Here's why : Too many have little road sense, arrogantly ignoring normal road rules and they do fast, unexpected things that set up accidents. Many /most do not drive cars so have limited understanding of how difficult they are to see, especially in rain and dark. Many compound difficulties by not having visual markers on themselves or bike. Too many possess arrogant attitudes like an out of control toddler that they should get to do whatever they like but still turn round and blame the car driver for what happened. Their behaviour can set up accidents in a chain effect that go way beyond just themselves and bodywork damage to the immediate car. If you try to call out their behaviour or even try to give life saving advice you are often met by the middle finger and/or swears. A significant portion of cyclists delude themselves ideologically that they are being morally superior by avoiding car use when in fact those beliefs are highly arguable and in any case many of those just really cycle for economic reasons and tac on false virtue as a feel-good. A lot of them are commie types or green weirdos ( another form of commie in my opinion ). Bad cyclist behaviour is also a menace to pedestrians and they are regarded with the same kind of toddler arrogance by many cyclists. The blind /partially sighted are at risk especially. When it comes to group cycling on cuntry roads, mygod that can really take the biscuit for arrogance. You know what I'm talking about. You know everything here that I'm taking about. Many, not all, I know that - before you say. Also, before you say I don't know what its like from the other way round - actually I have cycled most of my life on racers and off road bikes ( till I got too fat and useless , sad I know ). I obey the rules, I don't do unexpected things, I don't ride on pavements unless its a cycle way, I don't flip off drivers, I keep myself visible.
I could challenge everypoint here - but as an example of the sort of mentality that should not be driving two tons of steel at speed on any road.... Dan
@@vintagevelos9517 Silly. Mixing streams of traffic in the same space where the vulnerable element does vastly dissimilar speed and has vastly less visibility, means that, the user of that has to be aware of their vulnerability and NOT behave stupidly. You answer ignores reality. I am a careful driver and a cyclist (though not recently ). To say I should not be driving my two tons ( for telling the obvious truth ) is so arrogant and silly, but sadly quite typical. As I say, my starting position here is that cycles are the odd thing out on the road, the one that is so dissimilar to the rest of the traffic stream. Riders of cycles very often seem to have an inflated sense of their importance and an indifference to the reality of their vulnerability. If they cycled responsibly most problems would be avoided and I am guessing that you do by the way. Unfortunately many do not. I am all for separating streams of traffic by the way e.g. trams in walled off runs, roads as biased for vehicular use and others beware, plus cycle and walking spaces built into the system where possible. Where there is sharing however, its the bike riders who do need to realise THEY are the odd thing out, the traffic stream that is dissimilar to the others, with unique vulnerability. Vehicle drivers being required to allow space while passing is a sensible thing and should be enforced. Act accord to reality, take better responsibility for your actions ( not you ) and not try to make out vehicles drivers presence there is some sort of outrage against them and the planet. Everything I said in this and my initial reply is the truth. A lot of cyclists live in la la land.
@@Fat_Cat_747 I guess there's no way to find common ground. As with everything today it's trench warfare. I'll just say as I always do...the stats don't lie.
It sounds as though you have a very limited view of cyclists. Your opinions have some validity where a small number of sports cyclists or irresponsible
I cycle in the UK most days of the week. A lot of people in cars hate me and want me to die. People are really angry, always in a rush, impatient. Best advice i have learned let them pass, do not engage if they hurl abuse just let it go and keep safe
I might have done well to mention, the town I live in and spend most days cycling [in the Midlands] is full of pikeys. When I cycle further afield [for instance to the peak district which is more affluent with a higher demographic], people are less aggressive, more relaxed and overall its a nicer place to exist and get about [in particular on a bike]
I second the call to avoid confrontation, coming from South Africa I can tell you from personal experience that it can lead to violence or worse very quickly and unpredictably. We are completely unprotected and ALWAYS come off worse.
Here in the Netherlands there are 18 million people, 9 million cars and 24 million bicycles. Every motorist also rides a bicycle, which makes a big difference. And we have as many cycle paths as motorways.
@@krishnan-resurrection714 This is just bollocks. There were fewer cars in the 60s, but there was never any decent cycling infrastructure, and what's Bengali culture got to do with the price of fish?
Since you mentioned motorways, comparing a map of the Dutch motorway network with the UK motorway network, you see that many parts of the UK don't have motorways at all, especially for moving around within the cities. The main traffic is often on a narrow 30mph surface road with lots of roundabouts, pedestrian crossings, and only one lane per direction that has to be shared by cars, bikes and public transport. This kind of road works fine as a quiet residential road but in the UK, it's typically also the backbone of a city's road network. This can make longer journeys stressful for car drivers, cyclists and pedestrians alike.
On a club ride 6 of us riding single file were beeped at angrily by a passing driver. We caught up with him at the junction where he wound down the window to tell us to f*ck off!. There are a lot of idiots driving in the UK
@EdStraker720 I can cite many instances where drivers have driven recklessly around me and I'm the only cyclist on the road and I've been as far in as I could have possibly been. We've all got our stories! The fact is drivers need to know the road is not just for their use. Cyclists, motorbikes and horses have every right to be there too. Cars, imo are at the bottom of the list in order of importance, and yes I drive too.
Thought I would share a negative experience I had very recently. Was cycling downhill when a school bus pulled up at a junction and immediately merged onto the road without seeing me. I had to pull the brakes hard and almost ended up sideways. I said to the driver, " You almost killed me, mate." He responded by saying, "You will get killed sitting on that anyway!". Really made me think about the attitude some people have towards us and how the dehumanizing effect could be contributing towards the hatred we receive as cyclists.
We try and ride on gravel as much as possible now, only sharing the road with motorists as little as we can. Last summer we rode in France twice. They have long sections of separated cycle tracks, even in cities. Motorists were also considerate and courteous.
Cycling in France is a joy compared to the battle ground that is the UK. The infrastructure is far superior plus other motorists respect cyclists. It’s far safer.
Forget about educating UK road users on the dangers to cyclists, half the population are plain thick. 90% of people still don't know that a bus lane has a time on it and the amount of people who sit in the middle lane on a motorway for absolutely no reason. Absolutely no chance of these people taking anything on board.
@@independentthought3390 I suspect the percentage who are reckless passers to be smaller than that. I have only a few each season, not that they aren't more than a little terrifying.
It's not just cyclists that get the abuse. We're just the easy, vulnerable ones. Lorries, caravans, tractors. Car drivers hate them all. We're a nation of angry, entitled people.
@@grahammitchell8524 Money. It started back in the 60s I think. We started to become more affluent, more self concerned, less interested in our neighbours. The more we got, the less we cared about others. Hasn't made for happy communities has it ?
I noticed it immediately after Brexit. It was as if there had always been a silent seething group of people who wanted ‘Great’ Britain back when you not only ruled the waves but everyone, everywhere. Being nice to foreigners, walkers, cyclists, - far too much to ask!
People have always had people who want to abuse people. The only thing that is changed is the people being abused. There are some politicians who want to single out some groups to blame so that they can distract attention from the failure of the politicians. Do not spend money on roads, blame cyclists. In the UK a large number of people ride bikes for pleasure rather than to work or the shops. Therefore there are far fewer numbers, so there is less downside for demonizing them.
I'll happily pull into a layby / big verge if I feel I'm holding traffic up unnecessarily, but likewise I know to hold my space. I think it comes down to the old adage 'don't be a d*ck'. Also, completely agree on the bright colours - team kits also do look cool! Bright helmet - socks, white shoes.... Plus a daybright light on the rear at all times. In 25 years of cycling I've never had any dodgy situations - apart from when I was being the cocky one in my youth. Send out the vibes you want to get back and the world does answer.
As of writing this I have not watched your video. I am a US cyclist and just recently had my first incident of being hit by a car (scraped up but I walked away). One thing I noted was how ANGRY this guy was at me for being angry at him for being hit. Cars and car culture have made it so people driving have a sense of ownership of the road (even though it's very much a privilege). We have been told, here at least, cars have the road and pedestrians have the sidewalk. We must cross at certain intersections and we as pedestrians must look out for cars as car drivers are not responsible enough to look out for us.
Now that I've watched it I have critiques. For the whole we need LESS cars on the road not just separate car and bike lanes. What does that entail? It means making public transit between towns and cities and intercity as fully available and affordable as possible to a point it is an effective option over personal car travel. It also means ensuring businesses that are essential for people (food, clothes, office jobs, non industrial facilities) are as close to housing as possible. So it's either a train ride (for most work), a walk, or bike ride away. Make cars one option. But not the only option. NOT JUST BIKES, and StrongTowns are great channels that do better at describing and addressing the issues
@@paulschulman8131 Glad you wern`t seriously hurt - you go a long way further than I had thought about - almost a different society - I`d be happy with just a bit more of a Dutch style integration of road users in general... Dan
@@vintagevelos9517 it's a sad history (for cycling) a lot of the infrastructure cars use was meant for bicycles but the car industry did a hostile takeover and literally indoctrinated generations to believe roads are for cars and jaywalking is a crime.
No public information from a Tory government that is supported by an anti-cycling press. This emboldens anti-cycling motorists. Strangely drivers blame cyclists for slowing them down/getting in their way but don't think that all the other cars/congestion is really responsible . Let's hope for a change from a new government.
Funny because the UK has no road tax, it's emissions tax. Cyclists don't have emissions, unless they've been eating a lot of beans before the ride. Besides, ALL the taxes paid on your car aren't enough to maintain the roads, at least 40% of the costs comes from general taxation (VAT and income tax) I pay those, why should I subsidize motorists who year up the roads with their wasteful SUVs and the construction of motorways that I can't use? Yet the idea of removing a car lane for a protected cycle lane or a bus lane that would be useful to me is scoffed at, why should their "road tax" be used to subsidize me being able to get around, they are generally too thick to realize that trains, buses and bikes reduce traffic and make areas quieter and less piled and congested, so everyone wins, drivers, cyclists, pedestrians, businesses and residents!
@@5688gamble neither does Australia, instead we have rego which is for registering a vehicle, which only applies to motor vehicles, and an alarming proportion of motorists don't even pay this.
There’s no such thing as ‘road tax’, it’s called ‘vehicle excise duty.’ Language matters and using the wrong name helps bad actors reframe the argument. The vast majority of road maintenance is paid for by local councils.
I am in the US and often ride around an islsnd that is a state park. This has a one way road and a speed limit of 25 mph. in the last 6 months I have had a car drive the wrong way directly at me and force to dive of the road.Last week a guy forced me out of the road from the bike lane. He stopped his car, got out and w❤anted to fight me. I just rode away as he screamed. A women pullef out from a side street into the bike and just stopped. I hit her pretty hard. At trial she claimed it was my fault. The judge did not agree and she had no insurance. They are out there. Ride defensively.
Blimey, thats bad - I`m not too suprised but hadn`t heard to much about cycling in the US (media has it as just stunning big rides on gravel in the US), Dan
@@vintagevelos9517 I'm a roadie living in Michigan, and there are some nice roads in my neck of the woods. I don't run across that many aggressive drivers, but it can certainly ruin an otherwise nice ride when I do. Sadly these guys occasionally cause unbelievable carnage. Look up Kalamazoo bicycle crash in Wikipedia for instance. I used to ride there when I went to school, so that story hit me pretty hard.
Here are my 2 pence: I'm not a cyclist (not out of any hatred of the sport/transport, I just don't enjoy it) but I am an all year-round motorcyclist and I am also a National Observer with IAM Roadsmart, where I coach/mentor people to ride to an advanced standard, taking high inspiration from the police methodology and style of riding. Within our ride report sheets and our exam reports, there's a part about "Vulnerable Road Users", which includes cyclists. I personally feel that we as UK road users are unfortunately generally angry - I used to be guilty of that as well. We're being led by a government that doesn't care about the road infrastructure, doesn't maintain the roads and questionably uses funds - with the traffic and vehicle damage being caused by these issues, it's easiest to take it out on the closest thing to you and the thing slowing you down by a few seconds - cyclists. I see plenty of close overtakes and have reprimanded people about it; when I overtake a cyclist, irrelevant of their road position, I will use the oncoming lane/offside. I'm actually known by riding buddies to be touching the offside hedges with my pannier when passing cyclists. I don't mind having to wait to overtake or defend a cyclist. The only cyclists I mind are the same ones who would be idiots in a car or on a motorcycle - IE, running reds, riding on pavements that aren't cycle paths, tailgating cars and sometimes even me, filtering over solid lines, not giving proper signals, ETC. It's never a hatred, it's more a caution, same as I feel around BMW drivers, Audi drivers and weirdly nowadays Kia Sportage drivers
drivers are in a hurry, cyclists get in the way. media tells us (us and uk) that the roads are for cars. THEN, cyclists get bullied by aggressive drivers and are unsafe, so they start being aggressive themselves in attempt to "take back the road" making the situation worse. or that is how i feel from over here in the good ol USA. I try to remember the slower and less assertive cyclists (my loved ones) when I get angry and yell at drivers since more anger makes it less safe for them. I will try to do better tomorrow, because while i can handle my bike and move in and out of aggressive traffic, most people cant. We all need to do BETTER!
Yes indeed. I did the cause a disservice by fundamentally losing my shit and yelling and smashing on the window of the car that had scared the living shite out of me. In my defence the scare had been really bad and the anger hit like a wave with the adrenaline hit from fear… Spent the rest of the day wanting to throw up and took the bus home… Nasty. Not fun.
I'm a cyclist (usually 3-4 K miles / year) and a car driver and I can honestly say that some of the cyclists I come across while driving are giving the majority of us a bad name. Rude, unaware of what is going on around them and seemingly going out of their way to be awkward.
I live in a very popular area for cycling. I don't find cyclists rude at all. Yes, they can hold me up a little when I'm driving, but they have an EQUAL right to use the roads and it's this attitude that they are lesser road users that leads to a lot of the anger in drivers I think.
@@ChrisWhittenMusic On the other hand, I've been held up in a car on residential streets by very slow (less than 10mph) cyclists riding two abreast. I can understand more than a little frustration here. I think that's where the "as for to the right as practicable" rule should strictly apply. If I were a cop, they would have received tickets.
