Got worse at Heroes. Sonic Adventure (1 & 2) sold over 8M each. (The 2.5M on Dreamcast wasn't the FULL amount, they sold tons on GameCube, PSN, Xbox Live, etc.) Heroes is where the drop from it's lowest point CD and 3 & Knuckles with less than 7M dropped further to a meagre 3.4M and only eent down from there until Frontiers.
The declining quality, exaggerated tonal shift, and broken launch that occured in succession with Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, and Sonic 06 was probably what did it.
my problem with adventure 2 is the fact that it requires you to enjoy ALL of the play styles. You don't get the choice of playing through whichever story you want at your own pace and it gets difficult trying to master each character's moveset since you're always switching between them. It also sucks that they removed the hub world as well. It makes the game seem bigger in scope yes but I'd prefer an Unleashed type of hub world where you can talk to the humans who are experiencing the game in real time just as you are.
Bro just get a save that unlocks all the levels and play sonic and shadow stages only besides no sonic game has a good hub world they're just time wasters with a few boring mission and some power ups the latter could've easily been given at the end of certain level while trimming the fat
@@tounsi_m7ashesh That's a good thing tho for speedrunning and getting better times. The game actually encourages that you skip chunks of the level by placing one ups in spots that players wouldn't ever look. If you jump onto the building in speed highway at the beginning of the level you can spindash up the building and there'll be a one up waiting for you. That area is only accessible because of how busted the spindash is. From there you can spindash off of the building and skip a huge chunk of the level. SA1 rewards you for learning and utilizing its level design with the spindash and getting an understanding of its mechanics. It activately wants you to use its busted mechanics
FUN FACT: the reason why tails in a mech is because he wasn't originally planned for the game, but the put him in last minute because the fans wanted him in the game. And the reason why knuckles radar is bullshit was to prolong game time
I absolutely agree with your points. I do seem to like Gamma's gameplay more than most, but SA2 does a lot differently that frustrates me in the same way that the changes to Knuckles' gameplay does for you. The mech stages no longer have the time limit, which can make the combo system seem even less relevant. The changes to turning and the lack of a 'roll mode' makes moving around incredibly awkward, which i guess is "realistic" but in all the worst ways. also I haven't played gamma's campaign as recently as SA2, but I swear to Christ, the homing sound was not as ear-grading
While the digging is better in SA2. But some of the levels for Knuckles are better in SA1 since it requires you to go above rather than tight corridors.
absolutely agree with almost every point, but i think the spindash delay nerf sorta makes sense since it was pretty much a spammy boost button in SA1. I didn't find this an issue because unfortunately SA2's level design doesn't actively incentivize you to even use the spindash because there are loads of dash panels that propel you forwards anyways and there aren't a lot of spindash jumps to skip sections. people like to complain that the boost games are so automated which is true, but they also forget that the Adventure games were guilty of it too and SA2 is especially cluttered with a bunch of automation within the Sonic/Shadow stages. They aren't bad stages, but I don't think it was the right direction to take after SA1. it just doesn't fit Sonic with the classic momentum based gameplay that everyone is begging for these days
This is a good point! It definitely can be spammed but that kind of adds to the replay value for me personally, Sonic moves at such a high speed when you spam the spindash that it isn't super practical and definitely not to the level of the boost formula where you pretty much want to always abuse it. I could be wrong, but I feel like the spindash jump particularly is something that was 100% incentivized through SA1's level design and agree that SA2 doesn't seem to care about the spindash at all, kind of just including it out of obligation.
I don't think you understand these games at all if you call SA2 automated because it isn't that different from SA1 and the classic games. Outside the scripted events (Which were also present in SA1 and in both games tend to be rare occasions) SA2 uses automation to a fair degree, dashpads are placed in a way to propel the player to reach a really high area that you normally wouldn't reach without enough speed, redirecting the player in unavoidable situations, etc, only in rare occasions where it's needed. The classic games and SA1 did the same thing, so I find it very weird that you call these stages automated despite their automation being just as much as in those games. In the boost games the levels are built on automation, it's a completely different thing from SA2, you're very restricted in your movement and ways to overcome the stages which is why people complain so much. SA2 is a momentum based platformer, just like the classic games, and it arguably does it in a more accurate way to those games than SA1. The spindash is still relevant and can be used in a lot of different situations, SA2 has a lot of curved terrain and the player can use that spindash to turn into ball form and roll down and build up speed and then use that speed in different ways, City Escape is a great example of this. You can also use the terrain to skip some platforming as well, just like in SA1, the difference is that SA2's level design is less broken than in that game since in SA1 it was easier to do this and skip chunks of level design in unintended ways, in SA2 you can't just easily skip a portion of the level design, you can skip some platforming sections without breaking the game, which works much better. Not only that but SA2 also offers more movement options as well, the bounce bracelet can be used in a lot of different ways in combination with the terrain and the other Sonic movements, not only that but you also have more platforming gimmicks like rail grinding and jumping ramps that are physics based. So I find it funny that you say it doesn't fit the classic momentum based gameplay, when it absolutely does. Levels like Final Rush, City Escape, and Sky Rail are some of the closest things to the gameplay of the classic levels in 3D and SA2 speed stages in general manage to do this pretty well, it's not a 1:1 recreation, but it's very spot on, and even more than SA1.
@@PKSunset You're 3 months late, discussion already ended. But either way, my point still stands, most of this video is mindless criticism and comes in bad faith. SA1 is a beautiful game, but it's also quite shallow in comparison with most of the first decade of Sonic games, SA1 lacks the complexity in level design of S3&k and the in-depth mechanics and moveset of SA2, a lot of the stuff in the game like the spindash is just very fuckbusted and rarely punishes you for mindlessly playing, it's a more casual friendly experience compared with the other games from the megadrive/dreamcast, the other gameplay styles range from decent fun to very shallow. I can understand why people love this game so much and prefer it over 2, but it doesn't hold the same candle as other games like S3&k, CD, or it's sequel, good game but massively overrated and most of it's praise comes from how mindless this game can be, a great example of this would be how easily you can break Tails stages or how you can finish Knuckles levels in less than a minute with not that much effort.
I agree with some of your points, but I prefer Sonic Adventure 2 due to the ranking system, replayabilty, and streamlining of the formula.With Sonic Adventure, I don't really have a drive to go back to the game. And yes Gamma controls better than Tails/Eggman, but due to Sa2's superior scoring and rank system, I constantly replay those stages to get high scores. I think the main reason I like Sa2 over Sa1 is that Sonic Adventure is more open, encouraging exploration more than perfecting a perfect route and I think that is what separates the fans of both games. Sonic Adventure is more like the Classics. Sonic Adventure 2 is more like the Boost games. (also Sa1 is not objectively better lol)
I think the OBJECTIVE decision cannot be made with these games, because two games have both ups and downs that are close to being equal, and as you said, both have completely different gameplay loops.
I Find it funny how this video is a big as opinion thing and is I am assuming supposed to encourage people to state their honest opinion's on the topic but when you do well you don't get a heart while everyone that agrees does this dude sucks I was gonna hear the guy out but because of this he now comes off like a person that says they can take an opinion but actually cannot
@@wishbushwashbosh6443 Fair enough, I know Heroes is worse than both Adventure games, but I like it for it's simplicity, and how it's easy to pick where it got things right and wrong, as opposed to the more complicated discussions with SA1 and SA2
For me, hub locations in SA1 are peak, it's above the time and have nice immersive feeling that you not just play through levels but it's a whole world, really like an adventure
Honestly, you pointed out basically every reason why I prefer Sonic Adventure to Sonic Adventure 2. Like, I get it, y’all don’t like big, it’s not like it was physically painful to play as him. Can we move on? Being able to play as any character you want whenever you want was great. I don’t appreciate being stuck on an aggravating Tails mission trying to get to the next sonic mission. Also, every time I die in Sonic Adventure, I feel like it’s my fault, in Sonic Adventure 2, it’s almost always because the game forgot to game for a second.
I agree with this. Adventure 2 having the mechs and the overwhelming treasure hunting that makes Sonic Adventure 2 not as fun as Adventure 1. Adventure 1 kept the pace better. Adventure 1's stories felt like they focused on the character in the situation, unlike 2. 2 felt like they were playable, just to be playable. I don't agree with how you view the Sonic series as a whole. But this video's topic is something I agree with.
im not sure how to feel about the title saying its *objectively* better but i did always prefer the structure of SA1 however i think SA2's speed stages are better and more replayable
I feel like if I saw this a year ago I might've agreed with it but having played both games back to back it's hard to go back to SA1. For one thing 2's levels feel more fleshed out since they aren't just carved out pieces of level from Sonic's campaign and while they do a lot of asset reuse, the actual design of the levels is different enough to set them apart and I generally find the optional missions for each act more fun than the ones in Adventure 1. Plus, I just really like the ranking system and the way score is handled in the levels. I will agree requiring the player to engage with all the playstyles was pretty stupid though, I mostly enjoy them now but even as a kid I thought this was a pretty significant downgrade from the first game which generally let you play the game however you wanted. I'm a bit iffy on things like the emerald radar since don't find the change to be a negative as it brings some much needed longevity to levels that you could easily beat in 30 seconds in the first game (helps that the hint system was reworked too) but in certain levels like Death Chamber and Mad Space, the old radar would've been preferable.
The point about the treasure hunting stages in SA2 I can kind of understand, but I think that artificially extending the levels the way they did with the butchered radar and bigger stages was just a bad way to go about it. It kind of makes some stages overstay their welcome, especially Death Chamber and Mad Space. Sure a lot of SA1’s treasure hunting stages were a cakewalk, but I don’t feel like handicapping the player is a good solution to that problem. Maybe a compromise between the two, like bigger stages but with SA1’s hints or something like that, would’ve kept the stages at a reasonable length
@@kyleh1494 I can definitely see that side of things. For me though I don't mind it since it works well with the way hints work now and it gives them more importance since the radar isn't so strong. One common misconception (even for me up until a year ago) about the treasure hunting stages is that you can't use hints if your going for A ranks which is false. With level knowledge you can get by on one hint for each and still get an A rank while making a beeline towards them and not bothering with anything else. It's a good system in my eyes but I can understand why not everyone would be the biggest fan of it.
SA1 is about Momentum. SA2 is about Flow. SA1 has plenty of sloped surfaces and tubular level design that allows for the characters to build up a lot of speed in the 3D space -- however, it'll oftentimes segment levels between these hi-speed action sections and more freestyle open zones in which you have to find a slower way around a smaller area. These sections rarely cross over or interfere with each other. This is how each stage works fine in all 6 gameplay styles despite maintaining the same layouts. SA2 continues the trend with sloped surfaces and areas where you can build up speed, but this is generally a reward for good flow. Much like the boost games that come after, it requires you to make quick, reflexive decisions based on level design. This is reinforced by the new combo score and ranking system introduced in Adventure 2, pushing you to find the best flow in order to get the best time. Believe it or not, this is also applicable to the treasure hunting and mech stages, in which the former is mostly based on time (which can be gamed by recognizing spawn patterns of the emerald shards -- they're almost always in a decent proximity to each other) and the latter being mostly based on shooting combos (Cosmic Wall is an incredibly satisfying stage partially because of the combos you can get.) Neither one is bad or good compared to the other -- they're just focused on different things, and I wish your video title would reflect that better. On that note, a lot of the sound issues come from the fact that the Dreamcast handled sound differently than any other system the game's since been ported to. Normally, extremely loud tracks would pick up an "overdrive"(? Not sure if that's the correct term here but I'll roll with it) sound to them and the volume would not go above a certain level. This was used to make the music sound crunchier during intense cutscenes without artificially laying on digital effects.
