This happened during a severe storm in London about 5 years back, I think it was storm “Doris”. The Boeing 737 have, like Kelsey pointed out, a system logic that allows thrust-reverser deployment below 10 feet Radio-altitude. These pilots were fighting extreme weather during this landing with gusts way over 30kt. The pilot flying was likely super focused on getting the aircraft down and start to brake as soon as possible, hence the slightly premature thrust reverser deployment.
Last week, i experienced a go-around on an A320. Everyone on the plane was screaming but I found it really fun because I actually knew what was happening, thanks to your channel!
I experienced my first go around on a CRJ900 earlier this year. I was like oh ok, there goes the airport LOL. We ended up coming around and landing in the opposite direction due to funky winds. I Everyone was freaking out for no reason.
The relief in his voice when he answered ATC "yes I can hear you" almost made me tear up. Great video! Good job, unknown pilot. I'd fly with you at the controls any day.
I can't believe what happened to myself when I heard that stall buzzer go off just sitting here in my chair watching this video, my hands instinctively moved forward listening to it. Now I understand why my instructor taught me the way he did (an ex Lancaster pilot). Great video Kelsey, he was certainly on that ragged-edge, thanks. :)
I used to fly the 737. Seem to remember you could select reverse at 10 feet on the radio altimeter. I have done exactly what the Ryanair, pilot did. It was on a 6500ft snow covered runway, in slightly windy conditions, so max thrust needed. Like the guy in the video, I thought the wheels had touched (they had not) and opened the reversers too early. The plane landed smoothly, stopped great, so this is not a big deal. On the video, the translating sleeves open on the engine, but it takes a little longer for the engine to reverse flow, so the landing is fine. On the 72 seat turboprop, I used to fly, selecting reverse before the nose wheel hit the deck, it would smash the nose down hard. On that aircraft, interlocks were supposed to prevent it reversing in flight. Well, they got worn out and somebody managed to reverse an engine in flight. About twenty flights later, the turbines came out the back of the engine. As for those that say Ryanair, have a “bad reputation,” I have never worked there, but considering the mass of aircraft and routes they operate, they have an excellent safety record. Do not let this none event stop you from flying with them.
Ryanair has a bad customer service reputation. Not the crews, the company. They charge you for the tiniest things and trying to complain is supposed to be a nightmare! But I've not heard (am in the UK near(ish) an airport they use a lot) of any "dangerous" reputation.
I don't know if all instructors did this, but when I was learning to fly mine would have me practice stuff like this but at a much higher altitude. He'd tell me to pull power and give me a hard deck. I'd have to find a place to land and go through everything as if I was actually landing. He'd do the same thing with just about all the emergencies I could come across. Anything that would actually stop the engine I would just go through the motions and explain everything that I was doing and why. We flew near a small controlled airport and he even worked out with ATC to let me get some experience using the light gun in the event of radio failure. He was an old Army Aviator and he did his best to prepare us for everything.
No. Why? I was taking you with me. I tend to joke when I'm afraid. I didn't have time to be scared. Navigate called tower, mayday then land then bug out. Breathe. 😊
I thought my instructor planned this engine failure midair. Then it kicked back in over a field. Safely landed on the runway after declaring Mayday. Then I got scared realizing it was real. We never flew together again. I ended up with a fighter pilot who liked to show off inversions. This was not an aerobatic plane. I never ate prior to flights . I never threw up in any plane, yet.
Had you practice stuff like what. I don’t believe when you were learning to fly, you were doing anything related to deploying thrust reversers in flight
@blainepetsupplies5354 where in my post did i say anything about "deploying thrust reversers in flight"? If you actually read my post, you would know what my instructor had me practice. I wrote more than the first sentence.
Kelsey often talks about muscle memory and habits. Those can be great things, but they can also be tricky. I used to fly a simulator called Red Baron a lot. I mean really a lot. Take whatever you consider a lot and double it, and it was more than that. So one day I'm driving a small pickup down the 405 freeway in California where the traffic suddenly began stopping ahead of me. Muscle memory kicked in! I pulled back on the steering wheel to get some altitude and lose some speed. It was just for a fraction of a second, but my first reaction, conditioned by a jillion hours of playing a flight simulator, was to fly that pickup truck over the traffic.
I get that, I really do. Back when I worked at a hospital I quickly developed muscle memory when it came to the code used to unlock the drug room door. One day when a recently hired nurse couldn’t remember the code and asked me to remind her of it, I realised that I didn’t remember the actual numbers of the code I had to do it off muscle memory and have her write it down while I entered it. So it can happen.
Great discussion! When I started driving ambulances I was warned that after a long shift, you'll have proceeded thru several red lights after visually clearing the intersections, until you remember that you're back in your personal vehicle.
The second clip brings back some memories of our little GA airport. We had a plane with an engine failure on climbout and tried to bank and turn back to the airport...they lined up...landed on the left main only and flipped at an uncomfortable rate of speed. Fortunately, they walked away unscathed, but the wife made her husband sell the plane as soon as the investigation was complete. I felt bad for him. He was pushing 70 and 'had a few good years left' to fly in his opinion. They are now living in Florida playing golf! Have a great week everyone!
There was a Beechcraft crash this past week north of Atlanta; not sure how old the couple on the plane were but news reports said they had been married 54 years. The gentleman had received clearance to land at DeKalb-Peachtree airport, then disappeared. People who knew him as a competent pilot have theorized he might have had some sort of medical issue. He reported no mechanical problems. So the wife in your example might have been right that he didn’t need to be flying anymore.
I am not a pilot, so from a lay-person's perspective I have to say that return to airfield and landing after the engine failure seemed impressive. I'm glad the pilot is safe!
Thank you for taking the time to make these!!! It's just AMAZING watching your videos as you explain what pilots should or shouldn't have done. I'm one of those people that will walk 2 days straight to get where I need to go before getting on a 5 minute plane ride and face my fear.
I can't stress enough. Is it possible to be more clear than this guy!? and over a matter that most of us are not familiar with. Congrats Kelz! super entertaining and instructional!
Interesting fact. When nasa was training pilots to land the shuttle, the shuttle glided so poorly (it would land about 5 min after passing through 35k ft) that the gulfstream jet they modified to fly like the shuttle flew with gear down and thrust reverser engaged.
@@falxonPSN One of the Shuttle engineers, during the drop tests of Enterprise in the late 70s, stated that the vehicle had "the glide ratio of a pair of pliers."
The thrust reverser redirects idle engine speed thrust forward, in this scenario, for a few seconds. Only when the pilots advance the throttle on the ground would reversing thrust be enabled to slow down. So that is minor. The bigger concern I see is slamming on the right main and slamming on the nose, which is not as sturdy, when ideally the mains take the blow, then tiptoe the nose down.
I suspect the decision for the left runway was based on energy vs remaining runway. He may have felt there wasn’t enough landing distance to stop in time. From my kitchen table I’d like to think I would have selected the runway he was more closely aligned with and slipped down the extra altitude to avoid that steep bank but my kitchen table isn’t falling out of the sky. Can’t complain with his end results though.
Plenty of runway left there. Long 10000ft runway. That's my local, Stansted.This particular day was awful. Really bad crosswinds. To the casual observer, the landing seemed excellent in the conditions we were seeing.
Yeah, from my couch it seemed like maybe a wider return loop would have made everything a lot easier and set up for that crossing runway with plenty of space and without the aggressive S turn. :sips-coffee:
@@daanschravendijk9269 Still working on the CPL, doing my XC syllabus at the moment. Weather has been horrendous, delayed a lot of my training unfortunately. Still loving it though!
The engine failure and your comments made me think about something totally different, but I think it applies. I am a recreational scuba diver. And I have said for years that are two places a diver should be... on the boat or 40 feet down. The surface is where you get beat up by waves, maybe slammed into the dive boat. Same with a plane... it should be on the ground or at a safe altitude. In between is where it is the most potentially dangerous!
The Hawker Siddeley Trident could deploy reverse thrust on the centre engine in mid-flight. I was in the cockpit 3rd seat once when circling Heathrow waiting for a landing slot. ATC said if we can get down quick enough there's a slot available. Co-pilot was flying and he initiated reverse thrust so that we could lose altitude quickly. The pilot was monitoring and told the FO that we were effectively plunging to the ground so he "Might want to monitor that descent rate." It was all done very calmly of course!
Kelsey is so humble. The 2,nd pilot saved his plane cleared the runway and walked it off . You cannot beat the most optimal outcome. One pilot acknowledged another's airmanship.
