Neil Young, Bob Dylan and Paul Simon
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ย. 2024
- My weekly chat over coffee. I talk about what I did this week and what's been on my mind. It's a good way to spend a Saturday morning, I promise.
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Neil Young
Bob Dylan
Paul Simon
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Yeah love Paul Simon
Here's the link to that interview th-cam.com/video/e7ZyYcHMEc8/w-d-xo.html
I really enjoy hearing Otis talk about this and that - sometimes focused, sometimes kind of rambling, but always real and honest, low key. Also really dig his interviews with music people about their experiences. Keep it up!
Your takes are a breath of fresh air, Otis - much needed in this time of less-than-great ones.
Cheers Ottis l have listened to joe for along time l always thought it was a fair and balanced show thanks again Ottis
Years ago I was at the Great American Train Show and met a young man with a physical disability who was running a model train. He introduced me to his father who had invented the specialized controller that he was using to operate the train, Neil Young. I spent two hours talking to them and was blown away by Neil's intelligence and compassion. Joe who?
Scott I really dig the story about the trains and Neil. I have always been into the model trains. What a blast from the past. I think Neil invested or purchased Lionel trains if I’m not mistaken?
Looked it up. John Banner is buried in Mauer Cemetery in Vienna. But under the name "Johann Hübner". Something to do with someone not paying the cemetery fees.
My friend has been the producer of WTTW public television's "Soundstage" since the 1970s. She said: "Of all of the musicians I have met, Keith Richards was the nicest. Neil Young was by far the biggest asshole. And he was my No. 1 hero..." :(
@@DBTdad ...unless your hero is Keith Richards and you bring a little something... :D
Great commentary. Totally enjoy these videos.
Neil has always been a divider through his career, even breaking with life long friends..., not to dis him it's just a statement of fact. I played a couple of his songs just last night. On a spirit level he is deep and rooted, and for no one else to judge. I love Neil's Music.
Crosby had ir coming
Thank you, Otis 🙏
Appreciate you doing this video. Hopefully the squirrel got her peanut.
Many years ago, my immediate family trekked out to see Arlo Guthrie at a small venue in Nampa, Idaho. Great show with him and his family. At one point, he was talking about songwriting, and compared it to fishing. You cast your line, and hope to catch something worthwhile. His advice at that point was that one shouldn't fish downstream of Bob Dylan. We all laughed, knowing the history of Woody, Bob, and Arlo...
Keep being good to you 🙏🤍
This has become a Saturday ritual for me and my missus. Coffee, toast and "a bit of Otis". I watched The Barn last night and loved it. Neil Young was one of the first artists I got into through my own discovery - my older cousin had given me the heads-up on most stuff - so he has always meant a lot to me. It was wonderful to watch men in their Seventies behaving like a teenaged garage band. Long may they run. I have to admit, though, that when a little old man stumbled in and turned out to be Nils Lofgren I had a tear in my eye. Time fades away.
Otis, you should know about Mozart's sister. Before his dad instructed him and made him into a child prodigy, he had a daughter that he did the same thing with. She was a child star, and composed music and made her daddy money by touring and playing for amazed crowds. I don't know if any of her music survives, though.
Seemed like Neil and Spotify came to an agreement. Neil said take my music down if you’re keeping Joe and Spotify said ok.
@@zivkovicable Neil and Spotify will both be ok lol
Otis I love all of your videos that I've watched so far. I think I've watched about half of them. I also wanted to tell you I love the cds that I bought. The reason I bought 3 of the same was to keep one in my house and 1 in each vehicle. Thanks for personalizing for me. The cd cover makes a good addition on my music room wall. Yes I do give a damn. I will be buying more soon. I wish you and Amy the best.
Peace, love and harmony
Carl
Love your thoughts and insights Otis !
At 62 years old I don't know what spotify is - Wish the radio gets back to what it was in the 60's and 70's - Last year I broke down and got Siruis radio and although better than over the air radio it still is alot of repeats of the same songs - I've been trying to reach Willes roadhouse on Siruis to play songs that are never played but they are unreachable - I can give them a daily list of forgotten songs that are great but never played..
Anyone see the video on TH-cam where Neil young finds a bootleg album in a music store on sunset strip, he takes all he can find and leaves the store without paying for them.. I cant seem to find it. Was a few years back...I dunno.