@@christopheroliver148 In the latest Highway Code you are supposed to overtake cyclists as if they are a car, in other words taking to the other side and f the road. I think people ride two abreast because they want to deter drivers from close passing.
I'm from the UK but now live in the cycling paradise of Netherlands, where I cycle most days. Here are the 2 biggest differences: 1. Infrastructure. Here every main road has a parallel cycle path, not to mention all of the off-road paths, most of which have smooth concrete or asphalt surfaces. Traffic lights have dedicated lights for cyclists, roundabouts are amazingly well designed, railway stations and town centres have covered bike parking etc etc. So cyclists and motorists rarely come into conflict, and cyclists are not tempted to jump red lights or otherwise misbehave. Everyone likes it, so offering more and better cycling infrastructure is a vote winner for politicians. 2. Attitude. Here the culture is to be respectful and considerate towards cyclists. This is largely because nearly all motorists are also cyclists, so understand and are sympathetic to the needs of cyclists. If I'm in my car today and come across you on your bike, I'm going to be considerate towards you as the situation may well be reversed tomorrow. Traffic education begins in primary schools and everyone cycles from an early age. People do cycle for sport and recreation, but mostly as an everyday means of transport, so the culture is different. The solution? Get a lot more people cycling. This is a chicken and egg question; a lot of people won't cycle because they feel unsafe due to the lack of infrastructure, but while there are so few cyclists there won't be the political will to provide/pay for it. I think government needs to be more involved in promoting cycling, which has so many benefits for individuals, the economy and society. Must find out what Kier Starmer thinks about all this.
I think the more cycling you do, there's more chance you'll get abuse. Just on one 90 mile ride I did yesterday I had a few close passes, and two people shouting at me for no reason.
@Markhypnosis1 in almost 20 years I have only ever had abuse 3 or 4 times verbally close passes happen I just simply try not to react to them and I'm doing about 5 to 6000 miles a year. I've been hit once car turning right across my path. A lot of it is just simply communication with drivers let them know your intentions and the odd wave to acknowledge them for waiting and never really have any issues that's it
Most people hate cyclist because their dads said it when they were young. I find the attitude on the UK roads as beyond shocking. I think most of the drivers need a reality check on what they are doing and a long look at themselves once they enter the vehicle. I also believe that car drivers etc. need to be retested every so often to cut out the wrong attitude or driving issues. Cycling is as dangerous as the traffic around us, but it makes it worse that they simply do not care about anyone except themselves.
We were cycling on a narrow country lane when a school bus came up behind us. I knew it was going to stop in the next village, less than a mile further on, and as we were moving quite fast we decided not to stop and pull over. We do have a right to be on the road. But the buss driver started beeping us repeatedly together out of the way. I thought what kind of example is this setting all the children (and future drivers) he was transporting.
This is why I stick to mountain biking and keep off road as much as possible. It's really dangerous out there on the roads - feels bad enough just driving my car these days.
I would suggest that a pre requisite for a driving lesson or licence is that two years of cycling have been completed. that's how many people learnt to respect other road users . Experience educates.
I'd say that road planners should have to ride an area a week or two before getting any ideas for grand designs too. I've seen too many changes in my local roads where cycling impact clearly wasn't well considered.
Discussed this a few times with other riders. I ride 70-100 miles a week and have for the last 3 years and haven't had any problems touch wood. This is not a slight but the only difference between me and the folks i talk to that have problems, is the gear. I don't know if it's that drivers often see fully lycra-clad groups on the weekend taking up the whole road (usually unwilling to tuck in) and associate the clothing with arrogance but i have always just worn board shorts, trainers and a tee shirt and they give me no grief at all......maybe they thing i'm goin to work and not out on the jolly that i am ;)
@@vintagevelos9517 the fact that this preoccupies you enough to make the vid means you aren't the types i'm on about bud. For instance, i was riding the trails out the back of Henley Sunday so stuck the bike in the car. I was on a wide winding road with no markings but easily enough room for cars to pass eachother all the way and yet this weekend warrior heard me coming, dropped to the back of his group and then rode down the centre of the road . When they eventually pulled over, there was no wave or smile to thank any of the drivers in the tailback they had caused. I ride predominantly trails, single track, bridle paths and the odd rural road on the weekends now just to keep away from these types.
Am a cyclist and I ride with my 13 year old Every whkend regularly 6/7 miles But gets on my nerves when cyclsts ride side by side they see you and stubbornly don't move Bad attitudes and give decent cyclists bad rep Happens far to often near me not to mension it Safe riding people x
I’ve been cycling on and off for over 40 years and am still shocked at the foul mouth abuse I get when on my bike from motorists. The worst area I would say was around London are and Essex. One guy in an SUV pulled up alongside me on a country lane, wound his window down and told me to get off the **** road you **** ***** ! I was so shocked I had to pull over and rest for about 20 minutes. Scared the living daylights out of me. Seriously WTF?
I'm lucky enough to live in France, where in general, motorists will usually wait for a safe place to overtake. There are always exceptions who blast their horns just when overtaking you too close and you nearly fall off with fright ! I must admit that before I cycled regularly I didn't really realize how scary car behaviour is when they get too close to a cyclist.
Great video 👍🏻 Also love vintage cycling, all the stories and stuff. Pantani is one of my all time cycling favourites. I loved watching the documentary about him. A true legend.
As a cyclist myself i see so many bad examples of fellow cyclists on the roads. Jumping red lights, not using cycle paths where provided, riding unnecessarily two abreast and dangerously in large groups and riding while wearing headphones unaware ofvwhat is happening around them. I can give an example of a group who stupidly and selfishly held me up on my way to work dawdling along two abreast in a 50 zone, I went to overtake and the rider with headphones in decided he was goung to turn into me almost causing a serious accident. We have to understand how this frustrates and gives cyclists a bad name. I generally have always liked riding alone or in a small group of two or three and have always respected other road users, always pulling in to singke file when a car is approaching and being fully aware of what is going on around me.
I don’t ride the road’s much anymore. I road MTB for years because of cars but I’ve gone gravel bike and riding cycle paths, trails ect. Unfortunately there is a lot more cars today from when I used to ride the road bikes back in the 90,s
Oddly a local bridle path near me is over loaded with walkers and dog walkers plus runners plus gravel riders plus horse riders - all trying to keep off the roads... Dan
Agree pretty much with what you said, but it certainly seems to vary depending what part of the country you are in. Here is south east Wales things are pretty good and much better than some parts of England.
@@vintagevelos9517anywhere in the urban areas of Cardiff, Newport and the built up valleys is still sketchy like any city, the rural bits such as Powys and Monmouthshire much better
I had a conversation with two PCSOs on bikes. They said they were fully trained and had done the course. I asked what their employer advised about the door zone? They didn't know what the door zone was. 😅
I am a cyclist and a driver of many years. When cycling I stop at red lights I let all vehicles pass me when ever safe to do so if the road is narrowed but still I get some vehicle users shouting abuse at me for no reason just taking their anger out of a stranger . It just shows what society is turning too not just for road users but in everyday life. There is no consequence anymore for bad behaviour where ever it is. In law and order generally the consequence does not fit the crime. Some Human beings need to be regulated with a general good rule of law and standards because if they are not and can get away with things they will it human nature for some. This conservative Government who have had power the past 14 years and used to be know for the government of law and order went the opposite way and it was to save money they cut road traffic Police by 30% they generally cut the police force and back room staff for many years and down graded anti-social behaviour in as just... live with it ? Yes Fat-Cat reference your comments there are arrogant selfish cycle riders and these need to be dealt with I agree but this blame culture is undermining society in general making it toxic. We will all pay a price going forward if things don't change. Society will become even more divided and aggressive thing are hard enough out there at present do we really want to live in a world like that.
From the Netherlands, I cycle in the UK quite often, (lejog amongst other things) as a holiday and in my experience I get little abuse. But that might also be because I’m travelling rather than frequenting urban areas. The roads are bad in central England and around the big cities but wales, Cornwall, Norfolk, Scotland, the penines are mostly pretty good although intended for all vehicles mostly. I would say, the grief is justified, but should be aimed at where it counts: the metropolitan/city/suburb areas because the countryside is usually fine and the mentality great.
@@vintagevelos9517 one thing that help also, there are a lot of bigger, faster roads in the UK that technically you are allowed to cycle on but just should and mostly can avoid as a cyclist, you don’t want to be on a semi highway anyways.
Quite a simple explanation. A lot of urban and rural roads are very narrow in the UK and so cyclists are seen by drivers as a impediment to their progress. It creates anger and resentment.
How easy is it to avoid main roads? I would like to do 1-2 weeks biking southern england. I already did 5 days in Connemarra Ireland, and the main roads were pretty sketchy. New Zealand was also pretty bad on the main roads. I've got a drop bar touring bike, so gravel roads are fine. But sometimes there is only one road.. So is it worse than Ireland or New Zealand?
South is tricky - A roads are very busy, smaller roads are often used as rat runs and cut throughs due to overspill from the main roads, rest of the UK is better, Dan
Yep I agree the south is tricky, although you can come to the most stunning seafront in Sussex at Eastbourne and walk along it , You cant cycle it though because its locked in a 19th century time vortex where new fangled bikes are not allowed except on a main road with deathtraps
I don't doubt the prevalence of these negative experiences, but in the interests of balance I should share mine. Invariably around the lanes of rural Lincolnshire motorists pass wide and slowly, and cyclists facilitate passing wherever possible. Thank yous and waves are the norm, and it all contributes to a positive experience.
Not jumping red lights would be a good start for us cyclists. It always embarrasses the hell out of me on group rides. One less thing for drivers to get angry about anyway.
Hear hear! If you want to be respected, then you have to respect the rules yourself. I'm writing this as someone who no longer has a car but has several bikes.
@@christopheroliver148 Ah, lights... correct - we should not jump them - I do have issues with sensor controlled lights that don`t see us though - tricky, Dan
@@vintagevelos9517Sometimes you can trigger them by putting your shoes cleats on the signal wire line if you can see where it’s embedded in the bitumen. Works better for MTB metal cleats but the bolts on plastic cleats can sometimes work.
I just happen to cycle sometimes. Other times I’m driving. Or taking a ride on my motorbike. The treatment I receive from others TOTALLY depends on my vehicle at the time, even though I’m the same person.
Well said! I agree with all you say, particularly concerning cycling infrastructure. I have been cycling in the UK for 50 years now, and at nearly 80 I have to report that things have not changed much in Mankyland (Manchester). My only tip is to seek out the back roads and lanes and stay off busy A roads. Keep in mind that the antagonism between motorists and cyclists has existed since the 1900s when the motorcar became the predominant means of personal transport, and that the UK remains a class based society where the car you drive is an index of your social standing. Remember, too, that time triallists had to race in all over black so as not to offend passing motorists as late as the 1950s. Ironically, these issues remain with us even after the recent bourgeoisification (to coin a phrase) of cycling and the advent of the £10,000 bike. Cheers - I enjoy the channel.
Used to think as you do, couldn’t see the point of cycle video cams. They don’t prevent collisions, and in the US police will not ticket motorists on video evidence. What changed my mind? A recent local crash between a cyclist and a motorcyclist coming from behind, both went down. MC claimed the cyclist moved out in front of him, and that was how TV news covered it. Nothing from the cyclist because he was in a helicopter en route to a regional hospital (fortunately injuries not serious). I’m familiar with the scene: a 45mph zone where motorists frequently speed, and the cyclist may have been trying to turn left (across the road) onto a side road leading to a small town. PLUS two car/cyclist collisions which left two cyclists with hospital bills alone of $180K and $250K, even though both recovered fully (in one of the incidents another cyclist died). Which reminded me of a hard training crash I had years ago (steel bike, hair net helmet), no car involved AFAIK. A bad concussion, knocked out, permanent loss of memory of the period before the crash and the incident itself. The point is that if a lawsuit results, you may have NOTHING to offer as a witness. Video can be your witness, and may mean a quick settlement. Also, I sometimes review a sketchy situation on the road to see if my memory is correct and if I missed seeing something. The cams just sit on the bike and run, I don’t think about them at all while riding.
Fair point - I guess its the guys who almost go out looking for bad driving are just kind of missing the point of riding, anger breeds anger though evidence would be very usefull, Dan
@@vintagevelos9517 Cyclists who go out looking for bad driving must be a rarity, I’ve never met one. No need to look for dangerous driving, it comes to you, probably more often in urban areas than around here. What happens is that drivers don’t comprehend why bicycles are doing what they are and, in a narcissistic way, assume that cyclists are just trying to annoy specifically them. And respond by doing things to punish the cyclist, endangering them, and provoking the understandable outraged response when someone intentionally and unnecessarily endangers you. Cyclist, still upset, may post video, for various reasons. And then victim-blamers claim cyclist went riding looking to be endangered. Seriously? Motorists (and commenters lacking experience in cycling in traffic) don’t grasp how difficult it is for cyclists to see what is going on behind them. Because cyclists are balancing, they must devote attention to micro steering adjustments to stay upright (something experienced riders forget that they do!), and also scan for threats ahead. They can’t ride along looking backwards, must make do with glances. And because they use both hands for braking, they can’t simultaneously brake and signal. On a ride, I’m looking to enjoy cycling along, savor scenery, and get where I’m going reasonably efficiently and quickly (in a city, faster than a car plus no fuss finding a place to park). I WANT motorists to pass me as long as (a) they do it safely and (b) a queue ahead doesn’t make passing pointless. It’s easier to deal with their antics if they are ahead of me than when they are behind. I don’t think I’m superior to anybody, I just want to be left alone to do my thing. And I don’t think I’m alone in this regard. I resisted using a GPS computer until I realized I could lay out routes incorporating at least some low-traffic roads and have the GPS guide me along eliminating having to remember street names and peer for signposts. I’m not afraid of traffic, it’s just more peaceful (and beautiful) on back roads. I also find the Varia tail radar extremely helpful, letting me know when a motorist is approaching from behind, displaying their distance and speed - no surprises. And records passers' data every second, storing it for later use if needed. I try to make a point of waving to motorists who pass me safely (it costs me nothing). The passer may not even see the wave, it’s really for other drivers coming up from behind, so they know (a) I’m a friendly guy and (b) that was a nice pass, now they can try to do the same. I quit waving motorists by me because too often a vehicle suddenly appears in the oncoming lane, rendering a pass unsafe. P.S. I also have a LOT of miles in cars & pickups, and on motorcycles.