Scariest landing, I ever had was in a thunderstorm, you could feel the pilot dancing on the rudder pedals. On the way out the door I shook his hand and thanked him very much
Yeah, thunderstorm landings are scary... especially if you're in an "experimental" and a squall pops up on you before you can get back to the strip... The worst I ever got was "sucked" off course at about 80 - 100... I ended up backwards and upside down in a neighbor's barn... Luckily it was "clean-out time" so a big OLD haypile was all there was, right in the middle of the barn... Not much damage to anything (including me)... just embarrassing and funny. ;o)
When I learned to fly, one of the first things they pounded into my head was, if you have an engine failure just after takeoff land ahead because many times, chances are, you won't make it back to a runway, and chance stalling trying to extend the glide. Depends of course what the landscape was like ahead.
I had the same thought. There are AOPA ASI pilots who cannot do the impossible turn, so I seriously doubt I could. I guess it depends on height above the ground and plane performance (and pilot skill, of course).
One thing I learned ridge soaring a Cessna, is that the stall horn is set quite a bit higher than stall; to effectively operate at Vx, you need to fly just above a stall, which means the horn will be on continuously. You basically have no ASI in a hang glider (besides feel and sound), so if it stalls or gets close (sensed by back pressure/sink rate), you just lower the nose; You can clearly tell when a Cessna will stall by feel also, so just lower the nose so you don't drop a tip and pound it.
That second one, he did an interview with AOPA. He was saying that he was so worried about the trees that he turned late. It was, as he admits, focusing too much on one problem and creating another.
737-700/800/900 FCOM: "The thrust reverser can be deployed when either radio altimeter senses less than 10 feet altitude, or when the air/ground safety sensor is in the ground mode"
I know the beeping and screeching is important to get your attention but damn must it increase the tension and stress in your head whilst trying to figure out the best plan while hearing that non stop
Tl;Dr I'm not sure if Boeing changed this but they used to be able to open thrust reversers under a certain altidude. 50 feet or something. The thinking is you have more time with them open and you're not eating up runway waiting for them to open.
That final turn in the second clip is exactly the sort of overshot base turn to final that proves deadly for so many pilots. Frankly, I'd have passed on it and landed straight ahead in the soft field.
That's what I thought when I saw it. Only thing I can think is that he is extremely familiar with the flight characteristics of that plane that he knew he had plenty of lift at that speed, temperature, and angle, despite the audible stall warning.
If it was a bare open field, you would have a solid point. However, that snow looked rather deep and that could catch the gear and cause the aircraft to flip.
Yeah, I was thinking, "Right, made the right call to make the 180, he was high enough for that, but... man, you're too low to line that up, just go for the snow, it's soft, it'll help cushion things." Particularly in a light single, it's designed for a bit of "off-road" abuse to the gear, and hey, you already made the *airport*, don't take an excessive risk on trying to avoid any airframe damage.
As others have pointed out, the 737 can deploy the thrust reversers below 10ft RA. There are several similar clips on YT, also with a 737 classic from SAS.
Kelsey you're doing crazy good work out here. I am not a pilot, but I listen to your videos and when I watch not only your videos but videos of plane crashes I find myself troubleshooting them the way they should have been done. Which is insane. I'm already catching the issues that you then explain and if I watch videos of commercial liners that had crashes I'm like why didn't they just disengage the auto pilot fully and the reengage it or why didn't they do this and that? And I know that it's completely different when you're in it, that's not what I'm saying, but the fact that a layman like me with 0 air time can catch stuff like that just from watching your videos is amazing! One day one of your viewers is just gonna end up landing a plane that they are not even qualified to fly in an emergency scenario and it's gonna be because of you! 🙏👏🙌 ✈️ 💖
I’ve used Ryanair many times, their pilots are amazing. Yes, it’s a bus with wings and it’s super cheap but in my experience, they’re some of the best I’ve seen. Maybe it was real windy and a super fast landing was needed.
Honestly, without Ryanair, Irish people like me couldn't afford to fly abroad. Aer Lingus can be horribly expensive. Ryanair gave them commercial competition. I luckily have never had an issue when flying with them. We are lucky to have them IMO
I am English and have flown many times with Ryanair. They have always got me there on time whatever the weather. I remember one particularly turbulent flight from Shannon to Liverpool during the storms of 2006, with plenty of chop thrown in for good measure. It was the day after the infamous Lufthansa Airbus almost getting blown off the runway incident, and of course we had viewed the footage shortly before boarding. The entire pax load erupted into spontaneous cheers and applause as we slammed onto the runway after an hour of squeaky bum time. Happy days!
@@pancakesgo7995 I was at sea in the Bristol Channel when Ophelia hit. Kicked my backside good and proper. I clocked 92mph of wind so heaven knows what it must have been like on your flight. Respect to Ryan air pilots.
"Stable approach????...we don't need no stinking stable approach!" Congratulations on the new editor and graphics ,looking good! (hope the loose wheel video comes out soon!!!)
Pinned comment (from Mentour Pilot) says this was during a major storm (assuming you mean the Ryanair 737). Approach was as stable as could be managed in that situation.
Another great video Kelsey! Thank you for making these videos for us. I had not flown since before 9/11, but after watching your videos for some years now, my wife and I have flown 4 times in the last year (2 round-trip flights). I feel more confident knowing what you guys do up there. Plus I can listen to the radio traffic on my scanner. How often do pilots communicate enroute (across the US) vs using the text system? We also have a channel for about 5 months now. If you have time, give us a look and see if you like what we do! Thanks you the support, and keep the blue side up brother.
Amazing how much of aviation is not only training but awareness of what you're thinking and doing in context. Just fascinating and amazing how human beings are able to use the instincts, learning and abilities we have to do such things- and do them in a way where the extreme majority of it is done safely!
We had two bad experiences with Ryan air, both hard landings. One in particular jarred my back causing me to cry out in pain. The impression we had and still have of Ryan air is to get the aircraft down and on time at all costs. We haven’t flown with them for several years now.
That would be correct. Hard landings reduce the chance of needing a go around and they do that because three go arounds within a certain time frame means Ryanair will force the pilot to go back to the simulators for retraining.
That last turn had me anxious for what I was about to see, could have easily been a stall spin at that point. Glad it turned out okay in the end! I agree, I think I would have gone for the cross wind runway in this situation and kept those last few turns much shallower, though these things are always easier to say with hindsight.
Or no runway at all. keep in mind that a field is often a possibility. The turn back to the departure runway after an engine failure is called "the impossible turn", because you will increase the already high angle of attack even further, often to the point of a stall.
He took a gamble to save the airplane lol. Your solution would have made you more likely to survive upside down in a destroyed plane :) (after it goes off the end of the runway and the nose gear collapses in the mud at 30 knots) Neither answer is incorrect. It just depends on your priorities.
The whole situation made me nervous, after seeing those Air Safety Institute videos regarding engine out on climb outs and advising people to not 180 back to the airport
@@thevictoryoverhimself7298 Airplanes can be replaced, people can't. Those are some long runways and if speed or altitude needed to be lost a forward slip or flaps could have been deployed. Easy to loose the extra energy, not so easy to gain it back. Agree though that neither answer is incorrect, as I said before - easier to comment/speculate with hindsight. The pilot here did a great job at keeping it all under control at those slow speeds close to stall.
@@JoshAntBrown Saving both the human and the airplane is worth a try :) Energy management is something not even all experienced pilots have. Some people who only play video games might have better instincts than a 30 years airline pilot. Its one of those athlete things :)
As an Aviation Fire Fighter when all goes wrong , you revert to your training . I think the same happened here with getting back on centre line even though it probably never mattered , but still Pilot Skills ;-)
That single engine plane with the engine problem, that was impressive. Especially that S-turn he makes to line up to the runway as he lands. Brilliant flying!
We used to use idle reverse on the Caravelle in the flare. It made for a very nice touchdown. The Caravelle wing was very clean and had little sweep, so it wanted to keep flying. We also deployed the speed brake throughout the approach on that aircraft. We used inboard engine reverse thrust in the air on the early DC-8's as a speed brake during descent occasionally, but it shook the airframe so much that it made pax nervous.
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ryanair charge for pre touchdown reverse thrust deployment.its about £10 per passenger, ....your baggage is a hundred yards before the threshold of the runway, usually in mrs jones tea shop lawn. she charges £1 per item recovery and 50p per day storage. .pot of tea is a very reasonable £10, extra £1 if you want it hot....happy flying folks.
I am NOT a commercial pilot - or even a general aviation pilot but I guess I've seen enough of your videos to have learned a few things... I know there was a LOT going on - and the pilot DID make a safe landing - but even I wondered why he did not get lined up and land on the strip that he overflew while not lined up. (As Kelsey pointed out. I caught that in real time - Thanks Kelsey!)
I wondered about that too...but I thought he had some other reason then when he said the same thing...I was like my instinct was right. Keep the blue side up⬆️.
We unfortunately don't know every other factor here but I can't tell if that runway would've been a better choice because he was in the middle of it and he definitely needed to make a sharp bank too (albeit not as sharp as the left one) but he probably wasn't confident about the remaining length of that runway so he might've overrun the runway
During my ppl training, I had a instructor who would pull the power at 200' agl on the climb out and then have me practice flying the airplane straight ahead to land. It wasn't until about 10' to 20' he would put the power back in and up we would go again. He would always "fail" the engine at the worst times to get me used to thinking ahead and having a plan in my head at all times. I always felt comfortable in my ability to handle an engine loss, but praise be God that I haven't had a real one yet.