Neil's a crank. One of the reasons i like him.
You are spectacular, Otis. Great warmth, intelligence, and humor, and you feed the squirrels. Just wonderful.
Great stuff as always . I've been enjoying your videos for the past week. You seem to have an appreciation for a lot of the same artists I listen to and enjoy hearing about. Who Dey🐯
That's was a great, but rambling interview Otis! I actually canceled my Spotify account just before watching this, but I should have maybe taken a deep breath, as you suggest. Anyway now I just want to go to Vienna and visit that cemetery. It sounds amazing. Much love to you, brother. And for god's sake, stay warm man!
The word imperfection fits Neil Young perfectly Otis, I've always said that the perfection of Harvest is in the imperfection. The ragged intros and endings of the songs is just awesome, it makes the music feel so spontaneous and organic, to me, it's what's missing from most music today!
Here's the Neil Young documentary. Did you dig it? th-cam.com/video/mbmkek5j6Vs/w-d-xo.html
Everyone should watch this and then listen to the album. If you have Spotify and can’t, get the CD, it’s only $15.
Listening in the background and the video seems so familiar, together in a way that sees and sounds beautiful
Absolutely Love. I thought of The Beatles Get Back and was thinking it was Neil in that style of documentary.
I know nothing! Loved Sergeant Schultz. Rock on Otis…
That is what spotify is banking on.
Ive been a Bob Costas fan for decades and I loved his "Later" program...I just hated that it was usually just a half hour or even an hour with a fav artist wasnt long enough. He knows his sports and his pop culture well.....Thanks Otis, I respect your thoughts on these vids and I look forward to more Saturdays with you.By the way, do you think youll ever go live one Saturday for like an hour or two and take questions and just comment on things? I think itd be cool. Just my 2 cents....
Sir,,, You had the perfect chance to say " brother that wont work for me"... Because of you I'm waiting to say that. Thank you.
Yet another great show ✌️😎you just keep showing these people how we do it down home ! Much love friend ✌️
I found you because of spotify. I cant imagine I would never have found you without Spotify. I mean theres that part of Spotify that I (not a musician) like.
Otis is on other services as well. I use apple, but if they did what spotify did I would leave too. Spotify lost $4 billion in value since Neil Young.
The biggest problem with the whole Spotify (or streaming in general) is that not a single artist signed away their digital rights before streaming. The record companies made a nice deal for themselves and screwed the artists. That also made publishing worth less than in the past. In the old days, if you owned your publishing, you were set. Now, you have to own your masters (basically be your own label) to make money streaming. The labels were too greedy (Cd’s are half of what they cost 20 years ago). If they’d had reasonable prices and stayed ahead of the internet streaming thing, they’d had been in much better shape. It is killing music more and more. Can make art if there is no money to live on doing it
The musicians have always been given the scraps at the end of the meal, and that was the 'good old days'. Take back the night and the music too.
I agree, 100% this is why the big labels that do this are only signing single artists now who will have big crowd concerts unlike others who might still have sold out for 1000--2000 but not as many as a single artist who has the 50,000 people at the concert. The problem is These Internet Streaming is a good example, take Now Dead Prince, he barely got the rights to his music as he was dying because he was seeing things like TH-cam and other streaming the $$ made from it being eaten by the big corperations who he had to get into a big legal battle over his music which 90% of the latter stuff was made on his own home studio just the final polish and pressing done by the big company so he had to fight to get the masters and was lucky to do this. Led Zepplin band had to overpay to get the studio masters in the 1980's at the time the drummer had died right after the Coda album just to own all the master tapes. Lucky they did as BMI or BMG I forget the name who would have had them had that massive fire that took the rare crap of these artists out for goodas well as 1/2 the old Blues artists that was not digitally saved in back up. Now we have to use a record and clean up as best we can the best surviving copies to preserve the music of some artists.
@@caseysmith544 analog pressings of vinyl have been skyrocketing, even through the last 2 years. As long as my library has a copy, I’m ok. It is a shame the way they neglected those tapes and the safety backups in the same place without climate control.
I’m with you Otis, I’m neither here nor there with Spotify, I don’t use it, I prefer Apple Music and Apple Music pays more per stream for artists and they started lossless streaming on just about all titles bs k in June . I agree though about the old deals people made with their labels and what they get from streaming, that’s why they get less, the key is to own your own music and you will get more from streaming.
