Marc-André Hamelin teaches SYMMETRICAL INVERSION at the Piano
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2024
- 0:00 Exercises for the Mind & Fingers
1:24 What is symmetrical inversion?
3:12 Bach in symmetrical inversion
4:22 Chopin and Weber in symmetrical inversion
Watch Hamelin's "Exercises for the Mind & Fingers": campaigns.tonebase.co/piano/h...
Filmed: Jan 30, 2023
Venue: WGBH Fraser, Boston
Director: Ben Laude
Videographer: Daniel Kurganov
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This concept also works really well with scales! Every major scale has a “symmetrical” counterpart - it’s just the scale that has the same number of the opposite accidental. For example, A major has three sharps, so its “mirror” scale is Eb major (3 flats). You can practice the exact same fingerings and motions in both hands by playing A major in your right hand and Eb in your left, playing in contrary motion around a mirror note (D or Ab). Very efficient way to get fluent with scales, and more interesting than the typical up-and-down patterns.
I never thought of that. That’s actually really interesting.
Merci beaucoup. I'll try it.
An even more interesting thing is that if you take the chord A major, find it’s symmetrical chord which is C minor, you get the symmetrical scale of A major; because C minor is the relative minor of E♭.
It easiest to view it on bass clef, because the middle line of D. everything is symmetrical above and below. F# above inverts to Bb below.
Modes: D Dorian above is D Dorian below. C major scale inverts to E phrygian. F lydian inverts to B locrian. G mixolydian inverted is A aeolian.
Now that you say that I recall that in my teens my classical teacher was trying a bit to get me to do those, so it seems like it is reasonably standard in classical training?
Yes! I fondly remember Marc-André explaining symmetrical inversion on the Japanese SuperVirtuoso documentary. That documentary was an absolute cult classic in the online Pianophile community - and was pretty hard to find until it surfaced on TH-cam!
That's where I first heard about it too. Consider this the updated remake of that scene! And there's a lot more on the way...
@@tonebasePiano His knowledge of the piano repertoire is phenomenal - I discovered so many amazing composers from his recordings. I really wish more famous pianists would use their platform to promote lesser-known composers like Alkan, Medtner, Feinberg etc. like he does.
The thing I admire about his choices of repertoire is that it is never 'obscure for the sake of obscure' - he unearths only the pure gold - I am sure he has sightread through thousands upon thousands of mediocre works and only shares with us the music he thinks truly deserves a spotlight.
@@MofosOfMetalYou might be interested in Artur Cimirro’s performances! He’s also a supervirtuoso and has somehow found even more obscure works than Hamelin has haha.
Yeah, we all remember too that stupid japanese journalist nodding with stupid awe at every (intelligent) word of Marc-André.... 😏
@@69EBubu good god you sound annoying
Marc -Andre
Thank you for sharing
Amazing advanced symmetrical Inversion
Idea and Techniques
GOD BLESS
Amazing get. I will watch all things Hamelin. He has such an incredible intellect and knowledge of all things piano, and I really hope he bottles as much of it as possible for the rest of us to absorb.
There's a lot more on the way, and also I hope it's not the last time we work together. For a man of his world-historic talent, he's extraordinarily humble.
I LOVE Marc-André Hamelin! It would be awesome for him to do a video on Gaspard de la nuit (since he awesomely played that bit of Scarbo in the beginning)
For those interested in symmetrical inversion I highly recommend Vincent Persichetti’s Reflective Keyboard Studies and Mirror Etudes.
Agreed (although his name is spelled "Persichetti"). They are fantastic, interesting music as well as being technically useful. There is also a sonata by Persichetti using this technique, as well as a beginner's collection called "Little Mirror Book".
@@alkanista Thanks, fixed the typo. 🙂
Finally masterclasses with hamelin. He is the greatest!
Wow! Lovely! Thank you.
Thank you kindly🤍
Hamelin is one of the most underrated and under-celebrated piano virtuosos of all time.
He has excellent technical skills, but not as perfect as Volodos, Kocsis or Argerich. He is a quality musician however was never able to create legendary interpretations of the classical repertoire, but rather shine in less known musics, as Alkan or Busoni. He is performing a great career and plays everywhere, so he is very well rated, is just that he never got the aura of a great interpreter. I can't think of any work by Bach, Liszt, Mozart, Beethoven, Schumann or Chopin were when listening to Hamelin I felt "this is the only way such can be played, it is so convincing and inspired". It's good and well played.
A much respected and talented pianist which put a lot of work to bring to the light many musics probably unjustly forgotten. And also very good arranger with many funny additions, then a decent composer.
