Merckelbagh Needlefire Conversion Rifle
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This is an example of a needle fire conversion of a French 1822 rifle based on the patent of L. Merckelbagh. The conversion was done in Paris, probably in the early 1870s. Other base rifles were converted as well (like this example collegehillars..., but like most upgrade conversion systems it does not appear to have been commercially successful. Unfortunately, there is virtually nothing I could find written about the man or design.
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Forgotten Weapons
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Flintlock to percussion to needlefire, this is just a few conversions away from a plasma rifle in the 40-watt range.
Just what you see here, pal.
Railguns when?
SlyPearTree yeah? A 40 watt plasma rifle won’t penetrate powered armor.
@@taggartlawfirm
Using an actually useful power would not be historically (movie history) accurate, not that 40W of pure energy cannot do damages.
@@taggartlawfirm It'll melt it.
For some reason I find this particular rifle very pleasing. I can only imagine the original owner proudly showing off his newly converted gun to his friends I bet he got brought a few beers for a chance to shoot it
First thought, needlefire, don't see those much.
Second thought, that's actually a pretty elegant conversion in the grand scheme of things. Using as many of the original parts as it could, while also, showing the new tech. That removable bolt? Simple engineering and a link, spring for safety.
Still..... I can see why it wouldn't have taken off. You have to have the rifle, in the first place, pay more to convert it, then still replace the need and rubber. I'd take a whole new rifle in these new fangled cases thank you very much. Probably going to cost me less in the long run too.
God bless the innovators, the tinkerers, the professionals and the amateurs one and all for giving us our modern weapons.
These rifles *merkel* the waters, a bit like sticking your hand into a *bagh* and see what comes out. Like finding a *needle* in a haystack.
and then some one polished the bejesus out of it.
this is one of the smartest conversions ive seen
Why stop the conversion process here, after flintlock to percussion to needle fire? Someone please buy it and convert it to rimfire metallic cartridges, then center fire cartridges, then gas-operated semi-automatic fire, then belt feed.
Finishing with a rail gun conversion
The problem is most of the black powder guns can't handle smokeless powder.
@@LeCharles07 Yeah. I suppose we'd really run into problems when it came time for the phased plasma rifle in the 40-Watt range conversion.
@@fastmongrel no, after railgun conversion just put a bayonet on it and cpnvert it into a spear.
Imagin if there ever was a gun that was originally a matchlock and then converted into flintlock, caplock , brech action ,magazine , semi-auto, and then a full auto
I whould love to see jou shoot this. Verry Nice gun!!!
another great video
God damn I love this kind of stuff.
Tho shall not use gun Jesus's dads name in vain, unless you just shot your toe off then he allows it! ;)
Very interesting rifle Sir
Another great video , thank you.
Actually you could change the needle for a firing pin, then insert an adaptor on the rifle and shoot modern brass bullets with it.
Reminds me I still don't own a BP gun yet.
Bakers Rifle next!
Yes! I love all the kewl firearms from RIA 🤸
Pretty cool. Why would some of the paper cartridges have the primer up by the bullet. I understand that the chamber strength would direct the bast forward, but it seems rather inefficient to me. Any reason not to have the primer at the base of the paper cartridge?
As far as I know, there was a theory that if you ignited the powder at the base of the bullet, you'd get better combustion. Eventually this was proven either false or not worth the hassle and it was dropped
No reason at all. They hadn’t thought of it yet.
The weight of the bullet and some resistant a bore, provides a level of firmness for more positive ignition. With primer pellet at base, the firing needle's hit could be cushioned by powder, etc. potentially resulting in misfires. At least that is what a collector stated at a Chassepot firing demonstration I attended a few years ago. I presume that advanced collector had some valid perspectives.
Saw an article some time ago, the author had experimented with brass cased blackpowder catridges and getting the primer flash out to the front of the powder charge with a small bit of brass tubing attached the the primer flashhole. The Idea was that the powder would burn better in a static column, front to back than in an expanding column being blasted down the barrel while it was trying burn. If I recall his conclusions correctly. He did get more power from the powder charge, meaning higher velocities, less fouling down the barrel and maybe better accuracy (not sure about the last). The down side was that the fouling and the heat created was concentrated around the chamber causing dificult chambering within just a few rounds. Also the little tubes didn't last long enough to make it practical. Still, a cool concept.