I agree and I think when discussing both of these games the objectivity is thrown out of the window because in that point of time it just boils down to matter of preference so saying one is "objectively better" is kind of stupid in my opinion not to mention in my eyes he also missed so much stuff about sa2 and why its so beloved
You're under a misconception here, both games are about momentum. SA1 has a lot of curved terrain that the player can use in several ways like in the classic sonic games, you're right about that, and this works the exact same way in SA2. SA2 is not based on "flow", the stages are not based on quick reflexive decisions outside of the very rare occasions of swinging poles and slides that are pretty irrelevant through the whole stage, the ways to gain score are way more varied and often rely more on actions like chaining attacks, exploring and collecting items, even making creative use of the terrain and time, and the stages have many of this so the player can get an A rank in many different ways. But the ranking is not the focus, it's just another of the many ways the game offers to play these stages, you can easily ignore ranks and play the stages normally because the stages are build for that and the main focus is momentum based platforming, even more than SA1. Even in the rest of gameplay styles you can also go purely for time and ignoring most of the score if you want to since they're also built for several playstyles, the treasure hunting stages are a better example since even outside the main objective you have a lot of exploration to enhance your score, or abuse the hint system and get the best time possible without caring about your A rank. In SA2 you have several ways to build up speed like the terrain itself, the rails, the jumping ramps, etc, and use that to do several things such as reaching different points or enhancing your momentum, there are a lot of times where you need to do this to overcome an obstacle, like in the classic games, but this time thanks to the expanded moveset and new platforming mechanics you have way more options than in SA1, and in order to get the best time you need to rely on this and not on getting more score like with the A rank, and even if it's not the only requirement for the ranking system you can completely ignore it and do it anyway since the game still records your best time. In the boost games you're pretty much just restricted to one way to play the levels and it relies on fast reaction obstacles instead of physics like the adventure games, so I really don't get your comparison. SA2 is not focused on different things, it's pretty much a refined version of the best gameplay styles from SA1, because the speed gameplay isn't really that different from the one in SA2 other than being more streamlined, and the ranking system just gives the player a reward for interacting more with the score elements the stages have.
@@croc6105 Respectfully, I disagree. SA2's stages are about flow, and if you can't see that then I have to question if you actually understand the game. To be clear, I am not calling into question whether or not SA2 still features momentum or involves momentum in its speed stages -- it does. But that isn't the core of the gameplay like it is in SA1. See, in SA1 you have spectacles of momentum like part 2 of Emerald Coast with loops and sloped ramps, part 2 of Windy Valley with a vertical segment where you travel down a long ramp, almost all of Speed Highway and its long stretches of road and sides of buildings... In all of these, much of it's long, speedy romps with almost nothing to get in the way of you and your momentum. SA2, on the other hand, reels these in and makes them more focused segments of a stage before throwing you into something else. In City Escape, it opens with a streetboarding section where you have to focus on keeping up your momentum before it tosses you abruptly into the first area where you're greeted with multiple ways to continue. You can go up stairs, or grind up a rail. Once you reach the top, you're greeted with a robot you can either go right into a homing attack for or somersault through to keep moving forward. To the left is a slope to run on. To the right, a trail of rings you can lightspeed dash on, etc. etc., most of the stages give you an abundance of options on how you approach and it leaves it up to you to keep moving, find your best flow, and keep going. I'll say it again. SA2 is about Flow.
@@Samevi Ok, but how does your argument counters anything I said? Momentum is the core gameplay of SA2, arguably more important than in SA1, a lot of it's mechanics and level design is built around momentum physics, there are a huge amount of times where the player needs to make use of physics to progress through the level and even some moments where the game even rewards you for building a good amount of momentum with score, goodies, another path, etc. Your example of City Escape still doesn't prove anything about SA2 being about flow, those are several options the game offers you that benefits the player depending on the playstyle, and even then some of them require momentum, like the rails or the wall running, and heck this is still relevant through the whole stage, the game is constantly showing the player how far they can get if they make clever use of the terrain/rails/jumping ramps as well as maneuvering properly, which is why I don't agree with momentum not being the core gameplay of sa2 when it absolutely is, and it becomes even more relevant if you're going for time attack (which is also an intended way to play the game)
I personally enjoy the soundtrack more in SA1 and the story is also better and I really like how it ties into all the lore introduced up to that point. The treasure hunter levels are designed for the playstyle which makes it more fun but also more frustrating sometimes. Tails' gameplay style probably has to be the way it is because of the story, which I completely agree with you on the lenght of the levels. Sonic controls absolutely worse in this game however it is bearable and doesn't really create a problem imo, spindash jump is still very doable it's just slower now which doesn't really matter to me but it still minorly slows the pace down. I believe the fact that Sonic Team was learning how to make stuff on the Gamecube and the psychological pressure of becoming a 3rd party developer probably has impacted this game alot more than we think. Without these problems, maybe we could have gotten something better.
I don't think Gamma's gameplay is bland at all. It's only in SA2 that the mech gameplay gets bland and boring as it's stretched out to be 1/3 of the gameplay across the entire game. In SA1, the gameplay is only present in 1/7 stories (plus the Sky Chase sections if you count them, as they work similarly to the mech shooting). Gamma's levels are either too short to be notable (Final Egg), short enough to not get boring (Emerald Coast, Windy Valley) or interesting enough to be decent levels (Red Mountain, Hot Shelter). Not to mention his final boss is in the top 3 boss fights in the game Now, I get why SA2 opted to have Tails in his mech. Because it'd be really hard to make levels exclusively for Tails gameplay. In SA1, Tails goes through sections designed for Sonic. Either Tails would have to go through sections Sonic/Shadow already went through or have sections designed for his flight (like the end of Tail's Speed Highway) but it'd be impossible to stretch this gameplay out for 1/3 of the game and Sonic/Shadow stages are not designed to accommodate for Tail's flying gameplay like Sonic stages in SA1 are Knuckles/Rouge gameplay in SA2 would be undisputedly better than Knuckles SA1 gameplay if it weren't for the nerfed radar. In SA1, Knuckles stages are far too easy. Very small levels, a lot of springs and stuff to make it easy for him to get around and hint orbs which point you exactly where the emeralds are. SA2 makes it harder by making the stages larger, having a better hints system and a nerfed radar. These changes on their own make sense but altogether can make these stages last way too long for any newcomer Regarding the Sonic gameplay of SA2, the spin dash in SA1 would not work in SA2. For one thing with how the levels are designed, the game expects you to use level design to move forward in the level like the light dash, rail grinding, ramps, horizontal poles to swing off etc. The spin dash from SA1 would make this level design pretty pointless. The spin dash still comes in handy as you can still spin dash jump to reach certain sections, spin dash downhill to go really fast, spin dash onto rails to start off on the rails with a lot of speed. SA2 also introduces the bounce bracelet which brings its own layer to Sonic's gameplay. I think the speed gameplay on SA1 and SA2 both have their merits and honestly idk which one I prefer
Your last paragraph is true and something I should've touched on further, Sonic has a good moveset in Sonic Adventure 2 and the levels are designed around it, but I just personally feel that the more open and shortcut heavy design of SA1 is more fun and mechanically engaging. Thanks for watching!
Both are equal imo. As a kid I was annoyed that the hub worlds were gone in SA2. But SA2’s gameplay, story, chao Garden, soap shoes, 2player battle mode, & Shadow…. Truly made the game special. The music is also 10x better, which I couldn’t believe.
I liked the gamma stages myself compared to the mechs in SA2 for a couple reasons. Instead of getting combo shots just increasing your score, they give you extra time, which feels a lot more tangible to me. The stages also flow a lot better, and don’t force you to stop in a lot of places.
Man, As Someone who Loves Tails, It's *VERY* Disappointing that Tails is Stuck in his Handicap Robot, Plane, or Car, And Only Being Able to Acess Him without it in Chao World, and Even then It's just a Copy -Paste of SA1s Tails, and They Made His Tails as Stiff as a Log.
Do you know there’s a reason why they made the turning a little more *stiff* in comparison to the mech shooting in adventure 1 right? The reason is that it’s so that the aiming the lock on reticle would be easier.
I can definitely understand this opinion, ngl the title with "objectively" had me kinda worried this was going to be a video spoken like it was factual. I will add: do not say SA2 fans mostly like it because of nostalgia, not only is that generalising a big group of sonic fans, it's a flat out incorrect statement as I, did not grow up with SA2, yet I prefer it over SA1.
SO nice to hear this pretty unpopular take validated,.,.., i have a lot of love and respect for SA2 but I remember SA1 so much more fondly,.,. I really think that it comes down to if you prefer the other gameplay styles in SA1 or SA2 which dictates which one is your favorite. If you hate everyone elses campaigns in SA1, you're not gonna like it. If you hate everyone elses campaigns in SA2, you're not gonna like it. AND I WILL ALWAYS MOURN THE INSTA SPINDASSHHHH WAAAHH
I agree 100% what you're saying about Tails and Knuckles. The way they let you play as Tails in the Chao Garden used to drive me insane XD. Good video though
I feel like a big part of why SA1's reputation has fallen so far compared to SA2 is because of the DX ports, which introduced a lot of new glitches and downgraded or broke certain visual effects like the lighting, whereas SA2 Battle was largely unscathed in the transition between consoles. SADX and SA2B are the most accessible ways to play these games now, so a lot of first-time players only have this glitchy version of Adventure 1 to compare to a solid version of Adventure 2. Personally I like both games, but I do prefer SA1 in a lot of ways, mainly in how Sonic controls and how the different gameplay styles are separated into their own campaigns. To put it another way: the mods I consider essential for SA1 are mainly to do with fixing the DX version's problems, while the mods I consider essential for SA2 are all to fix things I disliked in the base game like the nerfed radar and the mech controls.
9:06 well there are still a lot of skips you can do in sa 2 as well from completely skipping the puzzle room in crazy gadget through some memorisation,to manually landing on upper platform in city escape using spindash rather than pole,skipping some of gravity tubes in final chase,building enough momentum and then jumping of at right time to access the upper rails in final rush etc. I think that while sa 2 is linear it in no shape or form distracts from its genesis or prequel's philosophy of momentum and using it in interesting ways thus also getting rewarded in the process
i personally replayed sonic adventure because i had never beat it bc of big the cat… i got a hang of it and actually enjoyed every single character as i played through it.
I think there's just not enough Sonic in either game , I do love that in SA1 you can run around in adventure fields , it felt bigger, and the atmospheric music (music without corny singing) is missing in the second game , also the NPCs, and those things made SA1 feel like an adventure
I've never been able to finish SA2 because the Knuckles stages were already my least favorite campaign in SA1 (yeah, I really don't mind the fishing), and not only did they take away the non-linearity of the first game, but they made Knuckles stages far worse. The mech stages are also worse than Gamma's stages. I'm really not sure why people seem to go easier on SA2.
Absolutely! Sonic Adventure 1 has a hub world environment where you can choose what to do. The fun is kind of sucked out of SA2 because it's more streamlined. The great thing about the Adventure games anyway is that they allowed you to control Sonic in various directions while all the games after were a case of holding down a button to make Sonic just keep running forward without any exploration.
