The History and Development of the 5"/38 - Turns out you can take the sky from someone
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ค. 2023
- Today we take a look at the history that led to the development of the ubiquitous 5"/38, as found on almost every USN ship of WW2, and a few others besides!
Sources:
www.eugeneleeslover.com/US-NA...
eugeneleeslover.com/ENGINEERI...
"The American 5inch/38 Dual Purpose Gun" - Warship Volume II
www.amazon.co.uk/U-S-Destroye...
Naval History books, use code 'DRACH' for 25% off - www.usni.org/press/books?f%5B...
Free naval photos and channel posters - www.drachinifel.co.uk
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Music - • Video
Pinned post for Q&A :)
Rapid fire 5in barrel life.
Do smaller guns have better life than battleship size rifles? Much better life?
Are these smaller barrels easier/cheaper/faster to change liners?
What is your Opinion on Austro - Hungarian Navy Strategy at the Beginning of WW1, so were their Goals, Tactics and Doctrine sound and they just never got the Chance to use them, or was the Stalemate and Blockade the best possible Outcome in Retrospect.
A lot of the smaller caliber naval guns use integral cartridges rather than separate projectiles and powder canisters or bags. Were integral cartridge designs ever investigated for large caliber guns, say, in excess of 12 inches? Aside from needing then to eject spent casings, and then to put them somewhere, what might be some other design or operational challenges that made such systems infeasible?
How much of the 5"/38 success do you think is attributable to the proximity fuse? And if the proximity fuse had not been available, would a mass quantity of 40mm have provided better protection than the 5 inch?
How’s the Australian tour looking?
Drachism of the day: "With a few tweaks to the design and one large hacksaw applied to a helpless Mk.9 5"/51 caliber gun later, a prototype 5"/38 caliber gun had been created"
I also love the Firefly reference in the video title.
So it's basically just a Jewish 5-inch/51.
@@TonboIV A circumcision joke!
l'chayim!
It is a variation of the Jeremy Clarkson Hammer Method of repair.
Oy vey!
I just love the near-comical realization of the simple: "Hey, we want something that does what this long anti-surface gun does *and* what this short anti-air gun does. What if we made a gun that was partway *between* those two and tried it at both?"
I think that the best thing to make a god-tier design team is a steady supply of booze. Just see what the drunk guys can come up with.
Two most dangerous things that must be kept away from engineers at all times:
1- welding machines to make things bigger
2- hacksaws to make things smaller
@@ricardokowalski1579 As an old maintenance man I approve this message!
@@korbell1089 😁👍😁
@@RT-rx2sj So KelTec, but good?
Nice research and humor. I served on a Fletcher an a couple Sumners. One doing gunfire support in Vietnam. I also served on various riverine boats and got to see the 5"x38 shooting from both ends. Sometimes, depending on the map accuracy, the first round would be within 10' of the target and sometimes would hit with the first round. Rarely did it take more than a few rounds to destroy the target. I read Japanese Destroyer Captain by Hara, a destroyer captain thru most of the war. In his book, Hara stated in actions with US destroyers, his ship was usually straddled by the first US salvo. A good book from the Japanese viewpoint.
The 5" concussion was tough on destroyers. Florescent lights would often be hanging from their wiring, one deck below the mount, after a heavy firing mission. We had a large ventilation fan and ducting fall down in a passageway, and fire hoses flung from their racks. Sometimes the bridge radar repeaters would go offline because of damaged vacuum tubes.
Maps in Vietnam were based on early French surveys and some with later Japanese updates. Until the army made new surveys, some landmarks could be 3-5 miles off. In a remote area on a boat down in the river channel with heavy jungle all around, I'd call for artillery and never hear the round land.Thanks!
Thanks for the memories.
Which Sumner ships were you on? I did my first 2 week training cruse on English DD-696 and still have a warm fuzzy feeling about that ship.
My uncle was on the USS Braine in Vietnam. My other uncle, his twin, was stationed on Midway and a firefighter on the crash crew. Thank you all for serving! ❤❤
The USS South Dakota knocked herself out of the 2nd Battle of Guadalcanal when it fired its 16" guns after the Chief Engineer locked down a circuit breaker. Downside to electrically powered turrets, no electrical power, no guns. That plus some seriously dumb tactical maneuvering during the battle.
Not sure of you're meaning on the riverine boat but if it had a 5"/38 that was a beast at close range. No doubt the cocussion effects inside anything less than a cruiser.
