the way Ryan is so confident and willing to tell people what he knows when he is the smart guy on the show, but then be so humble to listen and learn when someone more experienced is on, is great. some men could learn from him.
Perfect!!! As a diehard Bowhunter for a long time, I’ve been getting back into shooting log guns again…A ton of information from your PodCast and TH-cam have helped me catch back up! Great job boys…👊🏻🇺🇸
I got so wrapped up in watching the video in the stand, I missed a good opportunity for the first buck of the year. Pretty sure I just experienced some that shooter error no one wants to talk about haha.
To me, these discussions really exemplify how shooting is a near perfect blend of art and science. I really enjoy listening to Mr Quinlan discuss the physics behind the ammo (I highly recommend listening to the Hornady podcast) but it also leaves me feeling like it’s a minor miracle that any gun can group at all, which is where the art of shooting takes over. There are so many variables that can affect your accuracy, it’s beyond important to narrow them down to what you can control (i.e., the fundamentals of marksmanship).
You guys are all awesome! I love the super technical shows. This type of science and math is both soothing and inspirational for me. Please keep these coming.
I love that Mark has to qualify everything he says either for or against. He has played with so much indecision that when he finally pick one, everyone believes that he is against the other. Give him a break people. Mark’s opinions matter.
100% agree. Mark is always treated as a punching bag stick to your decision. Mark have your own thoughts and justification and don’t let anybody sway you just for the sake of them, trying to pull you to their side
After trying several muzzleloader bullets I've settled on the bore driver ELDX myself. The bore driver FTX did very well accuracy wise just dropped more over same distance.
Gosh I love these videos. How you guys have such a great podcast is a mystery to me but you guys are as liked as fortnine is in my motorcycle life. Creative, informative, and fun. Keep on rocking it.
Ryan every time these talks happen someone brings up the 7 mag and I have a few in 7mm 28 nosler , 7mag , 7prc and can honestly say in the hunting world the 28 handles it all. The idea that yall are coming across with if everyone hunts with 190’s they don’t. I load the very best I can for every cartridge I have the 7 beats the prc I can’t understand why the selective information. Good information on the stability. Thanks
Would love to hear their take on how spin rate affects penetration and tissue damage. Penetration should be less due to the bullet opening faster but would also expect the "blending affect" to cause more tissue damage. Question is - besides from i could be completely wrong - is are these affects small or big?
Think the 8.6 blackout was being carefully referred to as the slow velocity high twisted round and it makes sense why it needs to be spun so fast to expand after hearing this.
Perfect timing!!! I’ve been wanting and looking seriously for a lever action 45-70 for the past few months. I’d be interested in shooting mainly the heavy subsonic loads and rarely some full power bear loads. I’ve noticed the Marlin 1895 and Henry model X both have 1:20 twist barrels, whereas the Rossi R95 has a 1:12 twist!
Well , I have shot and handloaded 45-70s for nearly 40 years .It is one of my all time favorite rounds! I have shot everything from hot 300g Copper Jacket Hollowpoint smokless loads in levers and Single shots to LOOONG 540g hand cast Tin Lead Black Powder Catrdge Match loads(fun). The fastest twist Barrels for the 500g +++ Match BPCR slugs were 1-16 (but most were 1-18). The average Lever and Single Shots had 1-20" and 1-22". One thing is that due to OAL constraints, most lever guns cannot shoot bullets much heavier than 400g anyway. I think that Rossi twist rate is TOO FAST. . SOME ADVICE- GET A RUGER MADE MARLIN!. Both the gun and the twist rate are spot on! Good luck!
Another thing with the transonic area is at the extreme end of long range shooting you can see the projectiles bc change during flight. Difference from intial flight to 2000 yrds can be substantial. This is not something most people ever need to know much less have the equipment to measure lol
😂 watching this podcast was like watching a 60 minutes episode where there is a question that is obviously avoided. The topic was spin and hornady just launched a .338 arc a caliber that is playing in the same field as the fastest spun bullet in aware of regularly 8.6. Its hilarious that it never entered the chat as while talking about extreme spin its the fastest. As well I know Ryan loves .338 fed, I would have thought a discussion of the merits of the 3 or just differences would have been a logical path for a discussion on spin and stability while also being timely due to the recent hornady marketing push/launch. .338 cal was the elephant in the room not discussed and it just struck me as an odd ommission since we now have .338 arc, .338 specter, .338 ridgeback, .338 federal, 8.6 black, .338-06, and several others on the magnum end pushing wildly different velocities for different purposes 😂
This is all marketing after all. Hornady squashed the SAAMI application for 8.6 Blackout in January. Now in October they’ve just introduced an “AR-15 compatible” .338 cartridge with a 1:8 twist rate (vs. 1:3 or 1:5 for 8.6 BO). I put AR-15 compatible in quotation marks because you need a new bolt, if not entire BCG, and you are going to have to tune the gas/buffer system. I love all of the “just swap the barrel on your 6 ARC upper” comments as if we all have one just lying around. Personally I think the 338 ARC is a cartridge limited to subsonic applications and in no rational way superior to 8.6 Blackout.
