Acoutic engineer here. The reason for a fixed bridge to sustain longer is that the vibration of the strings reflects backwards when hitting the fixed attachment points (as sound into a brickwall, because of a large difference in acoustic impedance). In theory, the more monolithic/hard the body is, the more energy will remain reflecting back and forth in the string (all usual neck joint types/woods can be counted as monolithic enough, but try a rubber guitar and you'll see what I mean). Fixed bridge means less moving parts where the energy can be lost to heat. Floating bridges introduce some damping, dissipating some of the energy away. It's also true that a fixed configuration transfers more energy to the body (as opposed to being lost in moving parts), but this will boost just the acoustic sound of the guitar, not the sound that gets transmitted to the electronics.
Agreed with you, nice analysis. I am a physics master student, what you said is logical. But if I want to analyze this wave propagation model more accurately (including coupled wave between the body and the string), it may have different phase position and will destructive interfere . Maybe we need a numerical computing software to solve it accurately ❤
Great video! Confirmed all my suspicions. I prefer decked, always felt like the best compromise. Plus I hate that thing where the other strings go out of pitch if you bend one of them :-)
I play one (neck-through) custom built Strat with a decked American Standard trem (4 springs) with GraphTech StringSaver saddles, it sounds great. The pickups come from a DeLuxe Strat Plus from the late 1980s/early 1990s. Last year I bought a Plus with a blocked trem and I got that one floating again together with my ex-brother-in-law, who is a Hank Marvin style player. We started doing that with a rare Ibanez Roadster RS350, which I liked more since then and later we did the Plus. I have been playing decked for DECADES, mainly because it looked right. I still have one used Cort S2900 with a BLOCKED Wilkinson VS-50IIK, that came from a professional rhythm guitarist. With professional I mean that he bought a house from the money earned with touring through Germany etc. I find that quite an achievement for a RHYTHM guitarist. I think it's still in there... 1st because I think that he knew what he was doing and 2nd because it's kind of STUCK... So, what you should do with the trem depends on the FUNCTIONALITY that you need for a certain gig. If you are going to play Shadows and Ventures stuff, use the floating trem. Are you playing RHYTHM only, block it. And if you need to play both, you can consider DECKED. Or you can use more than one guitars on stage of course. Hardtail Strats don't exist for nothing.
I think the actual physics are the opposite of your description. It's not that the vibrations are transmitted to the body, it's that there is no energy wasted microscopically moving the trem system around when it is rigidly mounted. The density and mass of the body keeps it from vibrating much. In other words, more energy stays in the strings because less is transmitted elsewhere.
That's right. There is still some energy lost in the body, we can feel it vibrating, but this is either constant or the difference between configurations is less than what the vibrato system steals when it vibrates. It could also explain why a heavier block in the system makes a difference: more inertia leads to less energy being transmitted to it.
Mark Haury hey just cuz Stephen hawking passed doesn’t give you runner up status...just kidding...physics is a tricky subject best left out of guitars...it’s in the hands and the soul...check out John5 playing a hello kitty acoustic number...he turns turns into a hello lion
Hi! I agree that the movement of the trem can certainly be a culprit sucking up some of the string's energy. I'm not so sure that more energy stays in the strings as it will either be dissipated in the trem system or the guitar body / neck (you can't just keep it in the strings). I do, however, also think that the vibration of the guitar's body and neck does help sustain. It's not just a wasteful dissipation as some think. It's like how playing one note on the 6th string sets all the strings in motion through vibration, or a simple "knock or tap" on the body will start all the strings ringing. The body vibrating certainly gives some amount (however small) back to the note/chord being played ☺
Great video (as ALWAYS )! Darrell, I'd like to take a second to say THANK YOU SO MUCH for all the great fun, interesting and informative content that you and the other TH-camres put out. Even though I've been playing for well over 50 years and know a lot, I'm constantly learning new things and being reminded of things that I may have forgotten about along the way. I'm turning 65 in June and I'm so thankful that I can still sing, write and play to a professional level. And especially that I'm still learning and growing daily, Thanks in part to you and the TH-cam music community.
I liked Decked best, it's a compromise but it had the best of both extremes that blocked and floating offered. If all I cared about was sustain, I'd probably play a hard tail, string through, probably with a set or neck through. Strats have a distinct sound all of their own, I liked the deck because it was a bit thicker sounding than floating while blocked seemed to dampen much of the sympathetic vibrations and airyness I expect from the combinations of floating with strings. My vintage style strat has been decked for a while and I was thinking of blocking as something to do while bored this weekend. I think you convinced me to leave it alone. After all I have a CU24 and HSH RG both with floyd rose for floating and a les paul and Zach Myers and Ibanez SZ for fixed bridged. Great job on these videos.
Professor Braun an excellent study of sustainability and the side by sides sped up were a great way to compare, thanks I really learned the differences. Rock on!!!
To properly “deck” the bridge you need to also tighten down the six bridge plate screws and then raise and realign the saddles according to radius. This will place the bridge plate securely against the body and transfer the energy accordingly.
This causes the bridge to raise at the back. I've fixed alot of Strats, where the owner cranked down the 6 bridge screws and wondered why their bridge is jacked up. You're supposed to screw them down all the way, then back off until they are just touching the plate.
My 2016 american standard, master volume with treble bleed, v mod pickups, has the pop in trem arm with the 2 pin trem system. Therefore no need to worry about the 6 bridge plate screws. I will say the strings height is perfectly setup in the "arc" like shape of the classic 9.5 fretboard radius. Now I didn't set it up that way other than adjusting the anchor screws inside the body deeper in to re deck the bridge after a string change rose the bridge to floating. (Previous owner used Ernie super slinky strings, I use light gauge nano or polyweb elixir strings which must have a decent enough higher string tension to have pulled the bridge up to floating status. But after screwing the anchor screws just a few turns further in, it resolved and fixed that issue easily. And I've considered refloating it for gentle and minute vibrato flutters, but I just can't bring myself to do it as I honestly feel like I prefer it decked the most by far. I play mostly in an aggressive and hard blues style think philip sayce and eric gales with a sprinkle of srv and mayer, and usually only letting off the dynamics for lenny style and sounding type of playing when the mood of what I'm playing calls for it. Robin trower would be the other blues sounding style I like playing. Aside from that, I also am drawn to psychedelic rock like liquify and indie styles like yuuf. Also recently Ariel posen has really caught my attention. I'd really like to get a magneto sonnet raw dawg 2 or 3.preferably a 2. But I've been eyeing a 3 priced very well. Also I have a cheap ibanez with really good sounding pickups in it(no idea what kind wish I knew, need to open it up to find out someday) but I call it "the beater" it's seen some wear and very hard aggressive playing, I can always float up the bridge on it since it has a 2 pin ibanez tremolo system if I need something floated. Cause that reminds me, I usually always play my strat in e flat tuning instead of standard therefore lessening the tension.
I just take the screws holding the springs down and tighten them all the way down and tighten the 6 screws on the bridge down so it's just perfectly flat. Really helped with keeping it in tune. Take a block of wood and shove it in there as well and it's fine. The sustain isn't interesting to me, but staying in tune is.
Great video Darrell!! I love when you bust out your white American Strat!! This was super informative but I know nothing will make me change my floated Strat bridge! I know sustain could be better but the expressive nature of the float is too good to give up!!
I bought my first strat in 2000, and I didn’t know about sustain discussions for quite awhile because the things I learned about strats was all print in magazines, I didn’t know guitar resources online. But I can look back and say I didn’t know what I was missing as the guitar sustained plenty for pretty much everything I tried. With those 5 guitars I just didn’t have sustain problems. And with each, 4 American 1 Mexican, I also have not had the amount of problems guys say when using it. My newest is an American Pro and once again no problem. I sincerely believe it can all be avoided when a strat is properly set up. Not just string height relief. Everything done properly. I hope that guys and gals who want or buy a strat find one and really enjoy it. Proper adjustment by a GOOD luthier can really go far.
Nice to see what you already know confirmed without immediately being told what's best and you're doing it all wrong! Thanks fella very informative as always.