All good points here. I would add also the needle would get destroyed quicker because it would need to be thinner to pierce more material and be exposed to more angry boom.
so is the cap made of cardboard or paper or something?
Why is thare a amaracin bolt action rifle but no needle fire rifle
Do you think someone sent a comment by pony express admonishing the manufacturer for the finger grooves?
Our Lord and saviour, Gun Jesus hath spoken his word, how blessed are we
Any more info on the original 1822 rifle?
Don't know for this one. French model 1822 were produced as smoothbore muzzleloader .69 flintlock muskets. They were rebored to 18mm (.71) and converted to percussion after 1841 (renamed 1822T) and rifled after 1857 for the new minié ball (renamed 1822 T Bis). Belgium produced copies of 1822 variants until mid 1860s. During the 1870-1871 Franco-Prussian war, some were converted by private armorers and gunsmith to Tabatiere breechloaders.
jo dc wow, the French sure like to reduce, reuse, recycle
Didn't the Belgian army use those in WWI?
why no link to rock island on forgotenwepons.com like there use to be?
lucky43113 Because TH-cam doesn’t like firearms so it restricts his videos if the directly links the firearms auctions.
@@NBSV1 i know that he use to link them on his personal website but thats not even there now
Are there any notable conversions which were successful?
The trapdoor and Snider come to mind.
Luke S the Chassepot and the Dryse needle rifle.
FLINTLOCK!? not pistol but is this a flintlock???
"Was" a flintlock. The original rifle was a flintlock, then converted to percussion lock, then converted to breech loading needlefire.
@@jcorbett9620 and had it been more common the Belgians would have bored it further and sold it as a shotgun later on.
Russia also had needlefire rifle. Designed in 1865, tested in 1866, adopted in 1867, replaced in 1868.
It was not replaced completely. The Carle was used extensively by Caucasian forces in the Russo-Turkish war 1877-1878
@@poppasquat8483domestic production of Berdan N2 started only in 1872, and was going pretty slowly, so there was no sense to just drop obsolete rifles. Anyway in that war most common russian rifle was Krnka
I saw one in Navy museum in Vladivostok
A really short life
Ah, the capricious days of the cartridge revolution...
From a flintlock to a percussion cap then to a needle fire, that old firearm certainly did not want to go away.
In 2019 the French military announces the FAMAS will be replaced by a .223 conversion of the 1822 flintlock/percussion/needle rifle.
that rifle has no business having a 1km sight on it
Well, considering it was made still during an era of line and column, when massed fire was common, it's far less egregious than something from the 1910's.
If I designed a car, the speedometer would max out at 1,000mph (regardless of cqpqbility).
It's mostly for harassing fire.
It was designed in the day of volley fire doctrine (fire high and have lead raining down from above which worked against fortifications).
@@JohnChoidotOrg Yeah, if you designed it to be driven on a planet with very little atmosphere and very steep hills.
"host rifle", like needle fire is a kind of parasitic infestation.
Or a guest invited to a party.
@@korblborp fair point.
I don't know why but I enjoy these videos about older firearms a bit more than modern firearms.
Taylor Bodeman Well modern firearms are all pretty much based off a few different platforms. It’s interesting to see the guns when massive innovations was going on.
just like old mre vs new mre
History is fun
Because they are more interesting cuz back in the day there was more room for improvement and people tried all kinds of crazy stuff
FYI: You noted looseness of bolt, the dried out, hardened rubber obturator contributed to your observation. Having fired a renovated a collector's Chassepot, with custom fabricated cartridges, a fresh obturator does tighten up bolt closure.
While true, the more important point is that the lug on that bolt handle does not appear to be bearing on anything anymore. That's an issue, because that is the locking lug...
I also have and shoot a Chassepot (all matching original) and obdurator or not the bolt locks up like a bank vault. This gun looks heavily over cleaned/polished, so I am not surprised things are loose.
