Hey Wheelies & Darkfriends! Thank you guys for the compliments on the intro. I started using my 7 year old as a "test audience" for them and he said this one gave him goosebumps and he had no idea what it's about. The reception makes me want to re-do all the intros for the earlier books.
For me who has read all series few times. i say that slog part is slow build up for end. All so after second read you can start understanding that slog books more try point out how messed up world is rather then looking specific character development. I somewhat understand Elene part a lot of that is for political "game of houses" thing that is not interesting for some.
For a first time reader, probably. As someone who has read the series multiple times, while I still understand why people find these books slower - they are - there's still so much information being dumped on you that I find them really interesting. You just don't see all that is revealed unless you have some more perspective than you could be expected to have when reading the series for the first time. Even a lot of people who say that they've finished the series several times don't seem to realize just how much subtleties that are consistently churned out! More so in these later books than the earlier ones, at least excluding the Sanderson books which regrettably (and understandably; Jordan was singular) don't quite reach as far or deep with their details. Materially speaking though, there definitely is less happening. If all you want are the story setpieces, then yeah these books are bound to be boring. If you are taken aback by the meticulous world building, then maybe not so much :)
Just a quick comment not really related to the Review.... I was just wondering if you were aware of the absolute pandemic of TH-cam channels with weird names uploading / pirating _Wheel of Time_ videos wholesale to fill up your channel. You, Daniel Greene, and Nae'blis seem to be the worst hit. I think your "Wheel of Time - Final Reading Schedule" has been re-uploaded about a dozen times by as many different channels by now! Normally, I am wary of going hard at people with Copyright Strikes, because of how much these things have been abused in the past, but this is becoming a real problem, so I just thought I'd let you know so you might look into it at some point.
That's one of the reasons I gave up on the series around this book... The problems with the pacing and focus on some characters just killed my interest.
I agree so much. The book kept focusing on the cleansing but rarely showed male channelers PoV. It was alright but definitely my least favorite so far.
Agreed that book 8 was lower in my ranking than book 10. But... hot take, I liked book 9 better than book 7. Book 7 had an incredible ending but I struggled through that one more than 9. I'm READY for book 11 now. I'm ready to start loving reading this series again
I'm about 65% through KoD and it's pretty dang good. Probably my favorite since Shadow Rising...if you cut out the 5 consecutive Elayne chapters, ha ha
Man, it's hard for me to come to a conclusion on book 7 and 9. Book 7 was very meh and the final act was pretty good. However, Book 9 was brain damagingly boring in the first half, then when Mat and Rand took more of the forefront, it got a lot better. So I really don't know. I'm on book 10 now and it definitely is the worst of the bunch
Before Jordan died he spent his last months focusing on setting things up so someone else would have the tools to finish it. I believe at one point he spent about 4 hours dictating how the remainder of the story should go to his wife and others close to the project. He really put his blood sweat and tears into this epic. And Harriet really did a great job selecting his successor.
My mother and I cried the day Jordan died. We thought we wouldn't know what happened at the end. And we were sad for him not being able to finish his life's work. I wish he could see the series now.
I sobbed. On and off for a while. The books had meant so much to me for so long. I was and am so thankful that Harriett picked Sanderson to finish it. He did a beautiful job.
Anyone that cares about Perrin knows how important that scene is where he leaves the axe in the woods. It's a pivotal moment in his character development. Perrin is really great for the rest of the series. I agree about the White Tower chapters as well, it only gets better! Great review once again, I really enjoy the discussion.
@@Sealwithwificonnection chapter 27 I believe. I wouldn't recommend skipping entire chapters by the way. Just skim read if you wanna get through it quickly.
Sanderson worked off of Jordan's notes and outlines and Jordan had already written chunks of the last three books before he passed. So even though Sanderson finished them they still very much feel like Wot books for the most part. I think you'll enjoy them.
My whole thing about Elayne and vying for the throne: Rand is a literal emperor at this point, and by right of conquest, much less marriage, he can grant the throne of Andor to whoever TF he wants, and too bad to all you other nobles. You raise a ruckus, ok now you're a commoner. Someone should have pointed out to Elayne, that wasting time on her pride is hurting the overall situation and it was time to suck it up and accept that she was the rightful queen ANYWAY, and all she had to do was leverage her position as the recognized ruler by the emperor who happened to also technically be her husband. That's what a competent ruler/leader would have done.
Elayne ain't competent, nor reasonable. I know two women that are as beautiful as Elayne is described, and their life is the same entitled train wreck that everyone around them ends up making up for it, just like with Elayne. Everything is given, everything is forgiven, etc, etc.. In that regard, Elayne feels really believable to me. Still, awful person, even worse POV for it to be given so much screen time.
@@coyote271280 sadly, it's a phenomenon with a reasonable scientific explanation. People (usually beautiful young girls because, obviously) who don't have to struggle for anything never develop their character or skills. They don't have to... until what gives them their easy life is taken away, as it always is, and then they have nothing. People do them no favors by letting them skate in early life.
The Knife of Dreams is definitely Robert Jordan's swan song. It was also intended to be the penultimate book in Wheel of Time - Sanderson ended up having to split Memory of Light into three books just based on Jordan's notes, and there doesn't appear to be any real padding in each of the 700ish pages of the Sanderson trilogy. I also like Crossroads of Twilight better than Path of Daggers - and I think a large part of that comes from the Mat and Tuon subplot. Not only is it a lot better than any of the other romances (except for maybe Rand and Min), but we don't even get Mat in Path of Daggers.
I've heard mixed stories. I've heard Sanderson went through the notes and said "no way," but I've also heard the publisher pushed it to be multiple books.
@@mikesbookreviews Sanderson said it was his decision. There's a blog post about it. If I remember correctly he essentially apologized to the fans and explained that he wouldn't be making anymore money by adding books to avoid comments about it being a cash grab. It was just too much that still needed to happen to make the ending mean anything.
Daniel greene had an interview with Brandon and he confirmed that the publisher would not let him publish that last 3 books as 1 book… also, it really would have been too big. It needs to be able to fit inna school bag at least 😂
Currently doing a Egwene/white tower only read thru. It really is great once you're clear on who everyone is and understand the factions. Egwene truely does an awesome job navigating the rebels, black ajah, helma's "headaches". I truely think a lot of people missed the greatness in this section of the story because they can't keep track of everyone.
Fair review. I think the moment Perrin tosses his ax is one of the more epic moments in the series. Perrin has crossed a line he never would have believed he was capable of doing. The fact that it gains him nothing makes it even more chilling. CoT gets a bad rap and it at least partially deserves it. Remember we were waiting multiple years between books at this point as well. To get this stinker, by WoT standards, then have to wait another two for Knife of Dreams and it's easy to see why it's so hated. Add in a healthy dose of "yes, cleansing Saidin was huge, but can we move on" and you get the most hated book in the series. Enjoy the rest. Hope you love it. You waited to long for New Spring imho. Getting an inside view of why Moraine is the way she is works best right after her death. Still, better than waiting til you finished the main series.
Totally agree. The two year wait for this book, followed by two more years for KoD, just highlighted how little happened in Crossroads. For New Spring, I always advise new readers to read it after Fires of Heaven. I think that's when it has the greatest impact.
Yeah, it was so annoying that after that epic climax in Winter's Heart and the WORLD CHANGING implications of cleaning Saidin, and then you get to the next book and everyone's like "oh, whatever." So dumb. And then two more years of waiting for the next book. It was such a let down when I got to the end and I was like "That's it? Really?"
Been going back through the series listening to the audio books this time around while I’m at work. This series is so nice the 2nd time thru and the audio book definitely gives it a bit more life. Stumbled upon your reviews and I must say I really enjoy them!
I enjoy these epic intros, haha! I am so glad you decided to read A New Spring before Knife of Dreams. So glad. Egwene...The next book is my favorite point of her story. It's where everything that came before finally starts to make sense/matter. (also yes, the headaches are important) I think that moment was huge for Perrin. It's the moment he decides what kind of man he is going to be. I think he is the most impacted by leaving TTR. Mat always had an adventurer's soul, Rand's soul is TDR and pulling him towards the last battle, but Perrin just wanted to be a Blacksmith. He thought he knew what kind of man he was, and then his family was ripped away from him. I think half of his emo shit is due to him not knowing how to deal with everything that's happened. I think the entire story only spans 2.5 years? It's so much in so little a time, especially for someone as methodical and thoughtful as Perrin. He's the human equivalent of an Ogier, lol. But in that moment, he chose. Whatever comes next, he chose who he is. He only gets better from here!
Right on in regards to "he decides what kind of man he is going to be." It's huge. He's past that point where he could go completely dark and never come back and he chooses not to. Just an awesome, awesome scene.