After reading "The Rivers Ran East" by former WWII Col. Leonard Clark, going down an Amazon tributary that had never been passed through live by ethnic Europeans, I can not believe that any large tropical river could have a map that could be used for accurate artillery fire. Old oxbow lakes and river meanders are a testament of very active river bank movement. In Clark's case it was almost fatal to passangers and crew of a large power boat.
"Turns out you can take the sky from someone."
Nice 'Firefly' reference there, Drach!
Oh, a Firefly reference! Shiny! (Thank you for the video, I missed the development history videos.)
Yeah, but can they boil the sea?
@@blindleader42 only indirectly, when their natural prey comes to rest
@@blindleader42 We napalm, we had the "burn the land" part down okay.
@@blindleader42 That's why the Navy developed nuclear depth charges.
I caught that instantly. I like Castle and The Rookie too
The 5”/54 Mk 45 was actually up scaled again to become the Mk 45 Mod 4, which is the 5”/62 that is on the newer Arleigh Burke class destroyers.
upscaled yet stripped off the always failing and heavy auto loading system
The Mexician Navy had a Gearing in commission until 2014 so yeah, a fairly long lived gun.
This is my favorite type of video.
Tracking one significant technology from start to finish.
Yeah Drach seems like the reincarnation of Ernest King,, well except Drach is a solid expert WITHOUT being a total azzhole...
"What is it with the US Navy and sextuple on outlandish designs" Thanks Drach, I was in stitches with that one! 😂😂
Clearly, the US navy likes having round numbers, and 6 is 2 times 3, it's two other favorite numbers.
Who said that one Tillman battleship with the 4 6x16" turrets was outlandish? (No one today, anyway.) Now, if it was 4 6x18" turrets, that would have been outlandish.
Navy supply read “ cheaper by the dozen “ and took it seriously .
Two launcher mounts, six fish each side jj=12….
Unit of issue DOZ!
A throwback to the venerable six-shooter?
@@ChrisCaramia Who knows, maybe it's just America and their philosophy of more gun is better gun
12 episodes and one movie and FIREFLY has become legend
Brings back memories. I was a Gunner's Mate in the late 70's. When I went to gun school the instructors kept singing about what a great weapon the 5"/38 was. When I got to the fleet there were still a few Gearings in service. As a life long WW2 buff, I thought I was in heaven.
Per my training, "The 5"/38, the gun that won World War 2." Thanks for the memories Drach.
In some ways, Congress imposed budget restraints worked in the USN's favor as they resisted the temptation to change gun caliber everytime someone else was put in charge. The Royal Navy might have benefitted from having a bit more discipline as they dithered in adapting a single shell diameter and worked on multiple ones, sometimes in parallel. One was forced to be satisfied with good enough while the other sought the elusive perfect solution and wasted time and resources while complicating their logistics.
'Amateurs talk statistics, professionals talk logistics.'
Seen that one a lot.
British "logistical issues" and "complication of supply chains" are massively overstated non-issues, which a tiny country with an excellent road & railway network, well-versed in bureaucracy and faced with an urgent and sudden war situation, just sort of *dealt* with.
A super-important point to remember about the British war experience is that, not only was the state used to dealing with a multiplicity of types when it came to war materiel, but whichever choice it *might* have decided to standardise on, not one of them were available in anything like sufficient numbers to meet demand for the first half of the war.
The British 'war cocktail' was mixed with a fair number of decidedly sub-par ingredients, alongside the quality ones which made it tasty, but there just wasn't enough of the good stuff to fill the shaker.
It's a damn good thing the UK was as used to a complex supply chain as it was, because when it came to crunch it *had* to be.
As a US Navy Photographer's Mate, I got to spend much time on deck during gunfire exercises. I truly hated the metallic nad squeezing krang of the 5" 38s. I much preferred the monstrous time stopping blast of our 16" 50s. The use of a motor drive made stopping a round in mid flight easier. The 5" rounds were much faster and harder to catch although I did get a few leaving the barrel. The big guns are much more obliging, once the bullet cleared the muzzle blast.
From my experience, large artillery goes BOOM !, smaller artillery pieces go CRAAACK !
@@ROBERTN-ut2il I vaguely recall reading somewhere that when a 16" fires nearby, it feels like getting run over by a truck covered in pillows. But a 5" feels like getting smacked by a plank.
let's call that bullet by its real name, fella..... projectile!!!
5"/54's have a nasty crack to them.