Otis I have no clue weather you read the comments or care about what is said in the comment section. You know it’s so funny that we have had all the late night personalities that I have listened to over the years. None of them compare to you. I look forward every day to pull you up on TH-cam and can’t wait to here what you have to say. I believe I totally live in the past and so much of what your topics hit on seem to take me back. My goodness I wish my three boys could have seen how different it was just 40-50 years ago. They look at me like I’m crazy when I tell them about pulling in a gas station and ding ding!!! A guy would come out and pump the gas clean the windows and check under the hood. (I know that’s a strange example). Anyway as days go past more and more from those days slip away. I try to be optimistic towards the future Otis but something is really missing. So please take care of yourself and keep on keeping on. And I will keep hitting the like button. God Bless you Otis.
Yes,and they knew how to do little things like change a fuse , and make change😊. Customer appreciation and customer service is pretty much a thing of the past. But then again we’ve been living under the threat of nuclear war for a long time. So I think the past is mixed, and sometimes I think longing for the past is simply longing for our youth, for the way we had our whole lives in front of us.
Kurt I agree with you about how different it was. I have to add to your comment that not only do I remember full service gas stations, I remember .25 per gallon gas. I remember when mini skirts just became the fad and the Beatles on Ed Sullivan. Good times, good music, what we older guys refer to as "the good ole days". Take care.
Thank ya kindly, Kurt. I personally feel good about the younger generation. The kids are alright! : )
Even in the 1990's how things were then in that era and most of it is gone.
I know of one place in town Pierre (Pier) South Dakota that has the Gas people who do that and if not too cold the windows. The place gets buisness a lot in the winter on days people should not be outside. They wear these winter gloves along with these Sinclare Jackets that have the name of the place on them the owner as well, Don saying Don's Sinclare. Lots of older people who do not take the cold as well as most are the ones going to this place mostly though some people in a hurry go there in winter. In better weather at or above 30 F if not high winds (South Dakota is a Plains state) they ask if people need the gas pumped or windows washed.
@@otisgibbs
Right on Otis… that is why I love to listen to you. Such a positive individual. God Bless you my friend.
💞 positive protest has great value...✌ 🎶🐦 thanks
What ya say, Otis? I had a squirrel as a roommate back in the early 90's. He was blown from the nest in a hurricane so my former wife (and current great friend) raised him as our own. My wife was a school teacher and he ate every one of her pencils. Grouper we called him and I have many stories. Maybe some day we'll have a beer and I'll tell about Grouper jumping on the back of the mailman. Of course, he grew up, met a girl squirrel and moved away...such is life. Anyway, enjoyed the video, appreciate you being the voice of reason , or at least not the voice of unreason. Take care, brother.
*Trouper not grouper. Damn autocorrect.
$20 a year for the Neil Young Archives subscription is more than worth it. The app is great too
The cemetery where all the great composers decompose.
Haha! I wish I would have thought of that one, William! : )
Great comments and insights, Otis. Thanks for the heads up on the Neil Young Barn series. Will have to check that out.
Otis, always fun and thoughtful 👍🙏
The Costas show was terrific.
Bob was well versed on not just sports but pop culture.
Your right there with your obscure knowledge of the world. Love your presence.
What the hell we doing with cheese. Made me laugh!
Keep on rocking in the free world.
As others have stated, I look forward to Otis' vids. A renaissance man.
I was never a big sports fan but I loved Bob Costas as an interviewer. I think I've found that interview on TH-cam and will queue it up later.
Interesting fact about John Banner. In Vienna where he was buried you lease your burial plot. His wife passed before him and he had no other family (they all perished in concentration camps) and his lease expired and his remains were actually dug up and discarded. There is a short video on this on YT channel called Cool Classics. It's 5 minutes long and covers his life and career. Sorry l don't know how to put in links. Hope everyone has a great day! Love ya Otis
l love the honesty
man I have real problems and worries. I don't know how people have so much energy to be mad all the time at stuff they actually can't do anything about.
I really enjoy the Barn Doc. Old guys making music and enjoying themselves. I love Dylan, always have but he’s all about the $$.
