What’s your favorite Indiana Jones movie (and why is it 1999’s “The Mummy”?) Thanks so much to WorldAnvil for sponsoring this video! Visit www.worldanvil.com/supergeekmike and use the promo code SUPERGEEK to get 40% off any annual membership! www.worldanvil.com/supergeekmike
Sorry Mike, I'm a traditionalist and Raiders is my favorite. But I will admit to very quickly nicknaming the Mummy "Indiana Jones and the City of the Dead." Though I still like Harrison Ford more than Brendan Frasier.
Favorite Indiana Jones movie has to be Raiders. But I’d be remiss is I didn’t bring up The Adventure of Tintin. That’s got to be my favorite adventure movie of all time!
Late watcher for this video and I love you so much for this reference 💜 I'd argue that the best Indiana Jones movie is still either Raiders or Last Crusade, but the best pulp horror/adventure movie is The Mummy 1999, hands down. It's got it all! Great ensemble cast, self-aware dialogue that isn't annoying, getting to fall in love with Rachel Weisz through Brendan Fraser's eyes and vice versa, Oded Fehr being so handsome the director changed his mind on covering his character's face with tattoos, John Hannah's fantastic acting and hilarious mix of Scottish and English upper class accent, great horror, great adventure, great everything! :D
My friend and fellow GM has a great saying for players who recognize GM plagiarism: "If you see what I did, no you didn't." Basically, during the game, if you spot the source, keep it to yourself, especially at the table.
For sure. Especially when you compare it to actual English food. Boiled cabbage stuffed in a boiled sheep stomach would fit in perfectly with the rest of the dishes in the gross food scene.
@@CitanulsPumpkin gross as it sounds on paper I had haggis multiple times when I visited Scotland and it was actually delicious! In a similar vein, the beetles in the ToD scene really don't match with the other dishes, as insects properly prepared aren't actually gross at all!
Solid points (both about the movie and the ways you can use scenes as inspiration), as usual. The fight on the bridge/ladder/chasm is yet another excellent lesson in how to incorporate the environment as part of an encounter.
There's a great way to do weird food dinners in Pathfinder's Adventure Path Hell's Rebels (Book 3 specifically, no story spoilers). The entire dinner is a skill challenge to eat the food correctly and not embarrass yourself to impress the host and learn more info. It's a really great roleplay encounter with a lot of wacky food eaten in the devil-worshipping high-society circles.
The whole concept of just taking a movie like this, throwing some DnD paint on it (and getting rid of the awful bits) is a really great idea, and your discussion of how to do this is clear and excellent. Thanks for putting up with watching this again so that we don't have to! FWIW, I agree this is the worst Indy movie. Crystal Skull is bad in a lot of ways, but it's mostly just stuff that is silly or nonsense or memeworthy and at least could be fun to rewatch just to make fun of it. This one is actively cringe-worthy.
Yeah, if Mike wants to risk dealing with the copyright bots some more, I'd love to see this sort of breakdown of other films - good and bad. Also for films that aesthetically are vastly different from D&D (either for D&D/D&D adjacent games or for systems that would more naturally work with them)
The best thing that can be said about the Temple of Doom is that Indy returns the artifact to its proper owners at the end. The Ark of the Covenant gets stuck in a warehouse somewhere, and the Holy Grail ends up destroyed, but the Sankara Stone gets returned to the village in the end. EDIT: Not to excuse the other stuff, of course, just an observation.
This is an excellent point! I think there’s a broader argument that the way this movie deviates from the structure of the first film goes a long way toward establishing Indy as a very versatile hero who you can tell a lot of different stories about.
33:27 I actually did basically this in my last session. We were fighting enemies that went down pretty easy but always regenerated, and then one of our casters figured out that hitting them with fire while they're down kills them permanently. I don't have any fire attacks, so I just said "I'm gonna pick up a stick and light it on fire with my tinderbox and then hit the guy with it" and then I ran around waving a flaming branch for the rest of the combat
You can have racism in your d&d game, handle it properly, talk to the players. It's bad yes ofc but more motivation for the different forces in your world to change it, especially so if your world has different dominating, sentient species. You don't need to take out every bad quality to mae something great
While this is true, and can add a lot of authenticity to your game (so long as your players sign off on it), the casual, pointless racism portrayed in Temple of Doom is not something to be used as a model.
@@kendrajade6688 yes, first few minutes with de-aged Indy were pretty sweet but after that’s it’s just awful. I’ll let you judge for yourself tho. Just my personal opinion,
95% of your criticisms of this film are valid. But it's Chatar LAL not Chatar Lai. Ends with an "L" I'm fairly sure he even pronounces the L in his introduction. (also the novelization the dinner sequence was explained as the cultists trying to prompt the Brits and Dr. Jones into leaving sooner, but I can see that as artistic licence on behalf of the author. Yes, I read the novelization. I did so before I saw the movie so I wasn't grossed out.)
@@armorclasshero2103 Glad I'm not the only one. It felt like an Indy movie to me, and the inclusion of aliens didn't break the immersion to me because a: he's already had the literal power of God come down on the nazis before, why not aliens now? and b: it felt like a progression of time; the 50s onward were a good time for budding science fiction and space operas. And if people are REALLY that mad about the fridge thing...I'd like to introduce you to ANY Indiana Jones stunts :P
@@armorclasshero2103nah dog, the cgi action gave it the star wars prequel effect, except minus the superpower payoffs, the pacing is rushed, and a lot of the lore included just feels like fan service. Also you are right in the sense that film is still incredibly derivative and pulls the entirety of its lesson from previous indi films
🤣 "Is Galaxy Quest secretly a Temple of Doom remake? No." 😂🤣 Seriously good video. I would watch a lot more of these, especially an Indy-style trap video. Bravo.
Definitely my favorite Indy movie! As a kid Raiders and Crusade were hard to get into because of the historic setting and focus on exposition. WWII and gangster movies were my least liked films as a child… Temple of Doom actually feels mostly timeless, takes off like a rocket, is bright & colorful, action packed, and everything else a kid my age needed to hook me.
Why do people hate Crystal Skull so much? I think an Indy movie set in the 50s featuring aliens and Russians makes perfect sense, because those were the bad guys in the 50s! Is it just about the fridge? The escape from the plane in the inflatable raft is also ridiculous. Marion Ravenwood is 1000x better than Willie, and Cait Blanchet was an awesome bad guy. I honestly do not understand the hate, and I'm a lifelong Indy fan in my 50s.
I agree that the dinner scene is a complete mess, but according Roshan Seth (Chattar Lal in the movie): "Steven [Spielberg] intended [the dinner scene] as a joke, the joke being that Indians were so f***ing smart that they knew all Westerners think that Indians eat cockroaches, so they served them what they expected. The joke was too subtle for that film." I think this explain why Indy ignore the food and in the following scene brings edible food to Willie.
For a bit of context-I am a big Indiana Jones fan, and so I have read and seen a lot of behind the scenes content. While the movie absolutely inspired racism in some viewers who struggled to separate fantasy from reality, I would argue that the intent behind the film makes it itself not racist. Most of the issue found are within Pankot, which is meant to serve as a funhouse mirror of Indian culture. The thugees know how the colonials view Indians, and they play into it to disturb the outsiders into leaving without looking “conspicuous”. In addition, the thugee portrayal is more a fantasy cult that takes elements from real cultures. I could argue that Dendar the Night Serpent and Yuan Ti are just as racist as the thugee in terms of portrayal, but we are able to separate Yuan-Ti worship from Aztec worship. There are subtle hints to show these aren’t Hindus, such as Mola Ram wearing a cattle skull. In a deleted scene, Indiana even comments on the dinner scene, commenting that he doesn’t know who they are, but that they are not Hindus because they were eating meat. I agree that the film did a lot of harm to western views of India and that it played too strongly ito the “white savior” trope, but the film is not, in itself, as racist as you make it out to be. Edit: totally forgot about the brownface. That’s gross.
I wonder how much shorter this video would be if you just said "this film is pretty racist" once, up front, instead of breaking your flow to complain about it every other sentence. You're not wrong- it IS pretty racist. Maybe focus on the point a bit more though?