Incredible video! Answered ALL my questions about why some choose to modify how these guitars come from the factory. I have played an acoustic guitar for about 50 years. But, I have recently become interested in playing more bluesy, bendy tunes. I was fortunate to score a nice MIM Strat at a very fair price, but I am still learning how it works. It was missing the whammy bar and I did not understand why. Turns out it has been decked. My point is... THANKS for the explanation on this. I may now cut a nice piece of tone wood and block it. I like the idea of sustain. Or I may just leave it alone for now.
I had no idea these terms existed and have not adjusted one part of my Stratocaster in the 4 months I've played guitar. I have used the tuners to stay in tune. The guy at the guitar shop "setup" my guitar and I have no idea what that entails. I had to watch this video a few times to understand what was going on. Darrell, you must be a great and patient teacher to make a video like this.
Shawn P. Thanks so much 😉 I will take your advice, but I have to learn one thing at a time, for instance the setup will be my first focus. I also plan to buy a Floyd Rose because of Darrell's last video. I can't keep my Strat in tune and I heard that is a common complaint with Standard Strats. I will have a professional perform the installation. My guitar teacher gives me a lot of homework and I feel like I would learn more by staying in tune. And yes, despite the tuning issues, I ❤ my guitar and I will try to hold onto it, first love and all that jazz😍
You're correct about which gives best sustain - thanks for making the comparison video. But you're incorrect about the reason/theory. The body doesn't cause some "positive feedback loop" that feeds energy back into the strings. Blocking simply prevents the bridge from flexing and wasting the strings energy. If the bridge can move/flex (even decked) because of the springs, some of the string's energy will be wasted -- so blocking prevents the bridge from moving and wasting energy.
Nice work, I think u are the first who open this theme in video at very high lvl of quality and details. Saved this video, as the same video about sustain length demands from deck width
Fascinating video here! I've always had my strats decked, but I will certainly be trying out Blocked! Decked has always worked for me, especially in my MIM Hendrix strat, plus I just never use the trem so the stability is worth more to me.
We have to remember, though, that even the most subtle compressor would make the floating trem out-sustain the blocked one. So if you like a particular configuration but aren't happy with your sustain, then perhaps a compressor might be the ticket.
I agree. IMHO, sustain isn't really the factor for choosing whether or not you should do this. it's more about functionality. If you dont use a wammy bar, then you should deck it, just for functional purposes. locking tuners on a decked strat is the way to go. you can always get a cheap compressor if you trying to get good clean sustain tones.
Very interesting comparison. Not too surprised by the results. Most people have theories of why this or that sounds better or worse but don't actually put in the effort to A/B them. Well done, great video!
For me I blocked mine. It was t a sustain thing it was a intonation thing. I’m not doing a lot of work on the bar. Rarely use it honestly. For me it made sense. Tuning stability seems better with the bridge locked down to the body. I used to float the bridge just a tad so I could use my palm not ever them trem bar to move it but I really don’t do that now
That was very illuminating! I have had my Strats decked for some years but I'm going to block them after seeing this video. Works for Clapton. Next video I would like to see sustain tests using different types of wood. (Kidding...).
Violin makers use a dowel of wood to join the top to the back - a sound post, I think. My violin repairer said that he prefers a sound post with seven growth rings in it. Eight made the wood too hard, and sound more brittle. He also set the sound post so that the grain ran at a right angle to the grain of the top.
Great test. From my own experience, my Eric Clapton Strat is blocked. Great sustain. For my Stratocaster Dlx Plus, which I use for modern Christian music, I float the bridge, using 5 springs and float bridge parallel to the body. This gives me very good control and allows me to return to pitch better. For Christian music, I play a lot of shimmering notes and chords. While I'm a fan of Michael Casswell, Ian Thornley, Andy Summers, and Jeff Beck, sadly, I don't play like they do.
part of the magic in strat sound is the resonance of the trem springs - float maximizes this nuance. u can also play around with different springs to color that resonance. thanks db great as always!
A superb, concise and intelligent study. I did feel bad for that poor guy on the right in the tests though, he looked pretty miserable. I suggest a therapy dog to cheer him up. Potentially there is so much scientific analysis that could be done on this. With my (very, very beginner) guitarist's hat on it's not interesting because your concise summary at the end is all that matters. With my physicist's hat on however I would love to see someone doing a physics degree choose as their final year project the study of the resonance properties of floating vs blocked (as the two boundary cases) across the entire guitar system. From a physics point of view one thing that occurs to me is that in coupling the bridge more tightly to the body any energy transfer from the strings to the body is all happening in that one specific area on the body which, although I can't be bothered to think it through any further than that, might be significant in explaining why in what is essentially a closed system as far as energy is concerned the sustain improves with increasing levels of string to body coupling. Your experiment supports one almost universal non-physics law. If you want maximum sustain you need to forsake the trem capability. If you want trem capability you need to compromise on sustain - i.e. you can't get something for nothing (there's no such thing as a free lunch).
Thanks for going through the process of making this comparison, the lack of external differentiating factors further helps to the more accurate results (plus your paused, melodic characteristic way of playing really helps seeing these factors in effect!) - this being said, I'm a long floating trem guy. I don't use it to the extreme with Eddie Van Halen style dropbombs and such, but some of my favorite and most influential guitar idols such as David Gilmour and João Cabeleira (Portuguese lead guitar player of Xutos e Pontapés) use them often to add some dynamics to the sound, and so do I like too. My main guitar is Floyd Rose-equipped so the Strat trem can't be a bigger pain in the ass, plus I don't think the tonal and sustain differences to be that meaningful to justify removing a key feature of a Strat. Since I study musical theory, changing tuning is quite impractical as it messes up scale patterns and whatnot given my still limited knowledge degree, plus most of favorite types of music are either played in Standard tuning or can be easily transposed. Still, quite a neat video to consider for a possible future Strat purchase! ;)
This was great, Darrell (as usual) and thank you for the detailed comparison. Just bought a Pawncaster (2010 Squier Strat Affinity made in Indonesia) project guitar for $35. This info is just what I wanted to validate my choice. You saved me (and a lot of others) a bunch of looking and testing. So thanks much! I'm accustomed to bends (read that as I never properly learned to use the tremolo bar effectively) so I deck my bridge. But I guess I am going to start carving a sustain block. I had no idea you could make that big a difference on sustain using this method.Thanks again!
Iv come back to this video after changing my ways in the last couple of years. I used to deck my trem purely for tuning stability but now iv learnt out how to float a trem properly and will never look back. The tone with it floating is next to none.
@@joeltunnah its definitely a thing but iv just learnt over the years to also slightly bend the ‘non’ bent string when doing double stops to keep them both in tune
If you are 'blocking' your guitar, you need to use a solid hardwood such as beech or better still alder. If you use a softwood such as pine you may lose the solid connection between the bridge and body. Even better, get a block of aluminium in there! If you want to float your bridge and still have sustain, get a solid brass version of the bridge which almost fills the bridge space, just allowing the movement you want. The mass of the bridge block will do the same as blocking but will not affect your ability to tremolo.
I filled up the entire trem cavity with wood and installed hard-tail. Also made the whole body thinner. It is the most comfortable thing to play and no more floating non-sense.
To me, what matters most is that decked and blocked have the highest action. It just feels and plays better to me when I have it like that. Mine is currently decked because I use it sometimes, but I really felt better after switching. Especially because I use Drop D sometimes so that I can play with my violin easier (to anyone who plays a violin family instrument, both D major and D minor are some of the easiest keys [you learn D major first]), which is fun. I feel like decked is the best for me, but I respect everyone’s opinions on what is best for them, but recommend that everyone experiments first.
If you set the Strat to float and use the bar often (Jeff Beckish) and lube the pressure and pinch points and can learn the art of keeping in tune by using movements on the term arm it becomes quite fun but it took me awhile , but I like that style. Strats rock no matter how you like to play them!
Another very useful and informative video from Darrell; many thanks. Mine was decked, but I have just changed it to blocked guided by this video. Guitar sounds great, good sustain and solid tuning 👍
Always an amazing video by Darrell! Not only your info was very PhD graded, I couldn’t lay away my eyes off your great (and proof tested) collection of guitars 🎸 as a background. Mainly interested in your Imperial At-At tho!
When something is vibrating, anything that damps that vibration, such as soft wood, springs, or other soft or easily moved material in contact with the strings, will reduce sustain by robbing the strings of energy. That’s probably why Telecasters sustain so much better than most Strats. Hard, dense wood, no tremolo, and good, hard saddle and nut material will give the best sustain. If that really means anything.
