Battle of the Twins - Daytona 1985 - Harley Davidson vs Ducati
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ต.ค. 2024
- This is a great BOTT race between Gene Church and Marco Lucchinelli at Daytona in 1985. Church was riding the Harley Davidson XR1000 nicknamed Lucifer's Hammer.
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My husband, Gene Church, is talked alot about being such a great rider. We have been married for 15 years so I did not know him at this time. But it sure is nice to see and watch how good he was. Now that hes flat tracking again, I love going to watch him race this. I only wish we could have a sponser to help out with some of the gas and entries so that we could go to more of them. I love to see his face light up when he gets to go to the races. Hes happy to be back on the track.
Ms. Church, he's not just a great rider, but an immortal icon in the history of motorcycle racing. When I got to Daytona that year, I could hardly believe that Harley-Davidson was going to be road racing, and then to see your husband out there with Lucifer's Hammer ... and THEN to have him WIN THE RACE ... that's an experience I will never forget for as long as I live! I I know his background was in dirt track, and I'm thrilled to hear you say that he his still racing. I hope he stays safe and competitive ... maybe I'll get to see both of you at Syracuse next year. God bless you!!! :)
Alan W I can second that opinion. Gene was incredible! I was there as well to see the 200 but absolutely enjoyed this race. Barry Sheene'ssister-in-law Susan was my girlfriend at the time and We all went together whilst Barry was doing commentary for the BBC.
ALittleAintEnough
I could watch this 10 times a day and I will still have goosebumps... He is AMAZING!!!!!
Alan W Thank you so much for the words you said. This gives me even more reasons to want him to go farther than he has. He's been beat up and suffers everyday... But I don't think that he would change a thing.
If you want to ever talk with him, he would REALLY BE FLATTERED.
704-253-3241...
The "Cagiva" was an NCR-built 750F1 Pantah; displaced 804cc. Made a bit less peak power than Church's XR1000-based bike, but weighed almost 50lb less, and "Lucky" Luccinelli was 135lb soaking wet! Surprising that big ol' Gene could hold him off! Great video! Thanks to whomever posted this! Great to see Tunstall Jr. in action too! Anyone for Dr. John Wittner's Guzzi?
Still waiting to race...Flat Track. He has been so sick to the point that we thought we my loose another great rider in 2015. He has pulled through with all of your thoughts and prayers coming in. I, we want to thank everyone for your help and support. You have made a difference in his recovery as well as the doctors and the grace of God. Thank you very much. He was able to race last weekend April 16, 2016 at Providence, Va. and after a year and half of being so sick and REALLY no preparation for the race, he came in 4th place in the 40 + class of 12 to 14 riders. I have to say that is pretty damn good after all he has gone through and still able to have a 4th place finish. The determination. the will, the drive and the desire to win is still within him. Finding a SPONSOR TO TRUST HIM, BELIEVE IN HIM, and most importantly... Stand with him... The passion has yet to be extinguished. So please ask any questions you may have, because supporting him...YOU CAN'T GO WRONG... He needs a chance, please be the one to expect this...
980-223-8324
704-682-0979.
He will make you proud!!!
this is Jesse O'Brien brother of Dick O' Brien. Churches bike is one of twins built in 1974. One was riden by mark belforth and other cal rayborn. Both bikes were 5 speed XR-750.s Dick bought both bikes. In 1982 Dick converted Mark's bike to 1000cc and ran it in BOTT rode by Jay springsteen. His doughter got Cal's bike and sold it for $175,000. In 1974 Dick sold it to telly's HD in statesville SC. It the 1000cc XR-1000 is one of a kind
Gene, you gave me the best comlement ever. You said to me 2 days later after our prime at Road Atlanta. I saw you on the YZF750 up on the curb throttle pinned and sideways. The next lap you let me brake pass on oner pass in 11 at rd atlanta. You Gene are a real pro.
Grande Lucky!!! with a 750 cc, led to victory for the first time against the American and Japanese bike of 1000 cc, the fabulous Ducati, from that moment the Italian Motorcycle Industry raised his head from a dark period. Thanks Lucky and the Castiglioni brothers, owners of Cagiva. and in those times of Ducati.
I want to thank everyone who has responded to Gene Church's video...