@@littlerascal2753 metal nub
The three 5in guns and the bureau of ordinance
Bureau of ordinance wanted for a 5in gun.
The 5/51 was too heavy. The 5/25 was too weak. But the 5/38 was "just right".
The end 🎭
Ammolocks and the Three Barrels.
Current Congress: Where can we send billions more? We have a big charge card.
@@rogersmith7396 My constituents demand another multi-billion dollar boondoggle, er, multi-purpose fighter!
ricardo k....... Almost makes up for the Mk 14 debacle. Sorta.
@@ChrisCaramia B 21, Zumwalt class. How to make huge amounts of cash float and fly. Just not very well.
I can't tell you how much joy it brings me to see how many commenters recognized the Firefly reference!
They never should have canceled FF
One of the strangest engagements utilizing a 5"/38 was against an errant Talos missile that failed to rise into its guidance beam and was dancing about the sky off the port beam of the ship totally out of control. Mount 52 with its Marine detachment mount crew was slewing madly attempting to end the performance without effect. A strange day during my career aboard that ship. The 5"/38 mounts on the ship were in service until the ship's decommissioning in 1994.
USS Long Beach?
lol "LEFT!!!!" - seriously though . . . it might have come down to that :-p Great story!
@@Idahoguy10157 I though Long Beach had the later, longer weapon? I could be wrong.
@@AndrewGivens … the pics I remember were with two 5”/38 single mounts
What ship are you referring to?
The last shipboard Talos was fired in 1979.
The Carter Administration wanted it killed off, and he got what he wanted, along with our most powerful and world famous CG's being sent to the breakers.
Thanks Drach.
Nice to hear the correct music again.
Someone in the US Bureau of Ordnance had a flash of brilliance, pity they never had the same for the torpedoes.
The old MK14 actually did a pretty good job after they "ironed the bugs out". In 1970, subs were still equipped with MK14's. If it got close enough it could make a really big mess of a target. I was on a Sub Tender (AS-36) and we still serviced them. It was interesting to read their record books from WW2. They showed where they had been throughout their lives and who had worked on them.
He mentioned this was the group before that group.
The torpedo group who should have been shot. Completely stupid incompetent except ass kissing and very lucky they were not tried and shot.
Basic cover your ass they would have sent and retained copies of their informing congress they had not received the funds to properly test them instead locking themselves into a lie that they worked that the stuck to for so long.
I assume there was political pressure to approve them to be built so they approved them but blew standard cover your ass by not qualifying your comments in notes provided.
Then when they not working they would have gone to congress and said you did not provide funds as recommended to test fund test now and thus discover field was right and fix them way before they did fix them.
Of course the correct honorable thing to do the first time would have been tell congress and administration if you not giving us the funding to fully test them remove me and I will inform the press and sleep soundly in retirement.
@@rob1248996 Lousy quality control. No oversight as regards the Rhode Island Torpedo Factory. AND NOT TESTING THEM!
+10 for the Firefly reference.
Nice work, Drach. We had two of the mk 37 open mounts on the Chicago (CG-11), one on either side on the after "mack" structure. These were manned by the ship's Marine Detachment, to the Gunner's Mate' amusement seeing the jarheads standing in the weather during General Quarters while they stayed safe and warm in the directors and handling rooms.
Nothing worse than a bored Marine
"Hey bill..see that duck in the water way over there? 5 bucks says I get him in one shot. "
This might not be as funny as the duck story, but it was relayed to me by my grandfather. One of his hometown buddies was the gunner on an open mount in WWII during the invasion of North Africa, and he got a promotion for taking out a duck with a single shot. Except it wasn't a duck, it was a Berber tribesman wandering along the shoreline alone. And yes, it was a straightforward, unprovoked murder.
On Albany, CG-10, marines manned the port gun and us GMGs manned the starboard. Started as pointer and moved to gun captain. 70-73.
I was assigned as the gunnery officer on the U.S. Coast Guard high endurance cutter Pontchartrain (WHEC-70) in 1970. We had a single 5"/38. It was a wonderful system that was very accurate. The ship had just returned from Vietnam and had worn out the mount so we got a reconditioned one that was in tip top shape.
served aboard the uss samuel gompers (ad-37) from 1970-73. the ship was a destroyer tender that did repair work on other ships and carried a single 5"/38 mount forward. during my only deployment the powers that be decided to shake the rust out of this gun mount and let off 4-5 rounds. blew the paneling off of the walls of the wardroom among other things. took our carpentry shop some time to effect that repair!!!
