From a Christian worldview, your arguments make complete sense. Most people who make that statement however, don't see the issue from a committed Christian worldview.
This is the crux of the issue, they see things from a materialistic atheist perspective so to them sex and love are nothing more than bodily functions and brain chemistry. From that limited angle it's hard to see an issue with homosexuality, as well as plenty of other things.
Exactly. To them, there is no greater love than their definition of it. Totally twisted. Only by the Spirit can they be convinced of this because honestly
well that is ok , they are not Christians , they are not the elect , they are free to believe anything they want , they are free to choose death over life , they are free to shun heaven and end up outside , a place we call hell , it's all their choice
I think our English word for love means too many things to different people. The Greeks have 3 words for love: eros, philos and agape which explains it better. You explained it really well because love isn't about feelings its about sacrifice. It is an action of sacrifice. There is feelings involved but its not the true definition. I really think the opposite of love isn't hate its selfishness.
Your comment makes no sense in the context of this video. If you watched the video you'd realize Mike teaches the Truth in love. Jesus/God "never ever condemned homosexuality nor ssm." Perhaps you've never read Matthew 19:4-6 where Jesus affirms the parameters of not only sex but marriage as well, any other combination therefore is indeed sin. Those who have same sex attraction have to practice SELF-DENIAL just as those who have attraction to the opposite sex there are no exceptions.
@Simon Botte Jesus never condemned beastialty or pedophilia either and I promise you there are those who will stand firm to state their case and justify why they are as close to a 4 legged creature or a child.
@Simon Botte the new buzz phrase "Love is Love" just doesn't work in the Kingdom of God Yahua, Yahweh, I Am that I Am, Yeshuah. I loved my dad dearly and deeply as a child before he died. I was 10. Just prior he would beat my mom terribly and regularly cops involved. I was there all the times and as an 8 year old it was and would be to anybody, life changing. I hated what he did and how he verbally and mentally attacked her. Naturally I had and still at age 54 carry the cognitive distortions from it. Placing the meat of the situation aside I loved my dad! So I was compelled to redefine love to fit my life. I loved him but I couldn't love or approve what he did to our family. Let's take witchcraft and demonology. Parents who live for their kids yet will allow them to indulge in demon and devil summoning games sold st Walmart, Walgreens, Amazon, Disney and the like. I've had several agree to disagree debates with "Christian" mothers who see no harm because it's only a game and they're covered by the blood of Jesus. Really? We live in a time where ppl are given free reign to rewrite the meanings of the gospel, twist and contort it the way of the serpent and thanks to so much "accurate" information out there (being feciscious) and this whole tribal deal ppl feel no conviction anymore. I left the homosexual lifestyle years ago very slowly taking notes. I can now see where my wires were crossed. I can also know now that like a baby I am waddling into the arms of my heavenly father. I may fall in other ways but I get up again with his help alone. I have come to recognize it was never man I questioned the authority of. It was God! I wanted things the way I saw fit. Doesn't work that way I've learned. He is the potter. The creator. The Master Teacher. You and I both know as @mikewinger stated about plumbing, what needs to be done to not have a disaster on the sheets let's keep it real. I do get the needing and deserving love ideology. I've spent many years even when I was actively homosexual feeling lonely and accepting a superficial kind of love from fakes who behind closed doors were as sad and lonely as I was and they had partners. Can also happen to the hetero. I know. But I say this to say I never thought God could replace the void in me by way of Holy Spirit the way he has! But it took me turning over complete control to him v. manipulating and controlling how I thought and felt it should be. I don't call myself hetero nor do I call myself homo. I follow Jesus and don't act on fleeting arousal or attraction in the same way I say no to drugs when the thought or vision pops up. It becomes easy. Bottom line is I have been there done that in stretching, kneading and rolling out the dough where love is concerned and the one of 3 types of love that's greatest and most substantial to me is agape love for the father in the north heaven. I may not understand why I can't engage in physical same sex attraction now in this life fully, but I do know I can love my brothers and sisters without having the need to love the men erotically. This is where I agree love is love. I seek a higher love. A love not defined by carnal love. The love Jesus prescribes.
@Simon Botte I disagree. Weeding out true Christians from false Christians is now the narrative of weighing a Christian's actions on how they treat active homosexual behavior? It feels like you have conveniently made it the LAW to gauge others or judge if you will how Christian they are by how they treat a lgbt ssa person. Meanwhile, there are many nuances in a person's behavior and actions that have nothing to do with sexuality that can leave a bad taste in someone's mouth. What often happens is by default the LGBT like the black community playing on the race card when faced with a situation that may have had zero to do with race e.g laws or common etiquette. This victimhood environment created by radicals leaves little ro be desired. I'm a black former practicing homosexual former drug user, former new ager and practitioner of the occult, you name it I've done it. I thought not casting dark spells, only white magick I was spreading, love. Yet another cognitive distortion but not in God's eyes. I consulted a medium when my mother was on her deathbed. Wonderful man he was. Very concise and on point. No harm right? No. Wrong in God's eyes. I can't cherry pick Romans, Corinthians, Leviticus if you want to go backwards and so on. What is love? The definition easily loses its meaning generally defined by emotions and experiences. I want to know what love is by God's true definition. God is unchangeable. His word needn't be evolved to fit the god of this world and his motif operandi. The enemy is millions of years more clever and capable of shifting the truth by .00000000001 degrees from the truth while having it not fall under repentant sin leading ppl to believe in their hearts no harm no foul.
I disagree with the statement that married love is the same as brotherly love, because a marriage is a special intimate relationship, that is different from friendship type of love, or else there wouldn't be the idea of eros, which you don't have with brotherly love, which is philao.
God defines love, not us. Our hearts are inherently wicked and sexual immorality is born from the heart.(Mark 7:21, Jeremiah 17:9, etc). Our job is to trust Yeshua and pray the Spirit of Truth changes our hearts to conform to His ways and desires.
Even as an Orthodox Jew I agree with a lot of what was said here. It _does seem,_ however, that it's important to emphasize the role of physical intimacy as a key ingredient of (marital) love, which is what separates that unique type of love from the type experienced with every person that you know (children, parents, siblings, good friends, etc...). In other words, marital love is unique to all other types of love, which is why the Torah refers to it as "knowing," a term not used in any other instance of love. Now that I think of it, that seems to be one valid way of understanding all of the prohibitions in Leviticus 18:6-22. It's permitted to love all types of people, but it is forbidden to "know" them.
That’s right what he’s doing. Conclusion: Amazing! Just one single book spreading hate speech and justifying the worst human actions all over the world since centuries, wether we like it or not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I gotta say, I don't think this is going to accomplish much with the gay community. "Do they make sacrifices for each other?" "Yes, they do." "Oh. Well... um... I don't believe you."
@@genericrace1215 Lgbtq is lust or perversion or both. Either way, it isn't love. God is love. God condemns homosexuality. So it can't possibly be love
The stats show that the amount of self sacrificing that is happening in that community is very low. If you look at domestic abuse rates or fidelity rates you will see what I mean. Some in that community and great and seem to be selfless people. I am a fan of this commentator named Dave Rubin that seems to have real love. That being said, plugs are meant to going into outlets, 2 plugs just doesn't work logistically. No amount of love can alter those logistical problems.
I love both men and women, because both are beautiful. Straight and gay people should be treated the same. They are both beautiful. I don’t give two shits about homophobia because gay people are still people.
Don't you think gay people have already tried to pray the gay away. People try to "change" who they are just to please religious people. Well I've seen my share of gay people trying to change and getting married to the opposite sex and having children, suppressing their sexuality, only to end up divorcing and going back to who they always were. I think some people like you mean well, but people can't change sexuality, just ask a non biased psychiatrist. Straight people can't change to gay and vice versa. God Bless all
I have at my disposal an excerpt from a journal of published and peer reviewed articles on homosexuality , where a man came in for treatment for social awkwardness...he declared that he was gay , and he was fine with his sexual identity. In administering some anti-depressants , this person found himself more able to speak in public and communicate socially without blushing and sweating...and he also began to enjoy the company of women. He even started to find them attractive and he began dating them. He lost his same sex attraction completely. So YES people can change their sexual identity...and NO it is not genetic . As far as psychiatry goes ...I also have it on record that the American Psychiatric Association was taken over in a co-ordinated effort by gay psychiatrists who were leaders of the APA and an outside activist group the National Gay task Force , in 1973 . Their purpose was to take over a social institution considered to be "authoritative " by society, and then use it as a platform for normalizing homosexuality . Most psychiatrists at the time did not agree that homosexuality was normal . Later , a bunch of them split off and formed NARTH where they specialize in treating homosexual men who do not want their same sex attraction.
@@markanthony3275 There's a spectrum of sexuality on the Kinsey scale. A number of people are 100% straight or 100% gay and some are all over the board. My Question to you is, do you think you could turn gay yourself and one day fall in love with a man??? Could you change your sexual orientation? I'm guessing no on that one. That guy called himself "gay" but probably always liked women too and didn't want to admit it to himself.