@chipsterb4946 ya 8.6 has had my attention since I can use my 6.5 brass to push supersonic loads and get good effect. Where am I going to get arc brass? From the manufacturer and its going to be over $1 a piece for just the brass. There are a plethora of guys shooting hornady precision hunter ammo at the gun ranges her in 6.5 creed. I'm sure if I offer them $10 for once fired brass they would be thrilled since its normally just going in the trash.
All these new calibers , PRC , ARC and so on. All good if you want that , most hunters shoot under 300 yards… I love that I am using all the old school calibers that are up to 70 years old being my 308 & 300 win mag because they just work, that’s cool.
I encourage you Vortex boys to take a basic Physics course built around ballistic equations. It opened Physics in general up for me. I’ve been shooting since I was 6, so that’s 62 years. Ballistic equations opened my eyes and blew my mind.
I hope I haven't made a mistake in twisting my .22 cal center fire rifles to fast (222 rem 223 rem 22-250 rem an 220 swift). I had 1x9 twist barrels put on. Mostly shooting 55 gr bullets. Any thoughts on the caliber per twist at 21 minutes in this video?
You are probably fine. It's not excessively fast (a 1:8 twist will shoot 55 gr just fine), and you can probably move up to nearly 70gr bullets (depending on your elevation mostly). If you haven't noticed any excessive dispersion and haven't noticed bullets disintegrating, then you're likely good to go.
Question. Where can I get Ballestician education from? SDI will offer only that class. They want me to do an entire gun smithing class that I am not interested in.
I was hoping to hear some direct conversation about the 338 and 8.6 and all the…spin….that both companies have put out about the respective calibers. Both of which no one asked for, and neither of which will see high use, despite Kevin Brittingham running around Africa putting three or four bullets into Cape Buffalo and yelling, “look! I did it!”
Helicopter blade!! Slower at the Helicopter than tip of the blade... 30 cal bullt on the surface is like tip of a much bigger blade spinning vs a tiny 22 cal chopper blade spinning... if the blade was layed out diameter of the bullet... Helps me anyway... for barrel twist
I’m the only person in my family that gives a damn about this topic and I’m digging it deeply! I’m a nerd. This is basic Physics. It’s like candy to my inner nerdly wild child!
For some reason lead bullets are much better stable than copper bullets. Berger has a great stable calculator if anyone is looking for a calculator. It will save you time, headaches and money.
Best video yet, by far. Could I please have Jayden’s email, have some 243 ai and sub sonic questions. From Australia and subs is a very Left field topic, very keen. Been shooting for 35 years, love the content. I’m old school but 300 blackout etc makes you think about hunting options and techniques
Learn from a shotgun. Is it the size of the whole, or the release of energy? Think football. Head on collision with a wide receiver or a lineman running at full speed. Both knock the player on their back. Resistance to the energy released. A .223 impacting at 4000fps will not hit as hard as a 1.5 Oz slug at 1000fps. Rifle twist decreases as it travels down range. Gravity eventually takes that spin and opens the revolution. The faster the projectile gets to the target. The less Gravity effects accuracy. The faster the spin. The smaller revolution has around the flight path. Like a Jewish top The faster it spins, the more stable and longer it remains in balance.
I love your guys information, but absolutely hate that it takes 10 minutes or more to get to the meat of the subject at hand. I hope you see this as constructive and not a general complaint.
I watch videos like this to learn technical information from the guest. But I cannot tolerate the vortex videos because the hosts dominate with mindless blather and waste my time. And there is a trickle down effect from that. Can you guess what it is?
@@ExtremeUnction1988 I stand corrected. I should have researched that more. Thanks! I misled myself with my admittedly poor knowledge of the periodic table.