This video is the best I've seen to see the distinction of the different tones each one gives you.... blocked and decked the best sounding... floating too plinky
For my personal experience, I like to have my guitar decked (or flushed) mostly because it makes me bend notes easier than having a woodblock in the tremolo bridge and it still stays in tune and I havent seen the bridge floating while bending notes (as long as you add 2 or 3 springs which I havent done that, but I have tightened those screws not completely but fair enough) But great comparison Darrell! 👍
An added benefit of a blocked trem is that the bridge will stay in tune while bending, an essential element of playing in tune double stop bends or bending one string while holding a fixed note on another.
I’ve had my strats in all 3 configurations for different reasons over the years. Sustain was never a consideration. My concerns were tuning stability, how I was going to use the trem, and double stop bends being in tune. My trem is currently floating; I’m thinking about decking.
It's a year later, and I'm still floating and thinking about switching to decked. Still nothing to do with sustain, as I don't have a sustain problem with it floating. My problem is that I like doing double stop bends and I'm tired of them being out of tune. I know I'll be sacrificing the expressiveness of the floating trem, but at least right now that seems less important to me than the double stop bends.
The mass of body and neck and their „harmony“ vibrating kinda provide a micro- or pico-seconds delayed movement referred to the stringmovement. That delayed wood-vibration is kinda „feeding“ back to the ongoing stringvibration, and also colouring the timbre of the notes. Its like you hold a pendulum with your hand and move your hand slightly counter wise to the swing. Thank you Darell, for the lot of work and effort put in these kind of tests!! You are enlightening us👌🏼👍🏼💪🏼😀
Thanks Darrell for the useful post. In my tests, I've found that putting anything against the tremolo block negatively changes the tone of my Strat. I came up with a quick way one can quickly test "Decking" a floating bridge with a minimum amount of hassle. The gap at the back of the bridge is typically about 2-2.5mm thick. A popsicle stick is about 2mm thick. Here's what I did: 1. Trim a popsicle stick to match width of the bridge (E to e). 2. Bevel the popsicle stick so it matches the wedge shaped gap at the back of the bridge. 3. Put a piece of double-sided tape on the top of the guitar in the space under the bridge. 4. Place the wedge-shaped popsicle stick on the tape under the back of the bridge. 5. If the wedge is not fitting snug against the bottom of the bridge, there are two easy fixes. a. Temporarily add a spring to your Tremolo Claw. b. Or, add a thin piece of cardboard, paper, or wood to the popsicle wedge. 6. You might need to tune your guitar a little, but you'll get a pretty good idea as to how Decking the bridge will sound. Note: An advantage of using the double sided tape is that you can quickly take off the popsicle stick and try some other materials. I also tried aluminum, bone, and pick guard plastic. It only takes seconds to change materials, so you can get a good idea as to what works best on your guitar. Also the double-sided tape holds the wedge in place, so you can still dive bomb your tremolo bar. You now have a "Floating-deck Tremolo Bar." And one note of caution: When removing the tape, roll it from one side to the other. Do NOT pull it straight up, as you don't want to pull up any finish/paint.
floating bridge like the old 6 screws fender works perfect with the setup of the time it begins to be manufactured! Meaning 5 springs with set of 12 / 51 with third wound sustain is more, with some reverby kind of effect from the springs! My partscaster 50's still in tune since the day I put the strings on. The downside is the very strong high strings but other than that works very fine ( the bridge is vintage spec kluson tv10 )
hi, i have a question about decked tremolo. Do you have to do any calibration to your guitar if you decide to change your floating system to decked? I am not sure about the adjustements that i have to do. I want to try decked option
My Fender American Strat has a floating bridge, and it literally never goes out of tune. I do not know why other than maybe the nut is perfect, but that’s the main reason I’ll never let it go, that and it has sentimental value to me as well. It was a graduation gift to myself for graduating college with my bachelors in psychology. Not sure what my gift to myself will be when I get my masters or Ph.D, maybe a car? Lol. Anyway I love this strat and it never shifts tuning even with a floating bridge. Guess I got lucky. I do have the locking tuners on it, but that’s for easy string changes. It still stayed in tune without them.
Great job, as usual. I was considering buying tremolo stoppers for my 3 strats so this is a timely video for me. With the stoppers you can still use the whammy bar, but only push down, not pull up. It returns to a fixed stop when released, not floating, so tuning returns to the same point. It also provides a physical connection between the block and the body, although it's a small contact area. It looks like a good compromise to me. Do you have any thoughts on them?
My old (20 years) MIM strat came with the trem decked. Floating the trem and adding two black springs to the 3 stock chrome ones completely fixed a really bad tuning stability problem and made a huge improvement in tone; plus, the using the floating trem sounds much better than the decked setup. I don't like the muddy sound of too much amp gain, but a good compressor gets all the sustain I need.
Glenn Gardin ohh I like that...I got 2 so far but seldom use the floating...in haven found the right spring tension...even straight fender brand...maybe I’ll hybrid then...hey it’s done with strings
I was thinking the same thing! 1 each way in different colors with slightly different pickup configurations. At least that's what I'm gonna tell my wife 😉🎸😎 Rock on Professor Braun!
I don't think floating or decked has any appreciable effect on sustain. I've played decked and floating Fender trems for years. To me, the difference is that floating trems need to be adjusted more when using different strings or dive bombing a lot, while decked or blocked are pretty stable. I prefer my Strat decked.
I can understand having a floating bridge for versitility (this is my choice of setup) or a decked bridge to help with tuning stability. To me having a blocked bridge is totally stupid. It means that there is no use having the trem in the first place. You would have been better off getting a fixed bridge. Essentially you are paying for something and then making it totally redundant.
So I bought a Floyd Rose black bridge for my black USA strat 2004 but have so far chickened out of putting it on. Probably because I realized that I'd have to reset the whole guitar up after. Should I take it into the shop & get ripped again?
I decked my 84 MIJ strat with a Tremolo 1 bridge (which I hated) against some stainless steel washers to keep the bridge level. Then, added springs and pulled them in to hold the washers tight. The sound difference was phenomenal!
Great vid. Does the block eliminate the problem where strings you're holding while bending another drop slightly in pitch, creating a jarring, out of tune effect?
Deciding factor should always be on what songs you play. I have recently blocked one of my Ibanez prestige guitars and left the other one floating so I cna use one for drop tuning or for live gigs in case I don't panic when a string breaks, and I have the other for tremolo uses for thst modern rock and metal sound. Best of both worlds and complimenting each other nicely.
@@DarrellBraunGuitar It only took me a YEAR to do this and get back to you. I bought a couple of those really cheap Floyd Rose trems from Aliexpress and while they're not bad, I had a bad time of getting them to return to center when you used the trem. I have a feeling it's because the metal they're made of isn't exactly the best quality... so I blocked them both. O M G the difference in tone it made. Now I'm on a quest to block the rest of my guitars. LOL.
Even on a floating bridge, damping the springs withe rolled tissues fed inside the coil and in between each spring can reduce sound transmission losses
Which gives more bounce (sustain): dribbling a basketball on a concrete sidewalk (blocked), on a wooden basketball floor (decked) or on a trampoline (floating)? If you want more bounce from the ball (i.e., vibration from the string), then the answer is simple. You want as stiff of a guitar setup as possible. The ideal configuration for me would be a string-through design, or a hard tail (although to me, a hard tail doesn't even feel as good as a string-through).
I don't think that's right, because that would mean that you would get a BETTER result if you would block the trem with rubber or silicone. IMO feeding the vibrations back via the bridge and the nut and anything in between contributes to the total amount of sustain. I think that the pivot points contribute to the sustain, and I think the springs and the claw and its two screws do too. The point is: it's so LITTLE material compared to what happens in a hardtail Strat. There is a LACK of body contact. The WOODEN BLOCK compensates for that lack, by creating a direct resonating contact between the tremolo-block and the body. If that block would be made from soft rubber or silicone you would LOOSE sustain IMO. Darrell, test of BLOCK materials please! WOOD vs METAL (brass) vs soft rubber/silicone.
Scarlette Punk the principle remains true even though the material choices are exaggerated. Observe for example the rebound of a metal ball bearing (and a BIG one it's more fun) on various densities of wood, let's say Spruce vs. Maple. Tight and dense gives more rebound. Whether or not that is one wants to hear becomes a subjective matter of course. Basketballs may sound great on a court but supposedly make for a crappy guitar tone. 🏀Hell to keep in tune for sure.