HE IS DESPERATELY NEEDING SOMEONE TO HELP HIM KEEP GOING FOR HIMSELF AND FOR DON TILLEY AND HIS MEMORY. GENE LEARNED A LOT FROM THIS MAN AND HE TRULY RESPECTS THIS MAN AND ALL THAT HE HAD LEARNED FROM DON TILLEY. SO IF ANYONE CAN HELP WITH ANYTHING AND I MEAN ANYTHING... IT WOULD VERY MUCH BE APPRECIATED. SO PASS THIS ALONG... AND PLEASE REMEMBER THAT GENE HAS IT GOOD FOR RACING. HE CAN DO THIS!!!;;
Regarding the engine size: that year Ducati used a 748cc engine i.e. a standard production capacity. In 1986 Ducati developed a new big bore (92mm) 750F1 (818cc) engine and that was the bike that Marco Lucchinelli won the BOTT that year.
I think for 1987 Ducati used the newly developed 851 desmoquattro engine.
This is an awesome video to run across! Some of my favorite racing of the 80's were the BOTT races. I saw Gene Church and Jimmy Adamo battle it out on many occasions. Jimmy was riding a Ducati and this added a european vs. american flavor to the races.The sound of the two bikes was different and you always knew which bike was coming, before seeing it, by the exhaust tone. Also nice to hear Dave Despain's commentary. Thanks for the posting!
This is great history. More like this please.
This is exactly why the 83-84 XR 1000 Sportster was so special. It's still H-D's fastest street bike
I've a book with lucifers hammer in it & it says its based on the XR750. It says its a ohv v-twin, 998cc ,4 speed with 104bhp weighs 286lbs & a top speed of 158mph.
@rigd49 - I'm pretty sure that Lucchinelli tried his best to win that race. The Harley was able to compete with the newer Ducati 750 because, contrary to what the announcer says, the Harley had a 1000cc motor. I believe that the Ducati was the standard-sized 750cc. Also, glad you like the video. ;)
In the discussions about this race they say that Gene Church is from South Carolina. He is actually from Turnersburg, N.C.
So, in 1985, when this race occurred, the Harley was a full 1000cc. Thanks for the clarification.
Great video
Would Tilley HD ever consider building a Harley based BOTT bike again? I have a very realistic formula in my head that would be very competitive with even the modern Ducatis. Once again people would be able to say "That old Harley is strong Dale"
The Harley was truley a XR-750 of 1972 built for Mark Belsford and My brother Dick OBrien bought it and Cal's bike. They were both 5 speeds. In 1983 Dick converted it to a 1000 cc. Dick retired from H-D at end of 1983 and sold it to Tilley H-D's.Cal's bike stayed a 750 and sold for $175,000 by Pat O'Brien
This race is 1985? very old I can not believe
wish my buell s1 went that well
FOUR LEGENDS: gENE, mARCO, lUCIFER AND dUCATI!
looks like the XRTT-750 the VR1000 didn't come out until 1994
lucifer's hammer, what a name for a bike it looks mean aswell
The reallly sad thing surrounding this wonderful video is that Harley Davidson did so little to make the XR1000 into the motorcycle it could have been - ad not ":just another Sportster". It's a crime. You really had to find the right guy/dealer to get the XR to run properly, but when it did it's amazing (I am an owner of one). I call it my "bad girlfriend" bike; when it's right, wow!; when it isn't, ah Jesus! Really?
The Cagiva engineers must have faced the firing squad, most dedicated manufacturer of anything...
@IntrepidVids @ 5:03 announcer said 750 Harley Davidson
Yep, announcer's say a lot of things that aren't true....
watching that harley it looks like its quicker than what my book says.
Not bad, Harley winning against ohc short stroke Ducati and Cagiva bikes.
@IntrepidVids - Harley won the previous year with 750cc
HD !!!!!!
If harley had stuck it out and stayed in the game to get some wins...
Oh yeah, Harley and American know how win again. When anyone starts telling me Harley's are slow, old, heavy I just point 'em to this video and it shuts 'em right up
They haven't raced super bikes since 2001 and the engine they used was initially developed by Roush. Harley withdrew because their development time was such that any bike they made was already obsolete (old and slow)
They haven't won since 1985..