Didn't consider the over polishing, good observation on your part. The Chassepot shooting experience was great. The collector demonstrated the steps he went through making the cartridges, making experience all that more interesting. BTW: He had to make replacement needles.
@@eVVigilance I think you're both correct the shrunken obdurator could cause it to not seat properly as it's not as long as it should be. It has shrunken from use and age so it's not as long as it should be (I try to use the same excuse for my partners as well but being young it doesn't work)
I thought the name was a Belgium ripoff of Nickleback
LOOK AT THIS GRAPH
LOOK AT THIS MATH
I’m pleased to say I’ve now watched enough FW to know what a needle fire rifle is, even before starting :)
No doubt! Ian has been feeding me a master's course 15 or so minutes at a time every dang day for well over 2 years now and I enjoyed every moment of it. This channel is amazing.
I know the feeling, I knew that was a Belgian proofmark before he stated it
yeah, when I started watching this channel I didn't know what a bolt was!
Maybe because my high school history teachers had some gun knowledge, I knew pretty much what needle rifles were long before I started watching Forgotten Weapons.
How did Prussia so thoroughly defeat Austria in the late 1860s? Needle rifles over muzzle loaders and advanced railway and telegraph use learned from the American Civil War. Thanks AP Euro History
This one actually answers a question I've had since learning of the French and Prussian rifles (not going to try to spell them LOL), and that was if any percussion rifles were converted over to needle fire. Thank you Ian.
The design was invented by Louis Merckelbagh of Liege, Belgium, operating out of No.8 Southhampton Buildings, London, in January 1871. The particular model was built by Liege gunmaker Jules Bertrand, who was mainly associated with pistols and revolvers. This appears to be an attempted venture into the sporting market - but the idea evidently never took off, and why would it? Given that needle-fire had had its hayday. In Britain where Louis was based, one could buy the Needham or Wilson needle-gun.
Interesting to see in a fine sunday evening here in the philippines
It might be interesting to make modern needle fire cartridges with molded PVC cartridge cases. Should be as waterproof as brass and might be self obturating.
I think the main issue with needles is that they had a fairly short life expectancy before being eroded away to the point that they can not hit the primer, though with modern materials it probably wouldn't be that bad
@@TheHacknor The Dreyse needle as eroded by being buried in the charge wen it fired but the Chassepot needle was not in the charge but suffered from being thin and sharp to penetrate the rubber rear sealing disk. This Merckelbagh seems to avoid both issues.
If the needle design was standardized it could be considered an expendable commodity. By a box of shells and a needle comes with the box.
You gotta keep in mind there’s no extraction. Everything you put in the chamber has to either burn completely or fly out the muzzle. Even paper cartridges of the time could jam up the chambers in these guns. Even if the PVC burns all the way now you’ve a chamber full of molten plastic
You could probably easily 3D print new cartridges
This is why I love this channel :)
With the "é" accent on the E letter, the word "breveté"(patentED, whereas "brevet" ([bruhvay]) means "patent") actually would rather be pronounced [bruhvtay] instead of [bruhvett]: this final E letter is indeed not mute (because of the accent).Thanks for a very interesting video!
Using a rubber casket to contain a fire that burns at hundreds of degrees is giving me Space Shuttle flash backs.
Neat video! It is nice that you cover some of the "newer/newest" & quite odd guns out there, but the black powder conversions are some of my faves, thanks so much for covering this!
Covers the same ground as the Samain pure bolt action conversions to the same flintlock/percussion/musket/rifles. Took the same Gevelot 1868 centre fire cartridges as the M1867 Tabatiere. I had Samain once which had run the whole series of conversions from AnXI flintlock musket through percussion musket, percussion rifle, bolt action rifle to 12 bore shotgun. The sights on the Merckelbagh looks to have been taken straight off surplus production for the Enfield Pattern 1853 rifle muskets which were made in Liege. The Samain is almost as forgotten as the Merckelbagh but were made in the tens of thousands for the French National Government after Sedan. I suspect that France was the intended customer but the war finished before the Merckelbagh could be put into production. Cunning to make a lock that could use the existing percussion hammer.