@@medicalmannn No...the source of everything was his social shyness and inhibition...which made interactions with women very nerve wracking. So he found it much easier to be a passive and receptive participant in homosexual relationships instead because he could avoid the severe anxiety of courtship. The point of mentioning this , is to point out that the driving force behind same sex attraction is to engage in a self soothing behaviour , namely the endorphins released from orgasm. So in this patients case , when anti-depressants overcame his nervousness , he no longer had to resort to the self soothing homosexual behaviour . I leave you with a quote from the place where this research was discussed " Troublesome fears seem more common to homosexual than heterosexual men. One young man reported ...a fear...about not going fast enough for the driver he saw behind him...Another said " I've got this fear of tall bridges or tall freeway overpasses . I get worried I might pass out ..." Another client said , " I have this phobia with the phone..." One frequently found fear ...is what gay men call " pee shy " , that is having difficulty urinating in public restrooms...Of seven men I've seen who reported this problem , six were homosexual. (Nicolosi , " Reparative Therapy, pp. 100-101). This quote was found in " Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth" by Dr. Jeffrey Satinover pg 191.
@@markanthony3275 So he chose to go for men because of his social shyness etc....? OMG That dude has a Hell of a lot more issues than sexual orientation..
@@medicalmannn The reason this research appeared in Dr. Satinover's book is not to show that homosexuals will loose their same sex attraction by taking anti-depressants , because as you correctly expressed it " he had other problems" which made a "homosexual option " the easiest . He was not in fact a homosexual . The point is to illustrate that in like manner , people who are homosexuals , are individuals who have in common , a higher than average anxiety response to any given stimulus ( and anxieties from their perceptions of familial rejection and peer rejection)...so the whole point of engaging in sex with other men , is because they are after the powerful endorphins released from orgasm. Thus their sexuality is the " self soothing behaviour" in response to their anxiety. What proves this to be the case is that as with any addiction , those endorphins lose their soothing ability, usually at the point where a homosexual is already having multiple sexual partners every week to increase the supply. That's when they add to these by adding more risk to heighten excitement, and even adding violence . When that fails , and inevitably it will , they add drugs and alcohol ...and they often develop multiple addictions ." According to the National Gay-Lesbian Health Foundation , drug and alcohol problems are three times greater among homosexuals than among heterosexuals. " (information from " Gays are More Prone to Substance Abuse " , Insight , 5 November 1990 ...as included in "Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth" pg 195 , by Dr. Jeffrey Satinover ).
I really liked this video and how you explained what love actually is...but what I disagree with was with the beginning of your video where you said that gay movement or pro-gay movement understand (in your opinion) love to mean "intensity of emotions and desires". Why do you say that only gay people would understand love that way?And as if they were not capable of understanding it in any other way? After listening your video I would say that most of the people would understand or define love the way you mentioned first and that most of us would benefit to stop and think (and listen in this case) what love actually is. It can be and mean many things to different people regardless of their sexual orientation.
I think the way he spoke about adultery -also_ conveyed that the people involved are being motivated by intense emotions and lust. In other words, it's relevant to both heterosexuals and homosexuals.
You are both correct IMO. I believe it is absolutely possible for gay couples to feel the kind of love that Pastor Mike goes on to describe. Not all feel it, but the same can be said for hetero couples. If you're using this argument, all a gay person or gay supporter has to do is say, "Yes, the couple in question feel this way about each other," and your argument is useless. Pastor Mike isn't wrong in what he's saying, but this is not a useful argument for today's society.
I don't really see why the type of love you describe should be reserved only for straight couples. You keep calling homosexuality a sin and seem to tie it to marital infidelity. Why? Do you just assume that gay people can't possibly feel romantic love for each other but that it can only be sexual? And that somehow means they intend to destroy other people's marriages or something?
Pity English is not like the Greek language here (including in the NT). They might eros each other but do they philia, storge or agape each other? Eros is different from the other loves in that it's a way of loving oneself by getting confirmation through the other. The other loves are about benefitting the other person, not yourself. If the other loves can be claimed, then fine; but even they themselves do not vindicate immoral eroticism per se.
@@noblerose752 Everybody discriminates against something. It's a part of human nature. You discriminate the idea of people not supporting homosexuality.
@@jordigutierrez4161 I think he was being sarcastic. I think he was making fun of the idea that somehow we're discriminating against people by disciminating against lifestyle choices.
the thing is they are consenting adults who most likely don't believe in your sky daddy fairytales and don't care if they're "committing" what you believe is a sin. if you think it is, then don't have gay sex. but leave other people alone ffs
@@mr.d.572 we're fighting for our right to exist, so no we won't leave "the rest of society" alone. mind you, most of civilized society supports us. and we're fighting for lgbtq children as well.
@@queen_elizabeth Hyperbole and drama are the reality you live in, not the real world. Well then don't be surprised when we fight against you for trying to groom our children. They are not born the way you claim they are, you are trying to make them that way deliberately which is unconscionable.
@@mr.d.572 y'all are the ones grooming lgbtq children. yes, there are lgbtq children whether you like it or not and we will keep fighting for them. you cannot change one's sexuality, that's not how it works.
@@queen_elizabeth You're delusional. You're deliberately trying to convert innocent children by confusing them with things they have not the capacity to understand. That makes you a predator. Predators will be fought against.
Talking about "not belonging". We use penis and vagina to urinate. Doesn't stop anyone from having sex, does it? You can do the same with your anus. The only thing is, just like with the penis and vagina, wash it first! 😉 It's mindboggling how ignorant people aren't able to understand that our organs have more than one function. You are like a lazy middle school student who reads the first sentence from every paragraph and skips the rest. 🤦♂️
@@SergeDuka The thing is, not just urine naturally passes through the urethra - so obviously there are more than two functions. However, only one type of thing (waste material or gasses) passes the through anus and it is supposed to go out - that is an indication that it only has one biological purpose. If you choose to do more with it, that's your choice. But just because you can doesn't mean you should.
@@dandup570 Just because you don’t use anus any other way, doesn’t mean other humans shouldn’t either. Besides, feeling from stimulation of the prostate can be compared to female orgasm. Try it. 😉 And I don’t know a single scientist who would claim that this is a mere coincidence that our prostate can be stimulated this way while being accessible only via anal penetration and conveniently placed a couple of inches away from the entry point. Anal sex among males is a part of our nature as a social species. Read the books!
@@SergeDuka It's not meant for that. If you know anything about studies done on negative effects of anal-sex, you'll know there are massive risks that far exceed the risks of normal sex (do know how HIV/AIDS became such an issue?). Using something outside its natural functions is comparable to modifying a car's engine with parts it was not designed to have. It might make the car faster, but it is not good for the longevity of the car. Stimulation it doesn't make it healthy. Some would say pornography is stimulating - but fail to acknowledge how disruptive, destructive and addictive it is. Drugs stimulate a person's brain. So what? That doesn't make it good for you. Also, stimulation does not equate to appropriate use. (I also don't see how anal sex has anything to do with being social. I also doubt that it is as common as you think - and even if it was, it doesn't make it good for the well-being of society. Large groups of people often do stupid things as they basically feed off each other's lack of inhibitions)
When I look my beautiful wife in the eyes, I see nothing but love. I see the life we've made together, the hardships we've shared, the sacrifices we've made for each other, the happiness we've brought to each other. When I hold her in my arms I feel like we share a spirit. When I watch her hum while she cooks or the way she laughs at my dumb jokes, watching her fall asleep beside me, kissing her good morning...when I experience these things, there is no doubt in my heart or in my soul that we are connected for eternity by love. And I will be damned if some preachy shmuck on a podium gets to tell _me_ what love is. Have a good day.
Hi Mike, I think you should consider to create videos for Prager University. Your values are so in harmony with theirs. Through them, a lot more people can hear your voice and the biblical truth.
I like the videos I have seen from Prager U and I have really appreciated Dennis Prager's radio program. I would love the chance to do that if it ever arose!
+Mike Winger The way you clarify complex and controversial issues is so amazing. And I'm pretty sure it's gonna be even better with the support of Prager U's cool animations.
My animations are pretty pathetic. Haha. I hope to conscript some help for that in the future. Based on your recommendation I will send a note to Prager U. We will see what happens and if God is in it, His will be done.
Yes, when I have a crush on someone from the same sex, I want to spend my life with him, I want to die with him, I want to laugh with him, I want to cry with him, I want to be old complaining about how it was better when we were young with him, I want to see the world with him, I want to stay at home with him, I want to care for him when he’s sick, I want to have kids with him, i want to wake up with him, I want to fall asleep with him, I want to lay on the sofa with him on a warm summer afternoon, i want to keep him warm on a cold winter night, I want to call him my love... And now I ask you, what are your arguments for real loving relationships between people from the opposite sex?
@@the1polarbearfj336 not necessarily, I’m just saying that a gay relationship is about more than the physical attraction towards one another. It’s also about the romantic attraction.
This is such a bigoted argument. I could ask a straight couple what *their* definition of love is (love, at the end of the day, has many definitions because people express love in different ways), and they could say the same thing about the intensity of emotions. Would you also refute and invalidate all heterosexual couples, only because of what they said that magically represented all the heterosexuals in the world? You've got to be kidding me.
a dank lord Your argument is incorrect because you're just falsley assuming being homosexual is equivalent to being heterosexual while ignoring the reason behind the question. Heterosexuality is a biological and social norm hence, there is no need for justification or question since it is the foundation of a growing and prospering society. On the other hand homosexuals are trying to justify gay rights or gay marriage in the name of love hence its only valid to question what they mean. Love is subjective and using it to justify a sexual behaviour is nothing but sugar coating. I can justify pedophilia in the name of love but you wouldn't accept it now because it hasn't been financially backed up with enough brainwashing and propaganda as homosexuality.
