the Leica M has new competition | Pixii Max
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ค. 2024
- Sharing thoughts from everyone on this new Pixii Max camera, a digital rangefinder with a full frame sensor, M-Mount, and no LCD screen.
PetaPixel article: petapixel.com/2024/07/03/the-...
Pixii Max: pixii.fr
WEBSITE: www.mattdayphoto.com
INSTAGRAM: / mattdayphoto
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As a Pixii owner who switched to a m10... I am happy pixii still improving even if the camera was not for me....
overall build quality for a new camera company was great. and i did send the camera in for processor upgrade
Minor things i didn't like
- focusing patch compared to a leica was small
- shutter release felt ok but its just a button no soft release
- i thought i wanted a camera without a screen but i missed it. i normally shoot all my digital cameras with the screen off. but find it nice to check a shot without connecting to my phone
Things i really didn't like
- battery door was clunky mixed with not so great battery life it became a pain
- app didn't have a batch download (at least when i owned the camera not sure if it changed) and if you left on wifi battery life was impacted pretty bad.
- using a usb stick to take photos off the camera just dumb... it just adds way more steps then an SD card since you had to connect the USB and then download the files too it...
should be pinned. thanks for the info!
Was hoping you'd give some commentary on this. It's a steep investment but damn, I can't help but feel happy we're seeing more competition.
Competition to what? A Leica M11 is over $9k with tax. Leica is never going to reduce their prices.
@@bngr_bngryes but now we have other options GOOD options
The pixii max offers B&W DNG, auto send on your phone, and a 1/32000 electronic shutterspeed. I was not interested because of the crop sensor, but now I'm all-in for Pixii Max. I'm bias 'cause i'm french so... :P
I don't really care about crop factors or whatever, but it's a little disappointing it's still electronic shutter only from what I can tell. That means flash use is basically a no go.
Unless it is an electronic global shutter which can sync to very high flash speed like the new A9
if its the same flash shoe that was on cropped camera the flash shoe was a cold shoe anyways..
I have a Pixii Plus (the current model) and I admit there are times when I wish I could use flash with it. (Battery-powered LED video lights are a workaround but not as bright.) Still, my guess is that very few people will buy a Pixii as their only camera, and those who want to use flash will just use it with something else...
I've heard of pixii's cameras few months ago and, since I've never shoot in digital, this can be my way to go to digital photography. I love the fact that there's no screena dn it's a rangefinder, a thing that I want to use so bad in analog but never found the opportunity to have it, so this pixii camera can merge my whishes.
I mean, it's still 5k so I can't afford it, but maybe one day...
I feel similar about this and the Pentax 17. It's really cool to see someone do it. I got my first actual leica because I wanted a digital rangefinder and they were the only game in town, so competition in that space is great. But at the price and what you're getting, it just isn't worth it for me.
Very interesting!
I'm very excited to see how this camera works. Gotta get my hands on one!
I looked at their site and a YT video with the founder. Hardware upgrades should be available going forward. It is missing things that I don't care about so much and has everything I'd like. Quality control should be amazing since the core 5 people (most or all engineers) build all the cameras themselves. I don't like EVFs. This has manual focus, DNG as main output, auto exposure if you want it, no cards, simple interface. This is a great option in my mind. It's like a simple film rangefinder with a digital sensor. I have never used a Leica digital camera.
it's really interesting but few questions instantly: is it only internal storage with no SD slot? and is it only electronic shutter?
if there's non of it, it's truly a bummer, I don't need an analog of Zeiss ZX1 only to expect god knows what if internal storage breaks on me, and the issues with lack of mech shutter is obvious
I was really intrigued by the first pixii, wanted it as a backup cam, but couldn't justify the price. I don't have beef with that - I work for a smallish manufacturer too and know what it costs to make stuff. Wishing them well.
Idk why you would get a 24mp rangefinder for 4k when you could get a Leica m10 for roughly the same nowadays
One is 10 days old. One is nearly 10 years old. And anything beyond 24mp is useless anyways unless you’re doing billboard size photos.
Especially considering that m10 will probably hold its value, which is not a given with a pixii
One system will fit better than others. If you can't find a reason to use Pixii, then it's not for you.
Competition is good but I would keep using the M10 which I got for the same price two year ago. I wish Pixii is more aggressive with their pricing. They made a big deal about DXOMARK score for their previous APSC camera but if I care about any scores, I would get the Nikon Z8 or Sony A7RV which has very high technical specs but no Lecia color or user experience.
