Certified Vs Experimental Aircraft, Watch This Before You Buy
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มิ.ย. 2024
- 👉 If you're in the market for a personal flying machine, you may want to consider your options between Certified and Experimental aircraft. What the heck are Experimentals anyway? Will they give you the best bang for your buck?
Join me as we discuss all of that and more over these points:
1. 00:48 Define terms, Certified and Experimental.
2. 02:05 Define our mission.
3. 03:43 Pricing
4. 04:06 Maintenance, Inspections and Parts
5. 06:19 Model Variety
6. 07:09 Insurance
👍👍👍 Thanks for watching! 👍👍👍
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As per usual, another fantastic video Matt. Some other things to consider when weighing experimental vs. certified is the potential for return on investment. You can lease your certified aircraft back to a school, or use it along with commercial pilot privileges to make yourself money. Generally, that isn't the case with experimental aircraft.
Very true Derek, the commercial aspect is something I considered when I was looking. At the end of the day I knew I just needed to fly more regularly and work out other ideas later. All that being said, there's definitely a need for a Sonex CFI who has their own to instruct in. Not thinking that's the correct path for me yet...
@@LeftSeatAdventures Agreed. They are pretty squirrely planes in tailwheel form so a place to get trained would be great. But, I'm like you in that I bought mine because I wanted to fly a lot and I wanted to fly cheap
@@dereklacy Preach! I feel like a B model with at least 100hp would be the ticket for someone wanting to do it. They could easily charge a premium for instruction too. We'll see.
Yes, you certainly can lease a certified aircraft to a club or school……..but your insurance costs go thru the roof ! And don’t even get me started on the maintenance costs when you do that. Renters and especially instructors like perfect airplanes and will squawk the most mundane things - all at your expense !
Quick background on me - airline pilot 20k plus accident free hours. I have owned several aircraft throughout the years. Going forward it will ONLY be experimental ! I don’t want someone or some regulation FORCING me to pay out a huge chunk of money for something that might or might not be an issue. I’ll decide for myself thank you very much.
That's how it should be! In my recent interview with Sonex Aircraft, Mark said that mandates will never reach everyone and it's true.
th-cam.com/video/1uHnEEYEQdg/w-d-xo.html
I sold my Arrow at a loss last year when the engine blew, and I just had it with certified rules when I went looking for options for repair. The engine cracking was honestly a blessing, it finally pushed me to get rid of it. Experimental only from now on. The rules, the labor capture, the lack of cheaper options because of stupid type certificate potato, no thanks.
Experimental for me, I love the whole build process. Looking forward to the first flight with every part I complete. Maintenance cost over time and operating costs will be lower for my Sonex B once completed and flying. Proven design by a trusted kit manufacturer is a must. Do your research, live in reality when deciding how much to spend. Figure out what you want to do with it, adjust your budget. Then do it. Its not the money, its the commitment that kills the dream.
Expertly said Patrick, thanks! 👍👍👍
Certified vs Experimental: Twice the price, but half the worries.
Hahaha. It really all depends on the individual aircraft and how well it's maintained. I've seen some nasty certified aircraft on the day job I'd never fly. Make sure you get a GOOD pre buy inspection as well. Some of the worst airplanes I've seen were bought sight unseen or had a half @$$ed one done.
more like 10 times the price 25% less worries
It's cheaper to just buy an experimental than build one now. Many people think they want to build, then buy all the stuff and realize they bit off more than they can chew, especially if they are still working full time, have kids, etc. Sure the Velocity is cool, but it's going to take you a hell of a long time to get it done. Some people take literally decades. Many just give up on it and sell it. Or they lose their medical along the way. As a new pilot in a newly built airplane, you shouldn't even be considering taking any passengers for at least a year or more depending on how much flight time you get.
Not everyone is going to be thrilled with your "new" airplane. People still have jobs and kids and other stuff going on. It's not like they're dropping everything because you decided to fly into town one weekend. It's your hobby, not theirs. So yea, visions of flying all over with one or more passengers, is a fantasy. Most of the time the right seat will be empty. Oh sure, you will give some "first flights" that last maybe 20 minutes. But for the most part it will be you and your flight bag on the seat. All the more reason to buy a single place, folding wing Sonex. Save paying those hangar fees. And no, it's not designed to be hauled at 55+ mph on a trailer to the airport. Think more like 40mph max.