I see that someone else said it, but the food would make sense if they were trying to gross out the commander into leaving early due to the threat he poses. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch for them to believe that the commander probably thinks himself superior to them and wouldn't dare insult his honor by eating anything he doesn't consider food, so they bit the bullet in the hopes they could get him to leave early and not stumble onto what they have been doing recently. Indiana and co. just happened to be caught in the middle of this. This could explain how Indy got the normal food, he wasn't the intended target.
Fun fact: Mola Ram's actor is Amrish Puri, which was an extremely prolific actor in India (in different indian industry but mainly bollywood) mostly because he played emblematic villains! So if you want to watch a fun movie with an iconic villain that is better with indian culture, you may wanna check his filmography
I came to the Indiana Jones series in my late twenties and loved the first movie and then felt like I was given whiplash by the tonal change of the second. I appreciate the CW list in the description but lol'd at the final one being "Kate Capshaw screaming"
Some other movies that can be great influences to D&D campaigns: Star Wars: A New Hope Guardians of the Galaxy Predator The Thing Conan the Barbarian and Conan the Destroyer Army of Darkness The Haunting (the original) The Goonies Gremlins
I've seen this Indiana Jones more times than the rest, not because it was good, but because it was cheap. When my sibling and I were kids, we had to stay home during the summer while our parents were at work. For this reason, we watched a lot of movies on HBO, but because HBO's daytime programming at the time was the cheapest stuff they could get, the movies were ones that didn't do well in theatres. Some weren't very good (like Temple of Doom), but others had a story that was more sympathetic, but ultimately tragic (like Mask - 'Rocky' Dennis, not Jim Carrey). I'm not too impressed with the 'christians = good guys' messaging of 1 & 3. Making a 'nice' caricature of a religion with a long history of systemic opression and abuse is just as wrong as the negative caricature of hinduism in ToD. Sure, it was 'the church' that did all the evil crap from crusades, to inquisitions, to slavery, to child sexual abuse, etc., but because 'the church' did all these things to prop up a lie for the perpetuation their power, anyone who continues to support it becomes an accomplice.
I can honestly say I've never seen this movie and now I'm very glad 😳 But can also confirm that dropping characters into a locale where everyone treats them like they're the answer to their every prayer is VERY disconcerting to the players (ESPECIALLY at relatively low level) and extremely fun for the DM.
I only recently learned that movie was a prequel to Raiders and Crusade (I was watching it as a kid a lot and was used to the Lego games and just never paid attention to the date.) It’s also probably the easiest to understand example of Orientalism in 80s film.
I unironically love this film, because it's a great adventure film. Is it the best of this film series? No. Does it have problems? Yes. Is it still a fun ride with tons of incredible action and dialogue in it? Absolutely! (You could even argue that the action has to be that much better to make up for the bad choices, but that's not the conversation we're having.)
@@VARMOT123 If you knew me you would know that’s not the case. You are a self assuming individual with that statement without having any knowledge of me. You think I’m a racist because I liked a movie as a kid in 1984? It’s quite hurtful to be honest. You need to take a look at yourself and how you think before judging others. What you think to be true isn’t necessarily always true. I myself have been guilty of such a thing and I’ve had to rethink my own thoughts at times and realize I was wrong. People are always in a rush to make a judgement and that’s the problem in todays world. I was a 14 year old kid when this came out. Racism was the farthest thing from my mind, nor did it make me think this portrayal of Indian culture was truthful. It was a Indian Hindu cult doing these things. Not Indian people. I don’t have an issue if you think the movie has racial overtones. I understand why people see it from that point of view, and I can understand Hindus having issue with it, but don’t be hasty to accuse someone you never met, or anyone else for that matter unless you know them.
This is the first of your videos I've seen, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Your analysis and analogies to a D&D module are well done. I've designed many adventures in my homebrew as inspired by films and television episodes. This is a lot of fun to do, and I'm glad others can see the benefit. Especially in finding a way to make something not-so-great worthwhile. (My newest adventure is based on the Star Wars Resistance 2nd season episode that blatantly riffs on the Indiana Jones themes.)
I want to run this as an adventure now! My little hamster wheel is already spinning with ideas of how to drop this into my world! As for mind control. I was hesitant to use it at first but then my players really leaned into it. It turns out we all have fun role playing it! But it’s definitely something that should be discussed early on and not just thrown at them. And I always let the players continue to control their characters while under mind control. This way they still participate in the game and agency isn’t completely taken away.
I feel like this movie is structurally good and well paced and entertaining but all the story content and cultural depictions are fairly horrifying. I think that's why it would work so well as TTRPG adaptation. Also, is Willie a bard?
I feel like if we want an example of 'getting someone out of a trap by a simple mechanic but other things get in the way," the first Avengers movie is a good example. I've been thinking of doing my own analysis of the attack on the airship being a good reference point for a combat encounter or just a challenge, and one of the reasons why is Tony and Steve repairing the engine. All Steve had to do to help Tony get the rotors moving was hold lever to keep Tony from getting sliced to pieces, but he got attacked.
Given how much she seems to scream in it, I can't help but wonder if there's anything special about Capshaw's screaming abilities that went into the casting decision. (This thought might be brought to you by my recently watching someone's reviews of S23 of classic era Doctor Who, and as such Bonnie Langford getting cast as Mel for, in part, her ability to scream iirc in key, which... She's actually gone on to have an incredibly accomplished career? Especially when it comes to her stage career. Kind of frustrating that that's one of the reasons she was cast and the material that was written for her is _gestures broadly at how much Mel's concept was wasted_ )
According to the behind the scenes content, she didn’t know how to scream for camera and had to be taught. They cast her because she did a great job with the entitlement but also with being able to give Indiana Jones sass - but a lot of the latter seems to have been watered-down or misdirected during filming.
Oh for sure, I imagine that the reason Last Crusade is my favorite has quite a lot to do with the fact that it’s the first Indiana Jones movie I saw, and I watched it with my own father ☺️
Uh... the final comments about Indy not believing in magic during Temple... or going to Willie from Marion. ToD is a prequel to RotLA, not a sequel, the release order for them is not chronological
Right, that’s why I said it makes no sense. Because it’s very strange that he believes in magic and sees it in this film, and yet throughout Raiders he vehemently denies all superstition until the very end. Also, I didn’t mean Indy’s love life, I meant the experience for the creators and the audience. Although, yes, if ToD were a sequel it would be a downgrade for him as well.
From a story perspective crystal skull is the worst film. Temple of Doom's subject matter was a problem even back when it was made. Hell, it along with germlins created the PG-13 rating. But everyone has a different opinion which is totally valid. I definitely enjoy Temple of Doom from a story perspective more than Crystal Skull.
I mean, yeah. But in 1984, we didn’t know ANYTHING about most of the sociopolitical issues of today. We thought we’d have flying cars in thirty years, for Christ’s sake!
@@bensdreamatorium8315Today's sociopolitical issues definitely existed in the 80s. Colonialism, racism, and sexism were bad 40 years ago and still are today. They weren't mainstream, but it doesn't mean it was okay. I'm not saying Indiana Jones or the people involved in Temple of Doom are terrible people that need to be canceled, but like Mike points out with the Maharaja's quote: it's okay to accept things were not okay and move on.
I certainly think the story has a lot of potential (I mean, that’s the premise of the video lol), a lot of it just comes down to poor execution, and some ill-considered ideas about how the Indian culture is depicted and some of the messaging.
I agree that Temple of Doom is the worst of the 4, but I actually don't think it's *that* bad. I think there's a lot of concessions you have to make for it when showing it to new people for the first time but there's genuinely a lot to like in it.
32:30 I don't think the children are the victims of the mind control. It's some of the guards. Some of them are true believers, but others were forced to drink the blood. In a deleted scene, Shorty sees how a guard gets burned by a torch, and after that, he was normal again. Then his guard friends dragged him back to drink the blood again. This is how Shorty gets the idea of burning Indy and the Maharadscha. So yeah, the children are not mind controlled, just the Palace guards, which are separated from the true Thugges. Wouldn't make any sense to mind control the kids and to whip cracking them when they do it voluntarily
6:05. Is that sarcasm about a fuel dump? Do you not know that planes are designed to be able to do that? Because planes definitely can do that mid-flight, because it’s dangerous to do an emergency crash landing with fuel due to….ignition and explosions. so they can manually dump fuel and crash land dry so that anyone who survives the impact doesn’t then burn to death in a subsequent fuel fire. Perhaps it’s anachronistic that THIS plane in 1936 can do that, but planes in general absolutely can do that. Short Round alone is justification for this movie
Planes can dump fuel. It's actually a standard practice for aircraft in an emergency to do so so that if they have to do a crash landing, the fuel is not an explosive or fire hazard, greatly increasing the survivability of those on board.