Sorry to hear about the road rage in the UK. I don't think it's as bad in the US, at least not in the SF Bay Area where I live. I like your suggestion of not responding to angry people. Two more things I try to do: 1. Being considerate to both drivers and pedestrians. You mentioned letting cars pass and not running red lights. 2. Avoiding busy roads or roads with stressed drivers.
Yep, I think us riders taking a nicer mental attitude on the road makes difference - buts its a challenge to keep smiling and let it wash over you, Dan
I live in the East Bay. I also feel it's not that bad. I commute 4 miles to work x 5 days a week. (and back). I let cars passed me by, respect red lights, etc.
I’ve noticed on the continent that many cycle lanes are on the other side of the hedge rows giving clear separation between cars and cycles. Our road space is so limited so we need to open up more routes away from the roadside.
Any form of vegetation between the carriageway and cycle lane helps keep them clean. The ones I ride to work are directly by the roadside (who am i kidding, it's just a pavement with a blue sign above it...) and get swept about once a year and are covered with glass and other crap within a fortnight. Having a whole hedge between is nicer, less noise, no spray from passing traffic etc.
I am a cyclist. I've been knocked off my bike several times by drivers most recently by a caravan. I get fed up with cyclists choosing the road over cycle lanes. Its not all about Strava, its about safety. I also share driver frustration with informal peletons. Why should cyclists be allowed to create a large slow moving obstruction for their sport?
Sorry to hear you`ve been knocked off more than once - guessing the caravan driver pulled in too early and swiped you? I love Strava but also love cycle lanes - I use them whenever I can but would love loads more of them, Dan
Great video! Did you record it with a mirrored lens as I don’t understand why you are riding on the right side of the road being in the uk? Just curious. Otherwise, the hatred for cyclists is a global pandemic. But I feel like it is getting better here in Ottawa. Slowly though.
@@vintagevelos9517 thanks. I love the advice near the end about our responsibilities as cyclists. I have always believed that getting along with the drivers as being the best way to create good karma between bikes and cars.
I retired a few years ago and find cycling outside of commuting hours to be a far less hassle. Its a cliche, but white van drivers are the most likely to overtake too close (time is money ..). The majority of drivers are respectful and, in turn, if i think i am holding someone up, i will pull over. Having a bike radar is brilliant as I can judge when to quickly look backwards to signal to a driver that I know they are there. One last thing, I once bought a top that was similar to local football colour - not a good idea.
Just back from a cycle, my usual Largs Greenock 33ml round trip. My bike?. A 2006 Specialized crossroads, Alloy frame and rim brakes. I am 66yrs old now. Driving has got worse. Over the past 4yrs a lot worse. People have been made to fell scared { 2020 thing } they have been coerced, bullied, and pushed, and now they are being fleeced for gas,elec, food, fuel, well everything really. I think that's where the anger comes from, but we need to take our anger out on the people that are causing this misery, and not each other.
I think that a small but significant number of people in the UK are just plain nasty. I'm 70 and I've seen this develop over the decades. It's not just cycling, it affects all activities. My current policy is to ride on the pavements where possible, ignore other road users, give way when it's the cyclists RoW, don't wear hiviz as it just winds up the idiots even more. I'm on the verge of giving up. It's just so horrible.
Your not alone - I`ve spoken with plenty of cyclists who feel forced off the roads onto pavements - good cycling lanes would really help with this, Dan
I ride in Scotland in the Borders area and I find that the attitude of the driveres around here is actually getting better. This is a prime area for cycling ethusiasts There are of course alsways the odd idiots, especially in souped up cars with 4 inch asshole sized exhausts who scream at you for simply being there. But for the majority of cases, things look quite good. I also tend to indicate to them when they can pass me, by waving them through and at the same time indicating to them " pass at slow speed" by pushing my hand down to the ground. This usally works quite well especially if the differential speed is not too fast and drivers thank me by waving or indicators blinking. When you know that such a a close pass is coming you are prepared and it will be OK. And when I am in a situation where thy CANNOT overtake me safely I ride very defensivly in the middle of the lane. There are a few stretches on the roads around here where a long stretched out curve is going on for ever over several hundred yards and cars get stuck behind you and if that is the case, I might just stop and let them pass.
Hmmm... maybe if the area your in see`s an increase in cycling as a good thing (cafes, bike shops, hotels etc.) then attitudes can change fast - and I think its attitudes that are the biggest issue, Dan
Out in Herts I find motorists are mostly (not all sadly) considerate and leave plenty of space when passing. I use a mirror to look out for vehicles coming up fast and close and I wear a fluorescent yellow top. At junctions and roundabouts I try and make eye contact with anyone in a position to hit me, plus hand signals and “body language” to make it clear where I’m going. Wearing tinted cycling glasses seems like a bad idea because it prevents eye contact and makes you look like an alien!
Wow Dan, a hot and sensitive topic this one! For perspective I live in Adelaide, Australia- home of the Tour Down Under. Even here, where cycling is extremely popular we experience similar levels of anger towards cyclists. Our government has improved infrastructure and most main roads have a dedicated bike lanes - so no excuses there. Some motorists just enjoy the idea of hassling cyclists. We tend to ignore most of them and just get on with it. I’ve seen some bad drivers and bad cyclists on the road. Wish we could all just get along and enjoy the day. I agree 100% with your comments re ‘stealth’ clothing etc - madness!! I’d wear Christmas tree lights if I could, to make me more visible. Great work ☕️🚴🏽♂️
I live in the US, bike 13 kms round trip to work x 5 days a week. Use my Toyota all weekend and I respect bikers. A lot of us do bike and ride. Respect and be respectful.
Thanks for the video. Firstly, I agree with everyone's comments below and I thank you all for the input. It is JEALOUSY in many of it's forms.. Perhaps they are too lazy to get out of their cars and pedal for exercise and we remind them each time they see us. In USA and Britain too many people have embraced the car culture. They have invested their lives, livelihoods, and image in motor vehicles and the perceived power it gives them. A bicyclist's fuel is food, not petrol. Perhaps auto drivers are jealous of that. We don't have a mass debt buying and maintaining a bicycle like auto ownership. Perhaps the fact that many cyclists stay physically fit by using our calories to fuel our bikes flusters auto drivers because they lack will power to get on a bike to exercise instead opting to put the pedal down to get to the nearest drive-thru and pig out on the largest and latest fat burger whilst setting in their sporty auto feeling superior to the older model parked in the next stall. And then their are those people that just do not like to see other having a good time, justifying, in their minds, their road rage. I have purposely been run off, or pushed off the road, when in bicycle lane by vehicles with drivers and passengers yelling an screaming and throwing garbage at me in USA. It's getting worse not better. I agree with the comments of @anthonymarsh880. USA/UK angry/entitled people but I would add ignorance. All in all, I don't like to cycle in USA these days for many safety reasons; and now UK on that list because thanks to this video, I had not realized this problem in UK. I will stick to Europe mainland and New Zealand. USA and Uk have not seemed to have acknowledged the big bucks in tourist industry derived from cyclists as the cycle friendly countries cash in! (except the communities all along the USA rail-trails system certainly do.) I am just one person in the thousands of cyclists doing that. France is my next long tour, 90 days Schengen for the wine! Good luck and good cycling....😃😃
Spot on! . Dificult to see how things will go. Another 5 to 10 years we could start seeing autonomous vehicles ( car/ minibus size) circulating, to be hailed by the roadside and which can dynamically route their way picking people up and dropping off carrying multiple people along the route . This will give the impetuous to overhaul our very inefficient trafic light systems to improve flow. It will be interesting to see how cycling fits with that ...as you say the best solution is separation but a lot of towns don't have the space in city centre.
Self drive vehicle will become a thing of the past be great to see miles of tail backs because the AI doesn’t think it’s safe to pass the cyclists 😂 no doubt the verbal abuse and things thrown from windows will continue tho At 42 I’ll prob be to old to enjoy drivers not being able to be aggressive 20 years from now when it’s all AI controlled
As a cyclist ,motorcyclist ,car and for a while truck driver can see all points of view. Living rural and lots of narrow lanes see's the idiots in groups riding two abreast quite fast coming at you round blind bends on a regular basis. Dog walkers other cyclists all ignored as the really don't want to move over to a point of near collision experienced a few times once on bicycle once on motorcycle. I ride with a mirror fitted all cyclist should as like to see what's going on behind me. Unlike the two cyclists I came across on motorcycle ride with traffic behind them and ambulance on blues. Totally oblivious to emergency vehicle. Also its no hardship to move or pull over and let traffic pass. Its quite rewarding when people wave or pip horn or flash hazards to say thanks for being what we all should be and thats simply courteous to all other users. Being told by a cycle race Marshall that you cannot cross public road as there is a race on is the epitome of arrogance and ends with the usual reply of 4Q we live here you lot don't. Haha
I live in a horsey area, never seen anyone abusive to a horse and rider. More people have cars and a lot more people are cycling in the last decade or so from what I've noticed. We have a lot of national speed limit country roads near us, when you come across 10-15 cyclists riding 2 to 3 abreast it can be a little annoying, apart from that what's the problem? Most of the time cyclists keep up with traffic in my area. Since lockdowns certainly, a lot of car drivers have forgotten how to drive! The roads only work if everyone is considerate to each other, but it would be disingenuous to suggest all cyclists are saints...
I have, there’s plenty of incidents of horse riders being killed by aggressive and speeding drivers and even a sad case in South Wales where a speeding driver crashed into a horse drawn funeral cortège in which at least one horse was killed. My wife has horses and she’s always getting stories from her friends pretty much the same as we cyclists hear about nasty aggressive or just plain incompetent drivers.
@@huwsalway4099 "there’s plenty of incidents of horse riders being killed" it was 3 equestrians (and up to 52 horses) in 2023, the highest number since 2018. On average 100 cyclists are killed every year.
Cycling infrastructure goes a long way. Here in my area we have bike lanes, MUP's/bike paths, and of course normal sidewalks. All of these allow riders a zone that's not intruding on cars. Thus allowing the cars to zoom past at their normal speeds and be unhindered. I agree with the mental shift too, I think it's just a hard time for most people and instead of exercising or venting anger another way they let it out while driving.
The problem with the "mixed use" bollocks is cyclists then end up being seen as a hazard to all those dog walkers, mums with push chairs, smartphone zombies and joggers wearing big ear muffin style headphones and completely oblivious to their surroundings. In my area, if I were to commute the 4 miles to town centre and back home on these I would be doing it exactly at the time of the dog walking / jogging hours which makes it nearly impossible to make progress at a decent speed as I have to come to a stop every 50-100m to give way to a dog walker. And all those dog walkers are precisely the same people who, when driving their cars, tell cyclists to get off the road and use the "cycle lane".
The main issue with MUPs is speed restrictions. There is a nice MUP that helps me avoid traffic after one of the local 40 mile loops, but it's posted as 10mph. Even completely toasted after a hard workout, I'm still going to be doing 15 during cool down.
You're totally right that the UK is so different (worse) than other places. The 'car-is-king' attitude is completely ingrained and everything stems from that. I was once riding the French Alps with my young son. Almost every car either waited patiently behind until safe to overtake of gave plenty of room. Mainly French, but also Belgian, Dutch etc. So we then have a really scary close pass - what's on the car's number plate? You guessed it, a UK sticker. But even crazier, this car had bikes on the roof so were clearly cyclists as well!
I think the big thing is how the riders ride on road and slowing people driving cars. I think people who are cyclists are understanding when driving and see a fellow cyclist, but people don’t ride and in a hurry get mad seeing a cyclist on the road. I was stationed in the UK for two years and the roads around the base were very narrow which makes sharing the road more difficult.
Re club rides - 2 abreast is ok provided there are no more than 8 riders per group ie so that the car only has to overtake a short group occupying no more space than a minivan. If there is a lot of oncoming traffic then the group should go to single file and let the cars squeeze past. Being considerate to drivers will go a long way to changing public perception and attitudes towards cyclists
Surprisingly I think drivers are quite good in uk (Shropshire) as long as you are behaving. I never faced any pb! Fingers crossed it will continue (PS: I am french)
I dont take it personally. My own experience has told me that the drivers that hate cyclists actually hate themselves more.....thats what makes them lash out. Just give them a smile and let them go, knowing how worked up they'll be all while I pedal on wondering what I'll have for dinner tonight. Hint it won't be a pizza like Beta male in the Audi.
Lights, lights, lights and flashing lights - all day everyday. When wearing hi viz or reflective put it where there's movement - shoes or legs - stay safe!
I ride half the year in Brittany and half in U.K in Brittany I get friendly tooting, thumbs up and waves from motorists, the U.K can be somewhat different, maybe it’s the pressure on space?
Thanks Dan , very interesting subject & some great comments below, I commute & it’s definitely get worse trying to find a quiet window in between different rush hours is becoming almost impossible, we now have the increase in fast food delivery service traffic adding to our problems with riding into towns & cities, I wonder where this will all end up 🤷♂️
Unfortunately, not many people are taught the highway code anymore. Also, I used to ride horses ( in Cornwall ), and I've got to say cyclists had the same attitude towards horses that car drivers have towards cyclists. I now live in Spain, and on the whole car drivers are good, however the only problems I get with car drivers are from the UK, passing to close, cut infront after passing WHY?
One of the main factors in the UK is the simple fact that its a small country and the population has increased by 12 million since 1970 and the car pullulation has seriously increased with it. Also their are far more drivers less likely to actually personally know someone who cycles a these days and that is also a factor compared too 1970 as well.