I was on AS-36 and on our shake down cruise we fired the 5"-38 out from Gitmo. I was steering and the back blast could move you back 3 or 4 feet if the windows on the pilot house didn't get closed in time. Later on the removed that gun from the ship for some reason.
@rob1248996 - oh yeah, they pulled our gun off too the next time the ship went in drydock!
sailed with Gompers on my first WestPac (1981) before she detached for Diego Garcia
My late uncle was a retired Senior Chief Gunner's Mate Technician, from 1951 to 1971, served in Korea and Vietnam.
In his opinion, the 5 inch 38 was one of the finest pieces of artillery, on land or sea, that the United States ever developed.
He actually preferred the 38, over the later 51 and 54 caliber mounts developed in the 50's and 60's, saying that if you gave him a decent gun crew on a 38, he could outperform and run one of the 51 or 54 caliber mounts into the ground.
I was a hotcaseman, loader and ultimately pointer on mount 52 aboard USS Johnston DD-821 from 75 to 79. Even at that late point, these mounts could lay down tremendous fire against shore targets, which we practiced against often. The fire control computer (still the original analog unit she was built with), was the only significant limiter against air targets. It was a tremendous experience to charge at high speed with mount 51 firing as we ran towards shore - the turned to open both mounts - finally egressing at narrow aspect with my mount firing. Thank you for this video
You guys had some huge boots to fill sharing a name with DD-557. Big jock-strap too.
😅@@haldorasgirson9463Yes, Lt Camander Earnest Evens, skipper of the Johnston and posthumous MOH awardee was synonymous widely recognized with the most heroic action of any DD in US Naval history. See the Battle of Samar if you don't already know.
Hey Shipmate! I was on the Jolly J from 71-73. I worked in Main Control and aft engineroom on her. Got of when she went to the reserves. Those 5"/38's still have my ears ringing!
Hey Shipmate! @@brucelytle1144 I was a Sonarman. Shouldn't have been in gun mounts - but crew was mainly reserves and they were not aboard most of the time. Left the Navy in 1989 after 14 years.
Delightfully subtle Firefly reference in the title :)
I felt that title ... right in the fireflies
Nice Firefly reference.😁
So glad you have good taste in TV shows.
And the rest...
@@khaelamensha3624 are here on Gilligan's Isle?
I somewhere heard that a number of the 5"/25s wound up as more potent submarine deck guns.
Yep, replacing or supplementing 3" or 4" that the subs already had
There's definitely one on USS Cod. You can even use its cranks
Very nice Firefly reference there Drach
Had the pleasure of serving as a Fire Controlman aboard the USS Richard L Page (FFG 5) which had a 5"/38 gun mount. Amazing weapon.
Nice Firefly show reference in the title. This channel is nerdelicious.
That firefly reference HURTS
For me the most interesting thing is to read the comments from folks who actually used the 5"/38. After you read the comment, you then process how old that must mean they are, ...and what history they must have lived through, ...and now they are here on the InterWeb sharing that insight. That's pretty cool.
As huge fan of both Firefly and the 5”38 the title of this video just made me laugh. Well done sir. Glad to see you are a fellow browncoat.
The sheer numbers of US weapons production in WWII is STAGGERING. The Axis had no chance, really.
Not once they brought the *entire Free World* into the fight on the other side, no not really. Schoolboy error - p'ing off everyone including the jocks and the teachers.
@@AndrewGivens the kicker is they brought the US into the war in pretty much the only way that would guarantee a negotiated peace was not an option.....
there's mistakes, and then there's aiming for the Darwin Award hall of fame.
Yep, unknowingly, the Japanese attacking Pearl Harbor did all of the Free peoples of the world a favor. It's a real shame that those 2500 that died during that massacre had to die for the US to FINALLY really become involved. But the political state of the country didn't want to be involved in "Another European War" as they seen it at the time. But once we were attacked & thousands died & a lot of our warships were destroyed, anyone that was STILL ANTI-WAR kept their mouths shut because that would have seemed very UNPatriotic. AND, if it had been widely known what the Germans were doing to the Jews, I think most would not have been antiwar. And although the Japanese were killing Chinese on a massive scale too, I would guess that was not widely known by the middle class & lower class of people.
I guess what I'm trying to say is respect for the UK & the free people's that joined with the UK 🇬🇧, & held the lines long enough for us Yanks to get involved. I'm sure back then the UK didn't count on having to stand alone against Germany, Japan & the Italians with no help coming from France.