@@lisanadinebaker5179 Yes indeed...as a young pilot he had suffered a real engine failure so being prepared was really important to him. Last time I heard from him he was flying business jets.
Ooo! When he was saying the car example around 7:58, my family actually experienced that! We were on our way up a mountain for the holidays a few years back in a snow storm and were one of the last cars let up the mountain before they closed it. We were sitting in bumper to bumper traffic with the heat blowing and listening to music. Then the traffic started to move so we began to edge our way up when all of a sudden all our lights inside and outside the car started to flicker. It looked as if our car was being possessed. My dad, realizing something was very wrong, looked for a turn out and saw one on the opposite side of the rode. He turned the car into it (so now we’re facing down the mountain) when all the lights, breaks, and steering went out. My dad pulled the emergency break and we slid for a few feet before coming to a stop. Ended up stuck there for 15 hours overnight in the snow storm. The tow trucks couldn’t find our white car in the snow (and some were sent to try to come up the mountain without chains which was headache inducing) but the highway patrol knew we were there and checked on us a few times. Scarryist shit of my life. Ended up getting towed in the morning and found out our alternator blew. Our toe truck driver was very nice but had been working for 28 hours at that point trying to get all the people that were stranded. Apparently it was more than 50 cars that night. Also had Del Taco while they looked at the car and it was the best meal of my life. Scary at the time but a fun memory now. Anyhoo, his example made me remember that.
Hey Kelsey, there was a bad crash due to asymmetric thrust reversers in flight - a Boeing 767. It was Lauda Air 004 on 25 May 1991 and it's on Wikipedia.
Lauda Air flight 004 experienced an un-commanded reverse thruster fault 40 minutes after departing Bangkok. The flight came down in Northern Western Thailand. That was May 1991. No survivors.
As a 17 year old taking my first ever flight in 1970, just out of boot camp and flying to my duty station. I was amazed at how far I could see and spent the whole flight looking out my window. My seat was over the wing and I could see the engine clearly. Preparing to land I watched the houses get bigger as we got closer to the ground and I was wondering if that was usual procedure. Just when it seemed we were going to strike something the runway came streaking into view. I breathed a sigh of relief when suddenly the rear cover of the engine flew up like it was coming apart. I about had a heart attack! lol I only learned later it was just the air brakes deploying.
I felt that way during my first landing as a teenager when I became worried about the sounds of air brakes and the reversers coming online so the plane can be configured to land. Fortunately I had the presence of mind to look at the other passengers and the flight attendants and decide that whatever was happening, it was normal and I calmed down.
That happened to me too when I was about the same age. Looked out the window and the rear of the engine had lifted up exposing the engine. What a fright!
I went on my first airplane ride ever this year, Thanksgiving Eve. I don't know the model of planes I was on but the first one was an American Airlines plane about 1/3 to 1/2 the size of a 747. Then 2nd one was about 2/3 the size of the 1st. The initial acceleration was exciting to me, but I'll admit that when they started clamping hard on the brakes after touchdown, my butt began to pucker a little.😁 I wasn't really afraid of flying but all your commentary and explanation of all the mechanics of how it all works, it made me even more at ease. Thanks Kelsey.
What you are missing is that it is Ryanair who guarantee slamming the plane into the runway in any weather condition. Applying reverse thrust before landing helps them achieve this goal.
On a take off engine out I was taught to not turn back to the airport. You need something like a 700-800 feet minimum before you could turn back to the airport. On a Cessna 152, engine out, you drop 500 feet in a 180 degree turn. The loop like turn is actually over 180 degree, so more then a 500 foot drop. Add another couple hundred of feet. Many who try without enough altitude stall it in trying to get back to airport. -Kurt
Yes, I was taught the same. I suspect that white stuff visible on the ground may be a clue as to why this worked out for him. Climb performance is significantly better in the more dense air on a cold day. If this had been a hot and humid day instead, that turn may have ended very badly for him.
500 agl is too low for a power off turnback. Ok if some power left on. I practiced power on turnbacks EFATO from 400 agl in 1998. They work. and it is more than 180 if landing on the opposite runway.
I don’t know about this version, but earlier versions of the 737 you have to have squat switch (weight on wheels) and the nose wheels spun up to minimum 70 knots before thrust reverse is available. In the De Havilland Trident it was standard to open thrust reverse on the number two engine on final approach.
Another aspect not mentioned is there is two different "idle" modes, one in flight and one on the ground. When the 737 lands, there is only a couple seconds before it will switch to that ground idle mode, which is lower than in flight. So if you miss that window for deploying the reverses, it takes even longer for the engines to spool back up and provide power. So that's one reason that pilots are automatically looking to get them deployed ASAP the second they touchdown. Not a big deal when reverse thrusters are not needed, but a very big deal when they are needed.
The pilot in your 2nd recap was *lucky* to have a good outcome. Turning back to the airport on takeoff due to engine trouble is often fatal. Wings level means greater lift. That guy either really knew his airplane, or he was incredibly lucky.
Quick thinking is definitely required in situations like this. As an instructor once told me, "never run out of altitude, airspeed and ideas all at the same time"
Yeah, I was about to comment the same. That's called the "impossible turn" for a reason. It usually isn't possible and instead results in crashing before reaching the field. Perhaps his plane had better climb performance than most light singles. Also, I suspect that the white stuff on the ground is also a hint at part of why he made it: climb performance is significantly better on cold days than on hot ones due to the more dense air. If he had tried that same maneuver on a hot and humid day, he might have ended up in those trees instead. For light singles, I was always taught to find the least bad spot to land that is more or less in front of you if the engine quits after takeoff. You trade a whole lot of energy to make that 180 degree turn and you usually don't have that much to spare so soon after takeoff. That was one advantage of the airport where I did the early part of my flight training, though: it was on a 300-400' hill, so shortly after passing the departure end of the runway, you had an extra 300-400' of altitude to trade if needed. On the other hand, you really, really didn't want to land short there and the wind flowing down off of the hill into the valley below would pull you down a bit on short final (there was a 300-400' drop at both ends of the runway.)
Since I haven't seen all your videos yet but have you or would you do some piloting your 747 for us? Would love to see you doing great take-offs and landings! And the 747 was always my favorite and I have flown in a few!!
Probably needed to exit the runway at the nearest possible exit in order to avoid taxiing half across the airport. I experienced that on a Ryanair flight multiple times, I actually enjoy it as a passenger, because it can save you good 10-20 minutes when you cut the queue of all the planes waiting at the taxiways further down 😄And 20 minutes is Ryanair's standard turnaround time, so I suppose it makes a lot of sense for them too.
This is a 22 landing away from the terminal at STN. There is a rapid exit turn but two more options a bit further down. The difference in taxi time is literally one minute so not really an issue. The RET is more for the benefit of the airport to get aircraft off the runway ASAP so clearance can be given promptly to inbound traffic at peak arrival times.
Love your videos, Kelsey. Wanted to point out something obvious. There’s only one line on the runway where safety margins on left and right are the same. Great emergency landing, IMO. Yes, final bank to turn was too much but *he still heard stall warning*. Please consider doing video about pro pilots who still don’t hear loud, multiple warnings in their plane.
I watch planes from the very spot the Ryanair clip was filmed from weekly, it's a couple of miles from my farm. Looking at that clip, I have to be honest and say that's one of the better Ryanair landings I've seen. They're usually a much more violent and smoky affair... I'm sure if I look hard enough, I'll spot the arrestor hook one day 😆
To add to what Mentour Pilot mentioned, we use thrust reversers on clear days as well to reduced the brake cooling requirements in order to achieve short turnarounds.
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Wow, he was very lucky. I was taught if the engine fails, to look for a field 30 degrees to the left or right and not to attempt to go back to the airport because in the vast majority of cases you don't have the enegry to make the 180 turn and get back to the runway.
Hey there, I'm not a pilot, but I'm an ATCO, who was taught part of my ATCO theory by a Boeing pilot. The way he explained the thrust reverser logic in Boeing (or at least those types he was familiar with) is that you're able to deploy a thrust reverser as soon as your radioaltimeter altitude reaches
I'll often deploy TR's 1-2 seconds before touchdown if I feel I'm coming in a little too hot. The TR's take about 1-2 seconds to actually become effective, and it doesn't have any negative consequence to do so. The pilot can sense if the aircraft has still too much lift to stall organically above the runway, so he forces a stall to get positive contact with the ground. This approach was really hectic with lots of lateral instability, and many pilots might have rejected. This guy was experienced and determined to get the equipment down and I respect that.