I have nothing constructive to say about WoT, but did want to take a moment to compliment you on the quality of your review. Great intro (almost made me want to read the book). In this video and your recent critique of Name of the Wind you seem to be developing a distinctive tone and outlook that is unique to your channel. I like contrarian Mike. Glad you found things to like in this novel.
Thanks for saying so. I always try to keep getting better. I certainly don't try and take a contrarian opinion, as I love many popular things, but I'll also never BS about opinions.
I watched this review pretty much right after finishing the book and when you went over what happened in the prologue I didn’t remember like half of that stuff 😭
Just finished my first complete reread from start to finish since the publication and my initial read of AMOL. I MADE myself slowdown and enjoy the story this time through. There is so much nuance that Jordan tucked away in the books. Many of the things that make the initial read so maddening make revisiting this world so rewarding. Buckle up and enjoy the downhill slalom to the finish! Excited to get your reaction to the change in tone when Sanderson takes over. It can be a bit jarring especially with Mat. That being said I love Sanderson's version of Mat so much. His POV's were the only ones that had me laughing out loud. :-D
I was at my local barns and Nobel picking up knife of dreams when I learned that Jorden died. I was in high school at the time. I’m just glad nobody else has to go into KofD thinking it was the last piece of the story you get.
Great reviews my friend. Robert Jordan was quoted as saying when he found out he was passing away that he was concentrating on the ending of his story. Some things were non-negotiable and he ended up writing about 20 % to 30% of the last books himself. He wrote the main points and Sanderson filled in the gaps. Keep up the great reviews.
Am unashamed Superfan! Have read the ENTIRE series 10 times? in last 5 yrs. (speed reader) And Yes, since I retired. Found you a few months ago and your honest take on the books delights me greatly. Reading & enjoying fantasy is supposed to be FUN, after all. Your reviews are insightful, food for thought, and GREAT FUN! You have become my favorite WOT content commentator. Thanks!!!
I think the prologue was a novella. If I remember right Tor was releasing those as free ebooks to tease people between books at this point of the series. That's why they feel tacked on to the books.
Yeah they did, it was a bit of an appeasement to fans who were waiting between each book, they did it a ew times. It was a good idea at the time to keep us interested & still hooked. It was touch going when reading as each book came out, it always seemed a lot longer between books. Also once the books came out I’d read them within a few days then be bummed o thinking how many years will I now have to wait for the next in the series. So can you imagine how disappointed I was when some characters were left out of a book, or nothing much happens during the book, that’s why the slog so much worse
Your intro to this video is so good I hope they get you involved in the TV series! Perrin is also one of my favourite characters - always has been. I am happy to say that I could really not choose a favourite among the big three by the end of the series. A New Spring will give you a bit more on Lan's background and the Malkieri, which sets you up nicely for the rest of the series...
Really enjoy your book reviews. I feel very much the same way, with the caveat that you appreciate more of the slog in hindsight once you see how it pays off. I am very excited to hear your take on the final four, they are so much fun! Especially towers at midnight!!
I just subscribed to your channel after seeing your videos for months and never clicking on them. I have been made a believer!! Keep up the good work my friend
By this point my perspective had changed and I was looking at all 14 books as one big story, so I was alright with a book of what felt like important set-up rather than an exciting ride on its own (although obviously i wouldnt have minded more of the latter!). I think its fine when youre reading the books one after another. I can totally see why that wouldn't be the case if you'd been waiting for this to come out and had another long wait before the next book though, or maybe if you are reading the series with gaps.
As much as I'm disappointed that you're not heading straight into Knife of Dreams (I feel like Egwene really grows into being a leader and if you'll allow me two non-spoiler spoilers, "lion on the high plains" and the golden crane are two of my favorite moments), I think New Spring is also great as well, though it's not as much for how it stands as a standalone work, but for the color it adds to Moiraine and Lan's stories, especially when you (maybe? eventually?) go back and reread the first few books
Golden Crane is one of my absolute favorite part of the series, the epitome of what makes high fantasy great. I still get goosebumps, even tears on re-reads.
Yes, the epic long conclusion to the Wheel of Tine...slog. On to greener pastures for the Emonds Field five. Can't wait to hear what you have to say, good and bad. Really enjoying the journey again through someone else's eyes. Read this solo. Even with the bad books the wheel weaves as the wheel wills on our quest so I embrace the bad. It makes the good shine that brighter.
@@MrBdl32 Thanks I appreciate that. In all honesty this series wouldn't be as good without it's numerous flaws, and they are certainly flaws. We wheelies don't show away from that.
Crossroads of Twilight was the only book in this series that was slow to me, I did not mind the Path of Daggers or any of the other " slog books". I can't wait to hear your thought on Knife of Dreams.
Egwene and Leane actually succeed in blocking the harbor by turning the chains to cuendillar and fusing them together(I just finished the book, I'm not actually certain that's what happened). Also, is Moraine gonna come back in the next book or what?. Really the only thing that happened in this book is a few things with Egewene amd the cliffhanger at the end. Halima is Aran'gar aka Balthamael and they can channel saidin, this is stated in a previous book. So it's pretty clear that they are the ones causing the headaches and the "healing" using saidin. Also, Halima is the one who is killing certain Aes Sedai in the rebel camp. Also I'm pretty sure that Shaidar Haran is the emoboiement of the dark one. Otherwise he would've been destroyed by the dark one for impersonating him and he's just way too powerful.
The slog is tough the first read. Sets up soooo much, though, this series gets better and better every reread. My first read I think I got through book 7 and stopped... for years, then went back and started over and blew threw all books and realized how much I'd missed. Afterwards I listened to the great Micheal Kramer and Kate Reading audiobooks...a must. Now to start another reread.
Mike's Book Reviews the foreshadowing is a masterwork. The brilliance of it all is dazzling. The series requires a minimum of 2 read throughs. For a 3rd go through the audio books are epic.
Yeah, leaving the axe behind was an awesome moment for me, and is my SECOND favorite Perrin moment. The first is coming. Book 13 or something, I think.
I heard one of the guys on the black tower podcast say that rather than a slog it should be called the build. I think that has merit but I also agree with you that 3 books could’ve been edited down to 1. I’m almost done with Towers of Midnight on my first read through and I just got A Memory of Light from the Library. I almost don’t want it to end...
I think the slog reads differently now than it did when a person was waiting 3 years. Originally RJ said the series was close to ending in a couple of books so this was definitely not the book that met original readers expectations, following Winter's Heart climax.
Btw I don't recall if you mentioned it in your review of Path of Daggers (gonna go back and watch it) but one of my favorite moments from that was when Rand used Callandor against the Seanchan and obliterated them with lightning saying "I AM the storm!" And he also was out of control with the power accidentally killing his own troops, and Bashere had to knock him down to stop him. Another part of the series that gave me chills I remember rereading it a few times
@@mikesbookreviews haha I saw those comments, no worries dude I've missed plenty of key moments in books before it happens. I like how it follows the prophecy, whoever draws the sword will follow him or something like that, the asha'man being the people who follow Rand. I really like the black tower stuff that happens in the last few books, I think you'll dig it
I agree with you, 100% about the cleansing. I think that's the biggest problem with CoT, that the reader knows what everyone's wondering about. I found 8 the worst, then 10. I really enjoyed 7 and 9. Thanks for your reviews, it's delightful to see someone else experience this for the first time. Reminds me of when I experienced it the first time!
Getting ready to read knife of dreams, I’ve been reading one wheel of Time book every four months. So I’m going back and watching all the reviews and read the wikis of book 10 to remind myself where the story is. As always Mike, love the video.
Just finished this book yesterday & I too expecting a lot worse... I found myself enjoying myself. I was surprised that for once I ended a book not thinking negatively about Cadsuane. Because last books slam made me go crazy. Just wanted to thank you for your great content & taking me on this journey with you. FYI With work sch. I've been listening to last 3 books. And Loving them. After First Law audio book I really found a love for Audible
Missed the premier by a half hour lol! Another good one. Looking forward to seeing your reactions for some of the epic stuff that happens toward the end books.
I would really like to go through the comments for your videos, as a first time reader. But, there are some people who either don’t care about giving spoilers for books as yet unread, or they are unaware when they are doing it. I’m enjoying the videos anyway. Well done!
I believe Shaidar Haran means "Right Hand of the Dark", or Shadow Hand literally. I have always thought of it as a Trinity-type correlation, or like a physical manifestation of a part of the Dark One, with a new identity, a-la Jesus the Son vs. God the Father.
There is some pretty dark shit that happens in the next book (I think, could be the one after), Rand was one of the scariest characters for me I love his entire development through the series. Super hard to pick a favorite between the three lads from Emond's Field by the end of the series, they are all so different. One minute Perrin is my fave then it's definitely Mat then it's Rand haha. Can't wait to see your reaction to the final book it's pretty amazing. So glad I found your channel I'm really enjoying your work👌
I usually recommend reading New Spring either right after Fires of Heaven or just before Towers of Midnight. The emotional impact is different in either spot but the emotional lift is equally incredible.