@@alexalam8364 So on the Autism spectrum where did your doctor say that you placed? Pedophilia is a philia: a fetish. There is no possible love between and adult and a child. Just as there is no love between a man and a foot, or a woman and a dildo, or a person and a whip. Sexuality involves love. Philia is just sexual arousal. Your argument crumbles on its self with only the least amount of effort put into thought and actually defining the words you use.
Your argument is terrible. Many gay people love each other ... more than what many true Christians love their spouses and children. Many gay people make sacrifices for each other.
@@mr.d.572 yes I know Jesus said “if you love me you will obey me”. How awful is that !!!! . I love people and don’t have to obey them . Anyway, the ancient authors of the bible have no right to dictate what love is to us all through out time. Christians don’t get to dictate their notions of love based on ancient text , to the rest of us .we know better
@@jerichosharman470 You're just rejecting God and trying to live without him. And the Bible says that will have very dire consequences for you in the end. That's what it boils down to.
@@mr.d.572 who told you that bs? Did you just make it up on the spot or do Christian’s tell you to think that ? Did Jesus tell you to troll TH-cam and hurl bs at people?
You do realize that there is no choice when it comes to sexual attraction. Imagine what it would be like if you were told that being attracted to the opposite sex is wrong. You need to abstain from any type of a loving relationship with the opposite sex. What kind of damage do you think it would cause you growing up? Think about it. I came to the understanding that it is not wrong to be a homosexual. It isn't dirty, or a sin no matter what your infallible book might say. It just tells me that your infallible book is wrong just like it is wrong on so many other things. Maybe that's one of the reasons folks are leaving the church. You are wrong and will never admit it.
Circular argument, based entirely and solely on a very specifically Christian vision (absolutely not natural), and which basically only serves to justify your deep contempt for homosexual people.
LMAO! He just refuted "But they LOVE each other" for heterosexuals as well. Are there any differences between gay and straight relationships? YES and NO. In human terms a loving relationship is similar across the spectrum of sexualities. Most human beings regardless of orientation need/want to love and feel loved, to matter to someone special, to have regular and predictable companionship, to have a reliable sexual outlet and to build a life together based on mutual respect and understanding with shared goals and common interests. The culture, as well, puts pressure on individuals to couple and form units and families. As members of humanity and the socio/cultural fabric it is no different for GLBT persons. GLBT persons have unique challenges and may bring unique resources to their loving relationships that are not shared by heterosexual couples. The social, cultural, legal and sometimes familial supports for our relationships are at best lacking or weak and at worst destructive. Efforts to change the culture and enact legal supports have made some progress but there is also great resistance to, for example, gay marriage. Many GLBT couples date and live invisibly or in the shadows and their concern over discovery or being obvious limits spontaneous affectionate/dating behavior and is stressful to a relationship. The usual times when young adults are learning how to couple, date, and sort out their feelings about sex and sexual activity occurs in mid to late teens and early adulthood; in high school and perhaps college. Because GLBT youth are often hidden and/or just beginning to come to terms with their own identity their learning curve in the dating department is delayed and often put off to later, producing a disadvantage regarding acquired dating skills. The increasing presence of Gay/Straight Alliances and Cultural Diversity Groups on high school campuses has the potential to normalize the presence of GLBT youth in high schools and ultimately reduce the pressure to hide and be invisible. In that atmosphere GLBT youth dating is more possible.
Men in relationships, whether gay or straight tend to operate out of learned male role behavior. Competitiveness, power/dominance, discomfort/unfamiliarity with being emotionally intimate and/or vulnerable, the over exaggerated need to save face and pride, the need to control, limited negotiation/verbal skills, need to maintain a sense of independence all can interfere with becoming the necessary we/us in relationships. Even male language, top/bottom, dominant/submissive, etc., is indicative of classic male role-playing behavior. So imagine putting two men together with these dynamics and you often get the typical male complaint, “I just can’t seem to find someone who wants to commit.” The problem may not be so much a lack of the desire to commit but more lack of familiarity or practice with the skill set needed to make it work. Men have more difficulty moving from the me/I position to the we/us position. Women generally possess better verbal/negotiation skills than men. They affiliate more naturally and are less needful of being dominant or independent. These attributes/skills often lead to relative ease with relationship formation. The lesbian joke is, “She came to the first date with a U-Haul!” Women in the general culture are also more stigmatized for being uncoupled and hence are more burdened by pressure to couple. In women’s relationships these factors can make managing differences and tolerating conflict more difficult. So for women allowing for and not being threatened by the I/me issues as the couple moves from the we/us stage to the me/you/us/we stage of relationship can be taxing. Along with special challenges GLBT individuals can and do bring unique resources to their relationships. Growing up marginalized and figuring out how to cope and adapt to often non-supportive environments can result in creative flexibility and adaptability in the personality. Survival requires learning how to size up a situation to know how to behave. These skills are also useful in relationships when they translate to sensitivity to the other person and adaptability to new or unfamiliar situations. After all, at the end of the day, a relationship is the successful blending of two unique individuals into one unique relationship that affirms the individuality and the coupled-ness of both people.
Behr Smith Your argument is incorrect because you just like another user are just falsley assuming being homosexual is equivalent to being heterosexual while ignoring the reason behind the question. Heterosexuality is a biological and social norm hence, there is no need for justification or question since it is the foundation of a growing and prospering society. On the other hand homosexuals are trying to justify gay rights or gay marriage in the name of love hence its only valid to question what they mean. Love is subjective and using it to justify a sexual behaviour is nothing but sugar coating. I can justify pedophilia in the name of love but you wouldn't accept it now because it hasn't been financially backed up with enough brainwashing and propaganda as homosexuality.
Excellent definition of love, Pastor Mike. Love = self sacrifice for the benefit of others. That also fits great with what Jesus said, Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him DENY HIMSELF (self sacrifice), and take up his cross, and follow Me. NKJV The cross is the ultimate symbol of self sacrifice.
Yeah, we can apply it to everything. That is the point. We must not confuse the "intense emotions" with real love in every aspect of life. True love is loving God more than anything or anyone
@@avalancha2234 riveting. So now, only people who believe in Jesus Christ know what love is. I'm wondering what you'd do if God asked you to sacrifice your favourite person to him as an offering (be it your kid, parent, best friend, significant other), since you love God more than anything.
@@Michelle-lu7yt You do not need to be a christian to understand true love. If the christian narrative is true, Jesus' death in the cross is the perfect definition of love. Us being worthy of God's punishment, but He, deciding to have mercy and punish his Son for us. Complete selfesness, humility, showed in the person of Jesus. Should not we do that too? I am not claiming I am perfect of course, If God for some reason told me to do that, I would not know what to do. But I know he would never ask me to do that. When Abraham was told to kill his son, God did not let that happen, because God provided a sacrifice. Not the goat that appeared at that moment, but His Son in the cross is the sacrifice that was provided for our sins and yours.
The real world does not revolve around the teachings of ancient people who lived in different times, in different civilizations, with different values and mores. In the real world, mores evolve and change. People believe different things, different gods, and no gods. How dare you say that the love I feel for my partner is any less the love that you feel for your wife. Yes, I would sacrifice for my partner. Sacrifice is part of living together peacefully and we've been together for over 20 years. Please don't presume to know something that you don't know. If you wish to live your life according to an ancient book that you obviously misunderstand, that's fine, but don't tell others that their love is not real simply because it doesn't fit within your narrow definition.
+Phyllis Sophical Phyllis, I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my video. I'm commenting because I think you've misunderstood my point. Please let me explain because I'm not saying what you think. It's not as though I think that two gay people can't love each other. This is part of a larger 4 part series where I dealt with this issue in great detail first analyzing the old testament passages then the new testament, then asking what science and reason say and finally dealing with pro-gay slogans and offering a secular case against homosexual behavior (notice that doesn't mean a secular case against homosexuals). My point in this little snippet is that "love" doesn't make otherwise bad things good. I think you would probably agree with that in principle but disagree when it is applied to homosexual acts. I don't think you have no love toward your partner, I think that the part of the relationship where you have sexual relations is not love in the biblical sense. Maybe you don't care about the Bible or what it says, fine. But please don't think that I'm saying something so silly as "my love is better than yours". You accuse me of not understanding the Bible... for that I encourage you to listen to the first two messages in the series "Homosexuality: speaking the truth in love". You also claim that morals change and that the Bible doesn't apply today because of societal change. For this I encourage you to watch the very last video in the series. Phyllis, I care about you and your partner and I wish for the best for both of you. I'm sure you have had countless acts of love toward each other so please don't mistake me for saying what you thought. I think this issue is very confusing and I want to take the time to clarify what I mean and make it clear that this is NOT some sort of bigotry or hatred on my part. Please take the time to consider what I've said and I look forward to your response. Mike
Thank you for your reply. I have started to watch your series and I'm taking notes. I will get back to you when I'm finished. I'm only 21 minutes into part 1 of the series and I already disagree with you on almost every point, so this should be interesting. Would you like me to comment in the comment section of every video or reply to everything on this video here?Mike Winger
1. Stop being prejudiced towards ancient people. You're being a hypocrite. 2. No he did not misunderstand it. 3. It doesn't matter what someone feels if the Bible is the truth.
