Shocking Revelation for the SMT Powerscaling Community Regarding the Demi-fiend vs. Nahobino Debate

You can't win, Nahobino. If you strike me down, I shall become exactly as powerful as I was prior to being struck down.
There is a bit of a level discrepancy between the end of the first battle and the start of the second battle, which is from the completion of the "Return of the True Demon" quest. I cut out the EXP screen for that, but it boosts the Nahobino's level from 93 to 95, as shown in the second battle.

[@phillemon7664]

Canonically the Nahobino doesn’t fight the Demi-Fiend as he has already absorbed his knowledge and Sophia acknowledges this in The World of Shadows after you complete his fight with her acknowledging that the Nahobino has surpassed the Demi-Fiend. It doesn’t reflect in the gameplay of his fight because it’s just a game mechanics thing, he isn’t magically going to become a lower level after you beat him the first time.

[@billyboleson2830]

also the idea that 5 is a sequel is fan headcanon too lmao. In fact the entire “smt timeline” is like 90% bullshit

[@NeoCoyote]

@@billyboleson2830 didnt they explicitly mention the tokyo conception in V? i mean i see why people think this.

[@sociallyawkard5675]

Do people like....not realize pixie probably just heals the demifiend after the fight ends

[@Richterbelmont96]

@@NeoCoyote Yes. During the bethel summit Hayao Koshimizu does indeed mention that tokyo endured the conception 18 years ago or so.

[@ils4844]

@@billyboleson2830 Demi-Fiend being present still essentially puts V after Nocturne though, it's an easy analyzable thing that's proof that there's at least _some_ connections are going on. (SMTIV/IVA prior also had more of this kinda stuff, Steven from SMT1-2 is the same guy in IV/IVA, we've also had time travel plots and concepts that mess around with stuff going back as far as Majin Tensei too) V hinging off of Nocturne's TDE is basically the only thing that's giving its base plot any weight at all, otherwise it's just a slightly more nothingburger nothing burger of a story (of course, we'll see if VV will be changing this at all with its new story).
Aya Nishitani, the original writer for the Megami Tensei light novels says that the series took place in a multiverse from the start too, so it's essentially nearly always been a thing to some degree and the only limiting factor on it is whether or not Atlus feels like messing around with it or not, which they unfortunately seem to flip flop between a ton hence causing a lot of confusion over the topic.

[@Sanji2789]

Man cant wait to see your boss runs on SMT V: vengeance. Especially the extra stuff that they added could make team comps very interesting and i do hope the QOL stuff doesn’t diminish the challenge that the game provides.

[@ils4844]

the secret TRUE reality to all of this is that the STRONGEST megaten protagonist is the Soul Hackers protag...

[@kagexice7679]

bro has never seen the deus demi fiend run

[@YurificationTrademark]

Bro misses the fucking point of the video

[@kagexice7679]

@@YurificationTrademarkouch you’re right 😭
I didn’t play attention to the whole thing so I only saw him lose

[@jackour8167]

Canonically speaking, Demi-fiend is on the stronger end of the Megaten protagonists. It's insane.

[@Hello_There57]

Didn't play smt 5 but I heard that demi fiend is a dlc boss and in this dlc you fight the fiends from nocturne who were already killed by demi fiend
So how come the fiends are still kicking ?

[@ils4844]

Death is an unavoidable constant in life, can't get rid of it. You could ask the same of YHVH and plethoras of other demons in the series really too. Overall though if you need a massive end all answer is that generally in megaten everything is cyclic and neverending, what goes away will eventually come back no matter what in most cases.

[@Hello_There57]

@ils4844 but how did they get back to life and get their menorahs?
Doesn't this suggest that this dlc content might not be canon ?
It's not like they made a lore accurate demi fiend anyways

[@ils4844]

@@Hello_There57 I don't really remember the fiends life force being tied to their menorah at all. They were just trinkets lucifer owned that he wanted demi fiend to collect to prove himself. The fiends are enlisted soldiers by lucifer too, if it wasnt time that brought them back it was either lucifer himself or one of his other ranking officers from the goeita or smth. Anyways the DLC quest is now base game content anyways, so there's no getting around "oh well it's an extra buyable thing so we can just ignore it!" Especially with the base game being delisted from the switches eshop. Atlus actively doesn't want you to think of V in the context of its base game release anymore by the looks of it.
The fiends also appear in IV/IVA as well and they also have nothing to do with menorahs there either. They've also appeared pre-Nocturne too, albeit not all of them and only a few ones that predate nocturne like matador and daisoujou were in older games.
Also not sure what you mean by lore accurate demi fiend?

[@Hello_There57]

@@ils4844 I didn't say their existence is tied to the menorah I said how did they get them back

[@ils4844]

@@Hello_There57 Ah misread, kinda tired but yeah like I said Lucifer owns the things. He probably just gave them back, I know somewhere it mentions the sidequest is about Lucifer testing V's protag much like Demifiend was being tested. The fine print according to the wiki says the fiends were also gathered across time and space this time around? Odd specification but I vaguely remember the cutscene in chiyoda where they stated that.