I remember hearing stories about the Pacific Electric red train. My wife had family in Orange County that were able to go to LA without a car. That people didn’t fight back when they removed it was sad.
PE only made money in WW2. The system was built by industrialists Tycoon Mulhollands son to bring people to his real estate projects. Because of the expansiveness of LA basin cars were needed because you can’t lay track in two mile grid squares so people could walk or bike. There are still remnants of the PE all around. Heck, I just found a piece of 1885 rail from the California Southern Railroad in Temecula that was burried for 80 years
I always think of that restaurant on Santa Monica Blvd by Little SM Boulevard that was built in one of those former red cars. Not sure if the restaurant is still around but it was pretty upscale You could find a few of these old train cars converted into greasy spoons all over L.A. back in the day. We also have one here in SF that is open odd hours like 9:00 pm-4:00 am
The poor ride quality and slow speed of the red cars, especially at the end of their use, meant that the replacement buses were a superior product and considered an improvement by most riders at the time.
@@DaveSoCal fun fact, Metrolink wants to revive that line to make a connection to Temecula and Fallbrook. Last I heard they were doing feasibility studies for it.
I can’t believe that a commuter railroad that lasted not even half a year had all those rolling stock changes and meanwhile in Chicago we’ve been stuck with the same old gallery cars since 1984.
I can't help but think of Breaking Bad when you mentioned El Camino 😂. The Pacific Electric network really was incredible, its peak included over 1,100 miles of track with 900 electric trolley cars! The iconic Red Car Trolley Cars still live on in Los Angeles...kinda! At Disney California Adventure across from Disneyland in Anaheim! When DCA opened in 2001, the original gate land was called Sunshine Plaza, designed to evoke a sensation as if one were stepping into a California postcard, with California spelt out in big letters, a replica of the Golden Gate Bridge for the monorail, and massive murals depicting CA's mountains. A big metal sunburst stood at the end to reflect solar rays into the area. It even had a replica Western Pacific California Zephyr which housed two restaurants! But in 2007, an expansion plan for the park was announced, and this included reimagining Sunshine Plaza as Buena Vista Street! Buena Vista Street officially opened in 2012. The big California letters were sent to Sacramento for the state fairgrounds. The Golden Gate Bridge was removed, and the sunburst structure replaced with a recreation of the Carthay Circle Theater, symbolically chosen because it was the theater where Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, Disney's first feature-length animated film, had its world premiere in 1937! The replica California Zephyr was given to the Western Pacific Museum. But more importantly, they added a tramway for the land inspired by the Pacific Electric, although unlike the Pacific Electric, they're battery-operated, so its trolley poles and overhead catenary lines along its route in the land are just there for decoration.
And there is the hidden history of US antitrust policy, wealthy Americans paying a marginal tax rate over 50%, why we even have a capital gains and an estate tax. All because of the autocratic abuses of the gilded age between the 1880s and 1890s, until Theodore Roosevelt finally led the charge on antitrust policy in the 1900s when he was president. That, and what college professor Richard Wolff argues for regarding worker co-ops being the continuing evolution of that history.
I heard about the original Caltrain years ago, when I was reseraching the P30CH locomotives, but I had no idea that it was so short-lived. As for the present-day Metrolink, or any commuter rail service really, it's always good to see some success in the railway world. The Antelope Valley Line is in Train Sim World 4 (despite not being a good choice on Dovetail Games' part, in my opinion), and the San Bernardino Line is also being made for the game, but that means all three of the latest US routes are based in California. However, I'm still interested in trying another US commuter line.
The CalTrain route in TSW is an older route from a few years ago, I believe it was one of their first US passenger routes. The 3 newest US routes are NEC:Trenton, Metrolink AVL, and Metrolink SBL coming soon. AVL is a little tedious as you spend most of your time at 30mph winding through mountain passes, so the F125 rarely gets to stretch its legs. The F125 is also a bit feature light, the mapping system isn't modeled and MetroLink doesn't run any sort of PTC or cab based signaling. IMHO the two best US routes in TSW are NEC: Trenton and Boston-Providence, on both routes you get Amtrak with ACS-64 and Acela plus MBTA commuter service on the Boston-Providence route and NJT commuter service on the Trenton route. NJT is probably the most challenging commuter services to drive in TSW because the trains are huge and heavy, and the ALP-46 is challenging to drive on top of managing constant signaling and speed changes via ACSES. It's not like UK commuter services which you can do half asleep.
I’ve lived in Southern California for over 60 years and have always been a railroad fan, but I don’t remember hearing of either of these services. Information was hard to come by before the internet came along.
So here is hypocrisy. The Southern California Rapid Transit District now known as the Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority tore out the Pacific Electric rails and replaced them with buses. In 1949 there was a trial alleging a conspiracy by Firestone Tire, Standard Oil of California, Phillips Petroleum, GM, and Mack Trucks. They were convicted of of conspiring to monopolize the sale of buses and related products to local transit companies controlled by NCL. Fast forward a few decades and the RTD is building a light rail system. Guess where the tracks were laid. That's right, the old Pacific Electric right of way. Somebody needs to go to jail.
Fascinating review of a history that I watched in person fifty years ago! The El Camino train that county supervisor Baxter Ward spearheaded was nicknamed Baxter's Choo-choo. They were old cars from the streamliner era but when they were working properly, they were glorious! I remember riding from Los Angeles into Santa Ana in that domed observation car. What a ride! But unfortunately, they didn't meet safety and operational standards most days, and had to be frequently replaced with Amfleet coaches. They were not ideal for a commuter train in Southern California. The windows were small and frequently dirty. For each stop, the conductor had to manually raise the trapdoor in the floor, and place a stepbox on most low platforms. Because of this, there were not a lot of doors open at most stops. The passengers might have to walk to the next car to get off the train.
Wow, thanks so much for sharing your experiences on this train! Sadly, the whole door thing still happens on a lot of Amtrak trains in the Midwest and other places...
I've heard a bit about the CalTrain in Los Angeles, but now, I know a lot more about it! Also, the skit at 3:12-3:50 was quite funny, as was the meme at 5:50! Thanks for the video!