You want to explore new places. Great. But you're a tightwad with barely an extra $5 for a burger. Well $12 now, depending on where you go. So you land at some airport in Colorado. Ok, now what? You have to get a ride to do anything, but you're too damn cheap, or broke to spend the money to rent a car, or Uber, or pay for gas to have a friend pick you up. It's a long damn walk from the airport to town or other sites. Doing other stuff besides just landing requires planning and decision making. Starting to sound more like work.
If you're still working, your weekend trip may make you late getting back because of weather issues. But you're a real pilot with a real mustache and you popped some rivets. Your da man. You will dodge or fly through it all to get back to work Monday at 7am, no problem right? Your boss will totally understand if you're late a day or two right?
That inexpensive kit suddenly got a whole heap more expensive when it was all said and done. Maybe the wife is none too happy about that and the amount of time you spend on it. Maybe you're too broke now to afford a hangar. So now you're going to park it outside and rubber band a bunch of 1 inch thick foam all over the top of it because, well, hail happens. And winter. Ahh yes, the joy of parking in the cheap tie down areas. Better add a few extra hours for shoveling snow, de-icing, pre-heating, sitting in your truck with the heater on high, cursing high hanger fees and the guy who has every vehicle known to man other than an airplane, stored in his hanger. Remember aviation is fun. When you land, all your relatives will gather at the airport when it is 20 degrees out and windy, so they can take a ride in your cramped tin can death trap with crappy heat. No worries, you made at least 1 takeoff and landing in the last 90 days. Got to keep those skills sharp.
Hangers are much cheaper 2.5 hours from your home. Are you really going to drive that distance regularly to just go fly for an hour? Oh you own an old dually pickup truck too as your only vehicle? That fuel bill will be fun.
You bought a finished experimental and then had a minor wing dinger that needs fixing. Who is going to do it for you? Having some engine trouble on that Rotax or perhaps a Mazda rotary that the last owner said was smooth as butter? Going to roll the plane down to the local Mazda dealer and have them work on it? Lycoming, Rotax, Mazda, it's all the same right? You just need a wrench and a pair of pliers.
How often are you REALLY going to fly that thing? Average yearly hours for private pilots is roughly 65 hours. That ain't much. How much of that is just flying locally versus going across the country and seeing all the great geologic formations known to man and touring the dining spots of the local towns? You're on that frequent car rental discount program right?
Oh, it's four hours before sunset and you just landed. No time for that car rental and town tour. You don't like to fly at night and need to head back in about 30 minutes. You can take some cool photos of the fuel pump at the airport. Who doesn't love a vast collection of fuel pump photos on their walls to remind them of all the great airports they landed at.
And always remember, any moment, disaster may strike and have you plummeting to the ground. So every spare minute of your day should be spent on additional training, reading, and practicing emergency procedures. Every conversation you have should revolve around your airplane, and cool gas pumps that were out of service when you landed. But you should have known that ahead of time so you could have used an alternate airport. You need more training.
Reality bites sometimes. Trying to justify an airplane purchase is fruitless. Just understand, you are taking dollars and throwing lots of them out the window. With some airplanes, it will be a large shop vac just outside the window running non-stop sucking every dollar you have and then some. If you skip the hull insurance to save some bucks, you better be willing to toss
$45k+ out the window because you screwed up a landing. No worries, you have a spare
$45k cash on hand to sort things out, right?
Get those lotto tickets. A billion will go a long way in helping your aviation hobby. You might even attract some large chested women to do the bouncy co-pilot thing for BoobTube videos. Don't forget the misleading thumbnails. It's all about the bait and switch. Get those clicks.
Whole lot of real world truth right there! 👍👍👍
When people argue about Bernoulli or whatever regarding what makes lift, it really is money! That can get you some lift! I bought a Europa Monowheel some years ago and it's a great aircraft design but I have some hours into fixing deficiencies and omissions from the original builder, but as one Europa owner said when he compared it to his previous plane..a 210 hp Globe Swift, it is faster on two thirds less fuel burn and out performs it in climb and take-off and landing distance too. I love the plane though, holds two people, lots of baggage, it just feel so good to fly it @@LeftSeatAdventures
@@dwaynemcallister7231 hahaha, it's true! Cool, sounds like a sweet ride.
