As someone that's tunes every day for a living, i can tell you that going the haltech R5 will make you far happier. we tune around 4 haltechs a week and run the R5 hsltech on our R5P7 and we turn it pretty hard. The adaptronics were well ahead of their time for fearures /dollar value, but hardware wise, they were unreliable, we stopped tuning them a few years back. Love your work Trent @ ChequeredTuning
Didn't see them mention Adaptronic in the video, only Haltech and MoTeC, with the incorrect mention of Haltech buying MoTeC,.. which Bosch might have problems hearing about 😂
I love the two gents, they have fuel in their veins, just amazing resilience. I hope that Haltech will get them to their goals, can't have more meltdowns happening. Thank Greg for taking us along! 👍💪✌
In case anyone glosses over the subscriber count, it is 23 POINT 1 K not 231 K , this channel really should have more subs based on the subject matter.
If Bugatti can claim a record going only one way, I think this is still a record even though we all know a second run is required. Now if this doesn't prove how amazing this engine is , I don't know what does. Most if not all engines would've exploded into a million pieces, but not this one built by absolute Legends, Demi Gods or Gods (you picks). Every time I see people do something to perfection, no matter what it is, it is truly amazing. Thank you once again for another great video.
I cannot believe you guys went to speedweek, i should have stayed longer, i would die to hear that v12 in person. Really. Next year please come again, your beautiful machine would be the one ill wait for!
Hi Greg, we met at El Mirage briefly - I'm the guy who makes custom motorcycles in Taiwan. Wanted to suggest the AMP EFI MS3 Pro ECU. They are made in the USA and support V12 engines. They are also an open source design so there are no problems with planned obsolescence. Of course there are pros and cons to every choice, but it seems like MS3 would meet a lot of Peet and Kevin's needs. I've had great luck with them myself too. Thanks!
@@morganelliot7153 great to hear from you! I remember you. We purchased a HalTech R5 and we are starting to build the harness this week. I think we have everything we need at the moment.
Greg thanks for documenting the trials and tribulations of these persistent genius guys. Definitely bummed it was a software issue. I'll be watching for updates!
My heart goes out to you guys!! I felt bad giving this a thumbs up (you definitely know why Greg) & I really don't want to say "that's racing" (oh bugger me, you said it anyway!) many of us have been there before, just not with such a fantastic engine as this though! I feel for the whole team, Cal took it bad too! Being a crew chief in the past myself, I too have been there feeling really bad over something even though some things can be out of your control. Great to see you back at it, I'm sure you will sort things. I presume by Sept. you mean the WOS? Cheers!! From Oz!!
FuelTech USA is a good resource (located in Ball Ground, GA), and offer the FT700 (supports up to 16 pistons). Bad news is that the first batch of ECUs is expected October 15th, 2024, so won't help you this year. They are an American company (Luis De Leon is a good dude). They are all about racing, firsts, records, reliability (ref: Steve Morris Engines YT channel). Thanks for sharing, and good luck to ya'all.
That poor motor was bouncing around redline way, way too much. Not surprised the motor got hurt. You guys need to get a handle on the throttle control issue. Don't get me wrong. It was a great effort by your team.
I also think the Pete and Kevin should look into maybe hitting up Haltech in Australia cause they would be all over helping you guys out. I also think you would benefit on the safety features theese newer ecu's can provide. I actually wrote this comment before I saw that you were going with Haltech. Just see if you can get sponsorship from them I'm sure they would consider it. Can't hurt to ask. Ithink you should try and talk to Scott or he's known as Tuning Fork on youtube.
I’m pretty sure there are people out there that can rewrite the software in that Mo teC. Look up Paul Stien. He and his partner in the 80’s, were pioneers in data acquisition. This would be a walk in the park for them.
I have a haltech R5 on my turbo viper and my god is it nice. I absolutely love it, i tried fueltech offering and the ecu was defective sofware was lacking and their boost controlller solenoid were bad (one leaked, and the other looked like trash brand new) Everything ive bought from haltech on the other hand has been top notch and software is really powerfull.