As expected I enjoyed this video. It was fun to hear about Baxter Ward after all these years! He was always trying to do progressive things such as this early version of Cal Train. Not surprised this missed me since my daughter was a toddler at the time and I didn’t watch television for several years I liked seeing the stops and knowing what station you showed in this video. I have taken Metro link numerous times over the years but the Pacific Surfliner was better since it stopped in Ventura where I lived for a couple of years. My earliest memories of trains are from the old train station in Santa Barbara and am most fond of this stretch of rail
It’s crazy how rail transit in the Los Angeles Metropolitan Area evolved, with the San Diego Trolley starting in 1981, nine years before the Los Angeles Metro Rail. Los Angeles was the largest city in America with no rapid transit for its time, with New York City and Chicago having rapid transit (in which they still do to this day). Like you said about the high-speed rail at the end, there should have been a conversion of the Surf Line to a high-speed rail corridor, just like the Northeast Corridor. Amtrak directly owns 623 miles of track and operates an additional 132 miles of track, which some of those tracks are in Southern California (Correct me if I am wrong). There have been plans to upgrade the Surf Line to Class 6 trackage, which can go at 110 MPH. But however, funding has yet to be given. The Los Angeles Metro Rail A and E lines run on former interurban right-of-way, which was the Pacific Electric. Los Angeles Metro Rail is one of the light rail systems that have portions that run on former interurban right-of-ways, with others being the Baltimore Light RailLink and the SEPTA 101 and 102, with the Norristown High Speed Line being heavy rail line, the Chicago "L" Yellow Line running former right-of-way, and the South Shore Line being the only surviving true interurban line in America. Lastly, for original concepts of the Los Angeles Metro Rail, for subway lines, there were going to be similar to BART cars in San Francisco, which they are 5 ft 6 in. Their final concepts were based on Budd cars used in Miami and Baltimore, which are standard gauge. Similarly, for the light rail, the cars were originally Siemens-Düewag U2 electric multiple units used in Frankfurt, San Diego, Edmonton, and Calgary. However, Japanese company, Nippon Sharyo won the contract.
@dianethulin1700 Dude, San Diego is a beautiful city. Their trolley system even has diesel freight trains operated by the San Diego & Imperial Valley Railroad (formerly operated by the Southern Pacific Transportation Company).
@@AmtrakFunkandDiscoFan I had an old boyfriend who was from Birdrock South and he knew how to get around by train and bus. I always like to go to that old fashioned theme park with the indoor pool and mellow roller coaster
This is a big problem in the United States, many railroads are owned by freight trains and they don't like to have passenger railroads operating on their tracks. Here in Northern Virginia, VRE operates on tracks owned by CSX. CSX limits they when they operate and sometimes causes delays
Ewwww. 60s era bullshit because LA and it's surrounding Greater LA really did fuck up back then. Totally dependent on cars when we had so much more, only now are we barely getting back into having proper transit.
I took Metrolink for granted growing up. Sure, LA is pisspoor in transit for being the 2nd largest city, especially compared to its 1st and 3rd place rivals, but it’s still possible to get most places in the city by transit, even if it will be an expensive and long journey
I ride Metrolink & Amtrak for work everyday going to Van Nuys from LA, I see old SP, Santa Fe, Pacific Electric remains all along the track routes that the train follows. Now everything makes sense.
I'm just waiting for the Metrolink SCORE project to come into effect in October. Because although Metrolink is a cool service with a lot more coverage than people know. It's really hampered by one train per hour. Like yesterday I was hauling ass from school in the rain to get on Metrolink down to Burbank to hangout with friends. And I kid you not, right as I arrived the train was leaving. And since another train wasn't coming for another hour I basically just had to cancel my plans and head back home. Whereas had another train come in 15 minutes (like what they're aiming for in SCORE) I could have just waited. It also didn't help that Northridge station is in a super inconvenient location that's counterintuitively really far from the main arterial road of Reseda. Tbh Northridge station has to be one of the worst train stations in the world. Thank God they're planning on moving it in the next couple of years
@@Thom-TRASo would you agree, LA Metro is probably the most extensive and best light rail network in the US? Other than the two underground lines, the bulk of the LA Metro lines use light rail rolling stock if I recall.
Yeah I remember friends of mine and I rode the early LA Metro link. I rode the early LA light rail back in the day. Come a long long way. That's pretty quick and 30 years or so 35 years
Unfortunately the train ride from LA to Oxnard is much longer than it needs to be due to the winding route taken along the mountains instead of through the pass that the 101 takes (likely too steep). All taken into account, it’s about twice as long as driving
That poor guy at the end. I hope the wait for the next train wasn't too long. One of my best friends lives in LA and I visit him regularly. The first couple of times I visited him, I rented a car, only to realize it was a huge waste of money just leaving the car in front of his house, because we'd just take Metro almost anywhere we needed to go, and he would insist on driving whenever we'd leave the LA Basin anyhow. On a couple of occasions during drives to or from Death Valley and the Eastern Sierra, we'd parallel the Antelope Valley Line between Lancaster and Burbank, with periods where railroad going off to some valley that was probably far more scenic than the dull expressway we were on. It looks like it goes through some interesting countryside, so it is my goal to ride that line to its end the next time I go to LA...
AVL is supposed to be pretty scenic, probably the most scenic commuter train in the US. You can sort of experience it in Train Sim World 4, the route is in the sim.
I'll check it out! Having spent my years in college and after riding the MBTA's Rockport/Newburyport Commuter Rail line, I know scenic commuter trains. Much of its run north of Salem is along the coast and is very scenic as it passes through small villages and historic ports, the rocky Cape Ann coastline, fruit orchards, farmland, and coastal marshes, etc. so I think a comparison run is in order (though I suspect it's a non-comparable apples and oranges thing)
@@Thom-TRA It's not a transit project without drama but for what it's worth, you do see some progress in the end. Let's just hope that Caltrain and other transit projects continue to grow into the future 👍
Another great video. I was living in LA in 1978 but was not aware of all this going on other then that the traffic was bad. I remember Baxter Ward, he was a new anchor on channel 7 before going into politics. Last visited down there in 2022 and it seems like traffic in LA is so much worse than it was back then even with all these transit options.
