head unit and my cluster and thermostat lights no longer work. But if i plug the wire back into the stock head unit it works. So obviously a wrong wire but the head unit and speakers are working fine and i matched wires correctly. I've installed many head units and never had this problem... Any ideas? Is the "illumination" wire off the head unit for dash illumination or head unit illumination?
The instrument cluster in my 01 F250 super duty 6.8 went completely out on me back on July 3 2019... Haven't been able to get it work since.
My 09 f150 cluster works intermittently when I start the engine. however, it works properly when I just switch the battery on. Any thought?
You are the best!!
This is a very helpful video. But be sure to reboot the system before you start tearing things apart and spending all that money. Apparently this "mother board" is just a computer and like your I phone, and PC a reboot helps at least it fixed my problem with the cluster etc. Works fine now. Worth a try for sure.
+Steven Staveley How do you reboot the dash mother board?
I have intermittent cluster issues, too, on 2005 F150. I bang on dash when it goes out and it comes back. But my LCD odometer will separately go out and banging does not work. I get it back when I disconnect the battery. LCD odometer comes back. That's what Steven may be thinking when saying reboot the dash.
What is the process to reboot ?
So I have a 2005 F250 thats doing the exact same thing, and has been for about a year. Seems to only do it after it sets out in the rain. During a drought It never does it. But like I said, its the cluster, radio, and windows it affects. But you said the 2005s don't have the HECM. So what do I need to focus on?
Here ya go, i got a 97 f150 4x4 4.6lt with mechanical odometer, my odometer intermittently quit working usually notice when I jump a vehicle it stops working until I jump another vehicle then it will work my radio occasionally cuts out from side to side with the sound power locks don't work passenger window sometimes I have to start the truck to get the window to go up, iv tried researching to find some kinda of lead on the issue, GEM module or odometer? Please help i cant get rid of the truck
keep blowing fuse 35 which kills all you mentioned. Disconnected dash and fuse stopped popping. Could it be cluster or still possible wires beyond cluster?
My windows and radio have done it intermittently… mostly likely on wet, cold days…not the instruments… it is a 2002 7.3 diesel truck… in the beginning it happened when making a turn, or going over bumps..we replaces fuses, relays..but would come back. Dealers are clueless. Have 340,000 on it.
Question sir, I have had this happen and I am only getting 12.2 volts at the battery with the truck running. Will this effect battery voltage? I replaced the alternator and am still only getting 12.2 volts.
I've just bought a cluster from a junkyard it worked fine but the radio doesn't turn off whe I open the doors and the interior light is not working either do I need to replace the cluster again?
My 03 f350 the fuel gauge won’t read full when I fill it up. Could the cluster not working be the cause of that. It will also at random loose pw and the radio
I have a 2004 f250. I had this same issue with interior light, instrument panel, no power windows etc. Same as you described. I found s short in the back dome light which was blowing a 15 amp fuse. Fixed the short in the dome light, replaced the 15 amp fuse and problem fixed. Except now I have a check engine light and code uo155, which means loss of power to instrument cluster. I use scanguage 2 for diagnosing codes.
How do I reset check engine now that the problem is repaired? Everything working great but the check engine light wont go off?
see here- How To Clear your PCM'S Memory on Fords After Repairs
I have a 99 f250 diesel. The power window on the pass will roll down but not up. The driver side will not work for the pass side. Im getting power to the switch? Any recomendations?
would this cause the battery to die when sitting for a few days as well?
I'm having the exact symptoms on my 2004 ford F150… I am thinking it's the cluster as well, I've tried replacing fuses and relays but the issue persists. Do you think it's my cluster?
2006 F350 6.0 intermittent loss of power windows, radio, gauge cluster, needles drop and lose there illumination but gauge back light stays on. Would love to know where to dig as there is a lot of bundled copper in these trucks!
Thanks for sharing your videos and experience. Can this cause your alternator to not charge?
My issue too. Alternator is not charging. Replaced with a new one, still no charge
Same here,,, changing it work for you?????
