I’ve only got classic star ratchet hubs, 7 sets and counting (240 & 350). They all work perfectly all the time. One thing that was not mentioned was the ease of conversion for different frame axle types, esp with the 350. From 12x100 -> 12x197 and everything in between.
I was really hoping that this video would go more into the intricacies of the generations of models. It was amazing pre-2022, everything was interchangeable, now there are 2 new systems with more problems than improvements. Please DT at least bring back a legacy 350!
Great video! Doing a Fargo build and going with the DT Swiss EX 1700 Spline. Looks to be bomb proof and can maintain offgrid bikepacking. Pairing with Rene Herse Fleecer Ridge 2.2" tubeless.
Better than I9, especially in terms of durability on single speeds. DT Swiss is the standard by which all other free hubs should be measured. I thought I9 Hydras would be the ultimate for the situations Neil detailed at 6:30, but the freehub just wouldn’t hold up after two years singlespeding with hard ratcheting through technical terrain of the Granite Dells here in Prescott, AZ.
The classic design with the two floating ratchets came out of patent, which is why everyone is making that style hub now. Basically everyone in China copied the design. As a result, DT Swiss introduced the EXP to get a new patent. I don't think the EXP is a real improvement, in fact because it requires a tool it's arguably a tiny bit worse. I will say that I have two sets of 240 EXPs and they work fine after many thousands of miles. These hubs are all very, very reliable. The new DEG is likely very, very loud.
@5:18 does "by hand" mean none of the cartridge bearings in the hub shell or freehub need a puller or press tool to remove or install? Also, I'm considering getting a 2024 Canyon Spectral CF 7 that comes with DT Swill M1900 wheels that have the 6 bolt method of rotor mount. The DT Swiss site only shows a Centerlock mount M1900 wheelset though. So can you tell me exactly what model of hub that bike has, and will I need a puller or press tool for the bearings? Lastly, do you make a hub that is both straight pull spoke design, AND tool free bearing maintenance? Thank you
350s are the key (some odd proprietary cups for the 240s). Get these hubs, enjoy the super reliability, middle of the road pricing, almost entirely future proof and spares super easily had (even 2nd hand, no other hub would you find so many freehubs or even ratchets available on the used market). DT Swiss have obviously made the EXP (to optimise for weight) and DEG (to optimise for engagement) to differentiate themselves for the future (since their Ratchet patent expired in 2020 more or less, other brands are now copying/making variations of the venerable dual-ratchet system). Both are nice little optimisations but in the grand scheme of things, the majority of people would benefit more from the old designs interchangeability > the additional cost and benefits from EXP or DEG.
Love my Star Ratchet freehubs. Both my Megatrail and my fatbike wheels have DT Swiss. Love Chris King too....just can't afford em. Converting crappy freehubs to star ratchet is so easy, cost effective, and worthwhile!
DT Swiss is no longer the only game in town for this style of hub. OneUp does a good version of it, and if you're really looking for value for dollar then Koozer is excellent too. I build DT Swiss-based wheelsets for people willing to pay the premium for name recognition, but on my own bikes, I run Light Bicycle carbon rims on Koozer 450 standard pawl (120 poe) for street trials, and Koozer 350 star ratchet for trail and bikepacking. Both are as reliable as DT Swiss.
I'm running the One-up hubs, 44t engagement is a good spot for single-speeding and you get a choice of colors to boot. The star-ratchet patent running out was a big boon for the industry.
I have a DT Swiss dual ratchet model with 54 teeth engagement. After about 10000 miles of use, on a lot of hills, the ratchet teeth began to skip with a pretty horrible sound. I have sense replaced the ratchet - all good. I have kept the hub clean and greased. Inspection of the ratchets closely showed they had worn and were a bit rounded. They are easy to service, but if the fail one has a very noisy ride to get home as the teeth skip over each other. Question - would going to a lower number of ratchet teeth make the hub more reliable ?
Yes, lower number of teeth makes the corner of the tooth less sharp. So as a result it is harder to chip off. It also makes the freewheel take slightly less energy, and is a bit quieter.
Still waiting for the EXP OS 54T version for ebikes. Only 32T so far and I don't think that's enough. So for now I just ride a 54T ratchet and hope it holds up to the Newtons.
I don’t want any loud noises from my bike. No creaks and no loud freewheels. The DT hubs I’ve heard are very loud when coasting. Quiet rear hubs (freewheels) are a must.