@@Paroles_et_Musique I think he is one of the greatest pianist-composer alive
@@Paroles_et_Musique I disagree with him not being as technically proficient as Argerich, though she plays with a greater depth of emotion in my opinion. I think Hamelin, Volodos, and Katsaris are the most technically gifted pianists of our era.
@@Paroles_et_Musique I have to respectfully disagree with you, and also your comment proves my point. His cadenza for the Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 is one of the most awe inspiring compositions/feats of technical wizardry ever put to the piano. His humble nature, quiet attitude, and lack of flash is why he is so under-appreciated -- not the reasons that you mentioned. But again, this is only my opinion, and I respect your opinion as well.
@@Paroles_et_Musique sorry but I disagree Argerich Kocsis and Volodos although all Great techniques dont have quite as good as H amelin I'm a pianist and have studied thousands of hours of all their playing and have come to that conclusion. Although you're obviously allowed your opinion
Of course you're forgetting katsaris and Sokolov. Even Pletnev among many others
Just amazing.
Symmetric inversion has been very helpful for me to figure out proper and optimal hand movements
Wow I love this, thank you for this video
Thank you
Insightful video! Thoughtful approach to symmetrical inversion.
My favorite Pianist!!!! Thank you!
Amazing that you were able to speak with this living legend
Super. Na pewno z tego skorzystam. Dziękuję.
I love this man, he is in another level. Thank you for sharing with us!
Thank you. I plan to incorporate this idea into my practice immediately.
GREAT!
thanks for the help in understanding fate vs hope in the prelude. Will see it differently now when practicing it. Gave me shivers and strong mixed emotion when you interpreted it!
This is just brilliant! Thank you for posting this!
I like to play the first 20 Hanon exercises in contrary motion, but never thought of experimenting with Bach that way, even though it was apparent that Bach used the mirrors in his compositions.
It’s great to see Marc-André Hamelin speak - and share this fun technical treat - after years of being a fan of playing. Thanks!
Amazing and very helpful
This video makes me soooo happy. I've always tought about Symmetrical Inversion and I've created some exercises over this concept and it's great to now that a great pianist is talking about it!
This is awesome. I've been working on achoring myself in the keyboard's symmetry for the last year or so and it has worked wonders for my tonal freedom. This is such a cool concept to develop the left hand while also strengthening my "foothold" on that symmetry. Thanks for sharing this!
Absolutely amazing! That guy must practice A LOT! Must find and listen to some of his stuff. Thanks and thumbs up!
GENIALE!!! ...
👍👍👍👍👍
👏👏👏👏👏
BRAVO!!!
This is awesome, and something I do from time to time, but never have really incorporated it into my practice routine in a structured way. gonna check out this course for sure
Thank you for this insight! As a violinist who also plays piano, I found the concept of equal development in both hands to be one of the largest hurdles in technique. Symmetrical inversion is a very nice way to both develop the hands in equal proportion and also improve the visualisation of the keyboard itself.
That is terrific. I was very fortunate that i had a wonderful piano teacher who made me do all my technical work for several years on a three to one ratio. As a result my left had was never inferior to my right.
Wow, I never imagined to see a piano course by Hamelin on the internet...great stuff!
The concept of symmetrical inversion is actually pretty obvious once it's been described, but it's easily missed because it requires you to separate out the musical component of piano playing from the purely mechanical component. It's one of those things which is probably more likely to be discovered by a child learning the piano for the first time than a pianist with years of playing under their belt, because it's in those early learning stages that so much focus is placed on the mechanical.
Oh hi!
Great content. I used to do this with Chopin's op. 25 n°6 with the thirds. Thats how i though my left hand to do thirds. Keep up with this videos!
Thank you for finally getting maestro Hamelin! I practice symmetrical inversions for pretty much every piece I learn. Easily one of the best practice methods ever. Very glad Hamelin decided to tell more people about it.
@@Toutuu98 the hemispheres are the brain are crosswired, symmetrical inversion trains areas of the brain which normally wouldn’t be used. So if you have a hard passage for the right hand, translating it over to the left improves how well you can play the right in a way you normally never could.
@@Toutuu98I’ll add on that there are sometimes useful/colorful notes embedded in otherwise taken-for-granted left hand passages that this technique will help develop & bring out with richness.
@@Toutuu98 Definitely don't dismiss anything Hamelin says when it comes to piano! He is a prodigy and always had a lot of talent, but his technique is the greatest of all time because he worked very deliberately to master the instrument.