Maybe you want to run the ecu full sequential but if you find that you want more options you could run a Link ecu. I do on my v12 in my drift car. I do however have to run it wasted spark and batch fire on the injectors. Thanks for the video!
If Pete and Kevin need ECU options then I would suggest looking at companies here in the UK like Cosworth Electronics (formerly Pectel), Syvecs and Life Racing. All three will be able to cater for a V12 running in excess of 10k rpm like this one. They won't be cheap but they're all motorsport orientated companies used across the globe.
Don't rush to make the next event. Take your time and be sure it right when you get back, You guys have nothing to prove to anybody, Yall have been there, done the deed, got the Tee shirt drank a beer and cruised back home winners
Thanks for the video. To further understand, there was a software issue programming the ECU as well as the rev limiter being hit multiple times. Early on during the run, was the switch that the driver enables and then reset, was that to engage the transmission?
Bummer Motor issues😢 But Traction in low speed needs to be addressed❗️ How about a DRS as used in F1? Appears the Exhaust heat may be heating the Drive Tires😮 Turn the Collector UP? Or Low Leading Wings in front of Drive Tires as NHRA Top Fuel? Old Skool Gear Head, just thinking😊
Oh guys, I'm sorry to hear this result.. Any 14yr old kid with a computer will be able to build an Engine Management System with off-the-shelf parts. Get angy, get hungry, get after it..
What V12 is this? 369 ci? I take it, that it was designed to fit into a particular category, and it appears to be all custom designed? Would love to see more about that.
I knew when Cal had to reset things it was probably already too late, pushing through the struggles are part of it though! Haltech should take much better care of you guys
Man, that is a bummer! Stinking computer! Wow, things go wrong fast when you are pushing the engine to 10,500 rpms. You have built that engine strong because it did not have too much damage even after all that high-speed hammering. A few other carmakers make V-12's: could you adapt a controller from one of their engines? If worse came to worse, could you borrow a second-hand engine from Cosworth? Still gotta follow you all!
Oof, these things happen. If it was easy, it wouldn't be fun. There is predetonation, but then there is a lean condition that just melts aluminum, like a plasma cutter. I did a similar thing with a turbocharged engine, and it melted a piston and a bunch of the cylinder head, the exhaust port "ported" itself. It deposited aluminum on the cylinder wall as here, and filled up the turbine wheel of the turbo with molten aluminum! Good times.
Sh!t happens exp in racing! fuel tech has the best customer support. if I was a betting man I'd say it was a combination of going lean while hitting the Rev limiter good luck on in your future endeavors
Arrh, what?? Haltech DO NOT OWN MoTeC. They're completely different companies, with MoTeC now being under the Bosch group of companies. Both make great products. I find it difficult to believe that the 'adjusted in the wrong direction' error would come from either company. It's far more likely to be a setting that's inverted, such as the direction the voltage goes on a sensor is set backwards where the ECM is told what the input will do. Right at the start of the run, that spot where it spun up the wheels and was all over the track, is the exact same spot that Alex Taylors videos show her and others having the exact same issue of traction and soft surface. Once past that spot, or further out to the right, the surface was better.
Need a surveyors transit to check that deck..... sure not the news I wanted to hear for this project.. been following and had high hopes.. get taken out by bad programing? sux....
I hate to be that guy but he says in the video that he turned the transmission off and then back on again but you can very clearly see that he just turned it on after banging it off the limiter for 20 seconds. Unless I miss something it looks a lot like it just was never turned on to begin with.
There were so many distractions leading up to the launch. Moments before we were ready to be sent down course a streamliner exploded and caught fire next to us in the staging lane. This put us on a course hold for 10 + minutes while the driver was in the car while outside temps where over 100 deg. Then we were ready to go and the canopy closed and in the push truck and there was a second course hold for 2 minutes with the drive roasting inside. Hard to say exactly what happened with the switch, however, we are going to replace the switch with a flip up safety cover type and possibly incorporate a indicator light when the ignition is on and transmission is off. This kind of of happens from time to time.