Part 103 sounds good to me! 😎
Dang! Lots of things to think about. Never thought there would be such a large difference with regards to the insurance coverage costs
Yup, that was a surprise to me too. Figured I wouldn't be the only one. Parts costs on everything have gone up like crazy since making that video...
@@LeftSeatAdventures yeah, I’ve been LSA for some time now, but it’s pushing me to go ultralight, for my own plane ownership, it’s just not cost-effective anymore, especially with the limited amount of time that you actually get to fly. Time will tell, but it’s either gonna be a shared plane ownership or ultralight for me down the road I can see.
I just bought into a equity share based flying club myself. The costs are split across the members and the hourly rate is a steal for around here. Not every club is created equal so definitely do your research beforehand. I also considered going ultralight too before this opportunity fell in my lap.
Went through these pros/cons myself about 7 years ago and decided on experimental. I built and now fly a Sling 4. Love it! But, yeah, the insurance is super painful...
I look at it this way. When a kit builder sells his/her pride and joy, most don't figure in the 2000 hours pains taking labor into the sale price. A company like Cessna will roll into the price every manhour used to build it to include all of the overhead. That is why you get way, way, way more bang for your buck buying a used kitplane. Most kitplanes are much more efficient than production. Many burn mogas making it way more economical. Fling a C-150 is like flying a tuna boat. The same sized and powered experimental will be a hotrod in comparison. If you want to fly an uneconomical tunaboat, more power to yuh. It doesn't make any sense. Production planes cost way, way more and have much less performance than experimentals. The choice is obvious.
All true! 👍👍👍
I am on my 2nd Mooney in my 20 years of flying but now I am making the switch to an experimental, a Velocity XL-RG. I wanted something that gave me similar performance to my Mooney but was going to be less expensive to operate and maintain as I get closer to my retirement years. Yes, the insurance is more expensive but the operational and maintenance costs should more than make up for that.
Awesome! As much as I love Mooney's the Velocity is quite an airplane. Great ramp presence too. The insurance cost should go down over the years as you're time in type builds. Enjoy!
Building experimental is like building 80% lowers. Best method.
Well said. 👍
Great video Matt. All great points.
Cool video. So many people will love following this trip. Great b-roll... Very Polished.... Love it.
Thanks Bill! Just got to keep at it and make each video 1% better than the last one.
All great points my friend👍
I think experimental is the way to go for me. And you really got me thinking when you said most people are flying alone for the most part which brings to mind the merlin psa.
Yup, that's a good all metal single seat option. Same with the Onex and Thatcher CX-4. I haven't done much research on them, but I do see RV-3s come up for sale from time to time at a good price point. Then again, I sit in the middle of my Sonex so it's like having a more luxurious Onex.
That was hands down one of the best videos on the topic, I’m trying to eventually get my own aircraft and this put experimental into perspective and I’m still drawn to it because I enjoy building things thank you
Awesome, thanks Patrick! 👍👍👍 Experimental certainly opened up the door to sole ownership for me. I've come to think of owning a Certified is better for a business, partnership or club.
@@LeftSeatAdventures You are absolutely right about the club and partnership, and business. It seems to make it easier. And personally I’d like to start experimental and work up to certified one of these days. One step at a time
Really nice job. Great content. Well presented and well produced. I’ve had my heart set on a Sonex for a long time. Did the factory tour and lots of research. But as I focused on my mission(s), I ll probably end up with a certified. Appreciate you putting this out there.
Thanks Adrian! Defining your mission(s) is everything, kudos to you for putting the work in. 👍 👍 👍
If you're comfortable with it, it's hard not to look at the value proposition of building an experimental. If you can maintain a Sonex that you built, the cost are very low. The insurance cost difference becomes negligible. If you didn't build the airplane or you don't want to do the maintenance, experimental definitely loses it's edge. It's difficult to recommend buying a completed or partial experimental unless you have really good reasons to believe it was built correctly and maintained properly. An airworthiness certificate does not guarantee the safety of the airplane. Failures being due to incorrectly assembled experimental airplanes are not uncommon. Be prepared to go through the entire build manual and look over the airplane.