Wish the SCRRA could have gotten the rest of the right of way from Oceanside to San Diego at the time. Think of how passinger ridership could have gotten alot better since travels wouldn't have to transfer from Coaster to Metrolink when going to SB or LA. Yes there's amtrak but think on how affordable it would have been to ride metrolink from SD to LA.
My dad worked for the State of California for 19 yrs ( EDD : Employment Development Dept AKA the Unemployment office, CDPSS, : Cal Deot of Social Services community care divisson. Basically he worked in the division that licensed Child cate centers and preschools in 1992 and CPUC , Public Utilities Commission from 1992 - 1995 ( when he passed.)and had several coworkers who lived in other areas of SoCal ( San Fernando ( Burbank, Universal City, and Northridge) , Santa Clarita, and Antelope Valleys ( Lancaster and Palmdale, the Inland Empire ( San Bernardino and Riverside Counties) who when MetroLink first started rolling loved it because they didn't have to get up before dawn just to make it to work in Downtown LA. The earthquake Thom eluded to that happened in 1994 was the Northridge earthquake. It was the most destructive earthquake in California history, I think the 1906 SF quake and The Lona Pieta SF 1989 quake were 2nd and 3rd the most destructive quakes respectively. Pres Clinton declared the majority of LA county a national disaster area which paved the way for federal resources like FEMA to come in.
IMHO The feds should nationalize the main west coast line and upgrade it to NEC standards or better. It would probably cost less than the insane price tag of CAHSR. While they're at it they should do the same on the east coast and extend the NEC all the way to Florida.
Really enjoyed this awesome video and history of Caltrain. Your thorough investigation and historical documentation as well as your reenactment and the hungry hungry hippos were just absolutely awesome!!! Thank you!!!
Crazy to see how long the transit fight in CA/LA has been. What could have been if we had the current momentum (which even still has a lot of hangups) back when this started.
Unfortunately in present times UP RR has been even more reluctant to accomodating additional Passenger trains on their tracks,unless the states or feds are willing to pony up the money for socalled improvements!
European countries are way ahead of the US when it comes to commuter rail service specially with high speed rail service. Europeans are more inclined to use commuter rail service and improve the environment by using electric rail service. In the US travelers want to use their own cars, consequently burning up more carbon fuel and causing more pollution. It’s a cultural issue about method of travel.
What happens to all the diesel units and gallery cars bumped by electrification? Early 1990s CalTrain supplied a F40 and gallery cars consist for an Orange County commuter line with Amtrak ticket cross honoring.
All American freight railroads are awful to deal with and awful to work for. Their armies of lobbyists have done more to hamstring rail travel in the US than even the auto industry. UPRR and BNSF routinely appear on the lists of worst companies to work for.
Southern Pacific was actively opposed to any expansion of passenger trains on their tracks. They were the worst railroad Amtrak had to deal with in its early years.
@@Thom-TRAYou should do a video on the craziness that was the building of the AVL after the Northridge quake. If I recall it was built in a week or so.
I get the impression that Southern Railroad was the main stumbling block but then there was this “wall of opposition”, so was a complex picture. Seems the government has to own the railroads so not to be beholden to a freight operator.
And this is why Amtrak is forever cursed to have slow, often delayed service as they're at the mercy of freight operators most places outside of the NEC. No signaling upgrades or upgrade/removal of grade crossings to facilitate going faster than 79mph as the freight railroads see no need for it. Amtrak is supposed to get priority over freight but it's normal for freight dispatchers to make Amtrak sit in the siding because 1.5mi long freight trains don't fit in most sidings. While they take 20+ minutes to trundle by at whatever speed they can manage (only intermodal consists usually get decent power, everything else will be underpowered).
@@mikehawk2003IMHO the feds should've nationalized the rail lines back during the cold war as a strategic asset, then they could upgrade and electrify to their hearts content (well as much as congressional funding will allow). Just have the private freight railroads pay an access fee to use it (that would probably cost less than they currently pay for maintenance on their own lines).
After living in LA for a bit as a student of musicians Institute in Hollywood; I got pretty used to riding the transit routes, along with navigating bus routes, since I didn’t drive at the time. Even if I drive today, I do like the leisurely option of taking the surf liner from San Diego to LA, and using the transit connections. All the same, who would dream of resurrecting the old Pacific electric transit system with the standards of the current metro routes? If those routes timed well enough with usual traffic patterns, and were well-maintained; who would ride them like once upon a time? I certainly would, and because I am such a huge nut for train history, (even if the Santa Fe and southern pacific were corporate machines like described), I sometimes wish I could at least ride metro link across the entire original Pasadena subdivision from LA Union Station, through Pasadena, and all the way to San Bernardino. At least that metro line is possibly being extended to Pomona to connect with metro link; which I used to ride over to San Bernardino during my musicians Institute years to see the train museum at the station. Happy rail fanning!
@@Thom-TRA I have learned over time, that it was a subsidiary of the southern pacific, that largely Hispanic and African-American communities would use it to commute to downtown LA, the SP allowing the system to fall into disrepair, racism, and the who framed Roger rabbit conspiracy of Chevron, GM, and a large tire company conspiring to take over. If you’ve ever been to Felipe the original French dip restaurant near LA Union Station; they have a vintage map of the original Pacific electric system.
@@Thom-TRA and that is why I have concluded that some people, (and why we sometimes hear the news regarding such), want to withhold that information or stop it from being taught to the next generation so we are not inspired to take these lessons and rise up against the oligarchy. I say that with conviction at this point.