When I saw a similar video of a Ryan Air plane landing on another channel I made a joke and was slammed for it, with the haters saying that Ryan Air lands at airports with incredibly short runways and horrible weather and I should be more informed. This is why the pilot deployed his reverse thrusters early-he's used to doing it all the time.
My oldest brother use to ferry planes to the new owners, before he became a Fed-Ex pilot.. He took off and while still low and over the runway the engine blew up just after he retracted the gear. When he told me the story, he said he did not have enough runway beneath him to push the plane back down to land, so he did an aileron roll to get all lift off the wings, and allow the plane to drop straight down. At the last moment he leveled the plane off, dropped the gear and landed on the remaining part of the runway and coasted into the grass between the runway and the taxiway. It was at this point he called the tower once the plane was on the grass and nothing but just a whisper came out.
A/G relays are one of the components who allows the T/R CVM to pressurise the actuators, but also if the R/A is less than 10ft then the logic still will energise the reverser deploy solenoid and then allow the actuators to extend then deploying the actual reverser
That Mooney pilot showed how the impossible turn is possible with the right combination of conditions. He was extremely well versed in flying a Mooney and Mooney's are as good as it gets at gliding in that class. It was nice and cold out and he knew the airport well. Also, I think that was not the stall horn, but instead the gear horn, as he kept it up as long as possible, as it detected too low a manifold pressure.
Is the Mooney a constant speed propeller? Any idea why the pilot didn't feather the prop? (I've only flown 172s so I know zip about constant speed props)
@@JerryAsher Most Moonies have constant speed propellers, including the incident airplane. He was busy flying it to the ground. Feathering isn't going to do THAT much for you there
I hate that saying so bad. Cause if the plane is totally destroyed and you walk away. Not a good landing. Or if all the passengers die and the pilot walk away, definitely not a good landing.
@@MrT------5743 a good landing means EVERYONE on the plane walks away. That's the pilots MAIN responsibility. The ideal landing is one where you can re-use the airplane without any repairs.
@@joelee2371 that is not how the stupid saying goes. It doesn't say 'everyone' it says 'you'. AND it doesn't say anything about planes can be replaced people can't. So all the animals dieing on the plane still makes it a good landing? How about everyone loses all their arms (they can still walk away). Is that a good landing? How about this so called good landing causes a fire and 100 homes burn down to the ground? This is how dumb this saying is. I know it is just a dumb saying. But it is totally wrong. Walking away from a landing is not a measurement of if it was a good landing. It's such a stupid saying and it's not even a little bit funny.
I have heard that some military aircraft can allow this and has been used to effect a vey steep nose down descent into some airfields where they dont want to run up a load of speed in the hard descent. This is done whilst very high though. Not whist landing. I think I even saw a video on it. Not something commercial will ever want to do because that severe nose down attitude freaks out your passengers. We used to use hard rudder right or left and nose down hard to drop out of the sky quickly quite a lot on microlights because it gives you safety to come in high and makes sure you always get to the field incase of an engine issue... nothing worse in single engine microlights than a flat low approach on a short field if you lose your only engine.
I've always heard negative things about Ryanair too. Also, I've flown with them almost 100 times and my experience has never been bad. To this day idk where all that hate is coming from 🤷🏻♀️
Actually from a pilot point of view FYR pilots are preety danm good. I fly for another airline. When I hear my FO is ex Ryanair Im a lot more confident in them than if I hear they are ex military or some other airlines.
@@PCG1970 It's a 737 "feature". Even the A380 has softer landings than a 737-XXX has. I've been on other airlines who use the 737 (last month on Singapore Airlines), and they also had hard landings.
Kelsey’s proud dad moment at 10:39 was priceless! Well done! My flight just landed in Tijuana and it was really windy. Pilot did a crab landing it was awesome! First thing I did was watch 74 gear when I landed lol!!
Pilot about to do a go-around: I got 99 problems but thrust reversers deployed in flight ain't one *Thrust reversers deploy in flight* Pilot: 100. I got 100 problems.
You’d be surprised. There are plenty of ex Legacy pilots now happily flying with Ryanair. Any airline can have firm touchdown- it’s not unique to Ryanair.
What you said about lining up on a runway with that little prop was a really good point that didn’t immediately occur to me. An aircraft in a 3° bank is much much less likely to drop a wing during a stall than one in a 30° bank. You really don’t want to be turning on a dime with an engine out, or you could end up sliding across an airport on your back after a nasty asymmetric stall.
I saw my first Dreamliner yesterday when it flew right over my apartment and it was SO cool!! I love the smooth sound of those engines. I live right in the flight path of SeaTac now, I love it.
This happened during a severe storm in London about 5 years back, I think it was storm “Doris”.
The Boeing 737 have, like Kelsey pointed out, a system logic that allows thrust-reverser deployment below 10 feet Radio-altitude.
These pilots were fighting extreme weather during this landing with gusts way over 30kt.
The pilot flying was likely super focused on getting the aircraft down and start to brake as soon as possible, hence the slightly premature thrust reverser deployment.
Agreed. Thanks Captain for clarifying it.
Mentour Pilot & Kelsey ❤
another internet expert. like everyone on youtube is suddenly a pilot.
(that was sarcasm to be very clear, love the accident videos)
I was just thinking back to one of your videos where you explained that. Thanks for the input
Thanks for the clarification!
Last week, i experienced a go-around on an A320. Everyone on the plane was screaming but I found it really fun because I actually knew what was happening, thanks to your channel!
You are evil xd
had a couple of times at salt lake do to changing winds--it changed from north to south or visa versa--people got very nervous
Same, first time I had a go around it was pretty fun
Same, go around from 100ft or so in a perfect wx, pax around me are discussing all sorts of scary scenarios, turned out to be a pup on a runway
I experienced my first go around on a CRJ900 earlier this year. I was like oh ok, there goes the airport LOL. We ended up coming around and landing in the opposite direction due to funky winds. I Everyone was freaking out for no reason.
The relief in his voice when he answered ATC "yes I can hear you" almost made me tear up. Great video! Good job, unknown pilot. I'd fly with you at the controls any day.
You might be related to me!
ill tear you up
@@FuelPoverty we probably are, it's not a common name! I have a ton of relatives I don't know!
@@Squids_Vlogs rrrreeeaalllllyy
Best part is the ATC saying "Nice job dude". 10/10 made my day by acknowledging the landing
You say you never want to get reviewed by you, but you are so understanding and kind to the people you review.
I can't believe what happened to myself when I heard that stall buzzer go off just sitting here in my chair watching this video, my hands instinctively moved forward listening to it. Now I understand why my instructor taught me the way he did (an ex Lancaster pilot). Great video Kelsey, he was certainly on that ragged-edge, thanks. :)
If you hear the sound you must immediately jump off the plane. There is no other option :D
I used to fly the 737. Seem to remember you could select reverse at 10 feet on the radio altimeter. I have done exactly what the Ryanair, pilot did. It was on a 6500ft snow covered runway, in slightly windy conditions, so max thrust needed. Like the guy in the video, I thought the wheels had touched (they had not) and opened the reversers too early. The plane landed smoothly, stopped great, so this is not a big deal. On the video, the translating sleeves open on the engine, but it takes a little longer for the engine to reverse flow, so the landing is fine. On the 72 seat turboprop, I used to fly, selecting reverse before the nose wheel hit the deck, it would smash the nose down hard. On that aircraft, interlocks were supposed to prevent it reversing in flight. Well, they got worn out and somebody managed to reverse an engine in flight. About twenty flights later, the turbines came out the back of the engine. As for those that say Ryanair, have a “bad reputation,” I have never worked there, but considering the mass of aircraft and routes they operate, they have an excellent safety record. Do not let this none event stop you from flying with them.
Ryanair has a bad customer service reputation. Not the crews, the company. They charge you for the tiniest things and trying to complain is supposed to be a nightmare! But I've not heard (am in the UK near(ish) an airport they use a lot) of any "dangerous" reputation.
@@y_fam_goeglyd don't read the news much then I guess.
@@y_fam_goeglyd Soft landings cost an extra 20 euro at Ryanair.
There's no weight switch on the gear preventing reverser deployment?
@@y_fam_goeglyd I don't understand why anyone who has flown Ryanair worries about the reputation.
You get, well I always did, what you have paid for.
Looked like a decent Ryanair landing to me.
The pilot: "Greased it. Like butter."
True! Now let’s compare the landing to other airlines landings…
@@AR_119 haha, yeah! I can imagine that!
@@GhostWatcher2024 they probably charged extra for it 😂
Totally. I've ever only felt like a sardine in a can on a Ryanair flight..
I don't know if all instructors did this, but when I was learning to fly mine would have me practice stuff like this but at a much higher altitude. He'd tell me to pull power and give me a hard deck. I'd have to find a place to land and go through everything as if I was actually landing. He'd do the same thing with just about all the emergencies I could come across. Anything that would actually stop the engine I would just go through the motions and explain everything that I was doing and why. We flew near a small controlled airport and he even worked out with ATC to let me get some experience using the light gun in the event of radio failure. He was an old Army Aviator and he did his best to prepare us for everything.