You complain too much this is a great movie with great acting and great story telling. whity. (Hence your complaint about white people) My only complaints with this movie is cart scene how does an oversized bucket of water gushing down the tunnels and mor dum getting on other side of bridge that's it.
High level Inquisitive Rogue who might also have levels in Fighter, a low level Bard/Rogue multiclass without subclass in either, and another low level Rogue. Not the best party dynamic, but one that happens alot in movies like this, like two Rogues and a Bard in Road to El Dorado.
Red Letter Media did a re:View of this movie and described it best as a B-movie with a blockbuster budget, and I find this explains much about why Temple of Doom works so well for a D&D adventure. Some of the more mid-tier media - pulpy, borad strokes characters in actio -packed but not necesarily well thought out plots. Obviously we adjust these plots to make for something less racist, but there is a lot to be gleaned from mid-tier stories with broad characters and bolt action beats
The food part was definitely the worst part of the movie for me. I don't mind the racism so much, but that food seems like they were going for a shock factor rather than any sort of cultural callout. There's plenty of bad Indian food out there (not in the restaurants, I'm talking about home cooking), but it wouldn't hit as hard if they showed dry roti and bhindhi bhaji. Do you ever use racist tropes in your D&D games (particularly to help establish a villain)?
This has slowly become my favorite Indy movie. It is just so different from the other films and the films Indy inspired. Also if you’re looking for more dnd movies, Conan the Destroyer is LITERALLY a dnd campaign. If you run that movie beat for beat every one would think it was a published adventure
I as a Westerner kinda don't understand why Kali is framed as the devil in moives about India. From what I understand, which isn't a lot because religion is complicated, she's seen as a force for good in their own beliefs if uncontrollable. Might be totaly wrong on that but I'm certain human sacrifice was never part of it.
I see your point regarding objectionable content. But I rank movies first and foremost according how well they work as stories. And from that perspective Temple of Doom works great, while Crystal Skull is a complete train wreck.
Re: differing views on mind control. The first campaign I played in, one of the players got mind-controlled in battle, and the GM had the player still roll attack and damage rolls (so the GM didn't have to do the math) but also really got the players into the helplessness of the scenario. We didn't all like it, but it was an interesting psychological effect.
I’m SORRY? Did you just decide to forget about Kingdom of the Crystal Skull? Like it’s your opinion an everything but… temple of doom isn’t even that bad
@@SupergeekMike idk I haven’t seen it in a while, so maybe I’m missing that part. Also note, I have not watched the video yet, so if you commented on it in there, I will see that later. I made this post while it was premiering. Anyway, I love you videos! Maybe I’ll go watch temple of doom again.
@@SupergeekMikeUnfortunately, I’m aware that there are a couple million people on this platform who would be more than happy to dispute/condemn you on that matter.
@@bensdreamatorium8315 They're welcome to their opinions. All I can do is make my arguments as clearly as I can, and then I can sleep well at night knowing I've said what I wanted to say.
It’s too bad you see it as racist. Unfortunately, they left out a scene where Indy has a private conversation with the British captain and states a devoted Hindu would never eat meat and it makes you wonder what these people are. They clearly realize something isn’t right.
Unfortunately, without that context making it to the final film, that's ultimately not the message being presented. Additionally, that's just one scene - that doesn't change the fact that they put a white guy in brownface, or even just the low-grade racism we've gotten used to where Chattar Lal is presented as "civilized" because he's more familiar with Western culture, and is able to use this position to discredit the superstitions of the "natives." This form of racism and classism is so strong, it's literally still part of Indian culture, but it's still a form of racism. Also, even if it weren't racist, that wouldn't make me like it - that scene is just stomach-churningly gross, as are so many scenes in this film.
@@SupergeekMikeYou make a fair point, and I completely understand where you are coming from. I just remember being 14 years old watching this in the theater and not even remotely thinking this is how Indian people live their lives. It was a cult, and a cult does not represent an entire culture. It’s quite the opposite. However, there are people who will watch a fictitious movie and believe everything about another culture as real which is unfortunate. I don’t think that’s what they were trying to accomplish here, but maybe I’m being naive, and want to think better of people. As far as being westernized. The real Sadam Hussein always preferred suits over the traditional Muslim clothing. So I’m not sure I understand you point on that. Maybe I missed something you said. Maybe it’s the age gap between us. The world has changed a great deal in my lifetime. Some of it for the better, and some of it for the worse. I appreciate you taking the time to read my comment. I think it’s great we can comment without hurling insults at each other which happens to often here on you tube. This is what great debate is all about. On another note, I was a huge D&D fan and player for years and you are right on the money. I never thought about it, but Temple of Doom is a great concept for a campaign. Your efforts are noticed and you did a great job.
@@SupergeekMike actually something just occurred to me. I would also like to ask if you see the Germans being portrayed in the Indy films the same way. Clearly all Germans did not agree with Hitler and his Nazis regime but Germans are always being portrayed as evil in these films. Is that okay? I’m not sure what I think. I would like to know what you think about that. You can see racism everywhere if you want to see it. I know they aren’t eating bugs and monkey brains, but they are being portrayed in the same evil manner. The Thuggee did terrible things, and we all know what the Naxis did.
Jessica, your previous comment was fine, you accepted that we might not agree and that different people take different conclusions away from art. But this second comment has a lot more going on, and I’m gonna take a second to unpack them. If we were to determine that the depiction of Germans in this film is unfair or prejudiced - and we’ll get to that question in a minute - that wouldn’t be seeing racism in the film. There is no commonly-accepted definition of “race” that separates German people from Caucasians, and a film that exclusively features Caucasian lead actors and was predominantly made by Caucasians cannot be racist toward white people. So, seeing any similarity between the representation of Nazis and the Thuggee would not fall under the category of “seeing racism everywhere.” Next, let’s look at the Thuggee themselves and establish a baseline. Because the Thuggee in the film share very little in common with the Thuggee of history. (Assuming they were real, there’s debate over that subject but we have to assume they’re real at least for this conversation, or we’ll be here all day.) The real thuggee were more like a mafia, although some were religious and worshipped Kali. They strangled people, something we see in the film, but they did not murder women, something we see them plan to do in the film. Also, you know, they didn’t rip peoples’ hearts out and drop them into lava, nor force people to drink blood to brainwash them. And obviously they didn’t possess mystical powers. Additionally, voodoo is a practice that has nothing to do with India or the Thuggee, yet it is lumped in with them for the film. So it seems clear that the Thuggee in the film were an invention for the story, with no basis in reality. Now, let’s compare that with the way the Germans are depicted. In the first film, the only Germans we see are Nazi soldiers. At no point do any of them behave ahistorically for how Nazi soldiers would have acted in this situation, except for the fact that they speak English for the benefit of the audience, and Toht has a cool coat hanger. Their mission is also directly tied with one horrible man, Hitler, laying their actions at his feet. And of course, the primary antagonist is not a Nazi, but a French archaeologist who works with them for his own ends. We’ll come back to that in a minute. The third film again gives us two major villains who aren’t German Nazis - Donovan, who is an American aristocrat (and a Nazi) but who also has his own goals that he’s using the Nazis to accomplish. The other is Ilsa, a German archaeologist. Both of them are surprise villains - meaning, the film happily shows both of them as allies until later in the film. And this means the movie is being very clear that people from Germany aren’t assumed by Indy to be evil/Nazis. But yes, the film gives Nazi soldiers the same treatment as in the first film, but here we DO see German society. We see wealthy Germans on a blimp, and the film offers no value judgement on them one way or another. And besides that, we see a book burning - something we know happened during the Nazi occupation - and we also get something very useful for our purposes. We see that Ilsa is visibly upset at the book burning. So, the film explicitly shows us that not everyone in Germany is in harmony with the Nazi movement. However, the film also doesn’t let Ilsa off the hook. When she says she doesn’t believe in the book burnings, Indiana says, “You stood up to be counted with the enemy of everything that the Grail stands for. Who gives a damn what you think?” When we combine that with the other lead villains in 1 and 3, the French archaeologist and the American aristocrat, we see that the commentary around the Nazi is actually a statement condemning those who would work with Nazis despite the group’s heinous beliefs and actions, while trying to distance themselves from them. It’s condemning those who will pay lip service to denouncing fascists, yet will still do nothing to stop them. Ilsa and Belloc and Donovan are not Nazis, but they are the sort of people that Martin Niemöller denounced and warned about in his “First they came…” poem. And that’s to say nothing of the fact that Spielberg is a Jewish director, and he turned the Nazis into henchmen and bad guys who could be punched into submission, which I would imagine is immensely cathartic. Compare that to a film with no meaningful research into Indian culture painting them with a pretty broad, destructive brush. So, no, I don’t believe the Nazis are depicted the same way as the Thuggee, there are a few pretty key differences.
