8:54 - starts 12:25 intro's 16:30 discussion 33:39 plants score higher in non-linearity, predictability, and complexity when they have a support structure than one without. 1:12:52 break 1:22:33 return 1:31:57 critiques and limitations of intellectual inquiry 2:21:48 end
2:08:34 when I speak about plant cognition in terms of transhumanism - that is when I don't experience backlash. I could see how the biology sectors would spark backlash - as most of their experiments involve animal and plant experimentation - so to say these have cognition would make their ability to conduct experiments go away. But there's others who want to respect life and care about increasing the intelligence of life on earth to ascend continuously to higher levels of being are more open to these discussions. These people tend to not want to cause harm to any being if we can achieve a state of not relying on any living being to sustain ourselves - like if we edited our genes to become autotrophs, turn into robots, or digitize ourselves - if we don't have to. Then we can achieve respect and learn from them. It's people who keep seeking that further our abilities to understand what's just within our each if we grab out to it. Others who don't want to, don't have to - but shouldn't get in the way of furthering our collective knowledge growth if it's not harming anyone (or if it is - it's for the betterment of the planet - like upending animal agricultural industries if it means not harming animals, etc.).
Thanks! This was one of the topics that motivated us originally to set up a multidisciplinary society. Particularly the work of Paco Calvo, he is one of the main names in plant cognition these days.
@@SEMF I'm really obsessed with plant neurobiology, because the justifications for eating plants is the same used for animals long ago - that they aren't sentience, can't think, have no emotions, only react, etc. If we push past the arguments from ignorance we realize all life (and non-life) is worthy of equal respect to care for them. Thanks for furthering the intellectual pursuit. Hey I'll put this channel on my vegan youtube channel list then :)
1:04:00 I agree - there's a difference between the nervous system using photons for neurological and bodily processes and having vision. I mean there's a certain 'vision' that takes place with acquiring photons from the environment. In that way, I would say that plants do see. It's another to think about mental imagery generated from light that gives us the ability to have a visual picture of what's going on. See we use photons from the eyes to go to an optic nerve - that's not really different than what plants do. The question now is if plants create a mental picture of the envrionment or are they just reacting to light to grow? We know the latter is true, but somehow I feel like there's hints that the former might be true too. I just don't know any proof that plants conjure up the visual picture of the environment like animals do - but I'm not ruling it out.
2:15:51 I do believe that the separation of disciplines leads to animosity - which is why SEMF is great. I feel multi-disciplinary approaches lead to a better understanding - by making us conscious of what we don't know to push the boundaries of our thoughts to new, untapped realms.
54:00 communication in the brain is mechanical based - via phonons. If we think of the entire human body as one large brain all parts of the neural communication is carried out either via photons or phonons - but even with photons (like a neural electrical signal) - it's still all mechanical moving of body parts - this is because consciousness exists outside of the brain and gets to our brain via mechanical movement of body parts (i.e. mechanoreceptors, etc.)
plants have a proto-nervous system to our own that operates almost the same way but uses magnesium instead of calcium for ions of the neural firing. I mean calcium is still used heavily in a plant - otherwise foods like barley grass wouldn't be so high in calcium! Like our bodies - plants use their entire body as one brain. They might even have a centralized brain somewhere in its base (plant-stem area) - but I don't know any research on that.
I remember something about how plants had an ability to feel vibrations in the ground and they use those to grow. So it might be that the vibrations that a pole would have compared to the environment helps the plant find it. I feel there's more than one receptor plants have. I think this one is a gravitational receptor from when they're a seed, but I bet it's a combination of light, mechano-vibrations, etc. to help it know. I heard that plants emit clicks in its roots for echolocation - so they definitely do that through sound at least!
54:33 I think it does. It's possible taht plants might use ecolocation via photons (they might use light to build a map of an area) or sound (like slime molds discussed in th-cam.com/video/jLiHLDrOTW8/w-d-xo.html&lc=Ugxv05PZvy63pMIx9wZ4AaABAg.9hris2X7XVg9htmBORdMLW ). This would be a great place to research.
8:54 - starts
12:25 intro's
16:30 discussion
33:39 plants score higher in non-linearity, predictability, and complexity when they have a support structure than one without.