No. Why? I was taking you with me. I tend to joke when I'm afraid. I didn't have time to be scared. Navigate called tower, mayday then land then bug out. Breathe. 😊
I thought my instructor planned this engine failure midair. Then it kicked back in over a field. Safely landed on the runway after declaring Mayday. Then I got scared realizing it was real. We never flew together again. I ended up with a fighter pilot who liked to show off inversions. This was not an aerobatic plane. I never ate prior to flights . I never threw up in any plane, yet.
Had you practice stuff like what. I don’t believe when you were learning to fly, you were doing anything related to deploying thrust reversers in flight
@blainepetsupplies5354 where in my post did i say anything about "deploying thrust reversers in flight"? If you actually read my post, you would know what my instructor had me practice. I wrote more than the first sentence.
Kelsey often talks about muscle memory and habits. Those can be great things, but they can also be tricky. I used to fly a simulator called Red Baron a lot. I mean really a lot. Take whatever you consider a lot and double it, and it was more than that.
So one day I'm driving a small pickup down the 405 freeway in California where the traffic suddenly began stopping ahead of me. Muscle memory kicked in! I pulled back on the steering wheel to get some altitude and lose some speed. It was just for a fraction of a second, but my first reaction, conditioned by a jillion hours of playing a flight simulator, was to fly that pickup truck over the traffic.
I get that, I really do. Back when I worked at a hospital I quickly developed muscle memory when it came to the code used to unlock the drug room door. One day when a recently hired nurse couldn’t remember the code and asked me to remind her of it, I realised that I didn’t remember the actual numbers of the code I had to do it off muscle memory and have her write it down while I entered it. So it can happen.
😂😂😂😂 Brilliant
Apparently you made it over them. Good job.
Got a job driving forklifts. Now I turn the windscreen wipers on when I want to reverse my car.
Great discussion! When I started driving ambulances I was warned that after a long shift, you'll have proceeded thru several red lights after visually clearing the intersections, until you remember that you're back in your personal vehicle.
I love how you watch the video smiling in admiration and satisfaction as if you were the pilot himself. Says what a nice and special person you are.
The look of pride on your face @10:38 made me well up. I can see the love for your fellow aviator, and it’s honestly touching.
🤮
The second clip brings back some memories of our little GA airport. We had a plane with an engine failure on climbout and tried to bank and turn back to the airport...they lined up...landed on the left main only and flipped at an uncomfortable rate of speed. Fortunately, they walked away unscathed, but the wife made her husband sell the plane as soon as the investigation was complete. I felt bad for him. He was pushing 70 and 'had a few good years left' to fly in his opinion. They are now living in Florida playing golf! Have a great week everyone!
Wow, really cool story!
There was a Beechcraft crash this past week north of Atlanta; not sure how old the couple on the plane were but news reports said they had been married 54 years. The gentleman had received clearance to land at DeKalb-Peachtree airport, then disappeared. People who knew him as a competent pilot have theorized he might have had some sort of medical issue. He reported no mechanical problems. So the wife in your example might have been right that he didn’t need to be flying anymore.
I wonder if the wife had an accident in her car, would the husband make his wife sell the car?
@@Eternal_Tech at the age of 70 probably
@hsbvt - if Mama ain't happy, nobody's happy.
I am not a pilot, so from a lay-person's perspective I have to say that return to airfield and landing after the engine failure seemed impressive. I'm glad the pilot is safe!
Patrick
Thank you for taking the time to make these!!! It's just AMAZING watching your videos as you explain what pilots should or shouldn't have done. I'm one of those people that will walk 2 days straight to get where I need to go before getting on a 5 minute plane ride and face my fear.
That was a HELL OF A landing on the second video! Great job to this pilot!
I can't stress enough. Is it possible to be more clear than this guy!? and over a matter that most of us are not familiar with. Congrats Kelz! super entertaining and instructional!
This is a feature, this version of the 738 actually allows for deployment of thrust reversers at 10ft radio altimeter.
Yeah I was going to say
Yea
@@Dylan-bh6uj so?
@@GhostWatcher2024 737-800 it’s short for
@@GhostWatcher2024 738 is short for the 800 version.
Interesting fact. When nasa was training pilots to land the shuttle, the shuttle glided so poorly (it would land about 5 min after passing through 35k ft) that the gulfstream jet they modified to fly like the shuttle flew with gear down and thrust reverser engaged.
"How's she fly?"
"Like a brick."
"What?"
"You throw anything hard enough, and it'll look like it's flying."
😁
So basically the aerodynamic properties of a semi truck with wings.
@@EdwinWiles literally, the astronauts called it a flying brick….
Yup, the good old STA (Shuttle Training Aircraft).
@@falxonPSN One of the Shuttle engineers, during the drop tests of Enterprise in the late 70s, stated that the vehicle had "the glide ratio of a pair of pliers."
The thrust reverser redirects idle engine speed thrust forward, in this scenario, for a few seconds. Only when the pilots advance the throttle on the ground would reversing thrust be enabled to slow down. So that is minor. The bigger concern I see is slamming on the right main and slamming on the nose, which is not as sturdy, when ideally the mains take the blow, then tiptoe the nose down.
I used to be scared of flying before I started watching your videos, now I’m terrified
LMAO
You’re not kidding 🫣
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂🤣
There was some form of wholesome message in there.....just not today
And I love flying more and more every time.
I suspect the decision for the left runway was based on energy vs remaining runway. He may have felt there wasn’t enough landing distance to stop in time. From my kitchen table I’d like to think I would have selected the runway he was more closely aligned with and slipped down the extra altitude to avoid that steep bank but my kitchen table isn’t falling out of the sky. Can’t complain with his end results though.
Plenty of runway left there. Long 10000ft runway. That's my local, Stansted.This particular day was awful. Really bad crosswinds. To the casual observer, the landing seemed excellent in the conditions we were seeing.
@@pauldunn5978 I think "some guy" is talking about the GA plane with the engine failure, not the Ryanair 737.
For future reference, if your kitchen table is falling out of the sky, you built your house wrong.
@@beeble2003 Aah yes! I stand corrected.
Yeah, from my couch it seemed like maybe a wider return loop would have made everything a lot easier and set up for that crossing runway with plenty of space and without the aggressive S turn. :sips-coffee:
If I am not mistaken, 737s use radio altimeters to allow thrust reversers to deploy (I believe 7 feet above ground the thrust reversers can deploy)
According to Mentour Pilot's comment, 10'.
Hi Kelsey - your channel is part of what inspired me to become a pilot, and I’m now working on my CPL. Thanks for the great videos!
congratulations I hope you enjoy it.
@@74gear with you being at Atlas I thought you would have access to the 737 systems manual.
How is it going now?
@@daanschravendijk9269 Still working on the CPL, doing my XC syllabus at the moment. Weather has been horrendous, delayed a lot of my training unfortunately. Still loving it though!
@@cameronwise-maas5610inspired me to become a pilot as well. Unfortunately I’m too old so I have to settle for TH-cam.
The engine failure and your comments made me think about something totally different, but I think it applies. I am a recreational scuba diver. And I have said for years that are two places a diver should be... on the boat or 40 feet down. The surface is where you get beat up by waves, maybe slammed into the dive boat. Same with a plane... it should be on the ground or at a safe altitude. In between is where it is the most potentially dangerous!
The Hawker Siddeley Trident could deploy reverse thrust on the centre engine in mid-flight. I was in the cockpit 3rd seat once when circling Heathrow waiting for a landing slot. ATC said if we can get down quick enough there's a slot available. Co-pilot was flying and he initiated reverse thrust so that we could lose altitude quickly. The pilot was monitoring and told the FO that we were effectively plunging to the ground so he "Might want to monitor that descent rate." It was all done very calmly of course!
Kelsey is so humble. The 2,nd pilot saved his plane cleared the runway and walked it off . You cannot beat the most optimal outcome. One pilot acknowledged another's airmanship.
Scariest landing, I ever had was in a thunderstorm, you could feel the pilot dancing on the rudder pedals. On the way out the door I shook his hand and thanked him very much
Yeah, thunderstorm landings are scary... especially if you're in an "experimental" and a squall pops up on you before you can get back to the strip... The worst I ever got was "sucked" off course at about 80 - 100... I ended up backwards and upside down in a neighbor's barn... Luckily it was "clean-out time" so a big OLD haypile was all there was, right in the middle of the barn... Not much damage to anything (including me)... just embarrassing and funny. ;o)
Cringe
When I learned to fly, one of the first things they pounded into my head was, if you have an engine failure just after takeoff land ahead because many times, chances are, you won't make it back to a runway, and chance stalling trying to extend the glide. Depends of course what the landscape was like ahead.