@@SupergeekMike well thought out my friend, and thank you for the insight. I appreciate you taking the time for a well thought out answer for an insignificant stranger who truly wanted to know why you think the way you do about a certain film.👍……………it was a bad ass coat hanger!
It’s something I did with Van Helsing, but definitely something I’ll do versions of in the future: th-cam.com/play/PLF5zBOWphfZD3MtGCnNi9bJ_zjtMnYUHG.html
@@SupergeekMike I loved the van helsing video as well! But something about the formatting for this one really resonated, it felt very digestible dissecting the story beat by beat and showing how to extract the good and leave behind the bigotry or poorly handled parts. Can’t wait to see what you make next! 🤗
Literally the first line in the description: "If you’re gonna comment that “Crystal Skull” is a worse movie, remember: wall-to-wall racism is worse than cringe writing or bad CGI." 50% of the current comments: "BuT cHrYsTaL sKuLl !!11!" You guys need to chill. That's why clickbait and commercials work on you. ps: EFF YOU MIKE FOR LETTING ME WAIT!
This is interesting, because I've never heard anybody claim Temple of Doom isn't the BEST Indiana Jones movie. Raiders isn't a story at all, just a sequence of events and action set pieces. The Last Crusade is a fun romp about a man re-connecting with his estranged father after years through their shared hobby, but that's more a tangentially related story about an established character, not a great example of what the series is actually about.
@@Heritage367 My dad was born in 1970. Exactly the timeframe to get into those movies. Temple of Doom is his favorite, though he likes all of the first 3. Myself, The Last Crusade is my favorite, though Temple of Doom is objectively the better film.
I agree with all the other content warnings you provide, but "black magic"? I would assume that's only a problem for some very enfranchised who follow a major religion in the West?
It turns out there isn’t one - I thought his name was “Lai” (rhymes with “lie” because he’s lying), turns out it’s “Lal” and I just misread the subtitles 🤦♂️
Lizard people would definitely eat some interesting stuff with insects and bugs and maybe even some small rodents or fish depending on what kind of lizards you were basing your character on. 19:06
About the mind control, for our group (we've been playing for more than thirty years) it's never been an issue. Just tell the player what the character feels and tell them to act according to that.
I enjoyed the movie back then and still enjoy it now. It's #3 for me. Right behind Last Crusade and ahead of Crystal Skull. I enjoyed the dnd breakdown and agree that there are many things from this movie that would fit well in a game.
Ohh you are missing out, Raiders of the Lost Ark and Last Crusade are legitimately great. (And there are clearly folks who still enjoy Temple of Doom more than Crystal Skull, though I suspect nostalgia plays a large part for some of them, but probably not all of them)
I don't know about the rest of the film, but I have to say the opening sequence of this film is one of my all time favorite scenes in Cinema history. Yeah I know the characters are pretty racist, and Kate Capshaw dress is actually the worst, but man it's just such a good scene.
Oh, really? I must have forgotten the scene in Crystal Skull where a white guy in brown face whips a beloved child sidekick. Seems like that would stick in the mind.
While i understand the clear racism and sexism of the film is horrendous and is not ok, it is also a product of the time it was made. Whilst it isnt the height of cinema it is imo by far a better movie than crystal skull. That said its all a matter of opinion.
@@SupergeekMike being born in 1984 I can unfortunately say its nearly 40 years ago now, which is just shy of half a century. Again I'm not condoning the actions and saying they are ok, but it was the way things were unfortunately in the 80s. Plenty of other films of the decade (not to mention the 90s) are equally guilty of these crimes. My issue is you can't judge the quality of a film itself and cast it as "Terrible" movie due to some dated stereotypes .
I actually do think they were in the Deities and Demigods book from the 80s? That book included a BUNCH of real-world mythology in the book, it made some CHOICES lol
This video is really excellent, if you wanted to do more of this kind of thing where you look at a movie through the lens of how to adapt them to tabletop campaigns, I'd love that too :D
I'm sorry, I LOVE Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (it'd be better without Shia LaBeouf though), it's so deliciously unhinged. I also LOVED this video, so thanks Mike 😄
What’s your favorite Indiana Jones movie (and why is it 1999’s “The Mummy”?)
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Sorry Mike, I'm a traditionalist and Raiders is my favorite. But I will admit to very quickly nicknaming the Mummy "Indiana Jones and the City of the Dead." Though I still like Harrison Ford more than Brendan Frasier.
Because 1999's The Mummy has Rachel Weisz as a delightful character and has great chemistry with Brenden Fraser.
Favorite Indiana Jones movie has to be Raiders. But I’d be remiss is I didn’t bring up The Adventure of Tintin. That’s got to be my favorite adventure movie of all time!
Late watcher for this video and I love you so much for this reference 💜 I'd argue that the best Indiana Jones movie is still either Raiders or Last Crusade, but the best pulp horror/adventure movie is The Mummy 1999, hands down. It's got it all! Great ensemble cast, self-aware dialogue that isn't annoying, getting to fall in love with Rachel Weisz through Brendan Fraser's eyes and vice versa, Oded Fehr being so handsome the director changed his mind on covering his character's face with tattoos, John Hannah's fantastic acting and hilarious mix of Scottish and English upper class accent, great horror, great adventure, great everything! :D
My friend and fellow GM has a great saying for players who recognize GM plagiarism: "If you see what I did, no you didn't." Basically, during the game, if you spot the source, keep it to yourself, especially at the table.
O.K. I'ed never thought about it before but the "gross food" scene is even worse because Indian food is awesome.
For sure. Especially when you compare it to actual English food. Boiled cabbage stuffed in a boiled sheep stomach would fit in perfectly with the rest of the dishes in the gross food scene.
@@CitanulsPumpkin gross as it sounds on paper I had haggis multiple times when I visited Scotland and it was actually delicious! In a similar vein, the beetles in the ToD scene really don't match with the other dishes, as insects properly prepared aren't actually gross at all!
Solid points (both about the movie and the ways you can use scenes as inspiration), as usual.
The fight on the bridge/ladder/chasm is yet another excellent lesson in how to incorporate the environment as part of an encounter.
There's a great way to do weird food dinners in Pathfinder's Adventure Path Hell's Rebels (Book 3 specifically, no story spoilers).
The entire dinner is a skill challenge to eat the food correctly and not embarrass yourself to impress the host and learn more info. It's a really great roleplay encounter with a lot of wacky food eaten in the devil-worshipping high-society circles.
The whole concept of just taking a movie like this, throwing some DnD paint on it (and getting rid of the awful bits) is a really great idea, and your discussion of how to do this is clear and excellent. Thanks for putting up with watching this again so that we don't have to!
FWIW, I agree this is the worst Indy movie. Crystal Skull is bad in a lot of ways, but it's mostly just stuff that is silly or nonsense or memeworthy and at least could be fun to rewatch just to make fun of it. This one is actively cringe-worthy.
Yeah, if Mike wants to risk dealing with the copyright bots some more, I'd love to see this sort of breakdown of other films - good and bad. Also for films that aesthetically are vastly different from D&D (either for D&D/D&D adjacent games or for systems that would more naturally work with them)
The best thing that can be said about the Temple of Doom is that Indy returns the artifact to its proper owners at the end. The Ark of the Covenant gets stuck in a warehouse somewhere, and the Holy Grail ends up destroyed, but the Sankara Stone gets returned to the village in the end.