I’ve had a binge of playing older Sonic games recently. As a child, I actually loved the Tails and Eggman levels the most in Adventure 2. I think I just liked shooting everything. As a 29 year old adult though playing them, they were more of a chore to go through. Out of the late 90s to 05 era, here is how I’d rate the games even though no one asked. Sonic Adventure 1 - Perfectly took the 2D Sonic formula into the 3D arena. Still hate Big’s levels. I got stuck on them as a kid and still felt frustrated as an adult on the mechanics. Sonic Adventure 2 - Perfectly builds on Adventure 1. It has issues but I’d rate it the same as the first. Sonic Heroes - Awful. I actually did not play it as a kid. But as an adult, thought it was awful. I hate the gameplay and how every level was seemingly just bottomless pits. Only redeeming quality is I thought the last boss fight was cool. Shadow the Hedgehog - I liked it as a kid. Played it again, and I actually still liked it. Yes, the story was poorly written. But I found the levels and gameplay solid. I even found the gun gameplay fun. My issue was beating it 10 times to get the true ending was a chore.
Agreed. I've replayed SA1 countless times, it's a very nostalgic game to me. As compared to SA2, which I've never beat once 😂 EDIT: I just beat SA2 for the first time. And yeah, I disagree with this video now. The levels being tailored specifically for each character makes them very fun and repayable, especially with the ranking system. I still like SA1 better but SA2 is a bit closer to it than I once thought.
subjectively* but yeah i like sa1 more than 2 as well but there are some things I would've gone over about the ranking system changing a little if i ever did a vid on it
6:57 well in my eyes the whole radar is nerfed thing is nothing but psychological because even if you had the og radar system the focus of the stages in sa2 is very different. In sa 1 it was all about hovering around aimlessly till your radar goes off whereas in sa 2 its about making good use of level design,movement, the hint system of the game and paying closer attention to surroundings because unlike sa 1 emeralds now spawn in very specific location opposed to anywhere on map,even some of the stages that are accused of being too big could be completed in 3-4 minutes provided you have good enough skills for example meteor herd it takes 15 seconds as max to reach from bottom to top provided you are making good use of level design not to mention hints themselves also help a lot like there is a hint about a gun robot in meteor herd and its the only robot in the entire level,there is a hint about dangerous water aka artificial chaos which are only 5 in number in the entire level etc. and about hints deducting your rank is a pure myth the only thing that they really affect is score you get for each emerald which in first place isn't that affected and secondly can be more than made up with your time bonus In short i think sa 1 treasure hunt is something that while is fun overall suffers from lack of challenge,replaybility and especially bland level design which doesn't fully require any sort of mastery whereas adventure 2's levels reward you for your mastery of the level and mechanics But hey we can still agree to disagree right? :)
In my personal opinion, I actually prefer SA2. To address the styles in the room. Some of these criticisms are valid. I agree that the radar is dumb in Knuckles' stages and placing 5 emerald shards with the SA1 Radar would have been a better method if they wanted to extend the stages. And yes, Tails doesn't feel as smooth as Gamma did. But these have reason behind them. Tails was a last minute decision and even then, the mech stages improves his character through his tech and are rewarding to master. Knuckles stages with more replays gets more rewarding and actually becomes the easiest set of stages to A Rank. As for the Blue Hedgehog in the room, Yes, Sonic does feel different but it WORKS. SA1's spindash wouldn't be as useful in SA2 since the game is more linear. The same could be said for plopping SA2 Sonic in SA1 due to the delayed Spindash. Not being able to Spindash Spam doesn't immediately make SA2 Sonic worse. With that said. The biggest downside of SA2 Sonic is the same button syndrome and the levels for the most part doesn't have this issue come up on a casual playthrough. As for SA1, I actually like the majority of it. Take a good guess what part I am not too fond of playing again. Most of the gameplay styles are fun. It's just that I feel like SA2 for the most part improved the existing ones and threw out what wasn't necessary. But that is just my two cents on the matter. I still respect your opinion.
I actually agree with this a lot. Especially about the part with the spin dash. I also like sonic adventure 2 more because it has a higher skill ceiling and the gameplay styles feel generally more fleshed out and properly realized and balanced. it also has the ranking system, which is a massive advantage because it has so much replayability while incentivizing players to explore how skill you can get. Better Chao garden, better pacing, better story, better way to tell that story. I could probably go on and flesh these opinions out more but I think you get the idea.
Honestly the overworlds and unskippable cutscenes in Adventure 1 are enough for me to prefer Adventure 2. Brings the game to a grinding hault. EDIT: Also, I love the spindash in Adventure 1 (and Adventure 2 to a slight lesser extent) for being able to do it anywhere, anytime. People loathe it in Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06 because you have to stop to use it, and I agree, but they're techniaclly just being more accurate to the 2D games lol. Spindash peaked with the Adventure games.
@@TroyVault it’s nerfed in terms of how you can’t spam them as proficiently. It’s actually more like the classic spin dash. I won’t act like the SA2 spin dash is instant but saying it ruins the pace is just wrong. It really doesn’t take long to hold and released a spin dash in sonic adventure 2 and when you do, it feels more powerful than sonic adventure 1 because it feels like a proper slingshot. I don’t really think it would add that much to the gameplay experience of Adventure 2 anyway considering how streamlined the level design is. I played it with mods, and I was pretty much right.
As someone who has much more nostalgia to 1 than 2, I still like 2 more. I love all the gameplay styles, sonic being, well, sonic. Tails is a bit Gamma-like but I really enjoy those stages, and Knuckles is a really fun little treasure hunt. I get what you’re saying about SA1 and I love that game to death, but 2 is so much more polished and I can’t really fault it (but honestly I’m really not a picky person).
Great video but if I can say one thing I completely disagree with 9:15. You can still spin dash jump as you please in SA2 if anything the sa2 spin dash is way more like the genesis one seeing you have to stop to use it anyways and the sa 1 spin dash is just too easy to use like the boost gameplay
I totally agree. I only played Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 for the first time a few months ago, and therefore don't have nostalgia for these games. Yeah I definitely prefer SA1...
THANK YOU for mentioning Sonic's controls, like the physics and spindash delay. i feel like nobody ever talks about that, sonic just jitters everywhere in adventure 2 and it feels like he always slows down vs adventure 1 where he controls like butter on a hot pan
I can enjoy big the cat but I prefer the SA2 Battle chao garden which for me is the biggest reason to replay missions. I also loved the huge treasure maps as they were fun to just explore.
I still like Adventure 1 more, but lately I have been softening up more on SA2 and its quirks. The changes to design are intentional and you need to take the time to soak in practicing a new mechanic or function, which definitely feels jarring at first, but once you learn it the flow goes way up. I don't mind the harder treasure missions with the radar because they do implement rules to the locations and the hint system, which while not explained well in game, make a lot more sense when you see someone talk about it. An emphasis on points makes you think not just about completion time, but efficiently dispatching enemies with combos, doing tricks and like oldschool sonic, trying to avoid getting hit to get that good ring count. My main complaints of SA2 is the less polished feeling gameplay and how overlong stages can get (ESPECIALLY Final Chase). I do agree trying to have equal amounts of levels for each type of gameplay was far too much and comes off as padding. The Hd version of the game is also kinda busted and makes the game feel worse, i just recently modded it enough to get it as close as it can get to the original intended gameplay aside from the rails (analog sensitivity is broken in the hd versions no matter what, for some reason). Sonic Adventure 1 just feels like a more solid, focused package, while SA2 is more about having more to do and challenging the player more.
Well the main problem with SA2 aside from what you said is it doesn't teach you its mechanics properly. There is no reason for a knuckles stage to take 10 minutes if you fully grasp how it works, but the game also doesn't make any effort to explain how it works properly. The only way to enjoy SA2 is by striving for A ranks and doing all of the missions because that's how you actually learn the proper way to play the game. I preferred SA1 until I went for the complete SA2 experience and also watched videos explaining how each playstyle actually works. Most of SA2's value is in replayability and side content like A rank, Chao Garden and Missions not so much the campaign. And SA2 Treasure hunting is certainly a pace breaker but not really a nerf imo, the maps are massive but also very fleshed out. The Omochaos give you alot of information about different parts of the map and once you've fully explored and gained knowledge about them its as easy as gliding to the next emerald when you activate a hint box. Also a common misconception is that you lose points when doing that but only if you get more than 3 hints. But yeah I don't think you can fully enjoy SA2 if you just play the campaign, and definitely not on your first run. But while SA1 is a hit and run right out of the park, once you beat the campaign, I personally found no enjoyment in the metagame of ranks and missions and chao in SA1
Honestly, I agree with this pretty strongly. I actually really think there’s a lot of great stuff in SA2. It’s just that a lot of people can’t see that value when they’re missing contexts on some of the nuances of the gameplay styles. It’s sort of like seeing a newcomer play Mario 64 and complain about how crappy and clunky it feels. I highly recommend sonic adventure 2, but only to people who are somewhat interested in it, and to have a good amount of contexts for how to get the fullest experience out of it.
The omega stages in SA1 are almost mindless. In SA2 the score system is a massive improvement and for the first time ever in the series it incentives players to do better with a ranking. Not only that, but the missions after completing a stage are far more intuitive not only for the mech stages, but for all of them except the kart stages. I'd say those were a nightmare to complete. Sonic handles better in adventure 2 and has a much improved moveset. Again, for the first time in the series, the game gives you an incentive to perfect your abilities. The radar is better in SA1, but the ranking system and gridning will forever be associated with the series and we can thank SA2 for both. The list can go on but honestly those two mechanics alone make SA2 a big improvement and if you want to talk story then SA1 is really blown out of the water. No one except for die hards know or care about chaos. Most people who know Sonic know Shadow
I thought i was the only one that actually liked Adventure 1 more and honestly there is a lot more varierty in the way all characters play in adventure 1 and it has an adventure field which makes it feel more realistic
8:52 well i dont think they ruined it but rather that it just works differently here again with completely different focus sure i love spamdash in sa 1 but I don't see much use of it here in sa2 because Sonic is natively so fast for something that was ruined i would pick 06's spindash because not only did it required you to stop but also barely gave you any momentum in exchange
To be honest, I love SA1 way more than 2 thanks to the freedom it gives you. Compare the Sonic stages from SA1 and SA2. You get a ton of more space in SA1 to run around. In SA2 you're always moving forward. Not in a Sonic Forces way, but in a way that limits the freedom you have when it comes to free movement.
@@waff69 you must've played some fucked up version of SA2 from India if you think he controls like a car despite him being super precise like in SA1, I even got the physics tables for the game to prove you wrong lol
@@VirtuousAezon he controls like a car sometimes and he is not super precise in sa2 because sonic when he turns in a circle in sa2 its bigger while in sa1 you can turn in a small circle also when you spin the analog stick in sa2 it is just walking regularly and sa1 has sonic doing a strange as hell dance also the homing attack has tricks in sa2 and the homing attack in sa2 requires more input than sa1 homing attack i remember sometimes when i should homing attack i just die
@wafftheweirdsonicguy this is just untrue and sounds like an opinion some youtuber said with no credibility lol, you're definitely playing SA2 from India bro
@@VirtuousAezon your probably using a mod that changes the physics or you cant tell the difference good you probably cant tell the difference between sonic unleasheds physics to sa2 physics also your probably playing an indian version instead because i also played it on my xbox so you probably just run in a straight line without caring at all
My first time playing the adventure games was around a month ago. I can say without a doubt that I enjoyed Adventure 1 more than 2. The spin dash in 1 alone is enough reason why I liked it more.