Making my way through the Wheel of Time (funny thing, I've read the first 6 books 10 years ago, then life happened and reading was on the back burner for a decade), but I came back to Fantasy in November of last year, running into Crown of Swords and close to the slog. Just finished Crossroads of Twilight and completely agree with your take that it wasn't as bad as advertised. Also agree that Path of Daggers was the toughest read of the story so far. The 4 books (7-10) were like a homecoming to the story and I guess I didn't mind less action that much, but I'm so hyped for the last 4 books. I'm so saddened that today I'll be starting the last Robert Jordan solo entry (Knife of Dreams) so I'm definitely feeling what you echoed in the last part of the video, but it is what it is, and since my passion for fantasy and sci fi is reborn now, Sanderson will be what I'm turning to after I'd finished WoT, so I don't mind seeing what him and Jordan were able to put together for the end of these series. Anyway, big shoutout to you man, I've really enjoyed each of your videos (WoT or otherwise) and I can't wait to get into some of the books you've recommended (wink wink, Joe Abercrombie). For the wheelies fans out there, so I've not yet started Knife of Dreams (About to, today) and I've a theory on something Mike mentioned in the video regarding Halima. I remember back in Winter's heart I think it was, somebody killed one of Egwene's maids and I think I remember some stuff about "being a man before", so I'm guessing it's Halima who got the maid and she's also the one who ended the 2 Aes Sedai at end of book 10, who were murdered using Saidin. Can't wait to find out whether or not I was right. Let's see if the hype for the last 4 books is warranted, then!
I just finished this book, now starting the prequel. For me this one was the hardest one to get through at times. 7,8 and 9 i had expexted worse and ended up enjoying them all with some critisisms ofcourse. Conclusion up until now Aes Sedai think they know everything but really know jack shit.
I'm way back in book 6 right now (of my first reread in over a decade) so I don't always remember what happened in which book, so I am hesitant to say things until you mention it that way I know you have read the moment in question. But yeah Perrin's moment with his axe was probably the best moment and gets him moving which is nice. I seem to remember still feeling burned out on his whole story arc though even after this so it will be interesting to see what your take is on it. As far as SLOG expectations go, I thought you might come out of it thinking it was better than you'd heard. Most of us waited a long time to get our hands on that book so when we read it there was a huge let down knowing the next one wouldn't be out for another few years and that is probably why a lot of folks gave up at that point. Also, this reminds me of when someone tells me a movie sucks and lowers my expectations down to zero, then I watch it and find it entertaining. Anyway, happy reading!
The reason for the super long prologues is because they were released before the books. Towards the end it was taking longer for them to release a new book. The massive prologues were released for free on the Tor website months before the books to hold people over until the books were published.
@@mikesbookreviews I love KOD. But I honestly can't even remember the slog. I've been through the books about 15 or more times now and after reading it more than once you start to know why these slow parts are important. That's from a history buff than can inhumanely follow all the characters the first time through. Enjoy the rest of the books. P.S. I won a ticket to 2021 Jordan con next year last night and am just super hyped!
Personally I'm glad this internet community didn't exist when I was reading these books. I liked every book in the series, albeit some more than others, but I never ended any book with a dislike for it. I still re-read every book in preparation for the publication of the next. I would hate to try getting into a series with everyone unable to stop telling me what to hate or love about it.
I feel like the forsaken could be a true menace if they could work together, but even during the cleansing of saidin they worry more about gaining advantage on each other than actually fighting rand
28:51 I think with the way the rest of the series is written, condensing them _that_ much would likely feel off, but I’ll be quite surprised if the TV show sticks with the rumored “two books per season” format here. Once you‘re at a place where there need to be pacing changes anyway, you’re right - there’s a lot stuff in books 9 & 10 that could get reduced to a couple off-hand remarks or cut altogether.
Your reviews are awesome! This book was such a chore for me to get through bc it felt like nothing but tower politics until the last 3ish chapters. I understand it's setting up the final books, but it felt like this one could have been half the length and achieve the same. All the filler with Elayne and Egwene never making up their minds just made me care less about those 2 supergirls. Then the final chapter? Ugh so stupid for someone so important. The Perrin development was a breath of fresh air compared to the lovesick pining puppy of the last several books.
I don't know when the true nature of Shaidar Haran is revealed so I'll try not to spoil it but it gets clearer later, for now, think of him as a super Myrddraal. His name is also in the old Tongue and explains his function further.
I actually did like this one. Maybe it was the amazing audiobook. Can't wait to get to the final books. Thanks for the video, Mike. I always check them out when I finish one book. Greetings from Spain!
I mostly agree with you. Im not a fan of grimdark so that perrin scene with the ax really disturbed me, and i hated how anticlimactic the last bit with mat was ( which is the point where i wanted to throw the book, for technical reasons). Which is why this one is my least favorite. But yeah i would still give it 3 of 5 on your scale too and i would never tell a wheellie to wiki the plot instead of reading it. Thats a little extreme. I am excited to see your reaction to New Spring. I enjoyed the dynamic between Lan and Moirane in that one
@@mikesbookreviews That is basically what I tell everyone I talk to about the slog. I think his editing team let him get away with too much. And I get it--I'm a writer and sometimes you just write a scene(s) that you just fall in love with. It becomes precious and you cant get rid of it. But thats why editing is so so important. Sometimes those beloved scenes just make the plot suffer and you have to trim
I think you might be missing part of the point of how the forsaken are written. To me Jordan was trying to make it that the legends and stories surrounding the forsaken made them seem larger than life.. But In actuality they weren't that much stronger. Think to when nynaeve faces moghedian and realizes shes stronger. (I hope this already happened and I'm not spoiling anything. I don't remember which book it happened in) I guess what I'm saying is that Jordan writing them this way is to prove that they are still more human than the big baddies that the stories tell about them. Even if they are fairly crafty in their own ways.
I've gotten a lot of pushback about my Forsaken opinions and I do get what Jordan was trying to do, I just feel like they become more cartoonish with each book.
I liked this book. I found there were several character defining moments that get addressed later. Could have been condensed to action. But was still enjoyable.
I think that Elayne's political maneuverings will actually work really well for television--especially with GoT still kind of being the gold standard for fantasy TV (even though the unpopularity of the last season has tarnished its reputation a bit). They'll have to fix the pacing, but pacing is the whole problem with books 7-10, anyway. One thing about Elayne's chapters in this period is that they serve to catch us up on a lot of little subplots. The actual action for entire chapters could be summarized as, "Elayne walked down a hallway and nodded to some people she knew." But, at this point, Caemlyn is host to people from all kinds of subplots. The Kin are there, the Sea Folk are there, there are a number of Aes Sedai factions represented, there are Seanchan prisoners... Elayne's internal monologue lets us know what's happening with all of those minor characters, even as she herself doesn't do anything much at all. This may not be the *most* satisfying way to deal with the story, but it also isn't the worst way to do it. For example, devoting whole chapters to all of those little subplots would have been excruciating.
I've skimmed the past 80 pages and closed the book on page 421 as I'mcurrently listeningto this video. I started the series after having both my hips replaced at age 35... I'm only sticking with it from the hope of a solid ending. This book definitely feels like a cliff notes type book. Love the primary characters, but there's so much secondary BS that distracts from the narrative. From this and a search I'm going to skim up til the chapters A Mark and What Must Be Done (21 & 27). My fiance and I read a lot of fantasy series together. This is the one where I told her to read the first book and watch the show when it comes out. I feel like there's enough retrospective in 2020 that a team of solid adapters write a solid 8 seasons of 12 episode television from the broad strokes that Jordan (and Sanderson developed).
This was the first book I waited for, and that probably explains my feelings about it. So many storylines feel like they started and ended at the same place, or the same place plus a cliffhanger. And by now we knew about Jordan's health, so the ending was in question. I'll add that while 11 was a breath of fresh air after 10, I wouldn't count it as top 5 in the series. Though to be fair I've read Sanderson's 3, and I probably *would* count all three of those as top 5. Definitely at least 2 of them. Also, while you're already "late" on reading New Spring (most people stick it after 5), I'd almost push it to after 11 at this point, just to "feel" that gap we had between Jordan's death and Sanderson finishing 12.
Shaidar Haran is "the Hand of the Dark One" and while it's never explored too deeply, as far as the Forsaken are concerned he IS the Great Lord, he's the physical avatar of the Dark One and acts and speaks with his full authority. To disobey Shaidar Haran is to disobey the Great Lord. I think the best comparison is with the biblical Metatron, who is not God but is the Word of God. Shaidar and the Myrdraal in general are super interesting, and I'm sad that Shaidars connection to the Dark One is never more deeply explored.