EDIT: Not to excuse the other stuff, of course, just an observation.
This is an excellent point! I think there’s a broader argument that the way this movie deviates from the structure of the first film goes a long way toward establishing Indy as a very versatile hero who you can tell a lot of different stories about.
33:27 I actually did basically this in my last session. We were fighting enemies that went down pretty easy but always regenerated, and then one of our casters figured out that hitting them with fire while they're down kills them permanently. I don't have any fire attacks, so I just said "I'm gonna pick up a stick and light it on fire with my tinderbox and then hit the guy with it" and then I ran around waving a flaming branch for the rest of the combat
the aragorn approach
baby's first troll slaughter
You can have racism in your d&d game, handle it properly, talk to the players. It's bad yes ofc but more motivation for the different forces in your world to change it, especially so if your world has different dominating, sentient species. You don't need to take out every bad quality to mae something great
While this is true, and can add a lot of authenticity to your game (so long as your players sign off on it), the casual, pointless racism portrayed in Temple of Doom is not something to be used as a model.
Well, I'd say wrong on the worst Indie movie, but definitely right on Willie.
Yep, def only the third worst indie movie. Last two were unwatchable.
@@raymondharnack4160 That's too bad to hear, is this from seeing 5?
@@kendrajade6688 yes, first few minutes with de-aged Indy were pretty sweet but after that’s it’s just awful. I’ll let you judge for yourself tho. Just my personal opinion,
Temple of Doom is the worst of the three Indiana Jones films by far. But it's still a good film.
@Karajorma wrong, but you're entitled to your opinion 😄
95% of your criticisms of this film are valid.
But it's Chatar LAL not Chatar Lai. Ends with an "L" I'm fairly sure he even pronounces the L in his introduction.
(also the novelization the dinner sequence was explained as the cultists trying to prompt the Brits and Dr. Jones into leaving sooner, but I can see that as artistic licence on behalf of the author. Yes, I read the novelization. I did so before I saw the movie so I wasn't grossed out.)
Ahh that’s not the only thing the subtitles got wrong but it’s something I didn’t catch - thank you!!
Did we just collectively forget how bad Crystal Skull was? I mean… what movie? It doesn’t exist
I mean, sure, if you discount the existence of Crystal Skull, then yes, Temple of Doom can’t hold a candle to Raiders and Last Crusade.
Was it? Felt just like the other movies to me.
I enjoyed both, but the new one is absolutely atrocious
@@armorclasshero2103 Glad I'm not the only one. It felt like an Indy movie to me, and the inclusion of aliens didn't break the immersion to me because a: he's already had the literal power of God come down on the nazis before, why not aliens now? and b: it felt like a progression of time; the 50s onward were a good time for budding science fiction and space operas. And if people are REALLY that mad about the fridge thing...I'd like to introduce you to ANY Indiana Jones stunts :P
@@armorclasshero2103nah dog, the cgi action gave it the star wars prequel effect, except minus the superpower payoffs, the pacing is rushed, and a lot of the lore included just feels like fan service. Also you are right in the sense that film is still incredibly derivative and pulls the entirety of its lesson from previous indi films
🤣 "Is Galaxy Quest secretly a Temple of Doom remake? No." 😂🤣 Seriously good video. I would watch a lot more of these, especially an Indy-style trap video. Bravo.
I'm gonna say it again. You videos give me inspirations, either for DnD adventures or perhaps comic plots. Such a helpful channel.
Definitely my favorite Indy movie! As a kid Raiders and Crusade were hard to get into because of the historic setting and focus on exposition. WWII and gangster movies were my least liked films as a child… Temple of Doom actually feels mostly timeless, takes off like a rocket, is bright & colorful, action packed, and everything else a kid my age needed to hook me.
I agree!!! My mouth dropped when I came across this video. LoL.....Temple of Doom was my favorite!!!
Indian cuisine is one of the actual most amazing in the world- as evidienced by its global spread. Of all the countries to slander this way...
FINALLY, someone else who thinks Doom
Why do people hate Crystal Skull so much? I think an Indy movie set in the 50s featuring aliens and Russians makes perfect sense, because those were the bad guys in the 50s! Is it just about the fridge? The escape from the plane in the inflatable raft is also ridiculous. Marion Ravenwood is 1000x better than Willie, and Cait Blanchet was an awesome bad guy. I honestly do not understand the hate, and I'm a lifelong Indy fan in my 50s.
I agree that the dinner scene is a complete mess, but according Roshan Seth (Chattar Lal in the movie): "Steven [Spielberg] intended [the dinner scene] as a joke, the joke being that Indians were so f***ing smart that they knew all Westerners think that Indians eat cockroaches, so they served them what they expected. The joke was too subtle for that film." I think this explain why Indy ignore the food and in the following scene brings edible food to Willie.
For a bit of context-I am a big Indiana Jones fan, and so I have read and seen a lot of behind the scenes content.
While the movie absolutely inspired racism in some viewers who struggled to separate fantasy from reality, I would argue that the intent behind the film makes it itself not racist. Most of the issue found are within Pankot, which is meant to serve as a funhouse mirror of Indian culture. The thugees know how the colonials view Indians, and they play into it to disturb the outsiders into leaving without looking “conspicuous”. In addition, the thugee portrayal is more a fantasy cult that takes elements from real cultures. I could argue that Dendar the Night Serpent and Yuan Ti are just as racist as the thugee in terms of portrayal, but we are able to separate Yuan-Ti worship from Aztec worship. There are subtle hints to show these aren’t Hindus, such as Mola Ram wearing a cattle skull. In a deleted scene, Indiana even comments on the dinner scene, commenting that he doesn’t know who they are, but that they are not Hindus because they were eating meat.
I agree that the film did a lot of harm to western views of India and that it played too strongly ito the “white savior” trope, but the film is not, in itself, as racist as you make it out to be.
Edit: totally forgot about the brownface. That’s gross.
I wonder how much shorter this video would be if you just said "this film is pretty racist" once, up front, instead of breaking your flow to complain about it every other sentence. You're not wrong- it IS pretty racist. Maybe focus on the point a bit more though?
Very unfortunate ad placement at 21:22
“One of Harrison Ford’s most unhinged line readings”… “Shop the Rooms to Go July 4th sale!”
I see that someone else said it, but the food would make sense if they were trying to gross out the commander into leaving early due to the threat he poses. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch for them to believe that the commander probably thinks himself superior to them and wouldn't dare insult his honor by eating anything he doesn't consider food, so they bit the bullet in the hopes they could get him to leave early and not stumble onto what they have been doing recently.
Indiana and co. just happened to be caught in the middle of this. This could explain how Indy got the normal food, he wasn't the intended target.
I beat for beat repeated the opening sequence for a waterdeep:dragon heist session. My players still say its the best session I've ran
Fun fact: Mola Ram's actor is Amrish Puri, which was an extremely prolific actor in India (in different indian industry but mainly bollywood) mostly because he played emblematic villains! So if you want to watch a fun movie with an iconic villain that is better with indian culture, you may wanna check his filmography
I came to the Indiana Jones series in my late twenties and loved the first movie and then felt like I was given whiplash by the tonal change of the second. I appreciate the CW list in the description but lol'd at the final one being "Kate Capshaw screaming"
Some other movies that can be great influences to D&D campaigns:
Star Wars: A New Hope
Guardians of the Galaxy
Predator
The Thing
Conan the Barbarian and Conan the Destroyer
Army of Darkness
The Haunting (the original)
The Goonies
Gremlins
The Haunting is still my all-time favorite horror movie!
Can we expect the other movies broken down like this? What a blast!
Agreed! This was so fun!
I've seen this Indiana Jones more times than the rest, not because it was good, but because it was cheap. When my sibling and I were kids, we had to stay home during the summer while our parents were at work. For this reason, we watched a lot of movies on HBO, but because HBO's daytime programming at the time was the cheapest stuff they could get, the movies were ones that didn't do well in theatres. Some weren't very good (like Temple of Doom), but others had a story that was more sympathetic, but ultimately tragic (like Mask - 'Rocky' Dennis, not Jim Carrey).