I just can't agree. I think the level design for 2 although still jank, is far more focused and tailored to each character which helps make them enjoyable to traverse, the power ups make more sense (light speed dash being instant, bounce bracelet), and give more replayability (mystic melody, sunglasses etc) and you cannot say that Big the Cat is not a part of the game. You have to do it to beat it, it's like only playing the Hero story of SA2 or the Chao Garden. And in terms of story, SA2's is just far better. Presentation, writing, characterization, voice acting, literally everything about it. It feels like the arguments are unfocused. You praise and defend Gamma for being button mashy, but then rip on Tails gameplay which means.... Gamma's gameplay is bad? So then both Big and Gamma suck, but at least the levels are "shorter" ? Then the radar got unnecessarily nerfed in SA2, but.... Mods help keep SA1 looking and feeling great so shouldn't I just download a mod to fix that? You can't minimize it to just nostalgia. I love both Adventure games and there are legitimate reasons people favor one or the other and legitimate problems with each. I like the speed of SA2 Sonic and Shadow, and rail grinding though jank was an immensely cool addition to the gameplay, but Sonic did control a lot better in SA1 and the spindash was much better and snappy. I like the idea of hub worlds and I'm glad they brought them back with more focus in Unleashed, something SA2 really lacked. I say all this to say it isn't just blind fanboyism on my end as there's a lot to love about SA1. But half of the game's characters were either mindless or unfun to play, some mechanics like Tails' slap were useless as opposed to those in SA2, and you still had to play all six stories to get your money's worth from the game just like you had to play both stories in SA2.
For me level design in sa 1 was fantastic and better than sa2 and I really found myself having fun at least for Sonic stages the rest of the playstyles(except big) while fun for the first time wasn't that engaging for me in the long run so every time I boot up this game its about completing those side challenges in sonic stages(almost 30 hrs worth of time) as for sa2 I adore that game and since the first time i played it I have spent 100 hrs worth of time in it from A ranking every single main mission(except for mad space)to completing the game itself 5 times that game in my eyes was far more challenging,rewarding and polished than sa1 its kind of a game that just gets better and better the more time you sunk in it mastering all of its mechanics
I dont agree but i see where you're coming from. SA1 has a more magical Sonic element to the levels... and SA2 is more radical and intense. Which is kinda what Sonics design was going for in a sense. But i do think Sonic controls somewhat better in SA1 atleast.
8:30 i thinks that's because unlike sa 1 the game is more focused on linear action opposed to open ended level design that adventure 1 had which is why I feel sa 2 sonic works better for its stages not to mention he is also faster than sa 1 Sonic
i have never played sa2 because i just didn't have it but i did play sa1 and i sort of got stuck in the hub world because i was in another story thinking it would play the same as sonic story
you can beat some knuckles stages in under 20 seconds, but of course that's only when you get the hang of the level. first time playing and taking 10 minutes to finish makes sense, but it only gets faster and faster each time you replay the level
6:32 i respectfully disagree I have personally A ranked all of their stages and turns out it was only eternal engine and cosmic wall that exceeded the 4 minute mark the rest of the levels were actually just as long as sonic stages in the game for me
I grew up with the 16 bit era, the Dreamcast era, and ended on Heroes. I was obsessed as a kid, but I just hate almost everything Sonic did post Sega Genesis. Total unpolished jank during the Adventure era, then from Heroes to the 360 games, it goes from jank mismanaged garbage and transitions into the "Do you like running in a straight line while a stupid story plays out and your eyes glaze over? That's Sonic for the next 15 to 20 years, enjoy, that'll be another $60 every time" era. Only worthwhile games are Sonic 2, 3, & Knuckles, Triple Trouble, and Mania. The GBA games look solid gameplay-wise, and not aesthetically, but I never played them.
My only positives for SA 2 is that it's more SA, plus you get eggman as a playable character and when he's petting the chao in the chao garden he says Y o s h, and getting max rank on every stage and its challenges are very challenging; really putting my skills to the test. What i don't like about it.... is because eggman's in a mech and both hero/dark characters mirror their respective playstyles, i can't enjoy tails without his mech except in the chao garden, and the knuckles/Rouge stages were artificially made more tedious, with only detecting one shard at a time and every specific ones, unlike SA 1 where if you were within distance you could just.... get that shard piece and then move on to the remaining ones. I'm not gonna list every detail, but SA 1 gave you more variety, even if the story fumbles at times, and then everyone is forced to play a very unfun game of big the cats fishing adventure starring Froggy, oh and sonic spazzs out occasionally tho i find it funny lol.
Sonic Adventure 2 is a generational hallmark for a certain age group and it's criticism-proof, that's just the way it is. SA1 was and still is very rough, but other than the Sonic/Shadow levels, I prefer SA1 over SA2
I think the problem with Tails stages in SA1 is that the stages don't last long enough. Windy Valley as Tails lasts for 30 seconds if you use his flight to break it. Which would be fine if Tails went through the entirety of Windy Valley like Sonic does because that would just be a small portion of his full level. I like to use mods to play as Tails in Sonic's stages in their entirety to see how much of the stages I can skip with Tail's flight. It's honestly just as fun as playing the stages as Sonic imo. But normally, Tails just has 5 stages and 3 minigames which are either too short (basically all of his stages last 1 minute at most excluding Speed Highway), identical to Sonic (Tail's Ice Cap, Sky Chase Part I/II)
i like the idea but i think his stages are too easy and doesn't really challenge you, you'd have to be really bad at games to mess up. that makes sense since tails has been an easy mode in the classic games but when translating it to 3D, it just feels lacking.
10:21 funnily enough i dont have any nostalgia for both adventure games just played them 2 to 3 years ago for the first time after hearing some good things about both not being aware about massive hate about both the games until I got to Pro Jared's infamous review
I love both Sonic Adventure games and I think both games have their merits. I think SA1 has higher highs but lower lows with the Sonic stages. I also think having a hub world actually hurts the experience, because it’s hard to figure out where to go a lot of the time, especially on a first playthrough. I like the radar system for SA1 much more than SA2, but SA1 has a lot of BS like Amy and Big’s campaign. I like to describe SA2 as SA1 without the BS, although many aspects of SA2 are weaker than SA1 imo, I prefer SA2 because of its story and awesome Chao world
Looking at it with a fresh pair of eyes (I played SA2 a few months ago as my first 3D Sonic game followed by SA1) I think they're largely on the same tier. I have only played the Sonic campaign in SA1, but my overall opinion was that while they're different there's no better game out of the two. Also, the jank I experienced is no worse than something like Half-life.
As someone else that has no nostalgia bias, I feel about the same way. I have a prefrence to SA2 but I feel like each game does certain aspects better.
I agree with you although don't actually agree with all of your points. Firstly, there is no one more passionate about Sonic than Sonic Team themselves. When sonic fails it's usually a Sega problem and not an Issue with the developers themselves. Secondly, my main problem with the games is how multiple characters are implemented. This was more tolerable for me personally in Adventure 1 (Still not ideal though) because I knew exactly what I was getting into when I chose a specific character to play as; You are not constantly switching from game play style to game play style like in Adventure 2 so I feel like I have more freedom to pick and choose what I want. The other characters also have really short and straightforward campaigns from what I remember. The way multiple characters are handled in Adventure 2 really sours the experience for me, and it wasn't until I played Project 06 that I realized I don't hate the idea of multiple characters in a sonic game and that it can be done in a way that satisfies the majority of people. Overall, even though I play adventure 1 much more than adventure 2 for various reasons, when I play both games It's always in the trial select. I rarely feel the need to replay the stories of these games (But I do get the urge to every once in a while haha)
Honestly I don't know why people prefer the second game. Literally everything was done better in the first game. The speed stages went from huge to linear obstacle courses. The treasure hunting went from quick and precise to long and frustrating. Mech stages went from quick and fun to long and dull. The adventure field was removed and you just randomly end up in new places without a clue to how you ended up there. The six characters with different stories is better than one story pointlessly split in two constantly changing you to not Sonic snd Shadow. The only fun stages in the game and I already explained that they themselves are lesser than Adventure 1.
From the tittle alone i was like yeah this guy spittin facts
Lol yes
"Tittle"
YEAS
*Title
Same here
"The public perception of the series got worse after '06, not the Adventure games."
THANK YOU!
Got worse at Heroes.
Sonic Adventure (1 & 2) sold over 8M each. (The 2.5M on Dreamcast wasn't the FULL amount, they sold tons on GameCube, PSN, Xbox Live, etc.)
Heroes is where the drop from it's lowest point CD and 3 & Knuckles with less than 7M dropped further to a meagre 3.4M and only eent down from there until Frontiers.
The declining quality, exaggerated tonal shift, and broken launch that occured in succession with Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, and Sonic 06 was probably what did it.
@@BlueEyedVibeChecker True. The Adventure games were a LOT better than Heroes.
my problem with adventure 2 is the fact that it requires you to enjoy ALL of the play styles. You don't get the choice of playing through whichever story you want at your own pace and it gets difficult trying to master each character's moveset since you're always switching between them. It also sucks that they removed the hub world as well. It makes the game seem bigger in scope yes but I'd prefer an Unleashed type of hub world where you can talk to the humans who are experiencing the game in real time just as you are.
The spindash in sa2 sucks
@@chasemitchell6155 Yeah compared to SA1 it's really tame and you really don't even have to use it to speed up most of the time
Bro just get a save that unlocks all the levels and play sonic and shadow stages only besides no sonic game has a good hub world they're just time wasters with a few boring mission and some power ups the latter could've easily been given at the end of certain level while trimming the fat
@@chasemitchell6155 the one in sa1 isn't much better either since you can skip major chunks of levels with ease
@@tounsi_m7ashesh That's a good thing tho for speedrunning and getting better times. The game actually encourages that you skip chunks of the level by placing one ups in spots that players wouldn't ever look. If you jump onto the building in speed highway at the beginning of the level you can spindash up the building and there'll be a one up waiting for you. That area is only accessible because of how busted the spindash is. From there you can spindash off of the building and skip a huge chunk of the level. SA1 rewards you for learning and utilizing its level design with the spindash and getting an understanding of its mechanics. It activately wants you to use its busted mechanics
FUN FACT: the reason why tails in a mech is because he wasn't originally planned for the game, but the put him in last minute because the fans wanted him in the game.
And the reason why knuckles radar is bullshit was to prolong game time
I absolutely agree with your points. I do seem to like Gamma's gameplay more than most, but SA2 does a lot differently that frustrates me in the same way that the changes to Knuckles' gameplay does for you. The mech stages no longer have the time limit, which can make the combo system seem even less relevant. The changes to turning and the lack of a 'roll mode' makes moving around incredibly awkward, which i guess is "realistic" but in all the worst ways. also I haven't played gamma's campaign as recently as SA2, but I swear to Christ, the homing sound was not as ear-grading
The sound mixing of both games is bad but SA2's is almost unbearable during the mech stages
While the digging is better in SA2. But some of the levels for Knuckles are better in SA1 since it requires you to go above rather than tight corridors.
i love SA2 with the caveat of having mods installed. Full radar and removing the spin dash delay are game changers.