@@Thom-TRA I was thinking how various streetcar/bus companies often merged into one or two present operators in most major cities (at least in the US) and simply it was too much to manage two separate systems (which around 250mi apart from their furthest extents)
Fascinating. I never knew about that. It reminds me a lot of Norfolk Southern. Fun fact if you didn't know, there was a short line called Norfolk Southern long before the Norfolk Southern we know today existed. That got bought out by Southern Railway and eventually when Southern and N&W were put in a holding company, they called it Norfolk Southern (Norfolk Southern wasn't an official railroad of its own until 1990 I believe but the name dates back to 1982). Also I loved that little debate reenactment.
@@Thom-TRA I don't know much about the line but I believe it ran from Norfolk south into various parts of North Carolina. The current Norfolk Southern actually has an original Norfolk Southern heritage unit (it was one of 2 schemes they had that I know of. The other one was a white background with black letters. There's an old locomotive with that scheme at the Spencer railway museum)
@@Thom-TRA Thanks, in Melbourne, we have this Myki system where cards a validated on departure and arrival. No need to check tickets on board and no need to design trains for ticket checking. Sometimes with the huge cost of having a ticketing system, might be cheaper to have free public transport. We’re often told that the fare we pay is a tiny propotion of running costs, be interesting to deduct cost of ticketing system. Only thing, the government tried to introduce free public transport on weekends in the late ‘70s but that increased the number of roving gangs of youths looking for trouble (gangs don’t pay the fare anyway), so maybe a ticketing system only need to record who travels without deducting a cost so people won’t trash the trains.
@@darylcheshire1618Fares serve another purpose as well. It keeps the trains from turning into mobile encampments for the unhoused. Back last summer when RTD in Denver ran free services in July and August they had to step up security on the trains to keep people from camping out on them.
@@mrvwbug4423 Ahh once I had an all-lines ticket for trains in NSW and I travelled from Sydney to Goulburn and return overnight to avoid paying for overnight accommodation in (expensive) Sydney. I think that’s something done in Europe by tourist pass holders.
![[HD] HIGH SPEED CalTrain Diesels on the Peninsula! (Compilation)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Gr_TL-18Sqs/mqdefault.jpg)
I remember hearing stories about the Pacific Electric red train. My wife had family in Orange County that were able to go to LA without a car. That people didn’t fight back when they removed it was sad.
PE only made money in WW2. The system was built by industrialists Tycoon Mulhollands son to bring people to his real estate projects. Because of the expansiveness of LA basin cars were needed because you can’t lay track in two mile grid squares so people could walk or bike. There are still remnants of the PE all around. Heck, I just found a piece of 1885 rail from the California Southern Railroad in Temecula that was burried for 80 years
I always think of that restaurant on Santa Monica Blvd by Little SM Boulevard that was built in one of those former red cars. Not sure if the restaurant is still around but it was pretty upscale
You could find a few of these old train cars converted into greasy spoons all over L.A. back in the day. We also have one here in SF that is open odd hours like 9:00 pm-4:00 am
@@CancelTH-cam026 Extreme L take
The poor ride quality and slow speed of the red cars, especially at the end of their use, meant that the replacement buses were a superior product and considered an improvement by most riders at the time.
@@DaveSoCal fun fact, Metrolink wants to revive that line to make a connection to Temecula and Fallbrook. Last I heard they were doing feasibility studies for it.
I can’t believe that a commuter railroad that lasted not even half a year had all those rolling stock changes and meanwhile in Chicago we’ve been stuck with the same old gallery cars since 1984.
It’s pretty crazy
I can't help but think of Breaking Bad when you mentioned El Camino 😂. The Pacific Electric network really was incredible, its peak included over 1,100 miles of track with 900 electric trolley cars! The iconic Red Car Trolley Cars still live on in Los Angeles...kinda! At Disney California Adventure across from Disneyland in Anaheim! When DCA opened in 2001, the original gate land was called Sunshine Plaza, designed to evoke a sensation as if one were stepping into a California postcard, with California spelt out in big letters, a replica of the Golden Gate Bridge for the monorail, and massive murals depicting CA's mountains. A big metal sunburst stood at the end to reflect solar rays into the area. It even had a replica Western Pacific California Zephyr which housed two restaurants! But in 2007, an expansion plan for the park was announced, and this included reimagining Sunshine Plaza as Buena Vista Street!
Buena Vista Street officially opened in 2012. The big California letters were sent to Sacramento for the state fairgrounds. The Golden Gate Bridge was removed, and the sunburst structure replaced with a recreation of the Carthay Circle Theater, symbolically chosen because it was the theater where Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, Disney's first feature-length animated film, had its world premiere in 1937! The replica California Zephyr was given to the Western Pacific Museum. But more importantly, they added a tramway for the land inspired by the Pacific Electric, although unlike the Pacific Electric, they're battery-operated, so its trolley poles and overhead catenary lines along its route in the land are just there for decoration.
The North Shore Line and the Pacific Electric are the two historical transit systems that I wish, more than any others, had never closed.
We need to get back to the idea that greed is sin. Greed is corruption and should be criminally adjudicated as corruption.
Greed is good. Greed works.
@@alhollywood6486 you enjoy paying 5 buck a gallon?
And there is the hidden history of US antitrust policy, wealthy Americans paying a marginal tax rate over 50%, why we even have a capital gains and an estate tax. All because of the autocratic abuses of the gilded age between the 1880s and 1890s, until Theodore Roosevelt finally led the charge on antitrust policy in the 1900s when he was president. That, and what college professor Richard Wolff argues for regarding worker co-ops being the continuing evolution of that history.
Lololol
Why are so many railfans communist? It gives the rest of us a bad name.
The great country, which gave the world Pullman cars had been so sad in the rail transport department until very recently...
Thank you, Thom!
The newer Gallery cars are not made by Pullman only the older ones that Chicago Metra has
@@davinp I meant the real 19th century Pullman cars, which most of the world once fell in love with. Thank you!
I heard about the original Caltrain years ago, when I was reseraching the P30CH locomotives, but I had no idea that it was so short-lived. As for the present-day Metrolink, or any commuter rail service really, it's always good to see some success in the railway world.
The Antelope Valley Line is in Train Sim World 4 (despite not being a good choice on Dovetail Games' part, in my opinion), and the San Bernardino Line is also being made for the game, but that means all three of the latest US routes are based in California. However, I'm still interested in trying another US commuter line.