I'm not too impressed with the 'christians = good guys' messaging of 1 & 3. Making a 'nice' caricature of a religion with a long history of systemic opression and abuse is just as wrong as the negative caricature of hinduism in ToD. Sure, it was 'the church' that did all the evil crap from crusades, to inquisitions, to slavery, to child sexual abuse, etc., but because 'the church' did all these things to prop up a lie for the perpetuation their power, anyone who continues to support it becomes an accomplice.
I do just want to say that though it comes of as racist. The food scene is mentioned later by Indiana to be an attempt to scare them off.
I can honestly say I've never seen this movie and now I'm very glad 😳
But can also confirm that dropping characters into a locale where everyone treats them like they're the answer to their every prayer is VERY disconcerting to the players (ESPECIALLY at relatively low level) and extremely fun for the DM.
It’s such a shame, because I LOVE the first and third Indiana Jones movies
I only recently learned that movie was a prequel to Raiders and Crusade (I was watching it as a kid a lot and was used to the Lego games and just never paid attention to the date.) It’s also probably the easiest to understand example of Orientalism in 80s film.
I unironically love this film, because it's a great adventure film. Is it the best of this film series? No. Does it have problems? Yes. Is it still a fun ride with tons of incredible action and dialogue in it? Absolutely! (You could even argue that the action has to be that much better to make up for the bad choices, but that's not the conversation we're having.)
For me, it’s my favorite Indiana Jones movie. This movie knows what it is, and it is almost perfect.
Yeah Racists tend to like racist stuff
@@VARMOT123 If you knew me you would know that’s not the case. You are a self assuming individual with that statement without having any knowledge of me. You think I’m a racist because I liked a movie as a kid in 1984? It’s quite hurtful to be honest. You need to take a look at yourself and how you think before judging others. What you think to be true isn’t necessarily always true. I myself have been guilty of such a thing and I’ve had to rethink my own thoughts at times and realize I was wrong. People are always in a rush to make a judgement and that’s the problem in todays world. I was a 14 year old kid when this came out. Racism was the farthest thing from my mind, nor did it make me think this portrayal of Indian culture was truthful. It was a Indian Hindu cult doing these things. Not Indian people. I don’t have an issue if you think the movie has racial overtones. I understand why people see it from that point of view, and I can understand Hindus having issue with it, but don’t be hasty to accuse someone you never met, or anyone else for that matter unless you know them.
India has the highest veggie population and per capita consumption in the world and people thought in 1980s that indians ate that ?
RRR is great freaking movie. Long but so very worth it. If anyone is thinking of watching it, do it!
There is a type of tree fungus called "Monkey Head" which is enn some parts of East Asia, which is where the monkey brain comes from.
This is the first of your videos I've seen, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Your analysis and analogies to a D&D module are well done. I've designed many adventures in my homebrew as inspired by films and television episodes. This is a lot of fun to do, and I'm glad others can see the benefit. Especially in finding a way to make something not-so-great worthwhile. (My newest adventure is based on the Star Wars Resistance 2nd season episode that blatantly riffs on the Indiana Jones themes.)
I want to run this as an adventure now! My little hamster wheel is already spinning with ideas of how to drop this into my world!
As for mind control. I was hesitant to use it at first but then my players really leaned into it. It turns out we all have fun role playing it! But it’s definitely something that should be discussed early on and not just thrown at them. And I always let the players continue to control their characters while under mind control. This way they still participate in the game and agency isn’t completely taken away.
I feel like this movie is structurally good and well paced and entertaining but all the story content and cultural depictions are fairly horrifying. I think that's why it would work so well as TTRPG adaptation. Also, is Willie a bard?
Dude!!! I was watching it over the weekend. And I was like... stealing that. Stealing that.
Never realized people thought temple of doom was the least favorite of the main 3
Anyone else picture Liam from CR when he shows Indy doing the weird mouth thing in the trap scene?
I feel like if we want an example of 'getting someone out of a trap by a simple mechanic but other things get in the way," the first Avengers movie is a good example. I've been thinking of doing my own analysis of the attack on the airship being a good reference point for a combat encounter or just a challenge, and one of the reasons why is Tony and Steve repairing the engine. All Steve had to do to help Tony get the rotors moving was hold lever to keep Tony from getting sliced to pieces, but he got attacked.
Temple of doom is still a good movie with great action sequences. There, I said it.
The action sequences are tremendously good, that I’ll agree with :)
Given how much she seems to scream in it, I can't help but wonder if there's anything special about Capshaw's screaming abilities that went into the casting decision.
(This thought might be brought to you by my recently watching someone's reviews of S23 of classic era Doctor Who, and as such Bonnie Langford getting cast as Mel for, in part, her ability to scream iirc in key, which... She's actually gone on to have an incredibly accomplished career? Especially when it comes to her stage career. Kind of frustrating that that's one of the reasons she was cast and the material that was written for her is _gestures broadly at how much Mel's concept was wasted_ )
According to the behind the scenes content, she didn’t know how to scream for camera and had to be taught.
They cast her because she did a great job with the entitlement but also with being able to give Indiana Jones sass - but a lot of the latter seems to have been watered-down or misdirected during filming.
This was the first Indiana Jones movie I saw as a kid so it ranks pretty high in the series for me.
Oh for sure, I imagine that the reason Last Crusade is my favorite has quite a lot to do with the fact that it’s the first Indiana Jones movie I saw, and I watched it with my own father ☺️
Uh... the final comments about Indy not believing in magic during Temple... or going to Willie from Marion.
ToD is a prequel to RotLA, not a sequel, the release order for them is not chronological
Right, that’s why I said it makes no sense. Because it’s very strange that he believes in magic and sees it in this film, and yet throughout Raiders he vehemently denies all superstition until the very end.
Also, I didn’t mean Indy’s love life, I meant the experience for the creators and the audience. Although, yes, if ToD were a sequel it would be a downgrade for him as well.
@SupergeekMike great points, sorry I misunderstood, also funny that it fails for almost the same reasons as a sequel and a prequel to Raiders
From a story perspective crystal skull is the worst film. Temple of Doom's subject matter was a problem even back when it was made. Hell, it along with germlins created the PG-13 rating. But everyone has a different opinion which is totally valid. I definitely enjoy Temple of Doom from a story perspective more than Crystal Skull.
I mean, yeah. But in 1984, we didn’t know ANYTHING about most of the sociopolitical issues of today. We thought we’d have flying cars in thirty years, for Christ’s sake!
@@bensdreamatorium8315Today's sociopolitical issues definitely existed in the 80s. Colonialism, racism, and sexism were bad 40 years ago and still are today. They weren't mainstream, but it doesn't mean it was okay.
I'm not saying Indiana Jones or the people involved in Temple of Doom are terrible people that need to be canceled, but like Mike points out with the Maharaja's quote: it's okay to accept things were not okay and move on.
I certainly think the story has a lot of potential (I mean, that’s the premise of the video lol), a lot of it just comes down to poor execution, and some ill-considered ideas about how the Indian culture is depicted and some of the messaging.
@@SupergeekMike totally agree. That's why I love the story. Just wasn't executed in the best possible way
@@jlhitz35 But moving on isn’t as easy to do if those issues are still present, is it?
I agree that Temple of Doom is the worst of the 4, but I actually don't think it's *that* bad. I think there's a lot of concessions you have to make for it when showing it to new people for the first time but there's genuinely a lot to like in it.
32:30 I don't think the children are the victims of the mind control. It's some of the guards. Some of them are true believers, but others were forced to drink the blood. In a deleted scene, Shorty sees how a guard gets burned by a torch, and after that, he was normal again. Then his guard friends dragged him back to drink the blood again. This is how Shorty gets the idea of burning Indy and the Maharadscha. So yeah, the children are not mind controlled, just the Palace guards, which are separated from the true Thugges. Wouldn't make any sense to mind control the kids and to whip cracking them when they do it voluntarily
That content warning had me dying. I forgot how fucking dark that movie is.
Honestly the entire Indiana Jones trilogy is D&Dcore.
TEMPLE OF DOOM rocks! The only film in the series that's better is RAIDERS.