An M10 probably will do better at holding its financial value. On the other hand, every Pixii model ever made has been fully upgradable to subsequent models, which is not a given with an M10. I'm on my third model of Pixii and I've only bought one actual camera. That would be like if you had bought an M9 and then were able to send it back to Leica and have it made into an M10 and then an M11...
the big man just pumping out videos, love to see it
I don't do Instagram.
But yes, YES and YEEESSS.
Finally Pixii.
Now. The only thing I want is the storage to increase from those low amounts.
Definitely excited for the competition. Leica needs it! I've always wanted an M10D so this is interesting. But the argument to buy an M10 is valid as the M10 will keep it's value longer than a Pixii (my assumption).
YEAH BOI, thats great news. Finally a competitor to Leica.
If you are comparing this to a Leica or see it as competing with a Leica, might as well get a Leica. For $4K, you are pretty much in Leica territory if you look around. ✌
@@kualilo Maybe. However, you probably don't know the concept behind Pixii cameras either. You can send them in and have them upgraded. When a better processor comes out, you can have it installed. When a new sensor comes out, like in this case, you can send in your APS-C camera and poof, it becomes a full-frame camera. Which manufacturer offers that? :D
@@kualilo Its fully upgradeable - it's like a Leica M M240 & M Monochrome into one. And better than this, because you need only one for monochrome and ordinary RAW files.
Leica is a big mess for glasses wearers - they can't even provide a cheap 2 EUR rubber eyecup - like technically *every* brand does since decades. Its such a shame, and this usually for way >4K, but like 5500 EUR - go figure. No, you've to buy a 3rd party eyecup for like 30 EUR extra. It's such a lame & shame behaviour from Leica, no words. Since ever. I shoot since decades. And the snobbish & arrogant behaviour from most Leica users (no social insecurities ever) is the 2nd no-go, ever for me.
I use gear from all brands - not Leica. And i don't give a damn.
I would love this AND a Leica.
The biggest issue for me with Leica is I like 40mm and it's definitely a compromise without 40mm framelines. Maybe the Pixii will be better in this regard.
Was wondering about that too as a 40mm user. If they’re LED framelines maybe you can choose any focal length to display?
The 35mm framelines with a .72 magnification and a shaved down 40mm Summicron really are close though.
hAPPY 4TH OF JULY I ENJOY WATCHING YOUR VIDEOS
People that compare Leica M and Fuji Xpro on price alone sort of fall into this same trap of Leica M vs. PIXII price point, etc. It's a camera with frame lines but so much of the experience deviates from there. I think the PIXII is going to fit some people better than a Leica the same way Xpro will fit some people better. If more people could demo PIXII in hand I think we would be better off for it.
Excited and considering getting it. It’s a unique product. It seems they have an innovative approach to computational photography as well (their monochrome DNG/RAW is very interesting)
Id love to see you review it. Im getting an m10 soon but if it was comparable, id be willing to do the pixii just to encourage more digital rangefinders in the market
I noticed today that they finally had a price and preorder at BH…$4500 for 32gb and $4800 for 128gb. Availability in October.
Not really sure how I feel about it. I’m interested in the camera and it’s still about the same price as a nearly 10 year old M10. Just think the price is a bit off putting when 4000 euros is 4300 usd. That extra couple hundred of dollars is rubbing me the wrong way.
Hope you will get one to check out
I'm super excited. I love the rangefinder experience. I have some mirrorless cameras that I use when the work requires it, but my M is with me 95% of the time. I'm hoping to get my hands on a Pixii to see how I like it. Maybe it'll break my chimping habit. 😅
I think there’s a lot of neat stuff Pixii is doing with their UI architecture, and the revisions they’ve been willing to add in firmware. I’ve got a lot of respect for what they’re putting in there, and it does seem like a worthy Leica competitor-wild high-tech innovation vs classic impeccable build quality. I’m just not on the market for any rangefinder. Saving that much versus a new Leica is meaningful, however. And as I think about it, I’d actually still consider the original APS-C Pixii. The lens pair of a Voigtlander 21/4 and 40/1.4 would be such a neat kit.
My understanding is that the Pixii has sort of Tesla-level software features that strongly differentiate it from Leica cameras, but have also heard they hadn’t totally worked out all the bugs yet, so the camera could be a pain to use, esp. without a back screen…wonder if that’s still true?
Matt, I agree Leica sorely needs competition when it comes to the M platform. When film cameras reigned supreme Leica had LOTS of competition, Voigtlander, Konica, Canon, Nikon when it came to rangefinders. In this digital mirrorless age we need more competition and innovation like we have with mirrorless DSLR’s.