Scripture also says love is the fulfillment of the Law. If you truly "love your neighbor as yourself", you WOULD NOT murder, steal, bear false witness, commit adultery, or even covet your neighbor's spouse or things. And by extension, you WOULD NOT be engaging in immoral sexual behavior with your neighbor. And you WOULD NOT encourage people to live that kind of life if you're desiring them to become Christian. In the book of Ezekiel, God equates the prophet's role to that of a watchman. If he sees the enemy heading for the people and he warns them but they refuse to take heed to the warning, ONLY THEY will perish. However, if the watchman sees the enemy coming but does not warn the people of that danger, they will perish, BUT the watchman will be held responsible for their blood. Similarily, if a Christian warns a person to turn away from their sin but they refuse to take heed to that warning, only that person who refuses to take heed will perish. However, if a Christian does not warn a person to turn away from their sin, the other person will perish, but God will hold that Christian responsible for not warning them. To warn somebody that they're heading for danger (in this case, eternal separation from God) is the most loving thing a Christian can do, and that's what Christians are encouraged to do, for God does not desire for even the little ones to perish, but for all to come to repentance and be saved.
If your religion makes you less tolerant and loving towards people who aren't like you (homosexuals), you need to seriously take a look at yourself and your worldview. And don't give me any of the "hate the sin, love the sinner" excuses. Telling someone they lead a sinful life and it will lead them to eternal damnation is harassment and morally reprehensible.
Ignoring eternal damnation, tolerance is one of those things that needs to be exercised in measure. Too much tolerance can allow for detrimental and dangerous things to occur, so it's that not _intolerance_ is necessarily bad, it's that _mistreating people_ for disagreeing with them that's bad. I'm an Orthodox Jew so I don't believe in binary eternal damnation, although I do believe in the reality of sin.
@@hashemisbeautiful6615 would you have an example of a detrimental and dangerous thing that would occur if people stopped being intolerant of gay people?
@@levijoe7920 In the big picture it may accustom people, or make them feel pressure to, accept other forms of currently opposed sexual preferences. This has already begun happening on the front of the sexualization of youth, especially girls. The scariest thing is that it seems to have public appeal on the internet.
@@hashemisbeautiful6615 Sexual orientation and the sexualization of youth have nothing to do with one another except for the "taboo" aspect. The only reason homosexuality is seen as taboo is because of religion. The sexualization of our youth can be judged in the absence of religion. Just because something like marijuana is legalized doesn't mean everyone is going to feel bad that meth isn't legal.
@@levijoe7920 Every time I leave a response to this comment, it gets automatically deleted. Sorry, I guess I can't respond. Too bad, I thought it was sensible enough.
Temptations are part of human nature. However, not everyone should act upon every temptation they have. Part of being righteous is to abstain from certain temptations. One temptation that some people have is the want to engage in gay sex. The feeling itself isn't inherently bad, its the acting upon it part that is. Don't be fooled though, straight people also have sexual temptations they should'nt act upon.
@@apracity7672 but you realize by say this your saying homosexuality is just some feeling a person can turn on and off and your completely wrong why should someone be unhappy and live a life they would hate and no be them self just to please religion or religious people it’s not fair
@@dhatkrazzikidd101 I think you misunderstood what I said, I never talked about an on and off switch. Also, it seems that you're saying someone who doesn't have sex hates their life and is miserable. Do you think all non-married single people who aren't having sex are living miserable lives? I've read many gay testimonies of people who came to Christ and all of them are happy. Another very important point is that you act like only gay people can't have sex. Pre-marital sex is bad for both gays and straight people. Lastly, you talk about wanting to please "religion" or "religious people". Serving Christ has nothing to do with pleasing "religion" or "religious people", its about following Christ, no one else. Just so you know, I grew up in an agnostic household, and at the age of 19, after many years of looking for the truth and after reading the New Testament, it became clear that Jesus was really who he claimed to be. Hopefully, you come to Christ too, some day.
Dogs can't give consent. They might love you and show that by following you everywhere , but they don't have the ability to give vocal consent and no woof woof isn't good enough.
Orwelian would be the case if christians impose it on others. We do not. God will be judge not us christians. If they do judge, they havent understood the essence of the teachings of jesus. Jesus hates sin but loves sinners. So just like you expect christians to not impose their views on open society, we also ask you to accept that we have our biblical views. That is tolerance. It goes both ways. Btw tolerance comes from the greek word tolerar which means to carry a burden. We need to carry the burden of differences between us in open society, as in we need to learn to deal with opposing views without looking down at each other or ceasing to remain friends.
@@coachtimo dude, if you think God is a man and somehow three people in one, that's your thing. Pray to whatever Zues you feel like. But Mike clearly has a different idea of love then I do. My idea of love would be to spend my life with someone who helps me through life, his idea would be to bare me from my husband because a book told him to
@@ablethreefourbravo Don't worry I do. I know that this guy would look at a loving, committed, stable relationship between two men as not loving because the Bible said so. The human mind has an amazing ability to reject apparent reality because of ideological conditioning. Such as in the case of seeing 4 fingers but believing theirs five
Hyrulean, you only believe that because its what you've been told your whole life. Problem is... the world does not know what love really is. You have gotten your definition mainly from people who do not understand what love really is. Or they have also been fed a wrong definition all their lives also. That feeling people get is admiration, desire, longing, etc.... Love is the action... It is a self-sacrifice for the sake of another. Yes, certain feelings motivate us to the acts of love, BUT God wants us to love others EVEN WHEN we don't FEEL LIKE IT.
In this human world, is there really such a thing as absolute truth? Is there really something out there we can grab a hold of and know without a shadow of a doubt its true? A huge part of me believes there is.
He is right about one thing. It's not the biblical definition of love. The biblical definition of love is if you rape a woman you have to marry her and make sure she keeps her mouth shut in church.
@@addy01001 That is correct. Everyone is bigoted against something. It's a part of human nature. You're bigoted against your very broad scope of what constitutes a "homophobe."
@@addy01001 What I'm saying is, you're bigoted against your broad definition of what a "homophobe" is. And I'm also saying to have an opinion and be unsupportive of other opinions or lifestyles is to be bigoted. It goes both ways.
If you are unaware of the self-sacrificial love of gays for each other, you know nothing about gay love. You should rightly just sit down and be quiet until you can learn something.
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From a Christian worldview, your arguments make complete sense. Most people who make that statement however, don't see the issue from a committed Christian worldview.
This is the crux of the issue, they see things from a materialistic atheist perspective so to them sex and love are nothing more than bodily functions and brain chemistry. From that limited angle it's hard to see an issue with homosexuality, as well as plenty of other things.
Exactly. To them, there is no greater love than their definition of it. Totally twisted. Only by the Spirit can they be convinced of this because honestly
well that is ok , they are not Christians , they are not the elect , they are free to believe anything they want , they are free to choose death over life , they are free to shun heaven and end up outside , a place we call hell , it's all their choice
How ironic is it that before the video started an ad about a gay man consulting an astrologer came on?
I think our English word for love means too many things to different people. The Greeks have 3 words for love: eros, philos and agape which explains it better. You explained it really well because love isn't about feelings its about sacrifice. It is an action of sacrifice. There is feelings involved but its not the true definition. I really think the opposite of love isn't hate its selfishness.
This is a very good point.
Love your teachings! Please keep posting Mike.
+9pt9 Thank you! I will!
Your comment makes no sense in the context of this video. If you watched the video you'd realize Mike teaches the Truth in love.
Jesus/God "never ever condemned homosexuality nor ssm."
Perhaps you've never read Matthew 19:4-6 where Jesus affirms the parameters of not only sex but marriage as well, any other combination therefore is indeed sin. Those who have same sex attraction have to practice SELF-DENIAL just as those who have attraction to the opposite sex there are no exceptions.
@Simon Botte Jesus never condemned beastialty or pedophilia either and I promise you there are those who will stand firm to state their case and justify why they are as close to a 4 legged creature or a child.
@Simon Botte the new buzz phrase "Love is Love" just doesn't work in the Kingdom of God Yahua, Yahweh, I Am that I Am, Yeshuah. I loved my dad dearly and deeply as a child before he died. I was 10. Just prior he would beat my mom terribly and regularly cops involved. I was there all the times and as an 8 year old it was and would be to anybody, life changing. I hated what he did and how he verbally and mentally attacked her. Naturally I had and still at age 54 carry the cognitive distortions from it. Placing the meat of the situation aside I loved my dad! So I was compelled to redefine love to fit my life. I loved him but I couldn't love or approve what he did to our family. Let's take witchcraft and demonology. Parents who live for their kids yet will allow them to indulge in demon and devil summoning games sold st Walmart, Walgreens, Amazon, Disney and the like. I've had several agree to disagree debates with "Christian" mothers who see no harm because it's only a game and they're covered by the blood of Jesus. Really? We live in a time where ppl are given free reign to rewrite the meanings of the gospel, twist and contort it the way of the serpent and thanks to so much "accurate" information out there (being feciscious) and this whole tribal deal ppl feel no conviction anymore. I left the homosexual lifestyle years ago very slowly taking notes. I can now see where my wires were crossed. I can also know now that like a baby I am waddling into the arms of my heavenly father. I may fall in other ways but I get up again with his help alone. I have come to recognize it was never man I questioned the authority of. It was God! I wanted things the way I saw fit. Doesn't work that way I've learned. He is the potter. The creator. The Master Teacher. You and I both know as @mikewinger stated about plumbing, what needs to be done to not have a disaster on the sheets let's keep it real. I do get the needing and deserving love ideology. I've spent many years even when I was actively homosexual feeling lonely and accepting a superficial kind of love from fakes who behind closed doors were as sad and lonely as I was and they had partners. Can also happen to the hetero. I know. But I say this to say I never thought God could replace the void in me by way of Holy Spirit the way he has! But it took me turning over complete control to him v. manipulating and controlling how I thought and felt it should be. I don't call myself hetero nor do I call myself homo. I follow Jesus and don't act on fleeting arousal or attraction in the same way I say no to drugs when the thought or vision pops up. It becomes easy. Bottom line is I have been there done that in stretching, kneading and rolling out the dough where love is concerned and the one of 3 types of love that's greatest and most substantial to me is agape love for the father in the north heaven. I may not understand why I can't engage in physical same sex attraction now in this life fully, but I do know I can love my brothers and sisters without having the need to love the men erotically. This is where I agree love is love. I seek a higher love. A love not defined by carnal love. The love Jesus prescribes.
