This reminds me of way back in the '70s when I would take my 1963 International Scout to town and pick a red light race with the baddest sounding cammed out vehicle I could find. I would pull the third stick back into low range and yep .... Win the race. Ha ha.... little did I know at the time that I was learning about torque and torque multiplication!!! Oh the days!!!!!!
I like the Skunk works mantra. I do that in aviation daily. HP works well in the right place. Torque works everywhere. HP is a mathmatical equasion based on torque and time.
I owned a 2010 Roadglide Custom for 10 years traded it as a stage 4 head turner. Darkhorse bottom, HPI TB , V & H propipe,Fuel Moto power vision tune Loved this bike bot three years into this now completed build something happened. I got older, I retired, I thought I’ll have to get a three wheeler.Luckily I am in good shape I realized I still loved riding now I have the time to do more riding.Started looking around.Found a 2020 Roadglide S love this bike, traded my 2010 never looked back with mild stage 2 SE torque cam , V& H power dual exhaust and a tuner for this now 63 year old rider I now have what Kevin was talking about.Quick off the line ,handles twisties well, looks good and comfortable. Is there more to do ? Sure, lighting, maybe shocks, The best part is I have a bike that works for me today that in itself makes it money well spent. Thanks Kevin for bringing common sense to speed work .
Boy, was I surprised when I heard my name .........😯 Thanks Kevin for describing and sharing the principles of your Skunkworks operations! Always interesting to listen (even though, sometimes it can sound very complicated) and thus learn new things ! And get a new perspective on the subjects that you thought you knew! 👌👍✌️
Spot on. Give me an early rising, long , flat torque curve every time for the street. As a bike mechanic myself, I can tell you, I’ve worked on peoples bikes that were big on the high end and soft everywhere else. A cam with earlier events and some possible gearing changes and these people were all smiles! They forget all about that Dyno sheet with the big peak HP numbers they were waving around and actually have a motor that is a hoot to ride on the street with real world, useable power. Whether riding double and wanting to pass, or just playing with you’re buddies from light to light, having instant throttle response wins out every time over waiting for a big HP number motor to spool up enough to start working. Just when that big HP starts to kick in, all you’re buddies have stopped at the next light! Big low and midrange torque is the smile maker on the street, no doubt about it.
Absolutely agree. HP always used to be the big thing. But when you see a Chevy 350 beat a big block 400 you scratch your head....how when the Big Block 400 puts out massive horse power??? That's when I found out about torque/traction. The guy that had the 350 had more torque that the 400 did.
I’m in agreement, I’m a low end torque guy. I like the feel of coming off the line and ripping gears feeling that push backwards in the seat. Prime example; I ran a 327 in my Chevelle which was matched up from intake manifold, to manual valve body transmission to a 456 posi rear end. I beat 396 BB, 454 BB out of 14 races in high school I lost only one to a older gentleman that had a 55 with a 350 and 538 gears with slicks. His traction never slipped hence my only loss. So now I’m into bikes and installed a low torque cam and still figuring out a few tricks of trade. GOOD STUFF I’m a new follower keep up the good work Thank you Jimijon
Torque determines how fast you get there and Horsepower determines how fast you are going when you get there .. My 11 RGU only takes 15-20 HP to maintain 80 mph on a 2 or 3% grade ... Peak HP matters if we are drag racing .. If your engine's peak HP is 125 , and you never run over 3500 rpm or there abouts , then you aint got a 125 HP engine .. A note on Kelly Johnson's Skunk Works : slide rules and pocket protectors , working with materials never before used ..
It was explained this way to me as a kid. Torque is the work performed. Horse power is the rate of speed that torque/work is achieved. Maybe an over simplified explanation but it made sense to me when I was told.
That is a perfect explanation sir. Torque is "work" or "force". HP is "work" or "force" over time. At some point ill explain why TQ and HP always cross at 5250. Thanks for watching.