It's at least partly down to lycra and helmets, they make you look too different. I ride a lot , always in normal looking clothing, still get back to fronts in cars but less, I reckon anyway, I could be wrong and all the blame lies with utter back to fronts in their mobility aids
I cycle in South Wales UK a couple of times a week on average. I only ride the country roads and I'm always polite and courteous to other road users. Most drivers, men and women treat me with the same respect though on occasion there's the odd one who let's his ego do the driving. Rule number one, think for everybody else on the road. 😊
Well done, a considered and thought through video. There are definitely a lot of angry drivers out there but there are also a fair number of militant cyclists who won't go single file when a car approaches. IMO the anger has got worse since covid and the lockdowns. There needs to be education on both sides, but particularly for drivers.
What about introducing a mandatory period of riding a bike on public roads for all new drivers as part of the driving test.. I don't think the answer is separating cyclists and traffic all the time, sure in certain places that is the answer. What needs to change is for drivers to realise how vulnerable cyclist are to vehicles on the road.
From someone that is a cyclist: I see many people on bikes out there, but very few “cyclists”… I.e. There is a difference between someone that’s just riding a bike, and a real cyclist. A real cyclist knows how to position themselves for their safety, a real cyclist performs visual checks and uses gestures before making lane changes etc, a real cyclist knows that riding 2 or more abreast is better than riding single file with large spacing between each bike, a real cyclist has lights (even in daylight if you know you’re going to be riding between bright light and shaded areas etc) and wears more visible colours, a real cyclist wears a helmet, a real cyclist doesn’t blatantly ignore the highway code and traffic law just because they don’t want to slow or stop due to traffic conditions or toad signs etc. Tbh, there are many many more points to raise but, in my view there is a very obvious difference between folk on a bike and “real” cyclists when out cycling, motorcycling or driving the car. I love seeing real cyclists out and about, even if it causes me to drive slower at certain times, as you know what, it has almost NO impact on my overall journey time at all…! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼 What does frustrate me, when i’m on a bike or any form of transport, are tosspots out cycling that have absolutely no idea how to cycle or do so legally and/or safely. The same could be said for moped drivers. Omg, some of them ate motorcyclists that happen to be riding a moped, and some of them are just “on a moped”, and here again, you can REALLY tell the difference…
Can`t help but add teenagers on no-legal hi power e-mountainbikes seem to be really bad at following any sort of rule, certainly in the South East - a growing issue, Dan
@@vintagevelos9517 Ah yes, the electric scooters and non-pedal-assisted bikes that go well above the speedlimit, yeah… I’m all for allowing it tbh, but, non pedal assist should be classed as a moped and need a licence. Anything under 14/15mph then fair do’s, but my god, so many people need to be educated how to use the road, not just the car drivers (and by gum that are some bloody terrible car drivers out there). I’ll often wait for a BIG space for an overtake when over taking a cyclist, as i do NOT trust the cars behind me to make the same consideration and are very likely to just blindly follow me. I like the adopt-a-cyclist / adopt-a-motorcyclist approach that only a rate few vehicle drivers take, which is to stick behind them (longer than needed in some cases) to make sure at least 1 sensible person is driving behind them. You see this a fair bit in really bad weather in europe with motorcyclists and cars/lorry’s, that will purposefully stay behind to offer them some protection from traffic that may not be paying full attention.
When riding on my own I rarely get abused. When riding in groups it’s almost a 100% strike rate. My city has excellent bike infrastructure so that helps keep cyclists off main roads.
The frustrated driver level soars when there`s two or more of you - up to a point - I note that when on Sportives drivers seem to kind of realise whats going on and calm down - strange... Dan
Mate...Australia sounds as bad ifnot worse. Had one guy aggressively intimidate me a month ago before nudging my wheel. Kid you not how does another human attempt to harm someone. Don't think he had any idea he'd actually hit me but I'm bloody lucky I didn't go under the car. Fuck aggressive drivers. They should loose their licenses indefinitely.
As I said my to mate if someone is brave enough to walk behind me in the street throw something at me and demand i get out of their way I have no problem them doing it in their car But guess what never happens people are very brave when in their metal box and a quick escape Pure cowardice
One issue is that cyclists can result in a blockage on busy roads because motorists want to put so much space now between the cyclist and the vehicle that wants to pass, they are incredibly cautious in overtaking the cyclists and if the other side of the road is busy, then its even more of an issue. This brings the traffic down to possibly 12km to 25km per hour, usually way below the road speed so to speak. When groups are two abreast, this is even more troublsome and causes a long tailback. Cyclists are currently perfectly in their rights to use any road except motorways. So there is perhaps an argument to say that some busy roads are not suitable for cyclists for these reasons and also saftey concerns for both parties.
That would be a big shame to accept that lack of infrastructure would legal drive cylists off the roads when we all know active travel is to be encouraged - cycle lanes, no matter how poor are the answer in my opinion - or maybe restrictions on vehicle size - I was looking at an Austin A35 family car the other day... Dan
I cycle and drive so I can see both sides, but what I like to do is when cycling on small lanes is pull in to let traffic pass, it’s a win win, I’m happy no car following me and they often wave very happy! People.
Your a better man than me - I`m happy to get as far over as I can and love a cycle lane no matter how small it is but don`t think I`m calm enough to pull over, Dan
No.1 vast investment in public transport and modal filters so buses can travel freely. No. 2 legal obligations to build widespread cycle infrastructure city, town and country. No. 3 installation of road crossings/zebras on busy side streets, requires updating of existing laws that say a flashing beacon is required - they work in private car parks so why not elsewhere?
Level crossings! There's plenty in SE UK, and the anger level of the car owners when the barriers remain down after the 2-3 train!?! We cyclists are not the most hated.
I would say the majority of cars are pretty forgiving around London, Essex and Hertfordshire. If you do something like block a car from passing you might get a toot. The majority of negative experiences I have had are with van drivers that are probably on the clock normally rushing to get to their next job or have woken up at the crack of dawn on a Saturday or Sunday to make a bit of money. If I was in their position running late all the time coming up against cyclists everywhere it would wind you right up. Not to mention drinking coffee all day in order to stay awake on the road.
Oddly enough I find the van drivers around here better than the car drivers - as long as you expect them to stop at anypoint and jump out for a delivery, Dan
As a pedestrian a few reasons why we don't like cyclists that much. Especially in London, cyclists tend to ride on pavements, even though this is against the law. They also sometimes ring their bells for you to get out of the way on pavements even though again this is illegal. They sometimes run red lights even when pedestrians are crossing. As a driver: Some cyclists don't give enough space for cars to pass. Some run red lights, don't signal with their hand when turning, and ride really irregularly making navigating around them difficult.
Ah, city cycling... no space for cyclists on the road, not allowed on the footpaths... and then we do`t help ourselves by not following the rules - though when you say "Some cyclists don't give enough space for cars to pass" I`m guessing thats not quite what you mean - cycling code is pretty clear its the cars responsibilty with a minimum of 1.5m space required for a safe pass (in case the cyclist falls off so you don`t drive over their head...), Dan
@@moneyboyok, I think there needs to be a lot better education to everyone, that we all - walkers, cyclists, drivers - pay tax for our road infrastructure. It does not belong to motorists, with everyone else just tolerated because drivers are so generous! There will occasionally be a designated cycle lane but unless it is maintained it is sometimes just a pot holed menace. I also think drivers should always remember that given the sheer power at their fingertips a few minutes ‘dawdling’ behind some cyclists or horse riders can very easily be made up.
In the country ,I find groups of cyclist very good and considerate, solo cyclists are not as roadsmart as will wave you on when unsafe. In the city I find the standard of cycling terrible,.99.9% or cyclists jump red lights, at night many of them wear dark clothing and don't use lights. WIll ride 2 abreast holidng up traffic so they can chat. Most cyclists never look behind them before changing direction or signal. AT traffic lights. Even if you the only car at the lights, they will go infront of you into their cycle box and force you to crawl behind them instead of just letting you go. Cycling is my main form of trasnport just now. I dont really have issues with cars whether on a bicycle or tricycle. Being an advanced driver and rider though , nothing really bothers me , no matter what I ride or drive. I'm not bothered by most things car drivers do, but only report them if they have a bad attitude aswell, such as a landrover that cut me off to tell me I must ride in cycle lanes which is not the case; at the tijme I was in primary for hazards ahead which they clearly clueless about .
It doesn’t matter about likelihoods of a collision with a cyclist against a pedestrian. It’s about the outcome. Life changing injuries can be sustained, by both parties, and the death by dangerous cycling is the ultimate charge in the ultimate situation. Some cyclists are extremely reckless when cycling in places they shouldn’t or in shared spaces. Being in charge of any vehicle is a responsibility that everyone who does it should be taking seriously. Close passing pedestrians is just as dangerous as cars close passing cyclists.
@@vintagevelos9517 like you were saying about how many angry motorists there are, taking responsibility for our actions should be preceded by understanding the potential outcome of those actions, before we execute them. Which a lot of people seem to lack, no use crying after the event. Car and motorcycle driver and occasional cyclist these days.
Except that the casualty figures do not even begin to support your stance, Over 40 pedestrians are killed in collisions while they are on the pavements every year, by motor vehicles, the average for cyclist collisions is
@@paulgoff5068 typical angry cyclist Paul. Why is it death or nothing? Saw a TH-cam clip of a cyclist hit by an e scooter. Broken bones, knackered bike lots of time off work, well out of pocket, police not interested. And he’ll have aches and pains and loss of mobility for the rest of his life. That’s a very comparable collision. Everyone has to do better.
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Here's why :
Too many have little road sense, arrogantly ignoring normal road rules and they do fast, unexpected things that set up accidents. Many /most do not drive cars so have limited understanding of how difficult they are to see, especially in rain and dark. Many compound difficulties by not having visual markers on themselves or bike. Too many possess arrogant attitudes like an out of control toddler that they should get to do whatever they like but still turn round and blame the car driver for what happened. Their behaviour can set up accidents in a chain effect that go way beyond just themselves and bodywork damage to the immediate car. If you try to call out their behaviour or even try to give life saving advice you are often met by the middle finger and/or swears.
A significant portion of cyclists delude themselves ideologically that they are being morally superior by avoiding car use when in fact those beliefs are highly arguable and in any case many of those just really cycle for economic reasons and tac on false virtue as a feel-good. A lot of them are commie types or green weirdos ( another form of commie in my opinion ).
Bad cyclist behaviour is also a menace to pedestrians and they are regarded with the same kind of toddler arrogance by many cyclists. The blind /partially sighted are at risk especially.
When it comes to group cycling on cuntry roads, mygod that can really take the biscuit for arrogance. You know what I'm talking about.
You know everything here that I'm taking about.
Many, not all, I know that - before you say.
Also, before you say I don't know what its like from the other way round - actually I have cycled most of my life on racers and off road bikes ( till I got too fat and useless , sad I know ). I obey the rules, I don't do unexpected things, I don't ride on pavements unless its a cycle way, I don't flip off drivers, I keep myself visible.
I could challenge everypoint here - but as an example of the sort of mentality that should not be driving two tons of steel at speed on any road.... Dan
@@vintagevelos9517 Silly. Mixing streams of traffic in the same space where the vulnerable element does vastly dissimilar speed and has vastly less visibility, means that, the user of that has to be aware of their vulnerability and NOT behave stupidly. You answer ignores reality. I am a careful driver and a cyclist (though not recently ). To say I should not be driving my two tons ( for telling the obvious truth ) is so arrogant and silly, but sadly quite typical. As I say, my starting position here is that cycles are the odd thing out on the road, the one that is so dissimilar to the rest of the traffic stream. Riders of cycles very often seem to have an inflated sense of their importance and an indifference to the reality of their vulnerability. If they cycled responsibly most problems would be avoided and I am guessing that you do by the way. Unfortunately many do not. I am all for separating streams of traffic by the way e.g. trams in walled off runs, roads as biased for vehicular use and others beware, plus cycle and walking spaces built into the system where possible. Where there is sharing however, its the bike riders who do need to realise THEY are the odd thing out, the traffic stream that is dissimilar to the others, with unique vulnerability. Vehicle drivers being required to allow space while passing is a sensible thing and should be enforced.
Act accord to reality, take better responsibility for your actions ( not you ) and not try to make out vehicles drivers presence there is some sort of outrage against them and the planet.
Everything I said in this and my initial reply is the truth. A lot of cyclists live in la la land.
@@Fat_Cat_747 I guess there's no way to find common ground. As with everything today it's trench warfare. I'll just say as I always do...the stats don't lie.
It sounds as though you have a very limited view of cyclists. Your opinions have some validity where a small number of sports cyclists or irresponsible
Sorry that got interrupted.
I cycle in the UK most days of the week. A lot of people in cars hate me and want me to die. People are really angry, always in a rush, impatient. Best advice i have learned let them pass, do not engage if they hurl abuse just let it go and keep safe
For sure some drivers are very aggressive - they are the ones to keep well clear of, Dan
There are way too many inattentive, not to say DOPEY, pedestrians@marcel-jt3dy
I might have done well to mention, the town I live in and spend most days cycling [in the Midlands] is full of pikeys. When I cycle further afield [for instance to the peak district which is more affluent with a higher demographic], people are less aggressive, more relaxed and overall its a nicer place to exist and get about [in particular on a bike]
I second the call to avoid confrontation, coming from South Africa I can tell you from personal experience that it can lead to violence or worse very quickly and unpredictably. We are completely unprotected and ALWAYS come off worse.
Great advice!
Here in the Netherlands there are 18 million people, 9 million cars and 24 million bicycles. Every motorist also rides a bicycle, which makes a big difference. And we have as many cycle paths as motorways.
Britain was the sam,e in the 60s . .. now we have a prominent Bengali culture taking over ..its sickening .
Wis we could be half as good as the Netherlands - not sure what krishnan-resurrection is on about - if thats in any way racist I`ll delete it, Dan
@@vintagevelos9517the Dutch are just way more chill than the British must be all the coffee shops 💨
@@krishnan-resurrection714 This is just bollocks. There were fewer cars in the 60s, but there was never any decent cycling infrastructure, and what's Bengali culture got to do with the price of fish?