Your son will benefit greatly from symmetrical inversion, maybe eventually he'll even be playing Hamelin's etudes!
@@Toutuu98 Another thing this does- M A H mentioned this can sound 'weird' - however the weirdness can inspire in another sense the possibility of being creative - of coming across patterns of sound for further improvisation and/or composition - which would be my question to Mr Hamelin - to what extent has this practice endeavor helped your composing?
Since you seem to know more about this: I have difficulties in playing left hand jump bases (basetone + chord), for instance in Chopins Nocturne Op 9 No. 2 - the chords go up to Bb1, how do I practice that with inversion without crossing my hands?
If I’m not misremembering, Chick Corea also endorsed this practice technique. It’s a wonderful way to practice, and one can indeed find musical value in it as well, as Bartók did, and you can also pick any note as a mirror (though this of course will lead to completely different fingerings between the hands), and one can also use a note in between the cracks of the piano (a quarter tone). But I’m merely a guitar player, so these are not things that I am adept at doing by any means.
Yes, Chick Corea mentioned this on video a few times. I think he said he got it originally from the Rossamandi technical method, as taught by his first teacher Salvatore Sullo.
@@tenorman1971 Many thanks! I'll surely look into it...
Yep
Also Vincent persichetti put out a book of technical exercises based on the concept.
Facts
He’s performing here in Montreal tomorrow. Yes!
Good to know this is a thing! I've done this in the past with the Fantasy Impromptu, but it's not something I've seen discussed before. Definitely a fun workout for an underpowered left hand.
Wow, that's really mind blowing, I'll definitely try it, thank you...
I have practiced scales and was aware of the importance of training my left hand BUT never actually thought of the 2 keys as center points, not to mention converting musical pieces into "symmetrical inversion "! Marc-Andre is not only a genius in finding great value in "minute things," but making the ideas seem "simple" so that everyone can understand and get into "practice "!
Thank you for the invaluable video!
Saw him in Chicago last week, the Dukas and Hammerklavier were well received
Can’t wait to try this with Hamelin Etude No.7!
I like the idea. If you took MIDI nodes and mirrored them around D or Ab, you could get the intended notes, which is better for feedback.
We use the same technique in track and field, at least in the throwing events. Try going through all the footwork for putting the shot or throwing discus, but do it 'backwards' with your non-dominant hand, and somehow your good arm feels much more at ease. I never thought of doing the same thing on the piano.
Mind blown!
I can't believe it, I actually did not know this information! Mind blown, thanks.😊
Great video, thank you all so much 🙏
There is somewhere in the tube a Chick's Corea video teaching the same concept. Barry Harris something similar, and probably Bill Evans Too. And Collier. But Hamelin does it an stratosferic level!
And beautifully. Not so weird the left hand inversions... well, it's Bach after all ;)
Hamelin's re-creation of the Chopin-Godowsky-(Hamelin) "Triple Etude" is so much fun! What a technique! What a mind!
Enlightening
🎹 It's a really helpful technique not just to develop your left hand, but to learn any difficult passage in a more solid way. The right hand may also benefit :)
For instance, my left hand is better in big leaps, and the right hand learns from it the wrist position and hand/arm movements when "taking off, flying, landing". And sometimes I even discover, to my surprise, that a certain passage where I supposed my right hand to be better - is, in fact, easier for the left hand in symmetrical inversion. In any case, in difficult cases I usually find that trying to exercise the other hand symmetrically (together and separately) makes it easier afterwards for the target hand. Bingo ))
Wow! That is so cool! I have a Master’s degree in Piano and never knew this! Thank you! I till try it!
I was reading a book about russian pianists and Samuil Feinberg actually mentioned doing this as well. So it's a very good technique that has stood the test of time
Real self-taught method!! Amazing!
I'm so excited to start this. I'm a self taught pianist and I've been wanting my left hand to catch up to my right. So I've been just practicing the same motions on my left.
Now this concept will make things alot more interesting and "challenging" to get under my fingers. Can't wait to incorporate this in my practice routine.
I didn't know this way of practicing. But I was taught a related 'trick' in which 'the right hand teaches the left hand'. It consist in inverting the (left hand) difficult passage and playing it as the maestro showed and then remove the right hand, it seems magic but the left hand can play after this.
I had this same discovery at some point during my practicing. I've used it to try out fingerings in both hands!
I think he'd make a great teacher when he's done performing and composing. He's got a lot of charisma and obviously his knowledge of music is immense.
He does in fact teach piano at New England Conservatory in Boston. Very hard to get in though!!