6:05. Is that sarcasm about a fuel dump? Do you not know that planes are designed to be able to do that? Because planes definitely can do that mid-flight, because it’s dangerous to do an emergency crash landing with fuel due to….ignition and explosions. so they can manually dump fuel and crash land dry so that anyone who survives the impact doesn’t then burn to death in a subsequent fuel fire. Perhaps it’s anachronistic that THIS plane in 1936 can do that, but planes in general absolutely can do that.
Short Round alone is justification for this movie
Planes can dump fuel. It's actually a standard practice for aircraft in an emergency to do so so that if they have to do a crash landing, the fuel is not an explosive or fire hazard, greatly increasing the survivability of those on board.
You complain too much this is a great movie with great acting and great story telling. whity. (Hence your complaint about white people) My only complaints with this movie is cart scene how does an oversized bucket of water gushing down the tunnels and mor dum getting on other side of bridge that's it.
High level Inquisitive Rogue who might also have levels in Fighter, a low level Bard/Rogue multiclass without subclass in either, and another low level Rogue.
Not the best party dynamic, but one that happens alot in movies like this, like two Rogues and a Bard in Road to El Dorado.
Red Letter Media did a re:View of this movie and described it best as a B-movie with a blockbuster budget, and I find this explains much about why Temple of Doom works so well for a D&D adventure. Some of the more mid-tier media - pulpy, borad strokes characters in actio -packed but not necesarily well thought out plots. Obviously we adjust these plots to make for something less racist, but there is a lot to be gleaned from mid-tier stories with broad characters and bolt action beats
The food part was definitely the worst part of the movie for me. I don't mind the racism so much, but that food seems like they were going for a shock factor rather than any sort of cultural callout. There's plenty of bad Indian food out there (not in the restaurants, I'm talking about home cooking), but it wouldn't hit as hard if they showed dry roti and bhindhi bhaji.
Do you ever use racist tropes in your D&D games (particularly to help establish a villain)?
IMO the perfect D&D esque ovies have been (of course the new D&D movie) Indiana Jones', and Brendan Fraser's The Mummy.
This has slowly become my favorite Indy movie. It is just so different from the other films and the films Indy inspired.
Also if you’re looking for more dnd movies, Conan the Destroyer is LITERALLY a dnd campaign. If you run that movie beat for beat every one would think it was a published adventure
Got another one: Road to El Dorado is what happens when you leave the bard and the rogue alone together for too long 🤣
The Conan films's are all DND adventures.
I as a Westerner kinda don't understand why Kali is framed as the devil in moives about India. From what I understand, which isn't a lot because religion is complicated, she's seen as a force for good in their own beliefs if uncontrollable. Might be totaly wrong on that but I'm certain human sacrifice was never part of it.
I see your point regarding objectionable content. But I rank movies first and foremost according how well they work as stories. And from that perspective Temple of Doom works great, while Crystal Skull is a complete train wreck.
Re: differing views on mind control. The first campaign I played in, one of the players got mind-controlled in battle, and the GM had the player still roll attack and damage rolls (so the GM didn't have to do the math) but also really got the players into the helplessness of the scenario. We didn't all like it, but it was an interesting psychological effect.
I'm so glad I went back to watch this movie, fantastic video! I absolutely want to do this now if I ever DM.
If you'd stop doing content warnings your videos would be two minutes long.
The worst? Did you not see the last two? Temple of doom is literally middle of the pack
Wouldnt it just be more efficient and easier to watch if you just say trigger warning at th start and let the viewer decide they wanna watch
I’m SORRY? Did you just decide to forget about Kingdom of the Crystal Skull? Like it’s your opinion an everything but… temple of doom isn’t even that bad
Cringe writing and bad CGI is not worse than racism and sexism ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@SupergeekMike idk I haven’t seen it in a while, so maybe I’m missing that part. Also note, I have not watched the video yet, so if you commented on it in there, I will see that later. I made this post while it was premiering. Anyway, I love you videos! Maybe I’ll go watch temple of doom again.
@@SupergeekMikeUnfortunately, I’m aware that there are a couple million people on this platform who would be more than happy to dispute/condemn you on that matter.
@@bensdreamatorium8315 They're welcome to their opinions. All I can do is make my arguments as clearly as I can, and then I can sleep well at night knowing I've said what I wanted to say.
Temple of Doom rules. You get a thumb down for shitting on it.
It’s too bad you see it as racist. Unfortunately, they left out a scene where Indy has a private conversation with the British captain and states a devoted Hindu would never eat meat and it makes you wonder what these people are. They clearly realize something isn’t right.
Unfortunately, without that context making it to the final film, that's ultimately not the message being presented. Additionally, that's just one scene - that doesn't change the fact that they put a white guy in brownface, or even just the low-grade racism we've gotten used to where Chattar Lal is presented as "civilized" because he's more familiar with Western culture, and is able to use this position to discredit the superstitions of the "natives." This form of racism and classism is so strong, it's literally still part of Indian culture, but it's still a form of racism.
Also, even if it weren't racist, that wouldn't make me like it - that scene is just stomach-churningly gross, as are so many scenes in this film.
@@SupergeekMikeYou make a fair point, and I completely understand where you are coming from. I just remember being 14 years old watching this in the theater and not even remotely thinking this is how Indian people live their lives. It was a cult, and a cult does not represent an entire culture. It’s quite the opposite. However, there are people who will watch a fictitious movie and believe everything about another culture as real which is unfortunate. I don’t think that’s what they were trying to accomplish here, but maybe I’m being naive, and want to think better of people. As far as being westernized. The real Sadam Hussein always preferred suits over the traditional Muslim clothing. So I’m not sure I understand you point on that. Maybe I missed something you said. Maybe it’s the age gap between us. The world has changed a great deal in my lifetime. Some of it for the better, and some of it for the worse.
I appreciate you taking the time to read my comment. I think it’s great we can comment without hurling insults at each other which happens to often here on you tube. This is what great debate is all about. On another note, I was a huge D&D fan and player for years and you are right on the money. I never thought about it, but Temple of Doom is a great concept for a campaign. Your efforts are noticed and you did a great job.
@@SupergeekMike actually something just occurred to me. I would also like to ask if you see the Germans being portrayed in the Indy films the same way. Clearly all Germans did not agree with Hitler and his Nazis regime but Germans are always being portrayed as evil in these films. Is that okay? I’m not sure what I think. I would like to know what you think about that. You can see racism everywhere if you want to see it. I know they aren’t eating bugs and monkey brains, but they are being portrayed in the same evil manner. The Thuggee did terrible things, and we all know what the Naxis did.
Jessica, your previous comment was fine, you accepted that we might not agree and that different people take different conclusions away from art. But this second comment has a lot more going on, and I’m gonna take a second to unpack them.
If we were to determine that the depiction of Germans in this film is unfair or prejudiced - and we’ll get to that question in a minute - that wouldn’t be seeing racism in the film. There is no commonly-accepted definition of “race” that separates German people from Caucasians, and a film that exclusively features Caucasian lead actors and was predominantly made by Caucasians cannot be racist toward white people. So, seeing any similarity between the representation of Nazis and the Thuggee would not fall under the category of “seeing racism everywhere.”
Next, let’s look at the Thuggee themselves and establish a baseline. Because the Thuggee in the film share very little in common with the Thuggee of history. (Assuming they were real, there’s debate over that subject but we have to assume they’re real at least for this conversation, or we’ll be here all day.) The real thuggee were more like a mafia, although some were religious and worshipped Kali. They strangled people, something we see in the film, but they did not murder women, something we see them plan to do in the film. Also, you know, they didn’t rip peoples’ hearts out and drop them into lava, nor force people to drink blood to brainwash them. And obviously they didn’t possess mystical powers. Additionally, voodoo is a practice that has nothing to do with India or the Thuggee, yet it is lumped in with them for the film. So it seems clear that the Thuggee in the film were an invention for the story, with no basis in reality.
Now, let’s compare that with the way the Germans are depicted. In the first film, the only Germans we see are Nazi soldiers. At no point do any of them behave ahistorically for how Nazi soldiers would have acted in this situation, except for the fact that they speak English for the benefit of the audience, and Toht has a cool coat hanger. Their mission is also directly tied with one horrible man, Hitler, laying their actions at his feet. And of course, the primary antagonist is not a Nazi, but a French archaeologist who works with them for his own ends. We’ll come back to that in a minute.