In Top Fuel the engine is run at peak HP and WOT the length of the strip. Modern rails have a hydraulic or compressed air driven progressive clutch to transfer that maximum power at the increasing speed. So, there is one application where peak HP is the most important thing... 😀
I agree, Peak HP doesn't mean SHIT!! TORQUE gets you off the line, TORQUE is what gives you the THRILL of acceleration and gives you the "seat of the pants" POWAH factor.. Once TORQUE has done it's job, HP only keeps you "at speed", but again, when you need to accelerate to give you a competitive advantage, then you have to rely BACK on TORQUE!! This is why Chrysler and even Smokey Yunick relied on Long rods, extended cam overlap, short gear ratios and 'low end' grunt" from high lift, mechanically advanced camshafts.
Great information, thanks! I have a 2010 Super Glide that I modified to 107 ci put in some cams and it now has 115 pft of tork and only 95 hp. they both peak out about 3200 rpm. It's a really fun bike with plenty of pick up. I'm happy with it
Great diagnosis between torque and the smile factor which is greatly underrated. Looking forward to seeing you all again. As always a great video. D & D. We love our t-shirts. They are very comfortable.
I love Torque. I don’t care about speed. 80 mph is fast enough for me. It’s how fast I get to 80 mph that counts. Big cubes on a good engine with a torque cam is my belief. My 131 M-8 delivers that.
I always wondered if Skunkworks had something to do with Kelly Johnson, now I know haha. He was a brilliant man indeed great way to run a business Kevin! And I too am a torque junkie. Nothing like that good hard pull all the way to 120mph😁
Great video. I want to see the power curve, not the peak numbers when discussing a twin-cam or M8 build. My dream engine is 110 TQ at 2,000 peaking at 130+ TQ around 3,500. Perfect power for my ultra-limited and riding style.
Great detail and explanation Kevin, completely agree that torque is where it's at. Do you consider a compensator in the primary truly necessary in a stage one 103? Considering going to a direct drive sproket and chucking the compensator in the primary. Many thanks for your expertise!
I would not be one to recommend running a solid front sprocket unless you are running a belt drive primary. Having a comp helps reduce shock load on the drivetrain and smooths out the ride a bit. Youre welcome.
Awesome Kevin, keeping the class room full as usual. Hey, quick remark/question about the torque values ....Is there an insitue condition needed where if the max torque reached at say 3,000 rpm could be constant throughout the Rev range up to the rev limiter cut-in.?? Over square or under square or square engine geometry, and ya, getting into flame and piston velocity.... I digress....Do Mfr's strive for that point or is it the grail that's out of reach?
a flat torque curve is more attainable with an M8 than with a twin cam. you really have only a 3000rpm window to make power on these things. if i can get a relatively flat curve from 2000 to 5000 rpm....that's awesome on a twin cam but can be tough to get.
I’ll still take a high rev engine anytime over a low rev high torq motor. Just my opinion. It’s in the eye of the beholder! Also have to disagree when you say high horsepower is heavier.
This reminds me of way back in the '70s when I would take my 1963 International Scout to town and pick a red light race with the baddest sounding cammed out vehicle I could find. I would pull the third stick back into low range and yep .... Win the race.
Ha ha.... little did I know at the time that I was learning about torque and torque multiplication!!!
Oh the days!!!!!!
yes sir yes sir. Hope you are well Max!
Totally agree with torque, you have to tell people that is exactly the same choice with cam.
I like the Skunk works mantra. I do that in aviation daily. HP works well in the right place. Torque works everywhere. HP is a mathmatical equasion based on torque and time.
I owned a 2010 Roadglide Custom for 10 years traded it as a stage 4 head turner. Darkhorse bottom, HPI TB , V & H propipe,Fuel Moto power vision tune Loved this bike bot three years into this now completed build something happened. I got older, I retired, I thought I’ll have to get a three wheeler.Luckily I am in good shape I realized I still loved riding now I have the time to do more riding.Started looking around.Found a 2020 Roadglide S love this bike, traded my 2010 never looked back with mild stage 2 SE torque cam , V& H power dual exhaust and a tuner for this now 63 year old rider I now have what Kevin was talking about.Quick off the line ,handles twisties well, looks good and comfortable. Is there more to do ? Sure, lighting, maybe shocks, The best part is I have a bike that works for me today that in itself makes it money well spent.