I had the same thought. There are AOPA ASI pilots who cannot do the impossible turn, so I seriously doubt I could. I guess it depends on height above the ground and plane performance (and pilot skill, of course).
One thing I learned ridge soaring a Cessna, is that the stall horn is set quite a bit higher than stall; to effectively operate at Vx, you need to fly just above a stall, which means the horn will be on continuously. You basically have no ASI in a hang glider (besides feel and sound), so if it stalls or gets close (sensed by back pressure/sink rate), you just lower the nose; You can clearly tell when a Cessna will stall by feel also, so just lower the nose so you don't drop a tip and pound it.
That second one, he did an interview with AOPA. He was saying that he was so worried about the trees that he turned late. It was, as he admits, focusing too much on one problem and creating another.
Turned too late to the runway and overshot it.
Not a pilot but I was worried about those tree too....
737-700/800/900 FCOM: "The thrust reverser can be deployed when either radio altimeter senses less than 10 feet altitude, or when the air/ground safety sensor is in the ground mode"
Im fairly sure it is Stansted Airport, almost all of Ryanair 737s are 800s there so you got this right.
Kelsey, you are a good teacher. Thanks for all the information and time you take to help us under aviation better.
I know the beeping and screeching is important to get your attention but damn must it increase the tension and stress in your head whilst trying to figure out the best plan while hearing that non stop
Tl;Dr I'm not sure if Boeing changed this but they used to be able to open thrust reversers under a certain altidude. 50 feet or something. The thinking is you have more time with them open and you're not eating up runway waiting for them to open.
That final turn in the second clip is exactly the sort of overshot base turn to final that proves deadly for so many pilots. Frankly, I'd have passed on it and landed straight ahead in the soft field.
That's what I thought when I saw it. Only thing I can think is that he is extremely familiar with the flight characteristics of that plane that he knew he had plenty of lift at that speed, temperature, and angle, despite the audible stall warning.
I agree. The pilot here pulls it off, which is wonderful, but I was thinking exactly the same thing. At that point, I'd just go for the snow.
If it was a bare open field, you would have a solid point. However, that snow looked rather deep and that could catch the gear and cause the aircraft to flip.
I had the same thought, though I can understand the appeal, under stress, of going for the runway when it's so close. I'm glad it worked out!
Yeah, I was thinking, "Right, made the right call to make the 180, he was high enough for that, but... man, you're too low to line that up, just go for the snow, it's soft, it'll help cushion things." Particularly in a light single, it's designed for a bit of "off-road" abuse to the gear, and hey, you already made the *airport*, don't take an excessive risk on trying to avoid any airframe damage.
I had an inadvertent reverser deploy on the left engine of a CRJ-700 during sim training. It was an eye opening experience.
As others have pointed out, the 737 can deploy the thrust reversers below 10ft RA. There are several similar clips on YT, also with a 737 classic from SAS.
Kelsey you're doing crazy good work out here. I am not a pilot, but I listen to your videos and when I watch not only your videos but videos of plane crashes I find myself troubleshooting them the way they should have been done. Which is insane. I'm already catching the issues that you then explain and if I watch videos of commercial liners that had crashes I'm like why didn't they just disengage the auto pilot fully and the reengage it or why didn't they do this and that? And I know that it's completely different when you're in it, that's not what I'm saying, but the fact that a layman like me with 0 air time can catch stuff like that just from watching your videos is amazing! One day one of your viewers is just gonna end up landing a plane that they are not even qualified to fly in an emergency scenario and it's gonna be because of you! 🙏👏🙌 ✈️ 💖
I’ve used Ryanair many times, their pilots are amazing. Yes, it’s a bus with wings and it’s super cheap but in my experience, they’re some of the best I’ve seen. Maybe it was real windy and a super fast landing was needed.
Honestly, without Ryanair, Irish people like me couldn't afford to fly abroad. Aer Lingus can be horribly expensive. Ryanair gave them commercial competition. I luckily have never had an issue when flying with them. We are lucky to have them IMO
I am English and have flown many times with Ryanair. They have always got me there on time whatever the weather. I remember one particularly turbulent flight from Shannon to Liverpool during the storms of 2006, with plenty of chop thrown in for good measure. It was the day after the infamous Lufthansa Airbus almost getting blown off the runway incident, and of course we had viewed the footage shortly before boarding. The entire pax load erupted into spontaneous cheers and applause as we slammed onto the runway after an hour of squeaky bum time. Happy days!
@@pancakesgo7995 I was at sea in the Bristol Channel when Ophelia hit. Kicked my backside good and proper. I clocked 92mph of wind so heaven knows what it must have been like on your flight. Respect to Ryan air pilots.
@@missimccarthy8408 stay on your island
@@DrWhom uhhhh xenophobic much?
"Stable approach????...we don't need no stinking stable approach!" Congratulations on the new editor and graphics ,looking good! (hope the loose wheel video comes out soon!!!)
Pinned comment (from Mentour Pilot) says this was during a major storm (assuming you mean the Ryanair 737). Approach was as stable as could be managed in that situation.
Another great video Kelsey! Thank you for making these videos for us. I had not flown since before 9/11, but after watching your videos for some years now, my wife and I have flown 4 times in the last year (2 round-trip flights). I feel more confident knowing what you guys do up there. Plus I can listen to the radio traffic on my scanner.
How often do pilots communicate enroute (across the US) vs using the text system?
We also have a channel for about 5 months now. If you have time, give us a look and see if you like what we do! Thanks you the support, and keep the blue side up brother.
The guy that had the engine failure did an amazing job safely getting back on the ground.
Amazing how much of aviation is not only training but awareness of what you're thinking and doing in context. Just fascinating and amazing how human beings are able to use the instincts, learning and abilities we have to do such things- and do them in a way where the extreme majority of it is done safely!
We had two bad experiences with Ryan air, both hard landings.
One in particular jarred my back causing me to cry out in pain.
The impression we had and still have of Ryan air is to get the aircraft down and on time at all costs.
We haven’t flown with them for several years now.
That would be correct. Hard landings reduce the chance of needing a go around and they do that because three go arounds within a certain time frame means Ryanair will force the pilot to go back to the simulators for retraining.
@@mikoto7693 You have no idea. Ryanair has a no blame policy on go arounds, you even get in trouble if you don´t perform a go aroun in certain cases
That last turn had me anxious for what I was about to see, could have easily been a stall spin at that point. Glad it turned out okay in the end! I agree, I think I would have gone for the cross wind runway in this situation and kept those last few turns much shallower, though these things are always easier to say with hindsight.
Or no runway at all. keep in mind that a field is often a possibility. The turn back to the departure runway after an engine failure is called "the impossible turn", because you will increase the already high angle of attack even further, often to the point of a stall.
He took a gamble to save the airplane lol. Your solution would have made you more likely to survive upside down in a destroyed plane :) (after it goes off the end of the runway and the nose gear collapses in the mud at 30 knots)
Neither answer is incorrect. It just depends on your priorities.
The whole situation made me nervous, after seeing those Air Safety Institute videos regarding engine out on climb outs and advising people to not 180 back to the airport
@@thevictoryoverhimself7298 Airplanes can be replaced, people can't. Those are some long runways and if speed or altitude needed to be lost a forward slip or flaps could have been deployed. Easy to loose the extra energy, not so easy to gain it back.
Agree though that neither answer is incorrect, as I said before - easier to comment/speculate with hindsight. The pilot here did a great job at keeping it all under control at those slow speeds close to stall.
@@JoshAntBrown Saving both the human and the airplane is worth a try :) Energy management is something not even all experienced pilots have. Some people who only play video games might have better instincts than a 30 years airline pilot. Its one of those athlete things :)
As an Aviation Fire Fighter when all goes wrong , you revert to your training . I think the same happened here with getting back on centre line even though it probably never mattered , but still Pilot Skills ;-)
I am learning to fly hang gliders, but find your analyses super applicable and helpful.
Be careful
Thrust reverse engaging at 200kts? Be careful with the glider when de-orbiting ;-)
That single engine plane with the engine problem, that was impressive. Especially that S-turn he makes to line up to the runway as he lands. Brilliant flying!
We used to use idle reverse on the Caravelle in the flare. It made for a very nice touchdown. The Caravelle wing was very clean and had little sweep, so it wanted to keep flying. We also deployed the speed brake throughout the approach on that aircraft. We used inboard engine reverse thrust in the air on the early DC-8's as a speed brake during descent occasionally, but it shook the airframe so much that it made pax nervous.
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ryanair charge for pre touchdown reverse thrust deployment.its about £10 per passenger, ....your baggage is a hundred yards before the threshold of the runway, usually in mrs jones tea shop lawn. she charges £1 per item recovery and 50p per day storage. .pot of tea is a very reasonable £10, extra £1 if you want it hot....happy flying folks.