The CalTrain route in TSW is an older route from a few years ago, I believe it was one of their first US passenger routes. The 3 newest US routes are NEC:Trenton, Metrolink AVL, and Metrolink SBL coming soon. AVL is a little tedious as you spend most of your time at 30mph winding through mountain passes, so the F125 rarely gets to stretch its legs. The F125 is also a bit feature light, the mapping system isn't modeled and MetroLink doesn't run any sort of PTC or cab based signaling. IMHO the two best US routes in TSW are NEC: Trenton and Boston-Providence, on both routes you get Amtrak with ACS-64 and Acela plus MBTA commuter service on the Boston-Providence route and NJT commuter service on the Trenton route. NJT is probably the most challenging commuter services to drive in TSW because the trains are huge and heavy, and the ALP-46 is challenging to drive on top of managing constant signaling and speed changes via ACSES. It's not like UK commuter services which you can do half asleep.
I’ve lived in Southern California for over 60 years and have always been a railroad fan, but I don’t remember hearing of either of these services. Information was hard to come by before the internet came along.
Even now it was still pretty difficult to find images for some of these old trains!
I did not know anything about this, even having lived in the greater Bay Area for some 44 years. Awesome video topic!
Thanks! Glad you could learn something. I can't wait to go back to the Bay Area.
I hate freight train companies
So here is hypocrisy. The Southern California Rapid Transit District now known as the Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority tore out the Pacific Electric rails and replaced them with buses. In 1949 there was a trial alleging a conspiracy by Firestone Tire, Standard Oil of California, Phillips Petroleum, GM, and Mack Trucks. They were convicted of of conspiring to monopolize the sale of buses and related products to local transit companies controlled by NCL. Fast forward a few decades and the RTD is building a light rail system. Guess where the tracks were laid. That's right, the old Pacific Electric right of way. Somebody needs to go to jail.
Times change and it’s not all the same people though
Fascinating review of a history that I watched in person fifty years ago!
The El Camino train that county supervisor Baxter Ward spearheaded was nicknamed Baxter's Choo-choo. They were old cars from the streamliner era but when they were working properly, they were glorious! I remember riding from Los Angeles into Santa Ana in that domed observation car. What a ride! But unfortunately, they didn't meet safety and operational standards most days, and had to be frequently replaced with Amfleet coaches. They were not ideal for a commuter train in Southern California. The windows were small and frequently dirty. For each stop, the conductor had to manually raise the trapdoor in the floor, and place a stepbox on most low platforms. Because of this, there were not a lot of doors open at most stops. The passengers might have to walk to the next car to get off the train.
Wow, thanks so much for sharing your experiences on this train!
Sadly, the whole door thing still happens on a lot of Amtrak trains in the Midwest and other places...
❤ Baxter Ward!
I've heard a bit about the CalTrain in Los Angeles, but now, I know a lot more about it! Also, the skit at 3:12-3:50 was quite funny, as was the meme at 5:50!
Thanks for the video!
Thanks for the comment!
@@Thom-TRA, you're welcome!
Interesting little story, I never knew about this. Nice work!
Thanks!
As expected I enjoyed this video. It was fun to hear about Baxter Ward after all these years! He was always trying to do progressive things such as this early version of Cal Train. Not surprised this missed me since my daughter was a toddler at the time and I didn’t watch television for several years
I liked seeing the stops and knowing what station you showed in this video. I have taken Metro link numerous times over the years but the Pacific Surfliner was better since it stopped in Ventura where I lived for a couple of years. My earliest memories of trains are from the old train station in Santa Barbara and am most fond of this stretch of rail
I fell in love with the Pacific Surfliner the very first time I rode it!
It’s crazy how rail transit in the Los Angeles Metropolitan Area evolved, with the San Diego Trolley starting in 1981, nine years before the Los Angeles Metro Rail. Los Angeles was the largest city in America with no rapid transit for its time, with New York City and Chicago having rapid transit (in which they still do to this day).
Like you said about the high-speed rail at the end, there should have been a conversion of the Surf Line to a high-speed rail corridor, just like the Northeast Corridor. Amtrak directly owns 623 miles of track and operates an additional 132 miles of track, which some of those tracks are in Southern California (Correct me if I am wrong). There have been plans to upgrade the Surf Line to Class 6 trackage, which can go at 110 MPH. But however, funding has yet to be given.
The Los Angeles Metro Rail A and E lines run on former interurban right-of-way, which was the Pacific Electric. Los Angeles Metro Rail is one of the light rail systems that have portions that run on former interurban right-of-ways, with others being the Baltimore Light RailLink and the SEPTA 101 and 102, with the Norristown High Speed Line being heavy rail line, the Chicago "L" Yellow Line running former right-of-way, and the South Shore Line being the only surviving true interurban line in America.
Lastly, for original concepts of the Los Angeles Metro Rail, for subway lines, there were going to be similar to BART cars in San Francisco, which they are 5 ft 6 in. Their final concepts were based on Budd cars used in Miami and Baltimore, which are standard gauge. Similarly, for the light rail, the cars were originally Siemens-Düewag U2 electric multiple units used in Frankfurt, San Diego, Edmonton, and Calgary. However, Japanese company, Nippon Sharyo won the contract.
I like your comment! I also remember some of this. I always like the public transportation in San Diego
@dianethulin1700 Dude, San Diego is a beautiful city. Their trolley system even has diesel freight trains operated by the San Diego & Imperial Valley Railroad (formerly operated by the Southern Pacific Transportation Company).
@@AmtrakFunkandDiscoFan I had an old boyfriend who was from Birdrock South and he knew how to get around by train and bus. I always like to go to that old fashioned theme park with the indoor pool and mellow roller coaster
@@dianethulin1700 Cool
I heard it was Judge Doom who wanted rid of the Redcar
I heard someone else got framed for it
"Only a 'toon could come up with an idea like that!!!"
Never trusted that guy.