Since you mentioned motorways, comparing a map of the Dutch motorway network with the UK motorway network, you see that many parts of the UK don't have motorways at all, especially for moving around within the cities. The main traffic is often on a narrow 30mph surface road with lots of roundabouts, pedestrian crossings, and only one lane per direction that has to be shared by cars, bikes and public transport. This kind of road works fine as a quiet residential road but in the UK, it's typically also the backbone of a city's road network. This can make longer journeys stressful for car drivers, cyclists and pedestrians alike.
On a club ride 6 of us riding single file were beeped at angrily by a passing driver. We caught up with him at the junction where he wound down the window to tell us to f*ck off!. There are a lot of idiots driving in the UK
@EdStraker720they were riding single file and the driver was able to pass. Much different to a slow driver where it is often hard to pass.
Standard !!
@EdStraker720 But this clearly wasn't the case here. It's not as though it was a double paceline.
@EdStraker720 I can cite many instances where drivers have driven recklessly around me and I'm the only cyclist on the road and I've been as far in as I could have possibly been. We've all got our stories! The fact is drivers need to know the road is not just for their use. Cyclists, motorbikes and horses have every right to be there too. Cars, imo are at the bottom of the list in order of importance, and yes I drive too.
Invest in a camera. The driver who told you to f*ck off will be recorded. Then report it to the police as it's a public order offence.
Thought I would share a negative experience I had very recently. Was cycling downhill when a school bus pulled up at a junction and immediately merged onto the road without seeing me. I had to pull the brakes hard and almost ended up sideways. I said to the driver, " You almost killed me, mate." He responded by saying, "You will get killed sitting on that anyway!". Really made me think about the attitude some people have towards us and how the dehumanizing effect could be contributing towards the hatred we receive as cyclists.
Brakes
Yep, this is an odd mentality we are seeing now - its "OK" to take out a cyclist - who has this become a thing??? Dan
report the driver immediately to the bus company. Send them an email.
We try and ride on gravel as much as possible now, only sharing the road with motorists as little as we can. Last summer we rode in France twice. They have long sections of separated cycle tracks, even in cities. Motorists were also considerate and courteous.
I am not sure, but I think there may be a presumption of motorist fault in France.
Cycling in France is a joy compared to the battle ground that is the UK. The infrastructure is far superior plus other motorists respect cyclists. It’s far safer.
Forget about educating UK road users on the dangers to cyclists, half the population are plain thick. 90% of people still don't know that a bus lane has a time on it and the amount of people who sit in the middle lane on a motorway for absolutely no reason. Absolutely no chance of these people taking anything on board.
Uk is not cycle friendly the road surfaces are not cycle friendly either!
Yep, no desire at the top to stop playing us off against each other, Dan
The road surfaces are nolonger car friendly either!
@@janwilson9485I know I drive aswell!
UK is nothing friendly
Close passing is at least menacing and potentially attempted murder. People that do it should lose the right to drive.
That would mean at least 60% of people should lose their license. I don't necessarily disagree, but it's never going to happen.
the other big problem is drivers who insist on using their phones whilst driving
@@independentthought3390i mean about 90% shouldnt be driving for other reasons anyway
@@independentthought3390 I suspect the percentage who are reckless passers to be smaller than that. I have only a few each season, not that they aren't more than a little terrifying.
@@techjunkie68smusicandtech56 That, especially texting, should result in a license suspension.
It's not just cyclists that get the abuse. We're just the easy, vulnerable ones. Lorries, caravans, tractors. Car drivers hate them all. We're a nation of angry, entitled people.
We never used to be. What's changed?
@@grahammitchell8524 That a good question - I`ve ridden in the UK all my life an the last 10 years have seen a big change in attitudes, Dan
@@grahammitchell8524 Money. It started back in the 60s I think. We started to become more affluent, more self concerned, less interested in our neighbours. The more we got, the less we cared about others. Hasn't made for happy communities has it ?
I noticed it immediately after Brexit. It was as if there had always been a silent seething group of people who wanted ‘Great’ Britain back when you not only ruled the waves but everyone, everywhere. Being nice to foreigners, walkers, cyclists, - far too much to ask!
People have always had people who want to abuse people. The only thing that is changed is the people being abused. There are some politicians who want to single out some groups to blame so that they can distract attention from the failure of the politicians. Do not spend money on roads, blame cyclists.
In the UK a large number of people ride bikes for pleasure rather than to work or the shops. Therefore there are far fewer numbers, so there is less downside for demonizing them.
I'll happily pull into a layby / big verge if I feel I'm holding traffic up unnecessarily, but likewise I know to hold my space. I think it comes down to the old adage 'don't be a d*ck'. Also, completely agree on the bright colours - team kits also do look cool! Bright helmet - socks, white shoes.... Plus a daybright light on the rear at all times. In 25 years of cycling I've never had any dodgy situations - apart from when I was being the cocky one in my youth. Send out the vibes you want to get back and the world does answer.
As of writing this I have not watched your video.
I am a US cyclist and just recently had my first incident of being hit by a car (scraped up but I walked away). One thing I noted was how ANGRY this guy was at me for being angry at him for being hit. Cars and car culture have made it so people driving have a sense of ownership of the road (even though it's very much a privilege). We have been told, here at least, cars have the road and pedestrians have the sidewalk. We must cross at certain intersections and we as pedestrians must look out for cars as car drivers are not responsible enough to look out for us.
Now that I've watched it I have critiques. For the whole we need LESS cars on the road not just separate car and bike lanes. What does that entail? It means making public transit between towns and cities and intercity as fully available and affordable as possible to a point it is an effective option over personal car travel. It also means ensuring businesses that are essential for people (food, clothes, office jobs, non industrial facilities) are as close to housing as possible. So it's either a train ride (for most work), a walk, or bike ride away. Make cars one option. But not the only option.
NOT JUST BIKES, and StrongTowns are great channels that do better at describing and addressing the issues
@@paulschulman8131 Glad you wern`t seriously hurt - you go a long way further than I had thought about - almost a different society - I`d be happy with just a bit more of a Dutch style integration of road users in general... Dan
@@vintagevelos9517 it's a sad history (for cycling) a lot of the infrastructure cars use was meant for bicycles but the car industry did a hostile takeover and literally indoctrinated generations to believe roads are for cars and jaywalking is a crime.
@@paulschulman8131 Jaywalking is not a traffic offence in the UK though.
@@paulschulman8131 Petrochemical dollars at work... dan
No public information from a Tory government that is supported by an anti-cycling press. This emboldens anti-cycling motorists.
Strangely drivers blame cyclists for slowing them down/getting in their way but don't think that all the other cars/congestion is really responsible .
Let's hope for a change from a new government.
It always amazes me how they say we should pay road tax like we dont have a car at home.
Yep, its the main argument made by anti cyclists - yet every rider I know has a car and a job - plenty of tax paid there... Dan
Funny because the UK has no road tax, it's emissions tax. Cyclists don't have emissions, unless they've been eating a lot of beans before the ride. Besides, ALL the taxes paid on your car aren't enough to maintain the roads, at least 40% of the costs comes from general taxation (VAT and income tax) I pay those, why should I subsidize motorists who year up the roads with their wasteful SUVs and the construction of motorways that I can't use? Yet the idea of removing a car lane for a protected cycle lane or a bus lane that would be useful to me is scoffed at, why should their "road tax" be used to subsidize me being able to get around, they are generally too thick to realize that trains, buses and bikes reduce traffic and make areas quieter and less piled and congested, so everyone wins, drivers, cyclists, pedestrians, businesses and residents!
@@5688gamble neither does Australia, instead we have rego which is for registering a vehicle, which only applies to motor vehicles, and an alarming proportion of motorists don't even pay this.
There’s no such thing as ‘road tax’, it’s called ‘vehicle excise duty.’ Language matters and using the wrong name helps bad actors reframe the argument. The vast majority of road maintenance is paid for by local councils.
@@5688gamble trouble is most drivers don’t know this, because they are too ignorant, selfish or just plain stupid.
I am in the US and often ride around an islsnd that is a state park. This has a one way road and a speed limit of 25 mph. in the last 6 months I have had a car drive the wrong way directly at me and force to dive of the road.Last week a guy forced me out of the road from the bike lane. He stopped his car, got out and w❤anted to fight me. I just rode away as he screamed. A women pullef out from a side street into the bike and just stopped. I hit her pretty hard. At trial she claimed it was my fault. The judge did not agree and she had no insurance.
They are out there. Ride defensively.
Blimey, thats bad - I`m not too suprised but hadn`t heard to much about cycling in the US (media has it as just stunning big rides on gravel in the US), Dan
@@vintagevelos9517 I'm a roadie living in Michigan, and there are some nice roads in my neck of the woods. I don't run across that many aggressive drivers, but it can certainly ruin an otherwise nice ride when I do. Sadly these guys occasionally cause unbelievable carnage. Look up Kalamazoo bicycle crash in Wikipedia for instance. I used to ride there when I went to school, so that story hit me pretty hard.
Here are my 2 pence: I'm not a cyclist (not out of any hatred of the sport/transport, I just don't enjoy it) but I am an all year-round motorcyclist and I am also a National Observer with IAM Roadsmart, where I coach/mentor people to ride to an advanced standard, taking high inspiration from the police methodology and style of riding. Within our ride report sheets and our exam reports, there's a part about "Vulnerable Road Users", which includes cyclists. I personally feel that we as UK road users are unfortunately generally angry - I used to be guilty of that as well. We're being led by a government that doesn't care about the road infrastructure, doesn't maintain the roads and questionably uses funds - with the traffic and vehicle damage being caused by these issues, it's easiest to take it out on the closest thing to you and the thing slowing you down by a few seconds - cyclists. I see plenty of close overtakes and have reprimanded people about it; when I overtake a cyclist, irrelevant of their road position, I will use the oncoming lane/offside. I'm actually known by riding buddies to be touching the offside hedges with my pannier when passing cyclists. I don't mind having to wait to overtake or defend a cyclist. The only cyclists I mind are the same ones who would be idiots in a car or on a motorcycle - IE, running reds, riding on pavements that aren't cycle paths, tailgating cars and sometimes even me, filtering over solid lines, not giving proper signals, ETC. It's never a hatred, it's more a caution, same as I feel around BMW drivers, Audi drivers and weirdly nowadays Kia Sportage drivers
Thanks for that - I agree 100%, Dan
drivers are in a hurry, cyclists get in the way. media tells us (us and uk) that the roads are for cars. THEN, cyclists get bullied by aggressive drivers and are unsafe, so they start being aggressive themselves in attempt to "take back the road" making the situation worse. or that is how i feel from over here in the good ol USA. I try to remember the slower and less assertive cyclists (my loved ones) when I get angry and yell at drivers since more anger makes it less safe for them. I will try to do better tomorrow, because while i can handle my bike and move in and out of aggressive traffic, most people cant. We all need to do BETTER!
Yes indeed. I did the cause a disservice by fundamentally losing my shit and yelling and smashing on the window of the car that had scared the living shite out of me. In my defence the scare had been really bad and the anger hit like a wave with the adrenaline hit from fear…
Spent the rest of the day wanting to throw up and took the bus home… Nasty.
Not fun.
I'm a cyclist (usually 3-4 K miles / year) and a car driver and I can honestly say that some of the cyclists I come across while driving are giving the majority of us a bad name. Rude, unaware of what is going on around them and seemingly going out of their way to be awkward.
I live in a very popular area for cycling. I don't find cyclists rude at all. Yes, they can hold me up a little when I'm driving, but they have an EQUAL right to use the roads and it's this attitude that they are lesser road users that leads to a lot of the anger in drivers I think.
Sometimes we don`t help ourselves... Dan
I've seen that too. It causes me grief when some of the local hard core roadies do stupid and illegal things. It's gives the rest of us a bad name.
@@ChrisWhittenMusic On the other hand, I've been held up in a car on residential streets by very slow (less than 10mph) cyclists riding two abreast. I can understand more than a little frustration here. I think that's where the "as for to the right as practicable" rule should strictly apply. If I were a cop, they would have received tickets.
@@christopheroliver148 In the latest Highway Code you are supposed to overtake cyclists as if they are a car, in other words taking to the other side and f the road. I think people ride two abreast because they want to deter drivers from close passing.
I'm from the UK but now live in the cycling paradise of Netherlands, where I cycle most days. Here are the 2 biggest differences:
1. Infrastructure. Here every main road has a parallel cycle path, not to mention all of the off-road paths, most of which have smooth concrete or asphalt surfaces. Traffic lights have dedicated lights for cyclists, roundabouts are amazingly well designed, railway stations and town centres have covered bike parking etc etc. So cyclists and motorists rarely come into conflict, and cyclists are not tempted to jump red lights or otherwise misbehave. Everyone likes it, so offering more and better cycling infrastructure is a vote winner for politicians.
2. Attitude. Here the culture is to be respectful and considerate towards cyclists. This is largely because nearly all motorists are also cyclists, so understand and are sympathetic to the needs of cyclists. If I'm in my car today and come across you on your bike, I'm going to be considerate towards you as the situation may well be reversed tomorrow. Traffic education begins in primary schools and everyone cycles from an early age. People do cycle for sport and recreation, but mostly as an everyday means of transport, so the culture is different.
The solution? Get a lot more people cycling. This is a chicken and egg question; a lot of people won't cycle because they feel unsafe due to the lack of infrastructure, but while there are so few cyclists there won't be the political will to provide/pay for it. I think government needs to be more involved in promoting cycling, which has so many benefits for individuals, the economy and society. Must find out what Kier Starmer thinks about all this.
I`m in love with Netherlands infrastructure... Dan
I don't experience any hatred while actually cycling on the road but if you go on the social it seems a breeding ground for hatred
So true 🙁
I think the more cycling you do, there's more chance you'll get abuse. Just on one 90 mile ride I did yesterday I had a few close passes, and two people shouting at me for no reason.