I am NOT a commercial pilot - or even a general aviation pilot but I guess I've seen enough of your videos to have learned a few things... I know there was a LOT going on - and the pilot DID make a safe landing - but even I wondered why he did not get lined up and land on the strip that he overflew while not lined up. (As Kelsey pointed out. I caught that in real time - Thanks Kelsey!)
I wondered about that too...but I thought he had some other reason then when he said the same thing...I was like my instinct was right. Keep the blue side up⬆️.
We unfortunately don't know every other factor here but I can't tell if that runway would've been a better choice because he was in the middle of it and he definitely needed to make a sharp bank too (albeit not as sharp as the left one) but he probably wasn't confident about the remaining length of that runway so he might've overrun the runway
according to another commenter here the pilot said later he was so worried about hitting the trees that he lost track of when to turn
During my ppl training, I had a instructor who would pull the power at 200' agl on the climb out and then have me practice flying the airplane straight ahead to land. It wasn't until about 10' to 20' he would put the power back in and up we would go again. He would always "fail" the engine at the worst times to get me used to thinking ahead and having a plan in my head at all times. I always felt comfortable in my ability to handle an engine loss, but praise be God that I haven't had a real one yet.
@David Cole - sounds like a bleeping good instructor
@@lisanadinebaker5179 Yes indeed...as a young pilot he had suffered a real engine failure so being prepared was really important to him. Last time I heard from him he was flying business jets.
Checkout Baron Pilot Student Pilot's Worst Nightmare! - ACTUAL EMERGENCY - The Road To PIC Episode 3, His wife is working on her PPL.
Great instructor!
Many thanks Kelsey, the two scenarios are well discussed and learnt some new flying tactics as always. I like it!
Ooo! When he was saying the car example around 7:58, my family actually experienced that! We were on our way up a mountain for the holidays a few years back in a snow storm and were one of the last cars let up the mountain before they closed it. We were sitting in bumper to bumper traffic with the heat blowing and listening to music. Then the traffic started to move so we began to edge our way up when all of a sudden all our lights inside and outside the car started to flicker. It looked as if our car was being possessed. My dad, realizing something was very wrong, looked for a turn out and saw one on the opposite side of the rode. He turned the car into it (so now we’re facing down the mountain) when all the lights, breaks, and steering went out. My dad pulled the emergency break and we slid for a few feet before coming to a stop. Ended up stuck there for 15 hours overnight in the snow storm. The tow trucks couldn’t find our white car in the snow (and some were sent to try to come up the mountain without chains which was headache inducing) but the highway patrol knew we were there and checked on us a few times. Scarryist shit of my life. Ended up getting towed in the morning and found out our alternator blew. Our toe truck driver was very nice but had been working for 28 hours at that point trying to get all the people that were stranded. Apparently it was more than 50 cars that night. Also had Del Taco while they looked at the car and it was the best meal of my life. Scary at the time but a fun memory now. Anyhoo, his example made me remember that.
Hey Kelsey, there was a bad crash due to asymmetric thrust reversers in flight - a Boeing 767. It was Lauda Air 004 on 25 May 1991 and it's on Wikipedia.
Lauda Air flight 004 experienced an un-commanded reverse thruster fault 40 minutes after departing Bangkok. The flight came down in Northern Western Thailand. That was May 1991. No survivors.
Reward for insomnia in Australia, catching Kelsey ! xxx
As a 17 year old taking my first ever flight in 1970, just out of boot camp and flying to my duty station. I was amazed at how far I could see and spent the whole flight looking out my window. My seat was over the wing and I could see the engine clearly. Preparing to land I watched the houses get bigger as we got closer to the ground and I was wondering if that was usual procedure. Just when it seemed we were going to strike something the runway came streaking into view. I breathed a sigh of relief when suddenly the rear cover of the engine flew up like it was coming apart. I about had a heart attack! lol I only learned later it was just the air brakes deploying.
I felt that way during my first landing as a teenager when I became worried about the sounds of air brakes and the reversers coming online so the plane can be configured to land. Fortunately I had the presence of mind to look at the other passengers and the flight attendants and decide that whatever was happening, it was normal and I calmed down.
That happened to me too when I was about the same age. Looked out the window and the rear of the engine had lifted up exposing the engine. What a fright!
I went on my first airplane ride ever this year, Thanksgiving Eve. I don't know the model of planes I was on but the first one was an American Airlines plane about 1/3 to 1/2 the size of a 747. Then 2nd one was about 2/3 the size of the 1st.
The initial acceleration was exciting to me, but I'll admit that when they started clamping hard on the brakes after touchdown, my butt began to pucker a little.😁 I wasn't really afraid of flying but all your commentary and explanation of all the mechanics of how it all works, it made me even more at ease. Thanks Kelsey.
thanks kelsey! i enjoy ur vids. keep ‘em coming!
What you are missing is that it is Ryanair who guarantee slamming the plane into the runway in any weather condition. Applying reverse thrust before landing helps them achieve this goal.
Lol i was looking for something like this
"Ryan Air, soft landings would cost extra......."
Yup, SCUD Airways at it again!
Love this😂
Maybe to save on the number of times that they need to replace the brakes? Using reverse thrust every time instead 😅
On a take off engine out I was taught to not turn back to the airport. You need something like a 700-800 feet minimum before you could turn back to the airport. On a Cessna 152, engine out, you drop 500 feet in a 180 degree turn. The loop like turn is actually over 180 degree, so more then a 500 foot drop. Add another couple hundred of feet. Many who try without enough altitude stall it in trying to get back to airport.
-Kurt
Yes, I was taught the same. I suspect that white stuff visible on the ground may be a clue as to why this worked out for him. Climb performance is significantly better in the more dense air on a cold day. If this had been a hot and humid day instead, that turn may have ended very badly for him.
500 agl is too low for a power off turnback. Ok if some power left on. I practiced power on turnbacks EFATO from 400 agl in 1998. They work. and it is more than 180 if landing on the opposite runway.
There was actually a crash awhile back caused by an uncommanded thrust reverser deployment at altitude.
I don’t know about this version, but earlier versions of the 737 you have to have squat switch (weight on wheels) and the nose wheels spun up to minimum 70 knots before thrust reverse is available.
In the De Havilland Trident it was standard to open thrust reverse on the number two engine on final approach.
Another aspect not mentioned is there is two different "idle" modes, one in flight and one on the ground. When the 737 lands, there is only a couple seconds before it will switch to that ground idle mode, which is lower than in flight. So if you miss that window for deploying the reverses, it takes even longer for the engines to spool back up and provide power. So that's one reason that pilots are automatically looking to get them deployed ASAP the second they touchdown.
Not a big deal when reverse thrusters are not needed, but a very big deal when they are needed.
The pilot in your 2nd recap was *lucky* to have a good outcome. Turning back to the airport on takeoff due to engine trouble is often fatal. Wings level means greater lift. That guy either really knew his airplane, or he was incredibly lucky.
Impossible Turn
Quick thinking is definitely required in situations like this. As an instructor once told me, "never run out of altitude, airspeed and ideas all at the same time"
He was incredibly lucky. He knew his plane very well and was skilled flying it, but he was incredibly lucky.
there's a reason they call it the impossible turn
Yeah, I was about to comment the same. That's called the "impossible turn" for a reason. It usually isn't possible and instead results in crashing before reaching the field. Perhaps his plane had better climb performance than most light singles. Also, I suspect that the white stuff on the ground is also a hint at part of why he made it: climb performance is significantly better on cold days than on hot ones due to the more dense air. If he had tried that same maneuver on a hot and humid day, he might have ended up in those trees instead.
For light singles, I was always taught to find the least bad spot to land that is more or less in front of you if the engine quits after takeoff. You trade a whole lot of energy to make that 180 degree turn and you usually don't have that much to spare so soon after takeoff. That was one advantage of the airport where I did the early part of my flight training, though: it was on a 300-400' hill, so shortly after passing the departure end of the runway, you had an extra 300-400' of altitude to trade if needed. On the other hand, you really, really didn't want to land short there and the wind flowing down off of the hill into the valley below would pull you down a bit on short final (there was a 300-400' drop at both ends of the runway.)
I rang Ryan Air to book a ticket and the lady asked me how many people were flying with me.
I said, 'how am I supposed to know it's your airplane'
Since I haven't seen all your videos yet but have you or would you do some piloting your 747 for us? Would love to see you doing great take-offs and landings! And the 747 was always my favorite and I have flown in a few!!
Kelsey on the C-17 we do what's called a reverse idle tactical descent that allows us to drop altitude really fast. We do this for combat landing.
BOAC and BA used to use reverse in the descent. 707, 737, 1-11 and VC-10. They even made a PA to say we shouldn't be alarmed at the noise.
Probably needed to exit the runway at the nearest possible exit in order to avoid taxiing half across the airport. I experienced that on a Ryanair flight multiple times, I actually enjoy it as a passenger, because it can save you good 10-20 minutes when you cut the queue of all the planes waiting at the taxiways further down 😄And 20 minutes is Ryanair's standard turnaround time, so I suppose it makes a lot of sense for them too.