And I'm not trying to say the UK would have lost if the US had not got involved. However, because the US did get involved it made the Allies twice as strong. The only thing was, we had to train soldiers, sailors & pilots. We had to create numerous factories & train a lot of our females & elderly on running these factories. It wasn't just a few people in the US doing this. Our people came together then, more than ever before or since to ultimately do anything & everything we needed to do to help win the war. Although, in reality, invading the US would be a logistical nightmare for any country, I imagine that to a lot of us, invasion was a very real thing to be worried about. I'm not sure but I think that was when we developed the Coast Guard & the National Guard. And then after deciding we were going to be in the war, we still had to get with the Brits & establish a plan on what to do. First, second & third.
The US produced 20 fleet carriers in 3 years, that's simply MIND BOGGLING, the japanese were barely producing 1 per year.
Not only that but they had enough oil to actually power them all and supplies to keep them in top shape.
They also managed to recover a lot of ships other navies would've deemed too damaged to even try.
Simply put, there was nothing quite like the American navy war machine.
Anybody with two functioning brain cells at the time knew that if the US turned it production abilities to war, there was no winning for those on the opposite side. Isoroku Yamamoto is credited with saying of the attack on Pearl Harbor, "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." Yamamoto had attended university in the US and be a Naval Attache in the 1920s, so was all too familiar with US production capabilities. In fact Yamamoto was so aware of US abilities that when talking about press and military messages in Japan, “A lot of people are feeling relieved, or saying they’re ‘grateful to Admiral Yamamoto’ because there hasn’t been a single air raid. They’re very wrong: the fact that the enemy hasn’t come is no thanks to Admiral Yamamoto, but to the enemy himself. So if they want to express gratitude to somebody, I wish they’d express it to America. If the latter really made up its mind to wade in on us, there’d be no way of defending a city like Tokyo.”
Oh, do I sense a nod to Firefly there! Well, I think Wash would be able to get through that barrage like a leaf on the wind. ;-)
I see what you did there! 😉
Nice reference in the title there, gave me a good chuckle when I saw the video pop up xD
Made me think about how "Serenity" seems to be a rather rare ship name, at least when it comes to warships. Makes sense though....
it seems more a British warship name than American, but I'm sure it could be worked out.
Alas, there seems to be no Serenity Valley on Earth to name it after... at least none of note. That, and they usually don't name ships after battles that were lost.
Serenity isn't a warship.
@@blindleader42 There are a few ships that get named after lost battles, but generally it is where there is some claim to success or heroic defeat or similar (HMS Dunkirk and USS Bunker Hill are examples).
Then you also have the US Navy's naming of ships after traitors and their victories in armed rebellion against the United States. USS Chancellorsville was named after a defeat of the United States, but it was named in honour of the people who defeated the United States.
There's an old truism that says if it looks right it'll do alright. And in terms of guns and turrets I've always thought the twin 5inch/38 turret looked just right. And it was! Another great video, thanks Drach!
M. Dassault said this about airplanes too
Now i want firefly back, again
Ok, about to listen to the podcast. But let me get a big thank you in there for the Firefly reference!
"What is it with the US Navy and sextuple things on outlandish designs?"
It ain't American if it doesn't have more dakka
Oh, the amount of times I've turned the Atlanta in WOWS into a floating minigun.
@@ph89787 The sheer torrent of shells from an Atlanta when I'm alone in a sector always makes me go "Nope, not going in there"
Dakka dakka dakka! :D
Design bureau: "How many guns and torpedo launchers do you want"
US Navy:" Yes"
Design bureau:" Let me refrase that, How many guns and torpedo launchers do you need ?"
US Navy: "All of them"
Imagine two Atlantas per carrier as dedicated escorts
Another great video and I love what I can only assume is a Firefly reference in the the title. I got a good laugh out of that.
I went to Guuners Mate A School in Great Lakes NTC. I trained on the 5 54 that were mounted on the Knox Frigates. Later I was stationed on a Perry Class Frigate that had the Mk 75 76mm. OTO Melera that was mounted mid ship. What was a trip about the Mk 75 it was its an unmanned mount, and it could fire up to 80 rounds a minute. This brought back many memories, you had 19 to 20 year old sailors maintaining multi million dollar equipment. You grew up really fast.