The problem with saying the floating trem is isolating the strings is that the bridge springs still act as a damper. But i still do subscribe to theory 1. the problem is its hard to stop transmitting energy to the body. the reason certain woods have more sustain or tone than other is not the reason that tonewood people think it does. heavier woods have tighter grain and reflect the vibrations back to the strings at the bridge rather than absorb them. in the case of the floating trem vs blocked, the floating trem is transferring its energy to the springs (you can even hear it on strats) and the blocked trem gives a much more stable surface for the bridge to reflect the vibrations back to the strings
Clapton figured this out when he blocked Brownie. If your style doesn't require a trem, blocking the Strat bridge is a no-brainer. Thanks for the test!
Once again, great video! Thanks Darrell! Am I correct in interpreting the results that even though the blocked trem gives the longest sustain, the floating version has about 10% less sustain? If that's the case, I'd prefer losing a bit of sustain in order to have the full expressiveness of the floating version. Cheers!
Right! I can totally live with 10% to 30% less sustain on clean. If needed, you can always add a bit of compression on a pedal. Useful stuff! Thanks again, Darrell! Cheers!
Very informative, Darrell. As an experienced player, I really don't care about the sustain factor, I just care about the best way to have some occasional tremelo, going down in pitch is fine, with having the guitar holding tune being the most important factor. Thanks.
I do not even pay attention to the 3 words since I do NOT care about a tremolo. So I get the bridge parallel over the body when strung up to 1/2 tone low (makes it easier to sing) and insert a soft wood block between the tremolo block (usually pot metal) and the rear of the guitar. The wooden block is usually 15MM 'deep' and spans only about the middle 2 springs (I install 2 springs only... on either side of the center of the claw where a ground wire is generally soldered). So the bridge is always floating parallel to the top of the guitar and cannot move up or down when the guitar is at 1/2 step low or regular pitch. .
Hi. Congratulations on your channel. I recently blocked my Stratocaster with a wooden block in the back. Do you think it is advisable to insert another block in the front? Some friends say it's half the work. Thnks friend
Another option.... replace. I have Vega Trems on my two Strats. A world of difference. Night and day, total stability, bend up, bend down. A great alternative to the Floyd. No lock nut required, but locking tuners and nut sauce on the nut andyou are good to go.
Sustain is not equal to tone. I font use the trem much, but I keep my American Standard trem floating because it sounds awesome that way. It is almost like a touch of built in reverb.
Hi Darrel! Great vid. This convo is about sustain but did you notice a difference in feel between the 3 different trem positions? I’ve always felt saddle angle effects the stiff or loose feel of a guitar. I have a new Ultra decked at the moment but it’s a bit stiff, I may go back to a float although it’s not my jam. Any observations on your end?
Well all in all it all depends on your playing style/genre you are playing. Blocked bridge gives you tunning stability when a floating bridge is very versatile...etc. So it's good all three, in my opinion.
I'm a believer in the 2-point Tremolo which only one of my 4 Strats has...my Daphne Blue MOD Shop beauty. The other 3 have the 6 screw Trems and do not have the same sustain (even my beloved Surf Green '57 AVRI can't match the sustain of the MOD Strat). I learned so much from this video and it will be a go to guide for Trem settings....thanks Darrell! Maybe the next video will address guitar color obsession.
Scarlette Punk Thank you!! It's nice to know I'm not the only one with a color fixation. Daphne Blue and Surf Green Strats, I own 4 and want more, it's ridiculous!
Shawn P. I have two Daphne Blue beauties that I talk endlessly about. A Fender MOD Shop Stratocaster with Seymour Duncan SSL-5/SSL-5 in the neck/Middle and a JB Jr in the Bridge. And a 50's Classic Series Strat with Seymour Duncan SSL-1s in every position. And I still want to buy a 2007 Daphne Blue Custom Classic Strat, but I can't justify a 3rd guitar over $1500.00. I've only seen orange on Charvels and Jacksons, a unique, but cool color choice.
Very Informative. Love your content. I just purchased a Suhr 2014 with a Super Expressive Floating Trem-System. OMG = Never enjoyed playing so much, and the Tuning stability is ridiculous. Different Beast with the Gotoh 510. One Love from NYC.
Here's my theory on strats. The cavity inside is robbing a lot of acoustic energy. If you place your ear on the body, you can hear the resonation throughout the metal block inside. It's absolutely shrill. No wonder tele's sound great!
And that's why I cut a big brass pipe ring in half, and tapped it tight into the space between the tremolo block and the wood of the body. Works especially well for the zinc blocks, and the most noticeable for third and fourth strings.
Great Video Darrel, I Wasn't Surprised Relay With The Results, But A Great Way To Show The Differences, Like You I Like My Trem Floating, Each To There Own Thankk You For Showing This As Im Sure It Will Help People Decide On What they Like Best, Cheers Bro
I use 3 piles of 1p coins superglued together instead of wood. The springs are still in for grounding. Piece of foam over the lot and the cover back on.
Ok, so I tried blocking the trem of my EJ strat, this is the maple neck version. I tried redwood and cherry, the redwood really damped much of the guitars overtones, really changing the overall sound of the guitar. That is not too surprising as redwood is pretty soft. The cherry also dampened the guitars overtones/acoustic output and was usable but the guitar has much more sustain/tone/overtones/ring with the guitar setup with the trem floating. Maybe with a block made of alder the results would mirror yours.
Acoutic engineer here. The reason for a fixed bridge to sustain longer is that the vibration of the strings reflects backwards when hitting the fixed attachment points (as sound into a brickwall, because of a large difference in acoustic impedance). In theory, the more monolithic/hard the body is, the more energy will remain reflecting back and forth in the string (all usual neck joint types/woods can be counted as monolithic enough, but try a rubber guitar and you'll see what I mean). Fixed bridge means less moving parts where the energy can be lost to heat. Floating bridges introduce some damping, dissipating some of the energy away.
It's also true that a fixed configuration transfers more energy to the body (as opposed to being lost in moving parts), but this will boost just the acoustic sound of the guitar, not the sound that gets transmitted to the electronics.
Agreed with you, nice analysis. I am a physics master student, what you said is logical. But if I want to analyze this wave propagation model more accurately (including coupled wave between the body and the string), it may have different phase position and will destructive interfere . Maybe we need a numerical computing software to solve it accurately ❤
A Strat always seemed to have that iconic unique and defined sound regardless of any figuration! That's why I love them!
RC32 = Greatest & most versatile Guitar ever made.
scale length and single coils are the reason why
Enjoy the new video!
Floating trem Darrell looks so sad though! :(
Great video!
Thanks man!
Great video! Confirmed all my suspicions. I prefer decked, always felt like the best compromise. Plus I hate that thing where the other strings go out of pitch if you bend one of them :-)
I play one (neck-through) custom built Strat with a decked American Standard trem (4 springs) with GraphTech StringSaver saddles, it sounds great. The pickups come from a DeLuxe Strat Plus from the late 1980s/early 1990s.
Last year I bought a Plus with a blocked trem and I got that one floating again together with my ex-brother-in-law, who is a Hank Marvin style player. We started doing that with a rare Ibanez Roadster RS350, which I liked more since then and later we did the Plus.
I have been playing decked for DECADES, mainly because it looked right.
I still have one used Cort S2900 with a BLOCKED Wilkinson VS-50IIK, that came from a professional rhythm guitarist. With professional I mean that he bought a house from the money earned with touring through Germany etc.
I find that quite an achievement for a RHYTHM guitarist.
I think it's still in there... 1st because I think that he knew what he was doing and 2nd because it's kind of STUCK...
So, what you should do with the trem depends on the FUNCTIONALITY that you need for a certain gig. If you are going to play Shadows and Ventures stuff, use the floating trem. Are you playing RHYTHM only, block it.
And if you need to play both, you can consider DECKED.
Or you can use more than one guitars on stage of course.
Hardtail Strats don't exist for nothing.
Great! Would love to see 2-point trem vs vintage style.
I think the actual physics are the opposite of your description. It's not that the vibrations are transmitted to the body, it's that there is no energy wasted microscopically moving the trem system around when it is rigidly mounted. The density and mass of the body keeps it from vibrating much. In other words, more energy stays in the strings because less is transmitted elsewhere.