Absolutely, we have to do our due diligence before getting into any aircraft. When I got my project Sonex, I went through every nut bolt and rivet and had a well built aircraft. But I've heard plenty of horror stories from other second hand builders/owners.
Great video Matt. Though I have ordered an experimental kit, will build it over next few years, I will buy a simple certified plane to build time and stay current.
Maybe you could create a new video on this topic- what to do while building an experimental.
Thanks Amit! What kit are you building?
That's a great video idea! 👍👍👍 It's absolutely essential to keep your flying skills up while building, and there's definitely options to do so. Thanks!
Great video, thanks
No problem 👍Thanks for watching!
Great video. Thanks for sharing. I am currently building a Zenith Cruzer on my channel. So you can guess what direction I went.
Thanks, and your Cruzer is looking awesome! The 750 was on my short list to build, then Sonex had to go and announce their High Wing...
One thing most people dont think about that im personally dealing with right now is lead times. The lead time on a used certified is 0. The lead time on a kit plane can be YEARS depending on how you do it. If you do the whole kit at once it may be a year, but if you go component kits, bit by bit, you are talking about years of twiddling your thumbs due to the next section of parts having another 18+ month lead time.
That is a very good point. 👍 A chapter member just ordered a Van's RV-12 kit and was given a 12 month lead time for the individual sections. But we'll see if that holds up. I have seen people selling their kit deposits/ spot in line on barnstormers. What will you be building?
@@LeftSeatAdventures zenith ch650, rudder section will be here on the 2nd. But the rest of the tail and wings/flaps wont be here until december apparently. Thats all ive ordered for now though.
Cool, I was very close to buying a 601 when I was still in the market. Hang in there, it'll be worth the wait to have an airplane YOU built.
@@LeftSeatAdventures half way through the rudder now. I take my old comment back because this construction process is like drugs 😂 well worth the wait.
Me, a person with 3 hours of flight time, and zero thought of actually buying a plane or completing my personal pilots license.
If I get to that point, experimental is the way to go; they look good. Certified crafts look ugly.
I owned a Cherokee 180 and I loved that airplane. It was easy to fly and dependable. That being said it got more and more expensive to maintain as things needed replaced. My last annual before I sold it in 1996 cost me $3k and I did all the grunt work. My next plane will be an experimental. Better performance and cheaper to operate.
I hear ya! I used to be part of a flying club with two 172Ns. We were featured by the AOPA for how affordable we were. We bought one in 2014 advertised at $35k. The same plane now is over $100k! 😳 I work at a repair station now, and parts prices are absolutely insane now. Luckily there's still some cost effective Experimentals out there. What are you looking at?
@@LeftSeatAdventures There are so many choices out there. I am planning on going to Oshkosh next year and visit with all the kit makers. I would love to have an RV 8 but the expense concerns me. On the cheaper end the Sonerai II interests me. Another question for me is build vs buy as I’m not a Spring chicken any more.
That's a good plan, multiple builders I've talked to did just that. See and sit in all the options available. The Sonex booth should have the Sonerai as well as they support them again. Be aware, I know multiple people who left Oshkosh with a Rans kit deposit. 😆 Apparently Randy's a great salesman! (Great airplanes too.)
Thanks that's a good idea
No problem! I bought my Sonex project that was already built , but sat for a few years and had to be gone through before flying again. In the future, I'd be looking for something I can do at least 51% and do my own condition inspections as well. Finding an A&P to do mine was challenging.
I own an experimental aircraft. Despite all you saying being generally correct there are also arguments which lead for me to chose a certified airplane:
1. In my home country (Germany) Experimentals can't be registered for IFR. If you want to fly IFR, you have to go certified.
2. The advantage of saving money with maintenance is also the downside. Shops will barely do any maintenance since they don't know the aircraft. If you are (like most people) short on time, you will spend significant parts of the year screwing around on your aircraft instead of flying it.