Just discovered your videos last night and have now caught up on your Wheel of Time reviews. Double plus good. Thank you for the balanced approach to "the slog". Perrin's plot line is the worst during these books. I always get hung up on that plot during re-reads. If you're interested I have many thoughts on Why Faile Is Not As Bad As She Seems, but will refrain unless people care. I like the idea that this should have come before Winter's Heart. I've often thought about cutting up the chapters and rearranging them in an order that makes more sense. It often felt like Jordan was trying to avoid the Person Doesn't Appear In This Book again and instead just messed up the timeline a bit. If it helps going into the Sanderson books they are listed as co-authors for a good reason and not just to honor his memory. Jordan knew he was dying and dedicated a lot of the time he had left to getting as much done on the series as possible. There is still a lot of stuff in the last three books that Jordan wrote including the final chapter of A Memory of Light. Some books had more Jordan material than others, but they all have some. Sanderson had an ongoing series on his blog about his process, starting with his pre-writing re-read and through to the end. It's really interesting, covers a lot of what he thought about at the time, what he felt he didn't get right and what he thought he did. I haven't looked at them in a bit, but they should all still have the appropriate spoiler warnings. He also liked to point out the bits that Jordan wrote that people particularly liked.
That's one heck of a marathon. Glad you enjoyed it. I definitely want to get that across that I'm not one of those saying Sanderson will "fix" the problems.
@@mikesbookreviews You've made it clear that there's no "fixing" or a need to do so. You just seemed a bit sad that Knife of Dreams was the last book by Jordan and I wanted you to know that his writing is all throughout the final 3 books.
I'm not sure that I ever considered 7-10 a "slog" as such but as I've mentioned before, Winter's Heart was where things grew slow enough for me that I stopped until the series was finished, so I don't totally disagree with that idea, either. I've never really felt Crossroads to be a nadir in that span but it is one that, even in rereads I find myself scanning certain passages quickly, eager to get on to Knife of Dreams. The whole Faile-captive arc is one of the reasons these aren't my favorites. I did love Perrin's take one how-to-interrogate-an-Aiel, though. Knife of Dreams--looking forward to hearing your take on that one!
I'm soooooo glad (thank you God) that I stopped reading this series at book 3.5, but now get to efficiently finish by my entertaining boy Mike posting these reviews
I always felt like 9, 10, 11 should have been somehow combined into 2 books. Everything in book 10 is either wrap up from book 9 or set up for book 11. It doesn't really go anywhere on its own. 10 is substantially less crappy if you read it immediately back to back with 11 though.
I felt like about 4 of those books (it's been a while since I read so I forget which) could have been summarized with Book 1- Matt continues to.... Book 2 Perrin Continues to... Book 3 Rand continues to... and so on. With a big battle at the end of one of them that you should read. The rest was slog city for about 2000 pages there. At least it does get better at some point.
Glad you didn't end up hating the book! And I agree on the Perrin moment, and I think its generally held to be the high point of the book. For me, I can't really get over how pissed I was when reading this book when it was published. The series had been slowing down for several books, but then in the previous one he pulled off this amazing world-changing ending with the source being cleansed. I eagerly waited for Crossroads of Twilight to come out, when I would get to find out what the consequences of that was. Only I didn't because he decided to just run this book in parallel to it... I can still remember reading though it, waiting for him to cut the crap and get to some post-cleansing events, and slowly realising it just wasn't going to happen.
At the time I thought of shaidar haran as the dark ones avatar, kind of his proxy to reach further into the world. As the seals are breaking his ability to touch the world is greater but he can’t actually get out so maybe a partial essence of him has manifested as this strange myddraraal
I just finished this one earlier today and agree with your take completely. I really was dreading it but I finished it in just a few days, which isn’t a normal speed for me. Path of Daggers is still the weakest for me. Thanks for doing these. I watch your reviews as soon as I finish each book for a decompression. Cheers!
I'm going to try to read CoT with new eyes. It's the only one that I had a grudge with. After WH I was expecting all hell to break loose. I was living in China when it came out. Scoured the country to find a copy. Flew to Korea, Japan always too late. Finally found a copy in Thailand my last day of vacation. Aaand well it was not what I had built it up to be
Hey Wheelies & Darkfriends! Thank you guys for the compliments on the intro. I started using my 7 year old as a "test audience" for them and he said this one gave him goosebumps and he had no idea what it's about. The reception makes me want to re-do all the intros for the earlier books.
Knife of Dreams finally answers more questions than it asks, and ends more stories than it starts. Enjoy.
For me who has read all series few times. i say that slog part is slow build up for end. All so after second read you can start understanding that slog books more try point out how messed up world is rather then looking specific character development.
I somewhat understand Elene part a lot of that is for political "game of houses" thing that is not interesting for some.
For a first time reader, probably. As someone who has read the series multiple times, while I still understand why people find these books slower - they are - there's still so much information being dumped on you that I find them really interesting. You just don't see all that is revealed unless you have some more perspective than you could be expected to have when reading the series for the first time. Even a lot of people who say that they've finished the series several times don't seem to realize just how much subtleties that are consistently churned out! More so in these later books than the earlier ones, at least excluding the Sanderson books which regrettably (and understandably; Jordan was singular) don't quite reach as far or deep with their details.
Materially speaking though, there definitely is less happening. If all you want are the story setpieces, then yeah these books are bound to be boring. If you are taken aback by the meticulous world building, then maybe not so much :)
Just a quick comment not really related to the Review....
I was just wondering if you were aware of the absolute pandemic of TH-cam channels with weird names uploading / pirating _Wheel of Time_ videos wholesale to fill up your channel. You, Daniel Greene, and Nae'blis seem to be the worst hit. I think your "Wheel of Time - Final Reading Schedule" has been re-uploaded about a dozen times by as many different channels by now!
Normally, I am wary of going hard at people with Copyright Strikes, because of how much these things have been abused in the past, but this is becoming a real problem, so I just thought I'd let you know so you might look into it at some point.
@@JamesI88 That's exactly what I said in my (currently unreleased) KoD wishlist I recorded today.
I wish Jordan had given us more Logain and less Elayne.
70% of the Elayne story should have been exchanged for the Black Tower, Logain, and Taim.
Thom, Loial, Lan, Logain, Egwene, Nynaeve, etc. would all have been better focus points than Elayne for me.
That's one of the reasons I gave up on the series around this book... The problems with the pacing and focus on some characters just killed my interest.
I agree so much. The book kept focusing on the cleansing but rarely showed male channelers PoV. It was alright but definitely my least favorite so far.
@@brhettdavis7061 This book was a massive slog, but book 11+ are all absolutely amazing and make all the slog so worth it.
Agreed that book 8 was lower in my ranking than book 10. But... hot take, I liked book 9 better than book 7. Book 7 had an incredible ending but I struggled through that one more than 9. I'm READY for book 11 now. I'm ready to start loving reading this series again
I'm about 65% through KoD and it's pretty dang good. Probably my favorite since Shadow Rising...if you cut out the 5 consecutive Elayne chapters, ha ha
Exactly my Opinion. I actually enjoyed COT then POD
I'll be honest for some reason I liked book 8. 10 made me want to quit the series
Man, it's hard for me to come to a conclusion on book 7 and 9. Book 7 was very meh and the final act was pretty good. However, Book 9 was brain damagingly boring in the first half, then when Mat and Rand took more of the forefront, it got a lot better.
So I really don't know. I'm on book 10 now and it definitely is the worst of the bunch
For me Rand`s chapters made the difference in book 8, That Callandor moment was amazing at least for me.
Before Jordan died he spent his last months focusing on setting things up so someone else would have the tools to finish it. I believe at one point he spent about 4 hours dictating how the remainder of the story should go to his wife and others close to the project. He really put his blood sweat and tears into this epic. And Harriet really did a great job selecting his successor.
I've heard the stories about him writing and making changes up until his final days. That's commitment.
My mother and I cried the day Jordan died. We thought we wouldn't know what happened at the end. And we were sad for him not being able to finish his life's work. I wish he could see the series now.
I don't believe it could have worked out better outside of him surviving until the end.
@@mikesbookreviews agreed!
I sobbed. On and off for a while. The books had meant so much to me for so long. I was and am so thankful that Harriett picked Sanderson to finish it. He did a beautiful job.
Haven’t even got to the review yet, but your intro was more epic than CoT
Ha ha thank you.
That was a great opener
Throwing away the Axe was a huge moment for Perrin. Great scene.
Just fantastic.
I would have read a whole serie about Perrin, Elias and the BrotherWolves, the Tinkers, Berelain.
Just no Faile.