Yotam said that the government has made progress toward implementing the agreement in order not only nbtg
This is a big problem in the United States, many railroads are owned by freight trains and they don't like to have passenger railroads operating on their tracks. Here in Northern Virginia, VRE operates on tracks owned by CSX. CSX limits they when they operate and sometimes causes delays
Ewwww. 60s era bullshit because LA and it's surrounding Greater LA really did fuck up back then. Totally dependent on cars when we had so much more, only now are we barely getting back into having proper transit.
I took Metrolink for granted growing up. Sure, LA is pisspoor in transit for being the 2nd largest city, especially compared to its 1st and 3rd place rivals, but it’s still possible to get most places in the city by transit, even if it will be an expensive and long journey
Thom, best part of the video @3:11, LOL!!!😂👍💯
Thank you thank you
Absolutely loved it between 3:12 and 3:50
Hopefully more of these are coming
When the need arises haha
Good story. Thanks.
You’re welcome!
Yes, very good information. Also liked the discussion by the companies you dramatized. Cool!
Typically enjoy your videos, but I outright LOVED this one! Keep up the awesome work, Mr. Thom!
~k
You had me worried in the first half!
@@Thom-TRA my apologies for worrying you... I was just trying to be a little creative (AKA not boring) with my compliment 😅
@@KevinHarrington1979 it worked!
@@Thom-TRA BTW, have you ever looked at the (IMHO) abysmal transit situation in Sacramento, CA? I would love to hear your thoughts!
I ride Metrolink & Amtrak for work everyday going to Van Nuys from LA, I see old SP, Santa Fe, Pacific Electric remains all along the track routes that the train follows. Now everything makes sense.
Yep, there’s a lot of hidden history!
I'm just waiting for the Metrolink SCORE project to come into effect in October. Because although Metrolink is a cool service with a lot more coverage than people know. It's really hampered by one train per hour.
Like yesterday I was hauling ass from school in the rain to get on Metrolink down to Burbank to hangout with friends. And I kid you not, right as I arrived the train was leaving. And since another train wasn't coming for another hour I basically just had to cancel my plans and head back home. Whereas had another train come in 15 minutes (like what they're aiming for in SCORE) I could have just waited.
It also didn't help that Northridge station is in a super inconvenient location that's counterintuitively really far from the main arterial road of Reseda. Tbh Northridge station has to be one of the worst train stations in the world. Thank God they're planning on moving it in the next couple of years
I didn’t realize SCORE was starting so soon already
I lived in L. A. in 1982. I never heard the name "Cal Train" used in conjunction with the L.A./Oxnard service.
I guess we all learn something new every day
3:48 I died 💀😭
I’ll speak at your funeral
@@Thom-TRA thanks 😭
Well, Metrolink is a better name anyways.
Will you be doing a LA Metro video soon? would like to hear your views and opinions on county system of Transit
I have done several. My second-most popular video ever was on the K Line.
@@Thom-TRASo would you agree, LA Metro is probably the most extensive and best light rail network in the US? Other than the two underground lines, the bulk of the LA Metro lines use light rail rolling stock if I recall.
Yeah I remember friends of mine and I rode the early LA Metro link. I rode the early LA light rail back in the day. Come a long long way. That's pretty quick and 30 years or so 35 years
She better be charged with moth than that...
I been SAYIN this (haven't even seen it yet)
Wow! Great job. I learned some great L.A. history from your always informative videos. 👍
Thank you!
@@Thom-TRAthank you for producing this video, also never knew about LA's short-lived Caltrain!
Unfortunately the train ride from LA to Oxnard is much longer than it needs to be due to the winding route taken along the mountains instead of through the pass that the 101 takes (likely too steep). All taken into account, it’s about twice as long as driving
I love your CalTrain story, I even drive the CalTrain on Trian Sim World aka TSW. 😊❤
Nice!
You can now drive Metrolink Antelope Valley Line. San Bernardino line coming soon.
@@utahrailfan1946 I believe it has already has release on TSW4
@@SuperDave30Antelope Valley is out, San Bernardino has yet too come.
@@utahrailfan1946 oh ok I definitely can’t wait to play it.
That poor guy at the end. I hope the wait for the next train wasn't too long.
One of my best friends lives in LA and I visit him regularly. The first couple of times I visited him, I rented a car, only to realize it was a huge waste of money just leaving the car in front of his house, because we'd just take Metro almost anywhere we needed to go, and he would insist on driving whenever we'd leave the LA Basin anyhow. On a couple of occasions during drives to or from Death Valley and the Eastern Sierra, we'd parallel the Antelope Valley Line between Lancaster and Burbank, with periods where railroad going off to some valley that was probably far more scenic than the dull expressway we were on. It looks like it goes through some interesting countryside, so it is my goal to ride that line to its end the next time I go to LA...
AVL is supposed to be pretty scenic, probably the most scenic commuter train in the US. You can sort of experience it in Train Sim World 4, the route is in the sim.
I’ve been on the Antelope Valley, the views are amazing!
I'll check it out! Having spent my years in college and after riding the MBTA's Rockport/Newburyport Commuter Rail line, I know scenic commuter trains. Much of its run north of Salem is along the coast and is very scenic as it passes through small villages and historic ports, the rocky Cape Ann coastline, fruit orchards, farmland, and coastal marshes, etc. so I think a comparison run is in order (though I suspect it's a non-comparable apples and oranges thing)
Love the re-enactment, reminded me of your video on tenders, a favourite of mine
You have a great memory! I'm actually working on another skit right now
Great video and I learned something new. I have a feeling that skit is exactly how it went down back in the day 😆
Especially the drama
@@Thom-TRA It's not a transit project without drama but for what it's worth, you do see some progress in the end.
Let's just hope that Caltrain and other transit projects continue to grow into the future 👍
Why do freight rail companies hate trains?
They like their own trains lol
Aw man, that argument part almost sounds like a verbal wrestling match. John Cenaaaaaaa
If LA keeps expanding its public transit then it'll have the potential to become one of the best cities on planet earth!