I have the M10-R and it’s the perfect camera for street and travel along with my Voigtlander and Zeiss lenses. I can carry the body, 4 lenses (28, 35, 50 & 90) with 3 batteries and they will last me for an entire week without having to lug a charger around. My ONLY major gripe with the M lenses and the no one has had the presence of mind to create these lenses with weather seals.
As for PIXII, they did what Fujifilm should have done with the X-Pro line. Their original APS-C camera uses the same processor as the X-Pro3. For less than $5K USD this new full-frame camera is a steal. The M10-R in good condition still goes for over $6K USD used. I really wish Voigtlander would get back in the game and release an M mount digital mirrorless to compete with Leica as well. Wishful thinking on my part I know. 😂
I have been shooting Pixii since the A1571. Good image always. I have the A2572 now and like it. I will upgrade to the Max. I am glad to see Pixii slugging it out with Leica RF's.
Hopefully the dynamic range is better on this new sensor.
Would I rather buy an M-10 or a Pixii Max? A Max absolutely because yes roughly same price but the Pixii has insane hardware and software features over like especially in places like their Monochrome.
Everyone is trying to make this a Leica competitor which is strange because it simply isn’t. Even if it were to be a “better” camera, that’s not why people shoot Leica for the most part. And if it were the same, well it can’t ever really be the same.
I read an article recently from someone at Bentley talking about how their cars have changed over the years but how he is also proud that they will still find a place in the grand collection. Part of this was the way he described “heritage” and I think it applies very similarly to Leica. Without going too off the rails on what heritage is. You can copy a Bentley but it will never feel the same or have the same presence or impact because you can’t fake heritage.
I think it’s a cool new camera that will be good for the market and help get more brands on board with possibly exploring more emotional camera designs. Look how Fuji designs influenced others over the last few years. I don’t for a second see the masses selling their Leica, their abstract emotional connection to their handmade tool and companion, their intrigue of a changing company through years of photography, their photographic experiences saved and layered in aesthetic brassing, their piece of Leica heritage just for this. Some may and that’s always a good thing, desire is strong. if sales stay strong as well after the hype and fomo has turned to desire then they will really be on to something in a market that does not have many options, much less competition.
Looking forward to owning one soon.
I know crazy price tag as well ‘ yaks ‘ cost of photography lol 😆 😅
Brand new Leica camera prices are crazy though.
its amazing since you can just keep upgrading it. It's better then giving leica 9k every 3-4 years for the new model. Will Leica come out with a leica M-L mount to try and squeeze MFG's off the normal M mount ?
You won’t be able to upgrade it forever because newer higher density sensors will have a different hardware interface and/or require more computational power. And about Leica, they hold their price quite well, so if you sell your current Leica camera, you won’t pay full price to upgrade.
the price of pixiis might hold value as long as the company exists and continues to offer upgrades and in theory the product becomes more a lifetime purchase. thats really standout.
Awesome news!
To recap: No screen; internal memory only (i.e. expensive camera repair if it fails); no mechanical shutter; priced as a used Leica camera; misleading “upgradable” claim (higher density sensors will require a different hardware interface and/or processing power). Also, the “special” B&W DNG function can actually be implemented in software on any color DNG from any camera (via bayer filter profiling). I’d also like to know the performance of Leica ultra wide lenses, such as the Super Elmar 21/3.4 on this full-frame sensor, as they require an ultra-thin cover glass, and perform horribly on non-Leica cameras.
You hat is hilarious. Those are my thoughts. The only way they will compete with red dot is if they can bring their price down at least a grand.
At that price point with little resale appeal why would you buy it over a second hand M10 for similar price?
Because Leica is for posers and defluencers nowadays, hipsters. And it's great, that a small french firm does have a cool new rangefinder, digital. The APS-C Pixii (26 MP) already wiped the floor with the M10 (36x24mm) in terms of DR, read DxO.
And the Pixii Max is now like a M Monochrom, plus ordinary M digital - one does need only *one* camera, instead of two, from Leica. And everything is being easily upgradeable, genuine sustainability. Sent into your (any generation Pixxi APS-C from 2018-2024) and upgrade to the Pixii Max.
The biggest practical reason, aside from being new, not second-hand: If it's like every other Pixii so far, it will be fully upgradable to future models. Plus there are a few minor advantages such as completely silent operation,a useful full-information viewfinder, and extensive connectivity. On the other hand, some practical reasons to spring for that second-hand M10, assuming you know the vendor and it has a warranty: It has a mechanical shutter, so you can shoot flash with it; finder magnification is a bit larger (0.74x vs. 0.67x); you'll probably get more shots per battery; and annoying yacht-club blokes will want to walk up to you to gas about their steel-rim Summicrons, at which point you can cosh them and make off with their Rolexes...