@@GregQuirin okay yeah I just wasn't sure if anybody had noticed in the video that it was not on to begin with. I didn't want you guys chasing the wrong problem when it appears as though the problem was it just wasn't turned on. But yeah all good these things definitely do happen.
Man I hate that. I feel like when they were running it on the dyno they should have caught that the fuel was adjusting the wrong way vs the map and o2 sensors.
@@bcbloc02 I agree , but there was a recall on this ecu and i think i didnt compensate for altitude or high external temps. thats why it ran fine ay ElMirage or on the Dyno which is at sea level.
@@robertfleming5829 I thought Kevin said it compensated backwards was the defect. I must have misunderstood. I didn’t pay enough attenation to see how many if any O2 sensors they were running or if they were trying to run it closed loop.
if hitting the limiter is hurting it, might want to lower that limit... captain obvious over here... I know, I know... can you set the limiter to 9k in lower gears? set it to 11k in high gear
Since they only need wide open throttle I would hope they run a locked out distributor And a carburetor. You won’t gain power with fuel injection and computer ignition.
Hats off to Cal, I never realized how much those cars move around at that speed. Wow, that takes guts.
He drove the SHIT out of that thing. Well done!
Sorry that it failed due to computer, now with new one you may get even better results. Thanks for taking us along.
You guys are my heroes, regardless! ❤❤❤ Getting your car, powered by your engine, out there on the salt, 2 mph over the record? HUGE ACHIEVEMENT! 👍👍
As someone that's tunes every day for a living, i can tell you that going the haltech R5 will make you far happier. we tune around 4 haltechs a week and run the R5 hsltech on our R5P7 and we turn it pretty hard. The adaptronics were well ahead of their time for fearures /dollar value, but hardware wise, they were unreliable, we stopped tuning them a few years back. Love your work Trent @ ChequeredTuning
Didn't see them mention Adaptronic in the video, only Haltech and MoTeC, with the incorrect mention of Haltech buying MoTeC,.. which Bosch might have problems hearing about 😂
@@PiDsPagePrototypes was near the end.
I love the two gents, they have fuel in their veins, just amazing resilience. I hope that Haltech will get them to their goals, can't have more meltdowns happening.
Thank Greg for taking us along! 👍💪✌
A touch less rev-limit and just the slightest bit of fuel enrichment up top for emergency cooling near rev limiter would be a smart approach.
Thanks for the video and thanks to the V12 team for all their efforts.
How nice for the people from Germany to arrive! Amazing skills from two great engineers!!
Bummer setback but i always look forward to what pete and kevin are working on next. Hopefully they can make it to bonneville in September.
In case anyone glosses over the subscriber count, it is 23 POINT 1 K not 231 K , this channel really should have more subs based on the subject matter.
I was at the start line and got to hear this monster go. The sound brought tears to my eyes what an engine!!!😊
If Bugatti can claim a record going only one way, I think this is still a record even though we all know a second run is required. Now if this doesn't prove how amazing this engine is , I don't know what does. Most if not all engines would've exploded into a million pieces, but not this one built by absolute Legends, Demi Gods or Gods (you picks). Every time I see people do something to perfection, no matter what it is, it is truly amazing. Thank you once again for another great video.
Sorry to hear that. Your San Diego fans are wishing you a speedy rebuild and hope that you can make it back to the salt next month!
🤜🏻🤛🏻
I cannot believe you guys went to speedweek, i should have stayed longer, i would die to hear that v12 in person. Really. Next year please come again, your beautiful machine would be the one ill wait for!