In my opinion that should have been the scene the reintroduced Elyas into the series. Bringing him back in WH was an underwhelming let-down
Totally agreed @@brodymercer8166
Anyone that cares about Perrin knows how important that scene is where he leaves the axe in the woods. It's a pivotal moment in his character development. Perrin is really great for the rest of the series. I agree about the White Tower chapters as well, it only gets better!
Great review once again, I really enjoy the discussion.
This is what I want to hear. Perrin making a comeback is my lifeblood.
Which chapter is that? I'm skipping a lot of chapters in book 10 and wanna be sure not to miss this one
@@Sealwithwificonnection chapter 27 I believe. I wouldn't recommend skipping entire chapters by the way. Just skim read if you wanna get through it quickly.
17:20 Haran is there to punish Mesaana for not showing up to battle Rand while the cleansing was taking place
I loved the So Habor descriptions, not so much the ghosts but the dirt and the smell and the people. Very vibey.
Your quote intros are the best.
Thanks! I try.
Sanderson worked off of Jordan's notes and outlines and Jordan had already written chunks of the last three books before he passed. So even though Sanderson finished them they still very much feel like Wot books for the most part. I think you'll enjoy them.
I don't see any way that I wouldn't.
My whole thing about Elayne and vying for the throne: Rand is a literal emperor at this point, and by right of conquest, much less marriage, he can grant the throne of Andor to whoever TF he wants, and too bad to all you other nobles. You raise a ruckus, ok now you're a commoner. Someone should have pointed out to Elayne, that wasting time on her pride is hurting the overall situation and it was time to suck it up and accept that she was the rightful queen ANYWAY, and all she had to do was leverage her position as the recognized ruler by the emperor who happened to also technically be her husband. That's what a competent ruler/leader would have done.
Elayne ain't competent, nor reasonable.
I know two women that are as beautiful as Elayne is described, and their life is the same entitled train wreck that everyone around them ends up making up for it, just like with Elayne. Everything is given, everything is forgiven, etc, etc..
In that regard, Elayne feels really believable to me. Still, awful person, even worse POV for it to be given so much screen time.
@@coyote271280 sadly, it's a phenomenon with a reasonable scientific explanation. People (usually beautiful young girls because, obviously) who don't have to struggle for anything never develop their character or skills. They don't have to... until what gives them their easy life is taken away, as it always is, and then they have nothing. People do them no favors by letting them skate in early life.
Right, like if her concern was people would rebel against her after the Last Battle...just fight them then. It's not that complicated.
Okay I DIED at the Forsaken slipping on a banana peel 😂
Heh. Tell me it isn't accurate.
Mike's Book Reviews pretty accurate lol
The Knife of Dreams is definitely Robert Jordan's swan song. It was also intended to be the penultimate book in Wheel of Time - Sanderson ended up having to split Memory of Light into three books just based on Jordan's notes, and there doesn't appear to be any real padding in each of the 700ish pages of the Sanderson trilogy.
I also like Crossroads of Twilight better than Path of Daggers - and I think a large part of that comes from the Mat and Tuon subplot. Not only is it a lot better than any of the other romances (except for maybe Rand and Min), but we don't even get Mat in Path of Daggers.
I've heard mixed stories. I've heard Sanderson went through the notes and said "no way," but I've also heard the publisher pushed it to be multiple books.
@@mikesbookreviews Sanderson said it was his decision. There's a blog post about it. If I remember correctly he essentially apologized to the fans and explained that he wouldn't be making anymore money by adding books to avoid comments about it being a cash grab. It was just too much that still needed to happen to make the ending mean anything.
There was something about the book would be over 2000 pages if it was published as one and they couldn't do that
Daniel greene had an interview with Brandon and he confirmed that the publisher would not let him publish that last 3 books as 1 book… also, it really would have been too big. It needs to be able to fit inna school bag at least 😂
Knife of Dreams is an A-list book. Don’t stop. Even the prologue is UNBELIEVABLE.
Keep going!!!!
The prologue was legit. I'm on chapter 3 right now.
@@mikesbookreviews Yes, The epilogue of KOS and then all Lans parts in TOM is amazing.
Currently doing a Egwene/white tower only read thru. It really is great once you're clear on who everyone is and understand the factions. Egwene truely does an awesome job navigating the rebels, black ajah, helma's "headaches". I truely think a lot of people missed the greatness in this section of the story because they can't keep track of everyone.
This is an interesting method.
She is such a badass.
I could go for a reread where i skip everything about Faile’s kidnapping and everything with Elayne trying to become queen.
“I’m over the Nine Moons” just got you a subscribe, my friend!
Thanks. I thought it was appropriate.
Fair review. I think the moment Perrin tosses his ax is one of the more epic moments in the series. Perrin has crossed a line he never would have believed he was capable of doing. The fact that it gains him nothing makes it even more chilling. CoT gets a bad rap and it at least partially deserves it. Remember we were waiting multiple years between books at this point as well. To get this stinker, by WoT standards, then have to wait another two for Knife of Dreams and it's easy to see why it's so hated. Add in a healthy dose of "yes, cleansing Saidin was huge, but can we move on" and you get the most hated book in the series.
Enjoy the rest. Hope you love it. You waited to long for New Spring imho. Getting an inside view of why Moraine is the way she is works best right after her death. Still, better than waiting til you finished the main series.
Spot on. Glad to hear so many agree. I was afraid I was just being biased because it's a character I loved in the earlier books.
Totally agree. The two year wait for this book, followed by two more years for KoD, just highlighted how little happened in Crossroads. For New Spring, I always advise new readers to read it after Fires of Heaven. I think that's when it has the greatest impact.
Yeah, it was so annoying that after that epic climax in Winter's Heart and the WORLD CHANGING implications of cleaning Saidin, and then you get to the next book and everyone's like "oh, whatever." So dumb. And then two more years of waiting for the next book. It was such a let down when I got to the end and I was like "That's it? Really?"
Been going back through the series listening to the audio books this time around while I’m at work. This series is so nice the 2nd time thru and the audio book definitely gives it a bit more life. Stumbled upon your reviews and I must say I really enjoy them!
Thanks for checking them out. Hope you'll stick around for more.
I enjoy these epic intros, haha! I am so glad you decided to read A New Spring before Knife of Dreams. So glad.
Egwene...The next book is my favorite point of her story. It's where everything that came before finally starts to make sense/matter. (also yes, the headaches are important)
I think that moment was huge for Perrin. It's the moment he decides what kind of man he is going to be. I think he is the most impacted by leaving TTR. Mat always had an adventurer's soul, Rand's soul is TDR and pulling him towards the last battle, but Perrin just wanted to be a Blacksmith. He thought he knew what kind of man he was, and then his family was ripped away from him. I think half of his emo shit is due to him not knowing how to deal with everything that's happened. I think the entire story only spans 2.5 years? It's so much in so little a time, especially for someone as methodical and thoughtful as Perrin. He's the human equivalent of an Ogier, lol. But in that moment, he chose. Whatever comes next, he chose who he is.
He only gets better from here!
Right on in regards to "he decides what kind of man he is going to be." It's huge. He's past that point where he could go completely dark and never come back and he chooses not to. Just an awesome, awesome scene.
I have nothing constructive to say about WoT, but did want to take a moment to compliment you on the quality of your review. Great intro (almost made me want to read the book). In this video and your recent critique of Name of the Wind you seem to be developing a distinctive tone and outlook that is unique to your channel. I like contrarian Mike. Glad you found things to like in this novel.
Thanks for saying so. I always try to keep getting better. I certainly don't try and take a contrarian opinion, as I love many popular things, but I'll also never BS about opinions.
@@mikesbookreviews Exactly what I liked about this particular review. You didn't just grab the low hanging fruit and slam this book completely.
@@nemoonbekend2483 I always say when watching booktube reviews that I can tell who actually read the book and who read a wiki/fan reactions.
I watched this review pretty much right after finishing the book and when you went over what happened in the prologue I didn’t remember like half of that stuff 😭
Just finished my first complete reread from start to finish since the publication and my initial read of AMOL. I MADE myself slowdown and enjoy the story this time through. There is so much nuance that Jordan tucked away in the books. Many of the things that make the initial read so maddening make revisiting this world so rewarding. Buckle up and enjoy the downhill slalom to the finish! Excited to get your reaction to the change in tone when Sanderson takes over. It can be a bit jarring especially with Mat. That being said I love Sanderson's version of Mat so much. His POV's were the only ones that had me laughing out loud. :-D
Excellent observation!
Mat gets better? Oh, man.
I was at my local barns and Nobel picking up knife of dreams when I learned that Jorden died. I was in high school at the time. I’m just glad nobody else has to go into KofD thinking it was the last piece of the story you get.
I bet the silence right after his death about the fate of the series was maddening.