@Markhypnosis1 in almost 20 years I have only ever had abuse 3 or 4 times verbally close passes happen I just simply try not to react to them and I'm doing about 5 to 6000 miles a year. I've been hit once car turning right across my path. A lot of it is just simply communication with drivers let them know your intentions and the odd wave to acknowledge them for waiting and never really have any issues that's it
@@wrightwoodwork Unbelieveable. Mind my mate always said he never got abused until he found out he needed a hearing aid.
absolutely
Most people hate cyclist because their dads said it when they were young. I find the attitude on the UK roads as beyond shocking. I think most of the drivers need a reality check on what they are doing and a long look at themselves once they enter the vehicle. I also believe that car drivers etc. need to be retested every so often to cut out the wrong attitude or driving issues. Cycling is as dangerous as the traffic around us, but it makes it worse that they simply do not care about anyone except themselves.
We were cycling on a narrow country lane when a school bus came up behind us. I knew it was going to stop in the next village, less than a mile further on, and as we were moving quite fast we decided not to stop and pull over. We do have a right to be on the road. But the buss driver started beeping us repeatedly together out of the way. I thought what kind of example is this setting all the children (and future drivers) he was transporting.
Most drivers don't hate cyclists, you just remember the 1% that do.
This is why I stick to mountain biking and keep off road as much as possible. It's really dangerous out there on the roads - feels bad enough just driving my car these days.
I see your point but thats a real shame to be off the roads, Dan
I would suggest that a pre requisite for a driving lesson or licence is that two years of cycling have been completed. that's how many people learnt to respect other road users . Experience educates.
I'd say that road planners should have to ride an area a week or two before getting any ideas for grand designs too. I've seen too many changes in my local roads where cycling impact clearly wasn't well considered.
Discussed this a few times with other riders.
I ride 70-100 miles a week and have for the last 3 years and haven't had any problems touch wood.
This is not a slight but the only difference between me and the folks i talk to that have problems, is the gear.
I don't know if it's that drivers often see fully lycra-clad groups on the weekend taking up the whole road (usually unwilling to tuck in) and associate the clothing with arrogance but i have always just worn board shorts, trainers and a tee shirt and they give me no grief at all......maybe they thing i'm goin to work and not out on the jolly that i am ;)
Defintely some truth there - but I like my period correct kit!!!! Darn, Dan
@@vintagevelos9517 the fact that this preoccupies you enough to make the vid means you aren't the types i'm on about bud.
For instance, i was riding the trails out the back of Henley Sunday so stuck the bike in the car. I was on a wide winding road with no markings but easily enough room for cars to pass eachother all the way and yet this weekend warrior heard me coming, dropped to the back of his group and then rode down the centre of the road . When they eventually pulled over, there was no wave or smile to thank any of the drivers in the tailback they had caused.
I ride predominantly trails, single track, bridle paths and the odd rural road on the weekends now just to keep away from these types.
I appreciate the positive and proactive attitude!
Many thanks, Dan
Am a cyclist and I ride with my 13 year old
Every whkend regularly 6/7 miles
But gets on my nerves when cyclsts ride side by side they see you and stubbornly don't move
Bad attitudes and give decent cyclists bad rep
Happens far to often near me not to mension it
Safe riding people x
Two abreast is clearly an issue on todays roads, Dan
I’ve been cycling on and off for over 40 years and am still shocked at the foul mouth abuse I get when on my bike from motorists. The worst area I would say was around London are and Essex. One guy in an SUV pulled up alongside me on a country lane, wound his window down and told me to get off the **** road you **** ***** ! I was so shocked I had to pull over and rest for about 20 minutes. Scared the living daylights out of me. Seriously WTF?
Sadly your not alone, Dan
I'm lucky enough to live in France, where in general, motorists will usually wait for a safe place to overtake. There are always exceptions who blast their horns just when overtaking you too close and you nearly fall off with fright ! I must admit that before I cycled regularly I didn't really realize how scary car behaviour is when they get too close to a cyclist.
Which part of France? Dan
@@vintagevelos9517 Midway between Paris and Orléans
Great video 👍🏻
Also love vintage cycling, all the stories and stuff.
Pantani is one of my all time cycling favourites. I loved watching the documentary about him. A true legend.
Pantani RIP, Dan
As a cyclist myself i see so many bad examples of fellow cyclists on the roads. Jumping red lights, not using cycle paths where provided, riding unnecessarily two abreast and dangerously in large groups and riding while wearing headphones unaware ofvwhat is happening around them. I can give an example of a group who stupidly and selfishly held me up on my way to work dawdling along two abreast in a 50 zone, I went to overtake and the rider with headphones in decided he was goung to turn into me almost causing a serious accident. We have to understand how this frustrates and gives cyclists a bad name. I generally have always liked riding alone or in a small group of two or three and have always respected other road users, always pulling in to singke file when a car is approaching and being fully aware of what is going on around me.
A lot of us ride well within the rules and with consdideration for others - als a lot of us don`t, Dan
100%
I don’t ride the road’s much anymore. I road MTB for years because of cars but I’ve gone gravel bike and riding cycle paths, trails ect. Unfortunately there is a lot more cars today from when I used to ride the road bikes back in the 90,s
Oddly a local bridle path near me is over loaded with walkers and dog walkers plus runners plus gravel riders plus horse riders - all trying to keep off the roads... Dan
Agree pretty much with what you said, but it certainly seems to vary depending what part of the country you are in. Here is south east Wales things are pretty good and much better than some parts of England.
Now Wales is great place for riding in comparison with a lot of the UK - though I bet its a bit tricky around Cardiff, Dan
@@vintagevelos9517anywhere in the urban areas of Cardiff, Newport and the built up valleys is still sketchy like any city, the rural bits such as Powys and Monmouthshire much better
Uk is the most aggressive country I have ride on, even on 3rd world countries people are not that aggressive toward cyclists, funny stuff.
Does seem that way - though reading the comments the US face some real challenges as well, Dan
I had a conversation with two PCSOs on bikes. They said they were fully trained and had done the course. I asked what their employer advised about the door zone? They didn't know what the door zone was. 😅
Until someone opens a car door into them... Dan
Either you ride on there wrong side of the road or you are in France. Of the two, I'd prefer to be in France where cycling is revered
I was just thinking the same - he's on the wrong side for the UK 🤔
Not really, it's another French Paradox. The biggest cycling events, part of the popular culture, but also many very angry drivers.
I am a cyclist and a driver of many years. When cycling I stop at red lights I let all vehicles pass me when ever safe to do so if the road is narrowed but still I get some vehicle users shouting abuse at me for no reason just taking their anger out of a stranger . It just shows what society is turning too not just for road users but in everyday life. There is no consequence anymore for bad behaviour where ever it is. In law and order generally the consequence does not fit the crime. Some Human beings need to be regulated with a general good rule of law and standards because if they are not and can get away with things they will it human nature for some. This conservative Government who have had power the past 14 years and used to be know for the government of law and order went the opposite way and it was to save money they cut road traffic Police by 30% they generally cut the police force and back room staff for many years and down graded anti-social behaviour in as just... live with it ? Yes Fat-Cat reference your comments there are arrogant selfish cycle riders and these need to be dealt with I agree but this blame culture is undermining society in general making it toxic. We will all pay a price going forward if things don't change. Society will become even more divided and aggressive thing are hard enough out there at present do we really want to live in a world like that.
Well put 👍
From the Netherlands, I cycle in the UK quite often, (lejog amongst other things) as a holiday and in my experience I get little abuse. But that might also be because I’m travelling rather than frequenting urban areas. The roads are bad in central England and around the big cities but wales, Cornwall, Norfolk, Scotland, the penines are mostly pretty good although intended for all vehicles mostly.
I would say, the grief is justified, but should be aimed at where it counts: the metropolitan/city/suburb areas because the countryside is usually fine and the mentality great.
Glad you`ve had a good experience - definatly a lot worse the nearer you get to densly populated areas, Dan
@@vintagevelos9517 one thing that help also, there are a lot of bigger, faster roads in the UK that technically you are allowed to cycle on but just should and mostly can avoid as a cyclist, you don’t want to be on a semi highway anyways.
Quite a simple explanation. A lot of urban and rural roads are very narrow in the UK and so cyclists are seen by drivers as a impediment to their progress. It creates anger and resentment.
How easy is it to avoid main roads? I would like to do 1-2 weeks biking southern england. I already did 5 days in Connemarra Ireland, and the main roads were pretty sketchy. New Zealand was also pretty bad on the main roads. I've got a drop bar touring bike, so gravel roads are fine.
But sometimes there is only one road..
So is it worse than Ireland or New Zealand?
South is tricky - A roads are very busy, smaller roads are often used as rat runs and cut throughs due to overspill from the main roads, rest of the UK is better, Dan
@@vintagevelos9517 thanks, will definetly take that in consideration!
Yep I agree the south is tricky, although you can come to the most stunning seafront in Sussex at Eastbourne and walk along it ,
You cant cycle it though because its locked in a 19th century time vortex where new fangled bikes are not allowed except on a main road with deathtraps
@@snowdrop629 I know Eastbourne well - that main roads is definatly not fit for cycling, Dan
👍 Great place but very old fashioned thinking, have subscribed , just getting back into cycling after50 year break!
I don't doubt the prevalence of these negative experiences, but in the interests of balance I should share mine.
Invariably around the lanes of rural Lincolnshire motorists pass wide and slowly, and cyclists facilitate passing wherever possible. Thank yous and waves are the norm, and it all contributes to a positive experience.
Lincolnshire - another area I might have to move to... Dan
Not jumping red lights would be a good start for us cyclists. It always embarrasses the hell out of me on group rides.
One less thing for drivers to get angry about anyway.
Hear hear! If you want to be respected, then you have to respect the rules yourself. I'm writing this as someone who no longer has a car but has several bikes.
@@christopheroliver148 Ah, lights... correct - we should not jump them - I do have issues with sensor controlled lights that don`t see us though - tricky, Dan
@@vintagevelos9517 Agree. Also given how modern bicycles have even less metal, even setting them sideways on the road will not trigger the sensor.
@@vintagevelos9517Sometimes you can trigger them by putting your shoes cleats on the signal wire line if you can see where it’s embedded in the bitumen. Works better for MTB metal cleats but the bolts on plastic cleats can sometimes work.
@@vintagevelos9517 And I have issue with temp lights left out for weeks after roadworks are complete.
I just happen to cycle sometimes. Other times I’m driving. Or taking a ride on my motorbike.
The treatment I receive from others TOTALLY depends on my vehicle at the time, even though I’m the same person.
Yep, Dan
Well said! I agree with all you say, particularly concerning cycling infrastructure. I have been cycling in the UK for 50 years now, and at nearly 80 I have to report that things have not changed much in Mankyland (Manchester). My only tip is to seek out the back roads and lanes and stay off busy A roads. Keep in mind that the antagonism between motorists and cyclists has existed since the 1900s when the motorcar became the predominant means of personal transport, and that the UK remains a class based society where the car you drive is an index of your social standing. Remember, too, that time triallists had to race in all over black so as not to offend passing motorists as late as the 1950s. Ironically, these issues remain with us even after the recent bourgeoisification (to coin a phrase) of cycling and the advent of the £10,000 bike. Cheers - I enjoy the channel.
Blimey, I didn`t know that about TT riders having to wear black - every days a school day, Dan
Used to think as you do, couldn’t see the point of cycle video cams. They don’t prevent collisions, and in the US police will not ticket motorists on video evidence. What changed my mind? A recent local crash between a cyclist and a motorcyclist coming from behind, both went down. MC claimed the cyclist moved out in front of him, and that was how TV news covered it. Nothing from the cyclist because he was in a helicopter en route to a regional hospital (fortunately injuries not serious). I’m familiar with the scene: a 45mph zone where motorists frequently speed, and the cyclist may have been trying to turn left (across the road) onto a side road leading to a small town.
PLUS two car/cyclist collisions which left two cyclists with hospital bills alone of $180K and $250K, even though both recovered fully (in one of the incidents another cyclist died).
Which reminded me of a hard training crash I had years ago (steel bike, hair net helmet), no car involved AFAIK. A bad concussion, knocked out, permanent loss of memory of the period before the crash and the incident itself.
The point is that if a lawsuit results, you may have NOTHING to offer as a witness. Video can be your witness, and may mean a quick settlement. Also, I sometimes review a sketchy situation on the road to see if my memory is correct and if I missed seeing something.
The cams just sit on the bike and run, I don’t think about them at all while riding.
Fair point - I guess its the guys who almost go out looking for bad driving are just kind of missing the point of riding, anger breeds anger though evidence would be very usefull, Dan
@@vintagevelos9517 Cyclists who go out looking for bad driving must be a rarity, I’ve never met one. No need to look for dangerous driving, it comes to you, probably more often in urban areas than around here. What happens is that drivers don’t comprehend why bicycles are doing what they are and, in a narcissistic way, assume that cyclists are just trying to annoy specifically them. And respond by doing things to punish the cyclist, endangering them, and provoking the understandable outraged response when someone intentionally and unnecessarily endangers you. Cyclist, still upset, may post video, for various reasons. And then victim-blamers claim cyclist went riding looking to be endangered. Seriously?
Motorists (and commenters lacking experience in cycling in traffic) don’t grasp how difficult it is for cyclists to see what is going on behind them. Because cyclists are balancing, they must devote attention to micro steering adjustments to stay upright (something experienced riders forget that they do!), and also scan for threats ahead. They can’t ride along looking backwards, must make do with glances. And because they use both hands for braking, they can’t simultaneously brake and signal.
On a ride, I’m looking to enjoy cycling along, savor scenery, and get where I’m going reasonably efficiently and quickly (in a city, faster than a car plus no fuss finding a place to park). I WANT motorists to pass me as long as (a) they do it safely and (b) a queue ahead doesn’t make passing pointless. It’s easier to deal with their antics if they are ahead of me than when they are behind. I don’t think I’m superior to anybody, I just want to be left alone to do my thing. And I don’t think I’m alone in this regard.
I resisted using a GPS computer until I realized I could lay out routes incorporating at least some low-traffic roads and have the GPS guide me along eliminating having to remember street names and peer for signposts. I’m not afraid of traffic, it’s just more peaceful (and beautiful) on back roads. I also find the Varia tail radar extremely helpful, letting me know when a motorist is approaching from behind, displaying their distance and speed - no surprises. And records passers' data every second, storing it for later use if needed.