@@marcp.1752 Can't wait to spend 5k on a camera that will give me a lot of jello and will prevent me to use flash, what a bargain.
Hi, current Pixii+ user here. You make a point on the flash thing ( except that good quality cube led lights are available nowadays…) . Concerning the gello effect you were talking about, I’ve never seen one on my picts from Pixii, maybe you plan to shoot car races with a rangefinder camera ?
Because the DR of the old M10 is less than a old APS-C Pixii A1571, and this new Pixii Max features a fine 24.5 MP FF Sensor. More is really not being needed. Evey freak or hipster nowadays on YT poses with a Leica - it's lame. It's cheap. It's hilarious. Pixii is a fine, new, small brand from france. They design there rangefinders being upgradeable, unlike Leica - here, you've to buy a complete new rangefinder from the brand.
It can shoot both colour AND monochrome DNG RAW👍🏻👍🏻
It’s been out for some years now.
No LCD, no card slot, no screen… $4300. I get that options are a good thing, but I’d rather have my M10 with a similar sensor resolution, and the addition of a card slot and screen.
I just don’t get Pixii.
Electric shutter 🤔
Leicas have some serious QC issues. I know quite a few people who have had to send their cameras back multiple times for the same issue that constantly does not get repaired. Leica is so over hyped. Sorry but there are way more disadvantages to a rangefinder than advantages. People just like to shoot them because they think it's trendy
I think the tricky thing is when someone is choosing an M over a Pixxii Max ... and they've never seen a Pixxii in person or tried one out. There's no comparison in the history nor community to Leica either. That's a big leap of faith.
That said ... goodness gracious, "Pix-ee" is such a weak name ... I'm too shallow to get over it unless it was a stellar/lovely shooting experience. LOL
Say hello to Hippolyte Pixii [1808-1835], the Parisian instrument maker who built experimental apparatus for some of the most important scientists of the early 1800s. He also invented the AC generator, a device it's hard to imagine modern life without. Pixii is a French company, so this innovative young French guy (he died at age 27) is a very appropriate namesake!
@@jlwilliams cool back story. But still sounds childish to me. Oh well!
The only competition is what camera company can charge stupid prices for a camera that’s not worth the money. Period!
Still can't beat Leica M. Pixii has no mechanical shutter (no joy to shoot with) no FF sensor (if you're a big fan of using vintage MF lenses and see all the imperfections around the edges), reliability and repair are also controversial.
It sounds like you commented this video while watching it … the key point of this Pixii model release is that it is FF…
@@gregoryparrau6702 yes, you're right it's a FF at price of €3999 without having a mechanical shutter (I wish they could implement a mechanical shutter into this very camera). Where I live I can buy a brand new M10 at this price.
Almost same price with a Leica camera 🙄
Interesting can we have it for like 2k and some Swag 😎
In both the Leica M and Pixii, the cost of the rangefinder alone is $1500. No way a rangefinder is ever going to be that cheap nowadays.
sorry but does the person asking for an entry level leica m even understand what he/she asking?
the leica m is already so "dumb down" I can't see any further "downgrades" except material for the body which has not stopped leica from changing the price point much --> leica M11 silver vs black is an example.
I don't need any New Overpriced Cameras including Leica M!! I'm very happy with my XPro3 Rangefinder with Voightlander manual focus lens. 😊
For £4k, just buy a Leica M10 used 🤷♂️
5000 dollars, no card slots, only 128GB (my smallest sd cards are 256GB and cost around 20 dollars) and worst of all, IT HAS MICRO USB after over 8 years since the port has been deprecated and replaced with USB C. They're literally asking 5000 dollars for a toy camera and don't have the decency to spend 50 cents on a modern usb port. NO ONE buying such a camera uses micro usb for anything. They have usb c laptops and phones and everything else.
💀 It's like this company hates its own customers, I'm surprised they've found a market for this shit.
nice contrast ratio in todays talking head.
Having on-board memory only is the biggest downside for me, and personally I'd buy a Leica for the cost of the Pixii ... It isn't being a brand snob.
Internal memory only.
I don’t think it doesn’t have a removable battery.
No rear screen.
It’s just to much of an odd ball. Might as well get a leica film camera.
Maybe people using it can go back to the old film camera way of taking pictures without a rear screen? There is a smartphone app to view photos but granted it isn't quite as convenient as a rear screen.
The battery is removable and is a very common Sony type (NP-FW50; easy to find.) Internal memory means no worrying about corrupted SD cards. And yes, it DOES appeal to people who like using a film camera... with the advantage that if you need to peek at your last shot, you can just pull out your phone, and instead of heading into the darkroom when you get home, you just pull down your files. (Linux nerds will get a kick out of hopping on their home WiFi network and using the CURL command to download their take...)