@@magnusstephensen4874 I didn't know that. I bet it is lol
Absolutely love Hamelin. He signed my copies of Alkan's op. 39 etudes and the Grande Sonate
This is world class I'm at my piano now thank you.
This advise is absolutely amazing. I had thought of the same method before but never done it until this video encouraged me. I used it when i tried hammerklavier 4th movement fugue for the first time. The melody of left hand looked easy but needed a strong left hand to play fast, so i cheated and tried the symmetry thing. It took a while to find the corresponding melody for right hand but it's just like magic that after 3 minutes i remove right hand and hear melody flows out smoothly and steadily under left hand. But i didn't stop practicing it because i was afraid of suddenly losing the magic just like suddenly getting it. Also, i use a digital piano so if i found the symmetrical melody too annoying i can just turn off the volume.
Wow very interesting idea
A video of MAH teaching piano?!? Am i dreaming?! To my knowledge, he has never given masterclasses or taught students officially, this makes me feel even more privileged while watching this video.
This looks really good. Thanks for doing these. Will consider your "Exercises for the Mind & Fingers" by Master Hamelin. I've used mirroring to finger left hand passages. By writing out the mirror of the left hand for the passage you'd like to finger for the right hand. You then finger the right hand mirrored image. Then transfer those fingerings to the left hand. Since your right hand is more intelligent in choosing natural fingerings. I use this for jazz lines too. For Ex., write out the mirror image of the Jazz standard Donna Lee. In all keys too. Then use the right hand mirrored manuscript to finger and transfer those to the left hand playing Donna Lee melody. And you will have a natural fingering that your less intelligent left hand would not find. While this seems tedious, even laborious, it may be the fastest way to achieving a technically sufficient, if not completely equal, left hand. It is very important and effectively useful to listen to the sound the right hand gets, and get that same crackling sound with the left hand. Reach over and play the left hand line with the right hand. Then notice how coordinated the right hand is in achieving the sound. And copy that too. The right hand becomes the teacher of the left.
🎵🎹He is one of my two favorite ❤pianists wizard 🧙♂️
Спасибо за видео! Очень интересно.
I think that another good point in this might be of an overview of the geometrical patterns of piano and the relation to the music being played.
Lots of people nowadays learn piano through the unconventional way, the Synthesia software (or things alike). I myself did that for years, and considering that I started at a late age with no proper teacher, it went pretty well.
The geometry patterns indicates well the proportions used in music and also tackles finger technique and other things.
I wonder if Hamelin is done with his Henle Rach 3, I'm ready to buy :)
Interesting! I would typically use this when I have a hard left-hand part by figuring out the symmetrical right hand part, feeling how my (much stronger) RH plays that, and then going for the same technique with my LH on the actual LH part.
By the way, I try to do everything with right and left hand alike, for instance brushing teeth, just to develop the weaker hand too. There are other things in the bathroom which I used to do with only one hand which I don't want to describe here in greater detail, but I do these things also with the other hand too now. Also mounting a bicycle, there is a well developed side to swing my body on a bike and another one which is being developed at present ... and so on. It is good for our brain to do everything this and that way. // By the way, this professor in the video is a wonderful man.
This makes Isidor Philippe’s exercises look like Mary Had a Little Lamb!
phenomenal stuff….
A 3.52 son "Voilà" est exquis 😉
Despite not being the most tech-savvy man, Hamelin’s presence on the internet is easily one of the most important things in the online community of piano music. He’s given so, so much of his artistry to the internet, and that’s because he’s a true champion of obscure - and still wonderful - music. I’m happy to see that he’s collaborated with y’all and continuing to provide us with so much.
Very much fun with this methods ! But I cannot believe this !
We are humans and not technical perfect machines.
You can understand the important difference here ?
@@ulrichraisch3437 I think you misunderstood my comment. When I say Hamelin is not “tech-savvy,” I mean he is not very good with technology 😅 His techniques are very good!!
@@Varooooooom :
Sophisticated, I think.
His technique to practise with " symmetrical inversion " is a time killer.
My opinion !
@@ulrichraisch3437 When you determine a better way to develop the left hand’s technique, let me know!
@@Varooooooom :
And not only better tecnology, but better ideas for example from " master poetry ".
If someone has no content to talk for example from " master poetry ",
fast fingers and indepedent hands will not help for that missing content -
and will not move emotions !
I hope You can understand now ?
I've done this myself before. Worked very well. I didn't know this was a standard thing. Thought I was the only one who did it. Sometimes, my left is even better than right.
I've been watching Hamelin since the early Google video days, when he was chubby with glasses and the videos were in terrible quality. This is so amazing to see!