This is a 22 landing away from the terminal at STN. There is a rapid exit turn but two more options a bit further down. The difference in taxi time is literally one minute so not really an issue. The RET is more for the benefit of the airport to get aircraft off the runway ASAP so clearance can be given promptly to inbound traffic at peak arrival times.
Love your videos, Kelsey. Wanted to point out something obvious. There’s only one line on the runway where safety margins on left and right are the same. Great emergency landing, IMO. Yes, final bank to turn was too much but *he still heard stall warning*. Please consider doing video about pro pilots who still don’t hear loud, multiple warnings in their plane.
I watch planes from the very spot the Ryanair clip was filmed from weekly, it's a couple of miles from my farm. Looking at that clip, I have to be honest and say that's one of the better Ryanair landings I've seen. They're usually a much more violent and smoky affair... I'm sure if I look hard enough, I'll spot the arrestor hook one day 😆
To add to what Mentour Pilot mentioned, we use thrust reversers on clear days as well to reduced the brake cooling requirements in order to achieve short turnarounds.
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I spend way too much time on TH-cam and this is easily my favorite channel. Keep up the great work, my man!
Wow, he was very lucky. I was taught if the engine fails, to look for a field 30 degrees to the left or right and not to attempt to go back to the airport because in the vast majority of cases you don't have the enegry to make the 180 turn and get back to the runway.
AGL! He got away with it that time, but wow.
That pilot of that light aircraft did an amazing job , good piloting skills .
Hey there, I'm not a pilot, but I'm an ATCO, who was taught part of my ATCO theory by a Boeing pilot. The way he explained the thrust reverser logic in Boeing (or at least those types he was familiar with) is that you're able to deploy a thrust reverser as soon as your radioaltimeter altitude reaches
2:06 That right main gear had quite the "shimmy". Very dynamic time for all components involved.
I'll often deploy TR's 1-2 seconds before touchdown if I feel I'm coming in a little too hot. The TR's take about 1-2 seconds to actually become effective, and it doesn't have any negative consequence to do so. The pilot can sense if the aircraft has still too much lift to stall organically above the runway, so he forces a stall to get positive contact with the ground. This approach was really hectic with lots of lateral instability, and many pilots might have rejected. This guy was experienced and determined to get the equipment down and I respect that.
Michael O'Leary just called them up and told him they needed to land and taxi quicker for a faster turnaround.
When I saw a similar video of a Ryan Air plane landing on another channel I made a joke and was slammed for it, with the haters saying that Ryan Air lands at airports with incredibly short runways and horrible weather and I should be more informed. This is why the pilot deployed his reverse thrusters early-he's used to doing it all the time.
My oldest brother use to ferry planes to the new owners, before he became a Fed-Ex pilot.. He took off and while still low and over the runway the engine blew up just after he retracted the gear. When he told me the story, he said he did not have enough runway beneath him to push the plane back down to land, so he did an aileron roll to get all lift off the wings, and allow the plane to drop straight down. At the last moment he leveled the plane off, dropped the gear and landed on the remaining part of the runway and coasted into the grass between the runway and the taxiway. It was at this point he called the tower once the plane was on the grass and nothing but just a whisper came out.
I love how Kelsey’s so respectful in his reviews. Thanks for the explanation
A/G relays are one of the components who allows the T/R CVM to pressurise the actuators, but also if the R/A is less than 10ft then the logic still will energise the reverser deploy solenoid and then allow the actuators to extend then deploying the actual reverser
I woke up this morning with my own personal thrust reversers on, before I could get my wheels on the ground (but I'm just in lazy mode) - lol.
That Mooney pilot showed how the impossible turn is possible with the right combination of conditions. He was extremely well versed in flying a Mooney and Mooney's are as good as it gets at gliding in that class. It was nice and cold out and he knew the airport well.
Also, I think that was not the stall horn, but instead the gear horn, as he kept it up as long as possible, as it detected too low a manifold pressure.
Is the Mooney a constant speed propeller? Any idea why the pilot didn't feather the prop? (I've only flown 172s so I know zip about constant speed props)
@@JerryAsher Most Moonies have constant speed propellers, including the incident airplane. He was busy flying it to the ground. Feathering isn't going to do THAT much for you there
Any landing you walk away from is a good landing, even if it isn't an ideal landing.
I hate that saying so bad. Cause if the plane is totally destroyed and you walk away. Not a good landing. Or if all the passengers die and the pilot walk away, definitely not a good landing.
and a great landing is when they can use the airplane again :D
@@MrT------5743 a good landing means EVERYONE on the plane walks away. That's the pilots MAIN responsibility. The ideal landing is one where you can re-use the airplane without any repairs.
Addendum: planes can be replaced; people can not.
@@joelee2371 that is not how the stupid saying goes. It doesn't say 'everyone' it says 'you'. AND it doesn't say anything about planes can be replaced people can't. So all the animals dieing on the plane still makes it a good landing? How about everyone loses all their arms (they can still walk away). Is that a good landing? How about this so called good landing causes a fire and 100 homes burn down to the ground? This is how dumb this saying is.
I know it is just a dumb saying. But it is totally wrong. Walking away from a landing is not a measurement of if it was a good landing. It's such a stupid saying and it's not even a little bit funny.
Love the little animations. I’ve not seen them in your videos before. It’s nice :)
I have heard that some military aircraft can allow this and has been used to effect a vey steep nose down descent into some airfields where they dont want to run up a load of speed in the hard descent. This is done whilst very high though. Not whist landing. I think I even saw a video on it. Not something commercial will ever want to do because that severe nose down attitude freaks out your passengers. We used to use hard rudder right or left and nose down hard to drop out of the sky quickly quite a lot on microlights because it gives you safety to come in high and makes sure you always get to the field incase of an engine issue... nothing worse in single engine microlights than a flat low approach on a short field if you lose your only engine.
I’ve always heard negative things about Ryanair. It’s a hard pass for me.
Great video Kelsey!
hearing negative things is fine as long as tickets are cheaper than busses or any other alternatives.
as a ryanair regular, it's not actually nearly as bad as portrayed by some.
I've always heard negative things about Ryanair too.
Also, I've flown with them almost 100 times and my experience has never been bad. To this day idk where all that hate is coming from 🤷🏻♀️
Actually from a pilot point of view FYR pilots are preety danm good.
I fly for another airline. When I hear my FO is ex Ryanair Im a lot more confident in them than if I hear they are ex military or some other airlines.
I have heard negative things too, but I only fly ryanair, like its the only airline I use... and ive never had a bad experience...
That second pilot, what an incredible save. He didn't even have to jump out and pull the parachute he was obviously wearing.
I really doubt he had a parachute and he was way too low to use one safely if he was.
I see what you did there. :)
@@millimetreperfect it's a joke based on a recent youtuber stunt
For Ryanair, this is not really a big mistake; It's their normal routine.
Yes! There are dozens of bad Ryanair landings videos out there. They are well known and made fun of for it!
Their safety record say's everyone who's ever flown with them has always walked off, not many other "butter landing" carrier's in that club.
@@PCG1970 It's a 737 "feature". Even the A380 has softer landings than a 737-XXX has. I've been on other airlines who use the 737 (last month on Singapore Airlines), and they also had hard landings.
@@Luton-Mick Well any landing you can walk away from is a good one :)
@@judebrad A pilot once told me that a 737 can be difficult to land smoothly and it can take months or years to get the knack of it properly.
Kelsey’s proud dad moment at 10:39 was priceless! Well done! My flight just landed in Tijuana and it was really windy. Pilot did a crab landing it was awesome! First thing I did was watch 74 gear when I landed lol!!
Chris
Incredible! This is the smoothest Ryanair landing ever captured on video.
This is Dublin on a stormy day, may i remind everyone that Ryanair have never actually had s fatal accident
Pilot about to do a go-around: I got 99 problems but thrust reversers deployed in flight ain't one
*Thrust reversers deploy in flight*
Pilot: 100. I got 100 problems.
A 737 max is designed to be able to deploy reverse thrust a few feet from the ground
That may have been a big mistake, but not his biggest. That would be taking a job with Ryanair.
You’d be surprised. There are plenty of ex Legacy pilots now happily flying with Ryanair. Any airline can have firm touchdown- it’s not unique to Ryanair.
What you said about lining up on a runway with that little prop was a really good point that didn’t immediately occur to me. An aircraft in a 3° bank is much much less likely to drop a wing during a stall than one in a 30° bank. You really don’t want to be turning on a dime with an engine out, or you could end up sliding across an airport on your back after a nasty asymmetric stall.
I saw my first Dreamliner yesterday when it flew right over my apartment and it was SO cool!! I love the smooth sound of those engines. I live right in the flight path of SeaTac now, I love it.