True i HATE the spindash delay just because they implement a damn roll. Game is still fun
When your game requires mods for you to have a good time, that’s bad.
absolutely agree with almost every point, but i think the spindash delay nerf sorta makes sense since it was pretty much a spammy boost button in SA1. I didn't find this an issue because unfortunately SA2's level design doesn't actively incentivize you to even use the spindash because there are loads of dash panels that propel you forwards anyways and there aren't a lot of spindash jumps to skip sections. people like to complain that the boost games are so automated which is true, but they also forget that the Adventure games were guilty of it too and SA2 is especially cluttered with a bunch of automation within the Sonic/Shadow stages. They aren't bad stages, but I don't think it was the right direction to take after SA1. it just doesn't fit Sonic with the classic momentum based gameplay that everyone is begging for these days
This is a good point! It definitely can be spammed but that kind of adds to the replay value for me personally, Sonic moves at such a high speed when you spam the spindash that it isn't super practical and definitely not to the level of the boost formula where you pretty much want to always abuse it. I could be wrong, but I feel like the spindash jump particularly is something that was 100% incentivized through SA1's level design and agree that SA2 doesn't seem to care about the spindash at all, kind of just including it out of obligation.
I don't think you understand these games at all if you call SA2 automated because it isn't that different from SA1 and the classic games. Outside the scripted events (Which were also present in SA1 and in both games tend to be rare occasions) SA2 uses automation to a fair degree, dashpads are placed in a way to propel the player to reach a really high area that you normally wouldn't reach without enough speed, redirecting the player in unavoidable situations, etc, only in rare occasions where it's needed. The classic games and SA1 did the same thing, so I find it very weird that you call these stages automated despite their automation being just as much as in those games. In the boost games the levels are built on automation, it's a completely different thing from SA2, you're very restricted in your movement and ways to overcome the stages which is why people complain so much.
SA2 is a momentum based platformer, just like the classic games, and it arguably does it in a more accurate way to those games than SA1. The spindash is still relevant and can be used in a lot of different situations, SA2 has a lot of curved terrain and the player can use that spindash to turn into ball form and roll down and build up speed and then use that speed in different ways, City Escape is a great example of this. You can also use the terrain to skip some platforming as well, just like in SA1, the difference is that SA2's level design is less broken than in that game since in SA1 it was easier to do this and skip chunks of level design in unintended ways, in SA2 you can't just easily skip a portion of the level design, you can skip some platforming sections without breaking the game, which works much better. Not only that but SA2 also offers more movement options as well, the bounce bracelet can be used in a lot of different ways in combination with the terrain and the other Sonic movements, not only that but you also have more platforming gimmicks like rail grinding and jumping ramps that are physics based.
So I find it funny that you say it doesn't fit the classic momentum based gameplay, when it absolutely does. Levels like Final Rush, City Escape, and Sky Rail are some of the closest things to the gameplay of the classic levels in 3D and SA2 speed stages in general manage to do this pretty well, it's not a 1:1 recreation, but it's very spot on, and even more than SA1.
@@croc6105You could have said this in a more constructive way. Instead you insulted his knowledge on the game based on your opinions of the game.
@@PKSunset You're 3 months late, discussion already ended. But either way, my point still stands, most of this video is mindless criticism and comes in bad faith.
SA1 is a beautiful game, but it's also quite shallow in comparison with most of the first decade of Sonic games, SA1 lacks the complexity in level design of S3&k and the in-depth mechanics and moveset of SA2, a lot of the stuff in the game like the spindash is just very fuckbusted and rarely punishes you for mindlessly playing, it's a more casual friendly experience compared with the other games from the megadrive/dreamcast, the other gameplay styles range from decent fun to very shallow. I can understand why people love this game so much and prefer it over 2, but it doesn't hold the same candle as other games like S3&k, CD, or it's sequel, good game but massively overrated and most of it's praise comes from how mindless this game can be, a great example of this would be how easily you can break Tails stages or how you can finish Knuckles levels in less than a minute with not that much effort.
I agree with some of your points, but I prefer Sonic Adventure 2 due to the ranking system, replayabilty,
and streamlining of the formula.With Sonic Adventure, I don't really have a drive to go back to the game. And yes Gamma controls better than Tails/Eggman, but due to Sa2's superior scoring and rank system, I constantly replay those stages to get high scores. I think the main reason I like Sa2 over Sa1 is that Sonic Adventure is more open, encouraging exploration more than perfecting a perfect route and I think that is what separates the fans of both games. Sonic Adventure is more like the Classics. Sonic Adventure 2 is more like the Boost games. (also Sa1 is not objectively better lol)
I think the OBJECTIVE decision cannot be made with these games, because two games have both ups and downs that are close to being equal, and as you said, both have completely different gameplay loops.
@@ThatKidBobo fully agreed
I Find it funny how this video is a big as opinion thing and is I am assuming supposed to encourage people to state their honest opinion's on the topic but when you do well you don't get a heart while everyone that agrees does this dude sucks I was gonna hear the guy out but because of this he now comes off like a person that says they can take an opinion but actually cannot
@@shatteredrubyheart9082Insulting people because they disagree might also be a reason he won't heart you.
ngl adventure 2 is a game that needs better linear design
Fans keep debating which Adventure game is better for eternity, feels good to be a Heroes enjoyer
Sorry, but the reason why nobody debates about that game is because we kind of all agree that it’s the weaker game compared to these 2.
@@wishbushwashbosh6443 Fair enough, I know Heroes is worse than both Adventure games, but I like it for it's simplicity, and how it's easy to pick where it got things right and wrong, as opposed to the more complicated discussions with SA1 and SA2
Heroes is pretty much SA3
Yeah lol enjoy youre slippery long and shitty mess
You make some great points! I came into this video preferring SA1 to SA2 already, but you certainly reinforced my view.
also hilarious first chapter name lmfao
Honestly, I prefer SA2, but your points are valid. Gave me a new view on the debate of which game is better. Still on team SA2 tho 😅
For me, hub locations in SA1 are peak, it's above the time and have nice immersive feeling that you not just play through levels but it's a whole world, really like an adventure
Tails is my favorite Sonic character...
but they did him dirty!
What do you mean? In terms of gameplay or in terms of strory
Same and I agree, they did do him dirty.
@@ALegendaryBlueHedge Gameplay, the story is fire (at least in my opinion).
"SHUT UP ABOUT BIG THE CAT"
FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT
Agree. Sonic movement in SA is goated
This is soo true man.
Sonic Adventure 1 is just unbelievably better.
Honestly, you pointed out basically every reason why I prefer Sonic Adventure to Sonic Adventure 2.
Like, I get it, y’all don’t like big, it’s not like it was physically painful to play as him. Can we move on?
Being able to play as any character you want whenever you want was great. I don’t appreciate being stuck on an aggravating Tails mission trying to get to the next sonic mission.
Also, every time I die in Sonic Adventure, I feel like it’s my fault, in Sonic Adventure 2, it’s almost always because the game forgot to game for a second.
I agree with this. Adventure 2 having the mechs and the overwhelming treasure hunting that makes Sonic Adventure 2 not as fun as Adventure 1. Adventure 1 kept the pace better. Adventure 1's stories felt like they focused on the character in the situation, unlike 2. 2 felt like they were playable, just to be playable. I don't agree with how you view the Sonic series as a whole. But this video's topic is something I agree with.
Adventure 1 felt a direct sequel to S3&K. Adventure 2 felt like the Sonic characters were used in an anime inspired story.
This. Sonic Adventure 1, at least in the sonic and tails stages, feels like sonic 3 in 3D. SA2 feels like an anime game
im not sure how to feel about the title saying its *objectively* better but i did always prefer the structure of SA1
however i think SA2's speed stages are better and more replayable
wait they are? i guess stuff doesnt get repetitive that much for you
SA 2 was my favourite out of them but you really do put valid points that could argue SA 1 being the better game. Great vid!
I feel like if I saw this a year ago I might've agreed with it but having played both games back to back it's hard to go back to SA1. For one thing 2's levels feel more fleshed out since they aren't just carved out pieces of level from Sonic's campaign and while they do a lot of asset reuse, the actual design of the levels is different enough to set them apart and I generally find the optional missions for each act more fun than the ones in Adventure 1. Plus, I just really like the ranking system and the way score is handled in the levels.
I will agree requiring the player to engage with all the playstyles was pretty stupid though, I mostly enjoy them now but even as a kid I thought this was a pretty significant downgrade from the first game which generally let you play the game however you wanted. I'm a bit iffy on things like the emerald radar since don't find the change to be a negative as it brings some much needed longevity to levels that you could easily beat in 30 seconds in the first game (helps that the hint system was reworked too) but in certain levels like Death Chamber and Mad Space, the old radar would've been preferable.
The point about the treasure hunting stages in SA2 I can kind of understand, but I think that artificially extending the levels the way they did with the butchered radar and bigger stages was just a bad way to go about it. It kind of makes some stages overstay their welcome, especially Death Chamber and Mad Space. Sure a lot of SA1’s treasure hunting stages were a cakewalk, but I don’t feel like handicapping the player is a good solution to that problem. Maybe a compromise between the two, like bigger stages but with SA1’s hints or something like that, would’ve kept the stages at a reasonable length
@@kyleh1494 I can definitely see that side of things. For me though I don't mind it since it works well with the way hints work now and it gives them more importance since the radar isn't so strong. One common misconception (even for me up until a year ago) about the treasure hunting stages is that you can't use hints if your going for A ranks which is false. With level knowledge you can get by on one hint for each and still get an A rank while making a beeline towards them and not bothering with anything else. It's a good system in my eyes but I can understand why not everyone would be the biggest fan of it.
SA1 is about Momentum.
SA2 is about Flow.
SA1 has plenty of sloped surfaces and tubular level design that allows for the characters to build up a lot of speed in the 3D space -- however, it'll oftentimes segment levels between these hi-speed action sections and more freestyle open zones in which you have to find a slower way around a smaller area. These sections rarely cross over or interfere with each other. This is how each stage works fine in all 6 gameplay styles despite maintaining the same layouts.
SA2 continues the trend with sloped surfaces and areas where you can build up speed, but this is generally a reward for good flow. Much like the boost games that come after, it requires you to make quick, reflexive decisions based on level design. This is reinforced by the new combo score and ranking system introduced in Adventure 2, pushing you to find the best flow in order to get the best time. Believe it or not, this is also applicable to the treasure hunting and mech stages, in which the former is mostly based on time (which can be gamed by recognizing spawn patterns of the emerald shards -- they're almost always in a decent proximity to each other) and the latter being mostly based on shooting combos (Cosmic Wall is an incredibly satisfying stage partially because of the combos you can get.)
Neither one is bad or good compared to the other -- they're just focused on different things, and I wish your video title would reflect that better.
On that note, a lot of the sound issues come from the fact that the Dreamcast handled sound differently than any other system the game's since been ported to. Normally, extremely loud tracks would pick up an "overdrive"(? Not sure if that's the correct term here but I'll roll with it) sound to them and the volume would not go above a certain level. This was used to make the music sound crunchier during intense cutscenes without artificially laying on digital effects.