@@roadkill11000bullet construction tends to go this way, aluminum (such as with 7.92x40 CETME), Steel, copper, lead, tungsten, depleted uranium from lightest to heaviest.... So with the original 7.92x40 CETME cartridge, the new 6.8x51 EPR is basically the same bullet design the Spanish were working on for a 1000 meter full auto machine gun but with a steel core rather than aluminum. The downrange energy will be higher because it is denser and will have a better BC because steel is heavier than aluminum even when fired at the same muzzle velocity. The new 6.8x51 EPR in the NGSW is basically resurrecting a design from six or seven decades ago and making it applicable to modern technology
Question. Where can I get Ballestician education from? SDI will offer only that class. They want me to do an entire gun smithing class that I am not interested in.
the way Ryan is so confident and willing to tell people what he knows when he is the smart guy on the show, but then be so humble to listen and learn when someone more experienced is on, is great. some men could learn from him.
Great podcast! Anytime Jayden is sharing his knowledge I will listen. Thanks
Vortex Nation is my favorite TH-cam channel. I’ve learned so much from this channel.
I love the Vortex podcast and the Hornady podcast as well. I wish you guys did more collaborations like this with your cartridge talks!
Great video yall, thanks Jayden for all you do!!
Yep, gonna have to listen to this one several times. Love this stuff!!
Perfect!!! As a diehard Bowhunter for a long time, I’ve been getting back into shooting log guns again…A ton of information from your PodCast and TH-cam have helped me catch back up! Great job boys…👊🏻🇺🇸
What an excellent informative podcast. Well done gentlemen.
A very great blending of my 2 favorite podcasts. I always watch both Vortex and Hornady pages.
I got so wrapped up in watching the video in the stand, I missed a good opportunity for the first buck of the year. Pretty sure I just experienced some that shooter error no one wants to talk about haha.
Great podcast Jayden knows his stuff one interesting man and informative i really enjoyed this great show guys well done..
To me, these discussions really exemplify how shooting is a near perfect blend of art and science. I really enjoy listening to Mr Quinlan discuss the physics behind the ammo (I highly recommend listening to the Hornady podcast) but it also leaves me feeling like it’s a minor miracle that any gun can group at all, which is where the art of shooting takes over. There are so many variables that can affect your accuracy, it’s beyond important to narrow them down to what you can control (i.e., the fundamentals of marksmanship).
Jayden is always a wealth of balistic info.
Well done. I needed a refresher Master Class in Exterior Ballistics. There is much to unpack here.
You guys are all awesome! I love the super technical shows. This type of science and math is both soothing and inspirational for me. Please keep these coming.
Great podcast Gentlemen. Always happy to watch all three of you guys.
I love that Mark has to qualify everything he says either for or against. He has played with so much indecision that when he finally pick one, everyone believes that he is against the other. Give him a break people. Mark’s opinions matter.
100% agree. Mark is always treated as a punching bag stick to your decision. Mark have your own thoughts and justification and don’t let anybody sway you just for the sake of them, trying to pull you to their side
After trying several muzzleloader bullets I've settled on the bore driver ELDX myself. The bore driver FTX did very well accuracy wise just dropped more over same distance.
Great collaboration my two favorite podcasts join together for one episode! You guys brought us what we all needed but didn’t know we wanted!🙌
Great topic, everything comes down to physics in this space.
I love the cross over podcasts.
The only person I enjoy listening to at Hornady
Gosh I love these videos. How you guys have such a great podcast is a mystery to me but you guys are as liked as fortnine is in my motorcycle life. Creative, informative, and fun. Keep on rocking it.
Ryan every time these talks happen someone brings up the 7 mag and I have a few in 7mm 28 nosler , 7mag , 7prc and can honestly say in the hunting world the 28 handles it all. The idea that yall are coming across with if everyone hunts with 190’s they don’t. I load the very best I can for every cartridge I have the 7 beats the prc I can’t understand why the selective information. Good information on the stability. Thanks
Would love to hear their take on how spin rate affects penetration and tissue damage. Penetration should be less due to the bullet opening faster but would also expect the "blending affect" to cause more tissue damage. Question is - besides from i could be completely wrong - is are these affects small or big?
Think the 8.6 blackout was being carefully referred to as the slow velocity high twisted round and it makes sense why it needs to be spun so fast to expand after hearing this.