Cameo appearance of my first ship, USS Hull (DD-945) at 26:46. Three 5”/54s and two twin 3”/50 mounts - it was a real “gun’ ship. We rearranged quite a bit of real estate in South Vietnam with the 5”/54s.
In my last sea tour as Weapons Officer on USS Long Beach (CGN-9) I had two 5”38 single guns mounted transversely on the 01 level amidships. One had been made in 1938, the other in 1939. Long Beach had been built without any guns and was retrofitted later when attacks by small PT type missile boats was recognized as a threat. The Marine Detachment manned one of the guns and the Gunner’s Mates and deck seamen the other. The highlight of that tour, with respect to the guns, was qualifying for gunfire support at San Clemente island, the first time in the ship’s history. We had to fire a modified illumination mission at night to qualify. The shore side gun engaged the target and the opposite side gun fired star shells at a higher elevation over the head of the gun captain in the shore side, Marine manned, gun. There is a steel hood acting as a blast shield to protect the gun captain shown at 20:44. It may be the last time that feature fulfilled its design function.
I sailed with the Hull at the end of her life...I was on DDG-7 an Adams class with only 2 5" but multiple weapon systems
I haven't watched, yet, but I did want to acknowledge the Firefly reference in the title :P
So the only reason Serenity kept flying was the Alliance didnt use 5in 38s? Shiny.
Drach if this title is a reference to the Firefly theme song then I am truly impressed.
Very nice Drach. The real question remains though, do you have the skill and talent to work in a burn the land and boil the sea reference? That has to cover at least two weapons systems right there.
Burn the land -- easy. Flamethrowers/napalm.
Boil the sea -- hmm. Hedgehog? or a bit later, Bikini nuclear tests?
@@DonDueed Technically a nuke is capable of both...
The two danish cold war frigates, Peder skram and Herluf trolle, designed in the sixties, had the 5/38 dual mount as their main armament. 2 mountings on each ship. The choice was between this and the french 100 mm. Can still be seen today as one of the ships is preserved as a museum ship in copenhagen. B turret has been replaced by 8 harpoon missiles, but A turret and its magazine is open for all to see.
Ah man, perfect timing as I‘m building DD-743 and bonus 5/38! Happy history, beautifully despatched!
“Burn the land
Boil the sea
You can’t take the sky from me”
Finally! A video of my favorite naval armament.
Interesting as always, made even better by a title that seems to be a "Firefly" reference.
I attended the US Navy gunners mate A school in 1968 where they had among other weapon systems, a 5” X 38 open twin mount on display, where at the end we had our graduation photo taken… and then I was sent to river boats and never saw one again.
Ah yes, the USN's favourite duck-hunting weapon. Especially Japanese ducks.
Pull!
@@CSSVirginia boom
Japanese: "...Why do I hear the Duck Hunt theme playing in the background?"
Americans: _Dog chuckle noises_
@@TheEDFLegacy Meanwhile on USS Washington. Vice Admiral Willis Ching Lee is doing skeet shooting with her secondary battery.
Kamikazes have entered the chat...
Burn the land and boil the sea
You can't take the sky from me
Unless you've got 700 5"/38 turrets
Drach, i was at my sons Boy Scout meeting last night (Tue in USA) and GM1 and i were talking about the 5in 38, then i get to work this morning and you drop this for my Wed Rum Ration. You're both awesome and a mind reader!
Thanks Drach .. 2 Full Broadsides of DryDock Content over the weekend and today your doing some very nice shooting with a 5 inch Gun … Excellent Work ..!
Love hearing all your different intros because I know some banging content is coming after. Thanks man.
Saw what you did there,, 5"-38, bang,👍👍
The Firefly references!
Nice little Firefly nod there ;)
Nice Firefly reference !
The title of this video, is this...a Firefly reference? Is Drach a Browncoat?!
Well, he was showing steampunk naval wargame sometime earlier, so he might be a fan of a space western...
Can Redcoats be Browncoats? 😝
This may be a stretch for you, Drach, though you are deep into engineering, but it is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT to discuss in some detail how Alternating Current data transfer system (US Navy WWII and after Selsyn/Synchro -- rotating magnetic needles -- and German Magnetic Amplifiers) allowed such things as the Mark 37 AA FCS to get its accuracy and speed and high reliability, which British DC-powered HWCS and other fire-control connectors were eventually failures against high-speed, high-maneuverability aircraft. This was CRITICAL in allowing the US to get such good FCSs. It is slightly technical, but anyone who understands how a compass needle works should have no trouble at all in following the AC explanations.