You're correct, the system is working exactly as it should. If you state qn opinion, you have the right to state that opinion, and everyone else has the right to express a reaction to that opinion. Its a beautiful thing. ✌
I'm saying this as a big Joe Rogan fan.
One thing about Neil Young he is willing to put his beliefs above income, I take my hat off to him
Thanks, Scott!
Great background shot today. Reminds me of a Christmas card.
Many years ago, for my 16th birthday a bunch of friends, Dad and myself visited Jimi Hendrix's grave site. Small plain flat marker, one of many surrounding it. Could only tell from all the trinkets and roaches left. I did the whole pencil tracing.
Would love to find that. Was pretty cool, but alittle surprisingly simple for such a person. Dig the videos, take care.
Hey Otis, thanks for enduring the cold and feeding the squirrels for us. I thought that the barn documentary was fantastic, especially the cold beer song! It was great to see Billy Talbot on bass laying down the groove. Nils Lofgren sounded awesome too. I commute three hours a day so spotify is a lifesaver. I respect Neil’s point of view though. I admire people that take an unpopular stance on something if they feel it’s necessary even if it isn’t “what I would do”. I thought you addressed this subject fairly. Your videos help us get through these cold winter days! Carry on…
i saw an like his barn show. grew up with his & CSN . frins in college,Spearfish,SD i tink imbodied the spirit of front porch jams. ( local bar had Single Jim at the Back Porch hipoint bar, with parrot Snepp the wunder dog. his brother stated at our appartments in the 60's hells angle/banditos of the Black hills, but Jim was pro musician for decades, oh barber at canyon lake that flooded in june 9th '72 )
I was in a cheese Shop in Wisconsin, and it had this White Curd Cheese and Whey smell along with that beer smell, like the good unpasteurized beer smell. This place had a smell to it, for sure. It was the original House of Mouse cheese shop about 20 miles north of the Madison area. They also had other cheeses, but the Vacuum packaging or similar kept the smell more to the cheese unlike the one in the tub. That is the problem with most of the Cheese places in the USA that are not done the old ways the way some Deli Cheese places are done is that the packaging keeps the smell at bay.
We wish our cheese stunk as much as the Euro cheese shoppes. Always a pleasure to listen to this laid back man. G’day Otis.
💕 yea, Neil is an artist 😆 I love ❤️ him. And, he has had enough! With the backing of Warner Brothers!
Funny thing about the Salieri thing is that the only evidence of jealousy is Mozart complaining about Salieri getting jobs that he wants and more recognition. Salieri was the more successful one during his lifetime, and if anyone was jealous, it would have been Mozart, although it seems like they got along near the end of his life.
Hello Otis,I really enjoyed listening to your video today! John Banner was the actor's name. He died in early 1973,he was only 63. Personally I've never used spotify. You didn't mention what year & how old you were when you were visiting the graveyard & all the sites. Stay safe, warm & healthy!
Watched Barn last night with some IPAs and really enjoyed it
Otis coffee and shovel ready ....brother enjoy your weekend
John Banner played Sgt. Schultz. Loving these reminiscences and interviews. Amazing stories. Thanks!
Otis - just curious - what podcasts do you suggest we check out? Love your old podcast!
OTIS ........It's 3 degrees here in southern Ohio . I know it has to be similar temps in Indiana . Mid West TUFF !! Sorry about the rant I posted earlier , I deleted it . I wanted to ask you a recording question ? Do you have any analog recording gear ? 4 tracks or cassette or reel to reels ?
Thanks for the spotify comments. I am very curious about how streaming listens on different platforms affect artist pay. Also does paying subscriber's listen increase the amount an artist receives. If I pay 10$ a month and listen to 1 song that month, does that artist get a larger chunk? If anyone has more info I would appreciate the enlightenment.
Unfortunately that is not how it works, as I understand it. I'd personally love it if your subscription fee is just split up between only the artists that you listened to that month.
Lovely backdrop
I’m just gonna say it. This was, for me, your most beautiful podcast ever. Thanks pal. Much love to ya.
How cool is that, to write songs on Hank Williams Martin Guitar!
It looks like the Paul Simon/Bob Costas interview is on TH-cam! th-cam.com/users/results?search_query=paul+simon+bob+costas
"...Folk rocker David Crosby, a former bandmate of Young’s, tweeted that he would remove his music from the service, but “I no longer control it or I would in support of Neil.” That’s true for many rock stars lately, who could deal a blow to the streaming service if they hadn’t sold their entire catalogues already for large sums..." Travis M. Andrews Washington Post 1/31/2022
Reason why selling an artists work or catalog work means more than money.