@Simon Botte I disagree. Weeding out true Christians from false Christians is now the narrative of weighing a Christian's actions on how they treat active homosexual behavior? It feels like you have conveniently made it the LAW to gauge others or judge if you will how Christian they are by how they treat a lgbt ssa person. Meanwhile, there are many nuances in a person's behavior and actions that have nothing to do with sexuality that can leave a bad taste in someone's mouth. What often happens is by default the LGBT like the black community playing on the race card when faced with a situation that may have had zero to do with race e.g laws or common etiquette. This victimhood environment created by radicals leaves little ro be desired. I'm a black former practicing homosexual former drug user, former new ager and practitioner of the occult, you name it I've done it. I thought not casting dark spells, only white magick I was spreading, love. Yet another cognitive distortion but not in God's eyes. I consulted a medium when my mother was on her deathbed. Wonderful man he was. Very concise and on point. No harm right? No. Wrong in God's eyes. I can't cherry pick Romans, Corinthians, Leviticus if you want to go backwards and so on. What is love? The definition easily loses its meaning generally defined by emotions and experiences. I want to know what love is by God's true definition. God is unchangeable. His word needn't be evolved to fit the god of this world and his motif operandi. The enemy is millions of years more clever and capable of shifting the truth by .00000000001 degrees from the truth while having it not fall under repentant sin leading ppl to believe in their hearts no harm no foul.
"that's not love, its just desire"
I disagree with the statement that
married love is the same as brotherly love, because a marriage
is a special intimate relationship,
that is different from friendship
type of love, or else there wouldn't
be the idea of eros, which you
don't have with brotherly love,
which is philao.
God defines love, not us. Our hearts are inherently wicked and sexual immorality is born from the heart.(Mark 7:21, Jeremiah 17:9, etc). Our job is to trust Yeshua and pray the Spirit of Truth changes our hearts to conform to His ways and desires.
Jesus and the Hebrew Bible ARE NOT the same! G-d will judge you for following a false messiah
@@David-le1or False? Jesus is the prophecy fulfiller and the son of God. God said it himself
Amen 🙏 ❤
Your videos are Salt and Light Mike, big thumbs up!!!
Inserting body parts in places they don't belong. What a poet .
I usually stick an arm up my bellybutton idk bout other gays tho. Yall wanna tell me?
Even as an Orthodox Jew I agree with a lot of what was said here. It _does seem,_ however, that it's important to emphasize the role of physical intimacy as a key ingredient of (marital) love, which is what separates that unique type of love from the type experienced with every person that you know (children, parents, siblings, good friends, etc...). In other words, marital love is unique to all other types of love, which is why the Torah refers to it as "knowing," a term not used in any other instance of love.
Now that I think of it, that seems to be one valid way of understanding all of the prohibitions in Leviticus 18:6-22. It's permitted to love all types of people, but it is forbidden to "know" them.
Traitor
@@David-le1or How am I traitor?
You know how to think thru something critically to get the answers. A lot of people don't. Thanks. Very well done.
he is just talking about the truth in the bible and it should be like that!wether we like it or not.
God is dead.
@@dasetwas1564 Darwin is dead. God is alive.
@@arielriquelme8798 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
That’s right what he’s doing. Conclusion: Amazing! Just one single book spreading hate speech and justifying the worst human actions all over the world since centuries, wether we like it or not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@dasetwas1564 if that were true, we would not be here....as God, or Jesus, is holding all things, together......
These videos are really helpful, thank you.
I want to like this video a million times. Love is so distorted in western culture today!
Just don't care about other people's lives. Unless of course, someone is being hurt. Simple.
a human yeah but they hurting themselves
@@shiararuiz5171 how are they hurting themselves??
shiara ruiz No. the only people hurting them are hate filled bigots like you
????
I gotta say, I don't think this is going to accomplish much with the gay community.
"Do they make sacrifices for each other?"
"Yes, they do."
"Oh. Well... um... I don't believe you."
lust is not love
@@genericrace1215 Lgbtq is lust or perversion or both. Either way, it isn't love. God is love. God condemns homosexuality. So it can't possibly be love
I think his argument is a little more nuanced then that.
Committing sin with each other or encouraging them to sin with you is not sacrifice.
The stats show that the amount of self sacrificing that is happening in that community is very low. If you look at domestic abuse rates or fidelity rates you will see what I mean.
Some in that community and great and seem to be selfless people. I am a fan of this commentator named Dave Rubin that seems to have real love. That being said, plugs are meant to going into outlets, 2 plugs just doesn't work logistically. No amount of love can alter those logistical problems.
Mike you so brave Apollos of Alexandria. You go go go! God bless.
I love both men and women, because both are beautiful. Straight and gay people should be treated the same. They are both beautiful. I don’t give two shits about homophobia because gay people are still people.
Don't you think gay people have already tried to pray the gay away. People try to "change" who they are just to please religious people. Well I've seen my share of gay people trying to change and getting married to the opposite sex and having children, suppressing their sexuality, only to end up divorcing and going back to who they always were. I think some people like you mean well, but people can't change sexuality, just ask a non biased psychiatrist. Straight people can't change to gay and vice versa. God Bless all
I have at my disposal an excerpt from a journal of published and peer reviewed articles on homosexuality , where a man came in for treatment for social awkwardness...he declared that he was gay , and he was fine with his sexual identity. In administering some anti-depressants , this person found himself more able to speak in public and communicate socially without blushing and sweating...and he also began to enjoy the company of women. He even started to find them attractive and he began dating them. He lost his same sex attraction completely. So YES people can change their sexual identity...and NO it is not genetic . As far as psychiatry goes ...I also have it on record that the American Psychiatric Association was taken over in a co-ordinated effort by gay psychiatrists who were leaders of the APA and an outside activist group the National Gay task Force , in 1973 . Their purpose was to take over a social institution considered to be "authoritative " by society, and then use it as a platform for normalizing homosexuality . Most psychiatrists at the time did not agree that homosexuality was normal . Later , a bunch of them split off and formed NARTH where they specialize in treating homosexual men who do not want their same sex attraction.
@@markanthony3275 There's a spectrum of sexuality on the Kinsey scale. A number of people are 100% straight or 100% gay and some are all over the board. My Question to you is, do you think you could turn gay yourself and one day fall in love with a man??? Could you change your sexual orientation? I'm guessing no on that one. That guy called himself "gay" but probably always liked women too and didn't want to admit it to himself.
@@medicalmannn No...the source of everything was his social shyness and inhibition...which made interactions with women very nerve wracking. So he found it much easier to be a passive and receptive participant in homosexual relationships instead because he could avoid the severe anxiety of courtship. The point of mentioning this , is to point out that the driving force behind same sex attraction is to engage in a self soothing behaviour , namely the endorphins released from orgasm. So in this patients case , when anti-depressants overcame his nervousness , he no longer had to resort to the self soothing homosexual behaviour . I leave you with a quote from the place where this research was discussed
" Troublesome fears seem more common to homosexual than heterosexual men. One young man reported ...a fear...about not going fast enough for the driver he saw behind him...Another said " I've got this fear of tall bridges or tall freeway overpasses . I get worried I might pass out ..." Another client said , " I have this phobia with the phone..." One frequently found fear ...is what gay men call " pee shy " , that is having difficulty urinating in public restrooms...Of seven men I've seen who reported this problem , six were homosexual. (Nicolosi , " Reparative Therapy, pp. 100-101). This quote was found in " Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth" by Dr. Jeffrey Satinover pg 191.
@@markanthony3275 So he chose to go for men because of his social shyness etc....? OMG That dude has a Hell of a lot more issues than sexual orientation..
@@medicalmannn The reason this research appeared in Dr. Satinover's book is not to show that homosexuals will loose their same sex attraction by taking anti-depressants , because as you correctly expressed it " he had other problems" which made a "homosexual option " the easiest . He was not in fact a homosexual . The point is to illustrate that in like manner , people who are homosexuals , are individuals who have in common , a higher than average anxiety response to any given stimulus ( and anxieties from their perceptions of familial rejection and peer rejection)...so the whole point of engaging in sex with other men , is because they are after the powerful endorphins released from orgasm. Thus their sexuality is the " self soothing behaviour" in response to their anxiety. What proves this to be the case is that as with any addiction , those endorphins lose their soothing ability, usually at the point where a homosexual is already having multiple sexual partners every week to increase the supply. That's when they add to these by adding more risk to heighten excitement, and even adding violence . When that fails , and inevitably it will , they add drugs and alcohol ...and they often develop multiple addictions ." According to the National Gay-Lesbian Health Foundation , drug and alcohol problems are three times greater among homosexuals than among heterosexuals. " (information from " Gays are More Prone to Substance Abuse " , Insight , 5 November 1990 ...as included in "Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth" pg 195 , by Dr. Jeffrey Satinover ).