Why aren't we making angled lands in barrels? Wouldn't this help accuracy?
Perfect timing!!! I’ve been wanting and looking seriously for a lever action 45-70 for the past few months. I’d be interested in shooting mainly the heavy subsonic loads and rarely some full power bear loads. I’ve noticed the Marlin 1895 and Henry model X both have 1:20 twist barrels, whereas the Rossi R95 has a 1:12 twist!
Does anyone have an opinion on which would be best for my application?
Well , I have shot and handloaded 45-70s for nearly 40 years .It is one of my all time favorite rounds! I have shot everything from hot 300g Copper Jacket Hollowpoint smokless loads in levers and Single shots to LOOONG 540g hand cast Tin Lead Black Powder Catrdge Match loads(fun). The fastest twist Barrels for the 500g +++ Match BPCR slugs were 1-16 (but most were 1-18). The average Lever and Single Shots had 1-20" and 1-22". One thing is that due to OAL constraints, most lever guns cannot shoot bullets much heavier than 400g anyway. I think that Rossi twist rate is TOO FAST. . SOME ADVICE- GET A RUGER MADE MARLIN!. Both the gun and the twist rate are spot on! Good luck!
great job guys!
Another thing with the transonic area is at the extreme end of long range shooting you can see the projectiles bc change during flight. Difference from intial flight to 2000 yrds can be substantial. This is not something most people ever need to know much less have the equipment to measure lol
Best balastition in the world "i m not good at math"
I want that 7.5x55swiss cartridge talk man it's such a good cartridge
😂 watching this podcast was like watching a 60 minutes episode where there is a question that is obviously avoided. The topic was spin and hornady just launched a .338 arc a caliber that is playing in the same field as the fastest spun bullet in aware of regularly 8.6. Its hilarious that it never entered the chat as while talking about extreme spin its the fastest. As well I know Ryan loves .338 fed, I would have thought a discussion of the merits of the 3 or just differences would have been a logical path for a discussion on spin and stability while also being timely due to the recent hornady marketing push/launch. .338 cal was the elephant in the room not discussed and it just struck me as an odd ommission since we now have .338 arc, .338 specter, .338 ridgeback, .338 federal, 8.6 black, .338-06, and several others on the magnum end pushing wildly different velocities for different purposes 😂
I was thinking the same thing haha
This is all marketing after all. Hornady squashed the SAAMI application for 8.6 Blackout in January. Now in October they’ve just introduced an “AR-15 compatible” .338 cartridge with a 1:8 twist rate (vs. 1:3 or 1:5 for 8.6 BO). I put AR-15 compatible in quotation marks because you need a new bolt, if not entire BCG, and you are going to have to tune the gas/buffer system. I love all of the “just swap the barrel on your 6 ARC upper” comments as if we all have one just lying around.
Personally I think the 338 ARC is a cartridge limited to subsonic applications and in no rational way superior to 8.6 Blackout.
@chipsterb4946 ya 8.6 has had my attention since I can use my 6.5 brass to push supersonic loads and get good effect. Where am I going to get arc brass? From the manufacturer and its going to be over $1 a piece for just the brass. There are a plethora of guys shooting hornady precision hunter ammo at the gun ranges her in 6.5 creed. I'm sure if I offer them $10 for once fired brass they would be thrilled since its normally just going in the trash.
Wow. I thought 3 d issues, up, down, l eft, right, forward, back, then Jayden adds string theory, worm holes and flux capacitors. I’m impressed
All these new calibers , PRC , ARC and so on. All good if you want that , most hunters shoot under 300 yards… I love that I am using all the old school calibers that are up to 70 years old being my 308 & 300 win mag because they just work, that’s cool.
I encourage you Vortex boys to take a basic Physics course built around ballistic equations. It opened Physics in general up for me. I’ve been shooting since I was 6, so that’s 62 years. Ballistic equations opened my eyes and blew my mind.
I hope I haven't made a mistake in twisting my .22 cal center fire rifles to fast (222 rem 223 rem 22-250 rem an 220 swift). I had 1x9 twist barrels put on. Mostly shooting 55 gr bullets. Any thoughts on the caliber per twist at 21 minutes in this video?
You are probably fine. It's not excessively fast (a 1:8 twist will shoot 55 gr just fine), and you can probably move up to nearly 70gr bullets (depending on your elevation mostly). If you haven't noticed any excessive dispersion and haven't noticed bullets disintegrating, then you're likely good to go.