Again, Read Lundstrom and you'll see from his analysis of IJNAF losses that USN M37 and 5in/38 guns were not effective in the AA role, in 1942. Lundstrom carefully analyses the loss of each IJN aircraft shot down, and losses to 5in AA were a very small fraction of 5in AA kill claims. In many cases the BuOrd accepted every AA kill claim even when the kill claims exceeded the number of observed IJN aircraft, and many of the IJN aircraft were seen to depart the area after the attack... It's high time to look at actual kills vs claimed kills and then recognize that endlessly praising BuOrd and their faked AA data does great harm to our historical understanding of the limitations of 1940s USN AA technology, and it's actual performance in combat.
The title alone is worth the like.
People at work always give me looks when they ask me what I'm listening to while prepping in the morning, and I tell them "The development and history of the naval 5 inch gun used throughout world war 2" lol
Sextuple Madness later came ashore on tracks, in the form of the M50 Ontos. Naval connection: USMC picked up the project, after the US Army's interest waned.
Front soldiers or sailors do find practical solutions to their main problems.. Like how transform a M2. 50 mg in an assault hand held weapon. The Marines again 😇
@@khaelamensha3624 That was the M1919A6, a .30 cal.
The German Wiesel should take note. Just clear that backblast area!
Excellent explanation of one of the most important weapon systems of WWII. OBTW, "Witch a taugh".
1942 was a disastrous year for Japan's naval aviation and it never recovered. Especially the sea battles for control of Guadalcanal. Battle's like Santa Cruz saw their carrier based air groups absolutely decimated by the sheer about amount of AA the ships screening the US carriers could put up there. Ships like Battleship South Dakota armed to the teeth with 5"/38s and bofors and cruisers like Juneau sporting 16 - 5"/38s. What Japanese pilots that did make it back were completely shocked by the amount of AA they had to deal with.
What about a leaf on the wind?
I’m still pissed that HE KILLED WASH.
My first gun mount I worked on in the US Navy was a 5" / 38 on the USS Longbeach in 1987-89
Loved those guns I served as a fire controlman for them on the Long Beach from 90-94.
@@davidhalliday2796 Were you on the decommissioning team?
@@rickfox4068 Yes I was. I was on a team that fired one of the saluting batteries for the ceremony.
I love the cruise ship fitting at 25:50. Deserves a special mention! 😂
The 5"/38cal was practically a religion in the USN, especially given the absolute fetish the fleet developed for paving every open horizontal surface with anti-aircraft guns.
Have you done videos like this on the British 4.7” guns
Or the German 11” guns
Those two would be most interesting to me of the ww2 guns
Of the post war guns: the Italian 76.2 L62 gun
we do not mention german 11" guns on this channel, they stole Warspites record for the longest hit (:-)
Had a 5" 38 cal right outside my working compartment aboard Intrepid, and although I was an AZ, the gun guys taught me a few positions. With my "ears" on, I was able to really enjoy their gunnery practice against a towed sleeve out in the Tonkin Gulf. Marvelous weapon, with a great rep from both WW II and Korea. Wish I had one as a yard ornament!
"...and if that don't work? Use more gun."
The US Navy during WW2, probably.
Definitely.
or a bigger gun.
@@Xino6804 or more bigger dakka 😂
When I was about 12yrs old, while visiting relatives in Houston, TX, those relatives took us to see the USS Texas. At the time, at least, the pedestal mounted single 5inch guns could be operated/moved by visitors, so my brother and I each sat on either side of the gun to do just that. I've always found it, I'd say "complex," to aim the gun as one person on one side rotated the gun, and the person on the other side raised/lowered the barrel. To me, this configuration would make it somewhat difficult to aim especially at incoming aircraft, but I suppose that's what training is for. Btw, these guns may take the sky, but they won't take the Sky Den. lol.
Good commentary. The 5 inch 38 is a great gun. I saw a scale model of one built by a machinist; it fired .38 Special cartridges. One large magnifying glass was required to do it, most likely.
That sounds pretty cool
As said before, my favorite gun is my favorite class of ship, the Fletcher's! Thanks again, Drach!🎉
I was on a FRAMed Gearing and usually enjoyed some free time during shore bombardment in Vietnam. Generally our rate of fire was pretty sedate, but there were a few times when we got to "Fire for effect" and put as many rounds as possible downrange as fast as we could. Those 5" 38s could bark fast. We did wonder how they might do against an incoming flight of enemy jets, but our gunners mates assured us the 38s would make short work of them. I'm glad we never really had to find out.