I agree and I think when discussing both of these games the objectivity is thrown out of the window because in that point of time it just boils down to matter of preference so saying one is "objectively better" is kind of stupid in my opinion not to mention in my eyes he also missed so much stuff about sa2 and why its so beloved
You're under a misconception here, both games are about momentum.
SA1 has a lot of curved terrain that the player can use in several ways like in the classic sonic games, you're right about that, and this works the exact same way in SA2. SA2 is not based on "flow", the stages are not based on quick reflexive decisions outside of the very rare occasions of swinging poles and slides that are pretty irrelevant through the whole stage, the ways to gain score are way more varied and often rely more on actions like chaining attacks, exploring and collecting items, even making creative use of the terrain and time, and the stages have many of this so the player can get an A rank in many different ways. But the ranking is not the focus, it's just another of the many ways the game offers to play these stages, you can easily ignore ranks and play the stages normally because the stages are build for that and the main focus is momentum based platforming, even more than SA1. Even in the rest of gameplay styles you can also go purely for time and ignoring most of the score if you want to since they're also built for several playstyles, the treasure hunting stages are a better example since even outside the main objective you have a lot of exploration to enhance your score, or abuse the hint system and get the best time possible without caring about your A rank.
In SA2 you have several ways to build up speed like the terrain itself, the rails, the jumping ramps, etc, and use that to do several things such as reaching different points or enhancing your momentum, there are a lot of times where you need to do this to overcome an obstacle, like in the classic games, but this time thanks to the expanded moveset and new platforming mechanics you have way more options than in SA1, and in order to get the best time you need to rely on this and not on getting more score like with the A rank, and even if it's not the only requirement for the ranking system you can completely ignore it and do it anyway since the game still records your best time. In the boost games you're pretty much just restricted to one way to play the levels and it relies on fast reaction obstacles instead of physics like the adventure games, so I really don't get your comparison.
SA2 is not focused on different things, it's pretty much a refined version of the best gameplay styles from SA1, because the speed gameplay isn't really that different from the one in SA2 other than being more streamlined, and the ranking system just gives the player a reward for interacting more with the score elements the stages have.
@@croc6105 Respectfully, I disagree. SA2's stages are about flow, and if you can't see that then I have to question if you actually understand the game. To be clear, I am not calling into question whether or not SA2 still features momentum or involves momentum in its speed stages -- it does. But that isn't the core of the gameplay like it is in SA1.
See, in SA1 you have spectacles of momentum like part 2 of Emerald Coast with loops and sloped ramps, part 2 of Windy Valley with a vertical segment where you travel down a long ramp, almost all of Speed Highway and its long stretches of road and sides of buildings... In all of these, much of it's long, speedy romps with almost nothing to get in the way of you and your momentum. SA2, on the other hand, reels these in and makes them more focused segments of a stage before throwing you into something else. In City Escape, it opens with a streetboarding section where you have to focus on keeping up your momentum before it tosses you abruptly into the first area where you're greeted with multiple ways to continue. You can go up stairs, or grind up a rail. Once you reach the top, you're greeted with a robot you can either go right into a homing attack for or somersault through to keep moving forward. To the left is a slope to run on. To the right, a trail of rings you can lightspeed dash on, etc. etc., most of the stages give you an abundance of options on how you approach and it leaves it up to you to keep moving, find your best flow, and keep going.
I'll say it again. SA2 is about Flow.
@@Samevi Ok, but how does your argument counters anything I said?
Momentum is the core gameplay of SA2, arguably more important than in SA1, a lot of it's mechanics and level design is built around momentum physics, there are a huge amount of times where the player needs to make use of physics to progress through the level and even some moments where the game even rewards you for building a good amount of momentum with score, goodies, another path, etc.
Your example of City Escape still doesn't prove anything about SA2 being about flow, those are several options the game offers you that benefits the player depending on the playstyle, and even then some of them require momentum, like the rails or the wall running, and heck this is still relevant through the whole stage, the game is constantly showing the player how far they can get if they make clever use of the terrain/rails/jumping ramps as well as maneuvering properly, which is why I don't agree with momentum not being the core gameplay of sa2 when it absolutely is, and it becomes even more relevant if you're going for time attack (which is also an intended way to play the game)
Even thought I disagree in some opinions of yours, the video is awesome, you deserve more subs man :)
Nope
@@Persac7 What, just because you prefer sa2 over sa1 the video is bad?
@@maomax8922 i said nope to u disagreeing
@@Persac7 Oh, I can't disagree now?
@@Persac7 It's called an opinion. Learn it sometime.
I personally enjoy the soundtrack more in SA1 and the story is also better and I really like how it ties into all the lore introduced up to that point. The treasure hunter levels are designed for the playstyle which makes it more fun but also more frustrating sometimes. Tails' gameplay style probably has to be the way it is because of the story, which I completely agree with you on the lenght of the levels. Sonic controls absolutely worse in this game however it is bearable and doesn't really create a problem imo, spindash jump is still very doable it's just slower now which doesn't really matter to me but it still minorly slows the pace down.
I believe the fact that Sonic Team was learning how to make stuff on the Gamecube and the psychological pressure of becoming a 3rd party developer probably has impacted this game alot more than we think. Without these problems, maybe we could have gotten something better.
I don't think Gamma's gameplay is bland at all. It's only in SA2 that the mech gameplay gets bland and boring as it's stretched out to be 1/3 of the gameplay across the entire game. In SA1, the gameplay is only present in 1/7 stories (plus the Sky Chase sections if you count them, as they work similarly to the mech shooting). Gamma's levels are either too short to be notable (Final Egg), short enough to not get boring (Emerald Coast, Windy Valley) or interesting enough to be decent levels (Red Mountain, Hot Shelter). Not to mention his final boss is in the top 3 boss fights in the game
Now, I get why SA2 opted to have Tails in his mech. Because it'd be really hard to make levels exclusively for Tails gameplay. In SA1, Tails goes through sections designed for Sonic. Either Tails would have to go through sections Sonic/Shadow already went through or have sections designed for his flight (like the end of Tail's Speed Highway) but it'd be impossible to stretch this gameplay out for 1/3 of the game and Sonic/Shadow stages are not designed to accommodate for Tail's flying gameplay like Sonic stages in SA1 are
Knuckles/Rouge gameplay in SA2 would be undisputedly better than Knuckles SA1 gameplay if it weren't for the nerfed radar. In SA1, Knuckles stages are far too easy. Very small levels, a lot of springs and stuff to make it easy for him to get around and hint orbs which point you exactly where the emeralds are. SA2 makes it harder by making the stages larger, having a better hints system and a nerfed radar. These changes on their own make sense but altogether can make these stages last way too long for any newcomer
Regarding the Sonic gameplay of SA2, the spin dash in SA1 would not work in SA2. For one thing with how the levels are designed, the game expects you to use level design to move forward in the level like the light dash, rail grinding, ramps, horizontal poles to swing off etc. The spin dash from SA1 would make this level design pretty pointless. The spin dash still comes in handy as you can still spin dash jump to reach certain sections, spin dash downhill to go really fast, spin dash onto rails to start off on the rails with a lot of speed. SA2 also introduces the bounce bracelet which brings its own layer to Sonic's gameplay. I think the speed gameplay on SA1 and SA2 both have their merits and honestly idk which one I prefer
Your last paragraph is true and something I should've touched on further, Sonic has a good moveset in Sonic Adventure 2 and the levels are designed around it, but I just personally feel that the more open and shortcut heavy design of SA1 is more fun and mechanically engaging. Thanks for watching!
Both are equal imo.
As a kid I was annoyed that the hub worlds were gone in SA2. But SA2’s gameplay, story, chao Garden, soap shoes, 2player battle mode, & Shadow…. Truly made the game special.
The music is also 10x better, which I couldn’t believe.
I really wish Adventure 2 had a hub world. I used to be against hub worlds but in a sonic game with good physics I've really changed my mind.
I liked the gamma stages myself compared to the mechs in SA2 for a couple reasons. Instead of getting combo shots just increasing your score, they give you extra time, which feels a lot more tangible to me. The stages also flow a lot better, and don’t force you to stop in a lot of places.
Finally somebody said it
Man, As Someone who Loves Tails, It's *VERY* Disappointing that Tails is Stuck in his Handicap Robot, Plane, or Car, And Only Being Able to Acess Him without it in Chao World, and Even then It's just a Copy -Paste of SA1s Tails, and They Made His Tails as Stiff as a Log.
Do you know there’s a reason why they made the turning a little more *stiff* in comparison to the mech shooting in adventure 1 right? The reason is that it’s so that the aiming the lock on reticle would be easier.
Banger title, I'll watched the video later
Even as a kid I was having way less fun in SA2 than SA1
Was it just because it was more challenging?
I can definitely understand this opinion, ngl the title with "objectively" had me kinda worried this was going to be a video spoken like it was factual. I will add: do not say SA2 fans mostly like it because of nostalgia, not only is that generalising a big group of sonic fans, it's a flat out incorrect statement as I, did not grow up with SA2, yet I prefer it over SA1.
SO nice to hear this pretty unpopular take validated,.,.., i have a lot of love and respect for SA2 but I remember SA1 so much more fondly,.,. I really think that it comes down to if you prefer the other gameplay styles in SA1 or SA2 which dictates which one is your favorite. If you hate everyone elses campaigns in SA1, you're not gonna like it. If you hate everyone elses campaigns in SA2, you're not gonna like it. AND I WILL ALWAYS MOURN THE INSTA SPINDASSHHHH WAAAHH
I agree 100% what you're saying about Tails and Knuckles. The way they let you play as Tails in the Chao Garden used to drive me insane XD. Good video though
I just play SA1 and SA2 back to back (along with Frontiers) and while I loves them both, I did preferred SA1.
I feel like a big part of why SA1's reputation has fallen so far compared to SA2 is because of the DX ports, which introduced a lot of new glitches and downgraded or broke certain visual effects like the lighting, whereas SA2 Battle was largely unscathed in the transition between consoles. SADX and SA2B are the most accessible ways to play these games now, so a lot of first-time players only have this glitchy version of Adventure 1 to compare to a solid version of Adventure 2.
Personally I like both games, but I do prefer SA1 in a lot of ways, mainly in how Sonic controls and how the different gameplay styles are separated into their own campaigns. To put it another way: the mods I consider essential for SA1 are mainly to do with fixing the DX version's problems, while the mods I consider essential for SA2 are all to fix things I disliked in the base game like the nerfed radar and the mech controls.
This almost fully entails my feelings for SA2. Well done!
9:06 well there are still a lot of skips you can do in sa 2 as well from completely skipping the puzzle room in crazy gadget through some memorisation,to manually landing on upper platform in city escape using spindash rather than pole,skipping some of gravity tubes in final chase,building enough momentum and then jumping of at right time to access the upper rails in final rush etc. I think that while sa 2 is linear it in no shape or form distracts from its genesis or prequel's philosophy of momentum and using it in interesting ways thus also getting rewarded in the process
i personally replayed sonic adventure because i had never beat it bc of big the cat… i got a hang of it and actually enjoyed every single character as i played through it.
I think there's just not enough Sonic in either game , I do love that in SA1 you can run around in adventure fields , it felt bigger, and the atmospheric music (music without corny singing) is missing in the second game , also the NPCs, and those things made SA1 feel like an adventure
I've never been able to finish SA2 because the Knuckles stages were already my least favorite campaign in SA1 (yeah, I really don't mind the fishing), and not only did they take away the non-linearity of the first game, but they made Knuckles stages far worse. The mech stages are also worse than Gamma's stages. I'm really not sure why people seem to go easier on SA2.