Great reviews my friend. Robert Jordan was quoted as saying when he found out he was passing away that he was concentrating on the ending of his story. Some things were non-negotiable and he ended up writing about 20 % to 30% of the last books himself. He wrote the main points and Sanderson filled in the gaps. Keep up the great reviews.
I've finished TGS and Sanderson did a great job of adapting his style to fit Jordan's. At least so far.
Am unashamed Superfan! Have read the ENTIRE series 10 times? in last 5 yrs. (speed reader) And Yes, since I retired. Found you a few months ago and your honest take on the books delights me greatly. Reading & enjoying fantasy is supposed to be FUN, after all. Your reviews are insightful, food for thought, and GREAT FUN! You have become my favorite WOT content commentator. Thanks!!!
Wow, thank you so much. I still consider myself quite low on the Booktube WoT totem pole but I really appreciate the kind words.
I think the prologue was a novella. If I remember right Tor was releasing those as free ebooks to tease people between books at this point of the series. That's why they feel tacked on to the books.
That's what someone else mentioned.
Yeah they did, it was a bit of an appeasement to fans who were waiting between each book, they did it a ew times. It was a good idea at the time to keep us interested & still hooked. It was touch going when reading as each book came out, it always seemed a lot longer between books. Also once the books came out I’d read them within a few days then be bummed o thinking how many years will I now have to wait for the next in the series. So can you imagine how disappointed I was when some characters were left out of a book, or nothing much happens during the book, that’s why the slog so much worse
Your intro to this video is so good I hope they get you involved in the TV series!
Perrin is also one of my favourite characters - always has been. I am happy to say that I could really not choose a favourite among the big three by the end of the series.
A New Spring will give you a bit more on Lan's background and the Malkieri, which sets you up nicely for the rest of the series...
Ha. Thanks. I can't take credit for how good the music is.
Really enjoy your book reviews. I feel very much the same way, with the caveat that you appreciate more of the slog in hindsight once you see how it pays off. I am very excited to hear your take on the final four, they are so much fun! Especially towers at midnight!!
I've seen each of the last 4 books listed as someones favorite at least once, so I'm certainly excited for what's next.
Totally agree. That Perrin chapter was my favourite part of the book as well
I just subscribed to your channel after seeing your videos for months and never clicking on them. I have been made a believer!! Keep up the good work my friend
By this point my perspective had changed and I was looking at all 14 books as one big story, so I was alright with a book of what felt like important set-up rather than an exciting ride on its own (although obviously i wouldnt have minded more of the latter!). I think its fine when youre reading the books one after another. I can totally see why that wouldn't be the case if you'd been waiting for this to come out and had another long wait before the next book though, or maybe if you are reading the series with gaps.
As much as I'm disappointed that you're not heading straight into Knife of Dreams (I feel like Egwene really grows into being a leader and if you'll allow me two non-spoiler spoilers, "lion on the high plains" and the golden crane are two of my favorite moments), I think New Spring is also great as well, though it's not as much for how it stands as a standalone work, but for the color it adds to Moiraine and Lan's stories, especially when you (maybe? eventually?) go back and reread the first few books
+1 for "lion on the high plains" - such a great moment!
Golden Crane is one of my absolute favorite part of the series, the epitome of what makes high fantasy great. I still get goosebumps, even tears on re-reads.
Well, you're in luck. I'm already done with New Spring and 150 pages into KoD.
Mike's Book Reviews I feel like you’re going to fly through the final 4 books. They’re nonstop action compared to the slog/setup books.
Yes, the epic long conclusion to the Wheel of Tine...slog. On to greener pastures for the Emonds Field five. Can't wait to hear what you have to say, good and bad. Really enjoying the journey again through someone else's eyes. Read this solo. Even with the bad books the wheel weaves as the wheel wills on our quest so I embrace the bad. It makes the good shine that brighter.
Sergio Benitez haha I don’t think any of the books are bad, but crossroads of twilight was definitely the least enjoyable for me to read
@@Garymgk That's a better way of putting it.
"...embrace the bad. It makes the good shine that brighter" that's awesome dude.
@@MrBdl32 Thanks I appreciate that. In all honesty this series wouldn't be as good without it's numerous flaws, and they are certainly flaws. We wheelies don't show away from that.
Having the Wheelies to talk to while going through this has made it an even more rewarding experience. I'm thankful for that.
"Crossroads of Twilight"? You surely mean "Standing in the Snow, Looking at Armies"?
Ha ha, very accurate.
Just finished the book two minutes ago so of course my first stop is here. Thanks again for these videos
Crossroads of Twilight was the only book in this series that was slow to me, I did not mind the Path of Daggers or any of the other " slog books". I can't wait to hear your thought on Knife of Dreams.
I'm on chapter 3 but the prologue was the best since book 1.
Egwene and Leane actually succeed in blocking the harbor by turning the chains to cuendillar and fusing them together(I just finished the book, I'm not actually certain that's what happened). Also, is Moraine gonna come back in the next book or what?. Really the only thing that happened in this book is a few things with Egewene amd the cliffhanger at the end. Halima is Aran'gar aka Balthamael and they can channel saidin, this is stated in a previous book. So it's pretty clear that they are the ones causing the headaches and the "healing" using saidin. Also, Halima is the one who is killing certain Aes Sedai in the rebel camp. Also I'm pretty sure that Shaidar Haran is the emoboiement of the dark one. Otherwise he would've been destroyed by the dark one for impersonating him and he's just way too powerful.
The slog is tough the first read. Sets up soooo much, though, this series gets better and better every reread.
My first read I think I got through book 7 and stopped... for years, then went back and started over and blew threw all books and realized how much I'd missed.
Afterwards I listened to the great Micheal Kramer and Kate Reading audiobooks...a must. Now to start another reread.
I'm sure the foreshadowing is fantastic on a re-read.
Mike's Book Reviews the foreshadowing is a masterwork. The brilliance of it all is dazzling. The series requires a minimum of 2 read throughs. For a 3rd go through the audio books are epic.
My first question is, who is Perrin? Are you talking about Faile's husband?
Ha ha, for sure
Yeah, leaving the axe behind was an awesome moment for me, and is my SECOND favorite Perrin moment. The first is coming. Book 13 or something, I think.
Can't wait till he gets to that other moment it gives me chills every time
CAN'T WAIT.
I heard one of the guys on the black tower podcast say that rather than a slog it should be called the build. I think that has merit but I also agree with you that 3 books could’ve been edited down to 1. I’m almost done with Towers of Midnight on my first read through and I just got A Memory of Light from the Library. I almost don’t want it to end...
I think the slog reads differently now than it did when a person was waiting 3 years. Originally RJ said the series was close to ending in a couple of books so this was definitely not the book that met original readers expectations, following Winter's Heart climax.
I'll be getting that feeling soon, I think.
I didn't realize how long it was till you mentioned it and literally while you were saying "buckle up" I full-screened. Great moment lol
Btw I don't recall if you mentioned it in your review of Path of Daggers (gonna go back and watch it) but one of my favorite moments from that was when Rand used Callandor against the Seanchan and obliterated them with lightning saying "I AM the storm!" And he also was out of control with the power accidentally killing his own troops, and Bashere had to knock him down to stop him. Another part of the series that gave me chills I remember rereading it a few times
Yeah, I mentioned it. I think folks were just insulted when I said I didn't even realize Rand had sent someone to retrieve Callandor.
@@mikesbookreviews haha I saw those comments, no worries dude I've missed plenty of key moments in books before it happens. I like how it follows the prophecy, whoever draws the sword will follow him or something like that, the asha'man being the people who follow Rand. I really like the black tower stuff that happens in the last few books, I think you'll dig it
Really good episode. I look forward to the next with fervent anticipation. KOD is a great book.
150 pages in and digging it thus far.
I agree with you, 100% about the cleansing. I think that's the biggest problem with CoT, that the reader knows what everyone's wondering about. I found 8 the worst, then 10. I really enjoyed 7 and 9.
Thanks for your reviews, it's delightful to see someone else experience this for the first time. Reminds me of when I experienced it the first time!
It really felt like it was done in reverse.
damer flinn healed rand, sumitsu (bad spelling) was only able to stabilize him to get him back to the palace. damer flinn also heals stilling.
Well, damn. I'm surprised I haven't made more mistakes like this, tbh.
Getting ready to read knife of dreams, I’ve been reading one wheel of Time book every four months. So I’m going back and watching all the reviews and read the wikis of book 10 to remind myself where the story is. As always Mike, love the video.
Just finished this book yesterday & I too expecting a lot worse... I found myself enjoying myself. I was surprised that for once I ended a book not thinking negatively about Cadsuane. Because last books slam made me go crazy.
Just wanted to thank you for your great content & taking me on this journey with you.
FYI
With work sch. I've been listening to last 3 books. And Loving them. After First Law audio book I really found a love for Audible
Missed the premier by a half hour lol! Another good one. Looking forward to seeing your reactions for some of the epic stuff that happens toward the end books.