I liked the Bob Costas interview show. I was never a sports guy, but he was a fantastic interviewer.
John Banner played Sgt Schultz
one of my favorite tv characters ever
Back in the mid 80s I was a doorman/bellboy at the Hyatt in Minneapolis. One of the perks was all the celebs that stayed there and the interaction I was privy to. Carry Mick Jaggers luggage, playing after hours bb with Bob Jovi at the hotel gym, sharing a smoke with Lou Reed, playing cards with AC/DC.
But one of the biggest thrills was carrying Werner Klemperers bags and violin to his room when he was in town sitting in with the Minnesota Orchestra.
I don't really understand where Paul Simon came from with that comment. Dylan has gone out of his way to praise his heroes from 'Song to Woody' on in songs, linernotes and interviews ever since - not just on Theme Time Radio Hour. Of course he is also quite frank about his preferences, and he tends to be more favorable to the musicians who came before him than his contemporaries. Maybe Simon felt a little short of appraisal from Dylan at some point - I think Robert Shelton talks about a mid-1960s incident between the two in his Dylan biography 'No Direction Home' (1986)...
Love these morning "chats" but I think I got cross-eyed watching you and the nut both, which has some poetic justice I think (grin here). I sooo wanted to move that peanut around the tree just a little bit so scaredy squirrel would take it.
“Theme Time Radio Hour”..??? Dylan..? Gotta check this out..
Its awesome.
Costas' show was on late. Like, maybe as late as Tom Snyder or somewhere in between. I loved Costas' long form, in depth approach. Then he became the commissioner of baseball.
Here's a short glimpse of Falco's grave. th-cam.com/video/AqzCEAj1vgI/w-d-xo.html
Thanks Otis. 'I try to stay away from this stuff..'
Then you go on say something in jest that is not only hilarious, but very profound, keen.
"The cops are coming for me, I said something bad about Spotify"....Gold Otis.
Right after we see Minnie (2nd time) @ 3:35 some much larger creature is passing by (out of focus) behind you in the next yard.
Your Doing great Mr. Ottis watch all ur vids. With you on sat. Mornings or when I can, but the name of Sgt. Scults is John banner👍. Till next time take man 🤠🌴🇺🇸
Central Cemetery - Vienna Austria. also - Thank you Otis for this even minded rhetoric on Neil's decision... and now Joni's.
great segment, otis!
"...For each dollar of revenue Spotify earns, 58.5 cents goes to the owner of a song’s sound recording (usually a record label), Spotify keeps 29.38 cents, 6.12 cents goes to whoever owns publishing rights (usually the songwriter) and 6 cents goes to mechanical rights (often, but not always, owned by the songwriter), according to Manatt, Phelps & Phillips, a financial consulting firm..."
Washington Post 2/2/22 'For many musicians, their grudge against Spotify runs deeper than Joe Rogan'
The Barn.....is great!!! go there....
Where do you live OTIS? It's snowing here too.... the northeast somewhere?
I thought Neil sold his music or 1/2 of his catalog a while back? Also, thanks for the tip on one documentary. I’ll look for it.
apparently his tombstone reads 'Johann Hubner' thanks as always for the thoughts Otis
I love a lot of Neil's music, but little-by-little, I lose a lot of respect for his views. We have gotten to a point in our society in which, if we don't like what someone says, we can call it "misinformation." Don't get bit by a squirrel, Otis.
Another chilly morning in Kingston, about -7f, but I'm inside with my dog, nice cup of Joe and the furnace is doing its thing 👌. I love Spotify for introducing me to artists I would never hear (example Colter Wall, Mandolin Organge (can't recall their new name), Molly Tuttle). My local radio stations don't play those artists. The music stores I used to go to are long gone leaving only used stores (no new music playing back in the day at Sam's or HMV). We have a vinyl shop in town, really nice place but the selection is limited. Spotify helps me listen before I buy. To be honest I listened to Otis streamed before I ordered the 4 CD's I have.
I appreciate Neil's stance against Spotify but it's not like he's against streaming - his music is a Apple right?