*_Last time I was this early...._*
*Who am I lying to?.. I've never been early to any of your videos.*
Conversion rifles are interesting
Neat rifle, great video as always. Thanks for bringing those cool pieces for us to see. Since you did speak the word, here are a couple of nerdy things about "Breveté". On the rifle it's spelled "bréveté" in capital letters (I can't do that on my keyboard). Or so it seems, if those are not blemishes. And it's OK to put accents on capital letters in principle, btw, surprising as it may be. But the correct spelling, at least today, is "breveté" IIRC, for the adjective, without the first accent. Odd. Anyway, more to the point for english speakers, as to pronounce it, with only one accent, is something like bruhvuhtay, where the uh sounds like in purr and the ay like in tail. Yet, strangely, the related noun is "brevet" without accent. And that is pronounced like bruhveh as in mud and best. Goes to show ya...
Examined this particular needle-ignition rifle during our visit to BAPTY 2000 Ltd, during our research into needle-ignition systems and conversions.An interesting project for research and develop a cartridge to get shooting.G and L A-R-West
The Nickelback needlefire conversion rifle?
looks like what Davy Crockett carried in the comic books that had the 45 vinyl record in the back slip cover... the picture/drawings often showed him swinging this type rifle to knock the bad guys out... always cool artwork.. from the early 80's
I’ve often wondered about the feasibility and marketability of a modern reproduction needle gun
It wouldn´t be imposible to make a reproduction. but I am kind of shure that who ever makes that, will not get their money back.
Might not be as bad as you think. We have CNC machines now. If you take an old rifle barrel you might be able to do machining of the barrel in one setup. The new breach is only a few pieces. Hardly any of the new parts are moving ones. The trick would be getting the donor rifle cheap and in good quality.
@@someguy2741 As a result of the breach loading nature, even burning black powder, the finished product would be regulated and require paperwork with the feds and the associated fees to produce.
I hope somebody´s aware that these butstock cutouts look a lot like French Imperial Guard had Model 1812 Muskets to improve their aiming (opinions differed for the standard conscript line-battalions however) which had characteristic cutouts on the but stock. But more importantly is the timeframe: Belgium became independent from Holland in 1830, after a revolution broke out against the reintroduced Dutch Monarchy, and what happened is obviously the Dutch Army came to suppress the revolt. However, across the border the French were thinking ´hmm, losing Belgium means we´re finally rid of those annoying Protestant´s their industrial powerbase!´ so they started assembling an army of volunteers and started aiding Belgian Rebels. I suspect this rifle was part of that ´aid´, since they were definitely not going to supply first-rate guns of their own to a ragtag Army. In the end the situation escalated to the point the French Army intervened directly in Belgium, backing the Belgian Rebel Army, chopping the Dutch Army to pieces once and for all time (they haven´t been back since 1831 so, the Germans were a bit more tenacious however). Belgium had the industry to make firearms in big numbers, but it wasn´t until the reign of Leopold II that this small country got really big appetites. The size of the Belgian Army was increased to 500.000 by 1870-1880s, and Leopold II intended to invade Holland outright with this superior firepower and numbers, a plan France however would not back. It would however back an expedition and Belgian settlement of the Congo Delta in Central Africa... I can´t help but feel that that gun has a little more history attached to it than you might think, and it has drawn blood on multiple occasions.
Merckelbagh is a Flemish surname, just fyi.
This obturator funnily looks exactly the same as a bushing from the skateboard truck. I almost expected Ian to pull the skateboard bushing out of the pocket to replace the worn one.
It's interesting that the US essentially skipped past all of this needle/pinfire stuff and went straight from muzzleloaders to metallic cartridges.
A what a magnificent piece of work made for something ellaborate that has zero practical use.. :D It has to be thesis of it's own how in the blue fuck they didn't come up with the cartridge concept earlier before making these..
seconds ago! woo!
WOW just WOW ! :-)
Nickleback needle fire conversion
2:53 Seems like a very slow gun to operate, with that weird bolt action.
Really nice gun, I hope you can get your hands on a "Podewils Rifle" sometime, would love to see that gun on your table :) also a very cool conversion of a precussion rifle
I'd rather clean the B.A.R. than have to tear a needle rifle apart and clean all the fouling out of that action!