I can't wait to read the epic stuff that happens toward the end books.
I would really like to go through the comments for your videos, as a first time reader. But, there are some people who either don’t care about giving spoilers for books as yet unread, or they are unaware when they are doing it. I’m enjoying the videos anyway. Well done!
22:57 That’s ok. For some reason I got it stuck in my head that it’s pronounced “South Harbor”, which it... it’s not... 🤣
4 years and its still gettin traffic
I love your opinions and thoughts on each of the 'slog' books. I am excited to see your final thoughts!
I believe Shaidar Haran means "Right Hand of the Dark", or Shadow Hand literally. I have always thought of it as a Trinity-type correlation, or like a physical manifestation of a part of the Dark One, with a new identity, a-la Jesus the Son vs. God the Father.
There is some pretty dark shit that happens in the next book (I think, could be the one after), Rand was one of the scariest characters for me I love his entire development through the series. Super hard to pick a favorite between the three lads from Emond's Field by the end of the series, they are all so different. One minute Perrin is my fave then it's definitely Mat then it's Rand haha. Can't wait to see your reaction to the final book it's pretty amazing. So glad I found your channel I'm really enjoying your work👌
Have had numerous people request I film myself reading the final two chapters of AMoL.
Honestly I think book 12 is super dark, I almost was getting choked up during one part and my stomach was definitely doing back flips during it.
I usually recommend reading New Spring either right after Fires of Heaven or just before Towers of Midnight. The emotional impact is different in either spot but the emotional lift is equally incredible.
Just finished it. I do wish I had read it after Fires of Heaven.
Making my way through the Wheel of Time (funny thing, I've read the first 6 books 10 years ago, then life happened and reading was on the back burner for a decade), but I came back to Fantasy in November of last year, running into Crown of Swords and close to the slog. Just finished Crossroads of Twilight and completely agree with your take that it wasn't as bad as advertised. Also agree that Path of Daggers was the toughest read of the story so far. The 4 books (7-10) were like a homecoming to the story and I guess I didn't mind less action that much, but I'm so hyped for the last 4 books. I'm so saddened that today I'll be starting the last Robert Jordan solo entry (Knife of Dreams) so I'm definitely feeling what you echoed in the last part of the video, but it is what it is, and since my passion for fantasy and sci fi is reborn now, Sanderson will be what I'm turning to after I'd finished WoT, so I don't mind seeing what him and Jordan were able to put together for the end of these series.
Anyway, big shoutout to you man, I've really enjoyed each of your videos (WoT or otherwise) and I can't wait to get into some of the books you've recommended (wink wink, Joe Abercrombie).
For the wheelies fans out there, so I've not yet started Knife of Dreams (About to, today) and I've a theory on something Mike mentioned in the video regarding Halima. I remember back in Winter's heart I think it was, somebody killed one of Egwene's maids and I think I remember some stuff about "being a man before", so I'm guessing it's Halima who got the maid and she's also the one who ended the 2 Aes Sedai at end of book 10, who were murdered using Saidin. Can't wait to find out whether or not I was right.
Let's see if the hype for the last 4 books is warranted, then!
Shaidar Haran is basically the dark one's hand in the real world.
I just finished this book, now starting the prequel. For me this one was the hardest one to get through at times. 7,8 and 9 i had expexted worse and ended up enjoying them all with some critisisms ofcourse. Conclusion up until now Aes Sedai think they know everything but really know jack shit.
Good call on tackling new spring now.
I do wish I had done it immediately after Fires of Heaven.
That is definitely one of my favorite Perrin moments. It's all uphill from here.
My hope for the Perrin Comeback Tour are off life support.
Outstanding intro work Mike. 🤣😳👍
Thanks a ton.
I'm way back in book 6 right now (of my first reread in over a decade) so I don't always remember what happened in which book, so I am hesitant to say things until you mention it that way I know you have read the moment in question. But yeah Perrin's moment with his axe was probably the best moment and gets him moving which is nice. I seem to remember still feeling burned out on his whole story arc though even after this so it will be interesting to see what your take is on it.
As far as SLOG expectations go, I thought you might come out of it thinking it was better than you'd heard. Most of us waited a long time to get our hands on that book so when we read it there was a huge let down knowing the next one wouldn't be out for another few years and that is probably why a lot of folks gave up at that point. Also, this reminds me of when someone tells me a movie sucks and lowers my expectations down to zero, then I watch it and find it entertaining.
Anyway, happy reading!
I appreciate that. A lot of folks feel like answering my rhetorical questions or theories. I don't want to know! I'm just thinking out loud.
The first fifteen seconds summarizes the book really well
The reason for the super long prologues is because they were released before the books. Towards the end it was taking longer for them to release a new book. The massive prologues were released for free on the Tor website months before the books to hold people over until the books were published.
Yeah, someone told me they were released as ebooks first. Very cool.
That was the best intro you've done. You're through the worst now and I never thought this book was as bad as others seem to think.
Thanks! I'm enjoying KoD so far.
@@mikesbookreviews I love KOD. But I honestly can't even remember the slog. I've been through the books about 15 or more times now and after reading it more than once you start to know why these slow parts are important. That's from a history buff than can inhumanely follow all the characters the first time through. Enjoy the rest of the books.
P.S. I won a ticket to 2021 Jordan con next year last night and am just super hyped!
Personally I'm glad this internet community didn't exist when I was reading these books. I liked every book in the series, albeit some more than others, but I never ended any book with a dislike for it. I still re-read every book in preparation for the publication of the next. I would hate to try getting into a series with everyone unable to stop telling me what to hate or love about it.
I feel like the forsaken could be a true menace if they could work together, but even during the cleansing of saidin they worry more about gaining advantage on each other than actually fighting rand
Yep. They're the Cylons.
28:51 I think with the way the rest of the series is written, condensing them _that_ much would likely feel off, but I’ll be quite surprised if the TV show sticks with the rumored “two books per season” format here. Once you‘re at a place where there need to be pacing changes anyway, you’re right - there’s a lot stuff in books 9 & 10 that could get reduced to a couple off-hand remarks or cut altogether.
Great idea re shadar logoth rearrangement would be great if that’s what they do in the tv series
I figure if the series gets this far they'll just have it all happening at the same time.
Good call on Perrin choosing the hammer
Your reviews are awesome! This book was such a chore for me to get through bc it felt like nothing but tower politics until the last 3ish chapters. I understand it's setting up the final books, but it felt like this one could have been half the length and achieve the same. All the filler with Elayne and Egwene never making up their minds just made me care less about those 2 supergirls. Then the final chapter? Ugh so stupid for someone so important.
The Perrin development was a breath of fresh air compared to the lovesick pining puppy of the last several books.
I don't know when the true nature of Shaidar Haran is revealed so I'll try not to spoil it but it gets clearer later, for now, think of him as a super Myrddraal. His name is also in the old Tongue and explains his function further.
Thanks for being cryptic. Some here seem to think I want an answer to my rhetorical questions.
I actually did like this one. Maybe it was the amazing audiobook. Can't wait to get to the final books. Thanks for the video, Mike. I always check them out when I finish one book. Greetings from Spain!
I wonder how many book reviews Rafe has watched I order to avoid being familiar with the books.
I mostly agree with you. Im not a fan of grimdark so that perrin scene with the ax really disturbed me, and i hated how anticlimactic the last bit with mat was ( which is the point where i wanted to throw the book, for technical reasons). Which is why this one is my least favorite. But yeah i would still give it 3 of 5 on your scale too and i would never tell a wheellie to wiki the plot instead of reading it. Thats a little extreme.
I am excited to see your reaction to New Spring. I enjoyed the dynamic between Lan and Moirane in that one
Simple fixes in the editing room could have fixed so many issues with 8-10.
@@mikesbookreviews That is basically what I tell everyone I talk to about the slog. I think his editing team let him get away with too much. And I get it--I'm a writer and sometimes you just write a scene(s) that you just fall in love with. It becomes precious and you cant get rid of it. But thats why editing is so so important. Sometimes those beloved scenes just make the plot suffer and you have to trim
my god I love your intro's the quotes of course are incredible but that actual cold open.... LOVE IT HAHAHAHAHA
I think you might be missing part of the point of how the forsaken are written. To me Jordan was trying to make it that the legends and stories surrounding the forsaken made them seem larger than life.. But In actuality they weren't that much stronger. Think to when nynaeve faces moghedian and realizes shes stronger. (I hope this already happened and I'm not spoiling anything. I don't remember which book it happened in)
I guess what I'm saying is that Jordan writing them this way is to prove that they are still more human than the big baddies that the stories tell about them. Even if they are fairly crafty in their own ways.