If you watch High Speed Ballistics videos, you can see how every rifle round seems to be angled down but traveling straight.
Love every episode! Would you do an episode on remington 700 vs bergara b14?!
1:00:00 if you are here about the 8.6 blackout :)
Jayden, would a monolithic bullet have less of a center of gravity discrepancy than a precision mixed metal just by default?
21:50 they almost all need the diamater too, like the berger calculator asks for diamter and twist and MV for the stability check.
I would be interested in his comments on how rifling twist rates affect chamber pressures.
This man IS JOYCE H...
Is that Jason Alexander on the back wall? Why?
Question. Where can I get Ballestician education from? SDI will offer only that class. They want me to do an entire gun smithing class that I am not interested in.
I was hoping to hear some direct conversation about the 338 and 8.6 and all the…spin….that both companies have put out about the respective calibers. Both of which no one asked for, and neither of which will see high use, despite Kevin Brittingham running around Africa putting three or four bullets into Cape Buffalo and yelling, “look! I did it!”
LMFAO
👨🏫 JADEN DID A WONDERFUL JOB OF HIS EXPLINATIONS, BUT I WOULD LIKE HIM TO GO FURTHER INTO THE ACTUAL EQUATIONS/MATH, THROUGH REAL LIFE EXAMPLES! 🕵♂️
Helicopter blade!! Slower at the Helicopter than tip of the blade...
30 cal bullt on the surface is like tip of a much bigger blade spinning vs a tiny 22 cal chopper blade spinning... if the blade was layed out diameter of the bullet...
Helps me anyway... for barrel twist
I’m the only person in my family that gives a damn about this topic and I’m digging it deeply! I’m a nerd. This is basic Physics. It’s like candy to my inner nerdly wild child!
Wouldn’t a CX not be more stable because it’s perfect.y balanced?
For some reason lead bullets are much better stable than copper bullets. Berger has a great stable calculator if anyone is looking for a calculator. It will save you time, headaches and money.
Best video yet, by far. Could I please have Jayden’s email, have some 243 ai and sub sonic questions. From Australia and subs is a very
Left field topic, very keen. Been shooting for 35 years, love the content. I’m old school but 300 blackout etc makes you think about hunting options and techniques
Howdy
Learn from a shotgun. Is it the size of the whole, or the release of energy? Think football. Head on collision with a wide receiver or a lineman running at full speed. Both knock the player on their back. Resistance to the energy released. A .223 impacting at 4000fps will not hit as hard as a 1.5 Oz slug at 1000fps. Rifle twist decreases as it travels down range. Gravity eventually takes that spin and opens the revolution. The faster the projectile gets to the target. The less Gravity effects accuracy. The faster the spin. The smaller revolution has around the flight path. Like a Jewish top
The faster it spins, the more stable and longer it remains in balance.
I love your guys information, but absolutely hate that it takes 10 minutes or more to get to the meat of the subject at hand. I hope you see this as constructive and not a general complaint.
I watch videos like this to learn technical information from the guest. But I cannot tolerate the vortex videos because the hosts dominate with mindless blather and waste my time. And there is a trickle down effect from that. Can you guess what it is?
just a heads up - tungsten is not denser than lead
Tungsten is indeed denser than lead.
@@ExtremeUnction1988 I stand corrected. I should have researched that more. Thanks! I misled myself with my admittedly poor knowledge of the periodic table.
@@roadkill11000bullet construction tends to go this way, aluminum (such as with 7.92x40 CETME), Steel, copper, lead, tungsten, depleted uranium from lightest to heaviest....
So with the original 7.92x40 CETME cartridge, the new 6.8x51 EPR is basically the same bullet design the Spanish were working on for a 1000 meter full auto machine gun but with a steel core rather than aluminum.
The downrange energy will be higher because it is denser and will have a better BC because steel is heavier than aluminum even when fired at the same muzzle velocity.
The new 6.8x51 EPR in the NGSW is basically resurrecting a design from six or seven decades ago and making it applicable to modern technology
@@roadkill11000 it happens 😄👍
@@ExtremeUnction1988 Truth! Still a good reminder to stay humble lest the things you say come back to bite you! 🤐
Question. Where can I get Ballestician education from? SDI will offer only that class. They want me to do an entire gun smithing class that I am not interested in.