@@jlwilliamsActually, internal memory means worries about corrupted internal memory requiring a camera repair. That’s unacceptable to say the least.
Matt's a nice enough guy that the click-bait of "new competition" can be excused. 😂
It is truly absurd for a random, unknown company to charge $4300 USD for this.
If you compare prices for top models from Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc., you'll find it's priced right in the middle of the range for specialized high-end cameras. Yes, all those models have more AF and video features... but if you don't WANT those features, you may prefer to have them left off so they don't distract you from the kind of observation-intensive, walking-around documentary photography that the Pixii is made for. A coupled range/viewfinder module that works with interchangeable lenses will always be a high-precision, high-cost component, so you can't expect to have this feature in a camera that's priced like a Fujifilm X100...
@@jlwilliams This does not qualify as a "top model" from a company that is respected enough to have a top model.
wow, all that money for an electronic shutter only camera that won't ever let you use flash. Must be a joke.
They should sell at at Fuji X price. It will gain traction for sure. If it is 4k usd. Nah. Going for a 2nd hand Leica instead.
Yeah, competition is a good thing, agree. However... for that kind of money, I'll rather buy a used 100 MP Fuji 100s, but that's just me...
They really beat leica in price. All they had to do was remove the shutter and screen. Really impressive.
Also I think they are internal storage only which is so dope.
@@oetproductions8101 how is that dope? They charge 200€ extra if you want more than 32gb. It’s a ripoff
That price doesn't seem appealing, unless the point was to have a Leica price as well 🙂
I just want to remind everyone that the Fuji Xpro3 is a super affordable alternative to both these cameras. Dont want the LCD screen? The fuji screen stays hidden unless you pop it down. Want a rangefinder system? The fuji has a toggle so the EVF displays in rangefinder mode, live view, or rangefinder with a teeeeny pop up focus screen. Obsessed with your manual focus lenses? Adapters let you put your leica lens onto their Xmount, and its very unobtrusive. Does is sing with the style and flavor of a leica? No, but damnit if it isn't pretty dang close for around $1800. Look for an xpro3 in Dura/Titanium if you are still looking for an alternative to both these cameras.
amen
No sure why anyone would buy that instead of a used m10 for just a little more.
@@TheNanofiber exactly. Personally I think it should compete pricewise with an M8 or M9. But for 4g you can easily get an M10 or an M240 with a lens
@@TheChosenOne_ What if you are looking for 2024 specs and an upgradeable digital rangefinder camera ? Sounds to me like many photographers might want that. So here it is. That's PIXII's mission and no other camera brand has ever done it.
@@f_vale are 24MP and 32GB storage really 2024 specs? I’m looking forward to sensor comparisons with the M10 and I hope the Pixii will be noticeable better but still, I think it will be a hard sell at that price point. Hasn’t Pixii sold less than 1000 cameras so far? I might misremember an interview but they don’t have a lot of customers so far.
Yep, the upgradability is what sets it apart, no need to buy a whole new camera to get the latest hardware
@@f_vale hm seems that my comment was eaten… the upgradability is cool but I’m not sure if I would call 24MP and 32Gb storage „2024 specs“ but lets wait for the reviews. Also so far the customer base for the Pixii is tiny (less than 1000 IIRC) and I doubt a camera at that price point will help with that
Both suck. Leicas always break and pixii doesn't have a mechanical shutter. They're all hype and lame
doesn't make sense
4k is too expensive. who is going to buy this? you can get Leica for that price
Might look like that at first but...Just wait and see how fast it sells out ;) Upgrades for previous Pixii owners are already sold out.
The pixii is pointless
Both useless 😂😂😂😂😂
It is just insane to me to see people trying to make a price argument in favor of Leica here. This camera does not compete with the M10, it competes with the M11. The tech in this is nearly a decade newer. The M11 is over twice as much as a Pixii Max and will lose half that value or more in the next decade before settling around $4000 used just like the M10/M262/M240. In the M10's case, why would I spend the same amount as a brand new Pixii Max just to get a similar camera which has been used by half a dozen other people, has less features, and is running decade old tech? Buying a new tool just for the resale value has never made sense to me.
Do you buy your camera to take pictures with, or to show off at the monthly Cameras and Coffee meetup?
Yawn. Not the video. It was great. The camera. Why?
I’m good with my M11 but really really really want to check this out.
I look forward to the review. I love my M11, but I agree with Matt; competition is good.