Anyways - I really love these Saturday chats, listening to Otis and the wild squirrels! Be well, stay safe and let's hope the groud Hog can bring us an early spring for 2022.
watching
Kingston Ontario or Pennsylvania? I know what you mean, My local radio station only one on FM does play the Black Keays but not other artists off same label like one I like from Indiana called Left Lane Cruser who I need to get the CD's of. I like the music as it sounds way different for even Alt Country Rock then most others out there.
snow blizz here
Otis have you ever given some time to the NY & CH album “Greendale” ?? You’d LOVE it!!
i laughed so hard when the sirens came on and you said ,,,their coming after me for saying something bout spotify ,LMAO,,,,,love your show otis love it rthanks buddy hope we meet and jam music im by philly
"Later with Bob Costas," 2 episodes with Paul Simon..
Consider what Leonard Cohen said about being with Dylan. Kind of leans toward Simon’s way of thinking
Dear Otis, which aught to be a song title , Was the squirrel and nut an intentional metaphor ? lol just playing :)
John Banner played Sgt Shultz . And he saw Nothing ☮️❤️🎶
Spotify is not the problem, the big issue is with the record companies who since after WWII have wanted to keep as much of the money or the rights over the music to make money on it. Now it is so bad that they control what we can get in terms of new music that everything since 2009 on up has been sounding these few styles. It has gotten so bad that some like Black Keays or White Stripes had to make their own studios to record music and they have since started signing other bands to the label when they got enough money. Even Green Day since the 2010's after 21 Century Breakdown just sends in a finished CD/Album to Warner Bros who they are only using to get the music out to the people with no other work done to it by anyone despite claims they did, maybe they ran the vocals or the entire track though autotune but that is it.
I think these new Labels created by musicians where they allow the artist to own the songs still are the way forward for music even if they do not make it to the popular music stations even if the bands are the best selling new music on the market like one of Black Keys Albums El Camino. The need for these studios has gone down for some like, I do not Know How But You Found Me who use digital programs and have a big company do the pressing but some studios with actual studios can still do analog recordings where they do Analog to digital that nobody else can do in studio or is willing to do. That is what Black Keys and White Stripes have done with the bands they sign is record Analog then to Digital for CD and backup safety should the original get messed up but using a straight Analog to Digital so it is not compressed like MP3/ most CD style recordings.
casey smith You make a good comment; and music has now become an 'industry' and one that Woody Guthrie would have wrote and and sang about if he were here today. Money and totalitarianism have always been family.
It's not for dullards!!!
Sad to have Neil gone from Spotify, but I agree with his cause and would have done the same thing if I had his amount of listeners. Right before he was off spotify I had been listening to Harvest Moon on there and now, apart from TH-cam I have no way of hearing that one so I'll have to pick up a copy somewhere. Luckily I got Harvest on tape a week ago. As always, it's great to hear your perspectives on things and I'm gonna start the Neil documentary now!
Costas' interview with Paul McCartney is not to be missed.
Neil Young makes great music but has become less stable in last 10--15 years by at one point tried to do his music only on this amazing type of portable Digital player that could handle uncompressed/non MP3 type music that failed due to its price. Then Neil Young tried to do CD's that were not MP3 style so they could only get 4 songs per CD and the package would have 3--4 discs, just trying to do this stuff that average people do not care about or want to spend the money on like the CD's charging $30+ for a 3--4 CD pack when they are last time I got a CD in mid 2020 for a Green Day CD, $15--$20 for about 9--10 songs and Neil Young had about the same amount of songs on the 3--4 CD's.
Neil is a lifelong favorite purveyor of truth. And my favorite curmudgeon. Maybe it started a round 1970 w/"Ohio". Or maybe in 1966 w/"For What It's Worth". Keep on rockin', Neil.
Otis, you seem a little squirrely this morning. That is pretty damn allright!
th-cam.com/video/mbmkek5j6Vs/w-d-xo.html Neil's Barn
Thanks for your insights as usual. Truly enjoy your stuff. Yeah, loved the Barn stuff. He did a movie you should check out sometime. Basically, his new wife shot it on her iPhone... the movie is horrible, BUT it was shot when he was working with "The Real", and there is a fantastic campfire scene where Willie's Son does an outrageous version of Angel Flying to close to the ground.
Thank you, Christopher!
It is called Paradox...