Lol the jets would destroy you with missiles from out of range
@@gaberobison680 We're talking 1965, 66, 67 not 2023. Also talking about don't fire until fired upon. Migs circling and you have to wait to see what they are going to do. Fun times.
Great video. My father served aboard the USS Atlanta cl51. His battle station was 5”/38 mount 52 in the upper handling room. It was hit by a Japanese 5” shell. Killed everyone in the area except for him.
5"/38s were being refurbished in late 80s early 90s at Naval Ordnance Station Louisville.... for the BBs
It's funny how people go on about fighting the next war with the latest and greatest from the last war
In 1971 I was part of the commishing crew for the Coast Guard cutter Munro , the point is that she was armed with a single 5/38 main gun , 6 .50 cals 2 , 81mm mortors and yes 6 21 inch torpedo tubes . Yes all hand me downs from the navy .
A-Gang MK1 on the Munro, '03-'06.
Gun gang 94-96, unfortunately it had gone under FRAM, or neutered as we called them losing the 5”38, torpedoes, sonar ect in exchange for the mk75, cwis srboc launchers with SLQ-32 and right when I arrived 2 Mk38 25mm chain guns where the mk32 svtt were prevuiously located. They still maintained the dredger hoist from the 5” though and we used it to move the 76mm ammo still in its cans to the lower mags and old powder mag.
It's funny how often attempts to lighten mounts by making them single-purpose failed, and ended up with heavier mounts than the DP mounts they were supposed to be lighter than.
Well, someone watched firefly recently
Great show
My grandfather was on the crew of one of these mounted aboard a Fletcher class destroyer. A wonderful piece of naval artillery, he swore by it.
Probably swore at it, too.
As a crewmember on the Jeremiah O' Brien, I just wanted to say thanks for mentioning us and the 5"/38 Mark 37! If you ever want to stop by you're more than welcome! You should come on one of our cruises, we'll let you blow her whistle and steer her too!
Why does "battleship holiday" sound so much like a fun summertime excursion?
Depends on which side you're on. . .
When i read the video title, i got an sudden urge to dig out my old brown coat....
Oh. Ohhhhh. You have no idea how long I've been waiting for this topic. 5"/38 let's gooooooooo!
Edit: Loved this video. I think the 5" DP gun line may be my favorite line of weapons in USN history if not all history. All of the Alliance ships I design in Nebulous Fleet Command have at least one 5" weapon with most designs I build having multiple twin mounts. The idea that we could see 5" RPF being equipped to space combat ships of the future just makes me happy.
What a wonderful concise story of a weapon's development. You seemed to have included everything, theory, technology, and personal opinions. The only thing missing was the connection about where the phrase "Take the seas, take the skies" comment comes from, or if I miss it? Also, little mention of the influence of proximity shells on development.
The reference is to the short-lived, long-loved sci-fi television show "Firefly", whose title music included the lines "burn the land and boil the seas, you can't take the sky from me"
I don't think the VT fused shell was an influence on the gun - it was fitted into the gun once that had been designed. Everything the VT shell needed from a launch tube was already there.
A well-done history of an important naval weapon.
I think we have an open mount version of a 5" gun in a local park (Hawaiian Gardens Veterans Memorial Park)
That's a great idea, glad I thought of it.
24:54, now equipping Cruise Ships with 5" guns ...
I served onboard the USS Long Beach CGN-9. We had two, single 5"/38 gun mounts mounted mid-ship. They were taken from a decommissioned destroyer as an after thought, since the Long Beach was designed as a "missile only" platform. I was able to "allocate" one of the expended shells after a test fire in the early 90's.
That picture of the twin gun turret in front of the cruise liner is classic. What a contrast! 👏👏👏👍
It would be very curious to see if the twin mount on the Porters and Somers were retrofitted a la German Battlecruisers with increased elevation in the early days of WWII, say, 1939 or 1940. It would increase their topweight yes, but imagine how beneficial they would be with 8 DP mounts. Though admittedly, the SP dual mount is a bit chunkier than the DP Dual mount later on
The SP mount was about half the weight of the DP ones. They quickly lost one mount for more AA, and many ended the war with two twin one single DP mounts
Given they were already a bit overweight, trying four DPs would have been absurdly heavy
What a fantastic lesson about an iconic gun.