Another great video. I was living in LA in 1978 but was not aware of all this going on other then that the traffic was bad. I remember Baxter Ward, he was a new anchor on channel 7 before going into politics. Last visited down there in 2022 and it seems like traffic in LA is so much worse than it was back then even with all these transit options.
It’s funny to hear people share their memories of people like Baxter Ward! Did he come across as a nice guy?
I’ve loved Caltrain since I was 4, and this surprised me
7:06 I always stood on the stairs when the train was moving when I used to take metra to work. Rules seem to be different in California lol
Wish the SCRRA could have gotten the rest of the right of way from Oceanside to San Diego at the time.
Think of how passinger ridership could have gotten alot better since travels wouldn't have to transfer from Coaster to Metrolink when going to SB or LA.
Yes there's amtrak but think on how affordable it would have been to ride metrolink from SD to LA.
That would have been a long ride on a commuter seat!
Who missed their train at the end? Whoops! 😂
Luckily he was headed in the other direction so it was the wrong train
My dad worked for the State of California for 19 yrs ( EDD : Employment Development Dept AKA the Unemployment office, CDPSS, : Cal Deot of Social Services community care
divisson. Basically he worked in the division that licensed Child cate centers and preschools in 1992 and CPUC , Public Utilities Commission from 1992 - 1995 ( when he passed.)and had several coworkers who lived in other areas of SoCal ( San Fernando ( Burbank, Universal City, and Northridge) , Santa Clarita, and Antelope Valleys ( Lancaster and Palmdale, the Inland Empire ( San Bernardino and Riverside Counties) who when MetroLink first started rolling loved it because they didn't have to get up before dawn just to make it to work in Downtown LA. The earthquake Thom eluded to that happened in 1994 was the Northridge earthquake. It was the most destructive earthquake in California history, I think the 1906 SF quake and The Lona Pieta SF 1989 quake were 2nd and 3rd the most destructive quakes respectively. Pres Clinton declared the majority of LA county a national disaster area which paved the way for federal resources like FEMA to come in.
I hope I honored him in my PUC impression
Love that argument around 3:50! Very well cut! made me LOL
As long as freights still run, I'm ok with it. lol
IMHO The feds should nationalize the main west coast line and upgrade it to NEC standards or better. It would probably cost less than the insane price tag of CAHSR. While they're at it they should do the same on the east coast and extend the NEC all the way to Florida.
With the geography and population density of the Coastline, you aren't getting anything faster than 50mph.
Really enjoyed this awesome video and history of Caltrain. Your thorough investigation and historical documentation as well as your reenactment and the hungry hungry hippos were just absolutely awesome!!! Thank you!!!
It was a great mix of a lot of stuff!
Crazy to see how long the transit fight in CA/LA has been. What could have been if we had the current momentum (which even still has a lot of hangups) back when this started.
I’m happy they finally have the momentum, but you are right. Or if they had modernized the Pacific Electric instead.
And look what came of Southern Pacific 14 years later in 1996!
Karma
@@Thom-TRA not to mention many other palces in California and Nevada that should have more passenger rail or more frequent passenger rail!
Unfortunately in present times UP RR has been even more reluctant to accomodating additional Passenger trains on their tracks,unless the states or feds are willing to pony up the money for socalled improvements!
The Southern Pacific of 1982 and 1996 were completely different animals. That late SP with Phil Anschultz was very supportive of passenger trains.
I started my railroad career at Caltrain (then a division of Amtrak) in 2004. Never knew any of this!
Where are you now?
Interesting! Never knew that a Caltrain like sercvice exsited in L.A!
It’s a little-known fact that
Who do you require disposing of.
0:41 Budd SPV2000 🤨
Yeah, it’s a track geometry vehicle
Let's be honest, we all know what we're here for: 3:48
When even “academic dishonesty” says let’s be honest, you know it’s a big moment
Yo Thom! That censor effect was pretty genius (though it caught me off guard)!
European countries are way ahead of the US when it comes to commuter rail service specially with high speed rail service. Europeans are more inclined to use commuter rail service and improve the environment by using electric rail service. In the US travelers want to use their own cars, consequently burning up more carbon fuel and causing more pollution. It’s a cultural issue about method of travel.
yeah! You can even see it in europe with germany; another car fanatic country with a chronically underfunded rail service....
Terrific video! "Goed gedaan! Hartelijk dank."
Geen probleem!
What happens to all the diesel units and gallery cars bumped by electrification?
Early 1990s CalTrain supplied a F40 and gallery cars consist for an Orange County commuter line with Amtrak ticket cross honoring.
Considering how old they all are I’d say it’s time to retire
@@Thom-TRA they were built in the early 1980s. They got use life left.
@@centredoorplugsthornton4112 yeah that’s 40 years ago. I wish any agency taking over such old stock good luck marketing that.
Cool 😎
Cool cool
I loved the dramatic recreation! Southern Pacific sounds like the worst.
All American freight railroads are awful to deal with and awful to work for. Their armies of lobbyists have done more to hamstring rail travel in the US than even the auto industry. UPRR and BNSF routinely appear on the lists of worst companies to work for.
Southern Pacific was actively opposed to any expansion of passenger trains on their tracks. They were the worst railroad Amtrak had to deal with in its early years.
That’s so cool. Caltrain has a very interesting story.
Yes it does!
Caltrain actually leased cars to Metrolink in the 1994 Northridge earthquake so Caltrain basically ran in LA for some time
That, and everything else I talk about in the video
@@Thom-TRAYou should do a video on the craziness that was the building of the AVL after the Northridge quake. If I recall it was built in a week or so.
@@mrvwbug4423 I have
I remember Chris Ferguson rode the short lived SP service. He used to hangout in Fullerton but I have not seen him in years.
I don’t think I know Chris Ferguson
@@Thom-TRA He was a regular at Fullerton and sometimes Santa Ana in the 1980's and later. I have lost track of him. Quite knowlegable.
I get the impression that Southern Railroad was the main stumbling block but then there was this “wall of opposition”, so was a complex picture.
Seems the government has to own the railroads so not to be beholden to a freight operator.