Cool
Nice! It's sort like contrary motion, but with some 'adjustment'. Or - it actually is contrary type motion.
Hold up, you aren't lying. I've been so stuck with looking at C that I never realized it's symetrical about D. Thanks for the perspective.
Seymour Fink wrote about this in his technique book. I read that when I was in college during the Bush era. Good stuff.
The C-System chromatic accordian with freebase is actually an inversion on the left hand. This makes more sence on the accordian because one's hands are already seperated.
Excellent demonstration, but I am left wondering what the benefits of doing this are. No doubt there are some, but they are not explained? Developing the left hand can also be done by playing multi-voiced music, e.g. the Bach inventions and sinfonias.
I was also wondering, same question. I guess it will be explained in more detail in the premium course. Which is fine, but a couple more summarasing sentences of the benefits would have been helpful to get a feeling of what this can do.
He mentioned that most pieces are more demanding of the right hand, so if you just play most pieces your left hand will be underdeveloped. This way, you can use the symmetrical version of a song that’s demanding of the right hand to improve the dexterity and technique of the left.
Ever do Hanon exercises? It’s the same concept.
I came to know Hamelin from his complete Scriabin sonatas on Hyperion mamy many years ago and I instantly thought he's a music genius
Can you post the full interview of Hamelin?
Wow... I've been playing piano for almost 20 years by now, having the keyboard under my eyes and nose almost everyday, I and never saw the keyboard with that perspective. I believe the reason is that we are introduced to the piano being taught to sit properly along the C4 (or C3) axis, which is the middle of the entire keyboard. Than we start practicing fingering from that C also being introduced to the scales concept. From that perspective it makes clear how a slight difference on the fundaments can even change things in ways that sometimes we can't even see something that is obvious, which in this case makes it pretty genius.
I believe Cecil Taylor used this technique too in his improvisations and/or compositions. Sounds like it anyway. Great practice for improvisers.
Interesting, I’ve also found playing the right hand part in octaves or double octaves with the left hand is helpful
It is an idea that was already developed by Rudolph Ganz (1877-1972). I can really recommend his exercises.
Yes, Hamelin specifically mentioned how he learnt about this technique from Ganz's exercise book, when he brought up the same topic in the Supervirtuoso documentary.
Tengo sus. grabaciones muy buenas.
Master
I would like to have four pianos: one normal, one inverted and two simmetric from the centre, one from d and another from a flat. With those four pianos to train myself should be amazing musically and mentally
Love to see this guy tackle some Coldplay. Really feel it could push his playing to the next level.
Srsly tho, Hamelin probably would find a way to add something to a song like "Clocks." And I believe Chris Martin is very much "into" classical music so he probably would be thrilled to have Hamelin play.
Nothing new here, at least for me. The great pianist Stanley Cowell explained the mirror concept to me many years ago and I've been using it in my improvisation (sparingly) ever since.
However, what Bach wrote is so perfect that I wouldn't want to mess it up.
I've actually practiced with symmetrical inversion when I started practicing Chopin's Op 10 No 2. I mostly wanted strength in the weak fingers of both hands, it was less about learning music and muscle training. Playing Bach for instance in this way would probably be a much more beneficial practice(and a hardcore one, since there is already so much complexity for both hands). Hand equality is a conplete myth for me. I try my best to practice in a balanced way but my right hand still dominates. It's at a point where playing hands together there are moments (like trilling in the left hand and playing the melody line in the right) when the right hand hogs all the focus in the brain from the left which is the exact opposite result I want.
For trill in one hand and melody in the other, try Bach's G major two part invention which has both.
As a grand student of Rudolph Ganz, I approve this message!
I studied with Rudolph’s nephew, Felix in Chicago, and he never talked about this particular practice method so this is the first time I’m hearing about it however, I am fortunate enough to have RG‘s exercise manual.
that is so cool. I wish i understood it. How does he decide where to start the left hand? is he starting on the note that is closest to either D or Ab?
que copado
I never played a piano as my main instrument but did learn on organ. These techniques seem like everyday styles for me. A great video though.
Ref. Borah Bergman's concert of mirror etudes that I read about in keyboard magazine thirty years ago or so.
Can you post the entire interview? The mini course is extremely short.
I just saw him performing Brahms 1st and 2nd concerto in Bremen and hearing him play in person is absolutely amazing
At practice that technique when I'm practicing chromatic scales starting at D or a flat.
Years ago I learned the first part of Feux Follets RH (after the intro) mirrored in the left hand - trust me, it sounds VILE and it is no fun at all :) :) :)