Mark Haury I was thinking the same thing.
That's right. There is still some energy lost in the body, we can feel it vibrating, but this is either constant or the difference between configurations is less than what the vibrato system steals when it vibrates.
It could also explain why a heavier block in the system makes a difference: more inertia leads to less energy being transmitted to it.
Mark Haury hey just cuz Stephen hawking passed doesn’t give you runner up status...just kidding...physics is a tricky subject best left out of guitars...it’s in the hands and the soul...check out John5 playing a hello kitty acoustic number...he turns turns into a hello lion
I want a Hello Lion guitar!
Hi!
I agree that the movement of the trem can certainly be a culprit sucking up some of the string's energy.
I'm not so sure that more energy stays in the strings as it will either be dissipated in the trem system or the guitar body / neck (you can't just keep it in the strings).
I do, however, also think that the vibration of the guitar's body and neck does help sustain. It's not just a wasteful dissipation as some think.
It's like how playing one note on the 6th string sets all the strings in motion through vibration, or a simple "knock or tap" on the body will start all the strings ringing.
The body vibrating certainly gives some amount (however small) back to the note/chord being played ☺
Great video (as ALWAYS )! Darrell, I'd like to take a second to say THANK YOU SO MUCH for all the great fun, interesting and informative content that you and the other TH-camres put out. Even though I've been playing for well over 50 years and know a lot, I'm constantly learning new things and being reminded of things that I may have forgotten about along the way. I'm turning 65 in June and I'm so thankful that I can still sing, write and play to a professional level. And especially that I'm still learning and growing daily, Thanks in part to you and the TH-cam music community.
Thank you! 5:10 yes, as you so kindly put, this is excellent to observe what actually happens vs. legend/myth/folklore. Cheers!
I liked Decked best, it's a compromise but it had the best of both extremes that blocked and floating offered. If all I cared about was sustain, I'd probably play a hard tail, string through, probably with a set or neck through. Strats have a distinct sound all of their own, I liked the deck because it was a bit thicker sounding than floating while blocked seemed to dampen much of the sympathetic vibrations and airyness I expect from the combinations of floating with strings.
My vintage style strat has been decked for a while and I was thinking of blocking as something to do while bored this weekend. I think you convinced me to leave it alone. After all I have a CU24 and HSH RG both with floyd rose for floating and a les paul and Zach Myers and Ibanez SZ for fixed bridged.
Great job on these videos.
Professor Braun an excellent study of sustainability and the side by sides sped up were a great way to compare, thanks I really learned the differences. Rock on!!!
stkbkr1 honorary Juliard PhD
To properly “deck” the bridge you need to also tighten down the six bridge plate screws and then raise and realign the saddles according to radius. This will place the bridge plate securely against the body and transfer the energy accordingly.
This causes the bridge to raise at the back. I've fixed alot of Strats, where the owner cranked down the 6 bridge screws and wondered why their bridge is jacked up. You're supposed to screw them down all the way, then back off until they are just touching the plate.
My 2016 american standard, master volume with treble bleed, v mod pickups, has the pop in trem arm with the 2 pin trem system. Therefore no need to worry about the 6 bridge plate screws. I will say the strings height is perfectly setup in the "arc" like shape of the classic 9.5 fretboard radius. Now I didn't set it up that way other than adjusting the anchor screws inside the body deeper in to re deck the bridge after a string change rose the bridge to floating. (Previous owner used Ernie super slinky strings, I use light gauge nano or polyweb elixir strings which must have a decent enough higher string tension to have pulled the bridge up to floating status. But after screwing the anchor screws just a few turns further in, it resolved and fixed that issue easily. And I've considered refloating it for gentle and minute vibrato flutters, but I just can't bring myself to do it as I honestly feel like I prefer it decked the most by far. I play mostly in an aggressive and hard blues style think philip sayce and eric gales with a sprinkle of srv and mayer, and usually only letting off the dynamics for lenny style and sounding type of playing when the mood of what I'm playing calls for it. Robin trower would be the other blues sounding style I like playing. Aside from that, I also am drawn to psychedelic rock like liquify and indie styles like yuuf. Also recently Ariel posen has really caught my attention. I'd really like to get a magneto sonnet raw dawg 2 or 3.preferably a 2. But I've been eyeing a 3 priced very well. Also I have a cheap ibanez with really good sounding pickups in it(no idea what kind wish I knew, need to open it up to find out someday) but I call it "the beater" it's seen some wear and very hard aggressive playing, I can always float up the bridge on it since it has a 2 pin ibanez tremolo system if I need something floated. Cause that reminds me, I usually always play my strat in e flat tuning instead of standard therefore lessening the tension.
I just take the screws holding the springs down and tighten them all the way down and tighten the 6 screws on the bridge down so it's just perfectly flat. Really helped with keeping it in tune. Take a block of wood and shove it in there as well and it's fine. The sustain isn't interesting to me, but staying in tune is.
I think ill block too much hassel constantly adjusting block height tonallity etc... What the hell...Clapton chose to do it to his guitar ?
Great video Darrell!! I love when you bust out your white American Strat!! This was super informative but I know nothing will make me change my floated Strat bridge! I know sustain could be better but the expressive nature of the float is too good to give up!!
GR00VYGH0ULIE I like the creamy turquoise pickguard g&l or is it black...I love those g&l bridges they’re built like apocalypse survival gear
I bought my first strat in 2000, and I didn’t know about sustain discussions for quite awhile because the things I learned about strats was all print in magazines, I didn’t know guitar resources online. But I can look back and say I didn’t know what I was missing as the guitar sustained plenty for pretty much everything I tried. With those 5 guitars I just didn’t have sustain problems. And with each, 4 American 1 Mexican, I also have not had the amount of problems guys say when using it. My newest is an American Pro and once again no problem. I sincerely believe it can all be avoided when a strat is properly set up. Not just string height relief. Everything done properly. I hope that guys and gals who want or buy a strat find one and really enjoy it. Proper adjustment by a GOOD luthier can really go far.
Nice to see what you already know confirmed without immediately being told what's best and you're doing it all wrong! Thanks fella very informative as always.
Incredible video! Answered ALL my questions about why some choose to modify how these guitars come from the factory. I have played an acoustic guitar for about 50 years. But, I have recently become interested in playing more bluesy, bendy tunes. I was fortunate to score a nice MIM Strat at a very fair price, but I am still learning how it works. It was missing the whammy bar and I did not understand why. Turns out it has been decked. My point is... THANKS for the explanation on this. I may now cut a nice piece of tone wood and block it. I like the idea of sustain. Or I may just leave it alone for now.
Great editing work in the sustain test 😊
Thanks Brian!
I had no idea these terms existed and have not adjusted one part of my Stratocaster in the 4 months I've played guitar. I have used the tuners to stay in tune. The guy at the guitar shop "setup" my guitar and I have no idea what that entails. I had to watch this video a few times to understand what was going on. Darrell, you must be a great and patient teacher to make a video like this.
Shawn P. Thanks so much 😉 I will take your advice, but I have to learn one thing at a time, for instance the setup will be my first focus. I also plan to buy a Floyd Rose because of Darrell's last video. I can't keep my Strat in tune and I heard that is a common complaint with Standard Strats. I will have a professional perform the installation. My guitar teacher gives me a lot of homework and I feel like I would learn more by staying in tune. And yes, despite the tuning issues, I ❤ my guitar and I will try to hold onto it, first love and all that jazz😍
You're correct about which gives best sustain - thanks for making the comparison video. But you're incorrect about the reason/theory. The body doesn't cause some "positive feedback loop" that feeds energy back into the strings. Blocking simply prevents the bridge from flexing and wasting the strings energy. If the bridge can move/flex (even decked) because of the springs, some of the string's energy will be wasted -- so blocking prevents the bridge from moving and wasting energy.
I just blocked my trem on my Squier Strat a few days ago. Seeing your results confirms my thoughts. As usual you are spot on.