Hi Greg, we met at El Mirage briefly - I'm the guy who makes custom motorcycles in Taiwan. Wanted to suggest the AMP EFI MS3 Pro ECU. They are made in the USA and support V12 engines. They are also an open source design so there are no problems with planned obsolescence. Of course there are pros and cons to every choice, but it seems like MS3 would meet a lot of Peet and Kevin's needs. I've had great luck with them myself too. Thanks!
@@morganelliot7153 great to hear from you! I remember you. We purchased a HalTech R5 and we are starting to build the harness this week. I think we have everything we need at the moment.
what a shop, I wish I knew more about this motor so I can learn, I have a few wild and crazy builds in work
Watch their other videos! This isn’t the only wild project they’ve got going 👍
Greg thanks for documenting the trials and tribulations of these persistent genius guys. Definitely bummed it was a software issue. I'll be watching for updates!
Great content, thanks for the ride!
That really stinks, so much work done by this team! Hopefully they can get her fixed up without too much hassle
I've been waiting and looking forward to a video. Thanks, go out to everyone involved.
amazing, and a ride along too.
that driver has some big balls lol.
Thanks, Greg. Please continue to keep us up to date. Tough break for the team.
My heart goes out to you guys!! I felt bad giving this a thumbs up (you definitely know why Greg) & I really don't want to say "that's racing" (oh bugger me, you said it anyway!) many of us have been there before, just not with such a fantastic engine as this though! I feel for the whole team, Cal took it bad too! Being a crew chief in the past myself, I too have been there feeling really bad over something even though some things can be out of your control. Great to see you back at it, I'm sure you will sort things. I presume by Sept. you mean the WOS? Cheers!! From Oz!!
great work and video,thank you.
FuelTech USA is a good resource (located in Ball Ground, GA), and offer the FT700 (supports up to 16 pistons). Bad news is that the first batch of ECUs is expected October 15th, 2024, so won't help you this year. They are an American company (Luis De Leon is a good dude). They are all about racing, firsts, records, reliability (ref: Steve Morris Engines YT channel).
Thanks for sharing, and good luck to ya'all.
That poor motor was bouncing around redline way, way too much. Not surprised the motor got hurt. You guys need to get a handle on the throttle control issue. Don't get me wrong. It was a great effort by your team.
I appreciate y’all.
Thanks for sharing. Hope you can make it back out in Sept.
I also think the Pete and Kevin should look into maybe hitting up Haltech in Australia cause they would be all over helping you guys out.
I also think you would benefit on the safety features theese newer ecu's can provide. I actually wrote this comment before I saw that you were going with Haltech. Just see if you can get sponsorship from them I'm sure they would consider it. Can't hurt to ask. Ithink you should try and talk to Scott or he's known as Tuning Fork on youtube.
These videos are great, thank you so much
Awesome coverage. Incredible effort at Bonneville
I’m pretty sure there are people out there that can rewrite the software in that Mo teC. Look up Paul Stien. He and his partner in the 80’s, were pioneers in data acquisition. This would be a walk in the park for them.
@@grumpyg9350 Thank you!
Still amazing. Sometimes you win, sometimes you learn.
Definitely heroes in my book! Keep on keepin' on!
I have a haltech R5 on my turbo viper and my god is it nice. I absolutely love it, i tried fueltech offering and the ecu was defective sofware was lacking and their boost controlller solenoid were bad (one leaked, and the other looked like trash brand new) Everything ive bought from haltech on the other hand has been top notch and software is really powerfull.
Maybe you want to run the ecu full sequential but if you find that you want more options you could run a Link ecu. I do on my v12 in my drift car. I do however have to run it wasted spark and batch fire on the injectors. Thanks for the video!
If Pete and Kevin need ECU options then I would suggest looking at companies here in the UK like Cosworth Electronics (formerly Pectel), Syvecs and Life Racing. All three will be able to cater for a V12 running in excess of 10k rpm like this one. They won't be cheap but they're all motorsport orientated companies used across the globe.
I can feel Kevin's pain for his baby, but he'll get her fixed. What transmission are they running?