I'm glad they changed the design to a no tools design, especially as I have the old model & can't get the ring out, so can't replace the knackered bearing 🙁
i got a new Santa Cruz gravel bike and it came with DT370 hubs .I was wondering its completely silent :) . WHICH is wonderful quite . HAVE you tried these ?
I don't like noisy hubs. Drives me mad after a while. I'm using nukeproof pro hub, and it's not stupidly loud. My friend has a noisy hub, and people still get in his way and ignore the noise. Lol.
Those guys barely have a clue of what they are talking about. The champion spoke for example is about the worst spoke to choose for a bike packing built. Expect maybe in the case that you are super heavy and on a tight budget without worrying about longevity. If longevity is on your list you should definitely choose a butted spoke because they tend to reduce the stresses away from the hub and rim interfaces which are most prone to fatigue cracks especially with j-ben spokes. Also as he mentioned... the ride feel improves. Also both of these guys failed to mention the slightly optimized bearing location of the exp and deg hubs. But all in all the quality of DT Swiss products is impeccable but in choosing the right product for you one should use their own brain and not just follow the marketing talk of any questionable pr guys.
My first experience with ratchet design wasn't good. The ratchets have to be immaculately clean or they won't engage correctly and can get damaged leading to failure over time. Not a big deal EXCEPT when I needed to work on my wheel trailside and the entire cassette popped off and the greased ratchets fell in the dirt. Fast forward a week and the ratchet skipped under load constantly and needed to be replaced. I felt the design is kinda sensitive to dirt but also falls apart easily.
And no mention of the true MVP workhorse, the 370?! 😢 The vid (or ad) is imho aimed at newbies (most cyclist know the difference already), I would assume you would explain the diffetence to an entry level 370 as well...
Is it no longer possible to do a site visit without people assuming it's an ad? DT did not give us any money for this video. Anyway, I geek out on this stuff, and I know others feel the same and no, most folks (not just newbies) I've talked to don't know their hub system very well, hence the video. We covered the three styles of ratchet systems DT makes. The 370, while not cross-compatible with the 350 or 240 ratchet systems, essentially works the same way.
@@BIKEPACKINGcomI've no problem if it's an ad or not, I liked the vid too, so no problem with that, just constructive criticism that the hub which is on most entry level wheelsets (and there is a gazillion of them) was not even mentioned. And it is sad that most cyclists don't know (or care) about hubs, BBs etc, but we digress.
This video may be interesting for bike mechanics but is utterly unintelligible to the average bike rider. It’s a shame as I’m buying a hand-made bike and interested in learning more about components but this was useless as I have no idea why this thing has a ratchet in it in the first place and how it works.
You probably want the 350 hub then. It's the kind of thing you start to pick up on as you get deeper into bike packing and off-road or long distance touring. It's all about self maintenance and weight vs. strength vs. flex vs. rigidness. Some people like to be light weight, people like me care most about durability because I don't want any surprises on the road. That means my bike weighs more.
The simplicity of DTSwiss Ratchet hubs is brilliant. …however since the patent ran out, others are copying. Does anyone have experience of compatibility between DTSwiss hubs and other brands, such as the new Hunt H-ratchet version? Swapping cassettes between DTSwiss hubs is so easy. …Can I now swap a cassette from Hunt hubs to DTSwiss hubs too? Are the dimensions of the ratchets the same? Having said that, the new DTSwiss DEG ratchet hubs look brilliant for gravel…yet they’re not yet an option in their gravel wheelsets?
MTB seems more obsessed with engagement than gravel, so it makes sense to start there? could be useful in some gravel situations, especially the loose uphill stuff
![[FINALE] 💸ที่แท้พ่อเป็นผู้ถือหุ้นบริษัทพันล้าน เขากลับใจตอนนี้ก็สายไปแล้ว🙇🏻♂️#ละครคุณธรรม #short](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yFwgjTFISUI/mqdefault.jpg)
I’ve only got classic star ratchet hubs, 7 sets and counting (240 & 350). They all work perfectly all the time. One thing that was not mentioned was the ease of conversion for different frame axle types, esp with the 350. From 12x100 -> 12x197 and everything in between.
“Lighter weight compared to the other options we just spoke trough”
Nice one!
Thanks for the closeup of the spoke options for us to see for ourselves.
Right? I was screaming at that guy the whole time he held it in his hands 😂
Reliable, maintainable, upgradeable. Love them!
We LOVE our Surly LHT'ers, rim brakes and all! Over 15k miles of pavement touring and a smidge of off road. Bikes for life!
love these educational and digestible videos!