Nice work, I think u are the first who open this theme in video at very high lvl of quality and details. Saved this video, as the same video about sustain length demands from deck width
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed the video 👍
Fascinating video here! I've always had my strats decked, but I will certainly be trying out Blocked! Decked has always worked for me, especially in my MIM Hendrix strat, plus I just never use the trem so the stability is worth more to me.
block had so good sustain, thank you Darrell :)
We have to remember, though, that even the most subtle compressor would make the floating trem out-sustain the blocked one. So if you like a particular configuration but aren't happy with your sustain, then perhaps a compressor might be the ticket.
👍The right compressor settings can work wonders!
I agree. IMHO, sustain isn't really the factor for choosing whether or not you should do this. it's more about functionality. If you dont use a wammy bar, then you should deck it, just for functional purposes. locking tuners on a decked strat is the way to go. you can always get a cheap compressor if you trying to get good clean sustain tones.
@@READERSENPAII with you all the way
You lose dynamics the more you compress the signal.
How much sustain do you really need? Not all that much in reality.
Very interesting comparison. Not too surprised by the results. Most people have theories of why this or that sounds better or worse but don't actually put in the effort to A/B them. Well done, great video!
For me I blocked mine. It was t a sustain thing it was a intonation thing. I’m not doing a lot of work on the bar. Rarely use it honestly. For me it made sense. Tuning stability seems better with the bridge locked down to the body. I used to float the bridge just a tad so I could use my palm not ever them trem bar to move it but I really don’t do that now
That was very illuminating! I have had my Strats decked for some years but I'm going to block them after seeing this video. Works for Clapton.
Next video I would like to see sustain tests using different types of wood.
(Kidding...).
😄 👍That sounds too intense even for me!
I'm going to use cedar to keep the moths out of my trem spring cavity
Violin makers use a dowel of wood to join the top to the back - a sound post, I think.
My violin repairer said that he prefers a sound post with seven growth rings in it. Eight made the wood too hard, and sound more brittle.
He also set the sound post so that the grain ran at a right angle to the grain of the top.
Great test. From my own experience, my Eric Clapton Strat is blocked. Great sustain. For my Stratocaster Dlx Plus, which I use for modern Christian music, I float the bridge, using 5 springs and float bridge parallel to the body. This gives me very good control and allows me to return to pitch better. For Christian music, I play a lot of shimmering notes and chords. While I'm a fan of Michael Casswell, Ian Thornley, Andy Summers, and Jeff Beck, sadly, I don't play like they do.
Sweet guitars!
I play also in Church and yeah, i use floating,i think i get a little sustain loss, if i can hear it 😅
part of the magic in strat sound is the resonance of the trem springs - float maximizes this nuance. u can also play around with different springs to color that resonance. thanks db great as always!
Glad to help!
Great idea 👍
Darrell Braun Guitar compare sustain strat to tele? thx☺
That would be interesting ☺👍
A superb, concise and intelligent study. I did feel bad for that poor guy on the right in the tests though, he looked pretty miserable. I suggest a therapy dog to cheer him up.
Potentially there is so much scientific analysis that could be done on this. With my (very, very beginner) guitarist's hat on it's not interesting because your concise summary at the end is all that matters. With my physicist's hat on however I would love to see someone doing a physics degree choose as their final year project the study of the resonance properties of floating vs blocked (as the two boundary cases) across the entire guitar system. From a physics point of view one thing that occurs to me is that in coupling the bridge more tightly to the body any energy transfer from the strings to the body is all happening in that one specific area on the body which, although I can't be bothered to think it through any further than that, might be significant in explaining why in what is essentially a closed system as far as energy is concerned the sustain improves with increasing levels of string to body coupling.
Your experiment supports one almost universal non-physics law. If you want maximum sustain you need to forsake the trem capability. If you want trem capability you need to compromise on sustain - i.e. you can't get something for nothing (there's no such thing as a free lunch).
Thanks for going through the process of making this comparison, the lack of external differentiating factors further helps to the more accurate results (plus your paused, melodic characteristic way of playing really helps seeing these factors in effect!) - this being said, I'm a long floating trem guy. I don't use it to the extreme with Eddie Van Halen style dropbombs and such, but some of my favorite and most influential guitar idols such as David Gilmour and João Cabeleira (Portuguese lead guitar player of Xutos e Pontapés) use them often to add some dynamics to the sound, and so do I like too. My main guitar is Floyd Rose-equipped so the Strat trem can't be a bigger pain in the ass, plus I don't think the tonal and sustain differences to be that meaningful to justify removing a key feature of a Strat. Since I study musical theory, changing tuning is quite impractical as it messes up scale patterns and whatnot given my still limited knowledge degree, plus most of favorite types of music are either played in Standard tuning or can be easily transposed. Still, quite a neat video to consider for a possible future Strat purchase! ;)
This was great, Darrell (as usual) and thank you for the detailed comparison. Just bought a Pawncaster (2010 Squier Strat Affinity made in Indonesia) project guitar for $35. This info is just what I wanted to validate my choice. You saved me (and a lot of others) a bunch of looking and testing. So thanks much! I'm accustomed to bends (read that as I never properly learned to use the tremolo bar effectively) so I deck my bridge. But I guess I am going to start carving a sustain block. I had no idea you could make that big a difference on sustain using this method.Thanks again!
Congratulations on the project guitar (great price!)
I'm always glad to help ☺
Iv come back to this video after changing my ways in the last couple of years. I used to deck my trem purely for tuning stability but now iv learnt out how to float a trem properly and will never look back.
The tone with it floating is next to none.
Play a bent note with an unbent one on a floating trem... not so good.
@@joeltunnah its definitely a thing but iv just learnt over the years to also slightly bend the ‘non’ bent string when doing double stops to keep them both in tune
I hate Strats that don’t have floating bridges. It’s like having a Ferrari with an automatic transmission
If you are 'blocking' your guitar, you need to use a solid hardwood such as beech or better still alder. If you use a softwood such as pine you may lose the solid connection between the bridge and body. Even better, get a block of aluminium in there! If you want to float your bridge and still have sustain, get a solid brass version of the bridge which almost fills the bridge space, just allowing the movement you want. The mass of the bridge block will do the same as blocking but will not affect your ability to tremolo.
Is there a resource for aftermarket metal blocks like this?
I filled up the entire trem cavity with wood and installed hard-tail. Also made the whole body thinner. It is the most comfortable thing to play and no more floating non-sense.
To me, what matters most is that decked and blocked have the highest action. It just feels and plays better to me when I have it like that. Mine is currently decked because I use it sometimes, but I really felt better after switching. Especially because I use Drop D sometimes so that I can play with my violin easier (to anyone who plays a violin family instrument, both D major and D minor are some of the easiest keys [you learn D major first]), which is fun. I feel like decked is the best for me, but I respect everyone’s opinions on what is best for them, but recommend that everyone experiments first.
Doesn't floating raise the action? I mean the bridge is in the air
String height has nothing at all to do with trem floating vs decked etc. Action is fully adjustable in any of the three trem configurations.
Thank you! You answered more questions than I had but I am so glad I came here. Wonderful information!
If you set the Strat to float and use the bar often (Jeff Beckish) and lube the pressure and pinch points and can learn the art of keeping in tune by using movements on the term arm it becomes quite fun but it took me awhile , but I like that style. Strats rock no matter how you like to play them!
Another very useful and informative video from Darrell; many thanks. Mine was decked, but I have just changed it to blocked guided by this video. Guitar sounds great, good sustain and solid tuning 👍
Always an amazing video by Darrell! Not only your info was very PhD graded, I couldn’t lay away my eyes off your great (and proof tested) collection of guitars 🎸 as a background. Mainly interested in your Imperial At-At tho!
😄 Thanks Pablo!
Awesome experiment! Thank you very much for taking the time!
When something is vibrating, anything that damps that vibration, such as soft wood, springs, or other soft or easily moved material in contact with the strings, will reduce sustain by robbing the strings of energy. That’s probably why Telecasters sustain so much better than most Strats. Hard, dense wood, no tremolo, and good, hard saddle and nut material will give the best sustain. If that really means anything.
This video is the best I've seen to see the distinction of the different tones each one gives you.... blocked and decked the best sounding... floating too plinky
Great comparison Darrell! Thanks for sharing. Off to go try on my Strats :)
Thanks for the vid. Very explanative and not terribly long.
For my personal experience, I like to have my guitar decked (or flushed) mostly because it makes me bend notes easier than having a woodblock in the tremolo bridge and it still stays in tune and I havent seen the bridge floating while bending notes (as long as you add 2 or 3 springs which I havent done that, but I have tightened those screws not completely but fair enough) But great comparison Darrell! 👍
Thanks Bestiny!