Thanks Kevin for bringing common sense to speed work .
Agree totally, never really thought about it,but torque is where it is at.
Boy, was I surprised when I heard my name .........😯
Thanks Kevin for describing and sharing the principles of your Skunkworks operations!
Always interesting to listen (even though, sometimes it can sound very complicated) and thus learn new things ! And get a new perspective on the subjects that you thought you knew!
👌👍✌️
You bet!
Spot on. Give me an early rising, long , flat torque curve every time for the street. As a bike mechanic myself, I can tell you, I’ve worked on peoples bikes that were big on the high end and soft everywhere else. A cam with earlier events and some possible gearing changes and these people were all smiles! They forget all about that Dyno sheet with the big peak HP numbers they were waving around and actually have a motor that is a hoot to ride on the street with real world, useable power. Whether riding double and wanting to pass, or just playing with you’re buddies from light to light, having instant throttle response wins out every time over waiting for a big HP number motor to spool up enough to start working. Just when that big HP starts to kick in, all you’re buddies have stopped at the next light!
Big low and midrange torque is the smile maker on the street, no doubt about it.
Awesome job Kevin.
Riding between 1800 rpm and up to probably 3200 rpm. On average guessing at 2300. I'd like more torque!!! Thank you Sir.
Absolutely agree. HP always used to be the big thing. But when you see a Chevy 350 beat a big block 400 you scratch your head....how when the Big Block 400 puts out massive horse power??? That's when I found out about torque/traction. The guy that had the 350 had more torque that the 400 did.
Torque is what gets you down the road!! Btw, great videos! Skunk works, SR71, and TR3Bs...to mention a few.
absoutely!
I’m in agreement, I’m a low end torque guy. I like the feel of coming off the line and ripping gears feeling that push backwards in the seat. Prime example; I ran a 327 in my Chevelle which was matched up from intake manifold, to manual valve body transmission to a 456 posi rear end. I beat 396 BB, 454 BB out of 14 races in high school I lost only one to a older gentleman that had a 55 with a 350 and 538 gears with slicks. His traction never slipped hence my only loss.
So now I’m into bikes and installed a low torque cam and still figuring out a few tricks of trade.
GOOD STUFF I’m a new follower keep up the good work
Thank you
Jimijon
Yes sir...what year Chevelle?
Another great vid Kevin....thanks for all you do.
Very welcome. Thank you Larry!!!
Torque determines how fast you get there and Horsepower determines how fast you are going when you get there .. My 11 RGU only takes 15-20 HP to maintain 80 mph on a 2 or 3% grade ... Peak HP matters if we are drag racing .. If your engine's peak HP is 125 , and you never run over 3500 rpm or there abouts , then you aint got a 125 HP engine .. A note on Kelly Johnson's Skunk Works : slide rules and pocket protectors , working with materials never before used ..
It was explained this way to me as a kid. Torque is the work performed. Horse power is the rate of speed that torque/work is achieved. Maybe an over simplified explanation but it made sense to me when I was told.
That is a perfect explanation sir. Torque is "work" or "force". HP is "work" or "force" over time. At some point ill explain why TQ and HP always cross at 5250. Thanks for watching.
@@KevinBaxter man I would love to hear why they cross at 5250 rpms..
It’s all about the low end torque to me. I never ride at 6000 rpm anyway.
And that’s 95% of Harley riders. I agree. You have the 5% that stunt and just rip high rpm highway all day
In Top Fuel the engine is run at peak HP and WOT the length of the strip. Modern rails have a hydraulic or compressed air driven progressive clutch to transfer that maximum power at the increasing speed. So, there is one application where peak HP is the most important thing... 😀
Love torque. 01 Dyna fxdx with an R+R 124. 140 tq. @ 4k rpm's. Scary quick.