3. If you don't find the time building an aircraft, buying na experimental is generally at least as expensive as a certified aircraft. Four seaters are almost always crazy expensive
Thanks for sharing your unique perspective, unfortunately I'm only familiar with US regulations. Nice RV-12 by the way. 👍 It is a problem here as well with shops refusing to touch Experimentals, but I'm trying to change that. The repair shop I now work for doesn't work on them either. The whole aircraft market has gone insane in this country but I'm expecting a correction in the coming months. But yes, if my mission requires a 4-6 seater for family hauling or business use, then I would probably go Certified. I'm not aware of a true ECONOMICAL Experimental 4 seater at the moment. (Sonex hinted at new developments in the future, but no specifics. If anyone could do it I believe it would be them.)
@@LeftSeatAdventures The Sling TSI would be a great choice if you could get your hands on one. However, there are none being sold in Europe.
Good post. However there is another aspect that should be discussed. Without spending a lot of money it’s hard to beat the fun factor of having an aerobatic homebuilt aircraft. I built a Sonex and flew it and other Sonex aircraft for 19 years and although I didn’t do much serious aerobatics, I liked to throw my plane around a lot. To purchase and maintain a used certified airplane to do the same things would have cost me MUCH more money than a certified plane. All the planes I’ve flown were generally fun to fly but even the tamer experimental ones were more fun than just about all of the certified ones.
Very true Mike! 👍 Have you seen the prices on Cessna 150 Aerobats lately? Yikes! 😲It seems the Sonex is still the best all around bang for your buck option even after much of the used aircraft market has lost it's mind. The aerobatic capability was a factor when I was looking too, some sort of "X factor."
One specific capability that might be important to you is aerobatics- an acro rating is fairly rare with certified aircraft, but there is a much wider variety of acro-capable experimental planes.
Absolutely! 👍 When I was looking, I wanted anything I ended up with to have some kind of X-factor. Something that set it apart from the "normal" GA fleet. Being able to do "gentleman" aerobatics in my Sonex fits the bill. My aerobatic training was in a Citabria, but like you said, there's A LOT more options in the Experimental world.
Would love to hear where you all see SLSA in this discussion. They are factory built to ATSM standards but I don’t think they are considered “Certified”. But you can do flight training or lease back. Thoughts?
I was hoping someone with more direct S-LSA experience would chime in, but for the right aircraft and budget, I think they can be a solid option. Typically equipped with a Rotax 912, efficient and reliable, with tons of fleet hours vs some Experimental engine options. Taking the light sport repair course for your particular aircraft allows you to do your own maintenance. But I would make sure the company that built is still in business or at least there is still good parts support. I've seen several "good deals" listed for aircraft that are no longer supported.
One more thing that is almost never brought up is Life Insurance. I don't know of a life insurance company that covers death in an experimental aircraft.
That's true, and honestly something I haven't thought enough about. In the US, the EAA does offer an AD&D plan that claims it covers incidents in Experimental and Light Sport aircraft. No idea about the rest of the world though.
www.eaa.org/eaa/eaa-membership/eaa-member-benefits/insurance/eaa-personal-insurance-plan
My life Insurance doesn't care what I fly.
@@robertthomas2942 is that because you don't have life insurance? If you do, which one because I would be interested in a new policy
Don’t be killing yourself, no problem! 😉
Experimentals!!! Look for a bushby mustang. One of the best strongest fastest kit built out there.
Yup, sweet airplanes. So many options in the Experimental world.
Thinking of building a dual engine contra rotating propeller system for my airplane to prevent any significant threat due to single engine cutouts / failures
Cool, that'd be awesome! I don't know much about the actual design and engineering of them, but I'd love to see you do it. 👍 Film it!
@@LeftSeatAdventures sure will once I have a piece of land and a house in Canada!
Hey, would you mind sharing what has been the avg hourly operating cost?
Hi Adriano, unfortunately I don't have enough flight time in it yet to have accurate figures. Rest assured, I will be making a video about that when I do have it. Naturally the more flight time the better as that helps absorb some of the fixed monthly costs like insurance and hangar rental. Plan on 4-5 gal/hr fuel burn with a VW engine. I'm also not working in an engine reserve at the moment as the VW engines are super cheap to rebuild compared to a certified Lycoming engine. Thanks for watching!
Do experimental aircraft have any limitations on where they can fly? Do they have to avoid certain airspaces that certified dont? Do they have certain restrictions on how they can fly? Like altitute.