An added benefit of a blocked trem is that the bridge will stay in tune while bending, an essential element of playing in tune double stop bends or bending one string while holding a fixed note on another.
I’ve had my strats in all 3 configurations for different reasons over the years. Sustain was never a consideration. My concerns were tuning stability, how I was going to use the trem, and double stop bends being in tune. My trem is currently floating; I’m thinking about decking.
Me too!
It's a year later, and I'm still floating and thinking about switching to decked. Still nothing to do with sustain, as I don't have a sustain problem with it floating. My problem is that I like doing double stop bends and I'm tired of them being out of tune. I know I'll be sacrificing the expressiveness of the floating trem, but at least right now that seems less important to me than the double stop bends.
The mass of body and neck and their „harmony“ vibrating kinda provide a micro- or pico-seconds delayed movement referred to the stringmovement. That delayed wood-vibration is kinda „feeding“ back to the ongoing stringvibration, and also colouring the timbre of the notes. Its like you hold a pendulum with your hand and move your hand slightly counter wise to the swing.
Thank you Darell, for the lot of work and effort put in these kind of tests!! You are enlightening us👌🏼👍🏼💪🏼😀
Thanks Darrell for the useful post. In my tests, I've found that putting anything against the tremolo block negatively changes the tone of my Strat.
I came up with a quick way one can quickly test "Decking" a floating bridge with a minimum amount of hassle. The gap at the back of the bridge is typically about 2-2.5mm thick. A popsicle stick is about 2mm thick.
Here's what I did:
1. Trim a popsicle stick to match width of the bridge (E to e).
2. Bevel the popsicle stick so it matches the wedge shaped gap at the back of the bridge.
3. Put a piece of double-sided tape on the top of the guitar in the space under the bridge.
4. Place the wedge-shaped popsicle stick on the tape under the back of the bridge.
5. If the wedge is not fitting snug against the bottom of the bridge, there are two easy fixes.
a. Temporarily add a spring to your Tremolo Claw.
b. Or, add a thin piece of cardboard, paper, or wood to the popsicle wedge.
6. You might need to tune your guitar a little, but you'll get a pretty good idea as to how Decking the bridge will sound.
Note: An advantage of using the double sided tape is that you can quickly take off the popsicle stick and try some other materials. I also tried aluminum, bone, and pick guard plastic. It only takes seconds to change materials, so you can get a good idea as to what works best on your guitar. Also the double-sided tape holds the wedge in place, so you can still dive bomb your tremolo bar. You now have a "Floating-deck Tremolo Bar."
And one note of caution: When removing the tape, roll it from one side to the other. Do NOT pull it straight up, as you don't want to pull up any finish/paint.
Perfect...just what I needed. Going to block my new Fender Player Plus as I don't use the wammy at all..........great job!!!
floating bridge like the old 6 screws fender works perfect with the setup of the time it begins to be manufactured! Meaning 5 springs with set of 12 / 51 with third wound sustain is more, with some reverby kind of effect from the springs! My partscaster 50's still in tune since the day I put the strings on. The downside is the very strong high strings but other than that works very fine ( the bridge is vintage spec kluson tv10 )
test starts 4:15
another interesting and informative video Darrell, love it man thanks
hi, i have a question about decked tremolo. Do you have to do any calibration to your guitar if you decide to change your floating system to decked?
I am not sure about the adjustements that i have to do. I want to try decked option
I'm about to go from floating to decked bridge also. I think you may need to change the action or pickup height
My Fender American Strat has a floating bridge, and it literally never goes out of tune. I do not know why other than maybe the nut is perfect, but that’s the main reason I’ll never let it go, that and it has sentimental value to me as well. It was a graduation gift to myself for graduating college with my bachelors in psychology. Not sure what my gift to myself will be when I get my masters or Ph.D, maybe a car? Lol. Anyway I love this strat and it never shifts tuning even with a floating bridge. Guess I got lucky. I do have the locking tuners on it, but that’s for easy string changes. It still stayed in tune without them.
Great job, as usual. I was considering buying tremolo stoppers for my 3 strats so this is a timely video for me. With the stoppers you can still use the whammy bar, but only push down, not pull up. It returns to a fixed stop when released, not floating, so tuning returns to the same point. It also provides a physical connection between the block and the body, although it's a small contact area. It looks like a good compromise to me. Do you have any thoughts on them?
Cool. I'll have to check them out
My old (20 years) MIM strat came with the trem decked. Floating the trem and adding two black springs to the 3 stock chrome ones completely fixed a really bad tuning stability problem and made a huge improvement in tone; plus, the using the floating trem sounds much better than the decked setup. I don't like the muddy sound of too much amp gain, but a good compressor gets all the sustain I need.
I was able to put .100 stir stick piece as stop block on spring side. Trem works to lower tension only. Sustain way up. Tightened action and tuning.
What an excellent video! Scientific and clear. Bravo!
Great video and fantastic solos!
Sounds like I need 3 strats....... one each way!
Glenn Gardin ohh I like that...I got 2 so far but seldom use the floating...in haven found the right spring tension...even straight fender brand...maybe I’ll hybrid then...hey it’s done with strings
I was thinking the same thing! 1 each way in different colors with slightly different pickup configurations. At least that's what I'm gonna tell my wife 😉🎸😎 Rock on Professor Braun!
Good luck! 😉
That's the spirit
I only need one i already got 2
I don't think floating or decked has any appreciable effect on sustain. I've played decked and floating Fender trems for years. To me, the difference is that floating trems need to be adjusted more when using different strings or dive bombing a lot, while decked or blocked are pretty stable. I prefer my Strat decked.
I can understand having a floating bridge for versitility (this is my choice of setup) or a decked bridge to help with tuning stability. To me having a blocked bridge is totally stupid. It means that there is no use having the trem in the first place. You would have been better off getting a fixed bridge. Essentially you are paying for something and then making it totally redundant.
So I bought a Floyd Rose black bridge for my black USA strat 2004 but have so far chickened out of putting it on. Probably because I realized that I'd have to reset the whole guitar up after. Should I take it into the shop & get ripped again?
I decked my 84 MIJ strat with a Tremolo 1 bridge (which I hated) against some stainless steel washers to keep the bridge level. Then, added springs and pulled them in to hold the washers tight. The sound difference was phenomenal!
Great vid. Does the block eliminate the problem where strings you're holding while bending another drop slightly in pitch, creating a jarring, out of tune effect?
Yes.
Thanks brother, this'll stir up the comments I think!
Anytime! ☺
Deciding factor should always be on what songs you play. I have recently blocked one of my Ibanez prestige guitars and left the other one floating so I cna use one for drop tuning or for live gigs in case I don't panic when a string breaks, and I have the other for tremolo uses for thst modern rock and metal sound. Best of both worlds and complimenting each other nicely.
I've always decked mine. Wow I'm going to try blocking and see what it does. Awesome video, thanks.
Anytime! ☺
Let me know if you notice a difference!
@@DarrellBraunGuitar It only took me a YEAR to do this and get back to you. I bought a couple of those really cheap Floyd Rose trems from Aliexpress and while they're not bad, I had a bad time of getting them to return to center when you used the trem. I have a feeling it's because the metal they're made of isn't exactly the best quality... so I blocked them both. O M G the difference in tone it made. Now I'm on a quest to block the rest of my guitars. LOL.
Love this video and the information you have presented. Thanks!
Very informative video. I am going to continue operating my Stratocaster the way it came from the factory. Good enough for Fender good enough for me.
Even on a floating bridge, damping the springs withe rolled tissues fed inside the coil and in between each spring can reduce sound transmission losses
Which gives more bounce (sustain): dribbling a basketball on a concrete sidewalk (blocked), on a wooden basketball floor (decked) or on a trampoline (floating)? If you want more bounce from the ball (i.e., vibration from the string), then the answer is simple. You want as stiff of a guitar setup as possible. The ideal configuration for me would be a string-through design, or a hard tail (although to me, a hard tail doesn't even feel as good as a string-through).
Yes, obviously. I was going to make that point, but your basketball analogy is simple and straightforward.