Thanks for sharing
hi i have a question see if you could please help me with it... i have a 98 ford expedition.. and everytime i pass the 30 miles an hour it burn a big 30 fuse.. people telling me its some sensor in the transmission but dont know exacly the name of it.. do you have a idea what it could be? thank you very much.
I have an 05 f350 6.0. I lose PW radio horn and gauges every once in a while. Tuner pulled code uo155 lost IPC communication. Is it definitely the cluster that went bad? Or could it be the wire harness going to the cluster? Or the gem board? Seems to happen more often on wet days. Any info is much appreciated. Thanks!!
Brett
Brett Olsen On an 05 yes the clusters were known for this but remove the trim in front of it unscrew the cluster and wiggle the connector on it to try and duplicate first.
same
Same thing is going on with my 2005 F-350
That was a good helper, which leads me to eliminate that as being my problem which leads me to figure on asking, is there another gadget that is just causing many of the idiot lights to go on for nothing as well as giving me a difficult time to be able to reset and not hold that reset after resetting? If you can refer me to another video if you know specifically what it is would be great! Otherwise thanks for this video and any other comments related to the car problem!
Could there be a problem in a 96 Bronco dash cluster that would make the alternator not charge possibly?? I’ve had nearly everything checked and can’t figure it out. 😭
I have a 2003 ford f250 7.3 that my fuel, RPM, and Transmission guage not working. I had the cluster repaired, I changed the cam sensor and check the wiring to the fuel tank and transmission temperature sensor. I have no burned fuses either. The only thing I think it could be is the computer. Can you think of anything else that could be wrong?
The end of my gear shift on my f350 ford came off. Wires came off. I put wires back on and now instrument panel lights not working and gas pedal are not working. Apparently I connected wires to wrong place. Now what?
What about if only the gauges and odometer don’t work?. Radio and windows, also turn signals do. Checked fuses 34,41 and one other.
Any ideas if the cluster works fine, but just doesn't light up? Also heater control lights don't light up. All exterior lights work. I blew the fuse for the park lights, replaced the fuse, but now no dash lights. Everything else works.
would this issue cause a random stalling in 03 6.0?
What about if your not having no issues with tge radio but the mileage abd gauges or dead..
How about the mileage, did it all remain the same ?
Hi I have a 2008 f-350 super duty with a parasitic drain of my battery (I have dual batteries), when my truck's ignition is shut down. I was told it is due to a drain coming from the instrument cluster. All my gauges work and my guess is they are accurate as far as temp and speed etc. My radio works but the radio display doesn't, my guess is the radio likely has an issue of it's own Do you think it is time for a swap out or repair of the cluster or is it more likely due to the wiring leading to the cluster? Thanks for your insight. For now I had a battery shut off switch put in when I park the vehicle..
+zrabbithunter I would perform an actual parasitic drain test to see if it is the cluster first.
I have the SAME ISSUE with my 2005 e450 bus
Did you ever get it fixed?
I'm having the same issues with a 08 550 some of the codes are b1317 u0155 etc...
I sent my board out got back after i paid 130.00 put back in now left side instrument cluster not working . . Pro said board fine did what had to be done . Do you know what I could check better yet do you know the problem?
i have a 10/04 f450 w6.0 . no gages, no radio, no dome light. was working fine, and then nothing,trans also slipping since this isue started.
Automotive Circuit Solutions out of marshfield Mo has a 24 hr turnaround on fixing those dash clusters
My 2004 F-250 6.0 will not start and the only code showing is UO155, the tach does not work and the Tran and temp work sporadically. The truck would crank but not start without starting fluid and then it would run normal. Are the two issues related?
James R. I have a 2007 F150 FX4 that the radio and windows are cutting in and out some times. I saw the video and replace cluster but still having same issue. I have followed wiring and check all grounds, no loose grounds and no corrosion on grounds. I have not been abel to figure out what it is. Do you have any idea what it might be?