Good questions. Short answer, no. As long as the aircraft is legal, airworthy, and appropriately equipped it can use the same airspace as certified aircraft. Lancairs and others like it are happy in the flight levels. I've seen experimentals in special areas like the Hudson Corridor and Niagra as well. If an airspace requires ads-b out, then make sure it's equipped. Be sure to check the operating limitations both for the aircraft's limits and what the phase 1 was signed off for. Above all, if you're not sure, consult your local FSDO.
experimental all the way, because i build it my self, maintain it myself, it a child for me
ps : use engines that can support mogas, its gonna help you a lot XD
Have you ever priced insurance with liability only? Curious of the difference with experimental. I don’t currently have liability but I have before certified.
So I was just going over the quotes, and the range was $619 to $1200 for liability only. Avemco being the lowest at the time, but they had the highest premium for adding hull coverage.
I go for experimental
Would you know if you can fabricate your own fuselage in an experimental plane? the lead-time is about a year now. and still, meat the home %51 home built requirement
Absolutely. Many Experimental aircraft are scratch built from plans while others are complete one off customs. Although, if you're scratch building and depending on your free time, the extra work might well be longer than the production lead time. The FAA has transitioned away from build hours to # of tasks completed for the 51% rule. Either way, scratch building is a good bit more work than a kit, so worries meeting the 51% rule at all. Even quick build kits are typically done only up to a 49% completion based on tasks that are left.
Funny things is, I was just looking at a set of 750 Cruzer plans yesterday... Another angle is to keep an eye on Barnstormers for partially completed projects, there's new options every week. Projects can be a GREAT way to save time and money on building. What are you looking to get into?
I am new to this, but from a builders perspective, and experimental seems to give you so much more control over finding parts, better pricing, more options to replace and install parts, and a wider range of parts (say an ipad rather than a Garmin GPS). How about self insure the aircraft? Is that legal?
Hi T, whatcha building? Absolutely correct on all points concerning experimental. I was just talking with a Cessna 206 owner concerning new engine baffling that was $3500. I joked that with Experimental, I could do the whole thing for ~$200. 🤣🤣🤣
And on self-insuring, you absolutely could. I'm not aware of any states that require aircraft insurance, please check your local laws. But that is essentially what we're doing if we don't purchase a plan from an insurance company. Self insuring the hull, engine and so on isn't a big deal. Even a total loss of my Sonex isn't a huge amount of money. But the tricky part comes in with liability for damage to other persons or property. These claims could easily get into the six figure range or more. I knew a Bonanza pilot who crashed without insurance and just about lost everything because of this, 10+ years later and things still weren't sorted. For this reason, I want "at least" liability insurance on any aircraft I have any dealings with.
@@LeftSeatAdventures 11 states require some form of aircraft insurance or proof of financial liability. Aircraft owners in Minnesota, Hawaii, Maryland, Oregon, Rhode Island, California, Connecticut, Indiana, Massachusetts, Virginia, and North Dakota should check their local laws. Several web sites cover the specifics for each state. A web search using the keywords 'states requiring aircraft insurance' should yield more info.
@@jimml1938 Thanks for sharing that! 👍 I know some states like MA and VA also have their own separate state registration. But definitely people need to check their own state's laws and requirements before purchasing any aircraft.
What about restriction of types of flights you can do and where you can fly?
Yea, there has been some back and forth with the FAA and insurance companies since this video was made. Some instructors and DPEs won't fly in Experimentals. Some insurance companies have ULTRA high time in type requirements and premiums now. Some won't insure at all. Then there was the brief stint where the FAA was requiring special permits to do any instruction in Experimentals, but that has since passed.
What am I missing? Perhaps I need to make an updated version...
What is the difference between an Experimental Exhibition and an Experimental Amateur build? What are the differences in restrictions and reporting requirements?
It comes down to what you plan on doing with the aircraft. Experimental exhibition is only for a specific purpose like air shows, flight testing something new and different, camera ships. If you want to build your own airplane to enjoy and share flying it, you're registering it as an E-AB.