This video was from (as of your post) 32 years ago. Over three decades. Gene Church had one helluva time winning against a 500GP World champion who decided, on that morning, to run the twins race. Motorcycle racing has changed a little bit since then. Daytona is NOT a good road racing track. It's a "murican" horsepower track of which Harley's, antiquated, air cooled, v-twin was just barely able to stay in front (don't forget Luchinelli started dead last and worked his way up to second). The Daytona motorcycle race is just a NASCAR oval with a few kinks. When was the last time you saw a VR1000 at Laguna Seca? Or Road America? What about COTA? Assen? Harley's are old tech, slow, morbidly obese and couldn't race their way out of a wet paper bag with a one lap lead. Hell, Harley can't even win in flat track anymore because Indian's FTR has been kicking the shit out them. Let's not forget the "harleys" that are being made in India. How "American" is that? Racing and Harley-Davidson parted ways decades ago and Harley will never, ever be in road racing again.
Why do you not mention the dominance Kenny Roberts, "Fast" Freddy Spencer, "Steady" Eddie Lawson, Wayne Rainey, Kevin Schwantz (all Americans) had on the 500cc Grand Prix class? Didn't see any of them on Harleys. Hell, "Fast" Freddie Spencer won the 250cc AND 500cc world titles in the same year. They've all raced at Daytona. They've all won. None of them were on Harleys. You may want to put down Easy Rider and pick up an issue, or two, of Cycle World.
Harley is no.1..then now and always
In the past Harley could built motorcycles. And now...💩
The Cagiva Lucchinelli rode was what, 500cc's? And "Lucifer's Hammer" was in 1000cc guise at this point, yeah? It's a ridiculous comparison. Ever since Honda put the same power as Harley's "Big Twin" through a 736cc mill, it's been obvious - You could say a double-displacement engine running at half the speed is somehow "the same thing" and I suppose there's something "fair" in all that - except for the WEIGHT penalty you'll always have to pay, due to the bigger engine's pistons & rods & well - everything really! And then you get into the whole V-twin vs four-cylinder thing and you'll need huge FLYWHEELS to keep the vibration from tearing itself apart, breaking traction with the road, etc etc. So too with the PUSH-ROD engines - they'll always have more mass in reciprocating parts ie greater LOSSES - Sure, the Triumph TRITON triples were able to stay somewhat competitive in 900cc guise up through the late '70s, but only by employing means which stretched the definitions of reliability! If contemporary Japanese machines had thrown the same degree of caution to the wind, they'd have made the Tritons look like tricycles. The BEST designs used the GEAR-DRIVEN DOHC-4 top end, though the MV Agusta engines stuck with the two-valve-per-cylinder design through to the end of their air-cooled run, when "contemporary" DOHC-4 Honda had four valves per cylinder & so naturally breathed inherently better - Honda didn't employ the gear-driven cams until the V-four series however, with later versions of the VF1000R now THAT was a proper engine, though Yamaha took things in another direction altogether with their FIVE-VALVE combustion chambers on the GENESIS line with their FZR750 racers - I suppose the EARLY incarnation of the Honda VF design would have to have been the CZECHOSLOVAKIAN "CZ TYPE 860" now THAT was a truly futuristic design! Czechoslovakia was the lynch-pin which enabled the Germans to maintain a technological & engineering/manufacturing edge throughout WWII - their motorcycle industry was world class and speaking of the motorcycle industry in terms of America vs Japan vs Britain vs Italy is only a result of the CZECH industry bowing out of the show just that much earlier than the rest! Truly though - you wanna talk about a bike which is both VINTAGE and at the same time, an advanced mid-'80s era Superbike level of technical & engineering prowess - The CZ TYPE 860 has gotta be the high water mark for being ahead of absolutely everybody else. If only they'd had the factory backing let alone the sponsorship which Western racing teams enjoyed, we'd have forgotten such names as Mike Hailwood or Giacomo Agostini by now, and would remember the likes of BOHUMIL STASA instead! THAT'S the kinda vintage bike which deserves the attention of all these replica builders - At least PERSONALLY, I'd rather have one than an EGLI VINCENT or some such......
@@andersd8956 Yeah, well.... that Czech machine was a fourcylinder DOHC... 2-strokes don't have camshafts, now do they?
@@andersd8956 And still they managed to finish 2nd behind Jarno Saariinen, who rode a 2-stroke... With basically zero testing possibilities AND zero training...
SoyBoySigh, the Cagiva we see Lucchinelli racing here is a four-stroke 750cc v-twin with desmodromic valvetrain. The Cagiva he'll race in GPs that season are 500cc two-strokes. Same brand, but entirely different machines.
Make Harley Great Again!
Seriously, The bagger race is cool and all, but harley needs a good ducati killing sport bike again.
The only way Harley would kill Ducati is if it tripped and fell on top of it.