I try to make a point of waving to motorists who pass me safely (it costs me nothing). The passer may not even see the wave, it’s really for other drivers coming up from behind, so they know (a) I’m a friendly guy and (b) that was a nice pass, now they can try to do the same. I quit waving motorists by me because too often a vehicle suddenly appears in the oncoming lane, rendering a pass unsafe.
P.S. I also have a LOT of miles in cars & pickups, and on motorcycles.
@@paulflory3532 I am new to road cycling and found this comment helpful. Cheers!
In Tasmania Australia, log trucks are the big issue, which sometimes cut blind corners at well over the limit
I can well imagine, Dan
Sorry to hear about the road rage in the UK. I don't think it's as bad in the US, at least not in the SF Bay Area where I live.
I like your suggestion of not responding to angry people.
Two more things I try to do:
1. Being considerate to both drivers and pedestrians. You mentioned letting cars pass and not running red lights.
2. Avoiding busy roads or roads with stressed drivers.
Yep, I think us riders taking a nicer mental attitude on the road makes difference - buts its a challenge to keep smiling and let it wash over you, Dan
I live in the East Bay. I also feel it's not that bad. I commute 4 miles to work x 5 days a week. (and back). I let cars passed me by, respect red lights, etc.
Problem is that everyone rides on the wrong side of the road
:) Dan
I’ve noticed on the continent that many cycle lanes are on the other side of the hedge rows giving clear separation between cars and cycles. Our road space is so limited so we need to open up more routes away from the roadside.
Any form of vegetation between the carriageway and cycle lane helps keep them clean. The ones I ride to work are directly by the roadside (who am i kidding, it's just a pavement with a blue sign above it...) and get swept about once a year and are covered with glass and other crap within a fortnight. Having a whole hedge between is nicer, less noise, no spray from passing traffic etc.
@@PeatCowman The UK infrastructure will always be a challenge - the road systems were designed for horses then AUstin A35`s - not Range Rovers.... Dan
Do you use a fluffy wind-shield for your microphone, if not consider purchasing one
Sort of - working on it - this video is a lot better than the last chatty one, Dan
I am a cyclist. I've been knocked off my bike several times by drivers most recently by a caravan. I get fed up with cyclists choosing the road over cycle lanes. Its not all about Strava, its about safety. I also share driver frustration with informal peletons. Why should cyclists be allowed to create a large slow moving obstruction for their sport?
Sorry to hear you`ve been knocked off more than once - guessing the caravan driver pulled in too early and swiped you? I love Strava but also love cycle lanes - I use them whenever I can but would love loads more of them, Dan
Great video! Did you record it with a mirrored lens as I don’t understand why you are riding on the right side of the road being in the uk? Just curious. Otherwise, the hatred for cyclists is a global pandemic. But I feel like it is getting better here in Ottawa. Slowly though.
Ah, I was in France for this one, Dan
@@vintagevelos9517 thanks. I love the advice near the end about our responsibilities as cyclists. I have always believed that getting along with the drivers as being the best way to create good karma between bikes and cars.
@@GeneVilleneuve For sure - most of the issues melt away if you remove the tension, Dan
I love your channel. Like me, you enjoy retro kits on crap UK roads!!!
I retired a few years ago and find cycling outside of commuting hours to be a far less hassle. Its a cliche, but white van drivers are the most likely to overtake too close (time is money ..). The majority of drivers are respectful and, in turn, if i think i am holding someone up, i will pull over. Having a bike radar is brilliant as I can judge when to quickly look backwards to signal to a driver that I know they are there. One last thing, I once bought a top that was similar to local football colour - not a good idea.
Bike radar - great idea, football, less so... Dan
Just back from a cycle, my usual Largs Greenock 33ml round trip. My bike?. A 2006 Specialized crossroads, Alloy frame and rim brakes. I am 66yrs old now. Driving has got worse. Over the past 4yrs a lot worse. People have been made to fell scared { 2020 thing } they have been coerced, bullied, and pushed, and now they are being fleeced for gas,elec, food, fuel, well everything really. I think that's where the anger comes from, but we need to take our anger out on the people that are causing this misery, and not each other.
Everything you said, Dan
I think that a small but significant number of people in the UK are just plain nasty. I'm 70 and I've seen this develop over the decades. It's not just cycling, it affects all activities. My current policy is to ride on the pavements where possible, ignore other road users, give way when it's the cyclists RoW, don't wear hiviz as it just winds up the idiots even more. I'm on the verge of giving up. It's just so horrible.
Your not alone - I`ve spoken with plenty of cyclists who feel forced off the roads onto pavements - good cycling lanes would really help with this, Dan
I ride in Scotland in the Borders area and I find that the attitude of the driveres around here is actually getting better.
This is a prime area for cycling ethusiasts
There are of course alsways the odd idiots, especially in souped up cars with 4 inch asshole sized exhausts who scream at you for simply being there. But for the majority of cases, things look quite good.
I also tend to indicate to them when they can pass me, by waving them through and at the same time indicating to them " pass at slow speed" by pushing my hand down to the ground.
This usally works quite well especially if the differential speed is not too fast and drivers thank me by waving or indicators blinking. When you know that such a a close pass is coming you are prepared and it will be OK.
And when I am in a situation where thy CANNOT overtake me safely I ride very defensivly in the middle of the lane. There are a few stretches on the roads around here where a long stretched out curve is going on for ever over several hundred yards and cars get stuck behind you and if that is the case, I might just stop and let them pass.
Hmmm... maybe if the area your in see`s an increase in cycling as a good thing (cafes, bike shops, hotels etc.) then attitudes can change fast - and I think its attitudes that are the biggest issue, Dan
Out in Herts I find motorists are mostly (not all sadly) considerate and leave plenty of space when passing. I use a mirror to look out for vehicles coming up fast and close and I wear a fluorescent yellow top. At junctions and roundabouts I try and make eye contact with anyone in a position to hit me, plus hand signals and “body language” to make it clear where I’m going. Wearing tinted cycling glasses seems like a bad idea because it prevents eye contact and makes you look like an alien!
Your spot on - eye contact is king as are friendly handgestures when negotiating tricky junctions and roundabouts, Dan
Wow Dan, a hot and sensitive topic this one! For perspective I live in Adelaide, Australia- home of the Tour Down Under. Even here, where cycling is extremely popular we experience similar levels of anger towards cyclists. Our government has improved infrastructure and most main roads have a dedicated bike lanes - so no excuses there. Some motorists just enjoy the idea of hassling cyclists. We tend to ignore most of them and just get on with it. I’ve seen some bad drivers and bad cyclists on the road. Wish we could all just get along and enjoy the day. I agree 100% with your comments re ‘stealth’ clothing etc - madness!! I’d wear Christmas tree lights if I could, to make me more visible. Great work ☕️🚴🏽♂️
Thanks, I could live with the grief if we had less potholes and more cycle lanes - and your weather.... Dan
I live in the US, bike 13 kms round trip to work x 5 days a week. Use my Toyota all weekend and I respect bikers. A lot of us do bike and ride. Respect and be respectful.
Amen to that, Dan
Thanks for the video. Firstly, I agree with everyone's comments below and I thank you all for the input.
It is JEALOUSY in many of it's forms.. Perhaps they are too lazy to get out of their cars and pedal for exercise and we remind them each time they see us.
In USA and Britain too many people have embraced the car culture. They have invested their lives, livelihoods, and image in motor vehicles and the perceived power it gives them. A bicyclist's fuel is food, not petrol. Perhaps auto drivers are jealous of that. We don't have a mass debt buying and maintaining a bicycle like auto ownership. Perhaps the fact that many cyclists stay physically fit by using our calories to fuel our bikes flusters auto drivers because they lack will power to get on a bike to exercise instead opting to put the pedal down to get to the nearest drive-thru and pig out on the largest and latest fat burger whilst setting in their sporty auto feeling superior to the older model parked in the next stall. And then their are those people that just do not like to see other having a good time, justifying, in their minds, their road rage.
I have purposely been run off, or pushed off the road, when in bicycle lane by vehicles with drivers and passengers yelling an screaming and throwing garbage at me in USA. It's getting worse not better.
I agree with the comments of @anthonymarsh880. USA/UK angry/entitled people but I would add ignorance.
All in all, I don't like to cycle in USA these days for many safety reasons; and now UK on that list because thanks to this video, I had not realized this problem in UK. I will stick to Europe mainland and New Zealand. USA and Uk have not seemed to have acknowledged the big bucks in tourist industry derived from cyclists as the cycle friendly countries cash in! (except the communities all along the USA rail-trails system certainly do.)
I am just one person in the thousands of cyclists doing that. France is my next long tour, 90 days Schengen for the wine! Good luck and good cycling....😃😃
France is a joy to ride - and the wine - and the cheese... Dan
Spot on! . Dificult to see how things will go. Another 5 to 10 years we could start seeing autonomous vehicles ( car/ minibus size) circulating, to be hailed by the roadside and which can dynamically route their way picking people up and dropping off carrying multiple people along the route . This will give the impetuous to overhaul our very inefficient trafic light systems to improve flow. It will be interesting to see how cycling fits with that ...as you say the best solution is separation but a lot of towns don't have the space in city centre.
There`s no easy answer but things need to move in the right direction, Dan
Self drive vehicle will become a thing of the past be great to see miles of tail backs because the AI doesn’t think it’s safe to pass the cyclists 😂 no doubt the verbal abuse and things thrown from windows will continue tho
At 42 I’ll prob be to old to enjoy drivers not being able to be aggressive 20 years from now when it’s all AI controlled
As a cyclist ,motorcyclist ,car and for a while truck driver can see all points of view. Living rural and lots of narrow lanes see's the idiots in groups riding two abreast quite fast coming at you round blind bends on a regular basis. Dog walkers other cyclists all ignored as the really don't want to move over to a point of near collision experienced a few times once on bicycle once on motorcycle.
I ride with a mirror fitted all cyclist should as like to see what's going on behind me. Unlike the two cyclists I came across on motorcycle ride with traffic behind them and ambulance on blues. Totally oblivious to emergency vehicle. Also its no hardship to move or pull over and let traffic pass. Its quite rewarding when people wave or pip horn or flash hazards to say thanks for being what we all should be and thats simply courteous to all other users. Being told by a cycle race Marshall that you cannot cross public road as there is a race on is the epitome of arrogance and ends with the usual reply of 4Q we live here you lot don't. Haha
Ah, our sensible, tolerent society... Dan
@@vintagevelos9517 Nobody ever said we have to be tolerant ever. Haha
I live in a horsey area, never seen anyone abusive to a horse and rider. More people have cars and a lot more people are cycling in the last decade or so from what I've noticed. We have a lot of national speed limit country roads near us, when you come across 10-15 cyclists riding 2 to 3 abreast it can be a little annoying, apart from that what's the problem? Most of the time cyclists keep up with traffic in my area. Since lockdowns certainly, a lot of car drivers have forgotten how to drive! The roads only work if everyone is considerate to each other, but it would be disingenuous to suggest all cyclists are saints...
Yep - suprised you don`t get grief riding a horse on the roads - I know a couple of horsey riders and they get a tom of grief round here, Dan
I have, there’s plenty of incidents of horse riders being killed by aggressive and speeding drivers and even a sad case in South Wales where a speeding driver crashed into a horse drawn funeral cortège in which at least one horse was killed. My wife has horses and she’s always getting stories from her friends pretty much the same as we cyclists hear about nasty aggressive or just plain incompetent drivers.
@@huwsalway4099 "there’s plenty of incidents of horse riders being killed" it was 3 equestrians (and up to 52 horses) in 2023, the highest number since 2018. On average 100 cyclists are killed every year.
Cycling infrastructure goes a long way. Here in my area we have bike lanes, MUP's/bike paths, and of course normal sidewalks. All of these allow riders a zone that's not intruding on cars. Thus allowing the cars to zoom past at their normal speeds and be unhindered.
I agree with the mental shift too, I think it's just a hard time for most people and instead of exercising or venting anger another way they let it out while driving.
The problem with the "mixed use" bollocks is cyclists then end up being seen as a hazard to all those dog walkers, mums with push chairs, smartphone zombies and joggers wearing big ear muffin style headphones and completely oblivious to their surroundings.
In my area, if I were to commute the 4 miles to town centre and back home on these I would be doing it exactly at the time of the dog walking / jogging hours which makes it nearly impossible to make progress at a decent speed as I have to come to a stop every 50-100m to give way to a dog walker. And all those dog walkers are precisely the same people who, when driving their cars, tell cyclists to get off the road and use the "cycle lane".
The main issue with MUPs is speed restrictions. There is a nice MUP that helps me avoid traffic after one of the local 40 mile loops, but it's posted as 10mph. Even completely toasted after a hard workout, I'm still going to be doing 15 during cool down.
You're totally right that the UK is so different (worse) than other places. The 'car-is-king' attitude is completely ingrained and everything stems from that.
I was once riding the French Alps with my young son. Almost every car either waited patiently behind until safe to overtake of gave plenty of room. Mainly French, but also Belgian, Dutch etc. So we then have a really scary close pass - what's on the car's number plate? You guessed it, a UK sticker. But even crazier, this car had bikes on the roof so were clearly cyclists as well!
Its when you ride in Europe you really feel the difference and just how wrong the road system has got in the UK (or at least the South East), Dan
I think the big thing is how the riders ride on road and slowing people driving cars. I think people who are cyclists are understanding when driving and see a fellow cyclist, but people don’t ride and in a hurry get mad seeing a cyclist on the road. I was stationed in the UK for two years and the roads around the base were very narrow which makes sharing the road more difficult.
Our roads are just small - leads to a lot of issues that we`ve done nothing about, ever, Dan
Re club rides - 2 abreast is ok provided there are no more than 8 riders per group ie so that the car only has to overtake a short group occupying no more space than a minivan. If there is a lot of oncoming traffic then the group should go to single file and let the cars squeeze past. Being considerate to drivers will go a long way to changing public perception and attitudes towards cyclists
Most of the time I don't get any issues from other road users. However there is the odd one now and again. But I just tend to ignore it .