I've gotten a lot of pushback about my Forsaken opinions and I do get what Jordan was trying to do, I just feel like they become more cartoonish with each book.
I liked this book. I found there were several character defining moments that get addressed later. Could have been condensed to action. But was still enjoyable.
HUGE moments.
Aside from the Path of Daggers take, I 100% agree with this review, including the editor comment. books 8-10 could be one amazing 800 page book. :)
I think that Elayne's political maneuverings will actually work really well for television--especially with GoT still kind of being the gold standard for fantasy TV (even though the unpopularity of the last season has tarnished its reputation a bit). They'll have to fix the pacing, but pacing is the whole problem with books 7-10, anyway.
One thing about Elayne's chapters in this period is that they serve to catch us up on a lot of little subplots. The actual action for entire chapters could be summarized as, "Elayne walked down a hallway and nodded to some people she knew." But, at this point, Caemlyn is host to people from all kinds of subplots. The Kin are there, the Sea Folk are there, there are a number of Aes Sedai factions represented, there are Seanchan prisoners... Elayne's internal monologue lets us know what's happening with all of those minor characters, even as she herself doesn't do anything much at all.
This may not be the *most* satisfying way to deal with the story, but it also isn't the worst way to do it. For example, devoting whole chapters to all of those little subplots would have been excruciating.
I think they could certainly make it better on TV.
I've skimmed the past 80 pages and closed the book on page 421 as I'mcurrently listeningto this video. I started the series after having both my hips replaced at age 35... I'm only sticking with it from the hope of a solid ending. This book definitely feels like a cliff notes type book. Love the primary characters, but there's so much secondary BS that distracts from the narrative. From this and a search I'm going to skim up til the chapters A Mark and What Must Be Done (21 & 27).
My fiance and I read a lot of fantasy series together. This is the one where I told her to read the first book and watch the show when it comes out. I feel like there's enough retrospective in 2020 that a team of solid adapters write a solid 8 seasons of 12 episode television from the broad strokes that Jordan (and Sanderson developed).
I hope the journey is worth it for both of us.
This was the first book I waited for, and that probably explains my feelings about it. So many storylines feel like they started and ended at the same place, or the same place plus a cliffhanger. And by now we knew about Jordan's health, so the ending was in question.
I'll add that while 11 was a breath of fresh air after 10, I wouldn't count it as top 5 in the series. Though to be fair I've read Sanderson's 3, and I probably *would* count all three of those as top 5. Definitely at least 2 of them.
Also, while you're already "late" on reading New Spring (most people stick it after 5), I'd almost push it to after 11 at this point, just to "feel" that gap we had between Jordan's death and Sanderson finishing 12.
It definitely seems like something the "waiters" have over the bingers.
Mike’s WOT reviews > than all other WOT reviews.
Feels more honest, less pandering to a demographic (WOT fanhood is a whole demographic in numbers!)
Shaidar Haran is "the Hand of the Dark One" and while it's never explored too deeply, as far as the Forsaken are concerned he IS the Great Lord, he's the physical avatar of the Dark One and acts and speaks with his full authority. To disobey Shaidar Haran is to disobey the Great Lord. I think the best comparison is with the biblical Metatron, who is not God but is the Word of God. Shaidar and the Myrdraal in general are super interesting, and I'm sad that Shaidars connection to the Dark One is never more deeply explored.
Yeah, I'm befuddled.
Alviarin encounter with him makes this pretty clear.
Just discovered your videos last night and have now caught up on your Wheel of Time reviews. Double plus good.
Thank you for the balanced approach to "the slog". Perrin's plot line is the worst during these books. I always get hung up on that plot during re-reads. If you're interested I have many thoughts on Why Faile Is Not As Bad As She Seems, but will refrain unless people care.
I like the idea that this should have come before Winter's Heart. I've often thought about cutting up the chapters and rearranging them in an order that makes more sense. It often felt like Jordan was trying to avoid the Person Doesn't Appear In This Book again and instead just messed up the timeline a bit.
If it helps going into the Sanderson books they are listed as co-authors for a good reason and not just to honor his memory. Jordan knew he was dying and dedicated a lot of the time he had left to getting as much done on the series as possible. There is still a lot of stuff in the last three books that Jordan wrote including the final chapter of A Memory of Light. Some books had more Jordan material than others, but they all have some.
Sanderson had an ongoing series on his blog about his process, starting with his pre-writing re-read and through to the end. It's really interesting, covers a lot of what he thought about at the time, what he felt he didn't get right and what he thought he did. I haven't looked at them in a bit, but they should all still have the appropriate spoiler warnings. He also liked to point out the bits that Jordan wrote that people particularly liked.
That's one heck of a marathon. Glad you enjoyed it. I definitely want to get that across that I'm not one of those saying Sanderson will "fix" the problems.
@@mikesbookreviews You've made it clear that there's no "fixing" or a need to do so. You just seemed a bit sad that Knife of Dreams was the last book by Jordan and I wanted you to know that his writing is all throughout the final 3 books.
@@amaresuify , you made my day (night actually) too!
I'll definitely check Brandon's blog when done with the series.
Thank you 🍃
I think I might have just been subscriber #5k. Cool! Love the reviews man, keep em coming 👍
Thanks!
I'm not sure that I ever considered 7-10 a "slog" as such but as I've mentioned before, Winter's Heart was where things grew slow enough for me that I stopped until the series was finished, so I don't totally disagree with that idea, either. I've never really felt Crossroads to be a nadir in that span but it is one that, even in rereads I find myself scanning certain passages quickly, eager to get on to Knife of Dreams.
The whole Faile-captive arc is one of the reasons these aren't my favorites. I did love Perrin's take one how-to-interrogate-an-Aiel, though.
Knife of Dreams--looking forward to hearing your take on that one!
I can certainly see this one being "skimmed" in a re-read.
Don’t worry, Perrin resurges as an absolute badass. Towers of Midnight and Memory of Light have GREAT Perrin chapters.
Can't wait!
Half a year trying to read the book. Every few weeks I tried to go back to it only to start checking out again. Those Elayne chapters, man.
She’s the worst.
Delighted your doing new spring think most people going through the slog did them back to back
Definitely didn't want to read New Spring at the end.
I'm soooooo glad (thank you God) that I stopped reading this series at book 3.5, but now get to efficiently finish by my entertaining boy Mike posting these reviews
You are missing out haha
@@Chabooki Too busy cleaning and organizing my room.
I always felt like 9, 10, 11 should have been somehow combined into 2 books. Everything in book 10 is either wrap up from book 9 or set up for book 11. It doesn't really go anywhere on its own. 10 is substantially less crappy if you read it immediately back to back with 11 though.
8-10 could have been one great book.
I felt like about 4 of those books (it's been a while since I read so I forget which) could have been summarized with Book 1- Matt continues to.... Book 2 Perrin Continues to... Book 3 Rand continues to... and so on. With a big battle at the end of one of them that you should read. The rest was slog city for about 2000 pages there. At least it does get better at some point.
The whole series could certainly be whittled down to a solid 10 book series.
Glad you didn't end up hating the book! And I agree on the Perrin moment, and I think its generally held to be the high point of the book.
For me, I can't really get over how pissed I was when reading this book when it was published. The series had been slowing down for several books, but then in the previous one he pulled off this amazing world-changing ending with the source being cleansed. I eagerly waited for Crossroads of Twilight to come out, when I would get to find out what the consequences of that was. Only I didn't because he decided to just run this book in parallel to it... I can still remember reading though it, waiting for him to cut the crap and get to some post-cleansing events, and slowly realising it just wasn't going to happen.
Sounds like my reaction to A Feast For Crows when it came out. I was PISSED.
It was so hard to get that book after the wait, but Winter’s Heart made it all better.
At the time I thought of shaidar haran as the dark ones avatar, kind of his proxy to reach further into the world. As the seals are breaking his ability to touch the world is greater but he can’t actually get out so maybe a partial essence of him has manifested as this strange myddraraal
I just finished this one earlier today and agree with your take completely. I really was dreading it but I finished it in just a few days, which isn’t a normal speed for me. Path of Daggers is still the weakest for me. Thanks for doing these. I watch your reviews as soon as I finish each book for a decompression. Cheers!
27:02 IMHO, you’re not particularly wrong, and this is one aspect that I hope the Amazon show changes.
I brought this up on The Dusty Wheel the other night and was surprised how many agreed with me.
Mike's Book Reviews oh! That’s right! I need to go back and watch that episode now that I’ve watched your reviews! Thanks for reminding me 😁
I'm going to try to read CoT with new eyes. It's the only one that I had a grudge with. After WH I was expecting all hell to break loose. I was living in China when it came out. Scoured the country to find a copy. Flew to Korea, Japan always too late. Finally found a copy in Thailand my last day of vacation. Aaand well it was not what I had built it up to be