Ever figure it out, I have the same issue going on now
could this cause dash lights not to function, 03 f250 6.0 i have power coming out of the head light switch on my red and blue wire but no illumination in the cluster and climate control, everything else works fine.
I have the same issue even though I don't have power windows I got a two used instrument clusters and the dealer is not able to download the programming from the original have you had this issue.
What about 2005. I have no cluster or ac controls. My blinkers light up in dash cluster as does the airbag light and battery light. But no odometer or tach or gauges. And the blinkers flash quick.
Hi, This is great! I had a question, my speedometer and cluster seems to be working fine however, my radio and clock along with windows will not work sometimes. Then, the clock will come on but no radio or windows. Then it may come on. Most recently the A/C will go off completely either by itself or along with the radio and stuff. We have always had DVD issues, which no longer works. We used to bring it to Ford but they would keep it for a week and we would have to spend at least $1,000, etc and still have issues. Also, more recently the engine light came on for the glo-something or other. Is this all related/the same thing as what you are talking about? Why doesn't Ford know about this?? Thank you.
Did you ever figure out your problem? I’m having the same issue with my ac and heat going out at random times
I have a 2003 F250 SD and at some point during the last few weeks my odometer started only showing 888888.8. Do you think this is related to the issue in your video and if not do you have an idea what might cause that and possibly how to remedy it?
Ever fix this?
What are those connectors for the blue white stripe and tan/brown with white stripe
I changed the batteries in my 00 F350 7.3. Now in the cluster only the speedometer doesn't work. Also the radio is dead. Everything else works, even the power windows. I changer all related fuses and still nothing. What should I do next?
I have a expedition that clicks underpass. With heater will run and crackle noise out of stereo with the key out of ignition any idea?
Hello ford tech makuloco I have a 2001 ford f350 my windows don't work and sometimes they work seems to come back when it rains found my windshield leaking i replaced the leaking window my radio always stays when I remove my keep the chime keeps digging and when the truck is of the switch stay on very lightly any ideas where I can start ive checked for open wires but haven't found one yet
I got a 2000 mercury mountaineer and it's got the same problems. I changed out the cluster fuses relays and the gem module and i am having the same problem. Can someone please tell me how to fix it? Thanks
I have an 03 f350, that intermittantly does this more so when its hot and humid, but my cluster still works and so do my dome lights, it only affects radio and windows...
Mine too,02, 250 diesel…
Did you have blown fuses when you had this issue
i have this problem on my 03 f250. cluster and battery charging at 9 volt and my alternator is like 2 weeks old. did i have a faulty alternator ir did my dead cluster cause this
My 02 f250 does that where everything stops working and if I slap the dash not hard above the 4×4 switch every thing comes back on, I think its wires or something
2003 7.3 excursion. From time to time the radio goes out, other times the AC goes out, other times the windows go out. Fairly random and not always all at the same time. Really sucks on a 100+ Texas summer day when the AC goes out at the same time as the windows. My cluster has never gone dead but I am wondering if it is same power delay relay. Any suggestions?
Did you ever find out what it was? Our 03 excursion is doing the same, when we driving the cluster does that, the air conditioning is off the radio is off everything on the cluster goes off. Thank you in advance.
Never figured it out. You’re the only reply I’ve had since I posted. Seems to be worse in the summer or when there is a drastic change in temperature but it so random I’m not even certain about that.
If your cluster is going off also, it’s probably the relay that this video is about. What’s weird about mine is my cluster never goes off.
you mention this is only on 02-04 but my 07 f250 has the exact same symptoms (dash. .windows..radio off)
@Its_an_Invasion_LowInfo_Votees 😑😑😑 having electrical problem with 2005 e450 center consol buttons stay on. Power stays on with engine off.
Mine is a 07 and is having the issue now as of this week but it started running rough when the dash stopped lighting up and few minutes later all came back and ran fine
@@SourGrey Did you check distribution box to see if after rain or moisture getting down to box and shorting out box? I had this problem,..it wasnt instrument panel
@@dianereinhart9712 it seemed dry
@@dianereinhart9712 what truck you have?