Best story in the franchise, awesome soundtrack, introducing shadow, best version of eggman as a competent character, just off the top of my head
Absolutely! Sonic Adventure 1 has a hub world environment where you can choose what to do. The fun is kind of sucked out of SA2 because it's more streamlined. The great thing about the Adventure games anyway is that they allowed you to control Sonic in various directions while all the games after were a case of holding down a button to make Sonic just keep running forward without any exploration.
I’ve had a binge of playing older Sonic games recently. As a child, I actually loved the Tails and Eggman levels the most in Adventure 2. I think I just liked shooting everything. As a 29 year old adult though playing them, they were more of a chore to go through. Out of the late 90s to 05 era, here is how I’d rate the games even though no one asked.
Sonic Adventure 1 - Perfectly took the 2D Sonic formula into the 3D arena. Still hate Big’s levels. I got stuck on them as a kid and still felt frustrated as an adult on the mechanics.
Sonic Adventure 2 - Perfectly builds on Adventure 1. It has issues but I’d rate it the same as the first.
Sonic Heroes - Awful. I actually did not play it as a kid. But as an adult, thought it was awful. I hate the gameplay and how every level was seemingly just bottomless pits. Only redeeming quality is I thought the last boss fight was cool.
Shadow the Hedgehog - I liked it as a kid. Played it again, and I actually still liked it. Yes, the story was poorly written. But I found the levels and gameplay solid. I even found the gun gameplay fun. My issue was beating it 10 times to get the true ending was a chore.
Agreed. I've replayed SA1 countless times, it's a very nostalgic game to me. As compared to SA2, which I've never beat once 😂
EDIT: I just beat SA2 for the first time. And yeah, I disagree with this video now. The levels being tailored specifically for each character makes them very fun and repayable, especially with the ranking system. I still like SA1 better but SA2 is a bit closer to it than I once thought.
subjectively* but yeah i like sa1 more than 2 as well but there are some things I would've gone over about the ranking system changing a little if i ever did a vid on it
6:57 well in my eyes the whole radar is nerfed thing is nothing but psychological because even if you had the og radar system the focus of the stages in sa2 is very different. In sa 1 it was all about hovering around aimlessly till your radar goes off whereas in sa 2 its about making good use of level design,movement, the hint system of the game and paying closer attention to surroundings because unlike sa 1 emeralds now spawn in very specific location opposed to anywhere on map,even some of the stages that are accused of being too big could be completed in 3-4 minutes provided you have good enough skills for example meteor herd it takes 15 seconds as max to reach from bottom to top provided you are making good use of level design not to mention hints themselves also help a lot like there is a hint about a gun robot in meteor herd and its the only robot in the entire level,there is a hint about dangerous water aka artificial chaos which are only 5 in number in the entire level etc. and about hints deducting your rank is a pure myth the only thing that they really affect is score you get for each emerald which in first place isn't that affected and secondly can be more than made up with your time bonus
In short i think sa 1 treasure hunt is something that while is fun overall suffers from lack of challenge,replaybility and especially bland level design which doesn't fully require any sort of mastery whereas adventure 2's levels reward you for your mastery of the level and mechanics
But hey we can still agree to disagree right? :)
In my personal opinion, I actually prefer SA2.
To address the styles in the room. Some of these criticisms are valid. I agree that the radar is dumb in Knuckles' stages and placing 5 emerald shards with the SA1 Radar would have been a better method if they wanted to extend the stages. And yes, Tails doesn't feel as smooth as Gamma did. But these have reason behind them. Tails was a last minute decision and even then, the mech stages improves his character through his tech and are rewarding to master. Knuckles stages with more replays gets more rewarding and actually becomes the easiest set of stages to A Rank. As for the Blue Hedgehog in the room, Yes, Sonic does feel different but it WORKS. SA1's spindash wouldn't be as useful in SA2 since the game is more linear. The same could be said for plopping SA2 Sonic in SA1 due to the delayed Spindash. Not being able to Spindash Spam doesn't immediately make SA2 Sonic worse. With that said. The biggest downside of SA2 Sonic is the same button syndrome and the levels for the most part doesn't have this issue come up on a casual playthrough. As for SA1, I actually like the majority of it. Take a good guess what part I am not too fond of playing again. Most of the gameplay styles are fun. It's just that I feel like SA2 for the most part improved the existing ones and threw out what wasn't necessary. But that is just my two cents on the matter. I still respect your opinion.
I actually agree with this a lot. Especially about the part with the spin dash. I also like sonic adventure 2 more because it has a higher skill ceiling and the gameplay styles feel generally more fleshed out and properly realized and balanced. it also has the ranking system, which is a massive advantage because it has so much replayability while incentivizing players to explore how skill you can get. Better Chao garden, better pacing, better story, better way to tell that story. I could probably go on and flesh these opinions out more but I think you get the idea.
Finally someone who knows SA1 is better than SA2!
Honestly the overworlds and unskippable cutscenes in Adventure 1 are enough for me to prefer Adventure 2. Brings the game to a grinding hault. EDIT: Also, I love the spindash in Adventure 1 (and Adventure 2 to a slight lesser extent) for being able to do it anywhere, anytime. People loathe it in Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06 because you have to stop to use it, and I agree, but they're techniaclly just being more accurate to the 2D games lol. Spindash peaked with the Adventure games.
Amazing video. Though i disagree on some. You can still do spindash jumps in adventure 2.
Thanks for the kind words! I never claimed you can’t spin dash jump, just that it was nerfed
@@TroyVault it’s nerfed in terms of how you can’t spam them as proficiently. It’s actually more like the classic spin dash. I won’t act like the SA2 spin dash is instant but saying it ruins the pace is just wrong. It really doesn’t take long to hold and released a spin dash in sonic adventure 2 and when you do, it feels more powerful than sonic adventure 1 because it feels like a proper slingshot. I don’t really think it would add that much to the gameplay experience of Adventure 2 anyway considering how streamlined the level design is. I played it with mods, and I was pretty much right.
As someone who has much more nostalgia to 1 than 2, I still like 2 more. I love all the gameplay styles, sonic being, well, sonic. Tails is a bit Gamma-like but I really enjoy those stages, and Knuckles is a really fun little treasure hunt. I get what you’re saying about SA1 and I love that game to death, but 2 is so much more polished and I can’t really fault it (but honestly I’m really not a picky person).
I have Never seen a video with a title that speaks the Truth
Great video but if I can say one thing I completely disagree with 9:15. You can still spin dash jump as you please in SA2 if anything the sa2 spin dash is way more like the genesis one seeing you have to stop to use it anyways and the sa 1 spin dash is just too easy to use like the boost gameplay
I totally agree. I only played Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 for the first time a few months ago, and therefore don't have nostalgia for these games. Yeah I definitely prefer SA1...
people have forgotten what objective means
Fax
THANK YOU for mentioning Sonic's controls, like the physics and spindash delay. i feel like nobody ever talks about that, sonic just jitters everywhere in adventure 2 and it feels like he always slows down vs adventure 1 where he controls like butter on a hot pan
I can enjoy big the cat but I prefer the SA2 Battle chao garden which for me is the biggest reason to replay missions. I also loved the huge treasure maps as they were fun to just explore.
I still like Adventure 1 more, but lately I have been softening up more on SA2 and its quirks. The changes to design are intentional and you need to take the time to soak in practicing a new mechanic or function, which definitely feels jarring at first, but once you learn it the flow goes way up. I don't mind the harder treasure missions with the radar because they do implement rules to the locations and the hint system, which while not explained well in game, make a lot more sense when you see someone talk about it. An emphasis on points makes you think not just about completion time, but efficiently dispatching enemies with combos, doing tricks and like oldschool sonic, trying to avoid getting hit to get that good ring count.
My main complaints of SA2 is the less polished feeling gameplay and how overlong stages can get (ESPECIALLY Final Chase). I do agree trying to have equal amounts of levels for each type of gameplay was far too much and comes off as padding. The Hd version of the game is also kinda busted and makes the game feel worse, i just recently modded it enough to get it as close as it can get to the original intended gameplay aside from the rails (analog sensitivity is broken in the hd versions no matter what, for some reason). Sonic Adventure 1 just feels like a more solid, focused package, while SA2 is more about having more to do and challenging the player more.
Well the main problem with SA2 aside from what you said is it doesn't teach you its mechanics properly. There is no reason for a knuckles stage to take 10 minutes if you fully grasp how it works, but the game also doesn't make any effort to explain how it works properly. The only way to enjoy SA2 is by striving for A ranks and doing all of the missions because that's how you actually learn the proper way to play the game. I preferred SA1 until I went for the complete SA2 experience and also watched videos explaining how each playstyle actually works. Most of SA2's value is in replayability and side content like A rank, Chao Garden and Missions not so much the campaign.
And SA2 Treasure hunting is certainly a pace breaker but not really a nerf imo, the maps are massive but also very fleshed out. The Omochaos give you alot of information about different parts of the map and once you've fully explored and gained knowledge about them its as easy as gliding to the next emerald when you activate a hint box. Also a common misconception is that you lose points when doing that but only if you get more than 3 hints.
But yeah I don't think you can fully enjoy SA2 if you just play the campaign, and definitely not on your first run. But while SA1 is a hit and run right out of the park, once you beat the campaign, I personally found no enjoyment in the metagame of ranks and missions and chao in SA1
Honestly, I agree with this pretty strongly. I actually really think there’s a lot of great stuff in SA2. It’s just that a lot of people can’t see that value when they’re missing contexts on some of the nuances of the gameplay styles. It’s sort of like seeing a newcomer play Mario 64 and complain about how crappy and clunky it feels. I highly recommend sonic adventure 2, but only to people who are somewhat interested in it, and to have a good amount of contexts for how to get the fullest experience out of it.
Finally, i feel home
The omega stages in SA1 are almost mindless. In SA2 the score system is a massive improvement and for the first time ever in the series it incentives players to do better with a ranking. Not only that, but the missions after completing a stage are far more intuitive not only for the mech stages, but for all of them except the kart stages. I'd say those were a nightmare to complete. Sonic handles better in adventure 2 and has a much improved moveset. Again, for the first time in the series, the game gives you an incentive to perfect your abilities. The radar is better in SA1, but the ranking system and gridning will forever be associated with the series and we can thank SA2 for both. The list can go on but honestly those two mechanics alone make SA2 a big improvement and if you want to talk story then SA1 is really blown out of the water. No one except for die hards know or care about chaos. Most people who know Sonic know Shadow
I thought i was the only one that actually liked Adventure 1 more and honestly there is a lot more varierty in the way all characters play in adventure 1 and it has an adventure field which makes it feel more realistic
8:52 well i dont think they ruined it but rather that it just works differently here again with completely different focus sure i love spamdash in sa 1 but I don't see much use of it here in sa2 because Sonic is natively so fast for something that was ruined i would pick 06's spindash because not only did it required you to stop but also barely gave you any momentum in exchange
To be honest, I love SA1 way more than 2 thanks to the freedom it gives you. Compare the Sonic stages from SA1 and SA2. You get a ton of more space in SA1 to run around. In SA2 you're always moving forward. Not in a Sonic Forces way, but in a way that limits the freedom you have when it comes to free movement.