I really liked this video and how you explained what love actually is...but what I disagree with was with the beginning of your video where you said that gay movement or pro-gay movement understand (in your opinion) love to mean "intensity of emotions and desires". Why do you say that only gay people would understand love that way?And as if they were not capable of understanding it in any other way? After listening your video I would say that most of the people would understand or define love the way you mentioned first and that most of us would benefit to stop and think (and listen in this case) what love actually is. It can be and mean many things to different people regardless of their sexual orientation.
I think the way he spoke about adultery -also_ conveyed that the people involved are being motivated by intense emotions and lust. In other words, it's relevant to both heterosexuals and homosexuals.
You are both correct IMO. I believe it is absolutely possible for gay couples to feel the kind of love that Pastor Mike goes on to describe. Not all feel it, but the same can be said for hetero couples. If you're using this argument, all a gay person or gay supporter has to do is say, "Yes, the couple in question feel this way about each other," and your argument is useless. Pastor Mike isn't wrong in what he's saying, but this is not a useful argument for today's society.
@@hashemisbeautiful6615 So like...yeah it's not really any different.
I don't really see why the type of love you describe should be reserved only for straight couples. You keep calling homosexuality a sin and seem to tie it to marital infidelity. Why? Do you just assume that gay people can't possibly feel romantic love for each other but that it can only be sexual? And that somehow means they intend to destroy other people's marriages or something?
this video is a disgrace and an insult to humanity
READ THE BIBLE!
Pity English is not like the Greek language here (including in the NT). They might eros each other but do they philia, storge or agape each other? Eros is different from the other loves in that it's a way of loving oneself by getting confirmation through the other. The other loves are about benefitting the other person, not yourself. If the other loves can be claimed, then fine; but even they themselves do not vindicate immoral eroticism per se.
Great job Mike.
Simon,that is not a gay discrimination.Its all from the Bible.We can't twist of what God's written in the bible
Russel Bayang
it doesn't matter if it's in the bible its still discrimination
@@noblerose752 if you dont let us believe what our scripture says then your religiously discriminating against us.
@@messianictruth4653 Discrimination against the majority!?!?!?!? I'm honestly ok with that fam.
@@noblerose752 Everybody discriminates against something. It's a part of human nature. You discriminate the idea of people not supporting homosexuality.
@@jordigutierrez4161 I think he was being sarcastic. I think he was making fun of the idea that somehow we're discriminating against people by disciminating against lifestyle choices.
the thing is they are consenting adults who most likely don't believe in your sky daddy fairytales and don't care if they're "committing" what you believe is a sin. if you think it is, then don't have gay sex. but leave other people alone ffs
You mean like you leave the rest of society alone? You mean like you leave our children alone?
@@mr.d.572 we're fighting for our right to exist, so no we won't leave "the rest of society" alone. mind you, most of civilized society supports us. and we're fighting for lgbtq children as well.
@@queen_elizabeth
Hyperbole and drama are the reality you live in, not the real world. Well then don't be surprised when we fight against you for trying to groom our children. They are not born the way you claim they are, you are trying to make them that way deliberately which is unconscionable.
@@mr.d.572 y'all are the ones grooming lgbtq children. yes, there are lgbtq children whether you like it or not and we will keep fighting for them. you cannot change one's sexuality, that's not how it works.
@@queen_elizabeth
You're delusional. You're deliberately trying to convert innocent children by confusing them with things they have not the capacity to understand. That makes you a predator. Predators will be fought against.
Love doesn't hurt someone doing something dangerous to them.
Thank you for explaining love
Hillsong Church in NYC has no problem with two people of the same gender being together saying they love each other. Sick church of satan.
"insert parts of bodies where they don't belong"
that was too graphic, rotfl, even from a biblical standard
Stop being a prude, be an adult.
Talking about "not belonging". We use penis and vagina to urinate. Doesn't stop anyone from having sex, does it? You can do the same with your anus. The only thing is, just like with the penis and vagina, wash it first! 😉 It's mindboggling how ignorant people aren't able to understand that our organs have more than one function. You are like a lazy middle school student who reads the first sentence from every paragraph and skips the rest. 🤦♂️
@@SergeDuka The thing is, not just urine naturally passes through the urethra - so obviously there are more than two functions. However, only one type of thing (waste material or gasses) passes the through anus and it is supposed to go out - that is an indication that it only has one biological purpose. If you choose to do more with it, that's your choice. But just because you can doesn't mean you should.
@@dandup570 Just because you don’t use anus any other way, doesn’t mean other humans shouldn’t either. Besides, feeling from stimulation of the prostate can be compared to female orgasm. Try it. 😉 And I don’t know a single scientist who would claim that this is a mere coincidence that our prostate can be stimulated this way while being accessible only via anal penetration and conveniently placed a couple of inches away from the entry point. Anal sex among males is a part of our nature as a social species. Read the books!
@@SergeDuka
It's not meant for that. If you know anything about studies done on negative effects of anal-sex, you'll know there are massive risks that far exceed the risks of normal sex (do know how HIV/AIDS became such an issue?).
Using something outside its natural functions is comparable to modifying a car's engine with parts it was not designed to have. It might make the car faster, but it is not good for the longevity of the car.
Stimulation it doesn't make it healthy. Some would say pornography is stimulating - but fail to acknowledge how disruptive, destructive and addictive it is. Drugs stimulate a person's brain. So what? That doesn't make it good for you. Also, stimulation does not equate to appropriate use.
(I also don't see how anal sex has anything to do with being social. I also doubt that it is as common as you think - and even if it was, it doesn't make it good for the well-being of society. Large groups of people often do stupid things as they basically feed off each other's lack of inhibitions)
When I look my beautiful wife in the eyes, I see nothing but love. I see the life we've made together, the hardships we've shared, the sacrifices we've made for each other, the happiness we've brought to each other. When I hold her in my arms I feel like we share a spirit. When I watch her hum while she cooks or the way she laughs at my dumb jokes, watching her fall asleep beside me, kissing her good morning...when I experience these things, there is no doubt in my heart or in my soul that we are connected for eternity by love. And I will be damned if some preachy shmuck on a podium gets to tell _me_ what love is. Have a good day.
The point was that a feeling doesn't something make good or bad in a moral sense. A feeling is not a truthmaker.
Preach sister!
@demigodzilla
I don't feel that. I'm I wrong?
@demigodzilla
Wow. Talking about emotions and category errors in the same sentence is a bit thick indeed.
That feeling is beautiful, and it is a gift from God ❤️❤️
Hi Mike, I think you should consider to create videos for Prager University. Your values are so in harmony with theirs. Through them, a lot more people can hear your voice and the biblical truth.
I like the videos I have seen from Prager U and I have really appreciated Dennis Prager's radio program. I would love the chance to do that if it ever arose!
+Mike Winger Yes, you should contact them with your proposals. I believe they would really appreciate what you can offer to them:)
+Mike Winger The way you clarify complex and controversial issues is so amazing. And I'm pretty sure it's gonna be even better with the support of Prager U's cool animations.
My animations are pretty pathetic. Haha. I hope to conscript some help for that in the future. Based on your recommendation I will send a note to Prager U. We will see what happens and if God is in it, His will be done.
+Mike Winger Amen.
What arguments are their for real loving relationships between same sex? Can those exist?
Yes, when I have a crush on someone from the same sex, I want to spend my life with him, I want to die with him, I want to laugh with him, I want to cry with him, I want to be old complaining about how it was better when we were young with him, I want to see the world with him, I want to stay at home with him, I want to care for him when he’s sick, I want to have kids with him, i want to wake up with him, I want to fall asleep with him, I want to lay on the sofa with him on a warm summer afternoon, i want to keep him warm on a cold winter night, I want to call him my love...
And now I ask you, what are your arguments for real loving relationships between people from the opposite sex?
@@notyourdoggo7540 you mean that those would be the same?
@@the1polarbearfj336 not necessarily, I’m just saying that a gay relationship is about more than the physical attraction towards one another. It’s also about the romantic attraction.
@@notyourdoggo7540 ah yes I get it
@@notyourdoggo7540 but you do think God opproves of same sex marriage? I personally don't think so.
This is such a bigoted argument. I could ask a straight couple what *their* definition of love is (love, at the end of the day, has many definitions because people express love in different ways), and they could say the same thing about the intensity of emotions. Would you also refute and invalidate all heterosexual couples, only because of what they said that magically represented all the heterosexuals in the world? You've got to be kidding me.
a dank lord Your argument is incorrect because you're just falsley assuming being homosexual is equivalent to being heterosexual while ignoring the reason behind the question. Heterosexuality is a biological and social norm hence, there is no need for justification or question since it is the foundation of a growing and prospering society. On the other hand homosexuals are trying to justify gay rights or gay marriage in the name of love hence its only valid to question what they mean. Love is subjective and using it to justify a sexual behaviour is nothing but sugar coating. I can justify pedophilia in the name of love but you wouldn't accept it now because it hasn't been financially backed up with enough brainwashing and propaganda as homosexuality.
@@alexalam8364 So on the Autism spectrum where did your doctor say that you placed? Pedophilia is a philia: a fetish. There is no possible love between and adult and a child. Just as there is no love between a man and a foot, or a woman and a dildo, or a person and a whip. Sexuality involves love. Philia is just sexual arousal. Your argument crumbles on its self with only the least amount of effort put into thought and actually defining the words you use.