The third film again gives us two major villains who aren’t German Nazis - Donovan, who is an American aristocrat (and a Nazi) but who also has his own goals that he’s using the Nazis to accomplish. The other is Ilsa, a German archaeologist. Both of them are surprise villains - meaning, the film happily shows both of them as allies until later in the film. And this means the movie is being very clear that people from Germany aren’t assumed by Indy to be evil/Nazis.
But yes, the film gives Nazi soldiers the same treatment as in the first film, but here we DO see German society. We see wealthy Germans on a blimp, and the film offers no value judgement on them one way or another. And besides that, we see a book burning - something we know happened during the Nazi occupation - and we also get something very useful for our purposes. We see that Ilsa is visibly upset at the book burning. So, the film explicitly shows us that not everyone in Germany is in harmony with the Nazi movement.
However, the film also doesn’t let Ilsa off the hook. When she says she doesn’t believe in the book burnings, Indiana says, “You stood up to be counted with the enemy of everything that the Grail stands for. Who gives a damn what you think?” When we combine that with the other lead villains in 1 and 3, the French archaeologist and the American aristocrat, we see that the commentary around the Nazi is actually a statement condemning those who would work with Nazis despite the group’s heinous beliefs and actions, while trying to distance themselves from them. It’s condemning those who will pay lip service to denouncing fascists, yet will still do nothing to stop them.
Ilsa and Belloc and Donovan are not Nazis, but they are the sort of people that Martin Niemöller denounced and warned about in his “First they came…” poem.
And that’s to say nothing of the fact that Spielberg is a Jewish director, and he turned the Nazis into henchmen and bad guys who could be punched into submission, which I would imagine is immensely cathartic. Compare that to a film with no meaningful research into Indian culture painting them with a pretty broad, destructive brush.
So, no, I don’t believe the Nazis are depicted the same way as the Thuggee, there are a few pretty key differences.
@@SupergeekMike well thought out my friend, and thank you for the insight. I appreciate you taking the time for a well thought out answer for an insignificant stranger who truly wanted to know why you think the way you do about a certain film.👍……………it was a bad ass coat hanger!
Good DM's borrow. Great DM's steal... their ideas of course.
Dying to run this, my players are young women...they wont remember this
I’m glad to see you have the exact same opinion about the Indiana Jones movies as me
I am successfully inspired to run this as a campaign. Love it
I would love a whole series like this where Mike dissects a film as a series of vignettes to use when DMing
It’s something I did with Van Helsing, but definitely something I’ll do versions of in the future: th-cam.com/play/PLF5zBOWphfZD3MtGCnNi9bJ_zjtMnYUHG.html
@@SupergeekMike I loved the van helsing video as well! But something about the formatting for this one really resonated, it felt very digestible dissecting the story beat by beat and showing how to extract the good and leave behind the bigotry or poorly handled parts. Can’t wait to see what you make next! 🤗
@@SupergeekMike I hadn’t seen the Batman or clue videos yet! Thanks for the playlist, they look right up my alley
Literally the first line in the description: "If you’re gonna comment that “Crystal Skull” is a worse movie, remember: wall-to-wall racism is worse than cringe writing or bad CGI."
50% of the current comments: "BuT cHrYsTaL sKuLl !!11!"
You guys need to chill. That's why clickbait and commercials work on you.
ps: EFF YOU MIKE FOR LETTING ME WAIT!
No this is Peak D&D
www.youtube.com/@PeakDnD
🥁
I'll ask another question: what one's better? Ark or Crusade?
Better? Ark. My favorite? Crusade.
Crystal skull was worse. I'm sure others have said so already. 😅
I get more frustrated by Temple of Doom, but Crystal Skull is definitely also bad 😂
This is interesting, because I've never heard anybody claim Temple of Doom isn't the BEST Indiana Jones movie. Raiders isn't a story at all, just a sequence of events and action set pieces. The Last Crusade is a fun romp about a man re-connecting with his estranged father after years through their shared hobby, but that's more a tangentially related story about an established character, not a great example of what the series is actually about.
Interesting. I've never heard anyone call ToD the best in 30+ years. Maybe it's a generation thing?
@@Heritage367 My dad was born in 1970. Exactly the timeframe to get into those movies. Temple of Doom is his favorite, though he likes all of the first 3. Myself, The Last Crusade is my favorite, though Temple of Doom is objectively the better film.
I agree with all the other content warnings you provide, but "black magic"? I would assume that's only a problem for some very enfranchised who follow a major religion in the West?
I mean, the cultural appropriation of voodoo (and complete misrepresentation of it), that I can see having a content warning.
Maybe, but I don’t get to decide what bothers other people, so I’m just doing my best to properly prepare them for the content in the video/movie
I thought that the prime minister's name was Chattar Lal, not Chattar Lai.
Indeed, this was just something I misread in the Disney+ subtitles (or the subtitles had a typo) and I never caught the mistake until I uploaded it.
A twitch stream of Galaxy Quest would be sooooo good 🙏
Depending on how these streams go, some more movie streams could be fun!
5:45 What is the joke with the villain’s name? I’m not getting it.
It turns out there isn’t one - I thought his name was “Lai” (rhymes with “lie” because he’s lying), turns out it’s “Lal” and I just misread the subtitles 🤦♂️
TOD=GOAT
Lizard people would definitely eat some interesting stuff with insects and bugs and maybe even some small rodents or fish depending on what kind of lizards you were basing your character on. 19:06
About the mind control, for our group (we've been playing for more than thirty years) it's never been an issue. Just tell the player what the character feels and tell them to act according to that.
I enjoyed the movie back then and still enjoy it now. It's #3 for me. Right behind Last Crusade and ahead of Crystal Skull.
I enjoyed the dnd breakdown and agree that there are many things from this movie that would fit well in a game.
Is it bad that ive only seen crystal skull
Ohh you are missing out, Raiders of the Lost Ark and Last Crusade are legitimately great. (And there are clearly folks who still enjoy Temple of Doom more than Crystal Skull, though I suspect nostalgia plays a large part for some of them, but probably not all of them)
I don't know about the rest of the film, but I have to say the opening sequence of this film is one of my all time favorite scenes in Cinema history.
Yeah I know the characters are pretty racist, and Kate Capshaw dress is actually the worst, but man it's just such a good scene.
Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is easily the worst Indy film.
Oh, really? I must have forgotten the scene in Crystal Skull where a white guy in brown face whips a beloved child sidekick. Seems like that would stick in the mind.
While i understand the clear racism and sexism of the film is horrendous and is not ok, it is also a product of the time it was made.
Whilst it isnt the height of cinema it is imo by far a better movie than crystal skull.
That said its all a matter of opinion.
I find that the year 1984 was FAR too recent for “a product of its time” to be an excuse. People absolutely should have known better.
@@SupergeekMike being born in 1984 I can unfortunately say its nearly 40 years ago now, which is just shy of half a century.
Again I'm not condoning the actions and saying they are ok, but it was the way things were unfortunately in the 80s. Plenty of other films of the decade (not to mention the 90s) are equally guilty of these crimes.
My issue is you can't judge the quality of a film itself and cast it as "Terrible" movie due to some dated stereotypes .
I mean, I personally judge it as terrible for a BUNCH of reasons, and that’s just one of them.
Most of the kids in the mine weren't brainwashed, they're just being forced to work.
Second worst.
I mean, clearly I disagree lol
I thought that the Hindu gods were already in D&D?
At some point or another, I’m sure all of them have been
@@SupergeekMike I, to be clear, didn't think they were in any "main books", just thought I remembered seeing them in a supplement
I actually do think they were in the Deities and Demigods book from the 80s? That book included a BUNCH of real-world mythology in the book, it made some CHOICES lol
This video is really excellent, if you wanted to do more of this kind of thing where you look at a movie through the lens of how to adapt them to tabletop campaigns, I'd love that too :D
I’ve done it once or twice but it’s definitely something I’ll do more in the future ☺️
th-cam.com/play/PLF5zBOWphfZD3MtGCnNi9bJ_zjtMnYUHG.html
Wow, what a great video! Your best so far!
i like this video.
I'm sorry, I LOVE Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (it'd be better without Shia LaBeouf though), it's so deliciously unhinged. I also LOVED this video, so thanks Mike 😄