1:12:52 break
1:22:33 return
1:31:57 critiques and limitations of intellectual inquiry
2:21:48 end
2:08:34 when I speak about plant cognition in terms of transhumanism - that is when I don't experience backlash. I could see how the biology sectors would spark backlash - as most of their experiments involve animal and plant experimentation - so to say these have cognition would make their ability to conduct experiments go away. But there's others who want to respect life and care about increasing the intelligence of life on earth to ascend continuously to higher levels of being are more open to these discussions. These people tend to not want to cause harm to any being if we can achieve a state of not relying on any living being to sustain ourselves - like if we edited our genes to become autotrophs, turn into robots, or digitize ourselves - if we don't have to. Then we can achieve respect and learn from them. It's people who keep seeking that further our abilities to understand what's just within our each if we grab out to it. Others who don't want to, don't have to - but shouldn't get in the way of furthering our collective knowledge growth if it's not harming anyone (or if it is - it's for the betterment of the planet - like upending animal agricultural industries if it means not harming animals, etc.).
plants have cognitive capabilities! I trust SEMF to have the best insights on this :)
Thanks! This was one of the topics that motivated us originally to set up a multidisciplinary society. Particularly the work of Paco Calvo, he is one of the main names in plant cognition these days.
@@SEMF I'm really obsessed with plant neurobiology, because the justifications for eating plants is the same used for animals long ago - that they aren't sentience, can't think, have no emotions, only react, etc. If we push past the arguments from ignorance we realize all life (and non-life) is worthy of equal respect to care for them. Thanks for furthering the intellectual pursuit. Hey I'll put this channel on my vegan youtube channel list then :)
@@extropiantranshuman That's what we are here for! Glad that you enjoyed our content, much more to come!
1:04:00 I agree - there's a difference between the nervous system using photons for neurological and bodily processes and having vision. I mean there's a certain 'vision' that takes place with acquiring photons from the environment. In that way, I would say that plants do see. It's another to think about mental imagery generated from light that gives us the ability to have a visual picture of what's going on. See we use photons from the eyes to go to an optic nerve - that's not really different than what plants do. The question now is if plants create a mental picture of the envrionment or are they just reacting to light to grow? We know the latter is true, but somehow I feel like there's hints that the former might be true too. I just don't know any proof that plants conjure up the visual picture of the environment like animals do - but I'm not ruling it out.
2:15:51 I do believe that the separation of disciplines leads to animosity - which is why SEMF is great. I feel multi-disciplinary approaches lead to a better understanding - by making us conscious of what we don't know to push the boundaries of our thoughts to new, untapped realms.
That's exactly our philosophy!
54:00 communication in the brain is mechanical based - via phonons. If we think of the entire human body as one large brain all parts of the neural communication is carried out either via photons or phonons - but even with photons (like a neural electrical signal) - it's still all mechanical moving of body parts - this is because consciousness exists outside of the brain and gets to our brain via mechanical movement of body parts (i.e. mechanoreceptors, etc.)
plants have a proto-nervous system to our own that operates almost the same way but uses magnesium instead of calcium for ions of the neural firing. I mean calcium is still used heavily in a plant - otherwise foods like barley grass wouldn't be so high in calcium! Like our bodies - plants use their entire body as one brain. They might even have a centralized brain somewhere in its base (plant-stem area) - but I don't know any research on that.
I remember something about how plants had an ability to feel vibrations in the ground and they use those to grow. So it might be that the vibrations that a pole would have compared to the environment helps the plant find it. I feel there's more than one receptor plants have. I think this one is a gravitational receptor from when they're a seed, but I bet it's a combination of light, mechano-vibrations, etc. to help it know. I heard that plants emit clicks in its roots for echolocation - so they definitely do that through sound at least!
I love the wavy grid surface mesh moving background in the back
54:33 I think it does. It's possible taht plants might use ecolocation via photons (they might use light to build a map of an area) or sound (like slime molds discussed in th-cam.com/video/jLiHLDrOTW8/w-d-xo.html&lc=Ugxv05PZvy63pMIx9wZ4AaABAg.9hris2X7XVg9htmBORdMLW ). This would be a great place to research.
I see this title - instant like!
9:49 I agree
11:06 these are all heavily integrated within each other - making up the backbone of society.
54:07 there are no opposites - mechanics and vibrations happen at the same time - through something called phonons.