1st Damn guys that sucks but I hope they will build it better. It may have been caused by bouncing off the rev limiter at the start.
Don't rush to make the next event. Take your time and be sure it right when you get back, You guys have nothing to prove to anybody, Yall have been there, done the deed, got the Tee shirt drank a beer and cruised back home winners
Get tuning fork to come when you get Haltec
If the tune has been taking the engine lean for four years it would have been in the data logs. These guys need someone to help them.
Bosch MS bought Motec, Haltech bought Adaptronic. MaxxECU Pro can handle V12 full sequential.
Haltech has was also purchased by race winning brands in 2022
@@juliantullier5610 the R5 should do the job well.
That was a good looking sandwich.
I hope you guys are up and running for late September. If there's any help needed at the shop to make sure you go , just give me a call.
Sorry this happened, Have they checked with Fuel tec they will work on a v12 and are in usa.
This engine should be on megasquirt.
Why didn’t the F/A ratio problem show up on the dyno? Amazing that the car went that fast with a bad F/A ratio and a bad piston.
Drives you crazy when you do everything right but an out-sourced component ruins all your work.
Thanks for the video. To further understand, there was a software issue programming the ECU as well as the rev limiter being hit multiple times. Early on during the run, was the switch that the driver enables and then reset, was that to engage the transmission?
Bummer Motor issues😢
But Traction in low speed needs to be addressed❗️
How about a DRS as used in F1?
Appears the Exhaust heat may be heating the Drive Tires😮
Turn the Collector UP?
Or Low Leading Wings in front of Drive Tires as NHRA Top Fuel?
Old Skool Gear Head, just thinking😊
211 👍's up G Q thank you for sharing 🤗
Oh guys, I'm sorry to hear this result..
Any 14yr old kid with a computer will be able to build an Engine Management System with off-the-shelf parts.
Get angy, get hungry, get after it..
What V12 is this? 369 ci? I take it, that it was designed to fit into a particular category, and it appears to be all custom designed? Would love to see more about that.
@@chuck_machine check out the channel on TH-cam- lots of info on the homemade V12
That’s unfortunate, do you guys run any safeties on the ecu for oil pressure, EGT temps, or a lean condition on the O2
What type of acid would it be to remove the aluminium from the bores?
I knew when Cal had to reset things it was probably already too late, pushing through the struggles are part of it though! Haltech should take much better care of you guys
Haltech ECU upgrade! 😊😊😊
Maxxecu Pro is what they should get.
Man, that is a bummer! Stinking computer! Wow, things go wrong fast when you are pushing the engine to 10,500 rpms. You have built that engine strong because it did not have too much damage even after all that high-speed hammering. A few other carmakers make V-12's: could you adapt a controller from one of their engines?
If worse came to worse, could you borrow a second-hand engine from Cosworth?
Still gotta follow you all!
Cosworths are in short supply this side of the pond .
Man that's messed up but what I don't understand is How does it go past 10 grand on a limiter it's not supposed to go past 10:00 if it's got a limit
Sorry about the failure also too you could go with a fuel tank they run 12 CM and up to 24 fuel injectors too..... DFT 550 buy fueltech
Oof, these things happen. If it was easy, it wouldn't be fun. There is predetonation, but then there is a lean condition that just melts aluminum, like a plasma cutter. I did a similar thing with a turbocharged engine, and it melted a piston and a bunch of the cylinder head, the exhaust port "ported" itself. It deposited aluminum on the cylinder wall as here, and filled up the turbine wheel of the turbo with molten aluminum! Good times.
Bummer
Sh!t happens exp in racing! fuel tech has the best customer support. if I was a betting man I'd say it was a combination of going lean while hitting the Rev limiter good luck on in your future endeavors
Which garebox in the car
Need more gears !!!