Start here:
www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/airworthiness_certification/sp_awcert/experiment
And then concerning registering your E-AB, start here:
www.eaa.org/eaa/about-eaa/eaa-media-room/experimental-aircraft-information
@@LeftSeatAdventuresThank you. I own an Experimental Exhibition aircraft and am trying to sell it. someone was interested in buying it, but then, when he realized it was an exhibition, he pulled back and mentioned that he wanted amateur built because of the restrictions and reporting requirements. I am trying to find what restrictions are there that make my airplane less attractive to buyers.
Uh oh. Sorry to hear that, I honestly don't know all the ins and outs of the exhibition category. What aircraft is it? I'd say you could talk to your local FSDO and the Aircraft manufacturer about it.
@@LeftSeatAdventuresIt's a Pipistrel Panthera.
I’m both 👍
Nice! 👍
Great overview. Thank you. That flag though...
Absolutely, glad it helped. 👍 Unfortunately prices have gone up a good bit since I made it. What about the flag? 🙂 It's covering a closet door 😆.
@@LeftSeatAdventures great video - and -> I'd like to see the rest of the Flag ! who made it ?
@@mobile-to6rz Thanks. I got it off of Amazon, tough to find more than just the usual 3. amzn.to/3u1sJfQ
This numbers of insurance cost is about of the all coverage airplane or for 3rd party only?
The $2-3k+ quotes I got were for full coverage, hull and liability. Liability only was in the $600-1k range. This was also with only an hour time in type. I need to revisit this now that I have more. A buddy of mine has a lot of time in his tailwheel Experimental and is paying around $1200 a year for full coverage. So, it should come down with time. Cheers!
@@LeftSeatAdventures I'm more relieved now, 1200 is a fair price per year, but for 2k or 3k I prefer to fly liability only for the first 50 hours.
@@alessdre I agree 110%!
@@LeftSeatAdventures Who is your current insurance company? I am looking at possibly purchasing a single seat high performance experimental. I am an Air Force Pilot and I have read horror stories on price of insurance.
@@johnmosley5402 When it comes to insurance, it really all depends. Each company seems to have their own criteria and vary on rates. A low price for me with one company won't necessarily mean that for you or anyone else, regardless of experience even. As far as Experimentals go, time in type seems to be the big one they go off of. If you don't already, try to get 5-10 hours in what you're looking at before buying. Use an insurance broker like Victoria Neuville to shop around and get individual quotes from insurers they don't use. Pick that one that suits your needs best.
I mean its really hard to total an experimental and survive so...
Yea, there's some models out there I'd say you're right about. Others are just as robust. Manufactures perform crash testing of airframes for Part 23 certification, but none of that is required to offer a kit. But it really all depends. No matter what you're flying, as Bob Hoover said, you have to fly it into the smoking hole.
The faster the aircraft the worse odds of survival in a crash, so maybe that should be a consideration in what to buy? Also look up the crash history of the type it will tell you something.
I have a 172 .....selling it ..the cost to do anything on certified is stupid ......want a avionics package 10k certified ....experimental minus 50%
I hear ya Daniel, 172s used to be very cost effective. Plus side is they're selling for a premium right now. What are you thinking about getting into next?
@@LeftSeatAdventures zenith 750 or something I can take off in 200 feet ...
$10k?...You got off lucky with that quote. I'm $37k in the hole after replacing a dead legacy panel in my 172.
I'm stock piling tools to build an RV-8 to free myself of the nightmare.
@@muhammadsteinberg Yikes! An RV-8 is quite a machine too, welcome to the Experimental side.
I don't have time or space or desire to build my own plane. I also need 1500lb useful load, which only exists in twins
Nice! 👍 The most important thing before buying any airplane is to know your mission and I'm glad to hear you do. What kind of twin are you looking at?
@@LeftSeatAdventures I'd love a DA 62, but I really need a bit more lifting capability. I'll probably end up with one of the twin cessnas or a Navajo
Nice, one of the local flight schools had a diamond twin but it was down for maintenance a lot. The singles fly great. I work on Navajos regularly, they're solid workhorse airplanes. (Actually wrapping up an engine change on a Chieftain right now...)