Being a converted muzzle loader, it looks like a loading rod rather than a cleaning rod. Or did they serve double duty as both?
Probably intended for cleaning or pushing out misfired rounds since no other provision for extraction.
Served double duty. That it is flared at the end strongly suggests it was used as a ramrod for loading the ball and powder before the conversion, but it could also be used for cleaning the rifle after firing. A lot of ramrods have a screw thread on the other end, for attaching primitive jags, scourers and bristle brushes. After conversion, as mentioned by Dor Aran, it could have been used for pushing unfired rounds back into the chamber for removal.
Close to first. Up early to go shear sheep.
Have a great day friend. Good luck with the sheep.
Shearing is caring.
Keep the dogs handy...
Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Any idea what the original rifle was? Looks like a Charleville
The waffle people are good at making weapons. I like it!
10:05
10:30
2 ANY RATES WITHIN 30 SECONDS!?!?!?!?!YESSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!
жалко не по Русский говорите а канал интересный я бы смотрел его но не понимаю ваш язык
next stage: convert this rifle into an rail-gun
Remember to put in a fresh needle and obturator before battle.
If it shot needles that would be scarier
Nothing makes my Sunday better than hearing the gospel of Gun Jesus. Amen!
Would it be possible to make a video about pp 19 bizon, not lots of videos about it on youtube
This is my friend simulator
Played too much Halo...
Beautiful rifle
"Needlefire only existed in a brief period of time"
Prussia had them from 1841-1873
please show me laser gun
I've been pronouncing Chassepot wrong all this time...
Weren't Needle guns all the rage once the Dreyse debutted? I heard most armies rushed to develop their own needleguns and deploy them in small scale. Most suffered the same shortcomings of the Dreyse, being the fragile needle and the quickly fouling chamber, but the major factor in their adoption was that armies had a ton of percussion cap rifles and there was no way to easily convert them to Needle firing. But the Needle rifle design certainly wasn't short lived. Percussion caps were invented in 1810-1820, the Dreyse in 1936 and the Boxer cartridge in 1866. Of these, the Dreyse innovation was the longest lasting and technically made the Percussion cap obsolete as much as the Boxer cartridge made paper cartridges obsolete. Furthermore, it took as much time for a military to adopt the first Dreyses as it took for the centerfire cartridge.
It takes a while for militaries to pick up new technologies because of budgetary limits. The french had already dumped a ton of resources on the Chassepot only for it to debut right in the year metallic centerfire cartridges made it obsolete. Took the french eight years to adopt the Centerfire cartridge with the Gras rifle in 1874, and they only done so once the Mauser 1871 proved itself the superior system.
These conversions (Well, not _Needlefire_ conversions - but you get what I mean) always make me giggle a little because they always wind up costing the person, factory or country developing them as much, if not more, than it would cost to tool up and develop entirely new rifles.
Amazing to think this was a peer (well chronologically speaking) of the Mauser 71.
Thank you , Ian .
Nice condition one.
What brevet?
Neat.
How come this didn’t become more popular? This seems like it is very useful and ahead of its time.
What an interesting rifle, and I'd have had no way of learning about it, or indeed other rare and interesting firearms, without Forgotten Weapons. Many thanks.
Strange.
Hey Ian, I recently picked up a professional ordinance carbon 15. I know you took a look at one a while back but if you are interested in shoot one I would gladly loan it to you.
É interessante a engenhosidade dessa arma... Quando penso que já vi tudo sobre armas antiga, cada vês mais me surpreendo com raridades como esta...
Neat
Howdy
The moment the bolt folded up... holy moley that took me off guard. Cool gun and video!
With the fireing pin being a needle wouldn’t you need to sharpen it over time?
Pretty interesting step along the path of firearms. Thanks Ian :)
I think it's loose because the black banding shrunk.
A very interesting gun. I could see this type of gun in a steam bunk story.
Interesting history on this rifle
Thanks Ian, where else can I learn about rubber obturators on YT?
Yes! I love all the kewl firearms from RIA 🤸