What if I told you SA1 and 2 control the exact same minus spindash
they arent the same sonic feels like a car even tho treasure hunting stages
@@waff69 you must've played some fucked up version of SA2 from India if you think he controls like a car despite him being super precise like in SA1, I even got the physics tables for the game to prove you wrong lol
@@VirtuousAezon he controls like a car sometimes and he is not super precise in sa2 because sonic when he turns in a circle in sa2 its bigger while in sa1 you can turn in a small circle also when you spin the analog stick in sa2 it is just walking regularly and sa1 has sonic doing a strange as hell dance also the homing attack has tricks in sa2 and the homing attack in sa2 requires more input than sa1 homing attack i remember sometimes when i should homing attack i just die
@wafftheweirdsonicguy this is just untrue and sounds like an opinion some youtuber said with no credibility lol, you're definitely playing SA2 from India bro
@@VirtuousAezon your probably using a mod that changes the physics or you cant tell the difference good you probably cant tell the difference between sonic unleasheds physics to sa2 physics also your probably playing an indian version instead because i also played it on my xbox so you probably just run in a straight line without caring at all
My first time playing the adventure games was around a month ago. I can say without a doubt that I enjoyed Adventure 1 more than 2. The spin dash in 1 alone is enough reason why I liked it more.
In adventure 2 it would have been better if tails could fly,I mean you could fly in chao garden
What pisses me off most in sa2 is that the battle mode gave us 2 chaos inside mechs instead of 1 chao in a mech and gamma
SA1's adventure fields have a ton of npcs who's locations and dialogue evolves throughout the game. It's 06 that has the empty, bland hubs.
I just can't agree. I think the level design for 2 although still jank, is far more focused and tailored to each character which helps make them enjoyable to traverse, the power ups make more sense (light speed dash being instant, bounce bracelet), and give more replayability (mystic melody, sunglasses etc) and you cannot say that Big the Cat is not a part of the game. You have to do it to beat it, it's like only playing the Hero story of SA2 or the Chao Garden.
And in terms of story, SA2's is just far better. Presentation, writing, characterization, voice acting, literally everything about it.
It feels like the arguments are unfocused. You praise and defend Gamma for being button mashy, but then rip on Tails gameplay which means.... Gamma's gameplay is bad? So then both Big and Gamma suck, but at least the levels are "shorter" ? Then the radar got unnecessarily nerfed in SA2, but.... Mods help keep SA1 looking and feeling great so shouldn't I just download a mod to fix that?
You can't minimize it to just nostalgia. I love both Adventure games and there are legitimate reasons people favor one or the other and legitimate problems with each. I like the speed of SA2 Sonic and Shadow, and rail grinding though jank was an immensely cool addition to the gameplay, but Sonic did control a lot better in SA1 and the spindash was much better and snappy. I like the idea of hub worlds and I'm glad they brought them back with more focus in Unleashed, something SA2 really lacked. I say all this to say it isn't just blind fanboyism on my end as there's a lot to love about SA1. But half of the game's characters were either mindless or unfun to play, some mechanics like Tails' slap were useless as opposed to those in SA2, and you still had to play all six stories to get your money's worth from the game just like you had to play both stories in SA2.
🤝🏾
For me level design in sa 1 was fantastic and better than sa2 and I really found myself having fun at least for Sonic stages the rest of the playstyles(except big) while fun for the first time wasn't that engaging for me in the long run so every time I boot up this game its about completing those side challenges in sonic stages(almost 30 hrs worth of time) as for sa2 I adore that game and since the first time i played it I have spent 100 hrs worth of time in it from A ranking every single main mission(except for mad space)to completing the game itself 5 times that game in my eyes was far more challenging,rewarding and polished than sa1 its kind of a game that just gets better and better the more time you sunk in it mastering all of its mechanics
I dont agree but i see where you're coming from.
SA1 has a more magical Sonic element to the levels... and SA2 is more radical and intense. Which is kinda what Sonics design was going for in a sense. But i do think Sonic controls somewhat better in SA1 atleast.
All I needed To see was that title to know this was gonna be a awesome video, sa1 is peak.
8:30 i thinks that's because unlike sa 1 the game is more focused on linear action opposed to open ended level design that adventure 1 had which is why I feel sa 2 sonic works better for its stages not to mention he is also faster than sa 1 Sonic
i have never played sa2 because i just didn't have it but i did play sa1 and i sort of got stuck in the hub world because i was in another story thinking it would play the same as sonic story
Average Omochao fan vs. Average Mr. Know-it-all enjoyer
Tikal*
Sa2 on my pc (steam) its speed is dubbed cos I have a really good hrts and fps but I cant edit it to 60 or 30 or at all in the game settings
Knuckles missions short!? Bruh it took me 10mins! To finish a level
The knuckle stages are actually shorter than the sonic stages in both games. How the hell did them take you 10 minutes?
you can beat some knuckles stages in under 20 seconds, but of course that's only when you get the hang of the level. first time playing and taking 10 minutes to finish makes sense, but it only gets faster and faster each time you replay the level
6:32 i respectfully disagree I have personally A ranked all of their stages and turns out it was only eternal engine and cosmic wall that exceeded the 4 minute mark the rest of the levels were actually just as long as sonic stages in the game for me
I grew up with the 16 bit era, the Dreamcast era, and ended on Heroes. I was obsessed as a kid, but I just hate almost everything Sonic did post Sega Genesis. Total unpolished jank during the Adventure era, then from Heroes to the 360 games, it goes from jank mismanaged garbage and transitions into the "Do you like running in a straight line while a stupid story plays out and your eyes glaze over? That's Sonic for the next 15 to 20 years, enjoy, that'll be another $60 every time" era. Only worthwhile games are Sonic 2, 3, & Knuckles, Triple Trouble, and Mania. The GBA games look solid gameplay-wise, and not aesthetically, but I never played them.
My only positives for SA 2 is that it's more SA, plus you get eggman as a playable character and when he's petting the chao in the chao garden he says Y o s h, and getting max rank on every stage and its challenges are very challenging; really putting my skills to the test.
What i don't like about it.... is because eggman's in a mech and both hero/dark characters mirror their respective playstyles, i can't enjoy tails without his mech except in the chao garden, and the knuckles/Rouge stages were artificially made more tedious, with only detecting one shard at a time and every specific ones, unlike SA 1 where if you were within distance you could just.... get that shard piece and then move on to the remaining ones.
I'm not gonna list every detail, but SA 1 gave you more variety, even if the story fumbles at times, and then everyone is forced to play a very unfun game of big the cats fishing adventure starring Froggy, oh and sonic spazzs out occasionally tho i find it funny lol.
This whole video alone is 100% valid points that SA1 is WAY better then SA2 as a whole.
Sonic Adventure 2 is a generational hallmark for a certain age group and it's criticism-proof, that's just the way it is. SA1 was and still is very rough, but other than the Sonic/Shadow levels, I prefer SA1 over SA2
They nerfed the quick dash!!11!11!1
Honestly, Heroes felt way more fun than SA2. it's also just a better game. Yeah I said it!
"objectively"
sonic fans go touch grass challenge (impossible)
zoomer bitch go out and get a job challenge (impossible)
@@vxcvxmcrposfdsdfulpdfg salty bc i actually use common sense?
I’m allergic to grass, so this is accurate.
You have no idea how glad I am over why you think Sonic Adventure 1 is better than Sonic Adventure 2 as do I
Idk why some reviews hate on tails in sa1. Saying he breaks the stages is kinda the point. I
I think the problem with Tails stages in SA1 is that the stages don't last long enough. Windy Valley as Tails lasts for 30 seconds if you use his flight to break it. Which would be fine if Tails went through the entirety of Windy Valley like Sonic does because that would just be a small portion of his full level. I like to use mods to play as Tails in Sonic's stages in their entirety to see how much of the stages I can skip with Tail's flight. It's honestly just as fun as playing the stages as Sonic imo. But normally, Tails just has 5 stages and 3 minigames which are either too short (basically all of his stages last 1 minute at most excluding Speed Highway), identical to Sonic (Tail's Ice Cap, Sky Chase Part I/II)
i like the idea but i think his stages are too easy and doesn't really challenge you, you'd have to be really bad at games to mess up. that makes sense since tails has been an easy mode in the classic games but when translating it to 3D, it just feels lacking.
Objectively based on title alone
10:21 funnily enough i dont have any nostalgia for both adventure games just played them 2 to 3 years ago for the first time after hearing some good things about both not being aware about massive hate about both the games until I got to Pro Jared's infamous review
I love both Sonic Adventure games and I think both games have their merits. I think SA1 has higher highs but lower lows with the Sonic stages. I also think having a hub world actually hurts the experience, because it’s hard to figure out where to go a lot of the time, especially on a first playthrough. I like the radar system for SA1 much more than SA2, but SA1 has a lot of BS like Amy and Big’s campaign. I like to describe SA2 as SA1 without the BS, although many aspects of SA2 are weaker than SA1 imo, I prefer SA2 because of its story and awesome Chao world
Ok so I honestly like adventure 2 more then sa1 cuz adventure 2 introduced the 2 amazing characters shadow and rouge
I been saying this for years
Looking at it with a fresh pair of eyes (I played SA2 a few months ago as my first 3D Sonic game followed by SA1) I think they're largely on the same tier. I have only played the Sonic campaign in SA1, but my overall opinion was that while they're different there's no better game out of the two. Also, the jank I experienced is no worse than something like Half-life.
I did like the games a lot, by the way :)
As someone else that has no nostalgia bias, I feel about the same way. I have a prefrence to SA2 but I feel like each game does certain aspects better.
In my opinion, Sonic Adventure 1 is my most favourite sonic game, but Adventure 2 is also amazing!
Doesn't matter, uncle Ben; Shadow the hedgehog is better than both of 'em
I agree with you although don't actually agree with all of your points. Firstly, there is no one more passionate about Sonic than Sonic Team themselves. When sonic fails it's usually a Sega problem and not an Issue with the developers themselves. Secondly, my main problem with the games is how multiple characters are implemented. This was more tolerable for me personally in Adventure 1 (Still not ideal though) because I knew exactly what I was getting into when I chose a specific character to play as; You are not constantly switching from game play style to game play style like in Adventure 2 so I feel like I have more freedom to pick and choose what I want. The other characters also have really short and straightforward campaigns from what I remember. The way multiple characters are handled in Adventure 2 really sours the experience for me, and it wasn't until I played Project 06 that I realized I don't hate the idea of multiple characters in a sonic game and that it can be done in a way that satisfies the majority of people. Overall, even though I play adventure 1 much more than adventure 2 for various reasons, when I play both games It's always in the trial select. I rarely feel the need to replay the stories of these games (But I do get the urge to every once in a while haha)
Honestly I don't know why people prefer the second game. Literally everything was done better in the first game. The speed stages went from huge to linear obstacle courses. The treasure hunting went from quick and precise to long and frustrating. Mech stages went from quick and fun to long and dull. The adventure field was removed and you just randomly end up in new places without a clue to how you ended up there. The six characters with different stories is better than one story pointlessly split in two constantly changing you to not Sonic snd Shadow. The only fun stages in the game and I already explained that they themselves are lesser than Adventure 1.
The best part of SA2 (IMO) is the Knuckles (HIM specifically) BUT with better radar (LIKE SA1)