@@LeftSeatAdventures pretty much has to be a twin or move up to the turboprops. Turboprops sound great and are super reliable, they just cost so much to operate
Experimental planes for self transit is cheaper, kits, vs mass reproduction. Experimental more custom to your likes, needs, wants, and experimental. Like buying a bag of socks at at made in China Walmart. Size six won’t fit a size 12 foot. ( I don’t shop eat Walmart my socks fits but cost $26 a pair not $26 for family size bag of socks. Lol.) and my socks have lasted about four years now. #smartwool
experimental
simply get a plane that climbs quicker than ya insurance.
Hahaha, how about it?! Crazy how much everything has gone up since I made this video.
go ukrralighta nd build in wood and epoxie laminates...then fatigue is not an issue and insurance either...🤷♀️smaller folded up in your garage and no airport cists..so bith of your options are not an option...
😆 hey, I love the idea of ultralights and have been keeping an eye out for a decent one. Unfortunately, many people nowadays are completely unaware of the segment while others are honestly afraid of them. Many people looking to buy an aircraft are also looking to build legal flight time, something you can't do in a part 103 ultralight. You have to fly one for the love of it. Sounds like you need to make some videos promoting ultralights over other aircraft. (If you haven't already.) I'd love to see it!
Experimental
Where do you live? No insurance needed?
Hey Tim, I'm in Eastern PA. What I mean by that is it's not required by my state like auto insurance. I don't know if other states do. Now, is "flying naked" a good idea? Each owner needs to weigh the pros and cons.
In case you missed it, 3:19 into this interview:
th-cam.com/video/ue4YQ0Mu1x4/w-d-xo.html
Too many in Aviation Both Building and/or just Flying think they are much more SKI:LLED than they actually. Really many are by the Grace of God Still Alive ant not a Static on Probable Cause/Balancario.
If you want to be honest and put all the cards on the table, are you as a pilot missing the point?
Flying with family or going up with a friend is a risk. The risk being responsible for killing a family member or dying catching a ride with a friend. Reality sucks, by not admitting the risks of flying and taking your family up is tantamount to criminal negligence.
Some truth there, but not really the point of the video. For more info on the risks of buying a used airplane, Certified or Experimental, check out:
th-cam.com/video/ue4YQ0Mu1x4/w-d-xo.html
You are correct there are risks and I think if I only had TH-cam to go on I would be too scared to fly, but my Dad flew as a charter pilot his 40 plus year career and although he had many engine failures he only slightly bent a plane once, he proved to me flying can be safe if you understand your limitations and don't exceed them.
Wow 20k hours in a certified plane with all AD’s complied with and all Service Bulletins complied with, go fly a Minicoupe kit plane knock off watch the stall on it , killed the second owner. Baby Great Lakes crashed several from LPR. Be careful what you wish for. Most of the homebuilts over 22 years being based at LPR crashed except ones very meticulous maintained and built. The Routan planes almost all did not crash but two from LPR. You don’t know squat about homebuilts or aviation sorry have you survived flutter on the elevator system , I have . One wrong maintenance move or design flaw will get you that’s why the AD’s are there . Many are from after death = AD’s . The FAA makes folks comply with something very dangerous on your productions planes , homebuilts your the test pilot and your odds are not good if you are not super meticulous on every step of the home built process or there is a design flaw. Good luck you”ll need it 20k. 42 years , flying give me a production plane all AD’s complied with engine within TBO and no magnesium tail feathers. Wake up FAA magnesium tail feathers 50 years old not good.
20k mostly safe hours, congrats! Absolutely, certified aircraft have a team of engineers designing and testing while most kit manufacturers have .... One. The certified manufacturers also take on all the liability of an incident where kit manufacturers typically don't. (Nevermind the control flutter issues with the Piper Comanche...) However, the majority of certified GA aircraft were built prior to the 1980s and let's face it are starting to show their age. It's unfortunate, but I see this daily working on certified aircraft under an IA with 35 years experience. I'm sorry you've had such an abismal experience with home builts and it sounds like you've lost some friends. At the end of the day, no pilot should fly ANY aircraft unless their trained current and capable to do so. In a homebuilt, the liability is on you and you better make sure it's right. Take care!
Ha, the flag , whatever 🙄
It did a great job of covering a closet door. 😜
Why are you Considered More STUPID when killing ones slf in anairplane than say an Automobile/motor cycle/Boat/Rec Vehicle?