@@hamybear Source(s)?
@@alexalam8364 *Thank you, finally someone else said it. I've been saying this for years.*
Well Done and Well said!
Your argument is terrible. Many gay people love each other ... more than what many true Christians love their spouses and children.
Many gay people make sacrifices for each other.
That doesn’t fit well with their worldview. It’s either alter or drop the worldview or assume we are lying
Love according to the Bible includes loving God and obeying his commandments.
@@mr.d.572 yes I know Jesus said “if you love me you will obey me”. How awful is that !!!! . I love people and don’t have to obey them . Anyway, the ancient authors of the bible have no right to dictate what love is to us all through out time. Christians don’t get to dictate their notions of love based on ancient text , to the rest of us .we know better
@@jerichosharman470
You're just rejecting God and trying to live without him. And the Bible says that will have very dire consequences for you in the end. That's what it boils down to.
@@mr.d.572 who told you that bs? Did you just make it up on the spot or do Christian’s tell you to think that ? Did Jesus tell you to troll TH-cam and hurl bs at people?
You do realize that there is no choice when it comes to sexual attraction.
Imagine what it would be like if you were told that being attracted to the opposite sex is wrong. You need to abstain from any type of a loving relationship with the opposite sex. What kind of damage do you think it would cause you growing up? Think about it.
I came to the understanding that it is not wrong to be a homosexual. It isn't dirty, or a sin no matter what your infallible book might say. It just tells me that your infallible book is wrong just like it is wrong on so many other things. Maybe that's one of the reasons folks are leaving the church.
You are wrong and will never admit it.
By what standard?
Excellent presentation.
I am assuming one could use the arguments, expressed here, in the MDR discussion...
MDR?
Did you train in a specific program for the domestic violence counseling? Would like to see about taking that course.
Circular argument, based entirely and solely on a very specifically Christian vision (absolutely not natural), and which basically only serves to justify your deep contempt for homosexual people.
I'm getting a playback error and can't view the video
try restarting your computer....
LMAO! He just refuted "But they LOVE each other" for heterosexuals as well.
Are there any differences between gay and straight relationships? YES and NO. In human terms a loving relationship is similar across the spectrum of sexualities. Most human beings regardless of orientation need/want to love and feel loved, to matter to someone special, to have regular and predictable companionship, to have a reliable sexual outlet and to build a life together based on mutual respect and understanding with shared goals and common interests. The culture, as well, puts pressure on individuals to couple and form units and families. As members of humanity and the socio/cultural fabric it is no different for GLBT persons.
GLBT persons have unique challenges and may bring unique resources to their loving relationships that are not shared by heterosexual couples. The social, cultural, legal and sometimes familial supports for our relationships are at best lacking or weak and at worst destructive. Efforts to change the culture and enact legal supports have made some progress but there is also great resistance to, for example, gay marriage. Many GLBT couples date and live invisibly or in the shadows and their concern over discovery or being obvious limits spontaneous affectionate/dating behavior and is stressful to a relationship.
The usual times when young adults are learning how to couple, date, and sort out their feelings about sex and sexual activity occurs in mid to late teens and early adulthood; in high school and perhaps college. Because GLBT youth are often hidden and/or just beginning to come to terms with their own identity their learning curve in the dating department is delayed and often put off to later, producing a disadvantage regarding acquired dating skills. The increasing presence of Gay/Straight Alliances and Cultural Diversity Groups on high school campuses has the potential to normalize the presence of GLBT youth in high schools and ultimately reduce the pressure to hide and be invisible. In that atmosphere GLBT youth dating is more possible.
Men in relationships, whether gay or straight tend to operate out of learned male role behavior. Competitiveness, power/dominance, discomfort/unfamiliarity with being emotionally intimate and/or vulnerable, the over exaggerated need to save face and pride, the need to control, limited negotiation/verbal skills, need to maintain a sense of independence all can interfere with becoming the necessary we/us in relationships. Even male language, top/bottom, dominant/submissive, etc., is indicative of classic male role-playing behavior. So imagine putting two men together with these dynamics and you often get the typical male complaint, “I just can’t seem to find someone who wants to commit.” The problem may not be so much a lack of the desire to commit but more lack of familiarity or practice with the skill set needed to make it work. Men have more difficulty moving from the me/I position to the we/us position.
Women generally possess better verbal/negotiation skills than men. They affiliate more naturally and are less needful of being dominant or independent. These attributes/skills often lead to relative ease with relationship formation. The lesbian joke is, “She came to the first date with a U-Haul!” Women in the general culture are also more stigmatized for being uncoupled and hence are more burdened by pressure to couple. In women’s relationships these factors can make managing differences and tolerating conflict more difficult. So for women allowing for and not being threatened by the I/me issues as the couple moves from the we/us stage to the me/you/us/we stage of relationship can be taxing.
Along with special challenges GLBT individuals can and do bring unique resources to their relationships. Growing up marginalized and figuring out how to cope and adapt to often non-supportive environments can result in creative flexibility and adaptability in the personality. Survival requires learning how to size up a situation to know how to behave. These skills are also useful in relationships when they translate to sensitivity to the other person and adaptability to new or unfamiliar situations. After all, at the end of the day, a relationship is the successful blending of two unique individuals into one unique relationship that affirms the individuality and the coupled-ness of both people.
Behr Smith Your argument is incorrect because you just like another user are just falsley assuming being homosexual is equivalent to being heterosexual while ignoring the reason behind the question. Heterosexuality is a biological and social norm hence, there is no need for justification or question since it is the foundation of a growing and prospering society. On the other hand homosexuals are trying to justify gay rights or gay marriage in the name of love hence its only valid to question what they mean. Love is subjective and using it to justify a sexual behaviour is nothing but sugar coating. I can justify pedophilia in the name of love but you wouldn't accept it now because it hasn't been financially backed up with enough brainwashing and propaganda as homosexuality.
Alex Alam you’re awesome dude.
😆
Excellent definition of love, Pastor Mike. Love = self sacrifice for the benefit of others.
That also fits great with what Jesus said,
Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him DENY HIMSELF (self sacrifice), and take up his cross, and follow Me. NKJV
The cross is the ultimate symbol of self sacrifice.
You can apply the same thing to heterosexual relationships. I mean, come ON. You were right when you said you didn't know what love is.
Yeah, we can apply it to everything. That is the point. We must not confuse the "intense emotions" with real love in every aspect of life. True love is loving God more than anything or anyone
@@avalancha2234 riveting. So now, only people who believe in Jesus Christ know what love is. I'm wondering what you'd do if God asked you to sacrifice your favourite person to him as an offering (be it your kid, parent, best friend, significant other), since you love God more than anything.
@@Michelle-lu7yt You do not need to be a christian to understand true love. If the christian narrative is true, Jesus' death in the cross is the perfect definition of love. Us being worthy of God's punishment, but He, deciding to have mercy and punish his Son for us. Complete selfesness, humility, showed in the person of Jesus. Should not we do that too?
I am not claiming I am perfect of course, If God for some reason told me to do that, I would not know what to do. But I know he would never ask me to do that. When Abraham was told to kill his son, God did not let that happen, because God provided a sacrifice. Not the goat that appeared at that moment, but His Son in the cross is the sacrifice that was provided for our sins and yours.
i think Gays should get married! they adopt kids who are in the system! i think that is a good thing to do!
@@avalancha2234 So you say “I know God would not ask me to do that”, yet it’s exactly what he’s asking homosexuals to do.
The real world does not revolve around the teachings of ancient people who lived in different times, in different civilizations, with different values and mores. In the real world, mores evolve and change. People believe different things, different gods, and no gods.
How dare you say that the love I feel for my partner is any less the love that you feel for your wife. Yes, I would sacrifice for my partner. Sacrifice is part of living together peacefully and we've been together for over 20 years. Please don't presume to know something that you don't know.
If you wish to live your life according to an ancient book that you obviously misunderstand, that's fine, but don't tell others that their love is not real simply because it doesn't fit within your narrow definition.
+Phyllis Sophical Phyllis, I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my video. I'm commenting because I think you've misunderstood my point. Please let me explain because I'm not saying what you think. It's not as though I think that two gay people can't love each other. This is part of a larger 4 part series where I dealt with this issue in great detail first analyzing the old testament passages then the new testament, then asking what science and reason say and finally dealing with pro-gay slogans and offering a secular case against homosexual behavior (notice that doesn't mean a secular case against homosexuals). My point in this little snippet is that "love" doesn't make otherwise bad things good. I think you would probably agree with that in principle but disagree when it is applied to homosexual acts. I don't think you have no love toward your partner, I think that the part of the relationship where you have sexual relations is not love in the biblical sense. Maybe you don't care about the Bible or what it says, fine. But please don't think that I'm saying something so silly as "my love is better than yours". You accuse me of not understanding the Bible... for that I encourage you to listen to the first two messages in the series "Homosexuality: speaking the truth in love". You also claim that morals change and that the Bible doesn't apply today because of societal change. For this I encourage you to watch the very last video in the series. Phyllis, I care about you and your partner and I wish for the best for both of you. I'm sure you have had countless acts of love toward each other so please don't mistake me for saying what you thought. I think this issue is very confusing and I want to take the time to clarify what I mean and make it clear that this is NOT some sort of bigotry or hatred on my part. Please take the time to consider what I've said and I look forward to your response.