Arrh, what?? Haltech DO NOT OWN MoTeC. They're completely different companies, with MoTeC now being under the Bosch group of companies. Both make great products. I find it difficult to believe that the 'adjusted in the wrong direction' error would come from either company. It's far more likely to be a setting that's inverted, such as the direction the voltage goes on a sensor is set backwards where the ECM is told what the input will do.
Right at the start of the run, that spot where it spun up the wheels and was all over the track, is the exact same spot that Alex Taylors videos show her and others having the exact same issue of traction and soft surface. Once past that spot, or further out to the right, the surface was better.
Have you looked at Big Stuff 3
Need a surveyors transit to check that deck..... sure not the news I wanted to hear for this project.. been following and had high hopes.. get taken out by bad programing? sux....
I thought Holley covers 16 cylinders no?
as dean meltzer would say ! sorry about that !
Thanks. Muriatic acid or stronger hydrochloric? I love the shop stuff but sorry the ECU failure caused the need. Thanks again.
I would imagine it's muriatic. That's what I was told to use on a 2 stroke engine I melted a piston in.
1:58 nothing but over rev but like they say shit happens
Holley dominator efi.
Or motec if you want to blow 10k
Why not motec?
I hate to be that guy but he says in the video that he turned the transmission off and then back on again but you can very clearly see that he just turned it on after banging it off the limiter for 20 seconds. Unless I miss something it looks a lot like it just was never turned on to begin with.
There were so many distractions leading up to the launch. Moments before we were ready to be sent down course a streamliner exploded and caught fire next to us in the staging lane. This put us on a course hold for 10 + minutes while the driver was in the car while outside temps where over 100 deg. Then we were ready to go and the canopy closed and in the push truck and there was a second course hold for 2 minutes with the drive roasting inside. Hard to say exactly what happened with the switch, however, we are going to replace the switch with a flip up safety cover type and possibly incorporate a indicator light when the ignition is on and transmission is off. This kind of of happens from time to time.
@@GregQuirin okay yeah I just wasn't sure if anybody had noticed in the video that it was not on to begin with. I didn't want you guys chasing the wrong problem when it appears as though the problem was it just wasn't turned on. But yeah all good these things definitely do happen.
👍
that is really too bad.
You want something done (ECU ) ya gotta do it yourself
Man I hate that. I feel like when they were running it on the dyno they should have caught that the fuel was adjusting the wrong way vs the map and o2 sensors.
I think the 105 degree heat and elevation made a difference in the computer as well
@@robertflanders1158 a proper ecu should be able to operate at any elevation and temps as high as 150 as under hood temps often get that high.
@@bcbloc02 I agree , but there was a recall on this ecu and i think i didnt compensate for altitude or high external temps. thats why it ran fine ay ElMirage or on the Dyno which is at sea level.
@@robertfleming5829 I thought Kevin said it compensated backwards was the defect. I must have misunderstood. I didn’t pay enough attenation to see how many if any O2 sensors they were running or if they were trying to run it closed loop.
The guy's trying to rebuild the engine and some ding-a-ling keeps getting in his face...
Maxxecu, fueltech...
There’s a problem with the design, maybe use voting logic and multiple sensors do as to avoid single point of data failure.
if hitting the limiter is hurting it, might want to lower that limit... captain obvious over here... I know, I know... can you set the limiter to 9k in lower gears? set it to 11k in high gear
Get a MotecM150 Period
🇦🇺👍🤙
Harris Steven Johnson Sandra Smith Sarah
Since they only need wide open throttle I would hope they run a locked out distributor
And a carburetor.
You won’t gain power with fuel injection and computer ignition.
I never comment on anything
RusEFI runs v12 ;)
Quit screwing around and buy a Motec . Haltec bought Adaptronics .
You guys badly need a proper professional motorsport grade ecu...
Life racing \ syvecs is the ONLY choice.. everything else is a high school project
I'd be open to helping you guys, big fan of what you guys are doing.
If you need help or tuning advice don't hesitate to contact me.
Check fuel tech out
well that was exciting NOT EVEN