The DT350 now comes with a 36T ratchet as standard 🎉
I was really hoping that this video would go more into the intricacies of the generations of models. It was amazing pre-2022, everything was interchangeable, now there are 2 new systems with more problems than improvements. Please DT at least bring back a legacy 350!
Great video! Doing a Fargo build and going with the DT Swiss EX 1700 Spline. Looks to be bomb proof and can maintain offgrid bikepacking. Pairing with Rene Herse Fleecer Ridge 2.2" tubeless.
Better than I9, especially in terms of durability on single speeds. DT Swiss is the standard by which all other free hubs should be measured. I thought I9 Hydras would be the ultimate for the situations Neil detailed at 6:30, but the freehub just wouldn’t hold up after two years singlespeding with hard ratcheting through technical terrain of the Granite Dells here in Prescott, AZ.
Thanks. This is helping me to make an informed decision for my next wheel builds.
The classic design with the two floating ratchets came out of patent, which is why everyone is making that style hub now. Basically everyone in China copied the design. As a result, DT Swiss introduced the EXP to get a new patent. I don't think the EXP is a real improvement, in fact because it requires a tool it's arguably a tiny bit worse. I will say that I have two sets of 240 EXPs and they work fine after many thousands of miles. These hubs are all very, very reliable. The new DEG is likely very, very loud.
@5:18 does "by hand" mean none of the cartridge bearings in the hub shell or freehub need a puller or press tool to remove or install? Also, I'm considering getting a 2024 Canyon Spectral CF 7 that comes with DT Swill M1900 wheels that have the 6 bolt method of rotor mount. The DT Swiss site only shows a Centerlock mount M1900 wheelset though. So can you tell me exactly what model of hub that bike has, and will I need a puller or press tool for the bearings? Lastly, do you make a hub that is both straight pull spoke design, AND tool free bearing maintenance?
Thank you
Dt swiss has so much options. But i have to say it works so good.
350s are the key (some odd proprietary cups for the 240s). Get these hubs, enjoy the super reliability, middle of the road pricing, almost entirely future proof and spares super easily had (even 2nd hand, no other hub would you find so many freehubs or even ratchets available on the used market).
DT Swiss have obviously made the EXP (to optimise for weight) and DEG (to optimise for engagement) to differentiate themselves for the future (since their Ratchet patent expired in 2020 more or less, other brands are now copying/making variations of the venerable dual-ratchet system). Both are nice little optimisations but in the grand scheme of things, the majority of people would benefit more from the old designs interchangeability > the additional cost and benefits from EXP or DEG.
Love my Star Ratchet freehubs. Both my Megatrail and my fatbike wheels have DT Swiss. Love Chris King too....just can't afford em. Converting crappy freehubs to star ratchet is so easy, cost effective, and worthwhile!
DT Swiss is no longer the only game in town for this style of hub. OneUp does a good version of it, and if you're really looking for value for dollar then Koozer is excellent too. I build DT Swiss-based wheelsets for people willing to pay the premium for name recognition, but on my own bikes, I run Light Bicycle carbon rims on Koozer 450 standard pawl (120 poe) for street trials, and Koozer 350 star ratchet for trail and bikepacking. Both are as reliable as DT Swiss.
I'm running the One-up hubs, 44t engagement is a good spot for single-speeding and you get a choice of colors to boot. The star-ratchet patent running out was a big boon for the industry.
I have a DT Swiss dual ratchet model with 54 teeth engagement. After about 10000 miles of use, on a lot of hills, the ratchet teeth began to skip with a pretty horrible sound. I have sense replaced the ratchet - all good. I have kept the hub clean and greased. Inspection of the ratchets closely showed they had worn and were a bit rounded. They are easy to service, but if the fail one has a very noisy ride to get home as the teeth skip over each other.
Question - would going to a lower number of ratchet teeth make the hub more reliable ?
Yes, lower number of teeth makes the corner of the tooth less sharp. So as a result it is harder to chip off. It also makes the freewheel take slightly less energy, and is a bit quieter.
Great! Have you ever tried to open the locknut …
Still waiting for the EXP OS 54T version for ebikes. Only 32T so far and I don't think that's enough.
So for now I just ride a 54T ratchet and hope it holds up to the Newtons.
Neat!
Where do the spline hubs fall into this?
Any news on their hub for carbon spokes?
Is the DEG SRAM only?
Nope
What is the lowest number of teeth on EXP?
I don’t want any loud noises from my bike. No creaks and no loud freewheels.