Mike
Thank you for your reply. I have started to watch your series and I'm taking notes. I will get back to you when I'm finished. I'm only 21 minutes into part 1 of the series and I already disagree with you on almost every point, so this should be interesting. Would you like me to comment in the comment section of every video or reply to everything on this video here?Mike Winger
It's easier if you comment on those particular videos. Thank you. :)
1. Stop being prejudiced towards ancient people. You're being a hypocrite.
2. No he did not misunderstand it.
3. It doesn't matter what someone feels if the Bible is the truth.
Scripture also says love is the fulfillment of the Law. If you truly "love your neighbor as yourself", you WOULD NOT murder, steal, bear false witness, commit adultery, or even covet your neighbor's spouse or things. And by extension, you WOULD NOT be engaging in immoral sexual behavior with your neighbor. And you WOULD NOT encourage people to live that kind of life if you're desiring them to become Christian. In the book of Ezekiel, God equates the prophet's role to that of a watchman. If he sees the enemy heading for the people and he warns them but they refuse to take heed to the warning, ONLY THEY will perish. However, if the watchman sees the enemy coming but does not warn the people of that danger, they will perish, BUT the watchman will be held responsible for their blood. Similarily, if a Christian warns a person to turn away from their sin but they refuse to take heed to that warning, only that person who refuses to take heed will perish. However, if a Christian does not warn a person to turn away from their sin, the other person will perish, but God will hold that Christian responsible for not warning them. To warn somebody that they're heading for danger (in this case, eternal separation from God) is the most loving thing a Christian can do, and that's what Christians are encouraged to do, for God does not desire for even the little ones to perish, but for all to come to repentance and be saved.
You do know what love means, don’t play dumb. Love means to will the good of the other as other.
If your religion makes you less tolerant and loving towards people who aren't like you (homosexuals), you need to seriously take a look at yourself and your worldview. And don't give me any of the "hate the sin, love the sinner" excuses. Telling someone they lead a sinful life and it will lead them to eternal damnation is harassment and morally reprehensible.
Ignoring eternal damnation, tolerance is one of those things that needs to be exercised in measure. Too much tolerance can allow for detrimental and dangerous things to occur, so it's that not _intolerance_ is necessarily bad, it's that _mistreating people_ for disagreeing with them that's bad.
I'm an Orthodox Jew so I don't believe in binary eternal damnation, although I do believe in the reality of sin.
@@hashemisbeautiful6615 would you have an example of a detrimental and dangerous thing that would occur if people stopped being intolerant of gay people?
@@levijoe7920 In the big picture it may accustom people, or make them feel pressure to, accept other forms of currently opposed sexual preferences. This has already begun happening on the front of the sexualization of youth, especially girls. The scariest thing is that it seems to have public appeal on the internet.
@@hashemisbeautiful6615 Sexual orientation and the sexualization of youth have nothing to do with one another except for the "taboo" aspect. The only reason homosexuality is seen as taboo is because of religion. The sexualization of our youth can be judged in the absence of religion.
Just because something like marijuana is legalized doesn't mean everyone is going to feel bad that meth isn't legal.
@@levijoe7920 Every time I leave a response to this comment, it gets automatically deleted. Sorry, I guess I can't respond. Too bad, I thought it was sensible enough.
based & redpilled
Gay couples will also make sacrifices for each other to maintain a relationship. Your arguments are nonsense.
homosexuality is disgusting.
Gay couples definitely love each like straight people do. Try again.
Doesnt mean its ok
@@apracity7672 yes it does.
Temptations are part of human nature. However, not everyone should act upon every temptation they have. Part of being righteous is to abstain from certain temptations. One temptation that some people have is the want to engage in gay sex. The feeling itself isn't inherently bad, its the acting upon it part that is. Don't be fooled though, straight people also have sexual temptations they should'nt act upon.
@@apracity7672 but you realize by say this your saying homosexuality is just some feeling a person can turn on and off and your completely wrong why should someone be unhappy and live a life they would hate and no be them self just to please religion or religious people it’s not fair
@@dhatkrazzikidd101 I think you misunderstood what I said, I never talked about an on and off switch. Also, it seems that you're saying someone who doesn't have sex hates their life and is miserable. Do you think all non-married single people who aren't having sex are living miserable lives? I've read many gay testimonies of people who came to Christ and all of them are happy. Another very important point is that you act like only gay people can't have sex. Pre-marital sex is bad for both gays and straight people. Lastly, you talk about wanting to please "religion" or "religious people". Serving Christ has nothing to do with pleasing "religion" or "religious people", its about following Christ, no one else. Just so you know, I grew up in an agnostic household, and at the age of 19, after many years of looking for the truth and after reading the New Testament, it became clear that Jesus was really who he claimed to be. Hopefully, you come to Christ too, some day.
I LOVE MY DOG AND I AM NOT PLANNING TO MARRY HIM ANYTIME SOON!.
And .. You are also a disgustig person for comparing the two.
Dogs can't give consent. They might love you and show that by following you everywhere , but they don't have the ability to give vocal consent and no woof woof isn't good enough.
Jfc....
The more I watch this guy the more I'm beginning to think that Christianity is very orwellian
Orwelian would be the case if christians impose it on others. We do not. God will be judge not us christians. If they do judge, they havent understood the essence of the teachings of jesus. Jesus hates sin but loves sinners. So just like you expect christians to not impose their views on open society, we also ask you to accept that we have our biblical views. That is tolerance. It goes both ways. Btw tolerance comes from the greek word tolerar which means to carry a burden. We need to carry the burden of differences between us in open society, as in we need to learn to deal with opposing views without looking down at each other or ceasing to remain friends.
@@coachtimo dude, if you think God is a man and somehow three people in one, that's your thing. Pray to whatever Zues you feel like. But Mike clearly has a different idea of love then I do. My idea of love would be to spend my life with someone who helps me through life, his idea would be to bare me from my husband because a book told him to
I don't think you understand the meaning of "Orwellian".
@@ablethreefourbravo Don't worry I do. I know that this guy would look at a loving, committed, stable relationship between two men as not loving because the Bible said so. The human mind has an amazing ability to reject apparent reality because of ideological conditioning. Such as in the case of seeing 4 fingers but believing theirs five
@@JMBen So you don't understand what "Orwellian" means. It's okay, buddy. It's a tough concept for some.
nice sermons!
it’s not that serious bro.
The bank robber analogy is so good!😂😂
Perfect video.
Wow. So only straight people feel a sense of self sacrifice? Do you know any gay people? Have you spoken to them? Obviously not. I pity your family.
Michael Hampton I pity you repent before it is too late Hod can change you
@@shiararuiz5171 God is dead, so good luck with that.
Michael Hampton you're the only one who said that. He just defined love and did not imply that
@@dasetwas1564 He was dead, but resurrected :D
@@ionutdinchitila1663 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
A
Good thing that the Renaissance period told people that we don't have to obey them anymore.
we don't need the bible to achieve love and happiness. Everyone please you need to understand this.
Thank you, I appreciate this.
@Don Killuminati found the conspiracy theorist with polio children.
you don't define love you feel it
Krijn Sijbers
You just defined love as something that is not defined. Self-defeating.
Love is not a feeling. Love is an action
CalledChosenTransformedAbiding love is a feeling. It's something that should motivate you to show it
Hyrulean, you only believe that because its what you've been told your whole life. Problem is... the world does not know what love really is. You have gotten your definition mainly from people who do not understand what love really is. Or they have also been fed a wrong definition all their lives also.
That feeling people get is admiration, desire, longing, etc.... Love is the action... It is a self-sacrifice for the sake of another.
Yes, certain feelings motivate us to the acts of love, BUT God wants us to love others EVEN WHEN we don't FEEL LIKE IT.
CalledChosenTransformedAbiding how is it wrong that two gays admire each other? Sex shouldn't be a factor
In this human world, is there really such a thing as absolute truth? Is there really something out there we can grab a hold of and know without a shadow of a doubt its true? A huge part of me believes there is.
Yes, absolute truth exists. Those who claim it doesn't are only deceived and are deceiving others.
ما هذا
Mike I don't love your shirt could you please change it
“I have no idea what love is”
Mike Winger
That pretty much sums up the video
He is right about one thing. It's not the biblical definition of love. The biblical definition of love is if you rape a woman you have to marry her and make sure she keeps her mouth shut in church.
y’all care so much about something that doesn’t impact u
Sure it does.
Homophobe detected
ok bigot
Against what? Ideas?
@@addy01001 That is correct. Everyone is bigoted against something. It's a part of human nature. You're bigoted against your very broad scope of what constitutes a "homophobe."
@@MatthewMinistries-cp2yq can I know which of my saying contributes to homophobe?
@@addy01001 What I'm saying is, you're bigoted against your broad definition of what a "homophobe" is. And I'm also saying to have an opinion and be unsupportive of other opinions or lifestyles is to be bigoted. It goes both ways.
If you are unaware of the self-sacrificial love of gays for each other, you know nothing about gay love. You should rightly just sit down and be quiet until you can learn something.
Wow, claim to refute something without actually refuting it. Religion in a nutshell.
@Barny Baylery 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
There's no reason to hate people just for loving eachother. You christians make so many excuses. 🤦♂️
What?the truth is only in the bible.Why should leave the church ..You should seek the truth Mr Simon
TL;DW the video.
"I think it's icky, so you can't be close together!"
Aww Christians! Always finding out new ways to spread hate♥️
It's not hate, and you know that. But that's a convenient way for you to duck what's in the Bible.