Ignoring them is the best thing to do - sometimes difficult but the best, Dan
Surprisingly I think drivers are quite good in uk (Shropshire) as long as you are behaving. I never faced any pb! Fingers crossed it will continue
(PS: I am french)
Zut Alors.... does sound like drivers are calmer the further North you go, Dan
Just an odd question, Why are you recording this while riding on the "wrong" side of the road ?
Ah, was in France for this one - easier to talk a lot as a lot less traffic, Dan
I dont take it personally. My own experience has told me that the drivers that hate cyclists actually hate themselves more.....thats what makes them lash out. Just give them a smile and let them go, knowing how worked up they'll be all while I pedal on wondering what I'll have for dinner tonight. Hint it won't be a pizza like Beta male in the Audi.
Audis are always driven by a special type a c***
Spot on - I do my best to let it wash over me - imagine their blood pressure... Dan
Not only UK , same in Sweden and lots of other contries.
Darn, you Swedes are really cool... Dan
Same in Australia. It's only road cyclists. I hardly do it anymore. Running or off road is way better.
Running really hurts... Dan
Lights, lights, lights and flashing lights - all day everyday. When wearing hi viz or reflective put it where there's movement - shoes or legs - stay safe!
Or some fine Dayglow yellow period Mercatone Uno... Dan
I ride half the year in Brittany and half in U.K in Brittany I get friendly tooting, thumbs up and waves from motorists, the U.K can be somewhat different, maybe it’s the pressure on space?
Definatly pressure on space - too many road users, not enough infastructure - Brittany, on the other hand, is epic for riding, Dan
Thanks Dan , very interesting subject & some great comments below, I commute & it’s definitely get worse trying to find a quiet window in between different rush hours is becoming almost impossible, we now have the increase in fast food delivery service traffic adding to our problems with riding into towns & cities, I wonder where this will all end up 🤷♂️
Hmmm... moving abroad one day? Might be the only solution, Dan
Unfortunately, not many people are taught the highway code anymore. Also, I used to ride horses ( in Cornwall ), and I've got to say cyclists had the same attitude towards horses that car drivers have towards cyclists. I now live in Spain, and on the whole car drivers are good, however the only problems I get with car drivers are from the UK, passing to close, cut infront after passing WHY?
Spain - now there`s a thought... Dan
One of the main factors in the UK is the simple
fact that its a small country and the population
has increased by 12 million since 1970 and the
car pullulation has seriously increased with it.
Also their are far more drivers less likely to
actually personally know someone who cycles
a these days and that is also a factor compared
too 1970 as well.
Yep, and we`ve really improved the roads since the `70`s... ah, nope, we havn`t, Dan
It's at least partly down to lycra and helmets, they make you look too different.
I ride a lot , always in normal looking clothing, still get back to fronts in cars but less, I reckon anyway, I could be wrong and all the blame lies with utter back to fronts in their mobility aids
Amen to that, Dan
I cycle in South Wales UK a couple of times a week on average. I only ride the country roads and I'm always polite and courteous to other road users. Most drivers, men and women treat me with the same respect though on occasion there's the odd one who let's his ego do the driving. Rule number one, think for everybody else on the road. 😊
Your turn to be El Presidente - you get my vote, Dan
@@vintagevelos9517 Cheers, Dan.
Well done, a considered and thought through video. There are definitely a lot of angry drivers out there but there are also a fair number of militant cyclists who won't go single file when a car approaches. IMO the anger has got worse since covid and the lockdowns. There needs to be education on both sides, but particularly for drivers.
Totally agree - we could all do better, Dan
Uk challenge isnt angry people, its the rain!
Darned right - got soaked again this afternoon whilst riding - plus it was cold! Dan
What about introducing a mandatory period of riding a bike on public roads for all new drivers as part of the driving test.. I don't think the answer is separating cyclists and traffic all the time, sure in certain places that is the answer. What needs to change is for drivers to realise how vulnerable cyclist are to vehicles on the road.
Now thats a fine idea - get them to ride a stretch of A road for a few days... Dan
I actually think they understand well, but they do not care.
From someone that is a cyclist:
I see many people on bikes out there, but very few “cyclists”…
I.e. There is a difference between someone that’s just riding a bike, and a real cyclist.
A real cyclist knows how to position themselves for their safety, a real cyclist performs visual checks and uses gestures before making lane changes etc, a real cyclist knows that riding 2 or more abreast is better than riding single file with large spacing between each bike, a real cyclist has lights (even in daylight if you know you’re going to be riding between bright light and shaded areas etc) and wears more visible colours, a real cyclist wears a helmet, a real cyclist doesn’t blatantly ignore the highway code and traffic law just because they don’t want to slow or stop due to traffic conditions or toad signs etc.
Tbh, there are many many more points to raise but, in my view there is a very obvious difference between folk on a bike and “real” cyclists when out cycling, motorcycling or driving the car.
I love seeing real cyclists out and about, even if it causes me to drive slower at certain times, as you know what, it has almost NO impact on my overall journey time at all…! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
What does frustrate me, when i’m on a bike or any form of transport, are tosspots out cycling that have absolutely no idea how to cycle or do so legally and/or safely.
The same could be said for moped drivers.
Omg, some of them ate motorcyclists that happen to be riding a moped, and some of them are just “on a moped”, and here again, you can REALLY tell the difference…
Can`t help but add teenagers on no-legal hi power e-mountainbikes seem to be really bad at following any sort of rule, certainly in the South East - a growing issue, Dan
@@vintagevelos9517 Ah yes, the electric scooters and non-pedal-assisted bikes that go well above the speedlimit, yeah…
I’m all for allowing it tbh, but, non pedal assist should be classed as a moped and need a licence.
Anything under 14/15mph then fair do’s, but my god, so many people need to be educated how to use the road, not just the car drivers (and by gum that are some bloody terrible car drivers out there).
I’ll often wait for a BIG space for an overtake when over taking a cyclist, as i do NOT trust the cars behind me to make the same consideration and are very likely to just blindly follow me.
I like the adopt-a-cyclist / adopt-a-motorcyclist approach that only a rate few vehicle drivers take, which is to stick behind them (longer than needed in some cases) to make sure at least 1 sensible person is driving behind them.
You see this a fair bit in really bad weather in europe with motorcyclists and cars/lorry’s, that will purposefully stay behind to offer them some protection from traffic that may not be paying full attention.
Do you this the sudden emergence of electric bikes has made the situation worse?
No; why and how could that be?
Don`t think so - when I drive in London you see some crazy cyclists (plus very good ones) on both regular and ebikes, Dan
When riding on my own I rarely get abused. When riding in groups it’s almost a 100% strike rate. My city has excellent bike infrastructure so that helps keep cyclists off main roads.
But ‘rarely’ isn’t acceptable is it? Why do people in cars feel entitled to abuse anyone?
The frustrated driver level soars when there`s two or more of you - up to a point - I note that when on Sportives drivers seem to kind of realise whats going on and calm down - strange... Dan
@@berenicebaker7191 Yes I agree. it isn’t acceptable.
Mate...Australia sounds as bad ifnot worse. Had one guy aggressively intimidate me a month ago before nudging my wheel. Kid you not how does another human attempt to harm someone. Don't think he had any idea he'd actually hit me but I'm bloody lucky I didn't go under the car. Fuck aggressive drivers. They should loose their licenses indefinitely.
By quite a margin the most aggresive and ignorant anti cyclist nonsense spouted on the internet comes from Bogan Australians. :-(
As I said my to mate if someone is brave enough to walk behind me in the street throw something at me and demand i get out of their way I have no problem them doing it in their car
But guess what never happens people are very brave when in their metal box and a quick escape
Pure cowardice
Suprising how brave someone is when driving a 2 ton lump of steel around, Dan
One issue is that cyclists can result in a blockage on busy roads because motorists want to put so much space now between the cyclist and the vehicle that wants to pass, they are incredibly cautious in overtaking the cyclists and if the other side of the road is busy, then its even more of an issue. This brings the traffic down to possibly 12km to 25km per hour, usually way below the road speed so to speak. When groups are two abreast, this is even more troublsome and causes a long tailback.
Cyclists are currently perfectly in their rights to use any road except motorways. So there is perhaps an argument to say that some busy roads are not suitable for cyclists for these reasons and also saftey concerns for both parties.
That would be a big shame to accept that lack of infrastructure would legal drive cylists off the roads when we all know active travel is to be encouraged - cycle lanes, no matter how poor are the answer in my opinion - or maybe restrictions on vehicle size - I was looking at an Austin A35 family car the other day... Dan
Your right in what you say,
I cycle and drive so I can see both sides, but what I like to do is when cycling on small lanes is pull in to let traffic pass, it’s a win win, I’m happy no car following me and they often wave very happy! People.
Your a better man than me - I`m happy to get as far over as I can and love a cycle lane no matter how small it is but don`t think I`m calm enough to pull over, Dan
No.1 vast investment in public transport and modal filters so buses can travel freely. No. 2 legal obligations to build widespread cycle infrastructure city, town and country. No. 3 installation of road crossings/zebras on busy side streets, requires updating of existing laws that say a flashing beacon is required - they work in private car parks so why not elsewhere?
Darn, I like those 3 wished - Bikepackingadventures for President!!! Dan
Of course they are hated, they hold cars up for 5 seconds!
Sometimes less - I seem to get a lot of grief from cars on the other side of the road... Dan
Level crossings! There's plenty in SE UK, and the anger level of the car owners when the barriers remain down after the 2-3 train!?! We cyclists are not the most hated.
Good point, Dan
I would say the majority of cars are pretty forgiving around London, Essex and Hertfordshire. If you do something like block a car from passing you might get a toot. The majority of negative experiences I have had are with van drivers that are probably on the clock normally rushing to get to their next job or have woken up at the crack of dawn on a Saturday or Sunday to make a bit of money.
If I was in their position running late all the time coming up against cyclists everywhere it would wind you right up. Not to mention drinking coffee all day in order to stay awake on the road.
Oddly enough I find the van drivers around here better than the car drivers - as long as you expect them to stop at anypoint and jump out for a delivery, Dan
It's a world wide issue. I'm from Singapore and we are hated as well. Lol... Our neighbour, Malaysian riders are also hated. 😂
Darn, thats a shame, Dan
As a pedestrian a few reasons why we don't like cyclists that much.
Especially in London, cyclists tend to ride on pavements, even though this is against the law. They also sometimes ring their bells for you to get out of the way on pavements even though again this is illegal.
They sometimes run red lights even when pedestrians are crossing.
As a driver:
Some cyclists don't give enough space for cars to pass.
Some run red lights, don't signal with their hand when turning, and ride really irregularly making navigating around them difficult.
Ah, city cycling... no space for cyclists on the road, not allowed on the footpaths... and then we do`t help ourselves by not following the rules - though when you say "Some cyclists don't give enough space for cars to pass" I`m guessing thats not quite what you mean - cycling code is pretty clear its the cars responsibilty with a minimum of 1.5m space required for a safe pass (in case the cyclist falls off so you don`t drive over their head...), Dan
@@moneyboyok, I think there needs to be a lot better education to everyone, that we all - walkers, cyclists, drivers - pay tax for our road infrastructure. It does not belong to motorists, with everyone else just tolerated because drivers are so generous! There will occasionally be a designated cycle lane but unless it is maintained it is sometimes just a pot holed menace. I also think drivers should always remember that given the sheer power at their fingertips a few minutes ‘dawdling’ behind some cyclists or horse riders can very easily be made up.
Nice coffee cup! Mondrian's art work!
Plus a La Vie Clare cycling tie in... Dan
@@vintagevelos9517 Yep!! Good video though
Thank's, Dan!
In the country ,I find groups of cyclist very good and considerate, solo cyclists are not as roadsmart as will wave you on when unsafe.
In the city I find the standard of cycling terrible,.99.9% or cyclists jump red lights, at night many of them wear dark clothing and don't use lights. WIll ride 2 abreast holidng up traffic so they can chat. Most cyclists never look behind them before changing direction or signal. AT traffic lights. Even if you the only car at the lights, they will go infront of you into their cycle box and force you to crawl behind them instead of just letting you go.
Cycling is my main form of trasnport just now. I dont really have issues with cars whether on a bicycle or tricycle. Being an advanced driver and rider though , nothing really bothers me , no matter what I ride or drive.
I'm not bothered by most things car drivers do, but only report them if they have a bad attitude aswell, such as a landrover that cut me off to tell me I must ride in cycle lanes which is not the case; at the tijme I was in primary for hazards ahead which they clearly clueless about .
City riders are another bread altogether - and your right, 75% of my riding attention is the road/potholes just ahead of me, Dan
It doesn’t matter about likelihoods of a collision with a cyclist against a pedestrian. It’s about the outcome. Life changing injuries can be sustained, by both parties, and the death by dangerous cycling is the ultimate charge in the ultimate situation. Some cyclists are extremely reckless when cycling in places they shouldn’t or in shared spaces. Being in charge of any vehicle is a responsibility that everyone who does it should be taking seriously. Close passing pedestrians is just as dangerous as cars close passing cyclists.
We all have to take responsibilty for our actions - though there was already laws in place... Dan
@@vintagevelos9517 like you were saying about how many angry motorists there are, taking responsibility for our actions should be preceded by understanding the potential outcome of those actions, before we execute them. Which a lot of people seem to lack, no use crying after the event.
Car and motorcycle driver and occasional cyclist these days.
Except that the casualty figures do not even begin to support your stance,
Over 40 pedestrians are killed in collisions while they are on the pavements every year, by motor vehicles, the average for cyclist collisions is
@@paulgoff5068 typical angry cyclist Paul. Why is it death or nothing? Saw a TH-cam clip of a cyclist hit by an e scooter. Broken bones, knackered bike lots of time off work, well out of pocket, police not interested. And he’ll have aches and pains and loss of mobility for the rest of his life. That’s a very comparable collision. Everyone has to do better.