The DT hubs I’ve heard are very loud when coasting. Quiet rear hubs (freewheels) are a must.
Sure, its not quiet, but its not really as loud as some.
I'm glad they changed the design to a no tools design, especially as I have the old model & can't get the ring out, so can't replace the knackered bearing 🙁
i got a new Santa Cruz gravel bike and it came with DT370 hubs .I was wondering its completely silent :) . WHICH is wonderful quite . HAVE you tried these ?
Don't they have like max 28 spokes? I'd rather have 32 spokes to be extra safe and the weight doesn't really matter...
I don't like noisy hubs. Drives me mad after a while. I'm using nukeproof pro hub, and it's not stupidly loud.
My friend has a noisy hub, and people still get in his way and ignore the noise. Lol.
I just want my free hub to be quiet.
DT Swiss can be pretty quiet when more grease is applied.
Love my 54 tooth star ratchet. BBZZZZZZ!
Hope Pro 5, sounds like a good watch, 3.3 degrees too. cheers
Everyone deserves one Onyx wheelset in their life.
I love my Onyx but I do kind of want to try the DEG
Those guys barely have a clue of what they are talking about. The champion spoke for example is about the worst spoke to choose for a bike packing built. Expect maybe in the case that you are super heavy and on a tight budget without worrying about longevity. If longevity is on your list you should definitely choose a butted spoke because they tend to reduce the stresses away from the hub and rim interfaces which are most prone to fatigue cracks especially with j-ben spokes. Also as he mentioned... the ride feel improves. Also both of these guys failed to mention the slightly optimized bearing location of the exp and deg hubs. But all in all the quality of DT Swiss products is impeccable but in choosing the right product for you one should use their own brain and not just follow the marketing talk of any questionable pr guys.
A wheel with hidden nipples doesn't make much sense for bike packing (the 1100 dicut)
Spoke advice seems quite strange to me. Competition is the only spoke from DT Swiss which is applicable for bikepacking. Strong and reliable.
My first experience with ratchet design wasn't good. The ratchets have to be immaculately clean or they won't engage correctly and can get damaged leading to failure over time. Not a big deal EXCEPT when I needed to work on my wheel trailside and the entire cassette popped off and the greased ratchets fell in the dirt. Fast forward a week and the ratchet skipped under load constantly and needed to be replaced. I felt the design is kinda sensitive to dirt but also falls apart easily.
And no mention of the true MVP workhorse, the 370?! 😢
The vid (or ad) is imho aimed at newbies (most cyclist know the difference already), I would assume you would explain the diffetence to an entry level 370 as well...
Is it no longer possible to do a site visit without people assuming it's an ad? DT did not give us any money for this video. Anyway, I geek out on this stuff, and I know others feel the same and no, most folks (not just newbies) I've talked to don't know their hub system very well, hence the video. We covered the three styles of ratchet systems DT makes. The 370, while not cross-compatible with the 350 or 240 ratchet systems, essentially works the same way.
@@BIKEPACKINGcomI've no problem if it's an ad or not, I liked the vid too, so no problem with that, just constructive criticism that the hub which is on most entry level wheelsets (and there is a gazillion of them) was not even mentioned.
And it is sad that most cyclists don't know (or care) about hubs, BBs etc, but we digress.
This video may be interesting for bike mechanics but is utterly unintelligible to the average bike rider. It’s a shame as I’m buying a hand-made bike and interested in learning more about components but this was useless as I have no idea why this thing has a ratchet in it in the first place and how it works.
You probably want the 350 hub then. It's the kind of thing you start to pick up on as you get deeper into bike packing and off-road or long distance touring. It's all about self maintenance and weight vs. strength vs. flex vs. rigidness. Some people like to be light weight, people like me care most about durability because I don't want any surprises on the road. That means my bike weighs more.
The simplicity of DTSwiss Ratchet hubs is brilliant. …however since the patent ran out, others are copying.
Does anyone have experience of compatibility between DTSwiss hubs and other brands, such as the new Hunt H-ratchet version? Swapping cassettes between DTSwiss hubs is so easy. …Can I now swap a cassette from Hunt hubs to DTSwiss hubs too? Are the dimensions of the ratchets the same?
Having said that, the new DTSwiss DEG ratchet hubs look brilliant for gravel…yet they’re not yet an option in their gravel wheelsets?
MTB seems more obsessed with engagement than gravel, so it makes sense to start there? could be useful in some gravel situations, especially the loose uphill stuff