And this is why Amtrak is forever cursed to have slow, often delayed service as they're at the mercy of freight operators most places outside of the NEC. No signaling upgrades or upgrade/removal of grade crossings to facilitate going faster than 79mph as the freight railroads see no need for it. Amtrak is supposed to get priority over freight but it's normal for freight dispatchers to make Amtrak sit in the siding because 1.5mi long freight trains don't fit in most sidings. While they take 20+ minutes to trundle by at whatever speed they can manage (only intermodal consists usually get decent power, everything else will be underpowered).
@@mrvwbug4423The freight railroads (UP specifically) would allow Amtrak to upgrade their lines, but Amtrak would have to pay for it in whole.
@@mikehawk2003IMHO the feds should've nationalized the rail lines back during the cold war as a strategic asset, then they could upgrade and electrify to their hearts content (well as much as congressional funding will allow). Just have the private freight railroads pay an access fee to use it (that would probably cost less than they currently pay for maintenance on their own lines).
After living in LA for a bit as a student of musicians Institute in Hollywood; I got pretty used to riding the transit routes, along with navigating bus routes, since I didn’t drive at the time. Even if I drive today, I do like the leisurely option of taking the surf liner from San Diego to LA, and using the transit connections.
All the same, who would dream of resurrecting the old Pacific electric transit system with the standards of the current metro routes? If those routes timed well enough with usual traffic patterns, and were well-maintained; who would ride them like once upon a time? I certainly would, and because I am such a huge nut for train history, (even if the Santa Fe and southern pacific were corporate machines like described), I sometimes wish I could at least ride metro link across the entire original Pasadena subdivision from LA Union Station, through Pasadena, and all the way to San Bernardino. At least that metro line is possibly being extended to Pomona to connect with metro link; which I used to ride over to San Bernardino during my musicians Institute years to see the train museum at the station.
Happy rail fanning!
Restoring the Pacific Electric would be amazing
@@Thom-TRA I have learned over time, that it was a subsidiary of the southern pacific, that largely Hispanic and African-American communities would use it to commute to downtown LA, the SP allowing the system to fall into disrepair, racism, and the who framed Roger rabbit conspiracy of Chevron, GM, and a large tire company conspiring to take over.
If you’ve ever been to Felipe the original French dip restaurant near LA Union Station; they have a vintage map of the original Pacific electric system.
@@rypatmackrock there is definitely a generous amount of historical mistakes for us to learn from
@@Thom-TRA and that is why I have concluded that some people, (and why we sometimes hear the news regarding such), want to withhold that information or stop it from being taught to the next generation so we are not inspired to take these lessons and rise up against the oligarchy. I say that with conviction at this point.
I expected this would be a case where both co-existed for awhile, but the LA service was merged into Metrolink
Sort of, Metrolink did not start until 10 years after Caltrain ended.
@@Thom-TRA I was thinking how various streetcar/bus companies often merged into one or two present operators in most major cities (at least in the US) and simply it was too much to manage two separate systems (which around 250mi apart from their furthest extents)
@@history_leisure once again, there were never two Caltrains at the same time.
Thank you... Great video
Glad you liked it!
i love how the metra caltrain look-a-like in the thumbnail looks like its about to fall over lol
also no way el camino, another breaking bad reference
Kind of a reference to its shaky existence
Great and informative video of the short lived CalTrain that ran in SoCal from October 1982 to March 1983.
Thanks for the review!
It’s a good day when we get a new TRA video.
Today is a good day!
Dang, outro clip shows a poor guy missing his train :(
Good thing is he was going the other way so it wasn’t his train
@@Thom-TRA *phew*
I enjoyed that video👍👍
Glad you enjoyed it!
Brilliant video sir
Thank you!
Fascinating. I never knew about that. It reminds me a lot of Norfolk Southern. Fun fact if you didn't know, there was a short line called Norfolk Southern long before the Norfolk Southern we know today existed. That got bought out by Southern Railway and eventually when Southern and N&W were put in a holding company, they called it Norfolk Southern (Norfolk Southern wasn't an official railroad of its own until 1990 I believe but the name dates back to 1982). Also I loved that little debate reenactment.
That’s so interesting! Where did the old Norfolk Southern run?
@@Thom-TRA South out of Norfolk.
@@Thom-TRA I don't know much about the line but I believe it ran from Norfolk south into various parts of North Carolina. The current Norfolk Southern actually has an original Norfolk Southern heritage unit (it was one of 2 schemes they had that I know of. The other one was a white background with black letters. There's an old locomotive with that scheme at the Spencer railway museum)
Those don’t have green windows. (Take notes metra)
Some metra trains don’t either
1/3rd of the Southern Pacific Gallery Car fleet (those used in this version of Caltrain) had green windows
Great history, and I loved the skit!
Thanks!
I think the Metra trains look good but do they have single seats on the upper deck so the conductor could check tickets from the center aisle?
Yes, they do. Feel free to watch some of my Metra videos for more information.
@@Thom-TRA Thanks, in Melbourne, we have this Myki system where cards a validated on departure and arrival. No need to check tickets on board and no need to design trains for ticket checking.
Sometimes with the huge cost of having a ticketing system, might be cheaper to have free public transport.
We’re often told that the fare we pay is a tiny propotion of running costs, be interesting to deduct cost of ticketing system.
Only thing, the government tried to introduce free public transport on weekends in the late ‘70s but that increased the number of roving gangs of youths looking for trouble (gangs don’t pay the fare anyway), so maybe a ticketing system only need to record who travels without deducting a cost so people won’t trash the trains.
@@darylcheshire1618Fares serve another purpose as well. It keeps the trains from turning into mobile encampments for the unhoused. Back last summer when RTD in Denver ran free services in July and August they had to step up security on the trains to keep people from camping out on them.
@@mrvwbug4423 Ahh once I had an all-lines ticket for trains in NSW and I travelled from Sydney to Goulburn and return overnight to avoid paying for overnight accommodation in (expensive) Sydney.
I think that’s something done in Europe by tourist pass holders.