Nice 👍
I agree, Peak HP doesn't mean SHIT!! TORQUE gets you off the line, TORQUE is what gives you the THRILL of acceleration and gives you the "seat of the pants" POWAH factor.. Once TORQUE has done it's job, HP only keeps you "at speed", but again, when you need to accelerate to give you a competitive advantage, then you have to rely BACK on TORQUE!! This is why Chrysler and even Smokey Yunick relied on Long rods, extended cam overlap, short gear ratios and 'low end' grunt" from high lift, mechanically advanced camshafts.
I have a 107 twin cam that produces 107 HP and 120 TQ. Torque is 110 at 2200 RPM’s. Throws me back in the seat. Awesome video. 👊
Right on....Thanks!
What's your setup ? ( Cam, compression, exhaust)
I'll prefer on the low end, 4th gear most of the time on the streets with the 10.5-1 compression ratio
Great information, thanks! I have a 2010 Super Glide that I modified to 107 ci put in some cams and it now has 115 pft of tork and only 95 hp. they both peak out about 3200 rpm. It's a really fun bike with plenty of pick up. I'm happy with it
Great diagnosis between torque and the smile factor which is greatly underrated. Looking forward to seeing you all again. As always a great video. D & D. We love our t-shirts. They are very comfortable.
Wonderful!!!! Yours is next ;) one piece at a time.
@@KevinBaxter we meant on our post that torque was underrated . I was only typing what I was told...lol.
I love Torque. I don’t care about speed. 80 mph is fast enough for me. It’s how fast I get to 80 mph that counts. Big cubes on a good engine with a torque cam is my belief. My 131 M-8 delivers that.
I always wondered if Skunkworks had something to do with Kelly Johnson, now I know haha. He was a brilliant man indeed great way to run a business Kevin! And I too am a torque junkie. Nothing like that good hard pull all the way to 120mph😁
Thank you Sam. And now ya know....
Great video. I want to see the power curve, not the peak numbers when discussing a twin-cam or M8 build. My dream engine is 110 TQ at 2,000 peaking at 130+ TQ around 3,500. Perfect power for my ultra-limited and riding style.
There are M8 124 engines out there making north of 140 torque at 2000 rpm.
another OUTSTANDING theory that is common-sense and intelligent.how do I get my 02 RK to you.
Thank you Martin. Give us a call to schedule and we can get that beast dialed in! 6782269651
Great detail and explanation Kevin, completely agree that torque is where it's at. Do you consider a compensator in the primary truly necessary in a stage one 103? Considering going to a direct drive sproket and chucking the compensator in the primary. Many thanks for your expertise!
I would not be one to recommend running a solid front sprocket unless you are running a belt drive primary. Having a comp helps reduce shock load on the drivetrain and smooths out the ride a bit. Youre welcome.
I think that horsepower is work over time, torque is instantaneous twisting force.
exactly.
Awesome Kevin, keeping the class room full as usual. Hey, quick remark/question about the torque values ....Is there an insitue condition needed where if the max torque reached at say 3,000 rpm could be constant throughout the Rev range up to the rev limiter cut-in.?? Over square or under square or square engine geometry, and ya, getting into flame and piston velocity.... I digress....Do Mfr's strive for that point or is it the grail that's out of reach?
a flat torque curve is more attainable with an M8 than with a twin cam. you really have only a 3000rpm window to make power on these things. if i can get a relatively flat curve from 2000 to 5000 rpm....that's awesome on a twin cam but can be tough to get.
Hp
TQ
I want both = Turbo
260/224 lil 88"
👍
👍👌
I’ll still take a high rev engine anytime over a low rev high torq motor. Just my opinion. It’s in the eye of the beholder!
Also have to disagree when you say high horsepower is heavier.
👍🇦🇺😀
Cant beat tha jerk👍😂