Drum & Strum let me see rubber and wood vs metal and wood...fail...”no Strat for you!” Next
I don't think that's right, because that would mean that you would get a BETTER result if you would block the trem with rubber or silicone. IMO feeding the vibrations back via the bridge and the nut and anything in between contributes to the total amount of sustain.
I think that the pivot points contribute to the sustain, and I think the springs and the claw and its two screws do too. The point is: it's so LITTLE material compared to what happens in a hardtail Strat. There is a LACK of body contact. The WOODEN BLOCK compensates for that lack, by creating a direct resonating contact between the tremolo-block and the body. If that block would be made from soft rubber or silicone you would LOOSE sustain IMO.
Darrell, test of BLOCK materials please!
WOOD vs METAL (brass) vs soft rubber/silicone.
Scarlette Punk the principle remains true even though the material choices are exaggerated.
Observe for example the rebound of a metal ball bearing (and a BIG one it's more fun) on various densities of wood, let's say Spruce vs. Maple. Tight and dense gives more rebound.
Whether or not that is one wants to hear becomes a subjective matter of course.
Basketballs may sound great on a court but supposedly make for a crappy guitar tone.
🏀Hell to keep in tune for sure.
I heard Block, Decked & Float, LLC are the sheisters handling Gibson's restructuring. d;D
they are an offshoot of Do-we Cheat'em and Howe
LOL!! Awesome, had a good laugh with that one.
Appropriately it sounds like the guys doing Gibbys fix and their own bowel descriptions
The problem with saying the floating trem is isolating the strings is that the bridge springs still act as a damper. But i still do subscribe to theory 1. the problem is its hard to stop transmitting energy to the body. the reason certain woods have more sustain or tone than other is not the reason that tonewood people think it does. heavier woods have tighter grain and reflect the vibrations back to the strings at the bridge rather than absorb them. in the case of the floating trem vs blocked, the floating trem is transferring its energy to the springs (you can even hear it on strats) and the blocked trem gives a much more stable surface for the bridge to reflect the vibrations back to the strings
Congratulations my friend.
You are The Mith Buster Guitar
Thanks!
It was a lot of fun to put together ☺
Ulisses Scarparo right finally done right and he was having fun...guitars are suppose to be fun right...music is a passionate art form
Hi Darrell thanks very much for all your great Video's and your great Advice cheers 😊👍👍
Clapton figured this out when he blocked Brownie. If your style doesn't require a trem, blocking the Strat bridge is a no-brainer.
Thanks for the test!
Once again, great video! Thanks Darrell! Am I correct in interpreting the results that even though the blocked trem gives the longest sustain, the floating version has about 10% less sustain? If that's the case, I'd prefer losing a bit of sustain in order to have the full expressiveness of the floating version. Cheers!
Thanks!
It varied from about 30% to10% less sustain.
That is my main choice as well 👍
Right! I can totally live with 10% to 30% less sustain on clean. If needed, you can always add a bit of compression on a pedal. Useful stuff! Thanks again, Darrell! Cheers!
I block mine off with pennies and yes loads of sustain.......... interesting vid! TY
How do you do it? Glue?
Very informative, Darrell. As an experienced player, I really don't care about the sustain factor, I just care about the best way to have some occasional tremelo, going down in pitch is fine, with having the guitar holding tune being the most important factor. Thanks.
I do not even pay attention to the 3 words since I do NOT care about a tremolo. So I get the bridge parallel over the body when strung up to 1/2 tone low (makes it easier to sing) and insert a soft wood block between the tremolo block (usually pot metal) and the rear of the guitar. The wooden block is usually 15MM 'deep' and spans only about the middle 2 springs (I install 2 springs only... on either side of the center of the claw where a ground wire is generally soldered). So the bridge is always floating parallel to the top of the guitar and cannot move up or down when the guitar is at 1/2 step low or regular pitch. .
Hi. Congratulations on your channel. I recently blocked my Stratocaster with a wooden block in the back. Do you think it is advisable to insert another block in the front? Some friends say it's half the work. Thnks friend
Another option.... replace. I have Vega Trems on my two Strats. A world of difference. Night and day, total stability, bend up, bend down. A great alternative to the Floyd. No lock nut required, but locking tuners and nut sauce on the nut andyou are good to go.
What about installing a bridge on the stratocaster the way a telecaster is set up?
Moving the tremolo you can prolong any note as long as you want and is much more satisfying 😆 so just a tremsetter and no complains !
Nice intuitive video!
Thanks DK!
Well done. Great explanation. Simple and concise
Hi mate, great video! Thanks so much. One question: using 5 RAW vintage springs Is it recomended using Deck bridge set up or floating? And why?
I am not a fan of Tremolo; however, I really like the sound from Stratocaster, if I purchase it, I will just block the tremolo by putting 5 springs.
Sustain is not equal to tone. I font use the trem much, but I keep my American Standard trem floating because it sounds awesome that way. It is almost like a touch of built in reverb.
Hi Darrel! Great vid. This convo is about sustain but did you notice a difference in feel between the 3 different trem positions? I’ve always felt saddle angle effects the stiff or loose feel of a guitar. I have a new Ultra decked at the moment but it’s a bit stiff, I may go back to a float although it’s not my jam. Any observations on your end?
Well all in all it all depends on your playing style/genre you are playing. Blocked bridge gives you tunning stability when a floating bridge is very versatile...etc. So it's good all three, in my opinion.
I'm a believer in the 2-point Tremolo which only one of my 4 Strats has...my Daphne Blue MOD Shop beauty. The other 3 have the 6 screw Trems and do not have the same sustain (even my beloved Surf Green '57 AVRI can't match the sustain of the MOD Strat). I learned so much from this video and it will be a go to guide for Trem settings....thanks Darrell! Maybe the next video will address guitar color obsession.
Constable 1976 Blonde tele black binding...I’d sell my soul and soles
Scarlette Punk Thank you!! It's nice to know I'm not the only one with a color fixation. Daphne Blue and Surf Green Strats, I own 4 and want more, it's ridiculous!
Shawn P. What's your favorite guitar hue to obsess over?
Shawn P. I have two Daphne Blue beauties that I talk endlessly about. A Fender MOD Shop Stratocaster with Seymour Duncan SSL-5/SSL-5 in the neck/Middle and a JB Jr in the Bridge. And a 50's Classic Series Strat with Seymour Duncan SSL-1s in every position. And I still want to buy a 2007 Daphne Blue Custom Classic Strat, but I can't justify a 3rd guitar over $1500.00. I've only seen orange on Charvels and Jacksons, a unique, but cool color choice.
Very Informative. Love your content. I just purchased a Suhr 2014 with a Super Expressive Floating Trem-System. OMG = Never enjoyed playing so much, and the Tuning stability is ridiculous. Different Beast with the Gotoh 510. One Love from NYC.
Here's my theory on strats. The cavity inside is robbing a lot of acoustic energy. If you place your ear on the body, you can hear the resonation throughout the metal block inside. It's absolutely shrill. No wonder tele's sound great!
And that's why I cut a big brass pipe ring in half, and tapped it tight into the space between the tremolo block and the wood of the body. Works especially well for the zinc blocks, and the most noticeable for third and fourth strings.
have no idea if other guitars can do this but i didnt expect that its super cool
Awesome test! Realistically I don’t care too much about sustain, I rather have the Trem floating on my strat.
Pablo Romero agreed however how do you balance tuning stability and ability to bend with a floating trem?
Thanks Daryl. Just got my first strat and this helped. Going with decked until I get some strat legs and get used to the trem :)
Great Video Darrel, I Wasn't Surprised Relay With The Results, But A Great Way To Show The Differences, Like You I Like My Trem Floating, Each To There Own Thankk You For Showing This As Im Sure It Will Help People Decide On What they Like Best, Cheers Bro
Thanks so much!
I use 3 piles of 1p coins superglued together instead of wood. The springs are still in for grounding. Piece of foam over the lot and the cover back on.
Greetings from Utah. Very helpful! Thank you.
Ok, so I tried blocking the trem of my EJ strat, this is the maple neck version. I tried redwood and cherry, the redwood really damped much of the guitars overtones, really changing the overall sound of the guitar. That is not too surprising as redwood is pretty soft. The cherry also dampened the guitars overtones/acoustic output and was usable but the guitar has much more sustain/tone/overtones/ring with the guitar setup with the trem floating. Maybe with a block made of alder the results would mirror yours.